Vibe Coding is BS w/ Charlie Meyer

24:07Lovable is another, for listeners, it's another AI coding platform, sold to survive coding thing. and it's all it's 50 people being like i've spent 300 and then like 10 people just lying people like i just reached 12 000 mri monthly recurring revenue uh it's all good for me and everyone being like can i see it and they never respond and then there's the there's the people who are like looking for a replet developer yeah and it's like so you're looking for someone that can write software because right and build software interesting like a software developer one I don't know where to find one. It's almost like there are like hundreds of thousands, millions of people trying to do that.

24:46But yeah, we don't need them. We can just talk into the thing and turn your app into reality. Except it's just, it is really crazy how much Vibe Coding has proliferated considering how fucking, it's nothing. Well, so if you need a prototype, so if this whole thing boils down to If the expectations were real, if it was like, turn your sentence into a prototype of an application in minutes. Okay. Yeah, like an MVP. Not even a while MVP needs to work. Well, okay. Sorry, I thought you were saying hypothetical world where it works. Sorry. Well, no. In a hypothetical world and where it does what it does today, you can get like a mock-up.

25:32if it said build a semi-functional wireframe mock-up of your application that you could show to kind of validate your idea to your friends in minutes for$30 or however much your credits end up being that's fine but does that happen doesn't it you could kind of do that if you're lucky if you roll the dice that's the thing it's always if you're lucky there's enough asterisks on this it's just insane that it's got this far because i've read a lot of vibe coding articles and if you read like kevin roos of course and the times and people like that you read these articles and you think wow you can just do this you can just go and do this this is the future is today but it's not really not really the case at all but i think that the the thing that's so like pernicious about it is that it's so easy to just say skill issue yeah you just you just two words you're prompting it wrong you're prompting it wrong david gerard david gerard thing but no it's yeah Yeah, you're prompting it wrong.

26:27You're prompting it wrong. And there's no real way to disprove that because can we go back in time? And like, because it's all this probabilistic stuff. And so I have a post that I've put up and it's code doesn't happen to you. That's my thing. Go on. So it's my, because I taught programming for a while. And so if you're teaching a new programmer, sometimes if they've kind of gotten unlucky and they have a bad attitude, and it's not their fault, but they might think like coding is really mysterious and it's really weird. Right. And I type code in and I press run and it doesn't always do what I want.

27:01And so I'm just going to like mess around. Right. And like vibe coding is like a productionized version of code happens to you. It's like you press button, code pops out, it does mysterious thing. And then like, you know, so it's like that idea which was the wrong way to program. But like that's the way we're doing it. Like and we're going to sell it to you. And what is the right way though? The right way would be a computer is like you operate a computer, you turn it on, you open the coding software that you're going to use, whether it's an online software, like my wonderful software, or something like VS Code, like something for professionals, whatever.

27:34And you type in code and you run it. And then the computer executes it, runs the code according to the programming language. The code is instructions. The code is instructions. And the code happens deterministically. And maybe if you're developing a game, maybe there's some random elements to the software that you're developing. But there's no randomness. The randomness is under your control. Yeah. So it's true. It's the difference between treating it as this mystic force that you pull together versus instructions. It's instructions. And so, like, if you're a really good programmer, and maybe you're, whatever, maybe you use AI to save you some typing and you still have that good attitude.

28:08Whatever. Like, you can use it to save typing. That's fine. I mean, that's the only real, like, that feels like the only consistent thing is just filling in blanks that you know you could yourself. Like, it feels in, it's autocorrect. And I'm not going to. Which may be useful. I'm not going to lie. Like, I use it. Yeah. But I used to have a paid GPT account, but I don't trust it to do – like the models – and this is one of the things that I brought up in my post is that the models aren't better now, right? They're not better? Well, GPT-3 was okay, and GPT-4 was much better. And then GPT-5 is trash.

