How “Regular” People Can Achieve FIRE (Early Retirement) by 40!

19:03What I wish I had in 2018, I'm building that now to help really give new and aspiring financial planners that clarity and confidence, the ones who feel behind like I did back in the day. So I've created a video course and actually over 100 hours of on-demand educational content so that people can feel that really being able to 10x their accelerated experience in those first few years. What is your FIRE number? I'm one of those who actually consider Social Security in my FIRE number because I like to be more realistic. So my FIRE number right now, I'd say is about 1.25 million. I expect to be there by 40, which is about four or five years from now, expecting kind of like a 6 % to 8 % annualized inflation adjusted return.

19:40So I've got, again, I've got all my own calculators for this stuff, but I'm looking at about like 1.25. I actually created this little meme of Drake, which is kind of I redefined FIRE for myself. instead of financial independence, retire early, it's gonna be financial independence, recreational employment. Like even when we reach our FI number, that FI number just gives me permission to do more things without expecting anything in return. So like my core values are transparency and generosity. And the closer I get to FI, you know, my version of FI, the more I can give to others without expecting something in return, which is like, again, I love the feeling of helping people.

20:12And as I've realized, like the more that you help people, like first of all, you're aligning with your core values, but it also accelerates your upside, even financially, which is kind of the irony of all this stuff is I'll probably be financially independent and still be able to save, you know,$100 ,000 a year at that point.

20:26Mindy Jensen:But I like your redefinition of fire because recreational employment, I think there's a lot of people who think that it would be really great to be retired, but in fact, just don't like their current job. I hear from a lot of people, as I'm sure you do. Oh, well, I would never want to do that because I don't I like to work. Okay, great. Have you ever gotten a new boss at that job that you used to like to work at. And then all of a sudden, you're like, maybe that fire thing sounds great. So I love this recreational employment. I've served about 150 households to and through early retirement at this point, you know, you see the books with like the hammock on the beach, everybody has been even marketing in the financial advisor spaces, like, you know, like to, you know, like a married couple walking down the beach, you do that for like a few hours, you're like, okay, now I got to do something with my life, right?

21:07So again, it's okay, if you're gonna sit in a hammock and lay in a hammock for 40 years, but most people who retire early, they still want to use those skills, their network. And I guess the biggest part is they still want to help others, but they want to help others in their own capacity and their own, again, with their own command over their time, energy, and their financial resources. All right. When we're back from this final break, we're going to talk all about Cody's hot takes on FI portfolios and how you could simplify yours. If you've been putting off life insurance, I get it. The old process was miserable.

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23:11Mindy Jensen:Thanks for sticking with us. Cody, if I handed you the$1.25 million fire portfolio that you're looking for in cash, what would the future state portfolio look like? I know that the current state is all broad-based index funds, but would the future state look different? Would you diversify? Or how does that work, especially in the context of recreational employment where you might earn additional income? Yeah, that's a really good point. So I have a very simple framework that kind of aligns with, even after I do all the analysis, I'm like, hey, it's about the same, is I say, how much money do I plan to distribute from my portfolio over the next seven years?

23:44And that's how much from a risk capacity standpoint that I put in fixed income. Since I don't expect to take any money out of my portfolio over the next seven years, I'm 100 % equity. That's my risk capacity and also my risk tolerance because definitely highly educated in the space, but also I've kind of overcome those emotional behavioral aspects of risk tolerance. My risk tolerance or risk capacity are pretty well aligned that I feel comfortable being 100 % equity, which is globally diversified between US and foreign, international total stock market.

24:14Mindy Jensen:Can you clarify what fixed income means? So fixed income to me is cash and bonds. We could definitely dive into the portfolio part of this. I really think of three parts of developing your portfolio, which is the three dimensions of risk need, risk capacity, and risk tolerance. We could certainly jump into that. But I would say that if I were to use bonds in my own allocation, it would either be maybe actually be a combination of using like a total bond, you know, like, for example, like not advice for you personally, but like BND, like total bond index ETF, I would also build like a small bond ladder.

