437: Wedding Costs Are WILD: Is Your Dream Day Worth Going Into Debt?

0:00Welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, where we interview AJ Williams and talk about the actual cost of weddings. Hello, hello, hello. My name is Scott Trench, and with me today is my also married co-host, Amanda Wolf. How are you doing today, Amanda? Doing great. Awesome. Amanda and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you're starting. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big-time investments in assets like real estate, or throw your dream wedding, we'll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself toward your dreams.

0:37All right. We have a new segment of the show called the Money Moment, where we share a money hack, tip, or trick to help you on your financial journey. And today's Money Moment is have a spending buddy. If you are an impulsive spender or are having trouble justifying a large purchase, have a friend, family member, or partner you check in with prior to making those large purchases. This sounds silly, but it may help you take a moment of reflection to determine if the purchase is actually worth it. Do you have a money tip for us? Email moneymoment at biggerpockets.com. All right. Before we bring in AJ, I thought it'd be fun to just kind of quickly talk about at a high level our weddings, Amanda.

1:10Yes. I know you recently got married. When was that? So I got married last June. So we just had our one year anniversary like two weeks ago, June 26th. And oh my gosh, I've just been daydreaming about that day. It was one of the best, most favorite days of my life ever. Awesome. And where'd you do it? What was it like? Oh, it was incredible. So we did it in Lake Como, Italy. So we both are very into traveling and outdoors. And we're at a point in our life where we're like, we want to go somewhere really beautiful, somewhere with mountains and a lake. We started exploring and found Lake Como, Italy.

1:46And like I said, it was honestly like a dream come true. We just made sure that all of our non-negotiables, our best friends and family members could make it. And then we just went from there, pulled the trigger and best time of our entire lives. Yeah. Just hit the one year anniversary. Awesome. Yeah. How long have you been married, Scott? I've been married almost three years coming up on two and a half years, coming up on three years in November. We got married during COVID. And so we got engaged in late 2019 and we're planning kind of that 150 odd person wedding here in Colorado, nearby where we live.

2:22And then of course the pandemic strikes. So we had to move our wedding back, change venues and get a place where we could do kind of a streaming reception. And we had to narrow it to I think it was close to 20 people. So we had a very intimate, small wedding locally here with largely a lot of friends. A couple of folks flew in. A lot of folks that we were in a community that we were still kind of interacting with to a degree here in Denver during that time. So small, intimate wedding. It ended up being beautiful and wonderful. but we definitely were one of those folks that got the plans changed because of the pandemic environment there.

2:56Yeah. And so I feel like a lot of people who had COVID weddings ended up having an intimate ceremony, like you just mentioned, but then also ended up having a second one post COVID where they had the all out one. Did you guys decide, you know what? No, we're done. We're going to take all that money we saved and invest in some real estate or stocks or what have you. Or did you guys plan to have another one or how did that conversation go? Well, so we went with the wedding planning company. And so we were probably going to be in that like median range for weddings. But we ended up being a little cheaper because of the whole guest list shrinking from 150 to like 25, 20, 20 to 30 or something like that.

3:34So that definitely made things more affordable. Because we got married in 2020, I feel like a lot of our friends who did what you just described, they were more like 2021, 2022 weddings where they were doing those kinds of things because there was still more of that. But there was just no line of sight, if you recall, in 2020 to when that was going to happen. So we never ended up doing the bigger one. I think we were delighted with how our smaller intimate one turned out, although it would have been great to have more of the extended family there. Yeah. And I think it's so interesting, too, because after COVID, everyone had the small intimate weddings.

4:11And then once we could start going outside again, I feel like the weddings that took place, everybody came. So I know for us, we invited, I think it was like 105 people and 92 came to Italy. That was, I mean, it was incredible. Everybody who we wanted there basically ended up getting to come. but I thought that was like really like surprising because most people, you know, you always hear like, oh, like 75 % of people come. So I think that's really interesting. So I feel like you probably saved yourself a ton by stripping it down, doing the virtual and just keeping it there because probably everybody would have come.