28:42I mean, relatively speaking. Maybe it's a little bit better, and maybe it costs OpenAI more, which is a big development, which is great for them, and whatever. It's bad to cost them less, but it costs more. It costs more. So stop getting better. So there was a time where I was like, I'm going to buy into this. I'm an early adopter. I'm kind of a booster. Like I was cured by going to wheresyoured.at.com. Yes, there we are. Is it.com? It's just wheresyoured.at. Oh, wheresyoured.at.com. Okay. Well, wheresyoured.at cured me a little bit of this because I'm like, and I've just had some situations where it's just failed me so poorly.

29:16Like there was a confluence of events this summer where I was just like, no. What happened? I'm done with this. uh first of all i got a strong recommendation from uh gpt to buy a software called descript which is like uh editing cost editing so because i i have i have a youtube channel and i want to like i'd say a lot of ums and ahs and maybe i'm saying some ums and ahs right now whatever who cares yeah and but i i'm like okay i'm gonna make this youtube channel i want the production quality to be decent if there's a shortcut for me seems like ai might be able to do this so So I'm like, to GPT, I'm like, what is good AI, get rid of ums and ahs software?

29:53Sure. It's just Descript. Kind of like a Google search. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, you know, whatever. It's an okay Google search. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. And so it said, you got to use Descript. And I was like, cool. And so I put in my credit card, 20 bucks or 30 bucks or whatever it was. Just, I put it in a recording and just completely mangled it. Yep. And it's just like, the audio was unusable. Yeah. It was off by an eighth of a second off my voice. And it's just like, there's no way, I have no recourse. Yeah. And I'm not an audio engineer. And so I just, okay. Like I vibe edited my video and it just ruined it.

30:23It's almost like every promise they make is it's going to automate everything. It's like, ah, not really. As long as you know what you're doing. But this was like a meta level thing where the AI recommended me other AI that also screwed me over. And so I'm like, okay, this is like, because I was using it a search, right? Yeah. And so, but it failed me a search because it's just emphatically. and then you look because then i was like well what's wrong am i is it a skill issue am i stupid and so i look and reddit is just filled with like this is the worst software this is the worst i use the script very briefly and all i wanted to do was take a bit of audio and turn it into a video with the text happening that's the way you read their marketing material you would look at it and think it would take two seconds took me about 45 minutes and it was just by the end I'm like, I don't even want to fucking die.

31:12I'm so angry because it's like, this should be a button press. The whole point of AI bullshit is meant it should be a button press. And it never is. But wait, well, there are other events though. Well, so there's that. And so there's that. And then it's like, so I'm also, so I'm a web developer. Right. And so I'm not very good. I can't program mobile apps. That's a thing that I can't do. Don't know how. I'm also not a very good like infrastructure systems programmer, whatever. That's, you know, cloud stuff, whatever. I'm not great at that. But that is an aspect of my job that I have to do. Our website requires some infrastructure, difficult stuff.

31:46Over the years, I've actually gotten quite a bit better at that. And so that used to be a use case for me for GPT was like, oh, I'll ask it some infrastructure related questions. I'm like, I know how to code. I can put the puzzle together. And this is actually going to save me a little bit of time. But I have outpaced GPT's ability in infrastructure development. So it's like, OK, well, I'm doing this project and it's not helping. It's just wasting my time. OK, no need for that. The descript thing is BS. And then I learned from EdZitron that this stuff is horrendously expensive. So it's like, if this was just regular software as a service and it cost pennies to operate and, you know, it was like kind of helpful, whatever.

32:22Yeah, be inoffensive. It would be like, it's fine, whatever. There's a company. They offered me this thing and it didn't work. And, you know, it happens. Yeah. But it's like in the context of a world in which this is the future, this is magic, in a click of a button, you get perfect audio out. If that's the promise, in the midst of all of this, and AI is recommending to it, this is like meta-leveled, like, idiot situation. And then it's disastrously expensive. Yeah. Like, what is the point of all of this? The point is we need to sell GPUs every day. And literally in the car here, they announced a seven-year,$38 billion deal between OpenAI and Amazon Web Services.

