448: The Average American’s Guide to Investing $10K–$100K

26:14So it worked both ways. And these opportunities are out there. So if you're young and you're starting out and you've saved up$25 ,000, whether you're working at a specific industry and you're working at an HVAC company and you say, Hey, maybe I will get my electrician's license. I'll become a journeyman. I'll start my own business that way. And so there's a lot of reasons to do that. One reason is you can do your own schedule. You can make as much or as little as you want to, as much time for your family as you want. The other thing is there are immense tax advantages. If you start coupling your real estate investing with also self-employment income, you now have access to things like solo 401ks, being able to business expense trips to properties if you meet certain rules.

26:58And this is not like bad stuff you do in the tax code. It is written in the tax code for you to do specifically. So I would encourage someone at this point, if they've done a couple of these other things, maybe have a couple of properties under their belt that are already rented out cash flowing, look at trying to start a business or buy a business that's already in service with clients that you can take over and build over time to what you want it to be. Fantastic, Kyle. I love this answer. We did an episode with Tim Delaney, number 325 of the BiggerPocketsMoney podcast, where he talked about buying a business.

27:32He did buy it for, I think,$100 ,000. Boy, it's been a while since we did that episode. So I can't remember exactly what he paid for it. Maybe it was generating$100 ,000 afterwards. But he bought this business and it started generating income. He was able to pull back a little bit. It started off as a full-time job, but then he was able to pull back a little bit and not work so much while still generating six figures for himself. Definitely. The other thing too, is you now have another asset that is another diversification tool. So now you've got real estate and now you have a business that you're building.

28:09If you build it right in 5 to 10 years, if you're thinking, I want to make sure I have an exit strategy, if I need one, you don't need it. But if you build a business right, and you're watching for buyers along the way who might be interested in it, think of that. And then now you have a separate asset. And yes, it's a great... People should listen to that episode. It's something to really pay attention to. There are a lot of small business owners. My electrician that came the other day asked me if someone wants to buy his company. And it's just him, but he has an awesome set of clients. If there was a 25-year-old that was an electrician, I would tell them to buy it instantly.

28:44And they could sell it in 5 years. And no 25-year-olds have$25 ,000 or$50 ,000 to buy it. If you have it, you've just made an enormous return. That's why it's so important to accumulate this. Yeah. At 25. A small business owner like that, they don't get good buyers. That's who you want to buy. And they're more willing to do an earn out where you pay them over time. It's their retirement income, you don't have to put as much up front. Yeah, that's awesome. And I think a lot of the trades are like that. Some random person decided to start his own business as an electrician, or my HVAC guy is in the same boat.

29:23He thought his children were going to take it over, and then they didn't. So now he's like, well, what am I going to do with this business? He is the guy that everybody goes to in our town. So he's got so much goodwill. Yeah, you could go and start your own business. Of course, anybody could start their own business, but then you have to build up from scratch. Whereas you buy Bob's business, Bob's does an awesome job. If you could do an awesome job too, you just instantly inherit this amazing business. Well, not inherit, buy it. For me, for$25 ,000, I would look at maxing out my 401k. especially if I am younger.

30:02I might look at the Roth version of that. I might look at my own Roth IRA. In fact, I would look at my Roth IRA, do as much as I can for my company's 401k match, if anything, then switch over to max out my Roth IRA because that's after-tax money. That is growing tax-free. Looking at my HSA as well, that's triple tax leverage that everybody loves to talk about. And then going back and finishing, maxing up my 401k. Because I like the stock market. Everybody else gave real estate answers, which are great too. So that's just a different perspective. All right, let's do$50 ,000 next. AutoTrader is powered by auto intelligence, the hyper personalized way to buy a car.

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33:42Policy Genius makes something overwhelming feel clear. It's an online insurance marketplace that lets you compare quotes from top insurers side by side for free. And their licensed team helps with questions, paperwork and guidance every step of the way. With PolicyGenius, real users have gotten 20-year$2 million policies for just$53 a month. Don't wait until next year. Give your family the gift of security today with PolicyGenius. Head to PolicyGenius.com. And Kyle, you want to go? You want to take this one first? Yeah. So this one, I'm going to go into another asset class now. And we start getting to these higher numbers and the options just start opening up more and more.

