Mark Cuban: AI Hype vs. Reality, OpenAI's Wasting $1 Trillion, Lebron vs. Jordan

22:05But now it's just so much faster, easier, more direct. It's just a better tool that you need to learn how to use.

22:13Big Technology Podcast Host:There's one more side to this, which is that the market has been really punishing software stocks because it's become that easy to build software. And I think one of the things investors have realized is that all this software that's being built is built to scale, but never perfectly suits people's needs. There's a lot of room to disrupt them with AI. Potentially, you can have a lot more custom software and they're calling it the SaaSpocalypse. Do you think that that sell-off is justified? Yes or no, depends on the company, right? So that's great because I'd love to know who is safe and who's going to be disrupted.

22:54It's, yeah, anyways, I'm going to go there.

22:56Big Technology Podcast Host:How about just the fundamentals of these type of companies? Yeah, no, what you've got to have is some unique IP that is not shared. Okay. So I'll give you an example of a company called DocuSign, right? All the things that we sign, you would think that's easy because there's other companies, Adobe and others who do all that but it's a global company and all the laws associated with signing a legal document are different from city to city to state to state to country to country and you have to know all those things so that's a unique differentiation that you don't want to be dependent on the AI having rights so that's an example um the pushback on that quickly is just that the AI agent will go and find the local regulations but you don't input it no but you've to go you got to know where to send it to go first and you what are you going to have it do um spider every single municipality municipality in every city in every state in every country it's just not it'll cost you more in tokens than it will in value right then you'll get value so i think if a company has ip that as part of their software and when i say ip not just okay our software is a little better, faster, cheaper, more, this is a database of things that you can't get anywhere else, that they're not making available to AI to be trained on.

24:17It's their classified information. Then I think those companies will be okay. If they're just sold by the seat, and it's just a standardized piece of software, they're in deep doo-doo. Yeah.

24:29Big Technology Podcast Host:When Anthropic, there was a rumor that Anthropic was going to release a legal plugin, The entire legal section of the software just went poof. But that does seem like though, maybe that's ill-advised because they do have proprietary information. Well, yes or no, because all those are coming from Pacer and other legal databases, right? Okay. Because I talked to a law firm because I was having the same type of conversation and I'm like, can we take all of your legal briefs and this and that and train from them? They're like, no, they're proprietary A, and B, they're specific to a client and we can't share them.

25:04And so, but that's for a law firm that's not for the legal software. Okay.

25:10Big Technology Podcast Host:Speaking of another area that may be disrupted, consulting is a field that people talk about often as things like implementation and doing business analysis. You can prompt that in one shot at probably. You mentioned that your daughter is going to work in consulting. Did you bless that? Yeah, of course. Yeah, because there's going to be a period of time where somebody's got to help all these companies figure out how to implement AI and not only implement it, but how to reformulate their businesses. Because how you do things in an AI universe where you're trying to be more productive, more profitable, more competitive, it's going to be completely different.

25:49The hardest challenge for those CEOs is, am I willing to blow up my business knowing that my stock price could collapse in the meantime, and then I have to build it up. And working for a consulting firm, you hopefully have a lot of proprietary information that will allow you to guide that CEO as they go through that process.

26:10Big Technology Podcast Host:Let's talk briefly about the business of AI. I mean, from someone in your perspective, looking at the amount of investment that's gone on to these AI companies must be fascinating. Open AI recently announced that they had raised$110 billion, which is, I think, 3x largest IPO ever. They're planning to spend more than a trillion dollars in infrastructure in the coming years. I'd love to hear your perspective, not on the spend, but on the return needed to make those numbers work. They'll never get it. Yeah, they're just shitting away that money. I mean, at scale, right? It's not that AI is not going to work, but look at Apple, right?