33:06It's just like, why? So that they can do Sora 2 more, so they can generate more copyright infringement? But have you in the past used these coding models a lot, or is it just kind of like on the side? I have. So even, like I will say, even like two weeks ago, I had a very discrete task where it was like, in this one situation, I want to do this one little thing. And I knew exactly what it was, and I was lazy. And so I said, write the code. And so I put in, and this is a joke comment, and people should do this more often. I put in, I pasted in the code, and I said, this code comes courtesy of ChatGPT.

33:44If you have any issues with this software, please contact OpenAI. That's what I wrote in my code. Nice, nice. And I showed it. And it worked. Great. Whatever. Okay. That's cool. It saved me 20 minutes. Then that's the thing. That's the whole AI bubble. But I'm not a paying subscriber anymore. Oh, that's even worse for them. Yeah, I know. No, I just, you know, because it's the stupidest model of theirs could have come up with that code because it was so easy. You know, it was finicky. It was annoying. There have been situations where I'm saying, you know, I say, oh, there's a bug in this code. I paste it in and it looks it over.

34:17And it saved me in aggregate tens of hours in the last three years. That's fine. It's like if it was regular SaaS, I'd be like, cool. Yeah. I think that's kind of part of why I canceled the subscription. Because if it was, you know, whatever, you need to value your time. If it was$20 a month and it saved me an hour a month, hey, you know. Yeah, it's like TripIt or Flighty. Like a little bit of software we pay for and it does a thingy. And it wasn't stealing from everyone and burning down. It's just, it only makes sense if it was cheap. And it's the literal opposite. it if this was like cheap like cheap cpu driven shit then fine sure but it's like i one day i think we're going to find out how expensive this is and it's going to scare the shit out of people but you know what that that actually makes me want to move to a specific post you made your scaling laws post let's talk about this so you were a booster at one point you read the stuff sure but you wrote a very eloquent piece about the scaling laws about how and i've tried to work this into my work, but it's, we can have, I don't know if I'd call it empathy, but some understanding of how we got here with the AI bubble.

35:24Because when GPT-4 came out, it does seem like tech people had a reason to be excited. I was so excited. What was exciting? It was awesome. You talked to it and it was just like this, I would ask it coding problems that I found. So I was still a teacher at the time. And I was like, oh man, like I have the AP computer science exam coming up and I need to like come up with practice problems. And I was like, generate a set of 30 practice problems. And I obviously read them over and I did my due diligence and I, you know, I tried to, I did a good job putting them together, but it's like, these are decent.

35:56These are decent practice problems. And like, this is useful software. I did not understand how expensive it was, but there was, there's a, the number of things that would have to happen. I will also give you, so the listeners don't get mad. To be clear, GPT-4 was 2023. Yeah. We were very early in understanding. I mean, the environmental damage was there early. Sure. But they were also promising their fix. But it took a full year until June 2024 when it came out that OpenAI would burn$5 billion. So, like, early on, we didn't really know the costs either. And I'm sure someone will find a fucking link.

36:31Anyway, keep going. Well, so I was pumped up because I saw GPT-3 was... You know, I'm a tech person. And so I remember seeing early demos of GPT-3. and it was like interesting novelty. It would say stupid things and it was kind of cool. It could even generate sentences. That was awesome. 3.5 came out and GPT, whatever, chat GPT, it's like, oh, this is pretty cool. I can use it as a search thing and it says that I'm good, which I like when people say I'm good. Do you like when people say you're good, Ed? It doesn't happen very much, but I think, you know what? I'll be honest. There's something, I think, mentally about me where all of the anthropomorphization pisses me, not even pisses me off.

37:10I'm just like, okay, shut up, shut up, shut up. I think I was bullied too much as a kid that like compliments don't work on me anymore. I do want to write a thing at some point about how if it wasn't chat GPT, if it was like box, get text. Yeah. And there was no anthropomorphization. If it was just like, this is a thing that can generate usable or interesting or like code for you, but there's no chat element to it. That would actually make it a lot better to me. Like by the anthropomorphization of like, oh, you're talking to a person that really makes me mad. Yes. And also I find every time it goes, you got it.

