Katie Wants to Quit Her Job. Can They Afford It?

23:30You have to wait until age 62 to claim that. Right. So you really just need to bridge your financial independence position until that point, at which point you'll also get Social Security within a few years of that as well. You at least plan to work the entire time. This is almost by definition a commitment to work to receive this pension if this is the working hypothesis. And that would allow you to then get the pension and Social Security. So that's a serious asset. You need a portfolio of another million plus dollars to produce$50 ,000 in spendable liquidity like this at a 4 % rule inflation adjusted.

24:03So that's a serious additional asset that you're building here on top of what you already got. I can't do the math in my head here and I don't have an engine to do it. But I wonder, based on what we talked about earlier, how long just the cash position works here and whether you don't get remarkably close to points in that bridge just by spending dividends alone and the interest from your checking account here if you don't invest that$280 ,000. So you're thinking if we were to turn off the automatic, like the reinvestment and just build up the dividends, pull that and then use our cash position for a while, that might be a good way to go with it.

24:39I'm saying that's an option. I think it's probably suboptimal. You probably have too much cash and you ought to invest it to some degree. I'm trying to present ways to help you think about the situation and how secure this is relative to your spending right now. Your big risk, or the way I think you ought to be framing your risk, is you're giving up what could be a$5 to$10 million financial position within a few years with this decision. If you want to spend$10 ,000 a month, basically forever, it's really hard to find financial rules of thumb that don't allow that in your position here. What you're giving up and what you should have the jitters about is millions of more additional dollars in wealth and a dramatically different lifestyle that could be taking place in five years.

25:22This is fire, right? This is the tradeoff of financial independence to some degree, right? But that's what I think you ought to be like, hey, we're making a real decision. It's that decision here. It's not we're going to run out of money at our current spend. It's that we could have this different life if we wanted to, but we're giving that up for fire, which is what everybody in the financial independence movement makes this decision at some level. and gives up the next bit if they realize this. Yep. And that's something that goes through my head a lot. And it's hard because you have this idea of, okay, work a few more years and be able to live more extravagantly.

25:57But at the same time, we have a young son. It's the only one we're going to have. And how much of that time with me traveling am I willing to give up as well? So it's very hard. I go back and forth on like work a few more years and have a lot more flexibility in life or spend that time with him now while he's young and he's our only one we're going to have, so.

26:18Mindy Jensen:Well, I don't think these are binary choices. I don't think it's either quit now or work several more years. You could take time off now and then when he goes into kindergarten, you can go back for a shorter amount of time or find a different job that generates some income that you can either use to replenish what you've taken while you're not working for three years or just build up your investable portfolio again. There are other sales jobs that you can do. Just because you've been in medical sales doesn't mean you have to stay in medical sales. Just because you've been in a traveling sales job doesn't mean that you always have to be a traveling sales position.

27:01Mindy Jensen:So why do you want to retire early? So before it was the idea of I had a lot of years where I had very successful years making my income and I've had to work very hard to do that and give up a lot of time when people were traveling or maybe enjoying material things a bit more than I have in my life. And it was kind of like, all right, if I get to this point between 40 to 45, I want to have time to figure out what brings me joy. I don't have as many hobbies as I would like to. I haven't traveled as much as I'd like to. I feel like I've been working so hard that I haven't had that freedom to actually figure out what I want to do in retirement, which I know is like I listen to, you know, all the podcasts.

27:48I know if you don't know what you're retiring to, then it's a problem. But since having my son now, a lot of it is I'm not sure if I'm going to enjoy being a stay at home mom, but I would like the opportunity to figure that out and be able to be there on field trips and be able to pick him up from school. I'll be like, how was your day? Like, that's all stuff that I'm not going to be able to do in my current job. And it's kind of like I had one thing I was going for, one life I pictured before having him in early retirement. And now it's kind of been like, well, maybe just being home and present is like what I want to start with and then figure it out from there.

28:27I think it's almost a different conversation. You know, this is just like I'm going to stay home for six months and try it out and then get another job. Like it sounds like this job is not compatible with your needs right now. And that's really the fundamental problem of what's going on here. And guess what? like that job is the highest paying, best opportunity you can get from an income perspective that's available to you right now, realistically. That's what it sounds like. Once you stop, that income goes to zero. It does not have to stay at zero. There are other ways to generate more income downstream that can get you there.