34:19And I really wish I would have stole Scott's framework from the beginning of a passive versus an active investor. Because those are two camps that people are often in one or the other, depending on their stage of life, their age, how many kids they have, or what their career looks like. If they like it or if they hate it, you're a lot more likely to want to get out real quick if you hate something that you're doing. At this point, I would start to do some serious planning. The$50 ,000 mark, say you've got a few properties, you've got a business that cash flows, it's what you want, you're building it.

34:51Now we start to look at what's 10 years from now really look like? I can go different directions. And with some of this money, I would probably start looking at some of the tax advantage accounts where Mindy's already talking about them. But you're self-employed. look at your tax bracket. Are you bumping into the next tax bracket as a self-employed person? You're paying extra taxes for the employer and the employee because you're self-employed, the FICA taxes, Social Security, Medicare, some of those things. So you need to watch that stuff. These days, you can put$50 ,000 to$60 ,000 in a solo 401k in one year, which is huge.

35:28You could bring your income down by$50 ,000, drop you from a tax bracket that's 10 % higher on that marginal amount to a lower amount. And you just need to look at what are your plans. In two years, are you going to be a full-time real estate investor and your tax liabilities are pretty much going to go to nothing because of all the depreciation, bonus depreciation. Say you have some short-term rentals, you can offset some of that income. If that's the case, then you want to reduce your self-employment income as much as you can right now because you're not going to have much income later. So this starts to get a little gray on where I would recommend someone put this$50 ,000.

36:05But my first thought is to start doing some stock market retirement accounts, mainly for the diversification piece, both of the tax advantages, the asset class, and the liquidity. Real estate is less liquid than stock accounts. Even if it's an IRA, a 401k, or a non-retirement account, all those are more liquid than a house on a corner as far as if you need money quick. And I've used my Roth IRA several times to purchase a property because of certain rules that the Roth IRA has to be able to take money out short term, put it back in within a certain timeframe. So having this extra bucket is a good thing as you progress down the road.

36:46It gives you options depending on where you want to go. Awesome. James, you want to go next? Yeah. I actually really loved what Kyle just said about working smart and getting into the tax planning and trying to save more. I actually feel like that was a big mistake I didn't do for the first 10 years of my career where I was just in trying to make money, make money, make money, bring it in, they redeploy it, but then you end up paying a lot of taxes, right? And you can be working a lot harder than smarter. And so I think that's a really important thing people to kind of dig into. And so once you get to this$50 ,000 mark, you can really start planning out, or at least when I was an investor, I was getting to that amount of money, I could start planning out and looking at different things.

37:28The first thing I would do with the$50 ,000 is I still want to allocate at least half of that to high growth, which I'm going to continue with my fix and flip. I know I beat that drum, but that has been the most successful way for me to grow capital at that point. The next thing I'm going to start doing is looking into what everyone else has mentioned, which is that house hacking owner-occupied purchase, right? Because I don't want to eat up too much of my money that goes towards my house for the house hacking, minimizing my overall housing expense, and I want to keep it in the fix and flip space that I can continue to grow.

38:01If you own a property that's owner-occupied, you get a huge tax break. If you're single and you sell a property after two years, you get a$250 ,000 tax credit. So the first$250 ,000 that you make does not go anywhere back in your pocket. If you're married, it goes up to$500 ,000. So that first initial owner-occupied purchase, you can make a huge, huge tax benefit gain by buying something that needs a little bit of work. You get to increase the value, sell it in two years, and get all your capital back tax-free plus the gain. In addition to, I'm not eating up all my cash, and I'm continuing to do fix and flip properties.

38:39And so once I got to the$50 ,000, I would definitely go look at that owner-occupied property, find something with some value add, get my tax benefits and savings going that way, and then continue with the fix and flip to get those high 35%, 40%, 50 % returns? Okay. With$50 ,000, I can max out my 401k for 22 ,500 this year. I can max out my HSA. If I'm single, that's$3 ,850. If I'm married or have a family, that's $77.50. I can max out my Roth IRA that's$6 ,500 and I still have$13 ,250 left over to find something to do with, to invest in a different way. So I can do all of my tax advantaged accounts and set myself up, start setting myself up for a comfortable retirement.

39:28So that's what I would be doing. Tagging off of James Daynard, I do actually really love that live-in flip. So I would be looking for my next live-in flip. I'm always looking for my next live-in flip. I bought the house that nobody wanted. They were smoking in it and it has a swimming pool in the backyard in an area of the world that nobody has swimming pools. So it was a very undesirable house. It was hideous. And the same house, I bought it for$365. The same house around the corner last year sold for$850 ,000. So there's a lot of upside. I'm actually really hoping that someday I will pay taxes on my live-in flip because I have capped, I've gone over that$500 ,000.

