How CAA’s Top Agents Built Today’s Biggest Tours w/ Rob Light & Rick Roskin

32:35You're trying to target all different ages and demographics to try to get everyone there at the same time. I think that's why I love Coachella so much is because I feel like I can go there and discover things that I did not show up for, but it's there. So, you know, if I'm walking past the tent, why not go inside and check it out for a little bit? And then maybe I become a fan. But I think one of the things that I've been hearing from some of our live music reporters here is that there are people showing up later and later to festivals during the day, which means that those baby artists who are at the bottom of the billing and at the top of the day are maybe having less crowds.

33:13I mean, they've always had very sparse crowds at that. But I'm wondering, do you still think that for your emerging artists at CAA, that being on those festival lineups is still worthwhile as it once was? Well, I've said this for years about those slots. And this is where agenting really plays a role in the artist development of a career. Part of getting on a festival is being on the poster. You want to be part of that. Yeah, true. playing at 12 or 1 or 2 o 'clock may not be great but a great agent is going to stop and say how do I get back to that market within four or five months of having done that gig because the two or three thousand kids who might have seen me and have told their friends now want to be able to see them on their own and so to just show up anywhere and play one date at two o 'clock and then disappear for a year is bad management bad agenting if you're going to get one of those slots how am I going to take advantage of that moment and make other things happen off the back of it what am I going to do on social media am I going to show up at late night events the beauty of Lollapalooza is all the late night club gigs so all those bands get to find places to play and um so I think there is a real it's where the representation comes in and taking advantage of a moment and unto itself no it's not the greatest spot in the world but if it's done right and you really have good people around you you can really turn it into something and and you can chart the bands who are on early and then played six or seven o 'clock and then four years later headlining that that's the track I think the headline slot is such a fascinating thing there's so few artists who are able to hold that especially at one of the premier festivals like your Coachella's of the world your Glastonbury's I'm wondering in those negotiations when someone's approached you and said, you know, we want your artist to headline.

35:05I know you've done this with Beyonce. What are some of the things that you can negotiate back and forth? Like, is it stuff that she can bring on stage? Is it the fees? Like, I know there's so many considerations. So can you give us any sort of peek behind the curtain and how that works? I don't want to get into the specifics of a deal. When Beyonce did Homecoming, which I still think might be one of the greatest ever, you know single performances at a festival she really wanted a second stage and they had never done one it was the first time they ever let an artist do it and um she had a vision and to her credit in rehearsal she brought Paul Tollette down to see it what she was going to do um and he said I'm going to let it happen well now it's sort of commonplace to do it Gaga took it to a whole new level this year in one of the most, you know, epic performances at a festival.

36:00So, yeah, you're always looking for those opportunities. The secret sauce to Coachella and a couple of festivals is also the YouTube broadcast, because worldwide, Coachella is now a worldwide moment. Everybody who's not there is watching. And so you're not just talking to the 100 ,000 people, you're talking to millions of people around the world. Glastonbury does that. La Pollute Lucid does that. And those moments are unbelievable. You get to talk to the whole world. And the audiences are worldwide. I mean, Carol G on Coachella. And then, you know, you look at Blackpink who did Coachella. I mean, there's so many, you know, artists that are, you know, global.

36:47And that's also great for our business. I mean, it's grown our business incredibly, not only domestically, you know, as foreign artists come in here, but the same way pushing out, you know, American artists around the globe. It's what's most exciting about what's happening right now. And one other thing that's cropped up in the last five years that presents a really interesting opportunity for artists in the live music space is Sphere in Vegas. What are the special circumstances that you have to keep in mind when an artist that you're working with wants to play Sphere? I mean, it's such a unique venue and such a unique experience that you really have to have a vision for what you're trying to do and understand what you're trying to convey.

37:31I think the more shows that play and the more people see it, they understand it better and everyone uses differently. I had the privilege to be there before you two even opened and Zach Brown came with me. He wanted to see it and literally walked out of the room and said, I'm playing here. Like, I know I have this in my head. I see exactly what I want to do. And now, you know, he's going to be doing eight shows there in December. But it takes a visual artist and an artist who really understands what they're trying to say. And I think you two did a great job opening it. The Eagles show was fantastic.

