#94 Broke to Billionaire: How to Turn a Sidehustle Into Your Salary | Allison Ellsworth

22:58One, they think that sounds scammy, like how could you get other people's money? What do you mean? Two, it's like, oh, that's only for rich people. Three, it's like, well, I don't know that I could do it because I've never given somebody money. So how could somebody else? It's all these first wallet problems. How do you pitch someone to get them to give you your money, their money? You know, I think it's a few things. You actually have to have a business plan. A lot of people do not want to invest in an idea. And you have to also know where that money is going. There's nothing more that irks me when someone says, I want you to invest in my brand.

23:31I'm like, what are you going to use it for? And they can't answer that question. You know, look, I'm open to all sorts of things. I've had people say, I want to clean up my cap table. I want to invest it in marketing and people and headcount. POs coming in, look, there's not necessarily a wrong answer. You just kind of need to know. And then once you like dig in, you want to do your DD on the, on the due diligence, but like you actually have to like know what you're talking about, know the numbers. And that was a big thing going on being a shark this time that I learned. There's a lot of entrepreneurs that came in and they didn't know where their money was.

24:02And I'm like, you're going to go on a national TV show and not know where the$700 ,000 lives on your P &L, like know your stuff. And if you don't know it, hire someone, do a fractional, like be scrappy, figure it out. And, and I think if you can do that and you can sell, then comes the dream, sell the dream, but you kind of have to unfortunately have a business plan. So what did it sound like when you first pitched Poppy and you got people to invest in you? What was your pit? Did you have a 30 seconder? Yeah. So, Hey sharks. No, we had done about 500 ,000 in revenue. We were a different company called Mother Beverage, like I said.

24:40And we just had a great story. I was very passionate about it. We actually had some traction. We had some sales, right? It wasn't something that wasn't. We also were already in Whole Foods. So originally in the early days, we had Whole Foods come by our booth and they were like, you guys need to be in Whole Foods. And that was really an aha moment too, of you have a business. So we had a retailer, we were going into Sprouts on top of it. So we kind of like, we were like a real business. We were a baby, little baby business. So I think a lot of people, I have a lot of people that DM me now and they want a lot of my time.

25:14And it's tough because I don't have so much time and I have three children at home and I'm working on other projects and doing different things. And there's nothing once again, that irks me more is someone saying, Hey, I have an idea. I would love to jump on a call with you. And I'll be like, is that all? Like, like you want me to build your business for you? Like you want me to just tell you, like, you know what I mean? It's, it's a tough, it's, it's tough out there. But I think it's actually good that you say that because so many people are like PC nonsense on here and they just want everybody to feel like they're nice and not tell them the truth.

25:46And people who are trying to build it, they need the truth. Like, Hey, you will not get an investor to take you seriously like that. Don't waste my time because that will not lead to you getting more of money. So I think it's actually really good that people say this, especially women and big women founders, because sometimes we're too nice. I know. It's a problem. Yeah. You probably weren't always that nice when you were growing. You were like, I don't have time for this or this or this because I got to do what needs to be done in the business. Your life is so ingrained when you have business and kids and you're grinding.

26:14And then you get to the point where they feel like, well, you don't have time for me. It's like, I don't have time for myself. Right. And so it's not personal, it's business and it's affects people. For me, my family is incredible. They're one of the biggest supporters. I would not have survived my pop years without my husband's. We're very blessed in that. But to your point, the friend thing's hard and I have so much love for him, but it's really hard. You work with your husband. I do too. So hats off to you. I'm a big, big fan of like a family business. I don't know who talked us out of the idea that family business was always bad.

26:50But how important is your partner to you? Like how important is it the person that you choose as your husband or your spouse? Yeah. I mean, I think it's more important than they say, like you get into marriage with business leaders or investors and stuff. But if you don't have like that core, I don't know, like healthy marriage at home, like if your home life's a mess, then like you're not going to show up right and be able to be successful. And it's interesting because me and my husband started this together. I get all the recognition for Poppy, right? And so to even have a strong man to allow to live in that situation, I will say, you know, we've talked about it and he's like, yeah, it'd be nice if I had more recognition, but like we're having success and we're building something that's going to last for generations.

27:38Like it's a true partnership. And we know we're working towards the same goal has been really core to our success. But I'll be honest, now that we're on the other side of it and we're doing kind of like our own thing, this is the first time ever we haven't worked together like day in, day out. And so it's been an interesting, like how we do this? Like, where are you going? How, like I usually like am sitting next to him in the office or doing something. So it's like a whole new wave and it's actually kind of fun, exciting. We're finding hobbies. It's like this whole new world of what I think probably marriage should have been, not like so crazy, like every date night at Poppy.

28:14So I just think it's so important. And then to find someone that lifts you up and like understands your values, because I am a very successful woman and a lot that can bother a lot of men. Right. And he's just supported me through that. I don't know. Would you say you guys have similar values? Yeah. I mean, I think I got lucky. He is a former Navy SEAL. So he never really cared that much about money. He was like, we weren't even playing the same game. There was no competition between the two of us because he really cared about service. That's still really important to him. He cares about like, really, am I doing something that matters?

28:48That's super important to him. He needs to feel like needed and respected. And I like the game of business. So I was like, no, I want to build something big. And like, who cares if they respect me? I want to do, you know? And so the two of us together, I think that worked well. But if it wasn't for him, I do think it would have been really hard to build alone. I wouldn't be like, Poppy would not be here today if like we hadn't done it together. Hands down. I could not have done it alone. It's just, yeah, it's tough. And that's why we say, like, it might not be your husband in business, but having a co-founder is special.

29:21And even if they're not a co-founder, just like the first two employees, like whatever it is, that community keeps you sane. Buddy system. I like it. Do you think that you can become a really successful billion dollar CEO and still have all the same friends, do all the same things you did previously, have work-life balance. Is that possible? No. You know, and I think people need to hear that. And I think people also need to hear, it's okay if you're a workaholic, if you love it. I think women get that a lot too, is like, well, why don't you want to be home more and do all this and like have a spa day and do those things?

