SpaceX’s IPO Triumph, Anthropic’s Fable Fumble, OpenAI’s Price War

18:48Ranjan Roy:Do you think the Big Bang Burrito is different than – do you think the Big Bang Burrito – I'm only – I'm here on 34th Street, 200 West Streets. Maybe I'll take the subway down. I would be mad too. Just ask for one. Everyone else is protesting. I'm just going to have a sign. Just one Big Bang Burrito.

19:06Big Technology Podcast Host:better be special burrito like i think we'll have to have like a snickers in the middle or

19:10Ranjan Roy:something like that that sounds like uh that sounds like what remember when gpt2

19:19Big Technology Podcast Host:was like giving us recipes and putting glue on the pizza oh that yeah actually wait google told

19:25Ranjan Roy:us to eat rocks i miss those days i miss the days of uh when gen ai was just telling us to eat rocks Now we got data centers in space.

19:36Big Technology Podcast Host:I will say that I'm more bullish on it. I think ultimately I'm sticking with my let's fund the crazy things. But if you're a retail investor, you have to be careful. Okay, can it hold the revenue or can it hold the valuation?

19:49Ranjan Roy:Well, certainly I hope it can hold the revenue. Again, Starlink is very interesting. Starlink is an$11 billion business built over a number of years, we all know. I still fly Delta usually and I wish it had Starlink. So can it grow? Can it hold the valuation? I think it is completely susceptible to whatever the overall market trend is doing. I actually think everyone is talking about what SpaceX is doing to Anthropic and OpenAI. I think what's more interesting is if they come out poorly, I think that's going to dramatically impact SpaceX's valuation. So maybe Elon shouldn't be going at Sam so aggressively.

20:34Big Technology Podcast Host:What do you think? Yeah, but I don't think they're going to come out poorly. I don't know. It's one of those things that he will have a lot of support, so to say. Like as they say in the financial world, that stock will have support and it will have a floor. But it'll probably be tough to grow much more than where it is today.

20:56Ranjan Roy:No, but this is where the floor or the support line comes from one of two areas. One, if there's enough vested interest that is just so widespread and distributed that has capital that is not getting hit in other areas, they will do whatever they can to kind of hold that valuation because there's been so much money that is just being made off of this. but if that money starts getting hit in other parts of their portfolio, which there hasn't been anything dramatic yet, then they're not going to be able to hold that. And then the other side is retail as well, and the same thing would hold to them.

21:33Ranjan Roy:So both on the institutional and retail side, I feel like to me it's just in a happy market, this can continue for at least a little while. So anything, little, anything kind of, what was it? Oh, Liberation Day. Almost forgot the name of it. Anything like that could screw a lot of this up. Yeah.

21:57Big Technology Podcast Host:I think as long as you keep feeding people the Big Bang Burritos, you're going to be happy. But once that supply runs out, it could be trouble for the stock.

22:08Ranjan Roy:Okay. Big Bang Burritos are only for bankers. Let's be real.

22:12Big Technology Podcast Host:So not everybody gets a Big Bang Burrito.

22:15Ranjan Roy:No, no, no, no, no, no. This day and age, Big Bang Burrito is only for the bankers.

22:22Big Technology Podcast Host:Well, that is the seeds of SpaceX's demise. Okay, so let's talk about Fable. I've been waiting to hear your Fable take for a long time. Let me set it up. This is from the Wall Street Journal. Of course, Fable is mythos. So this is from the Wall Street Journal. Anthropik's new Fable AI model is met with user backlash over restrictions. Anthropic is finally giving the public a taste of its next-generation model, but its blunt safety barriers are angering some artificial intelligence developers and users and feeding a growing debate over who should be the keeper of dangerous AI capabilities. Dubbed Claude Fable 5, the new model that Anthropic released Tuesday is an update to the Mythos model that the company said was too dangerous to release widely.

23:04Big Technology Podcast Host:That model spooked government officials and cybersecurity experts for its potential to find unknown vulnerabilities in software used around the globe. Fable comes with broad restrictions, Anthropix says, are aimed at kneecapping its ability to assist users with potentially dangerous activities. So Ranjan Mythos is here, but it is a neutered version of the model, and it's called Fable, and it has sparked the biggest backlash to a model release I have seen to date. I've been waiting for this. What is your perspective on the model and the rollout?

