#117 Stop People Pleasing: How To Set Boundaries (And Say No) | Charlamagne Tha God

24:09So I get it. Like people, and it's funny, I've been having, it's so, 50 is such an interesting person to me. And I've been having these conversations about 50 for years. I remember it started with, I remember a long time ago, a couple of, you know, executives in the business was talking to me about 50.

24:24Charlamagne Tha God:And they was like, why, you know, why does he always got to go after Irvin Ja? Why can't he just finally, God bless the dead, why can't he just let it go? I'm like, he got shot nine times. They've had fist fights. They got stabbed. he got stabbed by them like you wouldn't really let that go either like that like yeah that's not something you could just I don't even think a therapist could tell you just to let that go and they were like you know what you right you know what I'm saying so there's always and I remember 50 said this one time 50 was like people always see when I punch but they don't see when the person swung at me first you know what I mean and I'm not I'm not saying that you know I'm not saying everything you know he does is justified because I really don't know but from the things that I've seen I get it I can complete I completely you know understand it and that's why you got to just be you know very don't offend the wrong person that's one of the four day laws of power do not offend the wrong person because you might have an enemy for life I would never want to like 50 like you know like just cut the podcast edit it out and honestly man sometimes that man that that is therapeutic within itself like just saying fuck a person I don't fuck with you like who who says we have to fuck with people like who says that like who we talk about that statement money is the root all evil who told us that we gotta forgive everybody Who told us that, you know, we got to love everybody?

26:05Charlamagne Tha God:Like, who said that? Like, sometimes it's fuck this person and it's fuck this person for life and I don't fuck with them. And people be like, man, you're exhausting too much energy on that individual. Says who? And what if I want to exhaust this energy on this individual? Like, what if I want, you know, to do exactly what it is that I'm doing and it makes me happy to do it? Who am I to tell that person that they're wrong? And by the way, whatever energy comes back to you from doing that, he got to deal with that. And I think he's fully aware. Yeah. I think he's fully aware of it and it does not bother him in any way, shape or form.

26:45Charlamagne Tha God:And there's a certain level of freedom that I admire. Yeah. It is. That smile when he does. It's a certain. And by the way, I've had these conversations with him. Have you? On air, off air. because I've been, I've been, he's one of the most interesting, you know, people to me just because he's, he's a cancer and there's a lot of things that I relate to, but. And he seems like a smart motherfucker. Oh, he's brilliant. You don't, you don't, you don't come out of the Southside, Jamaica, Queens and achieve the things that he's achieved, you know, achieved things, lost things, got them back triple and, and yo, not even having success in multiple industries.

27:20Charlamagne Tha God:That's what, that's what he don't get enough credit for. Yeah. He did his thing in music, but he went from an artist, started his own. label, had successful artists under his label. Like, I'm, this is another, I'm glad we're having this conversation as well, but he's another person that I really look at, you know, as a blueprint because that's what you're supposed to do. And I remember, and he says things that I remember. He said, I'm a general with G unit, but I'm a soldier when I'm with Eminem and Dr. Dre. That right there is a jewel because I hate when people say things like, yeah, but you work for a corporation and I also own a lot of things as well.

28:00Charlamagne Tha God:So what's the problem? You can do both and to watch him go from a talent to starting his own record label to having four or five successful artists then having success with clothing, having success with a sneaker then now in television and filmed. You know how hard that is? I cannot imagine. This guy has multiple franchises of various TV shows. Yeah. And he lost it. That's the part that I think, like, coming back, like, the mental fortitude to lose it, to be in bankruptcy. Like, you can make it. You can make it. Absolutely. But to lose it and get it back. And to get it back. Oof. Yeah. And to remain himself throughout it all.

28:46Yeah.

28:47Charlamagne Tha God:I actually think sometimes he does that just to remind himself I'm still me. Let me go. Let me jump. I'll be feeling that sometimes. Like, you know, yeah, let me find somebody to really go at it with right now just to remind myself I'm still me. Like, I don't know. I got a lot of respect and admiration for 50. I'm going to clip this out. Every time somebody talks shit, I'm going to re-listen to you and I'm going to remember this. But listen, don't listen to me, though, because I'm a cancer and I'm still dealing with my own stuff, too. but I can't hold revenge I think it's a little healthy to be able to keep like a little bit of that edge and just let it go and I like anti-heroes oh yeah that's my thing too I like anti-heroes do you have one?

29:27do you have like a Diddy like 50 has one? do you have one and you're like yeah fuck that guy right now I won't say his name but Dan

29:34Charlamagne Tha God:yeah but I already won oh shoot he didn't do one yeah I done won several I've had a few but I've won so it's like it's not the same you know I mean there's nobody I really want to like stomp on them while they die. And probably, you know what? Probably I've never had one to that level. I probably never had one to that level. I've never had nobody try to like physically, like, well, you know, I'm lying. I have had people send people to physically harm me, but it's like a punch in the face. You know what I mean? It's not like a shooting or a stabbing or anything like that. So yeah, but when I sound like antiheroes, I like the Batmans of the world.

30:10I like the, you know, Tony Starks, the Deadpools, the Wolverines. Wolverines. You know what I mean? I like those type of anti-heroes. I'm the guy that, you know, I would, I root for the villain in movies sometimes, you know, and, and, and to me, like 50 is the ultimate hip hop anti-hero. What about you? You know, you've been doing Breakfast Club for many years now. You've been online for, how long have you been online before? Now we're going to tell everybody how old you are.

30:38Charlamagne Tha God:No, no, let me see. I mean, well, there's two different types. I'm old enough to remember that there's two different types of online right the first time because there was the my spaces oh fuck i remember that you know what i'm saying square people that's right so there was the my spaces uh there was the black planets but those weren't necessarily social media like you might be in a a forum or a chat room a chat i forgot what they used to call them chat rooms or something back then but yeah i i remember twitter i remember when i got on twitter so early i didn't even know that people replied to you I remember when somebody said, you got to check your ads.