40:12That's my next goal is to pay taxes on my live-in flip. I've so far never actually paid taxes on them, which is also really awesome because I love not paying taxes as well when I can do it legally. Um, the, the$13 ,250 that I would have left over, I could go learn how to be a real estate agent if I wasn't already, because I already had the 10 ,000 to do it with. I think that, uh, the rest of you are focusing on real estate so much. I want to give people an option to do non-real estate things because not everybody wants to invest in real estate. And I think the worst time to invest in real estate is when you haven't done your research.

40:50You're not really all that interested in it and you're just doing it because everybody else is doing it. So the stock market is a really valid place to park your money. Awesome. Well, love all these answers. Lots of different opinions here. For me, for$50 ,000, I'm going to go with, on the active front, rental property investing. This is not as aggressive as an entrepreneurial pursuit that's been mentioned, but this is a great way to get a 15 % to 20%, 25 % IRR. if you're sophisticated, if you use leverage. This is where you can put down 15 % and legitimately buy a rental with conventional financing in parts of the country, maybe not your hometown if you're in a higher cost living area, but there are rental properties available in the$300 ,000 to$350 ,000 range in this country that will be accessible to you from a traditional standpoint.

41:39And I just think it's a super powerful way to build wealth and park that next 50 grand after we've done the house hack, after we've done some of the tax advantage stuff that I talked about earlier. And then on the passive side, if I'm trying to be totally passive with my real estate investing or with my investing of 50 grand, now I'm going to be thinking about syndication opportunities. So I've already talked about going through the 401k and the HSA and the tax advantaged accounts. I'm assuming that's already passed us. What do I do with the next 50k here? Now I'm going to be thinking about, hey, can I invest in an apartment complex and get skilled at evaluating syndication or other investment opportunities?

42:16And those guys will target a 11 to 18 % IRR in many cases, depending on where you go with risk profile, leverage, all that kind of stuff. So that's where I'm going with my next$50 ,000. All right. Loving these answers, guys. This is a pretty fun discussion. Lots of different opinions here. So hopefully this helps and explains that there's no right answer. Kyle, I just want to call you out for the great framework you had here. The options explode when you get to$50 ,000 or$100 ,000 in investable liquidity. You just have so many different paths you can go down, so many permutations of active versus passive if you're creative and willing to do some things, willing to be actively involved in those investments, especially if you go the entrepreneurial route in the early days.

43:00All right, let's do$100 ,000 next. And Kyle, you want to kick us off again here? Yeah. So your comment there is a good setup for this one. And so this is the last one that we're hitting. And I just want to bring it back to the timeframe that I was talking about. From the beginning, I want a 5 to 10-year potential exit strategy. If the career I'm in, I don't like. If my family life changes. All kinds of things can happen. I think of things... We talked about in the other episodes, I do these crazy planning retreats every quarter where I think through our goals for our family and everything. And I think about things like, what if something happens to my wife and I have to take care of our three boys by myself?

43:41Can I step away? How fast can I step away? These are different things. And now when you have$100 ,000, now you need to really step back and say, where am I in this journey? Where in the next five years do I want to be? Do I buy with$100 ,000, buy two turnkey single-family rental properties in Atlanta, Georgia that are new builds, brand new, fairly passive, have them turned over to a property management company with very little maintenance, and I enjoy my career right now for another five years, and I keep stacking that on, and then that's my potential exit strategy if I don't like my career anymore?

44:15Or am I done with my career? Do I need to take this$100 ,000 and make a complete shift? This is where it gets a little bit interesting because you can invest this in ways that aren't typical asset classes. And what I mean is, say you're in a career where you're making$150 ,000 a year. Let's bring it down a little bit. Maybe you're making$100 ,000 a year and it's just burning you out. It's burning your family out and you need to take a step back. Say you can find another job that makes$70 ,000 a year, that has better hours, more enjoyable, is going to make your health better. It is okay to take$60 ,000 of this$100 ,000 for two years to float a family budget if you need to, to help keep your priorities in the right spot.

45:06And that's a hard thing to say on a money and investing show because now you just bled through capital that you can't get back. But you also can't get back the time with your family. And you also can't get back your health either. If whatever you're doing is very intense, you can buy that back over 2 years. Who knows what idea you'll get over those 2 years? Who knows what other opportunity will come up if you are in a better state of mind, your family's in a better state of mind. So I don't have a good answer for this one because there's too many options. And it really depends on what your goal is, short, long-term, where you're currently at, how you're feeling, single, family, all these things really play in together what age bracket you're in.