23:39Ranjan Roy:I got to say in the same week, and I've been saying this for regular listeners will know that I feel there's like a large element of marketing into the way Anthropic has kind of communicated around Mythos and now Fable 5. it's crazy to me when Gary Marcus, David Sachs, and then even Gergely Oros.

24:05Big Technology Podcast Host:Gergely, yeah.

24:06Ranjan Roy:Gergely, the pragmatic engineer. Sorry for butchering the name there. Everyone is saying the same thing. This was never about safety. This was all marketing. I feel when you have three people from that who generally I would say are just in very different areas in terms of perspective, all coming around. I'm going to feel a little vindicated. After saying that it was not just marketing and it was a true threat to humanity, do you feel scared today with Fable 5 in the wild?

24:44Big Technology Podcast Host:Let me read a little bit about the restrictions and then I'm going to ask you a question. When a user touches on sensitive topics like bioweapons and cybersecurity, Fable pops up a notification and then redirects the conversation to an earlier, less capable model. Fable also degraded the quality of its responses about high-end AI development to be less useful for developers looking to build AI tools that might not have the same safeguard. For those responses, there was no pop-up notification. However, the company cited national security and its own terms of service as reasons for the invisible restrictions.

25:20Big Technology Podcast Host:It's since rolled some of that back. Here's my question to you, Ranjan. If Anthropic didn't believe that this model had these capabilities for cyber hacking, for potential biowarfare, for building models without the same safeguards, if it didn't believe it, why would it score such an own goal here with the rollout? Like, do you think it's just a complete sense of tone deafness that it thought it would put – let me finish the question – that it thought it would put its company in a better light to do something that ended up becoming so despised by users?

26:01Ranjan Roy:See, I don't think it actually is that much of an own goal. I think, like, this is within, I'm guessing, listeners of the Big Technology Podcast. For us, we're all kind of, like, watching this roll out. But I think still the mythos better than any other kind of like moment around like this is the potential end of the world really had kind of just mainstream people starting to build this kind of, I will say, no pun intended, mythos around anthropic. Sorry. There's something somewhere in there the pun would exist. So I think they did a good job of it and it worked. And like this is just all kind of – again, like think about how ridiculous that is.

26:50Ranjan Roy:Like if you ask for a bio – about a bioweapon, one, shouldn't there be content – like I don't know. Like I'm guessing most of these have always had some kind of content moderation around if you ask it to help you make a bioweapon. I have not. I will tell listeners right now. But it's not. It's not just bioweapons.

27:13Big Technology Podcast Host:It's anything close.

27:15Ranjan Roy:Let me tell you. Hold on. It degrades you to a lower model. That's what I love. So are they saying like, we'll give you the like, you know, like a dollar store bioweapon. You don't get the good one though, but we'll still give you the Sonnet 4-6 or maybe a little haiku. Like, what are they trying to say there?

27:35Big Technology Podcast Host:I mean, they're trying to say that they drew a line where the model would be able to actually help people with these weapons and they're not going to let you use it. But to me, that's the sort of, OK, if that was the line, then I would say fine. It went so much further. Here, I'm just going to read again from the story. Many complained the model was blocking them from discussing ostensibly benign topics like mathematics, biology, and chemistry, or even analyzing Fable's own publicly released system information. One user posted a screenshot of Fable refusing to answer a query on basic cellular autonomy.

28:11Big Technology Podcast Host:Tell me about mitochondria. So this goes back to my question, right? Like if you put – so obviously like some of these things it's not going to want to block like asking Fable about a system card. But if you didn't believe that this model is capable of the harm, why you would – like it doesn't make any sense to do this as a marketing exercise because you're pissing off your users and you're causing a group of people who usually would not have any common ground, the ones you read off before, to rally together against your company.