31:12Charlamagne Tha God:I think it might have been Lil Duval or somebody I was talking to. And I'm like, I don't really like Twitter, man. You just be on there talking to yourself. And he was like, what do you mean you be on there talking to yourself? I'm like, I post stuff, but it's just there. And he was like, man, you got to check your ads. I'm like, the ads? And then that's when you clicked on your ads and you started seeing everybody atting you. And you're like, oh. But you're like, I wish I never knew that existed. That's how I feel about it some days. I stopped going on Twitter in like 2018, 2019. But we got on, I think I got on Twitter in like, oh, 7?

31:46Oh, 8 maybe? Yeah. Yeah, that place is a little wild. Oh, it's not good for my mental health in no way, shape, or form. But you got to know that though. So we're all in verbally abusive relationships with our smartphones. Why would you go to a place where somebody's constantly telling you that you ain't shit? If you were married to a person like that, you wouldn't stick around in that relationship. If you were at a job and you had a boss talking to you like that, I don't think you would stick around in that relationship. So why do we do that with social media? And I'm not forgetting just the block features and the unfollowing folks.

32:20Charlamagne Tha God:I'd rather not even go over there. I'm a stern believer in if somebody be like, hey, man, why don't you come over to the house? We having this party. We having a cookout. Who are all over there? If they say the wrong people and the wrong energy, you're not going. So why do we take our monkey asses over to social media, especially Twitter? I don't want to be. I have no place. I have no desire to be over there. That's really smart. A little social cleanse. I have not been on this since 2018. What about like you've probably changed a lot since 2018. Like I imagine 15 years online. Are there some things that you have said before?

32:56Like back in the day, you're like, this is true. I believe it with all of my being. And now, fuck, I was wrong. I remember talking to Malcolm Gladwell one time.

33:05Charlamagne Tha God:And Malcolm Gladwell said to me, you know, there's a lot of things that I wrote in books like The Outliers that I don't necessarily believe anymore. Interesting. And I was like, oh, my God. Like that kind of threw me for a loop. But then I had to think to myself, like, just because he wrote it in that book and he has maybe evolved and learned a lot more information and it's taken him someplace else doesn't mean that somebody else isn't going to pick up that book right now and it's going to meet them where they are. Do you think about your books that way? Like when I was going back through and I hadn't read one, I didn't realize you had multiple books.

33:42And so when I, I know when I went back and I was reading, so I had read Black Privilege. And then when I went through and I was looking at Get Honest or Die, Lion. Yeah, that's my last one, my third one. I didn't realize that you had such a focus on mental health. And I don't know why. I guess I had seen Breakfast Club and I'd thought of your persona a lot there. But I like asking you these questions because when I think about our – like the person who's listening here, I'm always thinking about them maybe a little less than the guest. Like what does Charlemagne have that I feel like every human listening is just going to like – it's going to blow their mind this week and it's going to help their life somehow.

34:20And that's kind of how I think about you. It's like you have this amazing career but it's mostly like what do you got that they need, you know? And when I think about your career in particular, there's a couple of ways I want to go with it that I think could be really helpful with people. One, conversations. We're having less of them. You have them deeply. And even with people you don't – I don't know if you don't like them or not, but maybe you don't agree with everything. Maybe you sometimes don't like them. And I guess one of the questions I have for you is like what do you do when you have a conversation with somebody you don't like or agree with?

34:51Charlamagne Tha God:You disagree to disagree. Like, I don't think I don't know. There's too many people I've had conversations with who I don't like because I don't know them personally not to like them. Yeah. I may not like their ideologies. I may not like, you know, some of their worldviews, but I don't know them personally to not like them. And I mean, that's what conversation is for. And just because you have a conversation with a person doesn't mean you end up liking them at the end of the conversation. But I feel like as human beings, we should respect each other enough to discuss. And even if we discuss and debate and argue and we might even get to yelling in an interview.

35:26Charlamagne Tha God:But I think that's just what happens when you are having a real, healthy, honest conversation with somebody. So I don't I think this is our job. Like I'm a radio personality. I'm a podcast. I'm a media personality. Right. Just like you're a media personality. If I choose to invite you into my space and have a conversation with you, it is ridiculous to just then say, you know what, I'm going to slam dunk on this person. I'm inviting this person in my space just to slam dunk on them. If you get dunked on in the midst of the conversation, that's different. But I invited you for a conversation. So have the conversation and, you know, see where it goes.

36:07Charlamagne Tha God:Do you get a lot of comments online? Like, why are you having this person all the time? all the time. What do you say to the people who won't have a conversation with somebody? Like, what if somebody's listening right now, and this happens around the holidays, probably good timing for it. They're like, I'm not fucking going home because Aunt Becky loves, insert one political party, and I don't want to talk to them. I think that's the most ridiculous thing in the world. And the reason I think that's the most ridiculous thing in the world, because, you know, politics are very bleeding, right? Right.

36:36And the next few years, hopefully. Right. If we still have free and fair elections, they'll be electing, you know, somebody else. And there'll be a lot of damage done because of the current administration. But the way people felt will kind of be a thing of the past. Right. Maybe, you know, I mean, you know, Maya Angelou said that, you know, people forget what you did, they'll forget what you said. they'll never forget how you made them feel. So maybe people will forget about it. But man, I've been alive long enough

37:09Charlamagne Tha God:to have seen how this goes before. And I mean, that's your family member. Don't blame who's in the White House on you not wanting to talk to your family member. You never liked this person to begin with. Cut it out. Because if you could just cut me off or cut somebody off based on who they voted for, You never really like that person. This goes back to what we were saying about time. Don't blame time for you not wanting to do something. You don't like this individual. You never really did. And now you feel like you got a valid excuse to not talk to that person anymore. And I feel like, you know, when it comes to just us as media personalities, listen, I've seen media personalities, you know, say, I don't know why, you know, Charlemagne talks to these kind of people or why the Breakfast Club talks to these kind of people.