4:47Yeah, I bet you it's a combination with everyone showing up to these weddings of two things. One, people wanting to just get out because they've been cooped up for a couple of years because of the pandemic. And two, nobody had any plans, right? So you're probably planning your wedding long enough in advance. Nobody has any plans at that point, a year out or whatever. So everyone can come. So I think it's been, that's probably a wonderful thing to have everybody, everybody showing up who's invited to a lot of these weddings. Yeah, it was amazing. It was incredible. All right, Amanda. Well, should we go ahead and bring AJ in and talk more in depth about weddings?

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6:57Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com slash moneyfree. My husband and I have multiple investment accounts across several different companies. Throw in vehicles, investment properties, and private equity holdings, and it can be difficult to get a good idea of our actual net worth. And frankly, between the kids, work, and just life in general, I don't have time to be logging into 47 different places. So I just didn't. Scott walked me through setting up my Monarch account and suddenly everything was easy. It's all in one spot so I can check in quickly. Just like everything else on Monarch, the dashboard is customizable so I can see at a glance what's most important to me and dive deeper when I need to.

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8:14AJ has built a strong track record and has worked with celebrities including John Bon Jovi, President Clinton, Queen Latifah, and the Eagles. That's probably the band, not my Philadelphia Eagles and Birds. In addition, she has raised$76 million for nonprofits through her event business. AJ, welcome to BiggerPocketsMoney podcast. We are so excited to have you here. Hi, thank you for having me. AJ, to kick things off, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you get started in planning events and weddings? Sure, sure. So I've been in the wedding and event business for over 30 years. I basically started planning events when I was in high school.

8:51For those of you that are, you know, in my age group or older, my high school yearbook dubbed me as Julie McCoy from The Love Boat. Um, so planning is definitely in my, in my DNA. Um, and I start, I got started, uh, planning events for the Miss USA and the Miss Teen USA pageants first for four New England States for many years before I started my business. That is incredible. That is a really long time. Um, I have a question. So generally speaking, how have you seen, since you've just been an event planner your entire life, basically how have weddings and events, how have they changed in the past 10 to like 15-ish years.

9:32Are you seeing couples like waiting to get married? So they're a little more financially secure or what does that look like? So there are a lot of dynamics that have changed in weddings and events because of social media. And then recently with COVID, you know, because of COVID people are just thinking a little bit more closely about what they want to do and what's more important to them rather than rushing through the experience and taking more time in their budgets, you know, to plan and planning more intimate events. But over the course of the last 10 years with social media and the help of Instagram, it has really taken events to the next level.

10:14And a lot of people want the, all the extras, the extra flowers or the Instagrammable moments that really make their event just very fun and exciting and a little bit over the top for what they like. Yeah. And so, and what about the actual like wedding season? Because, you know, we all want those Pinterest worthy weddings, those Instagrammable weddings. Do you feel like the wedding season has changed? Because I think it used to really be like summertime, right? I actually got married last summer. And, you know, for me, I'm like, oh, I can't imagine not having a warm, nice, sunny day. But do you feel like the wedding season has changed?

10:55Are people getting married more throughout the year or is it still primarily summertime? I mean, depending on where you are geographically, you have your two focused months. I'm here in New England. So June and September are hot months. Um, but because of COVID and because people are just getting a little bit more savvy, they're planning their events all throughout the year. Now, um, they're going overseas or they're going to destinations where they can have, um, you know, their events in March in a cool destination, um, that has low peak time that they can, you know, um, celebrate their wedding nuptials there, or they're going to the Caribbean or Mexico or Italy in October, as opposed to going to the Caribbean in March when the weather is really, really great.

11:48Or they're just going to their family destinations. I could do a lot of events in Nantucket. So between the months of June and October, this is really our wedding season here. But we've seen more weddings outside of the peak season happen because everybody just wants to plan their event whenever they want to. Yeah. And I love that you mentioned the destination wedding too, because I got married last summer in Italy. So when you called that destination, I was like, that's where I got married. And I believe, didn't you just get married as well internationally? I did. Yeah. Yay. Congrats. After three years through COVID and building a house, I basically said, listen, honey, if we don't get married in March, I'm going to have three weddings, one in Nantucket, one in Boston, and one in the Caribbean.