38:08You know, what John Mayer did in creating the film behind the Grateful Dead show or the Denko shows, absolute genius. I mean, he really took you on a trip for those four hours.

38:21And my hope is that people who see something in this sphere just get excited and want to see more music. Because I think if you have a good experience in a concert, you want to do it again. The epitome of probably, that is going to open the door to a lot of artists is the Backstreet Boys. You know, they, you know, with their management, they were playing just a regular showroom there and someone said let's go and they created truly one of the most fun nights of music yeah I went there it's fun it's really fun and and the visuals so fit who they were and everyone there walked out with a big smile on their face and um and that's what you want to see happen and I have no doubt there's a pun uh no doubt going it's going to create the same environment people are going to walk out going wow that was incredible yeah so um But similar to a giant festival, you're eventizing an experience where you can say, I was there.

39:17I saw you two in the first show at The Sphere. And you're creating and eventizing something and making it so much larger, which is what The Sphere is. It's just so much larger than a regular concert. When I saw Backstreet Boys, I mean, they were celebrating the 20th anniversary of Millennium, their album. I thought that that was such a great way to remind people of their greatness, of what they did 20 years ago. And they also introduced Millennium 2.0, the second iteration of this album, while they were doing that. And I thought that that presented such a great opportunity for a legacy artist to kind of create an event around an anniversary and to kind of drive attention back to one of their greatest moments.

40:04but I feel like there's a lot of opportunities right now for legacy artists that are really interesting. I saw Abba Voyage in London, gosh, what, a year or so ago? I'm wondering what you guys think are some of the exciting opportunities on the landscape in live music for your legacy artists? Well, legacy or heritage or whatever we call them, they never go away. There's something about music that literally defines your youth and so been millions of articles written about the fact that most people consume music between 16 and 25 that's the soundtrack of their life right it doesn't mean they won't hear a new thing here or there but they really build their body of work so you know someone in my 60s the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and the Who were what formed my childhood someone today who's 20 it's going to be taylor swift and and dua lipa and and sabrina carpenter and you know conan gray and all these you know the weekend and 20 30 years from now that's going to be their artists that they look at and can't wait to go back to to feel young again because it makes you feel young and that's the power of music no other art form transports back in time so how do you take advantage of those moments you know you need artists who are creative i'm not a big fan of of anniversaries past 20 because i don't want to date the audience i don't want when you say 50 years then the audience immediately looks in the mirror and goes oh shit how am i so i remember being there 50 years ago yeah so i i'm not sure i'm always an anniversary person yeah but i love when artists celebrate who and what they are you know paul mccartney does but he he's a beetle and he owns it and those shows are are incredible you know bruce never fails to give you that that that same experience um we finally convinced uh john mellencamp to do a greatest hits tour so he's going to go out and sort of do you know that that incredible catalog of music the way the public wants to hear it and uh and so finding a to market it the best part is you know i went we have the privilege to work with acdc uh along with chris dalston and and if you went to the show last summer in the stadiums it was three generations it was grandfathers fathers and their sons all watching this band do this incredible rock show and um that's the beauty of music that's when legacy really kicks in when you start to bring And there were a lot of young girls at Backstreet Boys, you know, moms bringing their daughters to see it.

42:46Also, you know, something social media, which obviously drives, you know, a younger audience and pop music. But you saw with the Goo Goo Dolls, who we don't represent, and the TikTok explosion of Iris. They had the biggest year in their career. Ever. Ever. so it can work other ways as well um and you see bands take hold and grow um like we've never seen before which is also really fun and exciting and it's totally genre-less that you're seeing this happen it's hard rock and metal and it's pop like with the Backstreet Boys and Gouda I mean it's it's incredible and even the whole Grateful Dead thing I mean it's like the audience is you know which is they've been around for 60 years.