24:47So I'd specifically use a bond ladder ETF, iShare iBonds is a product out there and also Invesco BulletShares, you know, again, I don't sell these things. But those are two products that I really like the idea of the asset liability matching of saying, hey, how much money do I think I need over the next three to five years? And how can I set up a portfolio where that money will mature and redeem as cash within my account in the years that I need that money? So I would actually do kind of a combination of a total return approach with a really like the three fund portfolio of like VTI, VXUS, and BND, but maybe have like maybe three to five years, not in cash, you're not just like in a checking account, but three to five years and like a bond ladder ETF.

25:26So I know a lot of people say, you You know, the bucket approach like is, you know, losing out because you have all this money in cash. Like my cash is still earning, you know, four to five percent in these bond ladder ETFs. So in terms of, you know, really net, as long as I stay invested, hold those to maturity, you know, I'm like locking in a net yield of about four to five percent. And it'll learn a lot more than that if you're going to be recreational employed and starting three businesses every five years. Portfolio theory does not really account for the entrepreneurial itch that a huge portion of the FIRE community has.

25:59I regularly pull the BiggerPocketsMoney YouTube community to get data because I'm just curious. I'm just fascinated about this. A third of the people watching or listening to this show already own a business. A little over a third, 35%, definitely intend to start a business after they retire early. Another 38 % are perhaps I might consider starting a business. And only a quarter, 27%, say definitely not. I will definitely not start a business. And portfolio theory, as we discuss it in the FIRE community, and as we discussed it in a recent episode, which I thought was awesome with Frank Vasquez, discusses how to have a portfolio in isolation distribute in perpetuity in a very safe way at the highest possible levels.

26:48But at least with our audience, the BiggerPockets money community, it was very rare for folks to really actually assume no distributions following that. And I'm still grappling with what that means from a portfolio theory perspective. I do think in practice, one thing it means is these people hold way more cash. I hold way more cash than what most traditional portfolio theory calls for, But there's so much more beyond that, that I think it's just an open book in terms of that. But I would be curious to see what a mind like yours has to say on the subject, because you've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about this.

27:21Yeah, it's funny. Being an entrepreneur changes the average advice. Like, for example, I haven't contributed to a 401k in the last three years, right? As somebody who talks about the order of operations, like I haven't contributed to a 401k. Because guess what? I really value, it's not less about short-term stability. It's more about the flexibility. Maybe we could talk about like, you know, like the entrepreneurial middle class trap is when as an entrepreneur, you're still saving and investing like an employee. Like that is definitely like trap you can get yourself into. So for me, my kind of back on the napkin is I wanted to build up$250 ,000 of taxable brokerage.

27:53So after tax investments, before I start prioritizing, you know, the tax optimization and the traditional 401k and all those things. So, you know, as an entrepreneur, it's actually it's funny, too. it's not just about the money that it takes to launch a new business, but it gives me permission to launch it without having to feel like I have to succeed within three to six months. Because the average employee is kind of expecting, you know, income loss for three to six months, kind of, you know, Dave Ramsey style. Whereas an entrepreneur, I should expect, you know, like one to two years of runway.

28:20The thing is going into, you know, beggars can't be choosers. Like I don't want to launch a business that has to be successful within six months. I want to launch a business that gives me the ability to slow down, be intentional over like one to two years to really build what I wanted to build. Because again, if you go in with needing, you know, like as a financial planner, if every prospective client has to become a client for me to be financially secure, I'm not going to be a good financial planner, I'm going to be rushing the advice, I'm going to be rushing the, you know, the qualitative, the deeper conversation.

28:47So yeah, being an entrepreneur is very different on the path to five.