29:57It's like, because I would rather be at work and And that's okay. It's when it's burnt out, you don't like it and you don't love it. You should take a break and you should take care of yourself. That's not what I'm saying, but there's this stigma of you should have balance, but like, I don't want balance. I thrive in chaos. I'm obsessed without balance. Right. And so, and that's okay. And I don't think a lot of people talk about that. As long as you're mentally okay, I'm not saying don't take care of yourself. I don't know. How do you act with that type of thing? The same. Somebody at my trainer this morning asked me, like, what are your hobbies?

30:26I was like, that's funny. Hobbies? I don't have time for hobbies right now. I got a hobby and it's called the business. And I hobby it all day from like six to nine, you know, like that's about what we do. And you love it. And I'm thrilled. Yeah. I wouldn't have to, I wouldn't do it if I, I mean, there are parts of every day I don't like, if I'm super honest. There's at least some part of every day that I'm like, fuck my life. This is really hard, but there's more of the day that I really like. And so I can't imagine doing anything else. And I find it totally uninteresting if I'm honest. Yeah.

30:57Um, that means you still love it because now I'm on the other side where we're, we've transitioned to advisors on Poppy. I'm still heavily involved in the creative and marketing, but I picked up golf and I'm obsessed, but it's a 180, but it's almost like I'm taking lessons three times a week. I, and it's a hobby I can do with my husband, which we've never had hobbies together because Poppy was our hobby to your point. So it's interesting now being on the other side, but I'm almost just as intense with this and like, when I get it perfect, it's not like, let's go play golf. You're breaking golf clubs.

31:29So everything I do. Yeah. Everything I do is a little bit intense. Yeah. I like that. You know what else I think is really interesting about you? It seems like you never gave up your feminine look, your long hair, great makeup. Do you think that women need to change the way they look to be taken seriously? You know, it's interesting. Look, I've always loved to be a girly girl. I grew up like dancing and with makeup and it's so funny. I just never thought I had to change, I guess, to your point. I don't think so. I think especially now within tech and beverage and, and CPG, like showing up even in sweatpants, like I'm okay with that.

32:05If my employees are at work in sweatpants, because like, who cares if they're working and they're performing, let them be them. There's many a time I've gone to a board meeting and sweatpants and, and, or in a suit, right? It's like however I felt that day that was like my personality. And I'm seeing that shift, honestly, in the business world, maybe not like in the banking world and finance. That's when I go to like New York and everybody from Goldman to JP to, you're just like, you guys put the suit away. Dude, I fell into that too. I cut my hair super short when I started in banking and I have really thick hair.

32:43So I just look like a mushroom. I mean, it was horrifying for everybody involved. Oh, my God. Put a picture up on the... No. It's probably out there somewhere. But I think I really felt like this is what a businesswoman looks like. And now I'm not so sure that being attractive is not actually really an unfair advantage too. And being feminine is actually kind of an unfair advantage because not a lot of billion dollar CPG founders look like you. You should do you. And it's what I feel comfortable in, you know what I mean? Like I like it. And it's, it's the beauty of being a founder too. You can kind of do whatever the fuck you want.

33:18The best part. Literally the best part. Is it also true? I was reading, I don't know, on your website or somewhere that you got Post Malone, Hailey Bieber, Kylie Jenner, Billie Eilish, Russell Westbrook. I actually don't know who that is. JLo, Olivia Munn to either invest or partner with you. So it's interesting. Yes and no. So So we are what we call like celebrities' favorite soda, culture's favorite soda, college's favorite soda. Like we really ingrain into like culture, music, lifestyle. We're really good at that. And so we have a really big motto at Poppy is we have unlimited samples. We send out 300 ,000 packages a year, like crazy, crazy amount of samples.

33:59Like I don't, that number is probably even higher now. And so our secret to success was keeping all of these celebrities stocked up. and I would say for two years, we stocked up Kylie Jenner, Stassi, her friend, all this stuff. And then it organically showed up one day in her TikToks and it just organically started becoming part of their lives. Same thing with like Haley, we stocked her stuff with no, like, we didn't ever ask for them to post, do anything. And then it organically, she got papped with it all over LA. Right. So I think a lot of people are like, well, they don't want to invest in that because they don't see the ROI.

34:33It's a longer burn ROI on it. And it's just like hoping and praying. Now, someone like JLo, love JLo, found out she was a big fan. We reached out, we did end up working with her. And then with Post Malone, same. He was like on a couple of podcasts just talking about how he had to give up soda because it was so bad for him. And I found out it was because he had discovered Poppy. So we organically did a partnership with them. So it's this thing where it's like a combination where we show up. I mean, like Pedro Pascal is like papped with Poppy. Like it's crazy. It's just so, it still like blows my mind every day.

35:06That is out of control. I mean, he is like sort of the it guy right now too. So does this mean that you go hang out with all of them? I wish. I will say I've become good friends with Olivia Munn. We did. She's, she was like one of our OG. She's the sweetie. She has kids. We have kids around the same age. And, um, she was like one of our first, first, she, um, is best friends with Rohan's right hand, Stevie, and they became friends and she invested really early, like one of the first, and she was such a good partner. She posted us, she got papped with it. She organically just like loved it. And so, you know, when you get like a good partnership like that, you do kind of get close to them, which is fun.

35:44Yeah. Well, you're in the kind of the trenches of business together, which is, which is tough. What does get papped mean? Does that mean paparazzi? I'm so not cool. So funny. How about, let's talk about the other side. Like, have you ever had a really big disagreement or investor meeting or something go really sideways in your meeting? My dad calls them like your head in the hands in the middle of the night, no idea what to do next moments. You know, I think it's so funny. There's a lot of that. And I wish I would have journaled, I swear, where there was literally screaming, fighting, not knowing.