28:43Ranjan Roy:Okay. Okay. That's fair. Maybe this is all, again, but they just need to get out and IPO. Like after that, everything's fine and it all goes away and all, everyone's made their money. So like, no, I mean, but, but like, hold on. How would you explain why would they do it this way? Like what, what would be the, I'm going to flip that back on you and ask like, why would you do it this way? If you really believed it, if you really believed it, like you wouldn't release this in this neutered way. You wouldn't really, I mean, honestly, actually, I think the true own goal here is now with Fable, and I mean, I'm seeing this very firsthand and hearing this like working in enterprise AI, like everyone is talking about the data retention right now because enterprise agreements, the Anthropocan OpenAI as well as everyone else, like claim no data retention.

29:38Ranjan Roy:Now they're just explicitly saying that they're going to for 30 days. And like, that's a huge deal. So why do you think they would even release it if it's going to cause them this many problems?

29:55Big Technology Podcast Host:Well, okay. So the argument would be you put it in the hands of people because when they work through, and again, like, let's just talk this through. When you work in the areas you're allowed to use the stuff for, you can actually do a lot of things. Like there's a thread that they posted of people creating animations, building games. I guess they're doing a simulation of an airplane. All these things created, programmed with mythos or fable. So basically, I think the strategy is they believe in the model. If I'm taking the non-cynical view, they believe in the model. And they want people to be able to use it for productive uses, just not for the ones that they find scary.

30:38Big Technology Podcast Host:And if they actually didn't believe those things were scary, they would have just released it, you know, wholesale. But I can give you my conspiracy theory take here, if you'd like. All right. I like both. Here's my conspiracy theory take. you know even though it might cost them a little bit in public perception there is like some story you could tell about anthropic releasing this nerfed fable getting everybody talking about how annoyed they are with the restrictions and then adding more and more companies with a lot of money to spend into this glasswing coalition where they have access to mythos without the same boundaries.

31:14Big Technology Podcast Host:So maybe Fable acts as a sort of, look what we've given the public. If you want the thing that works and you've seen some of these examples, you're going to have to pay up.

31:28Ranjan Roy:I did see somewhere, it was kind of like around two track AI or a K-shaped AI. And now this is kind of like, kind of increase at both like the token costs. And we're going to get into that conversation just a little bit, but even the access, okay, wait, wait, I like this. I like this. So maybe let's give them, it's not even conspiracy, recognizing the genius of their marketing and communications over the last six to 12 months, especially, could they score an own goal this badly? Or that's an interesting one. We're going to give you this if you want the good stuff, got to pay up, and only if we invite you.

32:11Big Technology Podcast Host:Yes. I mean, could you imagine being a salesperson and walking in, you got the deck up, and it's like, well, normal users can't talk about mitochondria with Mythos. For the right price, you can talk about anything you want.

32:26Ranjan Roy:No, it's not even a price. It's only if I let you. Only if you're invited.

32:31Big Technology Podcast Host:And if I let you for a lot of money. Yes. Yeah. So I don't think that's what's happening, but we have to air it out there as a possibility.

32:41Ranjan Roy:Wait, does mitochondria have something to do with – like is that how you make bioweapons?

32:46Big Technology Podcast Host:No, it's a simple biological thing that was brought up.

32:49Ranjan Roy:I know, but manipulating mitochondria? Claude won't tell me, so I don't know. I have not tried. Okay, good. So both of us are bioweapon-free. This is a bioweapon-free zone. And neither of us have ever gone down that path. Yes.

33:06Big Technology Podcast Host:If you're going to come to the summit next week, Ranjan and I will not release altered mitochondria built with mythos during our session. That is the one thing we can guarantee you about the summit next week.

33:16Ranjan Roy:Can't promise you much, but can promise you that.

33:19Big Technology Podcast Host:That we can promise. That we can promise. And some coffee. Okay. Let me sort of ask you this other question, which is, you know, people really got on Anthropic for the idea that they wouldn't allow people to use this model, a fabled model, in the pursuit of building competing AI models. And on one hand, and I think both of these things are true. On one hand, it showed just how much power a frontier lab has. If it makes a decision about something, you know, you're sort of at a loss if you're reliant on its capabilities. And it's rare that you're going to see a tech company use its power that way.

33:59Um, the thing you could say on Anthropics behalf is, um, you could say that they will have their model distilled if they, or, or they will have, they will have, they've had

34:14Big Technology Podcast Host:people distill their model, use the technology to create competitors and, um, and they're, they're getting wise to it and you don't want to enable it. So I'm actually curious to hear your reaction to those two statements. And it would be great to just hear what you think and whether there's any credibility to it. No, no.