38:02Charlamagne Tha God:They don't say that to anybody else but us. Like they don't say that to Jake Tapper. Right. Historically, they didn't say that to people like, you know, Diane Sawyer, Barbara Walters, Oprah Winfrey. I grew up in the era of watching Donahue have the Grand Wizard of the KKK on. Right. And I grew up in the era of, you know, Donahue would host us, not just Donahue. I mean, everybody would talk to people that they didn't necessarily agree with. Right. Nobody said anything back then. So why is it such a thing now? And I would tell all of these media personalities, you know, when you say things like, man, I would have never done that.

38:43Charlamagne Tha God:That's why you're not me. That's just the reality of the situation. That's why you're not me. So don't ask yourself why you don't get the things that I get, you know, per se. Because you don't do the things that I do. I have no problem sitting down having conversations with people that I may not agree with. But that's just because of the great personalities that I saw before me. They were doing the same thing. I used to, man, they used to do specials where they would go talk to Charles Manson while he was in prison. Yeah. They talked to Jeffrey Dahmer. He ate people. And you're not going to talk to somebody just because they got a different political.

39:21Charlamagne Tha God:A Republican. That's great. That is that's crazy to me. I'm also old enough to remember when people hated guys like George W. Bush. Now everybody loves George, but they love watching George Bush with Michelle Obama. And it's always so cute. Such a great relationship. I remember when y 'all were calling George Bush the Antichrist. Oh, sure. Well, or if you go back to history, Democrats were actually Republicans. Republicans were actually Democrats like the whole party. They've changed back and forth. They had different ideologies at the time, though. Totally. Yeah. But it's kind of wild to see, you know, what used to be a Democrat today was a Republican at one point and same and vice versa.

39:56It's like we put these hard lines on. But it's it's a really interesting point because you're right. I actually went to journalism school. I always wanted to be a journalist. I ended up in business and finance for all these other reasons. I guess we've come back. But I used to love Walter Cronkite for that reason.

40:09Charlamagne Tha God:Yeah. I mean, there was a time where you would want to get that interview. Like, yo, we saw a freaking Barbara Walters went and spoke to Fidel Castro. Like, those were the type of things that we constantly saw the greats do. So who are we to be like, nah, I'm not going to do that. Nah, that's not. So if not you, who? And why not talk to that person and ask that person the questions that, you know, the world may want to know? Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about, like, the business side for a second. One, congratulations. Amazing news recently on a huge deal you did. That's so cool. Thank you.

40:51Resigned with iHeart Media. Yeah. And I think, like, not even to get into details on that, but, like, it's really cool to see somebody do an incredible deal and do a re-signing. and have it go really public, and have it be in this new age of media, you know, which is, I think, typically deals like that. You had to be with CNN or CNBC or some huge network. And now this is kind of you, you know. This is, you could move Breakfast Club, Charlemagne, anywhere, and you're the network now. So it's really cool to see. Congratulations. Yeah, and I mean, even salute to iHeart. You know, I've been with iHeart for 15 years, you know, started off as a talent, you know then became a partner when I created the Black Effect Podcast Network which is you know by far the largest podcast network you know for black podcasts I think right now we got like 50 to 60 podcasts where but you know we wanted to create a space that was specifically for black podcasters because that didn't exist like you know I'm the type of person I like to look around the marketplace and you know see what's missing from the marketplace and that was something that was missing to me.

41:58I loved what Bill Simmons was doing with The Ringer. You know, I loved, you know, watching what they were doing with SmartList. I watched, you know, loved watching what they were doing with Gimlet. But I saw a lot of these black creators who were doing two things, right?

42:10Charlamagne Tha God:They were putting their podcast out, but it was like video first. So their videos were getting like tremendous views, but the audio wasn't necessarily reflecting that. We all know that the money is in the audio. So I was like, man, you know, what if we created this network, you know, got these individuals who already have these, you know, podcasts, put us, you know, all under one umbrella and use iHeart sales team to really, really pump their audio. Because iHeart is the biggest, you know, conglomerate when it comes to audio. Nobody does audio better than iHeart. I'm not saying that because I work with them.

42:48I'm saying that because it's the truth, right? So radio, podcasting, nobody does audio better than iHeart. And man, if I could show y 'all the data of some of these podcasts who had these big video numbers, but the audio numbers weren't necessarily matching the video and how when they partnered with Black Effect and iHeart, how we were able to get those audio numbers booming to the point where we're at like 11 million, 12 million audio downloads a month. And that makes, you know, Black Effect, you know, one of the biggest podcast networks out there like that's very rare air to be you know have a network getting 11 million 12 million audio downloads a month and you know things like that is what makes you a lot more valuable to you know whatever company you're with what's interesting i kind of want to talk about that for a second i don't i don't know about you but like i had a long period i'm trying to i'm thinking through it right now but where i'm latina i'm a chick and it always bothered me when somebody would reach out to me and say like, hey, we want to talk to you.

43:49You're a female CEO. We'd love to have a female CEO come speak about XYZ or like you're a Latina CEO. Come speak. And I kind of would be like, one, if it was female CEO, I'd be like, I don't know what my vagina has to do with it. Like I just I'm just in charge of this business. And I happen to have that anatomy, you know. And and I remember I did write that in one email. And then one of my execs was like maybe we could not do that um but i kind of like took it personal i had a little chip on my shoulder maybe i have less than one now but i'm curious for you like when people say like charlamagne black ceo come speak like are you like yeah fuck yeah because i represent all these people are you like who cares i'm a ceo i just happen to be black like how do you think about that that's a great question i don't um when i pull up the chick-fil-a it don't bother me that you know, they specialize in chicken sandwiches.

44:41I'm pulling up the Chick-fil-A because they specialize in chicken sandwiches. You know, if I want to go to, you know, pizza, if I want pizza that night, I'm not going to go to a burger spot. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like, for me, that don't, it don't bother me because we are, we are unicorns because we can't sit here and act like we don't understand the country that we live in. We live in the country called America. America is, you know, a country

45:02Charlamagne Tha God:that was founded on white supremacy. Like, you know, just call it what it is. Right. So like that is what people think of when they think of America. That's what they've always presented to us. Right. Like a white man. So I don't have a problem being a quote unquote unicorn in this space. If you are a woman CEO who's done great things. Hey, sadly, we live in a country that doesn't think women can do amazing things. Like this is a country that, you know, just gave women the right to vote in our lifetime. Right. So you know how they kind of already perceive women. So when they look at you as a woman CEO, they're looking at you like, damn, I can't believe she she did.