36:20But I think that it brings good resolution to have those moments. And, you know, one that I can kind of think of is our cans are actually direct printed, right? So they look like a regular can, they're printed. But when you start out in the early days, you do sleeved cans. And they're very expensive, but they're really pretty and they pop on the shelf. Right. And so there was a while where we were like fighting over, should we move to direct print? Cause it might not be colorful. It was like this whole thing. We didn't make time for it. It was like, so like it was just really dramatic. And then we finally made the switch and it saved us like$17 million that year.

36:56Like because the sleep cans are more expensive. So there's certain things where we're like, that was dumb. We should have done that earlier. The conflict got us there. It was like this whole thing. And then it finally made us a priority as the money pushed over the edge. So there's stuff like that, but I can't think of like a dragnet, I'm sure there's a lot of them. Don't get me wrong, but you like, I like love the good and the bad. I know. Yeah. It's funny when I wrote my book, I have, I have a guy I worked with, my editor, Charlie, who's amazing. If you ever write one, you should work with him.

37:20But he, he was really funny. He's like, you know what I've realized about a lot of founders? You guys have like a weird reverse amnesia. It's so true. And you, you do not actually, I literally was like, Charlie, I don't remember. I know that there's been times where I've been stolen from, lied to, cheated, dah, dah, dah. I literally cannot remember. So he would have to prime me with all of these, which maybe is like childbirth or something. They say you can't remember. Yeah. I was literally going to liken it to that. It's you have it and you're like, I'll never do that again. And then you find yourself pregnant in a year.

37:48But I still, I'm like, I don't know if I could do it again. But it's the same thing where people are like, are you going to start another company? I'm like, I'm absolutely could do it again. And they're like, but you just came off that. And it's, you just get the bug and it's so fun. And if you're having fun, like I said, then - Then you keep going. So what does it take to sell a company to Pepsi for like$1.95 billion? How does that even start happening? Yeah. So especially in beverage, there's literally three people that can buy you or you can go public. And the reason why you do want to partner with a strategic, in this case, it was Pepsi for us, is for, I want, like our mission at Poppy's to revolutionize soda for the next generation.

38:30I want it to be the soda my kids and grandkids know as soda. And the only way to do that is to get into more hands. And the best people that can do that is Pepsi through distribution. I mean, they have iconic branding systems in place, leadership, like so many good things that you can gain value on going into a system like that. And another example is like college campuses. They own all the big contracts on all of them. We could not actually be sold on the college campuses where the official soda of the Lakers, we could not be sold in the stadium. Right. And so it's these things that these big unlocks that you have.

39:06So for us, it was always a goal from Shark Tank to angle is to hopefully get on to like Pepsi's truck. Right. The American dream. Right. And so for us, it was kind of like always a goal. And then you just start dating. Right. So we had been talking to them for a while. you kind of have meetings, you go back and forth. And then we just had like a gangbusters growth. We had triple digit growth year over year. And it's at one point too, where you can get too big, where people don't want to acquire you. And we were just like, we're kind of in this interesting sweet spot. We'd been talking to them and they just seemed like it was just the right timing.

39:46You almost like don't know because you're like, is it too soon? Is it too late? but they ended up giving us such an incredible offer. And then they, they guaranteed all of our employees could stay on and they could keep poppy poppy. And so we're like this subsidiary still within the system, but we're still running as like the poppy engine. And so for me, it was like kind of check, check, check. And so between, you know, us as founders and the board and the senior leadership, we all just like in our guts felt like it was right, the right time. And it was like cohesive. We all felt it. Nobody was like, no, you know, cause if one person's off, there's doubt and it cast doubt.

40:20And so we were like, if we all feel good, then this is probably the right time. How long do you think you had to start talking to people about this acquisition before it went through? And like, did you have a strategy about that? Were you like, hey, I want to build these relationships. So one day when we need it, we're already going to be warm. Well, the good news with Rohan, our shark, he had just been in beverage for a long time. He had sold multiple companies. He had great relationships. Our CEO, Chris, had been in beverage for 30 years, had great relationships. So that goes to the piece of like, yes, we had a great story with me and Steven, our founders, but we also had a great team around us to help guide us through that.

40:55And it was so fun to like go through it now. I'm like, oh man, I want to do that again. You know, I think there are a lot of people listening and we've realized one thing in particular lately, David and I, that a lot of people don't know how to communicate with authority. Like they would not know how to stand up in the room with Pepsi and express what they want, or even how to come on a podcast and be taken seriously. I'm curious for you, do you think there are mechanisms to be taken more seriously in the way that you speak, maybe especially as a female CEO? Well, you know, for me, it's always been a little bit harder as a woman to be taken serious in a room full of men, right?

41:33Especially in beverage, I'm the only female founder of an exit of this size ever, right? And so especially in beverage, it's like a heavily male dominated thing. But the one thing I will say is the team embraced my vision and crazy versus pushed it away. And so I'm very blessed with that because I've heard absolute horror stories. I've heard stories of people being like, they want me to change my clothes. I can't have fun anymore. I was just like, you started this company for a reason, believe in yourself. And so I always just tell myself that anytime I'm going in somewhere into a big meeting, it's like, I did this, none of them started a company.

42:10They've gotten behind us in this, but I did this and I deserve to be here versus as a female in the room, I can't, no, I'm not putting myself into that box. And I, once again, goes back to support system. My husband is always my biggest cheerleader and being, he, he was obviously in a lot of those meetings as well. And so it's like a little bit comforting to have like your, your team and your cheerleaders behind you. But I was challenged a swat a lot through the years. And I've even had other people say, you've changed the way I lead because I thought it had to be a different way and you showed me different.