28:50Mindy Jensen:Okay, hold on. You just said you haven't contributed to your 401k in three years that you want to build up 250 ,000 in your after tax brokerage. It sounded like before you continue to contribute to a 401k. Why are you doing this instead of reducing your taxable income? Because you do have a sizable amount of income. I'm pointing to my screen that you can't see. You do have a sizable amount of income and reducing that taxable income by what is the contribution? 23 ,000 this year. You're not over 50, so you can't grab that other six. But if you are self-employed with no additional full-time employees, you could do the self-directed solo 401k, which I can't remember the limits, 58 or$64 ,000 could go into your 401k, that's a lot less in taxes that you would be paying.

29:36I know. Can I try to answer Cody and tell me if I get the answer right? Let's go, Scott. The reason he does not contribute to his 401k is because this man started a business a few years ago that has quadrupled or quintupled in revenue and in profit over that same time period. And it would be absolutely silly and foolish to attempt to get a 10 % return, even if it is tax advantaged in a 401k in that same time horizon. And the additional liquidity and optionality that the after-tax brokerage account will give him and he can feel in real time will far outweigh the long-term benefits of a few years of tax advantaged contributions.

30:14I am also sure that Cody will soon begin resuming those contributions to his tax advantaged retirement accounts, but that will be because he has so much more income because of the excellent investment he has made in his businesses that he can afford to both fund his entire ladder of tax advantaged retirement account contributions and still continue to generate spendable liquidity today. How am I doing, Cody? Is that close?

30:39Mindy Jensen:Before we allow Cody to answer the question that I asked Cody, you're still putting money into the after-tax brokerage account. So you're not getting the tax advantage, but then you have more access to it. But I would assume that since everything is in index funds, you would be investing in the same way in the 401k or in the after tax. So I'm just asking the question that I hear people screaming at their radio right now. Why is he not getting the tax deduction? Scott, I'll give you a B plus. The first part is actually the part that doesn't apply. I do not think not investing to a 401k is getting greater returns by not investing because you can see that I'm still investing that money in a different account type.

31:17But the second part is where you absolutely nailed it, that I want the flexibility and the optionality that if I do want access to those funds, I don't have to do one of the specialized. Again, I definitely know all the 72T and Roth conversion ladders and all that fun stuff. I want to be able to do some tax gain, tax loss harvesting with easy flexibility and optionality. So, yeah, I'm still investing that money in the low cost index funds, only earning, quote unquote, 10 percent annualized. Again, it's the future uncertainty of, first of all, professionally what we'll bring. And also personally, one thing I haven't mentioned here, my wife and I are planning to adopt a child, infant adoption within the next year or two.

31:53And that's a big part of it, too, is professionally, I want that flexibility to build fun businesses. But I also want the liquidity and flexibility to say there's a lot of uncertainty that comes with adoption, right, including whether it's medically. Adoption for us costs$55 ,000, right? So just really thinking, hey, there's a lot of really short term to intermediate term. And by that, I mean like kind of five to 10 year money that we don't quite want to commit to our 50s and beyond. Thank you for the generous B plus grade here. I have the same framework for a like 23 year old, for example, just getting started in life, making a median or maybe around that median income level.

32:30And the idea is I'm not against retirement accounts and I max my retirement accounts now here at 34. But to get started on the journey of compounding wealth, that liquidity, you're so much more dangerous in a good way if you're relatively young, relatively entrepreneurial, relatively flexible, and this money is in cash and not in your mind locked away in the 401k for a couple reasons. One, a house hack, for example, is so powerful for that person. There's no possible way that the benefits of a 401k in almost any situation you can really conceive of is going to beat out a well thought out, disciplined house hack that involves that sacrifice from that person.

33:13And then if you take that next another year or two and you still defer those retirement account contributions and you build up 30, 40,$50 ,000, I mean, this person is going to be very dangerous in the sense that they're going to be able to take a sales commission job, for example, that might have a lower base salary, but way more upside. or they might be able to buy a business or take a year and start that business idea if their expenses are low. That optionality and flexibility, even if it doesn't actually translate in a way that's specific to one of those examples, that flexibility, I think, will benefit that person so greatly that it will overwhelm the delay of the retirement account investing for three or four years.