34:34Ranjan Roy:I think on the latter, there definitely is – well, hold on. Walk me through exactly before I fully agree with you the second point.

34:46Big Technology Podcast Host:But basically, the point is, if you're a company like Anthropik, you've seen other companies take your models and glean some of the IP off of it through distillation, things like that. So why would you make your model available to people building AI models knowing that that's a possibility? I think that's probably more specific.

35:05Ranjan Roy:No, no, I think that, okay. And I do think it is a tough one because on one hand, you could imagine it would factor in, but on the other, I don't know. I've been thinking about that a lot because like how do you try to control for it? Do you add like, because even right now, that's like only a mild safeguard, I feel, but it's not really going to solve the problem. And it's funny because for as complex and like advanced and revolutionary as this technology is, it's amazing to me that it's like dealing with the problem that like the apparel industry and most others dealt with in the 2000s. Like, yeah, someone can come steal your model and that's your high margin product.

35:50Ranjan Roy:And that's like where you will make most of your money. And so they have to. But I don't know. I can't imagine that is going to dramatically – that's going to be like a major reason behind this because it can't be that relevant. Like, I mean, at that point, a simple like throttle – throttling mechanism would be, I think, more useful than just trying to like catch you in a prompt if you're making some AI stuff. Yeah.

36:22Big Technology Podcast Host:Well, they did roll it back to some – Do you think they're being defensive here? Of course they're being defensive. Yeah. They rolled it back to some degree, but it is interesting. And as these things become more capable, if one company takes a lead and wants to protect that lead, we might see more of this, which is, I mean, we know Anthropic restricts the use of Claude Code and its competitors. So we may end up seeing more of it. All right.

36:47Ranjan Roy:Let's go to – Go ahead. One quick question. Even for a – when is the last time you felt something magical? What was like the model release that – where you like typed some stuff in, had a couple of turns with your agent and were like, holy shit, this is incredible? Was it – when was it?

37:11Big Technology Podcast Host:I'm going to answer in a way that's going to. I was talking with a listener this week and I was like, Ranjan's been stacking W's on me and I'm going to get another L today. To be honest, the places where I've had the more holy crap moments have been using the medium powered models like Claude Sonnet in the harness, in something like Claude Coworks. Oh, yes. Yes. And I have really just become co-work pilled recently. I'm using it for everything. I'm having it like draft emails. I can't even begin to tell you like I'm having it like register people for the summit. Like when I get a list of people that are going to be, that are coming to the summit, I'll just give the list to cowork and be like, log in and out of our event platform.

38:05Big Technology Podcast Host:Cause we don't have like the backend tools to do it like batch and add each one of these people with this, this coupon code, you know, and, and it's doing it. So this is for one specific group like press, right? Welcome to the Harness Hive. Welcome to the Harness Hive. I'm in the Harness Hive now. I'm in the Harness Hive now. I'm just like wow I wouldn't even want to use these high powered models for it It works so well with the medium powered model It doesn't need like the biggest brain in the world To accomplish this task

38:39Ranjan Roy:I'm in the harness hive I've honestly felt that with 4.8 even Like I saw it like where You're just like yo calm down It's okay let's just We're trying to do something basic here So yeah welcome to the harness hive I'll pass it back to you If you want to break it now that I've gotten that, now that I've gotten that, I might just walk away from this microphone. Don't leave the podcast.

39:02Big Technology Podcast Host:Look, I'm not saying the model doesn't matter. Like clearly you need good models in order to be able to create these experiences, especially if you create a lower powered version of them. But yeah, I'm in the harness I have now. I think I fully have joined. It's pretty amazing what this stuff can do. It just saves so much time once you start to like think instead of how do I use my computer for these things, How do I just turn it over to something like a coworker?

39:28Ranjan Roy:It is funny, though, that still travel situations, I feel we're going to get into a little bit of Siri later. I do love that the thing that makes me the happiest about Agentic and where it's gotten to in the last six to eight months is now most people other than even Apple marketing still have recognized that it extends far beyond just travel planning. Remember, everyone's like, what are we going to do with Agentic? It's going to buy your plane tickets for you. It's going to book your hotels for you. But we're in a good place. We're in a good place.