42:44So it's like growth on both ends. Do you ever remember somebody in particular saying to you, like, you're not going to make it, no chance? You know, it goes back to probably that amnesia. If they did, I'd probably blocked it out. Whatever, bitch, scoreboard. Literally, like I'm a forever optimist. You can tell me, and look, I've cried. I, my ego has been her over the years. I've been in a room where people don't understand my value. And that's honestly harder is when people don't recognize your value when you're doing amazing things and they're bringing you down because you're shining. That's honestly a harder place to be when people are trying to bring you down because they don't understand your value than, than the other.

43:26But I do think it's ever evolving. You get really thick skin as an entrepreneur. Wouldn't you say? Yeah. Now I kind of giggle. I'm like, put that other chip on the shoulder there. Got a few of them, light them up. And I think a lot of people don't get help as entrepreneurs. So yes, I know people talk about mental health and therapy, but what was more successful for me was a business coach. Yeah. That's a great, I totally agree. Like tactical as opposed to let's go back to your trauma when you were two. Exactly. And it was like, okay, here's your problem. how are we gonna win? And it's such a better mindset for me as an entrepreneur to your point.

44:03And then looking back on my childhood, I was like, I forgot about that. Like I'm onto the next. You know, I always say like, reach out, find someone that can help you, get a business coach, talk to people, build on that. And like, it's okay to get help too. Half the time, a lot of people think you have to hold it in and do it all yourself. Sometimes it's hard to stop because it's go, go, go. Oh my God, I'm so excited. Our annual event, M-SALS, come out. This event just hits different. It sells out every year. It is in person. There's a couple hundred of us that all get together. So make sure you get your ticket now if you want to.

44:34What is this event about? Well, if you want to hang out with like billionaires, if you want to hang out with millionaires, but also plumbers and secret agents, and also some of the biggest names in government and policy today, you're going to want to be here. Let me tell you some of my favorite, some of my favorite little comments about this event. My friend Sam Parr says, this event is legit. We had a spy, a billionaire, and a hedge fund manager hanging out with a plumber. What? Another one, Nick Huber said, honestly, it's too good. You need to raise the price to this thing. No, I will not, Nick.

45:08Pace says, whatever you do, don't come. If you don't want to meet Navy SEALs, buy businesses, make more money, or hang out with fellow psychopath owners. MSAUS is my favorite event because we break things down live. We do workshops to figure out business buying, but we're also going to hear from like, I don't know if you're into billionaires like Joe Lonsdale, maybe you want to hear from like a special surprise guest I can't even tell you about. And you also want to hear like, how do you buy your first garbage truck and turn it into a million dollars a year? That's Spencer who will teach you that.

45:37Anyway, tickets are out right now. You're going to want to get them. It's in Austin, Texas. It is going to be so legit. I can't wait to meet all of you guys there. All right. See you at M-Sows. Oh, it stands for Main Street over Wall Street, by the way. It's not like M-Sows or cows or anything. It's about Main Street over Wall Street. Dates, November 2nd through 4th. And just so you know, due to personal reasons, we're going to be turning it up a fucking notch this year. What would you tell somebody who's in a room where they're not being valued or respected? How do you flip the switch on that?

46:07Okay. One of the hardest things to do is to walk away and let them figure it out without you. So in that moment, it is not going to serve you to be angry, to lash out, to speak your mind, because they're not listening to you already in the first place. So something that was a really hard lesson that I've had to learn in my career is, okay, well, if you don't love my value, then do it yourself. One of two things are going to happen. They're going to succeed without you. And if it's your business, in the end, that's a good thing, right? That means you were probably holding on. Or two, they're going to understand that value and ask you to come back and help.

46:43But you getting angry, you freaking out, making a scene, letting your ego get in the way. Now there's also opportunity later on to have a one-on-one and have a conversation outside the room. If it really is bothering you and something was said and you're like, that was really disrespectful, don't do it in the front of everyone. Have a one-on-one because then half the time they'll probably realize it, have a normal conversation and it'll get fixed. But a lot of people want to like school someone in person. It's like, that's not a good look either. Yeah. So what does that sound like? So afterwards, if you feel like you've been disrespected and you want to circle around and have a conversation to fix that, what do you say?

47:20I mean, you're literally be real. Tell them how you feel, you know, in a respectful, kind, calm thing, right? Like, hey, you literally shot down my idea in front of the entire team. I would really appreciate if you didn't do that because half of the stuff that we're doing in this brainstorm, for example, is throwing crazy ideas out. And that's part of this process. And you doing that undermined me in front of the team. It also, you can see it on people's faces when they don't see your value, like the teammates. Like I've had people say stuff and you can sign to see them like, like it's uncomfortable.

47:56And so, Hey, like, let's just, you know, work on that. And like, how do you feel about it? Right. Like here, their side of it too. So I think people don't like conflict. They don't like talking about things. And honestly, if you're going to be a good leader and a business man or woman, you have to be able to hit conflict as it happens, not two weeks later because it manifests. So true. Like focus less on exactly what you say and just go, go say the thing and then you'll get more used to it. And those repetitions will lead to like better rhyming as you continue to get, to get reps. Yeah. And I think with value, it's so funny because you usually move through stages of you're angry, you're sad.

48:31And then to me, then you need to move to building to fix it. Right. So it's like a normal emotion people go through and it's like, okay, now I always want to kind of get to that third stage really quick. I'm like, okay, you pissed me off. You hurt my feelings, but now how are we going to fix it and like go to problem solving? It's really hard for people to do that though, to get that space. Cause staying in that angry and hurt phase, like sometimes it feels better. And it's very easy to just go around and sort of continue to tell that story to everybody too. Guess what happened to me? I'm a victim.