33:51And this only applies to the very aggressive cadre of people in the personal finance world. This does not apply to the more moderate folks who would absolutely benefit from just beginning those contributions early and letting that compounding go to work. But that's the trade-off. People in some situations, you can't max out all of the order of operations financial stack and have liquidity to do entrepreneurial things, which can generate way better returns. And so there's a sacrifice and trade-off. And I think some people should make them. And it sounds like you are. Yeah. And by the way, I'm still, I'm still maxing, We're still maxing out our HSA, right?

34:23Our Roth IRAs. And, you know, just those two combined, you know, that's, that's, you know, 20 plus thousand into those kind of more traditional like parts of the order of operations. But one thing I want to touch on real fast is the difference between liquidity and stability. So you do talk about having cash available. I will say that I think once you build up a certain level of taxable brokerage investments, you're assuming you're not actually going to spend planning to spend all of it right within the next like one to three years. I don't have stability in my taxable brokerage account because it's invested in equity, but I do have liquidity.

34:50I have quick access to be able to sell those securities and convert, again, kind of turn assets into income, assets into cash flow. So I kind of think about liquidity and stability as being like kind of two sides of the same coin. Let me go back a few minutes. And you kind of answered the first part of it. But if I handed you that$1.25 million in cash for your FIRE portfolio, what would that portfolio look like specifically these days? So the$1.5 million, are you saying like continuing as an entrepreneur? Yeah, sorry. Right. And specifically in the context of the retiring as an entrepreneur, would you still hold the bond funds?

35:23Would you still hold these other items? Would you get more conservative in some cases? How do you think about it? Again, going back to that framework, you know, any money I'm planning to spend within seven years out of my portfolio would be in fixed income. You know, if I were four years in the future at one point two five million fire number, I would still be 100 percent equity. Just either, you know, one to two funds would be VT or a combination of VTI and VXUS. best. So that global stock market index, I wouldn't have like a, you know, a Humpty Dumpty portfolio of like growth value, mid, small, you know, I would just have like the one egg rather than the Humpty Dumpty version of that model portfolio.

35:57Okay, how about if I doubled it to two and a half million, which is the midpoint? Same thing. Yeah, nothing would change. How about 5 million? Nothing would change.

36:05Mindy Jensen:Is there a point where it would change? I would say the total portfolio allocation would not change. But my asset location considerations would definitely be in play. So if I were just owning US and international equity, I would want the international equities, right in the tax deferred vehicles. And I'd want the US equity in the taxable brokerage account, assuming I had space in both of them to get that, you know, that global allocation. So yeah, so most likely, if I had that global allocation, like my US equity would fill up the taxable brokerage, and my international equity would be in the, you know, the Roth IRA, the future traditional 401k, and things like that.

36:40But yeah, the total allocation wouldn't change even$10,$20 million.

36:45Mindy Jensen:And why would you put the international in the Roth and the U.S. in the other? So it's two reasons. So international equity in terms of dividends, the dividend yield is much higher than U.S. equity. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but I'm guessing at least double the dividend yield. And also there's a larger percentage of those dividends that are non-qualified, which would be taxed at ordinary income tax rates rather than the favorable long term capital gains tax rates. You're very clear on these two funds, VT and VXUS, for entertainment purposes only, of course. What is your thought process on some of the other portfolios that are coming out?

37:17Like some of the work that Paul Merriman puts out or the golden ratio portfolio, for example, that we talked about with Frank Vasquez. When and where would you shift away from just those two funds that you've emphasized here into something else? No, the only shift I would make is adding fixed income. Again, talking about kind of like that, you know, there is the constant duration bond funds like BND, you know, that's the total bond market ETF. Also those bond ladder funds. I guess the reason that I wouldn't start again, maybe a mean way to say like the Humpty Dumpty version of that, where you split it into all these different things and maybe go more into small cap value is really that's like optimizing like the top five to 10%, right?