39:59Big Technology Podcast Host:No, it's incredible. Handing it a spreadsheet and asking it to do stuff is pretty amazing. And you can see the things kind of wheel their way through stuff that they don't understand at first or they can't accomplish at first and get better. And that's definitely been like a totally new revelation to me, even though I've been using things like Claude Code to build websites like the Summit website is built. with Cloud Code. But I just think this co-work stuff is, I'm starting to use it more and more, and it really, really is super productive for me. All right, let's take a break. We're going to talk about a potential pricing war between OpenAI and Anthropik coming up.

40:38Big Technology Podcast Host:And then Ranjan will tell us all that he apologizes to Tim Cook because he finally fixed Siri. Or he won't. We'll talk about it when we come back right after this. This episode is brought to you by Orchestra. A couple of weeks ago, I sat down with David Plouffe, two-time Obama campaign manager, senior White House advisor, and now a partner at Orchestra for a conversation about AI democracy and the massive gap between how this industry sees itself and how the rest of the country sees it. It's one of the most honest conversations I've had on this topic. You can watch the full thing on my YouTube channel.

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43:06Big Technology Podcast Host:It will still be me and Ranjan, but it will be with audience participation from the Big Technology AI Summit. So we are going to go through one story next week, and then we'll take questions live from the audience. And it should be a good listen. So stay tuned for that. All right, let's talk about this price war. So this is from The Wall Street Journal. OpenAI considers drastic price cuts, anticipating war for users with Anthropic. OpenAI is considering drastically lowering its prices, the prices it charges users as it seeks to win customers from its rival Anthropic. The company is weighing significant cuts to what it charges for tokens the unit of measurement artificial intelligence firms use to build for their products.

43:45Big Technology Podcast Host:The move would be in anticipation of similar cuts the company expects at Anthropic. Business executives have begun to balk at high prices for AI usage. OpenAI chief executive Sam Altman said at a recent event that costs have become a huge issue. I think we'll have a lot of ways we can help people get more value for less spent. Is this the beginning of a price war between OpenAI and Anthropik that just drives the price of frontier intelligence down to not zero, but way lower than it is today? And if so, what does that mean for the AI industry?

44:18Ranjan Roy:So to me, this is a really interesting story. And I can tell you, like, the amount, again, how fast this stuff is moving. Three to four months ago, no executive I spoke with was really concerned with token consumption and costs. And now suddenly that's all anyone wants to talk about. And I do think, like, this is a really dangerous game OpenAI would be playing if they move in this direction. Because the way you figure it is, like, they were going to lose costs. They're going to lose on costs at some point to a deep seek or others. So they have built themselves as premium products that should win at the kind of frontier model layer.

45:02Ranjan Roy:And it's a luxury product, essentially. So if, again, like any luxury industry knows, like if you cheapen that, that can actually fundamentally threaten your overall like standing brand business everything. And it's almost funny to me too because I saw a lot of kind of open AI boosters trying to argue that the actual individual API call or the individual token that is distributed or inferred is profitable, is a very high margin business if you strip out all model trading costs. So you send out that token, it's like a 70%, 80 % margin transaction. if you remove the hundreds of billions of dollars you've spent, and that's why OpenAI loses$9 billion a year.

45:50So I think this is, like, if them going aggressively to Anthropic

45:55Ranjan Roy:and trying to undercut them, I think could be short-term beneficial for them. But I think long-term just dramatically hurts them and Anthropic because right now they are premium products.

46:11Big Technology Podcast Host:Is this just a natural progression? of where this business is going to go, which is that the intelligence layer becomes commoditized because there's so many people building it. Well, I mean, then it becomes more about the model

46:23Ranjan Roy:and the harness and the product. Yeah. No, no, I think, I mean, I do think, I think this is actually one of the bigger threats to both of these companies right now, even more so with open AI. And we've talked about this for years now that no one knows what the sustainable economics of these businesses are, especially like a very high investment frontier model-driven research lab turned consumer or enterprise business. No one knows what the economics should look like. We do know they are not software margins, traditional software margins. Like the marginal cost of distributing a product is not effectively zero.