28:58You are giving up whatever that spread is as part of this decision, which is why it feels high stakes, because it is high stakes. It's millions of dollars in long-term wealth that you're making a decision about, but you've also set yourself up to have this option. That's the option, right? How much more is millions going to do? Maybe a lot. Maybe if your dream is to have something like a beach house or something like that, that's the decision you're giving up on this. But if you're not sure or it's not, then I think there's no way you can't take three to six months here and just kind of see how that goes.

29:28And after three to six months, if you decide, you know what, I want to do some kind of work, then you can go get another job. But really what FIRE has empowered you to do here is not work this job if you don't want to. your financial independence, and you can work something that's right for your stage of life here. There's a real cost to that, but you've paid that price with the years of very disciplined, smart moves you've made to get to this position in the first place. Yeah, it's very hard because it's not just my income. My work allows flexibility when I'm not on the road. They pay for our car, my insurance, my gas.

30:04There's a lot of perks that come, you know, stock options that it's like, oh man, giving all of this up is very hard. But I also traveling and being away from my family is very hard. I think just knowing like having the baseline of, okay, if I were to quit my job now at the end of this year, whenever it might be, we could continue affording what we're doing right now and then still give him the option. Like he loves his job, but like, I don't know if at 50, he's still going to love his job. So to still have him have the opportunity to retire early, like that is important to me. So I'm like, okay, if we're at a point that from what you're seeing, from what we're seeing, where it's like, we could support our current level of spending with what we have, then that provides some comfort to me.

30:53Mindy Jensen:My question goes back to Katie. It doesn't sound to me like you absolutely hate this job and you cannot wait to get out of it at any cost. It sounds like you don't want to travel anymore. It sounds like you want to be able to have some of the perks of like the perks are nice. The income is nice. I would give you a bit of homework to just think about it, not in the context of right now, I need the answer, but just for you, think about what parts of your job do you like and would consider keeping in exchange for it. Like you would do 50 % of your job for 50 % of the pay, then you don't have any issue at all because you're generating more than what you're spending.

31:36Mindy Jensen:You will still be able to save for retirement if you're making half of your income. You'll still be able to spend some time with your son because you're still going to, you'll have like 50 % of your job. Or if like 0%, I don't want any of it at all and I'm just not reading it right. But something to think about because a lot of people will go into their boss and say, hey, is part-time an option? And the boss is thinking, well, it's either full-time or part-time. So no, part-time is not an option. We want you here full-time. When the reality is, no, I'm asking, do you want me to stay part-time or do you want zero time?

32:10Mindy Jensen:Cause I'm going to leave. And sometimes the boss will change his mind when his only option is 50 % or nothing. Yes. The only issue that like comes to my mind with that is childcare right now. So if I were to cut my income in half. Like the amount that I would be bringing in versus what we spend on childcare, I don't know that it would be worth it at that point to even be working. And that's valid. I was a stay-at-home mom for eight years because my income at the time would have been the exact amount that I was paying for childcare. And I wanted to stay home with my kids. So that was an easy choice for me.

32:48Mindy Jensen:If you went part-time at work, could you go part-time in the childcare? I think finding it because because currently we have a nanny and I think, you know, that's what we want to do as far as child care goes until we feel he's ready for daycare. So I think the biggest issue would be finding a nanny who's also willing to only work half the time. Or maybe a nanny share. Yeah. Someone called me out of this recently on a YouTube comment, but it's like, why am I not hanging out with my one year old and three year old all day? Why am I doing this instead of that? that's just not my personality. I love my kids very much, but like I need to be doing something else in addition to not just hanging around my three-year-old and one-year-old who would drive me crazy the way I'm wired.

33:33If I was, if that was all day, every day, seven days a week, you share that concern at all for yourself to some degree as part of this transition. Is that informing things? Yes. We've had this conversation with this morning where I'm like, I'm scared to quit, but I'm also scared not to quit. Again, a lot of it is the travel aspect. If I could do my exact job, be working from home, see him throughout the day like I do when I am home, I would keep going forever. It's this whole leaving for multiple days almost every week. That's the hard part. But that's why they pay me to do this is that travel aspect of it.

34:06So, yes, I share that concern. I love my son. But wow, especially as he's becoming a toddler. It's a lot. I mean, just the sheer exhaustion that hits around seven o 'clock on Saturdays after a whirlwind of activities is unbelievable. I don't know if you guys feel this in your life with just one, you know, to magnify that whole dynamic. And, you know, it's wonderful. And it's just like crazy. People have strong opinions about that. Too bad. You can have strong opinions, whatever. I'm not going to do that every single day of my life. I want to take my kids out of school early and go to the zoo during some weekdays, have daddy daughter days, those kinds of things.