48:59I totally get that. What about, what, you know, do you use different self-talk? Like, do you say words to yourself? Like I'm stressed, I'm anxious. I'm this. What does the voice in your head sound like as a billion dollar founder? I'm tired. I'm tired. I have three boys. I have a problem. I don't say no to anything. And I don't take time for myself to just do anything. So for me, it's mostly I'm tired, but it's always I can do it. And I rarely say I don't get anxiety like hardcore. I'm sure I probably do, but it's not, everyone has it. Right. So I'm not saying I'm, I'm not, but I do wish I could sleep better.

49:46I would tire. Like you're, you're just going to be tired. Like, I don't know how to explain it. And so like, even tonight I'm like, I'm going to go home. I wouldn't watch movie and go to bed at nine. It was a long week. And then tomorrow I'll wake up and be like, wow, I feel so much better. I know a hundred percent. Yeah. Well, one of my favorite mentors said, do you want to give up or do you just need a nap? And I was like, I need a fucking nap. You're right. I'm sorry. That's such good advice. Sleep is a beautiful thing that can just make you feel better. And it's so crazy. It's so simple, but I love it when people are like, give me the recipe to that.

50:13And I'm just like, get some sleep. Yeah. That's so true. Yeah. One of my other, I was at church the other weekend and the pastor had such a good saying. He was like, you know, sometimes it's really hard. They're kind of these young guys. They're here. It's called Red Rocks. Have you ever heard of it? No, no, no. We go to Austin Ridge Bible. Okay. I've gone there too, which I love also. I like this Red Rocks crew because it's in a movie theater, a converted movie theater. They're like four, maybe sub 33 year old guys, super young, young families. And they're just building a church for the first time ever.

50:41You're watching them do it live. I love something about like that young hustle. I just like respect the hell out of it. So anyway, so sometimes I go, I went to church that day and he said this line that was so good. He's like, well, there's the guy who's sort of the head pastor, then this one that was speaking. and he's like, you know, it's hard. So sometimes, you know, even though we have this big mission and I have all this faith, I want to give up. And he's like, so I'll, you know, there's been many a night where I've called the head pastor and said, you know what? I just can't do this anymore.

51:10I'm sorry, I quit. And his response is so good. And he's had to say it to me a few times, which is no problem, quit tonight. I'll see you tomorrow morning. That is so good. Isn't that good? Yeah, it's like, just get some sleep. Just get some sleep. Sleep, come back. So I'm totally going to use that because I do think sometimes we talk ourselves into all of the work nonstop. And we think about how hard something will be instead of how great it will be when we hit it. And that's really an easy way to talk yourself out of all the things you want in life. And time will really help. If something's like really hard to your point, like put it aside, give it some time and then revisit it.

51:47And it usually isn't as hard. Yeah. At the end of the day. It's so true. So what about if you had to pick sort of, you're looking at all these new young yous potentially at Shark Tank and you're looking across their skill set and you're like, all right, I know that the best entrepreneurs, they need three skills. Like what are the top three skills that every good entrepreneur needs? I mean, hustle, of course, willing to learn, grow and partner. So it's that collaboration and then doing it at least at the beginning that they love the passion because I know you said like passion needs to turn into profit, but if someone is starting a business to get rich, it's to me not the best recipe for success.

52:34So you need to have that passion for whatever you're for those nights you want to quit because you'll probably get into a situation where you want to quit. And if you're just doing it for the money, you'll probably quit. Yeah. It's a good point. Do you think you could be just as passionate about any business now that you've run Poppy? Like, are you just passionate about the game of business or are you passionate about soda? You know, I wish I didn't know as much as I know now, right? Because back then I had no fear. I didn't know anything about beverage. I mean, beverage is a beast. You're literally shipping water.

53:06And it's a very capital intensive category. So for me, it's like, yes, if I'm looking at it, right, beauty has really great high margins. Supplements have high margins, right? Something I know I won't want to do is run a DTC company because they usually cap out about 250 million, but I know all these things. So then my head, when I'm thinking about what I'm doing next, I'm like going through check, check, check. Whereas before I hadn't, I didn't know any of that. And so yes, but now with the knowledge, I think passion is almost key because I don't want to, I don't, I don't sound bad. I don't need the money anymore.

53:41I mean, look, I love to make money. I want to continue to grow. I want to do a business. It's those things, but it's like, I need to find something I'm passionate about to then willing of my time. Right. Because I sacrificed 10 years of my life. It turned out incredible for Poppy and you know, you wouldn't can call it sacrifice, but you like, I worked hard. So it has to be special and the founder has to be right. And then, or I want to do it myself again. Yeah. Do you think you will eventually do another one? I think so. You know, it's pretty new and I'm still pretty invested in Poppy and my time.

54:11And, you know, I really want to see the success and it be successful in the Pepsi system. So it's hard. I haven't quite let go of that. And I think once I finally get it to where my baby's at college and it's good and she's moved in and she's like working on her own. I think that it will be, but I do think I have another one in me. Yeah. I mean, it's actually pretty wild how fast that thing has grown with how young you are too. That is definitely not normal. What about, you know, was it hard to take away complete control of Poppy? Like, did you have a moment where you're like, God, I shouldn't have done that.

54:47Or I need to go on an ayahuasca retreat or something in order to get comfortable with this. It's really hard because something, you know, I made a choice early on to put my face attached. So I'm the face of Poppy is me. I am Poppy. Like I'm very attached to the brand where some people will have a very successful business and not a lot of people know who the founder is, right? I'm very public facing. So I'm very connected to it. So it's almost like, what do I do now? And I will say that has been a little bit hard and it's like, you don't sell your house and then keep a key and tell them where to put the curtains and the couches.

55:22Right. So it's, it's definitely a growth period that I'm, I'm going through. And, and even in the past, like for example, it was me and my husband, we knew pretty early on, we didn't know everything. and it was that ego piece of, it was really hard, but we brought in expertise. I was running the marketing and I stepped down from running the marketing and just moved over to just run the creative and we brought in a traditional CMO. Like there was like times along the way that we kind of let go control during slowly during the steps. So then when it was this time, it was just, it felt good, but it's still hard.