45:49But this is a large enough amount that you can make a really awesome move in whatever direction you choose. So you just need to think it through really well. So with$100 ,000, there's the stock market response from the 50 ,000. There's after-tax stock market investing. Again, I'm going with index funds unless you have done the exhaustive research on a specific company or a specific sector that allows you to invest in individual stocks. But on a more active note, I'm going to start looking into real estate. I like to put 20 % down, even though I just said you don't have to. I prefer to because when you don't put 20 % down, then you're paying PMI or private mortgage insurance.

46:37I would be looking at a short-term rental or probably more honestly, a medium-term rental. Short-term rentals have the quick turnover. Medium-term rentals are 30-day stays or longer, both of which have books available at BiggerPockets Publishing. And private lending, also a book available for BiggerPockets Publishing, where I am lending money to a flipper like James, who is then doing all the work. So my returns are 10%, 12%, 14%, which is awesome for me because I'm taking very little risk. The reason I'm taking very little risk is because when I am doing private lending, I am lending as much, if not more, to the person than the deal.

47:21I know James. James, if you need money, I have money for you. Scott, maybe you don't know what you're doing, I'm not going to lend you any money. I'm all tapped out. I get emails from people randomly. Hey, can you lend me money? I have never heard you before. I don't know who you are. I am all tapped out. I lend to people that I know are going to pay me back. So regardless of James's deal, I can look at it and I can say, because I have the experience, I can say, wow, his numbers look pretty good, or his numbers are completely fabricated, there's no way he's going to be able to do that. But if his numbers look pretty good, and I know him, there's a really high chance that I will lend him money if I have it available.

48:06And the returns for just writing a check are pretty phenomenal. The timeframe is pretty short, like six or eight months. And I get whopping checks either every month or at the end when they sell it, depending on how we've set it up. So that's a really great way to be in real estate without being in real estate, making a great return without a super lot of risk. James, how do you turn 100 grand into 250K in six months? This is where you can start putting rocket fuel on your portfolio. I think taking a step back, it's, you know, everyone has their own risks. They all have their own goal. And, you know, I know Kyle's mentioned this a couple times.

48:48Scott's definitely mentioned this about setting your goals and really planning it out. And that's important. I have a high threshold for pain and risk, and it's not for everybody. And I think as an investor, you have to pick out what do you want to do? Do you want to grow steady? Like Kyle's mentioned, what do you want to do in your personal life with your time? I'm just kind of a deal junkie that likes to grow. So I'm, but when you get this$100 ,000, you can really turn things around. And what I would be focusing on with the$100 ,000 is A, I'm always going to be fix and flip. You're going to hear that as my steady story because it's that high growth is always going to be bringing them in more income to go buy more property.

49:26But once you start getting$100 ,000, I'm really going to start exploring keeping real estate as holdings at that point because now I can start allocating a certain amount to start buying, buying, hold. So if I got up to$100 ,000, I'm still keeping$50 ,000, I'm still fixing flipping or high return deals, whether it's a JV deal or anything that's going to get above a 40 % return at that point. The other part, I'm going to start building out my portfolio for high growth, not for cash flow. I've never been an investor that bought off cash flow. I buy for opportunity and growth. And what do I mean by that is I take that$50 ,000, I'm going to target the biggest, heaviest burr property that I'm going to find that's going to be the cheapest property that you can get.

50:08And you're going to buy that property. You're going to renovate it. You're going to refi it. And I'm going to break even for two years. That's totally fine. James told us about the smell of this property in the intro, actually. That was one I should have kept as a burr with my$100 ,000. But I ended up flipping it. It had a purpose. I bought something else with it. But yeah, that was a stinky one. Yeah, buying the stinkiest house that you can buy. But the deeper discount for your holdings, that's your gunpowder to explode you later down as an investor, right? Like when we started building out our portfolio, we're up to almost nearly a thousand doors.

50:41We got it by buying these heavy fixer single family houses with big equity positions. The cash flow was okay, you know, or even some of them are hitting 10 % cash flow. But the problem is when you only have 25 grand in a deal, that's 250 bucks a month. And you can't get that to stretch that far. And so I'm going to target the heavy value at the increase, the equity. You get that, and then after one year, I'm going to 1031 that out for another value-add two to four unit that I can get higher cash flow and even more equity. And that's where the dominoes start going. And if you start putting these dominoes in your portfolio of getting equity, trading it.