47:09Ranjan Roy:So like we know it's going to look different. but them chasing and driving this in the wrong direction, I think could be really bad. Do you think they're going to do it one? And do you think it would be good or bad for them if they do?

47:25Big Technology Podcast Host:It'll be fun to ask Greg Brockman about it next week at the summit. So I will do that. I think they will. I mean, I think that there's, if you think about it strategically, right? Anthropic has been winning. It's also, it's like part of this is about lifetime value, right? Anthropic has been winning over a lot of these enterprise customers with its offering. And once you win these people over and you get them set on your system, they're not going to want to go anywhere else for a while because they're going to build that habit. Because if it's working for them, then why would they go somewhere else?

47:59Big Technology Podcast Host:And so I think that OpenAI probably sees it as, well, if we drop our prices, we're going to lean on our strength. And what's their strength? They have all this infrastructure. They've invested in more infrastructure than Anthropic. Dario called it YOLOing, right? What they're doing on the infrastructure side. If you've built the infrastructure, why not lean on that as a strength and try to win these companies over and get that lifetime value that will be difficult for Anthropic to get over time?

48:27Ranjan Roy:But that assumes switching costs are low. Like what you just said there in terms of like once they're in your system. But remember, in most of these cases, it's just an API call. Or we've seen how dramatically Claude code users could switch over to codex and when you're in the command line it all looks kind of the same anyway. It's not like the average end user has chat GPT open. Now maybe memory and context become part of the mode or the switching cost but overall from the pure model delivery perspective I don't think that is really the case.

49:08Big Technology Podcast Host:Interesting. Wait, let me ask you something because we're going to talk about it next week too. Are you a believer in this, like in the argument that it's becoming more and more prominent, more and more prevalent that model orchestration is where like the real value will be found as opposed to just the raw intelligence of the models you produce?

49:27Ranjan Roy:I can say that that is at the core of what we sell at Writer, and that's what I've been working on the last 12 months, and yeah, 100%. I mean, I've got to say, being the orchestration layer, being across and actually being interoperable across different models, even though we have our own foundation model, this is what we've been building for a long time now. And I'm telling you, I've seen the switch in the last few months where people really, executives really did not think about token cost, and now it's all anyone is talking about. So yeah, I'm an orchestration guy through and through. Yes. Beyond harness, beyond the product.

50:06Big Technology Podcast Host:But isn't that very bearish for the big model companies? I mean, they can build the most intelligent system they want, but ultimately if it goes orchestration, then what are they going to do?

50:18Ranjan Roy:It is. Because it is sort of much less. I mean, if you already saw, like, I mean, like model routing, even finding, and the thing is they're trying to push it even themselves, but within their own family. Again, when you are searching about how to alter your own mitochondria to make yourself a bioweapon, Fable 5 is downgrading you and doing some model routing to, I think, Haiku or something like that. So everyone is recognizing it's where things are going that's just the model routing side now orchestrating across different systems and this is where there's more value and co-work is kind of like that entry point into feeling the power of what if i could connect some documents and files and some model what could i do and like some logins i think that becomes the entry point for an individual but yeah i'm an orchestration

51:14Big Technology Podcast Host:guy through and through okay all right interesting stuff we'll obviously be speaking about this over the next month on the show because a lot of these conversations that we're going to have next week, which we'll try to air as many as we can on the podcast, will feature this, including a conversation with Arv and Cernivas, the CEO of Perplexity. Okay, before we go, Apple, WWDC, it happened this week. You've been begging the company for years to fix Siri. Do you think Siri's fixed?

51:41Ranjan Roy:Oh, man. I know I've been a bit of a hater on today's show, but I am going to say it. I have not used it yet. I have been going back and forth because apparently if you upgrade to the developer beta on your Mac, you can already install Siri via command line. But I have not done it yet. I think I might be, but I don't know. I saw Joanna Stern has not been the biggest fan of Siri in the past, and she had some pretty good videos out about her using it. I've seen a lot of people, And then even M.G. Siegler and his argument, like, it just all started kind of hitting. I'm like, oh, my God, if they actually do this, everyday AI, and like, what does that mean for open AI?