26:51They haven't spent next to anything, but they've got a foundation where they can just plug and play into their devices. but there's a lot of FUD being put out about the spending. We're gonna spend a trillion dollars because we need all this data center capacity. Well, the data center, the ability to process is gonna get faster, cheaper, right? And it's gonna happen faster and quicker than people expect. And so I think a lot of the numbers that they're throwing out there aren't gonna come to fruition, which is why I say they're full of shit. It's not going to happen. But those who have just gone all in, some of them are spending more cash than they have available.

27:33And I understand why. I just don't, I'm not convinced that for all of them, it's going to work. And the reason why is we don't know if the business of foundational models, the ChatGPT, Gemini's, Grok, Clyde, et cetera, is going to be like the streaming industry where there's one leader and a bunch of players that make money. Or some that make money at least or search where there's effectively one company And so they need to raise all the money go all in and spend everything they can Kiss all the rings they need to kiss around the world in hopes of being the one right. It sounds like Morpheus. I'm just waiting for Keanu Reeves to walk through the door But so it's going to be very difficult, but I don't think it's going to pay off the way they expect

28:22Big Technology Podcast Host:They're shitting away the money at scale It's hard to do, right? But if you don't go all in like that, you can't keep on raising money because as it zigs and zags and you don't know where it's all going to go, if you're not still raising money, you're in deeper trouble because you don't know if you're not the winner, then you've got problems. Let me make their case for the sake of argument. Right now, what we're seeing is a moment in the AI world where the training has gotten to the point where it's less general. You focus on certain capabilities. We know Anthropic has focused on code. OpenAI has focused on healthcare.

29:03Big Technology Podcast Host:And it's difficult to train up really well in those disciplines. And you see things like Anthropic leading in code for a while because they've gotten good at it. So that to me would suggest that there's gonna be multiple winners here. Potentially, but in a vertical, right, like healthcare, you've got open evidence. And open evidence is actually going out and buying intellectual property, ChatGPT is not. And what you're starting to see happen and will happen even more, if you own intellectual property, you're going to see fewer people applying for patents because the minute you apply for the patent, it's available to everybody, which means every model can train on it.

29:43And when I go and talk via Cost Plus Drugs, when I go talk to hospitals and research campuses and schools, I tell them, do not publish, sell. Because the minute you publish, even though it makes you feel better and you seem like you're a bigger dog in the community, all of a sudden, every model has been trained on it and you've given away your advantage. And so when it comes to verticals, I don't know necessarily that they're gonna be able to buy the IP they need going forward. Now, what Claude is doing with Anthropic in focusing on programming, I mean, that's not really a vertical per se, right?

30:23Because it can be used for everything. It's really process driven. And I think that's smart. But when I look at the other ones, you know, Gemini has an advantage because Google search is Gemini, right? And so now when you do a search, it comes back with an AI response and it can sell ads around it. I don't know what Meta is going to do. I don't know what OpenAI is going to do when it's all said and done because I don't think, you know, you can, I always call, like, healthcare for open AI is a feature. It's not a product. And it's a feature that, you know, open evidence has that others can add just by going, spending money on the IP.

31:03And then you've got the bigger problem. Like, when you think about all these foundational models today and for the next few years, they are built on text and pictures, not really video. They don't know what's happening in the real world. You know, like I mentioned the example about the two-year-old pushing the sippy cup off the high chair, like it doesn't understand that. You know, it's not, if you fed it all kinds of information, it's not going to be able to come up with E equals MC squared. And to do that, you have to understand physics. You have to understand the world. And so we're going from large language models, I think, to what's called a worldview approach, where it's built on, you know, understanding the physics of the world and being able to take video and understand it.