55:58It's only human. Do you have any secrets to hiring great execs or leaders? Like what have you realized? Obviously, you know what your top performers look like, but how could you tell like this person versus that person could be in charge of the entire marketing of your business? That's a big role. I think culture is a huge piece. So someone - Do you do anything weird to check if they are culture fit? Do you make them like pound poppies or what? I know, right? Yeah. People are always like, did you give them homework? I'm like, yeah, you can give someone homework, but it still isn't like a culture, like personality, the working values.

56:32So we had like three values at Poppy. It was like, do you keep it real? Can you have real conversation? Can you do something really creative and disruptive? And then are you collaborative? And so, and then obviously the hardworking on top of it, but for me, the creative piece was really big. So someone might say in finance, like, how are you creative finance? I was like, our finance team was potentially the most creative because to make sure we didn't go out of stock and like keeping the wheels on the bus and raising like that, you have to be very creative to really scale a business as quickly as we scaled, right?

57:05Same with the ops team and the sales team and, you know, all of these things. So when I speak to creativity, it's not just on the marketing side, which I think is really important. I hate to say this, but stealing from other companies, like where you are networking and you're seeing someone else baller, balling out and like them being, you're like, I need that person. Because, you know, there are instances where people are on the market and they're looking and like a business one out of business, you know, like, but Food and Bev is very small community of people that really know what they're doing and you kind of know them all.

57:36No, I think you got to go hunt your top talent. I wish you didn't, but every single one of my top performers, we have stalked and then eventually bothered enough to where they decided to say yes. I'm glad you're saying the same thing. I wish, I wish your answer was different. You're like, it's just this website. But you know what? It's different for lower level. A hundred percent. You know what I mean? I was really big on pulling from other verticals like beauty and fashion and young. And at one point we were like 65 % female at Poppy because it was like part of our DNA from senior leadership down.

58:11And it was, we found like hiring women was really good. We found like certain like fun little hacky things, but we were very young, hired young, like very Gen Z forward. And it's like, those are the people that understand the culture, especially like on the marketing and creative side. Yeah. The creative thing is actually really, really clever. What did you say exactly? You said like, what was the second value at Poppy about creativity? So we keep it real. We are creative disruptors and we do it better together. Yeah. So you were saying like, when have you creatively disrupted something? Is that one of the questions you would like?

58:46How could you tell if they were a creative? Totally. Exactly. And it's so funny. It's the simplest thing. Awesome. I'm like, what brands do you think are cool and creative and doing something disruptive right now? And if they can't name a single one or they say like, no offense, Gap just did that really cool campaign. So I can't even say Gap right now, but like ASICS or something, you know? And I'm like, you're like Costco's killing it. Yeah. You know, it's something like that. So you can really read a lot when people don't understand, but then it does like does a finance person or an officer need to do that.

59:18Right. But you'll be a better culture fit if you can actually, like my daughter is obsessed with, it doesn't have to be something you're obsessed with. It'd be like, I, so-and-so right. Like understanding like that piece was, was really interesting. And then like, it's the network piece of, you know, and the best people are the best people. And then poppy people wanted to work there. So we would put a, an application up and we would get like 10 ,000, 20 ,000 applications. It was very overwhelming. So we brought recruiting in-house, you know, we have, I think two to, three full-time recruiters depending on the vertical.

59:50And then the one piece that's really hard to recruit for is the creative side. Yeah. It's so hard. It's really hard because most people get into like creative worlds, like a graphic designer or creative directors, and they want to be creative. They don't want to manage people. And so, and do you really want them managing people? Right. And so you once can have to find those unicorns that can do both. And I feel like we, we have a killer team that can do both, but it is a lot harder to find. but it, you know, I, I accidentally almost snuck into your office that time when I was telling you about with the lease, cause the door was open, you know, when you come off the elevator or whatever.

1:00:22And, um, what I loved, I loved multiple things, but I loved that it looks like your cans, right. And you even have like a component of it, like the bright colors, you know, the shiny, like, it's just the whole thing is, um, it all matches. And so I can see how like deep your culture must run because, you know, when other people repeat your words back to you, when you're like headquarters also matches what it looks like online, I don't think people realize how hard that is. And to do it in a way that's not a caricature, right? Exactly. Yeah. Building a brand is really hard. It's easy to have a product.

1:00:55It's easy to have a business, but creating like a movement is really hard. And so honestly, with me transitioning out that and what you're saying makes me sleep at night because of the incredible team and they get it and they know the brand and they know culture and they're proud of Poppy. Right. So like that makes me like sleep better. But I will say it just was fun. Like we were just like a fun place. We grew quick. We were like a family. We were a business and brand first always. And I always say like create, like know who you are before you launch a brand, like do the work, understand your consumer.

1:01:32What are you saying? Who, who are you speaking to? Who's your creative consumer who actually drinks poppy. Like we knew we did a ton of brand work and brand house and who's our muse and all of those different things we worked really hard on. So we knew who we were before we scaled. Whereas a lot of people scale, they have a business and then you try to create a brand. It's a lot harder. It's so hard. And then to build a community once you're big, like it's just really hard. So we just kind of built community and brand from the beginning. It's so good. I mean, I'm obsessed with this idea of, I was listening to Elon Musk the other day talk about showmanship is salesmanship.

1:02:11And I loved that line because it is like, everything is kind of show business. It's all like, we call it magic moments here, but how can we have every single person who interacts with us feel like there's some little moment of magic? Not everything is, right? But like some moment where they're like, this is unexpected. I kind of think that customers can tell when you really care. And if you compare like that care, or if you can pair the caring with creativity, it's rare, you know, because it's a little hard to be creative and out there. That means you have to be a little weird. And that's a little scary being a little weird.