51:20For me, I never hang on to equity. I want to utilize it. And I want to utilize it by levering it up more. I want to trade it and get myself into a better position. And that's where the dominoes go. You take a house, you trade it for a two to four unit. You get a value add there, then you trade that for 10 units and it just keeps going. And so, you know, for me, I'm a high growth guy. It does require a lot of time. It requires a lot of mental strain sometimes. And you got to be in the business. You know, it's not the most passive lifestyle, but it's going to get me to that passive lifestyle a little quicker than I would be if I stayed more steady.

51:54And again, that is not for everybody. I'm just a weirdo that likes to keep going hard. but it is the way that I have found has totally exploded my portfolio. It's just always chasing value add and then utilizing the equity, not just sitting with it. Awesome. So Kyle is buying brand new builds in Atlanta, Georgia, but really kind of opening up to the endless possibilities of this amount. Mindy is lending to James and James is buying the smelliest, dumpiest piece of property he can find in his area for the cheapest possible price. Love it. Love the variety here. I'm going to, you know, for my answer, I'm going to go back to that, hey, you know, what we've all been talking about, about how many options are here.

52:37And I'm going to say at$100 ,000 in liquidity. Now you've got to start thinking about, okay, I've got a real pathway to a million or$2 million portfolio. What do I want that to look like when I'm there? If someone handed me a pile of$2 million, let's call it, how would I allocate those funds to give me exactly the life that I want? Because that's what's within your grasp or that's what you need to be thinking about here at the strategic level. And so for me, that would look like a portion in growth, a portion in growth in tax-advantaged stocks, a portion in cash-flowing real estate. And then something that's, for me, not tax-advantaged, but just delivers actual cash flow to me.

53:20So I'm in Mindy's camp squarely here on the passive side at least and saying if I'm at$100 ,000, I'm going to lend to James, and I'm going to collect my 10 % to 14 % simple interest. I am reasonably skilled in real estate, so I feel like I can invest in either the jockey, James, and his capability set, or the horse, the asset itself. If I don't know quite as much about the investor in that case, maybe I have a great LTV spread there. So I'm doing that with my passive investment. Now, if this is my first hundred grand and I'm still trying to get to this point, it's not in the context of a larger portfolio.

54:00And then I'm taking the more active approach. And this, I'm going to go back to a discussion point that you guys all brought up earlier, many of you did, around small businesses. I think for me, buying an electrical company is not as interesting to me or like a list of clients. Total respect for that. That's a great way to get started. but I would rather buy a larger business that's more established, maybe in the 200, 300, 400 ,000 EBITDA range. And that business is going to transact for a million dollars, 750 to 1.5 million. A hundred grand is enough to get started on that. That's where you can get seller financing from one of these buyers.

54:35You can get an SBA loan and you'll be taken very seriously with a hundred grand. And this is a real opportunity to three, five, 10, 15 X that investment. And there's no right answer here, but that's just personally for me where I would be taking the small business route a little bit more seriously. I'd be more interested at 100 grand than I would at 25 grand for me. So that's my answer there. It overlaps a lot of folks. There's no right or wrong here. I love that business answer. That's one of the things that Scott touched on there is that using that 100 ,000 as the down payment to get a seller finance deal up towards the million-dollar range.

55:14But what happens is if you are able to buy something like that, and then you grow it, create efficiencies, you now bring it from a seller-financed business deal to a potentially bank-financed business deal when you want to sell it. And that's a whole different jump as far as the income that you can get or the value that you can get for it, or even where they roll that company into a larger company. You know, there's HVAC. I keep coming back to HVAC. HVAC is something where this happens all the time. A larger HVAC company can roll in a smaller one and they will pay nothing for one that is just a one-man show or a five-person show.

55:50But if someone has efficiencies and it's kind of an enterprise in a geographic region that someone grew, like if Scott bought it and increased it to an actual enterprise business, they will pay top dollar for that because they have money that they need to deploy or they'll give it to James. I noticed that no one wanted to invest in me during this podcast. It was just James that was getting all the dollar amounts. So I need to change something to my answers here. It's not exciting enough or not stinky enough. It's probably... Kyle, we invest in the financial planning back in the 100 to 5 ,000 episode there.