45:44Charlamagne Tha God:Oh, I can't believe she got that done. Why? Because you're a woman. Same thing with a black person. Why? I can't believe that a black person could achieve those kind of things because of all of the things that this country has thrown at us historically. So things like that do not bother me. If you want me to come out here and be the, you know, the bearded woman at the circus. So I don't have no problem with that because I feel like by the time I sit down with you and have a conversation, you're going to say to yourself, I understand why that person is in the position that they're in. Yeah. You know, it's interesting.

46:15I think culture and race are – I don't think about it as much now because I'm like a little bit of a spreadsheet nerd. But, you know, as I've gotten on the internet more and then people, of course, they notice you. They're like, yeah, he's black. And I'm like, yeah, she's a chick. I'm like, okay, yeah, I guess that's part of the equation. Yeah, you've been stating obvious. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm like, all right. But then I realized, man, actually, there was a bunch of stuff when I was growing up that we didn't actually do that I think hurt us monetarily and hurt. And by us, I guess I mean women or Latinos in this instance.

46:44Like when I was growing up, you know how they say you don't talk about sex, religion, politics? Politics, yeah. For Latinos, religion is cool. Jesus is all around. Like everybody can talk about Jesus. But you don't talk about sex. You don't talk about politics. You don't talk about money. Like money is like nobody talks about that as a Latino. And I think for that reason, it was harder for me to make money growing up. Because I was like, no, we don't talk about it. It's not good. It's private. Rich people kind of suck because you had to be bad to get it. And so I had all these ingrained narratives.

47:13And I'm curious, in black culture, is it similar at all? Can you talk about money in the same way? Are there things that hold black people back monetarily that you're like, why the fuck do we do that and don't do that anymore? You know, that's a great question. I don't like to answer questions on behalf of the whole black race. Because black people are not, you know, monolithic. And, you know, there's a lot of black people who don't like me. So I don't want them to think that I'm speaking. I'm speaking for them. But from my perspective, yeah, a lot of conversations like financial literacy did not happen, you know, in the black community.

47:46Like, at least in my community. I don't want to say in the black community. At least in my circumference. Like, you know, my father was definitely an entrepreneur, right? Like, my father, you know, he owned a fish market when I was young. So I would be there hanging out, you know, working. My father also did construction. So he was an entrepreneur, even though he did work for a construction company for a period of time. But for the most part, you know, all the money he made was, you know, doing things independently. So that was always kind of my mindset. But nobody taught me about, you know, taxes and, you know, you know, high yield savings accounts and stocks.

48:21Charlamagne Tha God:Like I didn't learn about any of that stuff till I got in my late 30s, you know, early 40s. I think the not talking about money thing is interesting, though, because, of course, none of us wanted to be broke. Right. That's what led, you know, you know, guys like me to start selling dope. Right. Because, you know, you don't want to be broke. But money was never my motivation ever. A lot of the times, even when I started, you know, selling dope, I was just doing that because the people around me were doing it. and you would get clowned for being broke, but I never needed money to really get anything that y 'all got.

49:00Charlamagne Tha God:A lot of times these guys are trying to get money to impress women and things like that. I wasn't the best looking, but I could hold a really good conversation. I could make you laugh. Check, check. You know what I mean? The girls that y 'all was trying to get, I was getting just being my natural broke self, right? So it's like money was never my motivation. What was my motivation was wanting to realize my full potential as a person on this planet. Even when you were younger, you were never scared about being broke or not having money. That wasn't part of your equation. Were you religious when you were young?

49:39Yeah, I grew up. My mother was a Jehovah Witness. My mother was a Jehovah Witness. My grandmother was a Baptist. My father was a Jehovah Witness too until he got this fellowship. And then, you know, he started studying Islam. So I was getting hit from all different angles. I had my grandmother who was a Baptist, my mother who was a Jehovah Witness, my father who was studying Islam. So I was reading Watchtowers, Awakes, the autobiography of Malcolm X. I had it all. But there was different things that motivated me to want to be successful. Like when I heard Biggie Small say, being broke at 30, give a brother the chills.

50:10Like, right? Or when TLC made no scrubs. I don't want no scrub. A scrub is a guy sitting in his best friend's ride, you know, on the passenger side trying to holler at me. All of the outcasts and goody mob made, I want to get up. You need to get up, get out and get something. Don't let the days of your life pass by. You need to get up, get out and get something.

50:31Charlamagne Tha God:You know, don't spend all your days getting high because, you know, you and I got to do for you and I. When you hear that, that ain't that's not necessarily about money. That's just about brother, you know, get up and do something with your life, figure it out. And even back then, man, I had no problem. I thought about going in the military. You know, there was a time I wanted to work at UPS because, you know, I had an uncle who worked at UPS. Like, and same thing with the military. I had a, you know, my mother's first cousin, his name was Bruce. He was in the military. So I was just looking at all of these different things that could potentially get me off this dirt road in Mountskins, South Carolina.

51:07Charlamagne Tha God:It wasn't necessarily always entertainment. Like, I had no problem living what people call the so-called American dream. Like you just figure out something, you know, that can make you some money to be able to afford a nice place to stay, have some food on the table. And if you want to have a family one day, you can do that. But, you know, it wasn't necessarily I want to be rich. I want to be famous. I want to be this, you know, multimillionaire. You know, it wasn't necessarily that. Like I just wanted to not waste the life that God gave me on this planet. Yeah, that's true. You have talked a lot about God.