37:42You got it. Shut up, shut up. So in one of these NFL ads, literally, I don't know if they're like doing a nod to the haters or what, but they'd like take, we're going, we're going a couple levels. I'll make sure the link is in the. Yeah. No, there's like four of them. Hopefully there aren't. But it's like a guy doing, he's, he's trying to do a pull-ups and it's like, here's your pull-up plan. Like you need to do one pull-up and then you should do two pull-ups and then you should do four or five pull-ups. and like eventually you will be able to do several pull-ups and then at the end it's like you got this okay if so the plan is you do more pull-ups over time you could probably just work that out by doing doing pull-ups or texting a mate i see but nobody said you got this but yeah exactly actually no my my friend mac when i text him about pull-ups he he says much he's like you got this i think he may have literally it's just that's the commercial that's the commercial that's commercial but it's yeah commercial people watching the nfo and they're like oh shit why should i use chat gpt oh it's going to tell me a pull-up plan where i increase from one to several one to several you got this you got this i mean i didn't pause i mean maybe i did not pause the commercial but i it could it could have said some really interesting stuff in the middle i don't know but the bullet because it has to have a bullet to the list i i am pretty sure and i might be lying and so whatever you know send me some hate mail but like i'm pretty sure it said like do a couple wait a week you know drink a protein shake and like you know do a couple more it's just google search except it makes up the results that's all there's three fucking years so i have a i have a new idea which is that it's yahoo answers but the person has a lobotomy and was like it just did cocaine that's yahoo answers yahoo answers that's just yahoo or quora but it's like but it's like light speed Yeah, like the fastest.

39:30Well, Quora now is GPT. Okay. Because Adam D 'Angelo is on the board of OpenAI. Sweet. So it's just got GPT answers and GPT questions now. So cool.

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42:16Yeah. If you could just do that, I'll pay you 20 bucks a month. Um, no, but so, so there was an idea that if you increase the size of the models, I'm not an AI, I'm not an AI scientist. And so in this post, I said, I'm not an AI expert or an economist, but like you look at this chart, this chart that they had, and you can like the thing, and I actually think I cited my sources, the original like paper basically about the scaling laws, they have this chart that is incredible it is like make model 10 times bigger get the nice jump in performance make model 10 times bigger get nice jump in performance and then the idea is like okay well if we just keep making it 10 times bigger we will get like who knows how good they can get yeah and it kind of and it did work like and it was working for a minute that's how they went to the best of my knowledge that's how they went from 3.5 to 4 i mean there's a number of they have smart people over there yeah like i mean we can be honest that like they're doing clever stuff smart is also a very subjective.

43:11These are people who are experts in mathematics. Yeah, they're doing hard, real math and they're getting results. The fact that it can do what it does is incredible. Yeah, it's kind of crazy that they can do it if that was all they were saying. If that was all they were saying, if they were just like, we did research and we've created this incredible piece of technology that feels almost alien at this point. I mean, or at the point when we discovered it. Now it feels like, you know, just we take it for granted that it's kind of this trash thing. But like at the moment when it was released, it was like, oh my gosh like this is actually crazy yeah um and and the idea was we make it 10 times bigger and we will get a similar jump in performance and that is gpt 4.5 which is like a footnote in history oh that was that that was released and and sam altman was just like uh yeah well he made big model it was the best announcement ever i'm actually gonna put but from what i remember miss miss clammy sammy was like yeah you know it's i'm just gonna do it from memory i remember it's it was like yeah good news it's really good to for writing bad news it's really compute intensive and everyone's like yay and and in the announcement i i did quote this in the post because i i don't want to make stuff up and like whatever but they literally said with each 10x with each order of magnitude you know 10x increase in model size we will get an improvement in performance yes but like where's the like where's the big improvement right it's gone i don't i think that was them i think that was the moment i don't know what day they announced 4.5 but like i think every some in 20 yeah that was the that was game over yeah and then they did the reasoning stuff and the reasoning stuff was the reasoning thing was september 2024 and i my favorite thing about that was reading all the tech press writing about it and being like can any of you tell me what this does can any of you tell me why this matters to this day and i'm by the way i'm not actually it took a minute for me to work out what the fuck and it's just a hat on a hat thing it's like instead of spitting out an output, it goes, what would the output be?