34:41Those are fun, but I'm not going to, that's not my everyday. And I think that's totally fine. But I think that there's a piece of this about what do I honestly want? And maybe kind of articulating what perfection looks like would be helpful for you on that front. Because you can imagine a state where you're not very happy with that overwhelming task now. And you're in this new position and not earning income. That's a risk that's financial and non-financial to some degree for you guys. Maybe there's something to think through there. And maybe, you know, to Mindy's point, which I think is excellent advice, maybe it's let's find out what the best alternative here is for me.

35:16If that's not really what I want, if I want to do some kind of work or cover child care to some degree, maybe there's a place where you can talk to your boss and say, can I cut my pay, take this job that is only for local situations here, have this region or whatever, trade with this person and take a pay doc and get a much better quality of life. Maybe you start taking looks at job offers that pay half or three quarters of this opportunity. And maybe you can take a month off or two weeks or however much PTO you have and try it out and see how you like the full quit version of that. And see, maybe you're like, no, I absolutely love this.

35:51This is wonderful. I'm going to do this with my days indefinitely. Those are all viable things there. But maybe those would de-risk what really you guys are worried about here. Not the, can we bridge this? which like, of course, we knew we knew the answer to that is a technical financial. Yes. Coming into the conversation, I think. What's your reaction to this rambling train of thought? You're not wrong. I think that just depends on the day on if I'm like, yes, I want to be home every single day with him. And then there'll be a day where he's just yelling at me all day. And I'm like, maybe I don't want this all the time.

36:26So it is hard. I think I just want the confidence to know that I could. You know, you're saying we came in and everything looks great. We knew the answer. I think he knew the answer. I think that I logically feel like we're okay. But my money history comes from like my family having money and then all of a sudden we didn't. So there's definitely this fundamental like fear inside me of having money and then it being gone. And I'm like the stock market, most of our investments are in the stock market. I know that it goes up if you give it enough time, but it's like it could be there and then it could be gone.

37:00So appreciate all the work he's done to like look at our numbers. I've done it for years. I track every dollar I've been spending for like 10 years at this point. So I know it's there, but it was like, I need the confidence of just one more set of eyes to look at this and be like, no, you guys are okay. So then I can like breathe and be like, okay, what do I want? Do I actually want to quit? Do I want to figure something else out? That's kind of where I was like, no, I actually do need you to look at this and tell me, even if it seems obvious to you.

37:30Mindy Jensen:Well, having a different set of eyes, having Scott's eyes and talking about the interest on your cash and the dividend payout and all of that is fantastic. That's not something that I have thought of, although I don't have a ton of dividend paying stocks. Just looking at your exact numbers,$1.8 million in your liquid financial portfolio, it generates about$72 ,000 a year if you're going off of the 4 % rule. You needed to cover a$40 ,000 gap-ish. So you could do that without all of Scott's fancy dividends and interest on your cash thing. That would be covered. How to think about when somebody's still working and somebody's not working.

38:13Mindy Jensen:And it's a total amount that you need. You need$115 ,000. You're getting X from Jesus' income. So then you need to bridge that gap. And that gap is easily bridged with the 4 % rule. It's probably easily bridged with the 2 % rule. So looking at these straight numbers, yeah, you're probably going to be fine, again, for entertainment purposes only. However, what would happen if the stock market crashed? It went 50 % drop. What would you do? Considering, hey, SUSE is still working. You have quit your job. The stock market crashes 50%. what happens to your mental state? Would you go back and get another job?

38:56Yes.

38:57Mindy Jensen:Okay. So your worst case scenario, to quote Joel from episode 11, your worst case scenario is everybody else's everyday life. So you could test this out and see, first of all, is that actually what you want to do? Yes, it is. Okay, great. Continue testing. You test it out and the stock market crashes. You're like, oh, I'm just going to go get a job. I'm going to get, you can get a job that bridges the$40 ,000. One thing that's been hard for me to calculate is like, if he retires early at 50, so we know how to have like our fire number, right, of what we need to go. If we both quit and at 50, neither one of us are working.

39:35It's like, okay, you have your fire number for the 4 % rule. I guess it's just been harder for me to be like, okay, well, if we spend this much money between me quitting and then him quitting, is our portfolio going to grow enough to then reach our original fire number that we had. Like, I think it's that calculation there that we try to do. And we've used like different calculators online. We've been using like a Coast Phi calculator to try and be like, okay, well, if we had us dying at what year. I essentially opened it up twice. And on one, I had us dying, you know, the money needed to last until I was 50 essentially.