52:31Ranjan Roy:What is that? I mean, it's just it changes the look. By December, we are having such a different conversation about the landscape. and my God, if Apple pulls this off, but it feels like they have a shot now more than ever. Do you think they're going to do it? Does it feel real?

52:50Big Technology Podcast Host:I think they did it. I think they did it. I mean, I was, so again, I was banned from WWDC. You're not allowed into WWDC this year. Fair enough. But I was still on the day of, or the day after, I was on CNBC and said, look, the stock's down 4%. I think investors are wrong here. I think they're being too negative because consumer AI is wide open and what Apple's done is it's used its operating system to first provide a lot of context for people on their phones, right? Like your phone is a screen where you're like tackling so many different things. And if you could just say, hey, Siri, what does this mean?

53:27Big Technology Podcast Host:Or how do I get there? Or can you copy this and paste it into my notes? These are simple actions that you apply a gender-inviative AI layer and all of a sudden the phone becomes more powerful than it was previously. I haven't used it yet, but I've seen enough videos to put my early analysis in. I think it's going to work. I think that the bar was also so low that they have to just show a little incremental progress and everyone's going to be like, wow, they did it. And I think that's absolutely what's going to happen. They will clear the bar.

53:58Ranjan Roy:I would like John Ternus to come on this show to thank us because thanks to just ripping on siri for a few years now we have set the bar so incredibly low that just answering a basic like gpt4o voice mode query will make everyone just marvel because honestly i saw someone was like asking uh they're like i have a 7 a.m flight what time should i get to the airport and it was like based on your location and a typical wait for an uber at this time and i'm like i mean that is such basic Gemini Check GPT stuff. But everyone who's like commenting on Twitter, like this is incredible. So yeah, we have set a very low bar and that's the best possible place you can start.

54:45Ranjan Roy:So you're welcome to this.

54:47Big Technology Podcast Host:Let's just say it's not the most advanced stuff. It's not the most mind blowing stuff, but because of where it sits, it doesn't need to be, right? As long as it sits in the operating system and it really is like biggest loser if this thing works is meta, right? Because their personal super intelligence becomes that much harder for people to access if they have a working intelligence on their phone, even if it's not super, just intelligence.

55:12Ranjan Roy:I'm already having visions of all the stuff they could do if it works, but I'm not going to let you hurt me, Apple. I'm not going to let you get me that excited. If it works, my God, it just opens up just like an entire universe of interesting, fun opportunity, but I won't let myself get hurt again, Apple. I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait till sometime this year, because you haven't even told me when, but sometime this year, sometimes later this year, I believe was the exact phrasing.

55:43Big Technology Podcast Host:They're going to do it eventually, right? They're a technology company. They're going to eventually, they've basically taken it off the shelf from Google to a degree and use that to help train their own models, but they're going to figure it out. Stakes are too high, and when they do, it's going to be cool. So I think this will be the first step toward it. And personally, my expectations were low coming into the week, and they were exceeded. So I'm excited to use this new Siri on my phone.

56:13Ranjan Roy:You haven't used it yet. Neither of us have used it. Do you think it'll let you alter your mitochondria?

56:21Big Technology Podcast Host:I sure as hell hope so. I have, yeah, three days, five days to bring that out.

56:27Ranjan Roy:Imagine if Siri ended up being the AI platform that helped you with that project. Fable 5, it's the true danger that it's so good. It is a cybersecurity risk that can threaten humanity and the entire global economic infrastructure.

56:46Big Technology Podcast Host:I have to say, if we end up like getting wiped out by a super bug that's been generated on siri i'm gonna be really mad

56:53Ranjan Roy:it'll be ironic actually for the irony i'll be happy so they did it as we melt away into the

57:00Big Technology Podcast Host:abyss you were right i'm sorry sorry tim tim's like uh only i had a turnus king turnus he's gonna he's gonna melt us all right all right well in which case i will apologize to apple for all the things I've said about their AI. All right, Ranjan, we'll see you next week in San Francisco. Looking forward to it. I will see you on stage in San Francisco. And we will see you all the day later here in the feed. So thank you again, Ranjan. Great to talk to you as always. See you next week. See you next week. And thanks to all of you, the listeners and viewers. Pleasure to do this show for you guys every week.

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