37:52Like I really value, I call return on hassle or OH and also this idea of what I call the headspace premium. I tell a lot of retirees and they want this too. Mindy likes that headspace premium. Yes, I do. Most retirees want to become more passive with their investments and more active with their lifestyle. The thing is, the more complexity I've learned, the more I value simplicity. So I know that Frank has talked about, you know, like make it simple, but not too simple, right? Like that's kind of my version effectively at this point. And moving into retirement, my simple but not too simple would be VTI, VXUS, and then a combination of a total bond fund and like a bond ladder, which again, is kind of just like four kind of four little things hybrided together.

38:32What are cases in which you've deviated from this in your practice with the families that you work with? Keep in mind that I work specifically with DIY investors on the path to early retirement. So most of them are listening to Frank's podcast, which is, by the way, amazing. I love it. Risk Parity Radio. A lot of them are coming and saying, hey, I've listened to, you know, Paul Merriman, or I read, you know, I'm in the Bogleheads forums. So a lot of them come to me with their bias. I would just say this. They all have a bias toward optimization. All these things we're talking about are ways to optimize.

39:00They aren't like the fundamental kind of, if you think core and explore, like there's core and then there's exploring on the top 10, 5 to 10 percent, like everybody kind of has the same core, which is like, hey, like, let's say, you know, in retirement, you know, let's say like 50 to 80 percent equity, rest is fixed income. But then we explore in terms of like, OK, well, which products do we actually put all those things into? And I would say people come to me with a bias typically toward how they want to explore, but they all have the same core philosophy. So Frank and I can certainly talk about, you know, the correlation between pretty much all U.S.

39:30equity is very highly positively correlated to each other, whether it's like large, mid, small cap. Again, international and US has been pretty highly correlated to each other. When in terms of diversification, you're looking at negatively correlated assets. The only really negatively correlated asset I'm looking at are treasury bonds, right? Looking at different durations. And I would say we probably have the same overall fundamental philosophy, but we like to tweak in the top five to 10 % of optimization based on, again, going back to that risk need, risk capacity, and risk tolerance. I mean, there's a million questions to ask about portfolio theory.

40:02I guess the one that I'll bring to the surface is it seems like lately, in a lot of circles, the concept of small cap U.S. value stocks as a component, half of, for example, the equity position for the U.S. allocation in a portfolio and then half growth, for example, instead of a broad-based market index fund, is becoming more popular. I actually saw a recent article, I think Big Earn did, kind of refuting this with where he felt that that was not true. There was, you know, in the recent times, it had been less effective. But is that becoming a more a question that you're increasingly getting or noodling on when you think about portfolio construction?

40:41So I think we need to break out. There's really two people in the FI community. There's those with a high risk capacity and a high risk tolerance. And those are kind of like the logical thinkers. I'll actually share here briefly. So risk need, by the way, is the level of portfolio growth required to achieve your financial objectives. So effectively saying, hey, if my whole portfolio were in cash, would that be OK? And by the way, what's kind of ironic is a lot of people retiring in the FI community, they could put all their money in a checking account and probably still be fine because they underspend and under gift.

41:10But the risk capacity part, another objective measure is the amount of potential portfolio loss that you can sustain without jeopardizing your ability to maintain your financial objectives. So that's saying, hey, if I did go 100 % equity and it dropped by 50%, would I still be okay? Right. And again, a lot of people in the FI community, they have a high risk capacity. But here's the part that where those, you know, the small cap value and all that comes in, risk tolerance. This is a subjective measure, the emotional and behavioral willingness to endure market volatility and portfolio losses. And Scott, what you mentioned there, the people who are really into the small cap value, they have a high risk capacity and a high risk tolerance.

41:44They're very logical. They're like, how can I increase my risk adjuster return? and they're mostly looking at upside rather than protecting downside. Because as you know, if you're doing a small cap value tilt, like you got to be on that roller coaster for a long time to really for it to pay off. Like that's not something that you just put it in there for five years. And again, you know, Frank would say the same thing. Like if you're going to choose a small cap value and only be in there for two to five years, like don't, don't, it's like, that's a long-term play. But then there's the high risk capacity, but low risk tolerance.