31:49I invested in one company that's putting up satellites that can look at different materials and tell you what the makeup of those, you know, natural materials are. Is it wood? Is it rock? Whatever is in there, like a spectrograph. and I think that's going to supersede a lot of what Claude and Grock etc are doing and so we haven't seen the best of AI in my opinion and it's going to just get crazier and crazier and crazier and so when you think about all these people spending all this money look if you're the best programming you know like Claude is and that's your niche great but I don't know what the niche of these other ones are do you no but I I don't think there's gonna I mean if you have

32:32Big Technology Podcast Host:three four winners maybe that works and maybe three any more than that it's gonna be difficult I mean it's like then you're then you're just a website yep you know you're just an app and you just spent a trillion dollars to be an app it's a lot of money let me ask most leaders know how work is supposed to happen but when it comes to how it actually gets done day-to-day across tools teams and handoffs they're mostly guessing that's exactly the problem scribe optimized was built to solve trusted by over 80 000 enterprises including nearly half of the fortune 500 it gives leaders a live view into how work is really happening across approved business apps without interviews manual process mapping or extra effort from the team and because it's continuously analyzing real workflow activity the insights stay current instead of going stale the moment a process changes you can see which workflows are happening where time is going and which tools are involved it automatically surfaces top issues explains why they're happening and even recommends ways to fix them with estimated time savings.

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35:46Big Technology Podcast Host:Let me ask you this. You're someone who gained national notoriety by being you know, somewhat brash and rebelling against the establishment. Fuck that. No way.

36:04Big Technology Podcast Host:Do you see some of yourself in the Sam Altman's and Dario Amade's in the world? Maybe a little bit in Dario, but not in Sam. Say more. I mean, you know, Dario now is trying to scare the shit out of everybody, right? But that's part of raising money. like when we had broadcast.com back in the day, I would say we're just going to replace cable and satellite and all that. And it didn't, you know, but I kept on saying it's going to be in a couple of years and here we are 30 years later and we've kind of gotten there. And so I think Dario is pushing forward with Claude. And I think to your point, their niche with programming and agents, I think is going to hold for them.

36:45And I think they understand they may have to moved to a worldview environment as well. Sam is all over the map, and I think that'll backfire on him. I just think, you know, they were buying up 40 % of this company's memory chips, right, and they just backed out of that. You can't do that. You know, at some point, people stopped trusting and stopped wanting to do business. You know, they just moved him to, from their safety committee, I think, to something else. I forget all the details. I think, you know, Sam's accomplished a bunch of amazing things, but I just don't see how either one of them communicating is beneficial for anything but raising money.

37:26Big Technology Podcast Host:So what would your advice to them be? They don't need my advice at all, right?

37:35It's so early. It's just changing so fast. You've just got to stay connected to as many people as possible. But I think you have to be more involved at lower levels as opposed to just programmers. I think, you know, Apple's got it right in some respect in that everybody with an iPhone, it's going to be plug and play to plug in whichever model you want. And they'll have the ability at some point just to swap those out for their own if they choose or just like they've done with search engines, just pay or be paid. But I think you want to be where kids are and showing schools how to use AI so that it's a democratizer for education and a tool for teachers to be able to, you know, bring out that light in every student's eyes.

38:27You know, right now when we teach, we teach by the teachers there, they create a syllabus, they've got the subject matter, and then we teach everybody the same way. And then we expect all the students to know the answers to the same questions. And teachers freak out, well, all you got to do is use AI. Well, the only reason teachers are getting it wrong is because they're asking the same questions of every student in the class, right? They're telling them to respond to it with an essay, and every student has to respond the same message. When in reality, when I talk to teachers, what I tell them is, you know, the hard part for you is to get that light in the kid's eyes to get them really excited about a subject matter.

39:08And with AI, you can personalize teaching to each individual student. You can say, okay, we're doing American history and we're learning about the Constitution. You know, little Billy in sixth grade or whatever is, maybe isn't as good a student, And so we're going to put together a project under AI that works at Billy's speed, reformulates the questions for Billy based off of his answers, and then keeps the teacher and parents in the loop so they can see where little Billy is. And hopefully you can even have the AI personalize it so that it's more interesting. You know, if they like learning more about Paul Revere than George Washington, right, you spend more time on Paul Revere to get them more interested.