56:24That's true. That's true. But yeah, I agree. I think that business thesis, that's been something I've been noodling on for years. That's where I'd be hunting, especially in this first 100, a couple hundred thousand range. for someone starting because, I mean, this is the most inefficient market it's ever, like, I can imagine. These are people that have no one to buy their businesses, right? That have been around for 25, 30 years that probably, you know, some businesses don't even have websites. Some businesses don't have, you know, basic technology practices. The episode Mindy referenced, the gentleman bought a liquor store and they didn't have a point of sale system, right?

57:01There was just a cash register that, you know, with that, they didn't have an inventory management system. So adding these efficiencies drives tons of revenue, tons of profit. And to your point, if you can multiply that income by taking from$250 ,000 a year to$500 ,000, not only are you making$500 ,000 a year, but your multiple expands when you sell it. So it's now instead of buying it for a million, you're selling it for two and a half, three million. This is something that is not new. Cody Sanchez, Alex Formosi, a lot of these guys are all over this. But that would be where I'd be really hunting at that level after my real estate investment here with it.

57:35And I have a good solid financial foundation to help me take this down. So it's going to be way more active though. It's definitely not a semi-passive investment stream. This is your profession if you're going down that route. Yeah. And I think it's really important to note that you need to be comfortable with what you're doing. If you don't want to invest in real estate, then don't invest in real estate. If you don't really want to own your own business, then either don't own your own business or buy a business that somebody else can be running so you don't have to be in there all the time. But if you're buying a small business, be prepared to be running that small business.

58:14There's a lot of things that people think would be really awesome and then it turns out reality is way different than the fantasy. So do your research first and foremost because you can turn $100 ,000 into$0 super quick by doing it wrong. Can we all agree though, that we're on the same page of don't buy, spend the hundred grand buying the nice car and the nice house. That's going to be your primary residence and kind of trapping yourself from those things. Don't build yourself a million dollar portfolio 20 years down the road and call yourself a millionaire, but it's all in your home equity. It's all in your 401k.

58:49You got$10 ,000 in the bank and no other assets accessible or available to you to take that trip now or spend the time with your kids? How do we feel about that statement? I think that's a valid statement. I would say that that's not the best way to do it, although it's better than having zero. Yeah, save your money. One of the best things that we ever did was short-term paying, long-term gain. We didn't pull any money out of our flipping business for the first three to four years. It compounded on itself. We didn't go buy the nice car. We didn't buy the nice house. It was just like we were just growing, growing, growing, and it really compounded into something to where we can have the nice car, the nice house, but it's paid for by interest, not principle.

59:31And the more you grow, the more that interest will pay for that lifestyle. So just wait. It will come. Now James has the nice car, the nice house, and the nice yacht. All right, guys. Well, this was a great discussion. Thank you so much for the different perspectives here. Really, really appreciate it. Always learn a lot. And yeah, I hope this helps folks think about it. And I think the biggest inspiration I hope you take away from this is amassing each stage of liquidity that we just discussed here just multiplies your options. I think that Kyle stated it best earlier in this episode when he made a point to that effect.

1:00:07And that's the magic here. When you can accumulate this kind of liquidity, especially if you can do it early in life, the options are just multiply ahead of you. And you can take advantage of a lot of different angles here. So look forward to hearing what other folks suggest in the comments. Yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. And Scott, like you said, this episode clearly shows that there is no one right way to invest, only that you must start. So we hope this advice was helpful for you. James Daner, thank you for joining us today. Where can people find you? Best place to find me is on Instagram at jdaneflips or jamesdainard.com.

1:00:45And Kyle, thank you for joining us today. Where can people find you? Just kylemast.com or on Twitter at whoiskylemast. I post on there sometimes, have a newsletter that I put out. But yeah. Who is Kyle Mast? I wonder. Who is Kyle? Who is Kyle? Have you read Atlas Shrugged? That's how I came up with that. Who is John Galt? That's from the book Atlas Shrugged. And Scott, everybody knows where you are, so I don't have to ask you. That wraps up this episode of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. He is Scott Trench. You can find him at scott at biggerpockets.com. I am Mindy Jensen. You can find me, Mindy, at biggerpockets.com.

1:01:24And we are saying on the bus, octopus. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple. And if you're looking for even more money content, feel free to visit our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash BiggerPocketsMoney. BiggerPocketsMoney was created by Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench. Produced by Kaylin Bennett. Editing by Exodus Media. Copywriting by Nate Weintraub. Lastly, a big thank you to the BiggerPockets team for making this show possible.