40:15And then it shoots out what you would have left in your portfolio at that point if we were pulling whatever money we needed to bridge my salary difference. And then from that age, we ran it until 95, including my pension. And, you know, on the so on the second one, I opened I included what we would have essentially died with when I turned 50 and I decide to retire. And that's how I started the next calculation. Let's do this. You're saying in 25 years, am I going to be absolutely broke? That's the question. So in 25 years, we're going to have the house paid off by definition, unless you get foreclosed on or something crazy happens.

40:55But if we go into really fantasy land, you can always construct a scenario where you fail. So there's probabilities in all of these things. Let's take this mortgage payment to zero, which is going to be at that point in time. And you hold your other expenses constant for inflation. Your kid's out of the house and doing their thing at that age. So you have$7 ,000 a month you need to spend, and his pension covers$5 ,000 of that. Inflation adjusted, right? Yes. Once we're 62, not from 50 to 62. Once you're 62, yes. So let's say that you literally had nothing left. You would have to cut your expenses by$2 ,000 in that situation adjusted for inflation to cover this situation at age 62 before we get to Social Security.

41:36Yes. Okay. Right, because the pension is a real asset you're building. That's not what you want, right? And there's also like an intellectual dishonesty in the FIRE community to some degree, I think, for portions of them, which is where, oh, I'm fine with my portfolio going to zero if I can bridge it to Social Security and my pension with that. Nobody wants that as the outcome here. That's not going to happen. And you're going to course correct here. You are a clearly competent person making a significant income in a sales profession. So that's like the best possible FIRE kind of quasi quit my job thing.

42:10Surely that skill set to go and sell is not going to completely erode over the next couple of years. You can do that. It's not like you're an executive or a specialist in a technical field where your skills, there will be a different language or different evolutions of that that will be lost over time. You have a generalist sales toolkit that should be able to give you options downstream. My guess is you're not going to want to stay home all day, every day, doing nothing. Maybe you do that for a while and maybe for some days you do what you need to do during the day while your kid has childcare and you don't earn income.

42:45You can and maybe should do that for portions of this. And then maybe you have some kind of income producing side thing that you do that's fun to supplement this. Maybe you get your real estate license or something like that in there. But there's so many options for this where you go to zero base and only eat what you kill. I don't know what they use in sales. Maybe there's something there. So those are so many different options around all this. And then again, I think you should run this calculation. There's a way to do it, and I just can't think about it for modeling purposes. But you take your 1 % dividend yield, and then you take your simple interest on your cash, and then you circularly pull it down over the next couple of years with a realistic raise schedule for Jesus.

43:28and you say, do I actually ever run out of cash where I have to draw on the portfolio? That's like yet another way to think about the situation with your current spend. I don't know what the answer will be. Maybe, I think the answer is probably yes. At some point, if nothing else happens at all, then you have to finally sell an equity to fund some of your lifestyle. But I think, you know, if Frank Vasquez were on here, he'd be like, you guys got to start spending more. But I think that would be an interesting analysis on this as well, the circularity with your cash position. When spring hits, some people suddenly just want to declutter the garage, clean out the closets, and get everything all organized.

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45:12So instead of buying one giant 30-year policy you'll overpay for, you stack a few. Say a 10-year, a 20-year, and a 30-year layer. So your total coverage steps down as your actual obligations step down. You only pay for what you actually need when you need it. ethos is a platform that helps you find life insurance 100 online you can get a quote in seconds and apply in minutes there's no medical exam you just answer a few health questions online you can get up to 3 million in coverage some policies are as low as 30 a month that makes building a ladder genuinely fast get your free quote at ethos.com bpmoney that's ethos.com bpmoney application times may vary and rates may vary scott i was going to bring up frank

45:52Mindy Jensen:Vasquez, I'm glad you brought him up. Frank and I went through and created one of his risk parity portfolios in an account that I have. I started out with$10 ,000 and I allocated it the way that he told me to. I've got small cap, large cap, mid cap, gold. I can't even remember all the stuff that I have, but my portfolio and with the express purpose, I created this so that I could pull out the equivalent of 5%. I pull it out monthly. So it's like 5 % divided by 12 is$42 because it's a $10 ,000 portfolio. I pull it out. I have now, after pulling out since last July, I have$11 ,691. So I'm spending down my portfolio and it's still growing.