42:11By the way, that's most of the FI community. Like that is most of what I see is, and those are the people going into like the time segmentation, the bucketing. Then we talk about Morningstar's research, Christine Benz, the 4 % rule. They have the ability to be 100 % equity most of the time, but they have such a low risk tolerance and a fear of spending. And of course, a fear of volatility. They have the scarcity mindset. Their grandparents went through the Great Depression and taught their parents to keep everything you have because you never know when you're going to need it. So I think that maybe we could break down high risk capacity, high risk tolerance investors versus high risk capacity, low risk tolerance investors, because those are the two people in this community that have a very different approach to investing.

42:50Who's going to be richest over the next 10 years? Well, definitely the high-risk capacity, high-risk tolerance people from a logical perspective. But at the same time, what's really funny here is that they have a confidence in their ability to adjust. But both of these parties, high-risk tolerance and low-risk tolerance, it's funny, they focus on education with a confirmation bias of what they already believe. So the people with a high-risk tolerance, they just get more educated about how to increase returns. And then the low-risk tolerance people get, they love when they talk about, oh, the 4 % rule becomes the 3 % rule.

43:20They act scared, but they're actually inside. They're actually really excited because they're like, oh good, I can be more safe. I can be even more conservative with my portfolio and stack. I'm going to assume no social security. You can tell I'm getting really excited about this because there's a lot of missing pieces in these conversations. I think the logical thinkers are going to be best off financially, but the less off in terms of, I guess maybe both parties will be less off in terms of really missing out on a lot of life because they're so focused on the numbers and they kind of put all the physical, mental, spiritual, relational health on the back burner because they're so focused on either upside or protecting downside and they kind of lose the forest for the trees.

43:54I think the guy who's going to be best off here is the one who retires with a portfolio they're comfortable with either way and then spends all of their time as passionately discussing the business that they're doing as you do, Cody, and has the liquidity, of course, to invest in that to some degree as opportunities arise and make sure that there's timeshare for that. The best investor doesn't spend money, right? 73 % of our community is going to do that, or at least consider it. Once they fire, I'm sure you're already seeing that as an entrepreneur with the tax advantages that accrue, the ability to drive revenue and actually take control of that income stream.

44:28And I can't wait to see how that's going to turbocharge for you the next couple of years. And I also want to just quickly add that I'm an entrepreneur, but out of the 150 people that I've helped retire early, over 90 % of them were employees their whole life, their whole career, right? So like, I love speaking kind of to this two sides. And those the ones who have been saving and investing for decades, you know, as employees, when they retire, they're the ones that typically go into the high risk capacity, low risk tolerance, because entrepreneurs naturally have a higher risk tolerance. So that's where we get into the heavy cash positions that I've got CDs and five different banks to make sure I hit all the FDIC limits, they would actually benefit from using annuities, but they're very anti fees and anti flexibility.

45:04So they just end up in this place of having all this cash in their bank account and you're not wanting to hire an advisor, which by the way, those are the big fish the advisors are chasing after. So there's definitely like that realistic tension of like, hey, I'm the person who needs the most help spending and giving, but yet the advisors who want to work with me that have an incentive for me to underspend and undergive based on how they manage my portfolio. It's a very hard part of this industry is working with those people who have the money to live their big juicy life, but have a scarcity that's going to be backed up by how they're paying their advisor, which I know I'll probably get a lot of hate mail on that little chat right there.

45:35But there's a lot of conflict in our industry that's thankfully slowly changing. I think that the folks that really highly defend the AUM financial planners or the financial planners that sell various products and generate commissions, they don't listen to BiggerPockets money. We've had plenty of ragging on those types over the years. The anti-advisor community is here in this podcast and the advisors are listening to other podcasts that are focused on the things they care about. Yeah, definitely. I guess that's a great question to wrap up on. Could you give us a brief overview of the financial planning industry that is a little bit more in depth than what I, my like off the cuff remark there and what it specifically you feel are the channels that people should be looking for when they're looking for a CFP?