12:48So he gave me the go ahead to plan the wedding. Let's go forward. And let me ask you then, since you are the wedding planner, I felt like when I was looking around at planning my wedding, so I live in Chicago, I actually felt like it was more affordable overseas. Do you think that weddings are more affordable internationally versus having them in the United States? So some aspects of planning events internationally are more affordable, especially when you're working with local vendors. But in the case of like my wedding, I wanted certain things. So I had a 40-foot container with the brandable items and the custom items that I wanted for my event.

13:34And it was expensive to ship. And then it was expensive because of customs. But I got exactly what I wanted for my wedding while using local vendors. And, you know, that helped bring the cost down overall for the wedding. But yeah, there was a little give and take there. So, you know, I, this will take me a second to frame here. But when I graduated from high school in 2009, we were the largest graduating class of that time period. A lot of my friends and peers got married around the same time I did in 2020, 2021, 2022, the pandemic years. And we did not do this, but some of them did something to the following effect, like just what you said, AJ, where they would basically elope, then they would have a small, intimate wedding.

14:24And then later, after kind of things eased up a little bit, they had a big wedding. Did you see a lot of that? And how is that impacting kind of the demand and the need to plan relentlessly years in advance? Is that pressure sort of relenting to some degree? Are you seeing that? That trend is very popular and it was extremely popular last year. And it almost killed us, like everybody in the event industry, whether you were a rental company or you were an audiovisual company and a planner, a florist. uh 2022 was a you know you hear about great gatsby and everyone was you know wanting to have all of their events it was it was everybody there and their mother and daughter and their friend i mean everybody wanted to have an event in 2022 but scott to your point there were a lot of weddings where they had small intimate weddings or virtual weddings or they just wanted to elope and have that bigger wedding when it was time.

15:30And that was in 2022, um, where everyone was like, okay, this is the year we're going to have our wedding, our big wedding, um, like everybody else. And so 2022 was a very, very challenging year for our event industry. We went from zero percent to like, I think 400%. And it was, it really maxed us out. Um, I'm really happy that 2023 is, um, more manageable. But I do love that trend. I love the idea of having an intimate ceremony with, you know, close friends, your besties, or just family. And then, you know, just having a more full reception event with, you know, everybody that you love. Do you think that trend will continue in 2024?

16:18It will be easier again. 2025 will be easier still, so on and so forth, because of that long-term demographic tale I mentioned, where I think the generate, like, like, it's just, I think millennials got married older, but that's probably starting to wind down a little bit. And Gen Z is not quite as big. Or do you think that the pressure is going to be there for a long time and, and weddings are going to continue to increase in cost and complexity here? Well, weddings are definitely going to increase in complexity and cost, you know, um, uh, the supply and demand has definitely gotten better, but, um, I do feel that more people are thinking more closely about how they want to marry and what they want their events to look like.

16:59So we are seeing more people going back to what weddings used to be, just with a lot more flair and fun and customization. So in 2022, we see all the data that says the average cost of a wedding was$30 ,000. But whenever I see that, I'm like, what is average? What is an average wedding? What does that entail? What is the average guest count? What is the venue? Where are these averages coming from? I think when you're thinking about averages, the average really has to do with the entire United States. So if you go to one state, that average might be 8 ,000 or 10 ,000, but if you go to another one, it might be 75.

17:40So that's where the average 30 ,000 takes into account. So it may not make sense to someone that's living in New York, you know, in New York City, I should say, as opposed to upstate New York. So if that makes sense, but I think average weddings, if you want to look at what an average wedding gets you, it just really gets you a really nice wedding without the customization, without the additional flowers and a pretty focused budget. So first of all, we're talking about average is$30 ,000. The likely events like the ones that you put on, AJ, are bringing that average up. And the median cost, the typical wedding, may actually be even less expensive than that$30 ,000.