46:37Mindy Jensen:And I would encourage you to look at different portfolio makeups. Frank Vasquez has several that he promotes and believes in, and he's got sample portfolios that show what's going on in each one of those portfolios. But I've been withdrawing from my portfolio and I still have more money than I started with. And it's only a year and, you know, the market's been doing well. But I wonder if a different portfolio makeup might help ease your mind. What if you deployed 200K of this into that portfolio and practiced that as your withdrawal portfolio, for example? That could be one path to doing that as well.

47:12We're not going to recommend a specific portfolio with any of these things. But what like that's an idea for you to consider is taking this cash that's sitting here earning simple interest and putting it into a retirees portfolio and practicing the withdrawal math on that while spending yield from the other parts of the portfolio. For example, these are just tricks to get your mind to feel comfortable with the situation, not really like necessarily best practices in portfolio, because your problem is not do I have enough? It's it's how do I feel comfortable with the situation here? How do I more honestly state my fears around the trade-offs in the situation, which are not, and we're going to run out of money.

47:48It's, it's, am I giving up something that I might want more than this, this situation here? The hypothesis that I am coming to here for you guys, you can do your own hypothesis with this or tell me, is Katie, you're going to want a different job at some point that's more flexible, that are in some, some income. You're going to want to spend many days with your two-year-old and you're going to not, and you're going to want to spend some days or some parts of days doing adult things for your own and maybe earning a little money as part of that. And maybe that's really what I'm hearing you want more close than I wanna stay home all day earning no income with my two-year-old for the next several years until he goes to kindergarten.

48:25Maybe that's just more what you really want. I don't know. Does that sound closer? What do you guys think? I feel like maybe I don't know what I want fully either. It's just that those days when I'm gone are really, really hard. And so maybe I've just been so focused on, can I stop those days now or soon rather than thinking about what other options I could do for work or how else I could make some income. It's just been like for years, I've been so focused on just once I quit work, then I'm done. I'm going to retire early. I'm done. So I have never really thought about the alternatives to what I'm doing now.

49:04So maybe that's just more of what I need to spend time doing.

49:07Mindy Jensen:Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Take some time. It's not a five-minute decision, but take some time. What is it in your life right now that you want to keep? And what is it in your life right now that you want to get rid of or reduce? And have you filled out our goal-setting worksheet? Scott created a worksheet for setting goals and visualizing what it is you want your life to look like. So go to biggerpocketsmoney.com slash resources. It is currently the second item in the resource page. Download for free. We don't even ask you for your email address. Download that and take some time to fill that out.

49:44Mindy Jensen:That could give you some real clarity on what it is that you're looking for as well. I think the specific homework we have here is go through a bunch of ways that your portfolio can generate income and talk about the 4 % rule, withdrawal sequencing, what we can do with the cash that would make us feel good. that would be a portfolio that would maybe bump up the withdrawal sequencing on there. I think that the great advice that Frank Vasquez gave is create a test portfolio. And you guys are textbook for that, for this to try out, even with 10 ,000 bucks or something, to try something else, something out like that, that begins to build that habit.

50:15Katie, for you, I think that I would, one, encourage you to take a week of PTO and just stay home, even if you pay your nanny and just try it out, see how that goes. I think that would be a very, very low, low friction test. And just do that Monday through Friday and the week through the weekend, both weekends. See how those 11 days go for you and what whether that informs the next step. And it could be many, many people have. That's awesome. That's what I want to do every day the next three years. Great. Your situation that de-risks a big part of your decision here. If the answer is no, then what's the next best alternative?

50:50What's the next job? So I would literally begin applying for jobs or thinking about the opportunities out there and just understand what the realistic alternatives are. And then from there, you can then give the ultimatum to your boss about, hey, here's what I'm going to do. I would love to stay. I'm not traveling anymore. That's going to stop. Or it's going to be very infrequent, you know, very rare situations here. And here are the ground rules. I'm willing to take a pay cut. I'm willing to take these lower things if that's okay. And, you know, or my ideal state is two days a week, and I'm just closing deals or whatever, and I can get some percentage of the pay and only do that.

51:26Once you have that power, all they can do is say no, and you can walk away and you actually have a real alternative for it. So I think that would be the piece that would make this there. And if you decide you want to keep working, then the next piece is you got to think, how am I going to spend all this money that I'm going to accumulate? Because we're going to have a bajillion dollars by the time we have retirement. it, anything there. And we should probably update the life vision to spend it and to thrive a little bit more, whatever that means at the next level. Cause that's a real critique of people like us collectively on this, right?

