Clever, Confident, and in Control: Bola Sokunbi’s Blueprint to Financial Freedom

0:00I wanted to be able to stand on my own two feet. I wanted to be able to have my own money. And I also had a bit of fear in me because of what I had seen with those women as a little girl, where I'm like, wow, I need to have options so I can leave a situation if it doesn't serve me, if it doesn't work for me. I wrote books because I wanted to reach more women, and I wanted to have a voice that was relatable for women. I was like, it's okay for me to have my own voice and for women of color to have a voice out there. People think there are a lot finance books but they're not narrow enough welcome

0:50Bola Sokunbi:back to the bill pod where authenticity trumps authority now finances is not something that you know that's regularly spoken about In fact, you know, for a lot of years it was kind of taboo. But I am excited to talk about it today because we have a real expert. Not just any expert, she's a female bad ass. Her name is Bola Sukumbi. She is the founder of and CEO of Clever Girl Finance, which is really important. I want to recognize that, how important finances are and often not always spoken about. So just a little accolades for you. Not a little, these are a lot of accolades for you. You've been on Forbes.

1:27Bola Sokunbi:Forbes, wow, CNBC, Time, Business Insider, US Today, and NPR. I mean, girl, that is, that's, I mean, give it up. Yes, yes, yes. I love it. And you are a woman. Yes, yes, yes. I love it. And you are named one of Time's Next Generation's leaders and recognized by Forbes for your impact on personal finance. So that's a lot. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Jeez. I feel like it's a lot for you. And I was telling you before that our backgrounds are very parallel because I'm in the health insurance industry and you're in the finance industry. So that's super exciting. But let's take it. You know, the triumph is always great, right?

2:07Bola Sokunbi:The front. But I always like to know the back story because you just didn't appear where you're at. There had to have been a lot of hard work going into it. So let's take you back to like your childhood. Give me a little bit about your upbringing and your earliest memory of money and how it influenced you. So I'm the youngest of four kids. I'm the only girl. And my mom had me when she was in her 30s. She got married at 19 years old. So there's a bit of distance age gap with my siblings. But my childhood around money was quite interesting because my dad was much older than my mom. So my mom got married at 19.

2:44Like I said, my dad was already in his 30s and he was a multi double PhD holder. and my mom had her high school diploma. And so I, the very early years, just remember my mom being with me all the time. She took me to swimming lessons. We hung out all the time. And then there came a time where my mom's friends would come to the house and I would be in the corner, you know, just listening to them playing. And it would be conversations around, I have nowhere to go. And there would be suitcases. My husband is abusive. My husband has passed away, unfortunately. and his family has come in and taken over everything and I have nothing.

3:21And so I remember some of those conversations in the corner as a little girl and that definitely was a heavy influence on me. And I saw my mom responding to her friends, you can stay here, it's okay, you can be here. But something started ticking in her brain because she realized that, wait a minute, I'm no different from all these other women. I could lose my spouse. I could, you know, my dad was never abusive and my parents are still married, but she started thinking about possibilities. What happens if my husband is not here? I don't know anything about the family finances. I don't contribute to this household.

3:53So my mom decided to go back to school with me to college to get her college education and eventually become someone who was contributing to our household. And so for me as a child, it always made me want to be like my mom. I wanted to be able to stand on my own two feet. I wanted to be able to have my own money. and I also had a bit of fear in me because of what I had seen with those women as a little girl where I'm like wow I need to have options so I can leave the situation if it doesn't serve me if it doesn't work for me and then on the flip side my dad would always say things to me like um don't be a liability on any man and don't ever let a man be a liability on you right amen amen to your dad so those are like my earliest um when I think about my childhood and money that's a lot of what I remember just watching my mom come into her own person and eventually becoming the breadwinner of our family and then just listening to my dad's advice of being able to stand on your own two feet