43:41And you see where that is headed now and what the age limit of the audience and half the people haven't even saw a show with Jerry Garcia. Yeah, so true. I mean, we were talking earlier about how artists are really upping the production value of their shows, going up to, you know, sometimes up to 60 trucks worth of equipment that they're lugging around with them across the country on their tours. I mean, we're also talking about the rising costs of touring. I imagine that it makes it really hard for an artist to make a statement and to keep up with everyone, but also still make money, I imagine.

44:15Is that an increasing challenge for your artists to be able to make money on their touring? And how does that differ depending on how big the artist is? Like are big artists making tons of money and small artists are just scraping by the whole time? Like tell me a little bit about that. Funny enough, I think the economics are similar as you're carrying so much on the top level and just the expensive when you're not making as much on the lower level. It's I would say artists are doing just fine. That's a great thing. You wouldn't see them all on the road. At the same time, it's management. You have to manage what you carry, how many people in a crew that you carry.

44:57You have to manage, you know, as Rob said earlier, how long drives you're doing, how many days in a row, how many shows per week, all the things that we factor in to building a tour and building a tour budget. And then kind of figuring out how you price it out. Do you need some of these massive tours have two rigs? They have an A rig and a B rig and they jump from city to city ahead of the next show, which saves money in terms of setting up production. In stadiums, you'll notice, if you not pay attention, a lot of back-to-back shows in stadiums. So ACDC can share the stage with Billy Joel back-to-back somewhere to save costs and not having to entirely put up all new steel and terraplast on the floor of the stadium.

45:47So there's ways that we're trying to figure out how we can, you know, save costs and be smart as we kind of route and book tours and working with promoter partners to figure that out. and not everybody needs um the giant productions you know bruce springsteen has one video screen and the music delivers so for a lot of these artists it's just finding the right setting um and being aware of who your audience is and what it is or then creating a package the charlie xax choice of on package it was one stage one set and they came together and figured out how to use it together and everybody did great so uh costs are going to go up um sort of what drives ticket prices but a lot of smart people out there trying to make it work and not everybody is trying to compete with the next person um now if you're taylor swift or beyonce you've created this holier than that big event so you sort of have to live up to that in a way and sometimes I think that's why artists totally switch and just go play small because they realize they can be intimate and create the same sort of thing.

46:55So we're always trying to give artists different options on how to go out there. And I mean, as well as the cost of touring rising, we're also seeing ticket prices rise as well. I know that Bruce Springsteen did try dynamic ticketing a few years ago, and that led to some of the tickets ending up being thousands of dollars. I'm wondering now a few years later like reflecting back on that how do you feel about dynamic ticketing as a model for big tours bruce got a really bad rap because at that same time that that one guy bought a ticket at a high price elton john and the rolling stones were charging tickets for twice the price but because he was a working man somebody took a shot at him um there's always going to be supply amount there just is and what we've tried to create and and all the ticketing companies have tried to create it is the closest way to be fair but where the money's going to the artist right if we're going to do dynamic pricing and you're buying a ticket at a higher price but the artist is getting paid he or she deserves that they've built that career what we hate is when you know scalpers and bots and stub hubs and all these middle people now are making money with no skin in the game they did nothing other than got a ticket and now they're reselling it the artist doesn't see any of that money so some of that allows for these bigger productions you know the platinum and the vip helps drive the ability to do these great shows and uh and if you look at a lot of artists they're still putting out tickets at 175 125 at the top to allow some of their fans to still be able to afford to go, which I think is great.

48:39But I'm a fan of dynamic pricing simply because it allows everybody to be equal in the process of if I can afford it, if it's the show I want to see, I get to pay for it. But I want to see the artists get paid. I don't want to see some outlier, you know, carpetbagger get paid. Yeah, arbitraging tickets somewhere, you know, which definitely is not fair to the artists or the industry in general. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, the federal government is attacking Ticketmaster on multiple fronts right now. This includes the FTC suing the company, and it has to deal with resale. I'm wondering, do you think that Ticketmaster should play a part in resale?