46:15How much should one plan to spend on financial planning if they're avoiding the assets under the AUM types or the commission types? The two parts of this are which services do you actually want and only pay for those services, right? So if you want financial planning, you shouldn't be paying for investment management. If you only want investment management, I'll try to convince you that you need financial planning. But that's a big part is only pay for the services you actually need and are provided. The second part is if you want financial planning, there's only really three options, right? Do you want to work on an hourly basis where you just say like, as needed, I just, you know, I reach out like, you know, Nectarine is a, you know, I'm not affiliated with any of these companies, but hellonectarine.com, you can hire, you know, an advisor, literally just one hour at a time, right?

46:54Just to kind of as needed. Others say, hey, we'll do like 10 hours together as like a package. So there's hourly, there's project based, which is, hey, we're going to have a two to three month engagement to do a comprehensive financial plan. We're going to look at everything in your life with a number on it, right? We're going to give you like kind of a, what I call the measurable action plan, the map of, you know, what are the things we're going to do over this next year to optimize your financial plan. Then there's ongoing. These are the people who are saying, hey, I want somebody who like, he's going to keep me accountable, not just for saving and investing, but keep me accountable in retirement to actually say, hey, you said you want to go on that big trip?

47:23Did you actually go on to Airbnb and book the nice cabin and all those things? So if you need accountability, ongoing monthly is great. Like Abundo Wealth is a great firm that does that. It's like just a few hundred bucks a month for ongoing support. Project-based for a comprehensive financial plan, you should expect to spend between$2 ,500 and$5 ,000 for that kind of that full comprehensive two to three month engagement. And then hourly, you should expect to spend between 250 to 450 an hour, depending on their level of expertise and experience. Super helpful. Yeah, I just want to say here, even though I'm a certified financial planner professional, a CFP professional, I'm not your financial advisor.

48:01So the content I provide today does not provide financial, tax, legal or any professional advice. Right. So do not act on any of the information, the tickers that I talked about. Those are not advice for you, just the things that I would do personally based on my own situation. And certainly consult with a licensed investment, tax, or legal professional before implementing anything that you heard today.

48:20Mindy Jensen:Awesome. Cody, thank you for the disclaimer. And thank you for your time today. This was very enlightening. Where can people find you online? My biggest excitement right now is Measure Twice Money YouTube channel. You can actually watch real financial planning meetings with real retirees struggling with what we talked about today. By the way, I might even send one your way that you could interview a real retiree who retired last year and what the emotional behavioral elements of scarcity. And also, So if you go to measuretwicemoney.com forward slash book, you can sign up for just a simple email whenever that tax planning to and through early retirement book is coming out in September later this year.

48:57Mindy Jensen:Awesome. Cody, thank you so much for your time today. And we'll talk to you soon. Absolutely. Take care of you guys. All right, Scott, that was Cody Garrett. And that was a lot of fun. What did you think of the episode? I thought it was great. I love the passion for personal finance and the shift to aligning his career with that passion. and that allows him to pursue fire faster. So I think it's great. I think we need a lot more of these, you know, advice only financial planning folks in the industry. And I think it's great. And we're starting to see those pop up more and more and more with Hello Nectarine and Cody's firm and more like it.

49:29So I think it's great. And it was fascinating to hear that story shared from him.

49:32Mindy Jensen:I love his new definition of fire, financial independence, recreational employment. I think that is a great mindset to be in. And hey, I could be retired, but I don't want to be. I like my job. I'm going to continue. I am declaring myself fire, Scott. Financial independence, recreational employment. Me too. Perfect. All right, should we get out of here? Let's do it. That wraps up this episode of the BiggerPocketsMoney podcast. He is Scott Trench. I am Mindy Jensen saying time to soar, dinosaur.