1:02:43And unhinged and cringy. Yeah. And so I love that. I'm going to bother the team. We were just talking about that in the meeting today. I was like, you know, we're having an event and we have this event every year. It's one of the biggest events we do. And I think it's one of our best give back things we do. But we were going to have this little pre-call. And then the way they were setting it up, I was like, oh, can you imagine going to a hotel you're excited to stay at? You get to the hotel and the lobby's dirty and it doesn't look like the hotel rooms that you saw online. Are you checking into that hotel?

1:03:17Are you like, I'm out of here. I saw the preview. I don't want to go to the main thing. And so I was like, we have to be so careful in every single moment. If they get a little taster of yours and it's been out in the sun and your third party logistics wasn't very good. And so now it tastes bad, like they're never going to buy Poppy again, right? One chance. Yeah. Right. Fascinating. Yeah. And it comes down to, we think of that in a lot of layers. So the first thing that gets the consumer's attention is our packaging in store. And we've spent so much time on this package. We have like a designer dedicated full-time to our packaging.

1:03:52And down to what do you say on the front? Colors, the fruits, we're designing a new flavor right now. I was just on a call yesterday with it. And like, how does it, is it literal? Is it illustrative? Like we're so, so like, that's our first line of defense of like the brand as a consumer. And to your point, if we throw an event for creators, it is so next level, but you know what, if we're actually getting together, I'm going next week, we're doing our national meeting. We're all getting together at Poppy. We create our employees like our creators. So they're going to show up to the hotel. They're going to have influencer bags in there.

1:04:26The events, we make them feel like they're at a poppy event that we would have done for a creator. And like, that's part of our culture is like, why would we treat our employees differently? And so we do kind of go all out with that stuff. And we, our marketing budgets are a lot higher than I think a lot of others on the brand building side and the culture side and the things just to allow us to do stuff like that and really treat our employees as well. Almost like, where did you learn that from? Like, why did you start doing that? You know, we were just forced to really do things differently with, with, within COVID.

1:04:57And I don't know. I just, I love people. I have like a good heart too with it. And, um, you just got to like reward the people that are working so hard for you. I don't know how to explain it. And then I will say the brand piece of it, it just kind of like came as we went. Um, we weren't afraid to listen to our consumer and change and, you know, always work on it. a lot of people think like, well, I figured that out three years ago. Like we're doing like brand work every three months and we're keeping the core of who we are. Um, we do a lot of it internally. Um, Stevie, who I talked earlier about with Rohan secondhand person, she's incredible and brand been working with brands.

1:05:40Like, so we bring in a lot of expertise. We have a great in-house quote unquote agency with like designers, art directors and stuff like that. So it's just an ongoing process. And I wouldn't even say it's like all me. It's like, it's just poppy. Yeah. Well, it's hard. I mean, I never thought brand mattered that much because I was in finance. I'm like, does the math math? You know, the spreadsheet where I was a spreadsheet girly. And so I didn't think it really mattered how you dressed or like what I, you know, makeup or anything about brand except like make it look trustworthy. That would have probably been my main thing.

1:06:14And then when I started having some consumer businesses and then being on the internet, I realized, oh my God, I have this so wrong. And that when you're maybe a more junior entrepreneur brand, it seems like, listen, I'm trying to pay rent brand. What are you talking about? Like I'm trying to just make it happen. But then if you want to get to the big leagues, the difference between poppy and some knockoff soda that somebody else is doing is your brand. Correct. That's where all the margin is, right? It's literally why we were acquired is our brand and our core audience of like, we are soda for the next generation and we've built it on a brand and a lifestyle.

1:06:49Like people match their makeup and their nails and their outfits to poppy cans. Yeah. And it's like, that is like unreal with it's, it's so funny. I'll go to conferences and I do all sorts of stuff. And one of my favorite things, and it might sound creepy at first, is I'll have older gentlemen come up to me and say, can I take a picture? and they'll say, it's for my daughter. My daughter is obsessed with you. I love Poppy, we love it in our household. And like, they're just as excited because their kids are doing something better. And it's like this movement and it's just so cool to see this type of movement happening.

1:07:23But I mean, it took us years to get there. We just invested in brand from day one. Our marketing budgets were way higher than they should have been. And honestly, I will say like, Like I have to give it to like Rohan and Stevie, like they're great brand builders. And like, I learned a lot from them, but it's just the team and just, it was just like, it was part of our culture. I don't know if that makes sense. 100%. You know what? Yeah. Now that I think about it, I have a dear girlfriend who has four little girls and two of them are obsessed with poppy. Now that, because I remember hearing about it from them.

1:07:55They live in Dallas. That's probably also another part of it. But they have like a poppy party or something. Is that a thing that little girls do? Yeah. And they have like different tasting when new ones come out. Yes. Whoa. Poppy parties. I mean, we have sororities during rush. They have a theme days and one of them be like poppy rush day. And they're like colored cans and orange and like so much so that we started seeing that trend online that this year we did customize sorority cans. God, that's good. With them. So we sent it and then it had their sorority on it. So they were posting it and it went absolutely viral.

1:08:28And like, that is a brand building initiative that has a higher ROI than doing a commercial because it's just part of the movement. And a lot of people wouldn't see that trend. They wouldn't invest in the cans and buy the licensing and do all that. But we just see like brand first, culture first, creative first. So smart. Yeah. Plus those ladies who do the dancing in front of the, God, I sound so old again, but like they do like at Mizzou or whatever. They're like all these hot young, young little sorority chicks out front and they get millions of views. That literally last year, we live here in Austin.

1:09:00I went to the Zeta house and I danced with them in front of the thing. Yeah, literally. I was like, this is going to be great content. Once again, putting myself out there. Are you a good dancer? I'm a pretty good dancer. Oh, yeah. I really wanted to see some Alex Earl. I was like a dance major in college for like a year before I realized like, what am I doing? But no, but this year we sent Alex to the campus and she went to home. Oh, I think I did see. So that was your activation. Yes. With her. Yeah. That's wild. Um, I swear I researched before this podcast, but you guys are kind of, we're kind of everywhere.