4:50Bola Sokunbi:and you're so lucky that you have two parents in the household because I didn't grow up with two parents in fact my dad died when I was six years old and luckily you know my mom is my mom's very savvy thank god but I was brought up the same exact way the same thing like you can't be a liability and I did witness it that my dad died and for a lot of women at that time they were very reliant on the man and for a lot of women I mean even till today it's funny because I met this woman that is the um she's the founder of a non-profit organization for widows and widows are the the most they are the highest growing people that become homeless because they rely right you never think of this yeah they're victims which i didn't even imagine i never thought of my mom as a i mean they are really victims of um they just don't know their finance they don't know and now everything's like safeguarded with you know entry keys to get into whatever like everything is safeguarded like by um the internet or whatever yeah and a lot of women they lose their husband or they get divorced something happens they don't know where to begin with the finances and that's so interesting i wasn't aware of the homeless stat that that is crazy that is absolutely crazy i know it's it is common it's very common because part of why i started my business was because as i got older seeing my mom's generation i started seeing a lot of same things happening with people i knew or people i knew who knew other people yeah divorces i don't know where the the finances are abusive situation i can't leave because i don't have any money i'm trapped here and i'm like we need to we need to we're earning money we are savvy we're smart women are making different choices in this generation we need to know how to manage our money and get what is ours and position ourselves in a way that we don't feel trapped by anything or anyone yeah i love what your dad said you're not a liability vice versa you know whatever you come into the i think it's equal i i definitely don't think we've progressed where we should be as women um oh there's a lot of work to do oh yes Yes, I know.

6:50Bola Sokunbi:What was it? Until 1978, women couldn't buy a house without a man on there. Or open a bank account. That's insane. Can you imagine? Like, what planet are we living on, you know? But it's still, you know, you think we've come so far, but we really have not progressed as much as, you know, everyone thinks we've evolved. But there is a very segregated society when it comes to, you know, neutralize the neutrality between men and women. It's not. It's not at all. It's absolutely not. No. So I think it's very interesting that even though your parents are together today, you know, both the philosophies of both of your parents, which I'm sure helps in the long run for you, and I'm sure they're so proud of you.

7:27Yes, they are. So you end up going to college, right?

7:30Bola Sokunbi:And you got your degree in? Computer science and business. Okay. So computer science and business, and then walk me after college. So I went to college in Austria and then came to the States to graduate. I'm originally from Nigeria and coming to the US as an immigrant my parents are immigrants I mean I lived here as a child but never like as an adult right don't obviously and I just wanted to make my parents really proud because in order for me to go to college my mom and my dad had to make significant sacrifices so at the time I was in high school we were in Nigeria there was a lot of economic instability and so they decided that they were gonna send me abroad to college As an international student, I couldn't qualify for any student loans.

8:13They had already asked relatives to co-sign for my brother's education, their student loans. They didn't want to pass on that additional burden to any other family members. So my parents decided that they were going to, I guess, delay their retirement to send me to school. And that came at a significant cost because they were converting a much lower currency for me to be abroad. for yeah at the time austrian shillings euros and then for me to be here in the u.s so i got partial scholarships i it took me five and a half years to finish my college degree versus four because of the money situation right and so coming out of college i just wanted to i wanted to make money i

8:53Bola Sokunbi:wanted to make my parents proud i wanted to just hit the ground running not rely on them not rely on them be able to help that kind of stuff but when i graduated i didn't find a job immediately I graduated in March. So like, you know, there was, I was interviewing, but I didn't get a job. And the job I got didn't start, I think, until September. So I was like, I need money now. So I got a job at CVS. I was working at the photo department at the time. With a degree. Like, mind you, I know. My degree and minor in business. CVS, yeah. CVS. At the photo department. Making$5 or$5.25 an hour. And I did not care because I wanted to make money.

9:30And so when I eventually started my full-time job, I was like, I need to figure out how to save. I need to figure out what the best thing is. But these are all the things I didn't know. And my parents couldn't necessarily help me with because they're immigrants. They didn't know about the U.S. credit system. They didn't know anything about 401Ks. Right, right, right. And so I was in this space where, okay, HR says we have a 401K. We're going to give you some free money. I signed up. You're like, cool. Yeah. Cool, free money. All right. I was like, what else can I do? So coming out of college, I was just very hungry to save.