51:44on your podcast, in your books, here. What is your relationship with God? And how do you use that in your day-to-day? Man, I'm only sitting here because of God. Whatever you want to call him, Jehovah, Allah, Jesus Christ. I'm literally in this position that I'm in right now because from the time that I can remember, from day one, there was a higher power, you know, guiding me. I know we talk about these, we talk about having like praying grandmothers and, you know, praying mothers. I really, really had that. Like I had, I was a kid going to field service every Saturday morning. Right. So, you know, as long as I can remember, I've been a praying person and not just, you know, praying, and like praying and asking God for guidance and direction and like literally feeling that presence of a higher power with me.

52:44That higher power literally guiding me and directing me and telling me to go do X, Y and Z. Go do this. Go do that. Like literally. And, you know, it was the times where I didn't listen to that voice the way I should have, you know, that caused, you know, so-called negative things that happened to me. And the reason I say so-called negative things is because I feel like everything is just a part of this process called life, right? The so-called good, the so-called bad. Everything that happens to you while we're living this thing called life is just part of the process that led you and I to both be sitting here, you know, in this moment.

53:23But I just feel like the whole way through, it's just been God. And I mean, I remember last year I said to God, I was praying, meditating, and I said to God, I said, God, I am ready for every single thing you have planned for me on this planet. I said, I want it all. And I know people might hear that and they might think, you know, monetary things are just the good things that come with success.

53:54Charlamagne Tha God:No, I want to experience every single thing that God wants me to experience on this planet. Because I truly believe that. I truly believe that, you know, things don't happen to you. They happen for you. So I don't care what it is. I take good news, so-called good news, the same way I take so-called bad news. Because it's just like, all right, well, what God got planned for me next? Even today, you might get some news from a business perspective and you're like, hmm, I didn't want that to happen, but God clearly has something else planned. So I'm open for it. Score more with the college branded Venmo debit card and earn up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash.

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55:22Bring a new look to your floors or give them a durable surface that stands up to life's tough messes. Get 12-month special financing on installed carpet projects right now at The Home Depot. Offer valid March 12th through March 29th, 2026. Exclusions and additional charges may apply. For licenses, see homedepot.com slash license numbers. Interesting. I have this line. I guess I was raised similar to you. I was raised with a lot of religious influence. It didn't permeate or it did negatively at some point. And I felt like I had to break that. I became sort of agnostic, atheist. Then I came back to faith.

55:58But there's a line that I always think of by this. She was actually a feminist back in the day, Emma Bombeck. And she has this line that I love, which is she says, when I stand before God at the end of my days, I hope to be able to say I have not one drop left. I used every single thing that you gave me. Yes. And every time I'm struggling, I think about that. And I was wondering for you, you're such a man of you read multiple books a week and many a month. And you're such a man like you remember all these quotes. Are there quotes that you live by that you like when your faith is struggling that you repeat in your head?

56:30Yeah, I got two. And these are ones that I actually made up. I deal with really bad panic attacks. Right. Like I've got I've got a handle on them, you know, in my more recent years. But like when I was young, I deal with like these really severe panic attacks. And when I didn't know what they were, when I didn't know that I was having actual panic attacks, I would always repeat this mantra. I would say, I love Jehovah God and his son, Jesus Christ. I love Jehovah God and his son, Jesus Christ. I love Jehovah God and his son, Jesus Christ. Fuck Satan, fuck Satan, fuck Satan. So I would say I love Jehovah God and his son, Jesus Christ three times.

57:05and I would say fuck Satan three times. And the reason I would do that is because, you know, when you read in the Bible, in the book of Job, you know, Job's wife kept telling Job, hey, curse God and die. Right, why don't you just curse God and die? So I used to always be like, why would I curse God? Like, I'm not going to ever curse God and die, so let me just curse Satan. Because I feel like this, what I now know to be anxiety, this panic attack is him. So I would say, I love Jehovah God and his son Jesus Christ, fuck Satan. And yo, I can't even front. and it would bring me back to center in a real way.

57:37I mean, now when you, you know, I've done a lot more work on myself, so I do meditation and things like that. So I understand mantras, right? Like you understand the mantra when you're counting your beads, when you're meditating, you understand how that can bring you back to center. I was doing that back then and didn't even know it. And my other motto that I always say is I always say, yo, keep God first, stay humble, keep working. Anything that happens in my life, I say keep God first, stay humble, keep working. And I'm glad we're having this conversation because, you know, one thing I've realized over the last few weeks, because, you know, we're taping this like the first week of January.

58:15Right. I've watched a lot of people like when certain things happen, you know, like, you know, you just talked about, you know, my new deal with iHeart. I've watched a lot of people have conversations about that. And, man, it really makes me realize how much people don't believe in God and hard work. Yeah, it's not true. Because anytime you get to a certain level of success, they think that you had to get there by some nefarious means. They think that you got to be in the Illuminati. You know, you busting it open on the casting couch. Men and women, by the way.

58:46Charlamagne Tha God:It ain't just women that they think is busting it open on the casting couch. Men and women they think is busting it open on the casting couch. And it just makes me realize how many people don't believe in God and hard work. Because if you believed in God and hard work, you wouldn't look at somebody else and just say they only got that because they did some bullshit. You would say, man, you know, I've been watching that person for decades now. I've been doing radio for 28 years, like literally 28 years. Even if you don't count South Carolina, if you've been watching me from the time I started with Wendy, it's been 20 years.

59:20Charlamagne Tha God:You've been watching that person for 20 years. You've literally watched that person grow. You've watched them evolve. You've watched ups. You've watched downs. You've watched them go through fire. You've watched all of these different things. But the one thing you can't say is that person wasn't consistent and that person wasn't working hard. And then when that person, you know, achieved something, you want to attribute it. You want to give the devil credit for that? Yeah. Right. You want to get what you don't want to give God and hard work any credit whatsoever. So what happens when you achieve a tremendous level of success?