45:07Oh, I will go through it and choose these steps, which is, it's test time compute and it's math. And I could have had a moment of reflection when the reasoning models came out. Because I was like, okay. It was still the height of the fever, though. I know. So I asked it a hard question. So I did a math degree and a computer science degree. So I was like, take this topic from sophomore year abstract algebra and do this visualization. visualization of the thing. Right. And I took one of the early reasoning models, whichever one it was. Like 01, I think. 01, sure. Because it's like, you have a PhD level thing in the pocket.

45:41Okay. So PhD level thing should be able to take a sophomore math, sophomore and college math concept and visualize it. Yeah. You should be able to do that. And then it didn't. Oh. And then I kind of just didn't, I was kind of just like, oh, I guess I, hmm. And then I just didn't think about it. And then I just kept on kind of hoping that something exciting would happen. Yeah. And I can, a bit of empathy here. I get if you're, and at that time, so it was September, 2024, a month later, they'd raised $6.6 billion to get a credit facility of$4 billion. Like they, it looked like open AI was going places unless you're like me and you've read every single possible financial thing you can get hand on and you've obsessed over the numbers.

46:25but i can get why someone who was stick within the booster ring might not immediately be like fuck because yeah i don't know people hadn't built things of reasoning and it did actually take a few months for people to work out products with reasoning yeah i mean and whatever i mean i don't know what the improvements were and they improved on the benchmarks that's fine it's kind of like and and i'm sure that the coding results are marginally better and that's the thing though marginally yeah it's always margin but now it's marginally but that's the thing three to four was sick. Huge jump. That was sick.

46:57That was not marginal. If you had, if you had, if your lights were on, if you were paying attention and you typed a thing into three and you typed a thing into four, you should be impressed. Oh, I, I remember the jump. I wasn't doing better off alone at the time. Didn't do that until February, 2024, but I remember being like, oh, that's good. But I remember just being like, okay, now what? I was, I was, it was like, wow, we made a computer do this and this cool. Okay. Now what? Yeah. And so like, I was vaguely aware of the, of the line chart that i mentioned in that post and so i was like oh like all they have to do it was like it is a freight train towards like actual really cool thing because it's like just make it bigger and therefore if we just need to make it bigger then we do need more compute and the reasoning models were you finally got another way to throw compute because it's the training compute and more compute to generate an answer test time compute wow yeah so like that's that's where the the freight train is over.

47:48And I just, 4.5 came out, didn't really think about it that hard. They start doing the reasoning stuff and it's like, okay, well, they have marginal improvements and they say it did really good on a math Olympiad or whatever. And like, that's interesting. But then it's like another whole year goes by. And then GPT-5 comes out and like, what was that? It was nothing. It was so strange. And so that was the final. So when I'm talking about my confluence of events that cured me of my boosterism. Like I started reading your stuff about it being expensive. Yeah. But then I was like, this is interesting.

48:20I've started reading this guy Ed's posts. GPT-5 is coming out next week. I wonder if this guy is going to have an extraordinary amount of egg on his face. Yeah. Because this, like you might've been scared. I wasn't because I have the stone will of the Buddha, but it's, I was also just like, when it, when reasoning was coming up, going back to 2023, they did some real shit. The rumors around that qstar yeah it was like the reason sam altman got fired was they found a terrifying new ai they kind of like drummed up there were leaks about it there were leaks about levels of intelligence there was all of these big leaks there was really no leaking around gpt5 other than a wall street journal story towards the end of 2024 where it was like yeah it's costing a shit ton of money it isn't working very well like the leaks the reason i because the thing is i mean this this day if i am wrong about all this i don't think i am i will admit it i will explain why but gpt5 i wasn't particularly worried about because it did i could not fucking tell you what the what it was going to be like no one really if you go back to 2023 and you look up gpt5 stuff the shit that people are saying is insane there was someone saying it would be completely autonomous it would turn weapons systems against people there's bonkers shit but getting up to it yeah it was kind of a proving point but it was just another fucking model well and so and so that i you and i started exchanging emails because i whatever i i saw your podcast and i sent all my posts over and it was it was it was interesting talking to you and then i i when that when the announcement was going on i emailed you and you got a lot of emails coming through but i said ed ed ed ed ed ed ed they announced paywalled chat colors yes i go through it no no i remember this but go through this in And the enhancement of GPT-5.