10:01Obviously money conscious too. Yes, I was money conscious. I was making$54 ,000 in New York City before taxes, so about 40K a year. It's very expensive to live here. If anyone is familiar with New York, you know that. That's why I was like, my jaw just dropped. It's not a lot of money. So I'm like, what else can I do to make money, save money, and just do something? and so I started getting really interested in reading personal finance blogs there was a lot of bloggers at the time podcasts were not necessarily as popular back then but there was a lot of websites on personal finance I would I would read those and I remember going to the bookstore and I was like I'm gonna find a book on personal finance to help me and I couldn't find any book by women on personal finance for women there were books by everybody knows who Susie Orman is on wills and trusts she had not yet written her women and money book and the one and there was the for dummies finance books but I was like I for some reason I wanted a book on personal finance for women especially if you're making that's what I wanted you're trying to like

11:05Bola Sokunbi:understand you're making what you would you say$54 ,000 yes so but you want to save and you want to live and then everything exactly you know and the reason why I wanted the for women because at the time there were lots of books on the girl's guide to this the girl's guide to that this I'm like okay so there should be a girl's guide to money right one but there wasn't and the book i found was a number one new york best time seller it was a personal finance book for women but it was written by a white man and i bought it anyway okay fantastic book but i'm like wow it's a little odd but okay yeah there isn't much out here for women um over time obviously that changed at that time i didn't know i wanted to start anything in finance i just wanted to save money and that's what I did so I started putting money aside I started learning about investing I started selling Avon to my mom's friends I started getting on different side hustles I would walk around the office to see who had if there were any office parties any retirement parties maternity parties birthday parties so I could or baby showers I mean so I could get the free lunch and take dinner home it got to a point where in the corporation I worked all the admin assistants knew me so whenever there was a party they would email me hey bola come to i'm there 117 you're like cool i'm there i'm like i will be there and i traveled a lot for work so i took advantage of not having to eat any not having to eat anything in my own house but eat everything so so now you're saving on so like i'm guessing where we're going you're saving on groceries i'm saving on groceries saving on eating out so you don't have to worry about that i'm being frugal with my with my money i wanted to get my own place because i was living a lot further from new york city and i was commuting in so i was saving to put a down payment on getting a condo and i just got really immersed and like wait a minute i want to try to save ten thousand dollars and then i hit ten thousand i'm like wait a minute i can save twenty thousand just from little stuff just yeah just from doing little stuff i started a i started a photography business along the way i got interested in photography so now you're doing avon and photography i had dropped the avon okay so now we're picking up photography i had all my aunties were sick of me at this point they're like listen no no more no more stop stop it and my mom was my sales girl she was like i love it i love it you got mom involved ever the whole family back then it was there was no uh you had to take the avon orders on the forms yeah you couldn't input it oh my god give my mom the form when you see auntie sue and sue can you have her fill out her order in this from the catalog in this form so I let that go by started photography business because I had gone to a friend's wedding in Jamaica and I had a nice camera her photographer came late and she was like please take some pictures I'm like oh wow I can make some money from this so yeah I started doing uh I put some ads on Craigslist back then I did a couple free weddings one of the couples gave me a$300 tip and then from there I started building a portfolio and I got to the point where I was charging five to seven thousand dollars for weddings and my highest earning side hustle year was seventy thousand about seventy thousand dollars doing my wedding photography and this so this is in conjunction with your with your job yes so I was working during the day travel from Monday to Thursday Friday night I would edit photos Saturday wedding Sunday baby baby or maternity shoot or family shoot or engagement session whatever whatever Whatever it was.

14:21Bola Sokunbi:Whatever. And then at night in my hotel room, wherever I was working, I would work on editing the photos on my work laptop. You got to do what you got to do. Yes. And so I started saving money. And so I saved this amount of money. And I was like, you know what? I need an expert to help me. I'm going to go talk to a financial planner. So I book an appointment and I go to this financial planner's office. The statistics around financial planners, I think it's like 70 or 80 % white male. It's a very high, even higher. I think it's like something like 80 % white male. And they're like sketchy. So I get there and I'm like, I've saved this money.

14:58I was really excited, you know. And he's looking at me and he's like, where'd you get this? Are you married? Do you have a boyfriend? And I got so angry because he looked at me like I was not capable of having anything without it being given to me by a man. so I left the office I did not uh take any of his advice and I was like you know I'm gonna figure this out myself so that's when I got really passionate about learning how to invest and then I started a blog and would write about you know saving to splurge and investing buying a new pair of designer shoes and investing buying my favorite Chanel handbag and investing yes and then so fast forward several years now I've gotten married um I'm a mom I have two I have twins oh How old?

15:47Now they're 11. Oh, wow. But at the time, well, they're newly born. And I was feeling a significant amount of postpartum depression. I didn't recognize it at the time. And I just felt that everything I did did not matter.