59:53Should we just say, oh, that person only got that because of Satan? that person only got that because they were busting it open on the Catholic couch. I don't even think people understand the narratives they create that will eventually come back and bite them in the ass as well. So yes, I give God all praises and I am only here because God has been guiding me all of these years. It's so true. I remember one of my early mentors said to me, if you hate rich people, then how do you think you're ever going to be rich? And I never hated, I'm not really a hateful kind of person. Sometimes I wish. Like I was, Sierra was here the other week on a podcast.

1:00:30I was like, what do you do, you know, when you have a hater? And she has, she's a woman of faith. You know, she's incredible. I've really come to respect her a lot. And she had such a good line. She's like, you know, I give it up to God. I don't worry about it. But she's like, I'd be keeping receipts though, you know? And she's like, I've been keeping some names. And I was like, I love that line. Like I remember, I like forgive. I'll remember though. But I think what happens with a lot of us is like, isn't it weird how we're wired from being young? Like sometimes I'll be on a stage in a business thing and I'll say to the audience, blank is the root of all evil.

1:01:05What's the root of all evil? And they'll just respond, money. Money, yeah. When did we learn that? It's not actually that in the Bible. It is the love of money is the root of all evil. But like, how are we programmed to think that? And so that's when I start realizing maybe it's not always their fault. like the people who hate on you with this iHeartMedia deal. It hurts my heart a little bit. I'm like, I know right where you are. It's that you still think that money is the root of all evil and you've never questioned why that programming is in your brain and you don't know where it came from.

1:01:37Charlamagne Tha God:I mean, I know where it came from. What do you think? It came from being broke. Like when you broke, you're going to be disgruntled. When you're broke, you're going to be upset about that And you're going to say things like money is the root of all evil. People will say things to justify why they're not in the position that they want to be in. But, man, I'm going to be honest. I know this is going to sound crazy. I genuinely, truly don't care about money. I care about being happy. I tell folks all the time, man, what is success? Success is you're doing whatever it is that you want to do, and it makes you happy.

1:02:18Charlamagne Tha God:I know people right now that, you know, are making tens of millions of dollars and they hate their jobs or they hate, you know, what it is that they're doing. So is that actually success? I know people who are in South Carolina right now making seventy five thousand dollars a year, one hundred thousand dollars a year. But they got a roof over their head. They got food on the table. They could take a vacation every now and then when they want to. and they are genuinely happy. Success should be rooted in happiness, not in a monetary amount of, you know, like this should just be rooted in, are you happy doing what it is that you're doing?

1:03:00I am happy doing what it is that I'm doing.

1:03:04Charlamagne Tha God:I love what it is that I do. I love waking up in the morning to go do morning radio. This is literally what I used to pray for and what I used to dream about when I was in Charleston, South Carolina at Z93 Jams in 1999. I was praying for times like this. I wanted to be the super jock. You heard the people I named prior, the Tom Joyners, the Doug Banks. Those were the nationally syndicated radio personalities that a whole generation was listening to. I love being in the middle of one of my unanswered prayers. So there's no dollar amount that can make me any more happier than I already have been.

1:03:46Charlamagne Tha God:I'm in the Radio Hall of Fame. I'm literally in the Radio Hall of Fame. I've been successful and happy, not because of any money, but because I chose to do something. and you know god allowed me the the wherewithal and the skill to navigate my way to that point so one of the the things that actually brought me back to you online is you had this post about the trades and you were talking about the trades yeah like uh plumbing hvac and blue collar and and i was like oh man i you know i totally agree and you were basically saying i think in so many words, like blue collar jobs are just as important and powerful as white collar jobs.

1:04:35Charlamagne Tha God:More important. There you go. So I want to talk about this with you. Like, what do you think about university versus trade school? What do you think about blue collar versus white collar? What would you say to a lot of my audience is a lot of blue collar people who are working their way up? Like, give me your take. I think, number one, you should do whatever it is that you're called to do. but I do think that sometimes we love to push people to what we think is the new trendy thing right right now it's AI you know prior to that it was like you know just just social media and the internet in general right like you got to learn how to code and all of these different things sure you know I do agree with that but man the more things change the more they stay the same you still gonna need somebody to come through this building and install the plumbing you still going to need somebody to come through this building and install the HVAC.

1:05:27You know, this building is going to need, you know, electricians, right? Like you're going to need those people with those skillsets. So I think what the future should look like is people who decide they want to go to

1:05:40Charlamagne Tha God:trade school and then using some of this new technology to make their jobs easier. It's the next generation of millionaires and, you know, tens of millionaires, maybe even billionaires are going to come from people who know how to merge the two worlds. It's funny. I was having a conversation with one of my guys about this, and they were like, why are you always telling people to go to trade school? Trade school, those are the black jobs that Donald Trump was talking about. I'm like, those are the jobs that pay green.

1:06:13Charlamagne Tha God:That's not a black job. Like we are not in this room right now without anybody who understands how to do things with their hands. Like every single piece of equipment in this room, the lighting, everything, bathroom I used earlier was because of a blue collar worker. We can't exist without them. They make the world go around. So, yeah, I do encourage, you know, a lot of people to go to trade school because everybody don't necessarily want to go to, you know, a university and get a degree. Like, and I don't have a problem with that either. Some people want to go to trade school and, you know, do that for a couple of years and come home and start making money immediately.

1:06:51I got, you know, friends and family members back home in South Carolina who've been, you know, installing HVAC and, you know, doing electrical work for 30 years.

1:07:03Charlamagne Tha God:Ain't missed a meal. Ain't missing no paycheck. They're not complaining about no recessions, nothing. They are making their money. lawn care services. Like there is so many, you know, blue collar jobs that people are making six figures on right now. And you actually, from what I understand, you have an endowment or you help with education as well in South Carolina. Yeah. I have my mother went to South Carolina State University. I have an honorary degree from South Carolina State University. And I started this endowment fund called the Ford Family Scholarship. And soon to, you know, a woman I I call another mother of mine.

1:07:41Her name is Nicole Brevard. You know, she was somebody who was instrumental in, you know, me even, you know, starting that scholarship fund at South Carolina State University. And it is for people who want to major in communications, of course, because I'm a media personality. English, because my mother is an English teacher or anything in the mental health profession. And I'm working on something right now that I think is going to really benefit people as far as like a trade school is concerned. because I want to give people incentive, you know, to go to trade school. And a lot of people can't afford trade school either.