39:55You can personalize any topic with AI. You can't do it with traditional teaching. And going back to your question about, you know, for the AI companies, I think by getting students and teachers excited about the capabilities and features of the AI that you're offering creates a foundation that they'll want to be comfortable with and they'll stick with those tools for a long, long time.

40:20Big Technology Podcast Host:Isn't it true that personalized tutoring to a student gets you like two standard deviations above the mean? I don't know. I don't know. It just makes sense to me. Someone knows? No, you're just laughing. Okay, it's true. From the front row. I'm pretty sure that's the numbers. And it's just been inaccessible to so many people because of the expense. But if you're able to scale that up, that could change things. Look, there's time, there's expense. And, you know, there's a difference between homework. Teacher said, I got to write an essay on da-da-da-da-da. I've got to memorize da-da-da-da-da. And going home and on your laptop or phone or whatever you have available to you, you know, having it presented to you with graphics and videos and in a manner that's fun that the AI will understand if you're engaged with it or not.

41:08And think about that. It's not hard for an AI to know if you're answering the questions. It's not hard to know if you're giving more engaged answers. It's not hard to know if you're asking a question, if the student's asking questions, right? And it's not hard to grade the test and grade the answers and then summarize it for the teacher and the parent. And then the parent can make suggestions based off of conversations, the teacher can. That's just so unique. And not only does it apply to teaching kids, It applies to teaching anybody anything. Like if you've ever used Notebook LM from Google, where you could take it and turn whatever you want, a training manual, into a podcast.

41:52I mean, it is insane, you know, doing a training podcast for, you know, how you want to keep the restrooms at the American Airlines Center clean. And it's a man and a woman. Yeah, we were just talking, we were just going through the training manual of how to keep the restrooms clean. this is really interesting the the tools that they use I mean whoever thought that this mop could work like this and they made it so you know because kids particular today don't want to read but if you put it in a podcast format particularly one that makes you crack up when you're talking about mops and you know how you're going to mix the solution to clean the floors it's just changed how we educate people and if you take advantage of that and learn from it and learn to apply it you will have an advantage as an entrepreneur, as a CEO, as a manager, as an employee, as a student, as a teacher, all across the board.

42:47If you don't and you're doing it the same old way, you get the same old shit back.

42:53Big Technology Podcast Host:Who does succeed then in this era? Whoever learns how to use the tools the best. You know, whoever realizes that the operative word, the key word in an AI world is iterate. As the tools change, you have to keep on iterating, iterating continuously, recognizing you're going to get smarter, your employees are getting smarter, your customers are getting smarter, agents will communicate, and they'll be smarter. So you have to be in a position. You know, as an entrepreneur, I know what it's like to, you know, have thresholds that we all try to hit. I got a half a million in sales. Yeah. I get a million and sales.

43:32Yeah. Making money. Yeah. Up to 10 employees. Yeah. You know, and then you start thinking, okay, I've got this company down. My customers like me, but in an AI universe, you have more so than now, you're going to have to continuously improve because anybody can come in and say, they're not improving. They don't understand this new tool. And so I'm going to go compete with them. You have to continuously iterate.

43:58Big Technology Podcast Host:I've heard from more than a few people that they believe that using these tools inside their companies effectively means they're training the AI to replace them. That has to be true in some cases. What do you think happens in the broader job picture here when this technology continues to ramp? There's going to be displacement. There's no question about it, but I'm not one of those people that says jobs will be optional, like Elon Musk said, or 50 % unemployment. No. There's things that if all you're doing is reformatting, you know, or you're answering a question, yes or no, then, you know, there's a good chance you're going to be replaced by AI.

44:39But if you're a critical thinker, there's always going to be a need for you. If you're a critical thinker and you understand how to use the tools so that you understand where best to use an agent, where best not to use an agent, where best to do, you know, vibe coding, where best not to, and you under, it's like I was telling my daughter, if you learn how to use these tools and you know how to think critically, you're curious so you're always learning, you're always gonna have a job. Because as I said, AI doesn't know the consequences of its action. You don't wanna be in a business where you just trust the AI and it's like, oh shit, what did it do?