16:01Bola Sokunbi:Little babies are narcissists. They don't care about you. All they care about is getting their diaper changed. It doesn't change. Getting their bottle. I don't think it changes until I'm hoping it changes when they're 18 and out of my house. it doesn't change exactly so um I just started feeling like I wanted to do something that mattered to me and that would be important to my kids that they would be like you know what mommy did this and so it took me a while but when my kids were 13 months old um talking to a friend I came up with the idea of just talking about how I had invested and saved money because at that time I was seeing friends like I said earlier going through divorces right navigating difficult situations not having enough savings and so I just started talking about money and I was like I can call this clever girl finance because to me, clever, being smart about our money and that the girl part of it is essentially like a sisterhood, right?

16:46Hey girl, how are you doing? Like, how are you doing with your finances? Tell me about it girl. And so that's where it came from. So college through.

16:54Bola Sokunbi:I'm sure that your nuggets really, I would venture to say that you've helped so many people and you didn't even know. I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I'm sure you did. I'm sure just knowing about it. you know i had a friend i um she she liked to collect target gift cards and i like money on them yeah and i was like i don't understand why she's like well what happened was her husband had left her prior so she would keep all of these like gift cards it wasn't just target i think it was a whole bunch so just in case if anything ever happened she literally had thousands and thousands probably hundreds of thousands of dollars in gift cards just in case emergency kind of just in case wow and it wasn't alarming because it wasn't in a bank account or anything so she had all of these extra like gift cards just in case you know the shit hit the fan or didn't work out isn't that crazy that is crazy yeah insane she ended up getting remarried and i gave her a gift card like she was like that she would like that that's funny so then at 13 so at 13 months old you have these you have these twins at home you you um open up clever girl finance yes and what was that like um it there was no um it was just something to talk about saving and investing what i had done to build the wealth that i had built at the time and i also wanted to showcase other women who had done something like that or who were in the process of saving or starting a business just showing women that we have power when it comes to making money earning money investing money so I would just talk about all the things I was doing on my blog about budgeting and saving and investing and then I would interview a woman who was building a business or who had built a business or who had sold a business or someone who was in the process of paying off debts right or someone who had paid off a ton of debt and it just became something that people were drawn to because number one there were not a lot of voices of women of color or anyone that looked like me out there and there's still not enough today and I was a woman talking about money not reality tv not getting our hair done not sex not yeah which is fine to talk about we talk about everything as women but I was talking about money and money is something that a lot of women carry a lot of shame around because women are notorious for telling we're notorious for telling ourselves that we're not good with money, not because we're not good with money, but because we don't know yet.

19:26Yeah, lack of education on it. Yeah, and when you think about it, let's go back to our grandmother's generation, and I'll give you a general example, right? This is not all defining. But typically, you know, when you think about the 50s and the 60s... Those women didn't work. We didn't work, or we shouldn't work. You should aspire to marriage. Yeah. And they would gather their daughters, and everybody has a good recipe, home recipe from their grandmother, um here's how to do house making here's how to sew the the buttons on the dress and the dads would gather their sons and talk about business and cars and sports and you know stuff you're

20:02Bola Sokunbi:absolutely right in my family i was fortunate that didn't happen my grandmother worked am i like that but it was for a different like a different whole different reason but yeah you're right you're absolutely right so like i said general they were bred no they were bred to believe that you you learn this and it gets passed down right and of course as women we have that nurturing spirit or gene in us. That's just part of who we are. And so it is, we just, there is this assumption of what a woman's place should be, right? Get married. Yes, you can work. It's modern times, but your first obligation is to your home and to your kids.

20:33Don't get involved in the money matters. It's true. It's absolutely true. And don't, you know, and I'm like, this is a different world because women are choosing to be single mothers or sole household earners breadwinners um women are choosing to work you know get second jobs support their households alongside their partners if they have a partner and so we're in this space where we're making more money than our grandmothers even with the gender wage gap but we need to know how to own it and manage this money and be involved in our family finances even if we're stay-at-home moms absolutely because at the end of the day that's our money and i'm here taking care of our kids in our house yeah so i need to know what's happening to our investment yeah i'm gonna advocate for our