50:03The biggest thing ever. They're like, for our paid subscribers, you can turn your chat yellow. Yeah. They still haven't released. They still haven't released that? I don't. Well, I'm not a paying subscriber. I've never seen a yellow. I'm paying for chat GPT+. See if you can turn it yellow. I'm going to see if I can do this live on air. Yellow or pink. Green might be an option. Can I change my window color? Well, the model's not going to. On GPT. Are you Googling? gpt no i'm gonna ask it because it's fucking insane if this does searching the web yes you can change they did well they did well can you though um on some platforms you can change the accent color god this fucking stinks the fact that you can't ask a product what it does well if you if you can't ask like i don't know what's a good but i mean if you can't ask if you can't type into a google doc in 2007 what does google docs do that's unsurprising but that's because Google Docs is a place to write words.

51:01This is meant to answer things. Well, I know. That's what I'm saying. But it's like they claim that it's this all-knowing, omniscient thing, and it cannot tell you how to turn. Shouldn't it have just done it for you? Yeah. Or like, give me the button. It should have said, Ed, great question. Would you like it to be blue, yellow, pink, or Charizard orange? But where was the button? That's what it should have done. And also, the idea that that was one of the announcements is very cool. I love the idea that it's the biggest moment ever and you can now make Chad GPT brown. It's insane. It's insane.

51:35I don't know if brown is one of the supportive colors. Probably not. You might need to wait for next year. Yeah. That relies on the compute, actually. The Oracle deal. Yeah. Unlocks brown. Unlocks brown. Oh, my God. It's so cool that we've built our entire economy on top of this as well. But the GPT-5 thing, it was such a weird moment because watching everyone try and be excited about it was really good. there was the whole theo white wait not theo wait and that's isn't the information theo um there's this guy now i'm gonna i really shouldn't have blanked i've mentioned him he did a whole thing about gpt5 i'm gonna look this up live on air this professional show um where he did a whole thing saying gpt5 was the most amazing thing ever and then oh and then walked it back and then had to be like yeah actually yes theo theo brown there we go theo brown he did the thing saying i'm scared of how good gpt5 is then a week later it's like actually it's not the same as when i used it which is craziest that that should have been a scandal like why was that the case but everyone just kind of moved on but i i don't know what we're meant to be excited about next okay gpt6 well yeah it's just but also what's that meant to the because gpt5 was this weird kind of like myth in the future it's like when we reach this everything will get better but now it's like we're going to get Claude Sonnet 5, I guess.

52:57Yeah, whatever. I mean, you're going to get the next one. But that's the thing is like, if it's just continued marginal improvement, what am I? Yeah. What are we doing? It doesn't make me, that does not make me excited. And yes, it can save software engineers typing time and whatever. I mean, if you know what you're doing, you can get a lot done, I guess. That's fine. If that's the way you like to work, if you like to type stuff in and wait on loading screens and get your code out and review it, that's a way to do programming. that's fine yeah and it's it's literally fine i'm actually like i sound super sarcastic but like that's literally fine no but that's literally fine would be if this was a 10 billion dollar industry if they were selling it as like the equivalent of virtualization or like some side thing to the greater cloud compute infrastructure not the entire future revenue engine because it isn't yeah that no i mean i and and so i you know i run a business and And I think that, so a thing that startup people say is they say like, you have product market fit, which is like, oh, your product is good.