45:19You know, you need somebody as the buffer to understand how, where, when, and why or why not to use it. And that's critical. And that's middle management in a lot of cases. And on top of that, you're going to have companies, like I said earlier, that have to completely reinvent themselves. And when you reinvent themselves, you're going to need people that understand how to make all these pieces work. And so, you know, I think there's going to be plenty of jobs. and if I'm coming out of school, my daughter already has a job, but if I'm 16 years old, if I was graduating today or if I was a 16-year-old looking for a job, I would learn everything there is to know about AI and I would go to small and medium-sized businesses and say, let me walk in the door and all those things that you know you need to do that are the bottom of your to-do list, let me show you how to use an agent to do those things because in doing so, you'll be more productive, more competitive, you'll make more money and I'll give you a perfect example.

46:17One of my Shark Tank companies is called rebelcheese.com. They sell vegan cheese and they ship it all over the world. And they, like a lot of companies that ship products in boxes, you know, for those of you who ship stuff in boxes, you know, there's different size boxes for UPS, DHL, whatever. And you start in one zone and there's a different price to ship to a different zone. And then you also probably know that they don't ever charge you the right price. Does that sound familiar? Yep. So what this company did, Rebel Cheese, was they wrote a little agent that took a picture of the box when it's getting ready to ship and determined the size, looked at the price list, took a picture of the invoice, compared them, and when they were different, created the credit request and are saving$50 ,000 a month, and it's all automated, they don't have to touch it.

47:10That's where the agents come in and come in handy. And you have to know how to implement that. And most small to medium-sized businesses don't understand that yet. And they don't have the resources to just, you know, allocate people. They don't have the drunk interns or the sober interns, you know, to just go do it. And anybody here who's an entrepreneur knows there's always 10 things that you say you're going to do on Saturday and never get to, right? always. And so that's what agents are good for. And so if I were graduating today, I'd be going to these small, medium-sized companies, charging them a hundred bucks an hour.

47:46And then because these AI systems, they kind of drift each time there's a new version, those agents might need to be modified. You have recurring income coming in all the time to go back and check and keep them up to date. There are so many kids that took one computer class, you know, Noah's some Python that are going to be able to go do these things, there's not going to be any shortage of jobs there. But if you try to work in a big company and become an entry-level software engineer or programmer, that's just not going to be there because the people in that big company, they're going to have training, they're going to have older people that are in the IT department that know they need to learn this stuff, and those entry-level jobs aren't going to be there.

48:30Big Technology Podcast Host:Don't worry. They're not hiring for those anymore. No, they're not. Yeah, they're not. Yeah. Yeah. Just to clarify, I was thinking that your advice was the young person should go in-house at a company. At a small company. But why wouldn't they then just start their own business and sell that as a service? Well, when I say go to small, medium-sized businesses, that's what I'm saying, right? Go to them and show them, just like the Rebel Cheese example, show them all the things that are too tedious, time-consuming, and you don't know if you'll get a return if you hire somebody to do it, that's a perfect thing to bring somebody in for a few hours, a few weeks, and have them define agents and allow the agents to do the work for you.

49:13And if you don't know what an agent is, you're gonna have to learn. And the best way to learn is go to chat, GPT or whatever, and just type in there, I'm new to all this AI stuff. What the hell is an agent? Can you teach me how to do it and how it would impact my business? And let me just tell you part two to that. If you as a CEO, manager, employee are afraid to have a heart-to-heart conversation with your AI, you're going to fall behind. And I'm not talking about your personal life. Is this the right guy for me? Should I date this girl? No. but what I'm saying is it's weird to start talking to your AI and then having a conversation and then thinking okay I need to have another one like I have my hooked up in my car and I'll be driving and talking to it and I'll catch myself this is strange but you've got to get over that hesitancy because like some of the answers like I gave you the patent thing they're good answers like you were like that shit is good and if you don't have if you don't do that if you don't allow yourself to feel comfortable with that it your your career your business life is going to be a

50:29Big Technology Podcast Host:lot more difficult if you speak with it a lot mark do you ever ask it can you tell me my deepest darkest secrets or psychoanalyze me i can be weird you've never given it that prompt Yeah, no. They're counting us down. A couple more minutes? Sure. Do you guys want a couple more minutes?