21:18Bola Sokunbi:money our yeah it's not yours you and me i like to say what's mine is like what's yours is mine but what's mine is mine yeah that's my favorite role um i don't think that answered the question no no you didn't know you did yeah so you've written so in addition to that you've written best-selling books so finally there's an author out there right that resonates with women women of color but i think most importantly like you have these books that are very educational because like we talked about from the beginning there is not a lot of evolution for women and understanding finances and just managing our money in general so let's talk about a little bit about your best-selling books yes so i wrote books because i wanted to reach more women and i wanted to have a voice that was relatable for women like i mentioned the the book i found was written by a white male fantastic book i read that book to shreds i bought a new copy and i read it over again it was very foundational and instrumental to what i learned about finance but i was like it's okay for for me to have my own voice and for women to women of color to have a voice out there um there are people think there are a lot of finance books but they're not narrow enough yeah um if you compare personal finance books to other genres or niches they are not narrowly enough right I um my second book is a book on investing it's called grow your money and at the time I pitched this book to my publisher they were like oh well you know find another tell us there must be another personal finance book on investing for women so do some research and let's see what's out there because when you propose a book they want to know what your competition is how you're going to angle the book and so I went on Amazon Barnes and Nobles and all these websites I found investing books written by men the last investing book before I wrote that one written by a woman was 10 years before wow a little outdated 10 years yeah still valid information but it just goes to show that our we still don't have enough of our voices in this space i'm one person and so my mission with my books is to spread as much knowledge as possible but i also tell other female finance experts business women like yourself there's not a lot of women in our space a book yes i wrote i did write one actually right it wasn't about financing it doesn't matter your experience matters write a book about being an entrepreneur about being a mother about you know investing about personal finance put your voice out there because there's a romance novel that comes out every 15 seconds with a fabio and a agreed but there's not a lot of women in our space not in the health insurance industry and not in the financial space there's just not it's so it really boggles my mind because well I know why I know because I'm in the space I don't you know maybe you agree or not but like in my space it's the um it's the hours like it's the grind it's the hustle and like you said you know going back to the way that you were raised and fortunately I wasn't raised like that so like grinding and hustling was just in my DNA from forever but for a lot of women and I see this I see their journey they get in they're young but what do they want to do they want to get married and what happens when they want to get married they want to have children so then for some reason the career becomes less important and they just don't evolve into the next step for me i did all of it in the business like i wasn't going to compromise that but women just for whatever i'm not for whatever the reasons i stated amongst being the mom shaming and you know the the hustle and the and the stigmas there's not a lot of women in our space there isn't a lot yeah but the ones that are good they're good girl they're good yeah they are and And for those of us who are in the spaces, we should all, everybody should have a book.

24:55Bola Sokunbi:I agree. And I think their voice, I mean, why do you think I started publicly speaking? Yeah, exactly. A book, a podcast, something that. I started it because of young women. Exactly. And really wanting to empower young women. And I wanted young women to feel that they can do and have it all. Yes. So you can be good looking. You can be a good looking mom who goes to the gym and has a running business. Like there's no, there really is no barriers. We can break barriers. You can have small children. and run a business. You can do everything. But I think sometimes women, we want these things but we allow other people to convince us where we should be.

25:30I agree. The naysayers. The space of a woman. When I started my business, I was working full time. I had my photography business. I had two small babies and I was starting Clever Girl Finance. And you still wanted more. It didn't make any sense.

25:43Bola Sokunbi:But you still wanted more, right? Like I always, I have my plate full, literally on my plate full all the time but then like that's not enough so I'll just add another project. it was not enough like no sleep no it was all these things that were causing me grief in my life minus my kids was not enough and i had an aunt say to me she was like what is all this isn't your husband working are you having are you having money problems like no i'm like no auntie i want to do something for me but what about your husband what about my husband i love how they group us together like what's about my husband i love when they say like they group us as like you know we're no we are a pair but I'm also an individual outside of my husband I earn my own money I can make my own decisions but you're right I mean there's just not enough education so your book focuses on is it like a case study do you talk about specific ways to help women like give me like a breakdown of what the chapters are are like and like the takeaway in the little nuggets so I have five books I'm working on my sixth book and each book is about it's I share my personal story.