49:17And if they do, does there need to be a cap on the secondary market? you know on platinum ticketing most artists have a cap on what they allow okay um the tickets to sell for whether it's two times value you know usually is that's the range two to three times value um so even if the secondary ticketing market exceeds that it doesn't feel like um it's so you know harsh um but as far as uh the secondary ticketing market isn't going anywhere this was want to rob stories but i'm gonna i'll tell it um years and years ago uh acdc was doing a tour and they go out on the road and they're like we're going to sell all tickets paperless so you're going to have to walk in with your credit card scan your credit card at the door they're going to see your name you go into the venue and we're like they're going to beat scalpers and they're going to finally win what ends up happening the scalpers send gift cards to their own people who bought tickets and they walk in with a gift card scan the tickets and they beat you know acdc's brilliant idea to get rid of scalpers they are always going to find a way to get ahead be it bots be it ai whatever it is our responsibility as agents is to figure out ways that as much money stays with the artist and that's the job of the promoters and be it live nation or aeg or any festival or anyone promoting shows is that we do our best within anything we can do that makes sure that the artists are being paid for what they're doing.

50:56That's our job. Yeah, and the DOJ is also going after Ticketmaster for antitrust violations. Could you guys actually foresee Ticketmaster and Live Nation getting broken up? And if so, how do you think that would affect what you guys do in the touring market moving forward? I'm not going to comment on an ongoing investigation or what may or may not happen because I find predicting the future is sort of a fool's era these days. That's fair. After the pandemic, that is fair. But here's what I will say. And Rick and I have worked together over 30 years. The industry changes in waves that nobody can anticipate.

51:33And we adapt to what those changes are and try to get ahead of them. And if you go into it with one mindset, I'm going to do what's best for the artist and what's best for the fan, because that's that that is the holy grail, putting an artist and a fan together. If those are what I'm working towards, we'll adapt to whatever happens and we'll push back against it. I don't know what the outcome of the DOJ investigation will be. You know, there are things that that I think all of us would like to see changed and have certain venues operate and how sports leagues operate. You know, it's impossible to get dates in April and May because of the playoffs because the leagues won't compromise in terms of what dates they can hold.

52:14We deal with it. You know, would I love to change that and say pick a date and let us have the other ones? Of course. And we fight it every year. But if we keep our mission in mind, which is help young talent grow, help superstars make the most money they can, help legacy acts stay relevant as long as they can, and we make sure the fans having a great experience and feels connected to their artist, then that's our job, and we'll adapt. It always feels like people say, well, the industry's going to change. It's not going to look the same. At the end of the day, there's still somebody sitting in the front row, screaming their head off, having a great time, and for the foreseeable future, that's never going away.

53:01And as a representative of the artist and ultimately fans, is just transparency. People just want to know what it is that they're getting and that it looks clear as to what they were promised when they bought a ticket or whatever. And the art is the same thing. So as long as there's transparency, the business will continue to roll. And so before I end our conversation, I wanted to do a little bit of a rapid fire question round for you guys before you guys take off. So my first rapid fire question is, what is the craziest request you've seen on an artist writer? I've seen so many, I can't remember all of them, to be honest.

53:44So my memory is not that good. I will say that once a manager asked at a hotel for 1 ,200 thread count sheets. I thought that was a pretty good one. It's funny that it's the manager in particular. What is the most shocking live music moment that you've watched from the crowd? I assume you mean shocking, good or bad. I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to tell you good because I I've always looking for that moment where an artist and the audience are so in sync with each other. And, you know, I get asked my favorite shows and I always say three or four of them. But Bruce Springsteen had split from the E Street Band for about three or four years.