53:56Yeah. If like one of the criteria is if it went away today, would your users like throw a fit? Yeah. Would you throw a fit if ChatGPT got uninstalled from your phone? You would not. But like, you know, would the general person be that upset? And I don't think they would. I think that there would be a contingent of people who'd be very upset. If you have a like parasocial, I don't know if that's the right word. If you're like in love with your GPT, then that would be like a death in your family. And that's very sad for you. Which would be horrible. And indeed they, but it's like, I've been saying this for a while.

54:27It's like, and I say it to boosters a lot. It's like, if this disappeared, would your life change? Would it really change that much? And like, well, I used it for baby names. I've used it for, it's like. You named your baby after that? No, I didn't. I'm just saying like, if you. If you got a baby name from chat GPT, that's. That's tough. Yeah. That's really bad. that the more that was said to me by a booster the more i think about it i'm like brother one day your child is gonna hear this because all they do is they sell a book called like the baby name book and it has like a list of names in it i don't fucking know read some books like just think about it yeah i'm gonna one of the most important choices the identity of a future human i'm gonna send it to incorrect google search yeah it's it's depressing but it's also quite funny because i I feel like this era has really revealed who just doesn't know anything about fucking it.

55:18The people who are just like will believe anything or will just believe that they are smart at something because a machine told them they are. Yeah. That they got this. You got this. You got this. So someone online posted, I can't wait for the day when there's an AI agent that'll tell me when my friend's birthdays are. Fuck. There's no other way to do that. There's no way to do that. I don't have. Like some kind of calendar? No. Oh, no, it's got to be a reminder. And so that's like, that's what's happening now is that in the like startup space or just people building technology, it's like, well, we're going to get or if you like watch the ads on the NFL or whatever, it's like you are going to agent is going to do the thing that software is supposed to do.

56:00Like software. So like I got sold at one point accounting software. Right. That was AI. Right. The AI is going to categorize your transactions. Sure. Can't do it. I bought I was at a conference and it was you know whatever May 20th May 21st May 22nd I go to Starbucks I go to pizza I go to thing they're all travel related expenses one is travel and then the Starbucks is client conversation that's what I decided client conversation and so I I had a meeting with this the founder of the thing and I was like dude like what are you what is it what is this what did they say well they were just like oh you know sometimes it makes mistakes we should get on that Fuck yeah.

56:40Thank you. That's my accountant. Yeah. My whole thing is, I know, I think with all of this AI coding stuff in the big tech realm, something's going to break. Something really, but someone's going to do something stupid. Yeah. Well, so back to Replit. I mean, I think that they, I kind of hope that they're, I don't know if I hope that they're first to go. I mean, whatever. They're nice people working there. So that's the unfortunate thing is there are nice people working at these companies. People with jobs, like it will involve people. Like I don't, I wouldn't want to ask for people to get laid off who are hardworking people.

57:15And some of them are like cool scientists who have studied hard and they're like nice people. And it's the grim part of all this is like, people are going to lose fucking jobs. I mean, it's the executives who, you know, obviously pissed me off for just lying through their teeth, right? I mean, those people deserve to, but you know, they're never actually going to have a bad outcome happen to them. Which is why we need to write things to put their name, because at some point there needs to be a record of this. Of course, yeah. So I'm going to wrap it there. Charlie, where can people find you? So I have a blog, blog.charliemeyer.co, which is like where kind of my writings go, but I'm also trying to set up a newsletter.

57:51So that's csmeyer.substack.com, and my name is spelled M-E-Y-E-R. Hell yeah. And I, of course, am Ed Zitron. You can find me on the internet at google.com. That's where I live. I will put all the links to Charlie's stuff, of course, in the episode notes, but it's good for you to hear it now. and yeah, should have a monologue coming up this week. I know I did an announcement where I said I was going to have a big story. That is on hold, not because anything went wrong, but because the scale of the information I got has changed dramatically. When I eventually talk about this, it'll be a lot of fun.

58:23Otherwise, catch you soon.

58:33Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matt Ossowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at matosowski.com. M-A-T-T-O-S-O-W-S-K-I.com. You can email me at ez at betteroffline.com or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and, of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat.wheresyoured.at to visit the Discord and go to r slash betteroffline to check out our Reddit.

59:31Thank you so much for listening.

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