1:08:16So it's like, you know, let's help some of those brothers and sisters who want to, you know, go to trade school as well. And I'm called right now to salute a young lady named Jordan. Jordan the Welder is her name on Instagram. The reason I'm saluting her is because she's like a Breakfast Club super listener. Like she supports us in everything that we do. Like, you know, I do the Black Effect Podcast Festival in Atlanta, you know, every year. I think we're on our like our third or fourth year and she always comes to it. But she's a welder.

1:08:46Charlamagne Tha God:And I just I just find her fascinating because she lives a great life. She's married. Right. And she's she's a welder. She makes a great living. Like I said, she comes and supports us at everything that we do. And she's a welder. So it's like, you know, we don't we don't always have to run to entertainment or athletics. you know, to live a good life. No. In fact, there's way more people that are plumbers making 100K than podcasters. And we need them. Which is a crazy thing to think about. Yes, and we need them. Like, order of magnitude. Listen, we need them. Like, I hate, man, that's why I always say treat the CEO the same way you treat the custodian.

1:09:24Yeah. Because the reality is, in a lot of ways,

1:09:27Charlamagne Tha God:the custodian is more important or just as important. Could you work in a building that was disgusting? No, absolutely not. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, you heard me. I was like, I heard a bit of noise back. back like you see what i'm saying if you knew that the bathrooms in this building were disgusting you might not ever come here ever again yeah so that's why people like the custodians and stuff are important because they make our lives so much easier so we got to constantly find ways to make their lives easier as well it's so true like one of my favorite people i opened the book with him as this guy wayne huzinga i'm really bummed that he died before i got to meet him but he was god bless the dead yeah he was a garbage man that's how he started he started he was a dropout from college.

1:10:04He went to the military. He became a garbage man driving a truck. Then he figured out, well, maybe I could buy one truck and I could start my little route. And that route turned into waste management, which became a multi-billion dollar business. And then Blockbuster that he started and sold before it went sideways and then owned a bunch of sports teams. Garbage dude. And so it's like all around us, I think the problem, like the lie that we were told is that you have to stay the garbage man when you start as the garbage man it's like yes start cleaning the toilets that's sick but then how much easier is it to climb the ladder from the guy who did the cleaning to the next rung to the next run to the next rung if

1:10:46Charlamagne Tha God:you're competent and then on the motherfucker that's right i'm on board and by the way even if you don't want to do that that's cool too yeah that's true like i like like yo there's parking attendants that i look forward to seeing every day because when i see them they screaming my name. I scream their name. Some of them might be singing songs. They might be talking to me about stuff that we was talking about on the air. Those are the people I like to talk to. What do we know? We've been doing... I like talking to working class people because, yeah, I still consider myself a working class person.

1:11:18Charlamagne Tha God:I just do a different line of work. But I used to work at Taco Bell. I did telemarketing. I worked at a clothing store. Me and my now wife used to work at a clothing store in the mall when we was you know teenagers i did all of those things but you really get to see what's going on in the world when you have conversations with working class people they're the ones that can help you keep your your boots on the ground let's say we got we got one of them listening right now and they get to listen to you and they come to the end of this podcast and you get to send them off like what are you saying to the person who's on their climb figuring it out what would be the advice you would give them today or the thought that you would leave them with the first thing I would say to them is thank you.

1:11:58I am grateful that you decided to listen to the Cody Sanchez podcast with Charlemagne to God. Thank you. And thank you for, you know, whatever it is that you're doing every day that makes our lives, you know, better. And yeah, I would tell them, and the reason I'm saying thank you is because I would tell them, you know, make sure that they have an attitude of gratitude as well. Because man, when you wake up every day and you are genuinely grateful for where you are like you say god thank you man god i'm so thankful and grateful to be number one just alive but then number two to be able to do what it is that i'm i'm currently doing you will constantly get blessed with more i think that is what truly makes an individual happy right when you have true gratitude for where where you are in life you know at the moment.

1:12:52Like you can't wake up every day and hate what it is that you do.

1:12:55Charlamagne Tha God:If you wake up every day and hate what it is that you do, please change what it is that you do. Like you have to, like you cannot wake up every day and hate what it is that you do because you're going to project that negative energy onto everybody. Like yo, don't be the garbage man with an attitude, right? Don't be the person working at the fast food restaurant with the attitude. And same goes for us. Like if I wake up every morning with a negative attitude, I'm going to get on that radio and I'm going to project that onto the people. And trust me, I've been that before. I've been in that space where I've been that before.

1:13:28Charlamagne Tha God:And God had to remind me quick, I can take this away from you. You do know that, right? I can take this away from you in two seconds. So you asked for this. You prayed for this. This is what you wanted. This is what you worked hard towards. How dare you come up here every morning and project what you got going on, you know, negatively to the people. That's one of the reasons I started going to therapy. And when I started going to therapy back in 2016, I would literally come on the radio and tell everybody that I'm going to therapy every Friday at three o 'clock. I started talking to the people about what it was I was dealing with because I owed that to them.

1:14:07Charlamagne Tha God:They can't turn on the radio and hear me going off on somebody or hear me maybe badgering somebody in an interview. I'm like, damn, why is this person doing it? Why is he coming like that? It might be entertaining to some. Some might be like, what is up with this dude? I started to go do the work on myself because I wasn't happy with what was going on with me internally. And so me coming on the radio and expressing that, you know, to other people and tell people I'm going to therapy and trying to get a handle on my anxiety and bouts of depression and things like that. That became a whole movement of its own.

1:14:41Charlamagne Tha God:And that just started with me being honest with my listeners and not wanting to take for granted the blessing that God had gave me because I know he could take it away from me in a heartbeat. And that was 2016. So that was six years in The Breakfast Club. We still here nine years later. I continue to grow. I continue to evolve. So clearly, you know, I did something right. Last thing for you, like, what are you, what should people be following you on this year? I know you're working on a million things, but like, where should they be? Where are you like, I'm fucking excited. Tune into this, people.