18:32We're going to have to look up that stat and see if we can find it. Um, but what is the average quote unquote cost of, uh, uh, uh, a wedding with an elite wedding and event planner, such as yourself in a Nantucket or similar setting? I would say the average upscale wedding could run you anywhere from 200 ,000 to half a million dollars and more. And who pays for this wedding? Is your client typically the bride and groom or are there parents that are involved in these kind of elite weddings that you see that fill up Instagram and social media and these kinds of things? So it depends. A lot of my clients are the bride and groom and sometimes they have assistance from parents or it is, you know, the parents that are paying for everything.

19:19So it's a little bit of a mix. It depends on where the bride and groom are in their careers and financially. and a lot of, I think a lot of brides and grooms, couples are choosing the independence route when it comes to paying their wedding. They're being more financially responsible for their event with a little bit of assistance. I think that that number you just said will shock probably a lot of people. It shocked me, that's for sure. So where is the majority of that money being spent? And I know it can vary, but like majority, where is the 200 to half a million dollars being spent? Well, what I usually tell my couples is when we start talking about budgets and what their number is, I always tell them, you should plan on 30 % higher than that, because there might be something that they may want, you know, later past this point in time in our conversation that may add to the budget or, you know, when you're dealing with destination events, there are things that may be more costly because you have to ship them over to the island.

20:33Or you may need to have a backup plan in regards to weather. So there are a lot of factors that come into play other than just a nice nicety that they may want to add on, like a large floral installation with orchids over the dance floor or a dance floor wrap or stage fronts that are infused with beautiful flowers and lighting, or they want a headline band to now come and perform at their event. So sometimes they think, okay, I want this band that's$30 ,000, but they didn't think that the band would cost another $30 ,000 because of the cost of the instruments, which is backline and the cost of shipping it over or the audiovisual or the setup.

21:28And it's those type of expenses that sometimes are not accounted for, but that's how planners guide their couples alongside with them with the budget. Right. Because you don't know what you don't know. Right. So what percent of couples actually stay within the budget that they set during that initial conversation with you? I would say most people, they usually stay within that budget plus 30 percent. Plus 30 percent. So all of you out there, whatever you have budgeted at 30 percent because you don't know what you don't know. OK, interesting. Auto Trader is powered by auto intelligence, the hyper personalized way to buy a car.

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23:15Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They're the largest registered agent and LLC service in the United States with over 1 ,500 corporate guides, and they have real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. Don't wait. Protect your privacy, build your brand, and get your complete business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com slash moneyfree and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com slash moneyfree.

23:47My husband and I have multiple investment accounts across several different companies. Throw in vehicles, investment properties, and private equity holdings, and it can be difficult to get a good idea of our actual net worth. And frankly, between the kids, work, and just life in general, I don't have time to be logging into 47 different places. So I just didn't. Scott walked me through setting up my Monarch account and suddenly everything was easy. It's all in one spot, so I can check in quickly. Just like everything else on Monarch, the dashboard is customizable, so I can see at a glance what's most important to me and dive deeper when I need to.

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26:06what are what are some of the things that you feel are must-haves at these events that would that would give you the best bang for your buck at that level of spend what are what how would you prioritize the the big ticket items there entertainment great sound during your ceremony because you want everyone to hear you and that's usually something that is missed and not thought of um that's one of the things we usually have to add on to the budget at the beginning of the process because it's not normally thought of. But I would say you want to spend your dollars on great entertainment and surprise elements because those are conversational pieces that will last long after the event and what people will remember from your wedding.

26:52And honestly, the couples take away from the wedding as well. You want to spend more of your where your guests are going to spend the most amount of time at. So that's really dinner and dancing, right? So making sure that they're entertained and they're having fun as much as possible during the event. So it's like the accents and the little surprise elements. Maybe it's adding on three horns that come into the dance floor that add elements of surprise and wow people while they're dancing. So it's those elements that really, I think that are important to add on to the budget. Then on the flip side, we have to say, what would you cut?