54:22And then they came back and they played 13 nights at Giant Stadium. Unprecedented even to this day. And he walks out. He does an incredible show. the band's back together and he hadn't played Rosalita in 10 years which was sort of one of the signature songs and um does the set does the first series of encores goes off comes back out and see I'm getting goosebumps already and all he says to the crowd is what do you think is tonight the night and 60 ,000 people knew exactly what he meant and when he hit the first chord of Rosalita I thought the building was going to fall down it was so loud and those moments that's what it's all about you know that that magic moment that you just nothing else can capture and so uh um yeah I think about that all the time I live for that those moments and I gave you 20 examples of that when you know a special guest comes out or an artist comes out and sings with another artist or just something magical happens uh and those are just undeniable okay how could I top that what's a show that marked a turning point in your career well for me it was um it was convincing barbara streisand to go on tour after 27 years and um uh being there that first night um with her it was again one of my my favorite moments but that was a pivotal point and to watch that unfold and watch this genius go out and sing again was uh truly magical but you know the flip side is every time you walk into a club and you see something and go you know you're seeing something special you know and uh we're seeing brian adams 40 years ago play a club in albany or seeing dualipa play a 200 seat club here in la or i i was in new york i don't know must be 15 years ago because one of our young agents said go check out this band at downstairs at webster hall and there's this two-piece band playing a 200 seat room and i walked out and said this is the best live band i've seen in 10 years and it was 21 pilots that's what i was gonna guess Right.

56:35And it was just, oh, my God. And there's no better joy being an agent than having that moment. I just saw 21 Pilots. They were fantastic. That was the first time I'd ever seen them. Yeah, they're unbelievable life. I think for me, I think the turning point years ago, I represent and still represent Eric Clapton. and he did a blues tour in clubs and uh him playing buddy guys place in chicago and getting my parents to see that show uh meant a ton as you know that was a place where i'd gone my whole life as a kid so that was a huge moment in my agent career um what is an important piece of concert etiquette that you live by that you see people ignore i hate phones i mean i i really i really it's it's incredibly distracting to uh the people around you as well as the artist um i know that that's something we're going to be living with the rest of my life and you know have children who probably stand there with their phones up in the air um but i i think uh you know as we talk about experience and we talk about sharing the moment we talk about all these great things about live music put it down and enjoy the moment because you're not going to forget it and it's so important for a generation well younger than me to understand that you know remembering bruce springsteen the bottom line or cheap trick and you know in chicago that is the memory and it's not going to be a memory that you're sharing with your friends like this from an agent's perspective the one piece etiquette i'm a huge believer if you go to a show you stay till the end right because if you see the artist before you see the manager and you're not there at the end of the night what are you saying wasn't that good wasn't that important had somewhere else to be so if you're going to go cover a show be there when it's over finally a quality that all your best clients have in common for so many years I've said this brilliant artists great artists hear and see things differently than we do and and it's it's so hard to put your fingers on it i you know when you sit with stevie wonder and he's tapping his fingers or he hears a windshield wiper he's hearing it differently than we are you see it differently than we do and uh the the greatest of the great they're just they work in a different way their vision and and their hearing and and how they assimilate all of that into the great music we hear it's indescribable and when you get to be near it uh i'm still in awe you know 50 years later uh i'm just amazed by by how they do it i i don't it's like a magic trick as bruce would say and boy when they're good at it there's nothing like it rick um listen you know it it's it's so much it's it's talent, it's drive, it's understanding, uh, the zeitgeist.

59:50Um, it's, uh, that special thing that Rob describes that you can't put a finger on. Um, it's creating mystery. Um, there's, there's so much that goes into it that, uh, is what pulls everybody in. And as music evolved from, you know, me looking at album covers to clicking through Spotify's Spotify songs, it's just, you know, the the ability to grab someone's attention and make it personal. You know, and, you know, be it any genre of music, it makes it personal. It's such a gift that you can walk away feeling like you're connected and something moved you. I say to young agents all the time and to young artists, you can teach people to sing.

1:00:43You can teach them to dance. You can teach them to play an instrument, even write a song. You can't teach charisma. And that if factor is so special. And the best A &R men, the best managers, the best agents have an ability to see it. And when you see it, when you feel it, you're just pinned to the wall. And I could rattle off 50 names. I won't. but when you do you go I'm seeing something unique and and you can't teach that to people they either have it or they don't it's very true it's very true and so finally as I ask all of my guests on this show to do we are going to make a playlist where I'm going to have you guys pick three songs based on some prompts so the first prompt is what is a song that you can no longer gatekeep and this is a really impossible question for me so i'm just going to go totally vague i've been in a total warren zevon you know moment and then uh watching him be inducted in the hall of fame obviously uh post his uh his passing the performance of excitable boy um that to me is you know just a moment I'm going through right now um the song killers who are yeah they did great crush that um I'm a Linda Ronstadt fanatic and uh I think her version of I will always love you which came out years before Whitney's is the greatest version of that song and so um not Dolly's version not Whitney's not everyone else who's tried to sing it The Linda Ronstadt version of I Will Always Love You is remarkable.