1:09:34And then I didn't even realize it was you that goes back to the 40 % household. Well, we have, it's so funny. We have someone on our team, Sophia, her title's VP of culture. And a lot of people might confuse that with HR. No, it's all things cultural. So it's an entire vertical that we have within Poppy. So it goes to influencer, the social, the events, the partnerships, like all things culturally in culture were poured up into her. And so like, that's how serious we take it. That is brilliant. And so you're kind of like always able to capture a trend or capture a movement and figure out how does Poppy become sort of a marquee portion of like what's happening right now.

1:10:15Are there other brands that do that well today? You know, everyone always is like, who do you look up to? Who would say it's so hard because we've literally built the playbook. Yeah. Like Duolingo had a moment, I feel like, where they were really doing that, but that's not so much now. Right. Yeah. I would say Duolingo did a good job online and with their mascot. I've always thought like mascots are a little cringy. I'll be honest, like people dressing up in cans and stuff is like weird to me, but it worked for them. Yeah, it really did. It was like a moment. Plus what else are you going to do with that?

1:10:45You have a beautiful can. You know, they're like, here's my app. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So, no, this has been a really hard question. And I've like always, the only people that I'm like obsessed with that move at the speed of culture, that they're huge and it's a billion dollar brand. Because it's really easy for like younger brands to like do stuff, be more nimble, but skims. Oh, yeah. Somehow they figure out market initiatives where they'll get like the white lotus cast in a campaign three months after it airs. And I'm just like to move that quick with such like a cultural moment is pretty impressive.

1:11:17Yeah. Those nipple bras were brilliant. so good, right? Yeah. She, you know what else I really respect about them? They do not give a fuck. They're like, do we win? We don't care what people think. I love, they're like businesswomen and people underestimate. And that's why I think it goes back to like where you can be in fashion and dress different and do things and put yourself out there and be a badass like businesswoman. Like you can have it all nowadays and be a mom and not be a mom. And you're right. Like you can kind of, it's, I really think this female movement is like our time now. Is it harder?

1:11:49Yeah, it's harder. But being an entrepreneur is hard. Yeah. Yeah. All hard. So just choose it. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I kind of want to end on, it's such a good point that you said about the Kardashian though, because we've been thinking about that lately. We did these like little photo shoots, but we've riffed on like iconic, um, like a kid. Remember Kim K when she was man of the year with the Cheetos bag. And then even like, even then I was like, oh, it's just slightly off. She's kind of making fun of it. Kind of not. It was so well executed. And then Taylor Swift, when she had the cat around her shoulders.

1:12:18So good. Do you remember that one? Yeah, everyone calls her the cat woman. Right. So she's like, yeah, what, you know, fucking time woman of the year, whatever. Yes. And so we did these little things and they really hit. And I was nervous about doing them because I thought, well, that means we're not very serious. Like, are they going to take, I've got a Cheetos bag. Why do I have a cat on my shoulders? But you kind of got to get over it. But it's almost going against the grain. Yeah. Of like what you guys are doing and it puts you out there and then you get eyes on it. And at the end of the day, you're winning when more people learn about what you're doing.

1:12:47It's win. As long as you're not doing something like, don't get canceled out there, but that's just going to get eyes on you and it's going to be fun. And you know what? If you're having fun doing it, do it. Yeah. Plus, I think a little inoculation against cancellation every year is fine. I try to throw out a few things that might get me canceled every year because then - Just on the edge. Yeah. Just right there at the edge, a little vaccine. So I want to end basically with this. So you're going on, you are now inspiring this next generation of entrepreneurs, which is so cool. What would you tell the, you know, 20, 21 year old that's listening that wants to build a business like you?

1:13:23What would you tell them today? Get online and start telling your story now. Building community is going to be an army of people behind you. And everyone, like almost think like an influencer, be a creator, be something that you don't know what you're looking for. looks like. Get online and ask. You might have two people tell you, but hey, that's an audience of two giving you an opinion. You can take it and build on it or not. But I think a lot of people are just still scared. They see a lot of brands online. They're like, oh, it's so saturated. Everyone's doing that now. Well, it's probably because it's working.

1:13:58So I know that sounds really simple, but as a business, start now because it takes a really long time to build a core community and you don't want customers, you want community. So good. Especially in a world of AI where everything's easier to build, the moat is community. It's how many people want to buy your stuff because they want to associate with you. And loyalty, right? And it's nowadays, consumers are a little bit not as loyal. They're like tri brands. It's a little bit hard, especially with Gen Z, you're seeing like they're not as loyal or they'll just try something and it. It's flip-flopping, like all of that.

1:14:35But if you have a core community, you'll get that loyalty as well. Okay. And where should everybody follow you, Allison? Yeah. So obviously the Drink Poppy channels, you have to check it out. But then obviously on my own, it's Allison Ellsworth. Are we going to see the dancing TikToks if we go to your TikTok? You will. We'll have to scroll up. So much so, literally, I'm so excited. They do Dancing with the Stars Austin and they pick five women and five men. So I'm dancing this year in a big gullet for the Center for Child protection and you raise money. It's like the biggest gala. So I'm actually even doing dance lessons right now.

1:15:07Like I am, I have not done it in 20 years, but it's for a good cause. And so I have time to do stuff like that now. I will make sure I donate. That sounds amazing. Yes. Thank you. I can't wait to see you dancing there. You don't want to say I've only ever danced in one video on the internet. Total regrets. That's one of my rules actually, as they know, no dancing on the internet, Cody. So now maybe I got to change it up. Oh no, I'm going to get you on next season. I'm going to literally put your name in to be on your sis group. I should have never told you that. Give you all my weak points. I'm here for it.

1:15:37Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you. I had so much fun.