50:48Big Technology Podcast Host:All right. Good news. I have a lightning round. That's never good news for me. Would Jordan or LeBron win one-on-one? Jordan. Jordan. Yeah, no question.

51:06Big Technology Podcast Host:Could Kobe beat either of them? Yeah. I mean, they're all so good in any given game, one can beat the other. Indiana alum? Yep. All right. Who's yours? Is Fernando Mendoza going to be a top 10 quarterback in the NFL? Of course. Okay. Favorite candidate in 2028?

51:34Big Technology Podcast Host:They're saying Mark Cuban. Bart Simpson I don't know I thought we might get that answer he said Bart Simpson is there anyone you wouldn't vote for yeah I got a lot of buddies that no chance I would vote for no it's not 2028 yet look there's nothing I can say about politics that's going to change people's minds and so you know I'm in the healthcare business with cost plus drugs Republicans need low price drugs Democrats need low price drugs That's all I care about.

52:13Big Technology Podcast Host:That's a winning message. Should the NBA shorten games? Yes, to 40 minutes. Say more about that. Anybody here watching March Madness? Now, if you're a Duke fan, you were upset there weren't eight more minutes in their last game. But nobody's upset that it's 40 minutes. If you're into the WNBA, you're not upset that it's 40 minutes. If you watch Olympic basketball, you're not upset that it's 40 minutes. You know, high school basketball, you know, all college games. And so by cutting back to 40 minutes from 48, it's equivalent of shaving about 14 games off the season, which I think will help the players' bodies.

52:54And I think it would make the games better because, you know, we all kind of pitter-patter until the fourth quarter. and now the fourth quarter comes quicker and every possession impacts more. Plus there's more upsets because there's fewer possessions and every NBA team is still good. And so when team gets hot, you'll see more upsets. I just think it's better across the board for everybody involved. And the other thing is if you look at TV ratings or streaming ratings, what's the number one sport? Football. How many minutes of actual game time is there in a football game? 12, 15. If you look at ratings for sports, the less amount of game time, the actual playing game time, the higher the ratings.

53:47People need their chips and guac. And the NBA, I mean, if you look at hockey, hockey has the hardest time on TV. What happened with baseball ratings when they shortened the game? Straight up.

53:59Big Technology Podcast Host:Maybe they could take away all those timeouts at the end of the game. Well, I don't even mind the timeouts in a 40, because we did take away some of the timeouts, but if the game's only 40 minutes and there's just more action that counts, I think that changes the game. I had an idea that you could have an AI make a new rule every game. So one game, the three point is actually worth four points. One game, if you dunk, you're rejected. One game, you're just playing three periods, not four quarters. You tell me how that league goes and then I'll call you. I'm going to, I think you're on board here.

54:33Big Technology Podcast Host:Last one, easy one. How do you fix the NBA draft? I think, you know, shortening the games is one thing. See, people think it's about tanking. It has nothing, even the NBA is wrong in this. They think it's about tanking. It's not about tanking. It's how do you rebuild a team? And to rebuild a team, when you're bad, your payroll is lower. So you have more flexibility and trading picks. I think you make the game shorter I think you limit the number of picks even more so that a team can trade from like it's for seven years you limit it to not trade three years and you eliminate the you reduce the number of first round picks that a team can own at any one point in time because once you can't accumulate any more picks there's no reason to stay under the cap and you know if you can't stay under the cap you might as well try to get better so that's what I would do Love it.

55:26Big Technology Podcast Host:All right, I'm going to turn it over to Dwayne, and I just wanted to say thank you to all of you. You've been amazing. Thank you.

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