26:45I share stories of other women who have saved money, paid off debt, invested, started businesses. And it's really the first book, for example, starts with all the foundational things, adjusting your mindset, learning how to budget, learning how to negotiate in your career, learning how to pay off debt, beginnings of investing. And the second book is really focused on investing and building an investment portfolio. And then my third book is called The Side Hustle Guide. It's like, yes, you can have a side hustle or start a full-fledged business and be successful. Here are all the things that I did with my businesses that helped me succeed that you can take as a blueprint to create your own plan.

27:19The fourth book is my personal story where I talk about just my personal experiences building a business and building wealth as a woman. I talk about criticism I have received, one of which is I'll give a really quick story. So I did a podcast and one of the things that really helped my business grow when I first started was talking about coming out of college and saving money. So I saved about over$100 ,000 in about three and a half years and I shared that story and it went viral So it got carried by a lot of outlets and I remember doing a podcast interview but it was virtual and It was on the radio not a podcast a radio interview And I was they invited me to talk about my savings story.

27:58How did I do it and during commercial break? They forgot to put me on mute so I could hear their conversation and they were like she probably has some guy that funded her lifestyle please how was she able to save a hundred thousand dollars on a 40k salary i call bs whatever but you invited me to your radio show to inspire your audience about being able to say but you yourself do not believe the story but they didn't realize i could hear them did you say something no you did i was going to say something but remember was a radio show and i was like if i cut off this interview then i do a disservice to the people that my story is actually helping on the other side.

28:35You're definitely the bigger person.

28:36Bola Sokunbi:So I said, what would Jesus do? You got to take him notice. Because I'm an Aries. I'm fired. Yeah. See, I think I would out him on air. I didn't even want to. I just said, you know what? The women I came with, the people, women, whoever I came here for my story to reach, let me do that and move on. And so my book just talks about different experiences I've had. There was a time where I thought I wanted to raise money to scale my business. This is also earlier on. Wasn't sure what direction I wanted to go. I wanted to create a free platform, but I couldn't figure out how to get there, which it is now free.

29:10And so I went through Techstars, which is a really huge incubator. It's like Y Combinator. It's out of New York City. It was a big deal for me. And I remember talking to investors, investors who were focused on women, focused on diversity, black owned, brown owned. and it was like what white person are you trying to copy do you have kids don't talk about it it sounds like too much baggage what does your husband think about all this personal finance for women my wife was a cfo and she doesn't give a damn about her finances i i had 90 meetings and 80 of them were bs 80 of them were me asking what would jesus do so i don't clap back well i

29:54Bola Sokunbi:I don't even understand. Like, what do they just not want you to be real? What I realize is that in the VC investor space, it's a very, and I have nothing against white men. It's a white male dominated industry. And they invest in what they can relate to. And I'm a black girl with two kids. Talking about personal finance for women. This is my life. Yeah, I get it. What is that? I get it. So just going through all of that and, you know, oh, I think your business is cute, but how far are you really going to take it? I had one woman who was focused on women-owned businesses. And she said, you know, when you come to meetings, you should put on some lipstick.

30:31Wear some high heels because it will make them take you seriously.

30:35Bola Sokunbi:And I looked at her. Another woman giving me that advice. I was like, wow. No, sis. This is who I am. We're coming as we are. I'm a mother of two-year-old twins. This happened to me when I first got into the insurance space. I didn't know that it was male-dominated. I mean, I got into it just because the economy, whatever, the economy crashed and I ended up in this like space that I was never supposed to be and I was supposed to be a lawyer. So I get into this space, had no idea. I go to my first like sales meeting with like all these leaders and there was these two older white men. I'll never forget this.

31:06Bola Sokunbi:I sat down and we were talking and he goes, you're cute, but you would do more if you changed your look. Now I'm 25 at the time. I had a master's degree. I already had, I had one child and I'm like what does that even mean like what do you mean change your so you want me to change who i am to accommodate who them it made absolutely no sense i mean still i struggled with this today like change your look a little maybe if you look like this but like no no being who you are is what made what you're doing exactly so that's going back to the question you asked me that's what my book choosing to prosper is about and i have a chapter in there called my rich husband because Money Magazine did a whole feature on that story, the$100 ,000 saving story.

31:52And like I said, it had gone viral. And people just, at the end of the article, they talked about, she started a side hustle. She was saving. All the things I told you earlier on, they talked about all of these things in the article. And at the end, they said, Ambola lives in New Jersey with her twins and her husband, who is a physician. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? So I saved this money before. And again, we're talking about$100 ,000.