51:54There's more wealth than, than it, there needs to be not enough spending in there. And that's going to be the next problem. If you decide to keep working,

52:00Mindy Jensen:that's good to hear. All right, Katie and Jesus, thank you so much for sharing your numbers with us and your situation. We really appreciate your willingness to be so open. It's very helpful. not only for us to give suggestions of what we would do in that situation, but also for people who are in a similar situation. So we really appreciate your time today and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Thank you, guys. All right, Scott, that was Katie and Jesus with a really interesting question. Can Katie quit her job? I think she can. I think we both came to the conclusion that she can, but I'm not sure that that's really what she wants.

52:40Mindy Jensen:Scott, what did you think of their show? Mindy, I think this is a classic. We're on the cusp of financial independence from a if nobody works situation. And the leap from going from$200 ,000 a year to zero overnight is overwhelming mentally for folks. It's clearly a first world problem. There's a bajillion people out there who would love to trade places with Katie and Jesus in terms of the financial problems that they've got in their situation. But yeah, it's a big, it's a big deal. And it's also a high stakes decision. Like I think that the fear of not of the millions of dollars in additional wealth that you give up by quitting a$200 ,000 a year job is very challenging mental exercise.

53:18The question of, am I going to be happy if I'm staying home from, you know, all day with my young child versus working is a very real conflict that people have, especially if your identity has been built around a career for all that time. And I think that some people are critical of that and that's fine. You could be critical of that, but that's just not how many other people are wired, myself included, in there. And I'm not apologetic for it. I feel like I'm adding value with what I'm really good at doing this during the days in many cases. And that's what I want to be doing while also spending plenty of time with my kids too.

53:49But it's just, that's not, it's not all day, every day for me. And so I think that's a big, a big fear there. And how am I going to fill that? And then there's the, here's my baseline spending. And maybe I wouldn't mind a little extra income to spend a little bit more if it came my way. And I think all those things are going through their minds. And that's a hypothesis about what you want. You got to test it and then refine. And they're in the position to go and test it. And I think that's the big takeaway I have.

54:12Mindy Jensen:Yep. And Scott, I've said many times I was a stay-at-home mom. I didn't leave a career. I just left a job that I didn't particularly even like. So it was a real easy decision for me. And again, no judgment on whatever you decide to do. Just know that that's like, make the decision based on what you want to do, not what you think you want to do. So I think Katie has some interesting homework before she makes this really monumental decision. But also, if she does make this decision and it turns out that's not what she wants, she can always go back to work. I think a lot of people could just consider this to be like, oh, I quit.

54:48Mindy Jensen:That's at the end. And no, you can go back to work. Who cares? One thing that we did not cover is healthcare costs. If Jesus were to quit his job, That would become a very big factor in their situation, which would require one of them to work in this situation or would begin making the math of financial independence a little harder, especially in those later years for financial independence. However, that's also partially offset by the 25 years on their mortgage where that number stays fixed relative to inflation and falls off entirely once paid off. So that's a nuance there that I think people should really think about when they're approaching financial independence.

55:24If you have a mortgage that's five years in, that likely offsets a big chunk of this risk in the health care space. If you don't, then maybe that health care risk is a real big one that you need to plan for and buffer your position, you know, anticipation of.

55:37Mindy Jensen:Yeah. Well, anybody who is considering retiring early needs to really, really look into how much it's going to cost for health care. Because like we've said before, Scott, the ACA subsidies are not designed for millionaire early retirees. So I can see an instance where that goes away. And then if you've planned on having those, that's an issue. If you haven't planned on having them and you do get them and they go away, then your plan is still in place. All right, Scott, this was a super fun episode. And to my dear listeners, if you want even more financial independence information, you need to visit our website.

56:10Mindy Jensen:Go over to biggerpocketsmoney.com. Check out our blog, our resources. You can listen to the podcast there. We've got a lot of stuff that we have been working feverishly on. And I say we, but it's really Scott. We've got a lot of free resources, calculators, templates for you to use to accelerate your financial independence journey. We will see you next Tuesday. And that wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. He is Scott Trench. I am Indy Jensen saying chop, chop, woodshop. If you've been putting off life insurance, I get it. The old process was miserable. Phone calls with an agent, a nurse coming to your house for a blood draw, then waiting weeks to find out what you'd pay for.

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