1:02:25Great pick. What is a favorite throwback? Oh, God. You know, it's impossible. I'm a Bruce Springsteen fanatic. I'm a Stevie Wonder fanatic. I'm a John Mellencamp fanatic. So, I mean, all of those songs. You know, I love songs that look back. I love Glory Days by Bruce Springsteen. Listen, I'm just going to go, since we talked about it, I want it that way by the Backstreet Boys. There we go. Everyone gets a feeling when they hear that. Max Martin's finest, you know. And finally, what is a guilty pleasure for you guys? I love 60s pop music. I am a throwback to the 60s. So I drive my daughter crazy listening to the 60s channel on Sirius because I just love the innocence of everything that came out and watching it evolve.

1:03:11So I'm still a Beatles fanatic, but I love all those pop bands, Dave Clark Five, everything from the 60s. I've dated myself tremendously right now, but there was just an innocence to music that I miss. I am a massive hard rock and metal fan. From Iron Maiden to UFO to Rush to every artist that came out of that genre. I'm on a text chain with about 12 different people in the business who represent a variety of artists and we are that's all we talk about wow i love that and that's how you build a great agency because you have agents who all love different genres of music but can help each other appreciate it and uh um i think that's what we've done at ca we've got this incredible collection of people who um like all sorts of different things and if you had three other people here they'd all have different yeah playlists with as much passion so yeah that's what i love about billboard too we have all these people who specialize in different genres and i'm always learning something new and it's it's nice to be around people who have totally different tastes than you sometimes so it's it's fun as an agent um because we're not you know so categorized and who we represent that you can represent you know acdc and bruce springsteen or you can represent Iron Maiden and Santana and you know there's it's it actually makes it really interesting because you can kind of take on everything since we're on the heels of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame when I I have the privilege to be on the nominating committee and the joy of being in that room every year when we sit down to nominate is you have 30 plus music individuals executives artists who are so passionate about what they love because they're nominating somebody and they're so inspired that I always leave going to listen to 20 albums I've never listened to because someone has pitched them to be in the Hall of Fame with such passion and fervor that I want to explore and even as long as I've done it I still spend Sunday afternoons listening to music things I haven't heard or new music coming out because you never stop enjoying the process of it.

1:05:37So, yeah. Yeah, well, this playlist will be updated on Spotify with your picks or at least some picks from the artists that you mentioned. But Rick Roskin, Rob Light, thank you so much for coming to On The Record and spending some time with me. Thank you so much. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it.

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1:07:04Another special thank you to Rob Light and Rick Roskin for coming on the show and sharing their insights with us. It's great to get a pulse on how the live music scene is changing from some of the best in the business. And now, up next, we're going to be diving into our Charts Roundup, where we'll highlight this week's biggest movers and shakers. Here's the Billboard Hot 100 Top 10 for the week of November 15th. Number 10 is a Halloween reentry, Thriller by Michael Jackson. Number nine is I Got Better by Morgan Wallen. Eight is Mutt by Leon Thomas.

1:07:41Seventh this week is Folded by Kehlani. Daisies by Justin Bieber comes in at number six. Man I Need by Olivia Dean comes at number five. Number four this week is Opalite by Taylor Swift. Number three is Ordinary by Alex Warren.

1:08:09Number two is Golden by Huntrix. And for its fifth week at the top of the Hot 100 chart, this week's number one is The Fate of Ophelia by Taylor Swift. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of On the Record. and another special thank you to our guests Rob Light and Rick Roskin for coming by. If you like today's show, please consider hitting us with a rating, a follow, a thumbs up, all those good things. They really help our show grow and reach new people. Again, I'm your host Kristen Robinson and tune in next week for another peek behind the curtain of the music business. I'll see you then.

1:08:58ASK ENOUGH, comment? Nooms 4. minimal