1:15:16Thank you. Yes. Thank you for that. Well, the Breakfast Club is coming to Netflix this year. Yeah. So, you know. That's sick. So open up your TV. Open up your TV. Yeah. Like right now, if you can go to Netflix right now, type in Breakfast Club and you'll see it pop up. I think they say the video podcast start on January 26th. So you can set your reminders for that. And I mean, you know, a lot of people are having conversations about, you know, Netflix and they're saying Netflix is trying to compete with YouTube. I don't think Netflix is necessarily trying to compete with YouTube. I just think Netflix is doing what all of these, you know, screaming platforms are doing.

1:15:48Let's bring on content that people want to watch and let's just see if we can, you know, get as many eyeballs over here and have them, you know, spending their time and attention, you know, with us. So I just think, you know, it's dope for the podcasting game to see where podcasting has grown and where it's evolved to where, you know, a premium network like Netflix wants to have us on. And, man, I just hope to do more of that. Like, you know, I want to like sitting here talking to you. You have a hit podcast. But what else does Cody Sanchez want to do? Cody Sanchez might have a scripted show in mind based off her life or something.

1:16:23Cody Sanchez might want to do documentaries. Those are the things that I'm thinking about with all of these screaming platforms. You know, Netflix has gotten the game in a real way. I think Apple should follow suit. I think Peacock should follow suit.

1:16:36Charlamagne Tha God:I think Amazon should follow suit and just tap in with us. Right. These new media personalities who, you know, have a lot of different content and IP that we can bring to the table. So that's one thing. No Breakfast Club on Netflix. I also have a book in print called Black Privilege Publishing and 2026 is going to be a huge year for us because we have Arsenio Hall's memoir I fucking love him yeah which comes out in April he's been one of my entertainment inspirations forever you know I have four huge entertainment inspirations it's Jay-Z, Clarence Avant a radio personality named Petey Green God Bless the Dead and Arsenio Hall and so it's like a privilege to be publishing his memoir so that comes out in March I believe but you can pre-order his book now.

1:17:25My man 2 Chainz you know who you should actually have on this podcast because his business mind he is a very very astute businessman. One of my business ventures which is the Crystal franchises that me and my wife have in South Carolina I got into them because of 2 Chainz. What is a Crystal franchise? Crystal is a burger spot. Oh sick. Yeah, so they serve like little sliders. So they're like the down south White Castle. And so, yeah, he has a role at Crystal. And my man Lil Duval, I saw him one day. Because Duval does this thing in his community called Duval Day. And I saw him with all these Crystal burgers.

1:18:03And I'm like, damn, I ain't see Crystal in a minute. Where you get Crystal from? And he was like, yo, you know, 2 Chainz is working with them now. So I reached out to Chainz and my guy Technique, that's 2 Chainz's partner, and they plugged me right in with my man, you know, Jonathan Childs, you know, who owned the Crystal franchise. So me and my wife ended up doing six of them. Salute to my guy, Billy, as well. And so we got 2 Chainz book coming out. The Voice in My Head is God. That comes out in April. My co-host, Jess Hilarious, you know, on The Breakfast Club, she has a book coming out called Tell Death Do We Parent.

1:18:32It's a co-parenting book. That comes out this year as well. And we have some other ones that we haven't announced yet, so I can't announce them. But those three we've already announced, so you can go pre-order those wherever you buy. Let's do it. Because pre-orders are so important. It's like, I don't think people realize, like, if you like one, you know, if you like Arsenio, if they like you, if they like Jess, like, the best thing, it's such a gift to do a pre-order because all the publishing nonsense you got to get through. So hopefully you guys go buy some of those books.

1:18:59Charlamagne Tha God:Pre-orders are important, but I think that they're a tad, I'm not going to say they're a tad bit overrated. I think the publishing company puts a little too much emphasis on them. Yeah. Because people buy in the moment, you know? People want to buy, like, right now. What about you get New York Times? Like, the shenanigans I had to go through. I was like, don't buy now. Wait three seconds. Only from this spot. It's fucking crazy town. My second book, I'm not doing any of that. I care about selling books more than I care about the list. Because the list is all politics. You know that. I can't believe they let me on there.

1:19:28I thought for sure. No, Main Street millionaire title about boring businesses, making money. That's what people want. Yeah. But they don't, I don't think.

1:19:37Charlamagne Tha God:I'll drive myself crazy worrying about stuff like that. Seriously. Because I don't know how it works. Like, you know, it's all politics with, you know, all of those lists. So I just want people to go out there and buy the books, learn something, you know, from the books, most importantly, because all of those different books serve, you know, different purposes. Arsenio Hall's memoir is just for anybody who grew up on Arsenio and, you know, wants to see the ins and outs of Hollywood in the 90s and why he made the decisions that he made, because what he was doing was groundbreaking and revolutionary back then.

1:20:07So if you ever woof, woof, woof, woof, you're going to love that book. 2 Chainz is literally the voice in my head is God. So it's like a spiritual book that shows you, you know, why he made the moves that he made, you know, from child to, you know, now as an adult. And, you know, Jess's book is about co-parenting. It's literally about how her and her, you know, her first baby's father, you know, had a healthy co-parenting relationship.

1:20:33Charlamagne Tha God:So we got a lot of different books for a lot of different people. I can't wait to read them. Absolutely. Charlotte, man, the God. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Cody. It's amazing. Absolutely.

1:20:46We are sitting on a generational wealth creation event. If you're here, this means you're a builder. As we're going through these next three days, I want you to know that the American dream starts with you guys by our little Main Street revolution. And then I just want to give you guys permission to take a leap of faith. If I knew then what I know now, I would probably do bigger deals. It's given us an extra layer of security that we never would have had. I am so excited to introduce you to some ordinary people doing extraordinary things. We have to really take the time to make a meaningful connection.

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