How Country Music Took Over Pop Culture w/ Seth England

31:30Yeah. And at the time he had just had he just done The Voice? Yes. I might be foggy on the exact timeline from The Voice to him meeting me how many months it was. OK. But what I do remember is he had had a break. I didn't know him yet. But when he was filming The Voice, I believe how it goes. He had a break in Los Angeles, goes home to Knoxville. the show had told all the contestants we we recommend you to go home and engage with vocal coaches just to stay warm stay fresh stay sharp don't come back here without running reps so he did do that he went home and um he started working with a vocal coach hopefully i have all these details correct yeah the vocal coach was in a rock band that had just lost their record deal on roadrunner records i think it was a band that was called atom smash i have to go look all this up yeah they were still kind of loosely jamming together and this one band member was doing vocal lessons and he and he locked up with morgan he realized how good a singer morgan was and then he had morgan come sit in with the band in knoxville and sing with them just to kind of like run reps the band was not touring anymore and actually guys the band guys are gonna kill me for this i'm thinking about how many guys that are still in his band today that were in that band Taco, Dom I don't think Tyler was but anyway my point being is the first band Morgan came to Nashville with were these guys and so it was really in his own way a very cool story of how he linked up with these folks and so yeah that vocal coach called the managers, the managers worked with him they called Kevin and then he wound up on our doorstep and yeah I'll just never forget that first meeting he was singing a few songs he had written songs were just okay but you expect that in those first meetings.

33:07You don't expect them to just have everything figured out. But I'll never forget, we ask a lot of artists in those moments, like, hey, was there a song on radio the last four or five years to you that had that song been given to you? This is me. Play me one. And, of course, Morgan, we knew it kind of coming in, but he's at Eric Church, especially then, and now they're real friends in life and real buddies. Eric's a mentor to him, but he's an Eric Church fanatic. And so he's like, without skipping a beat, he's like, yeah, let me play you this song. and his guitar player starts playing Talladega.

33:38Morgan starts singing it and realizes that it was like a key or two. I think it was like two steps too high. So you're supposed to kind of sing. Home plate should kind of be your talking voice. But he was up here at the start of the song, which means it was gonna get out of range quick. And he almost does the thing where he stops him and says, stop, stop, stop. Let's get in the right key. And he started two and he's like, you know what? Screw it, run it, I'll do it. And he sang the whole song, I think, two keys higher than he was natural and that showed us more than I like him doing the wrong key showed me more Joey and I just kept looking at each other like well we can't let this guy get out of the building well he's gonna be he's got this this special superpower of a talent and he knew who he was he was so authentic and so anyway um that was a also a very serendipitous first meeting yeah and he was the second artist signed to our full service now fully expanded record label.

34:31Yeah. And off, off we went. Yeah. And for a while you managed him and were the label, right? Correct. I didn't manage him at first. Matter of fact, one thing I want to clarify, I never managed any acts that I didn't develop. Our whole goal was to, was to develop acts. I jokingly tell people, um, my goal was to be Joe Galani, who was one of the biggest record label presidents of our time in Nashville. And then somehow I got in my Clarence Spalding bag, if you will, for 15 years. I didn't mean to. It was only, I blame Florida Georgia Line. But I also thank them for that because I feel like I had a wealth of experience by doing so.

35:07But what was funny is I also knew that wasn't the life that I necessarily wanted. And I knew one day when I met. Are you referring to management? Yes. Management specifically. Got it. Even though, like I said, I appreciate every skill that I developed then. And I actually think today, now that I'm just doing label and pub, I would like to think I really get along with my artists and managers well. And if that's true, hopefully that's true to them. They understand this because I was in their seat so much. As a manager, the label can't always empathize with what you're going through or what's important to you and why it's important to you and those things.

35:41So I'd like to think that I can get on their level. I still think I'm managing every artist. I'm more their consultant. I'll get called by the manager. Can you talk to him about this or that? Yeah. And so I knew that when I had kids one day and our first was, oldest son was born in 2022. And I was talking about it openly in front of my clients. It wasn't like it was a secret. I was like, you know, when the T-ball years come, I'm probably gonna step out just because like, you know. You mean you don't want to get that management call at 2 a.m. I've just broke up with my girlfriend. What do I do?

36:12Or I lost my passport. Or need bailed out of jail. You know, either one, any of, any of, all those, you run the gamut. Doesn't matter what happens. You're gonna get the call, you know. And more so, I kind of said it jokingly, but I was like, if any of my artists would feel let down that I was coaching t-ball on a Saturday instead of side stage at Wembley Stadium then I better you know um okay so that's why you and Morgan decided to part ways on the management side well it was even bigger than that for him for sure I mean his career was so massive and actually he and uh his now manager Austin Austin was his agent okay yeah and so so to be honest with you if he and I weren't going to work together that's the very best situation because we're all still close friends you know what I mean we speak as friends about each other's lives, not just work.

36:52And in my view, that makes us better coworkers. Yeah. Right? And also with Morgan, he and I, the number one thing that I think, you know, it needs preserved was our creative collaboration. We needed to be able to make music together. And so at the same time, the story I was telling, I was looking at my two sons like, well, this is what I said when I said I was going to lay it down anyway. So I think it was honestly God's timing. Like it was the way it was supposed to be. And candidly, I think I have a better relationship with all my acts today than not necessarily have to be the one to go on the bus and go, okay, let's go through the manager's checklist.

37:23Because, you know, no matter how good your relationship is, you kind of resent the responsibility after a while. It's a huge responsibility. Yeah, I get to go up and be the song guy and marketing guy and album rollout strategist and what's going on in your life, how you doing, you know, and just have a nice balance with it. So, you know, long road getting here, but I'm so thankful where we're at right now. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like I'm starting to see so many hybrid companies where I see it a lot where it starts as a management company and then the management company moves into label and pub.

37:50I do think that's because for managers, it's a very vulnerable position to be a manager. With a label or a publisher, you do get some sort of IP ownership or license for a while. Whereas with management, you might get 20 % while you're still with them, which can be lucrative. But if you guys part ways, I mean, there's not much left over at the end. And so I feel like I've seen a lot of managers kind of move into the label pub game. But I think the criticism that I see of that sometimes is that you don't want to double dip or you don't want a manager who is just going to say yes to everything the label does.

38:28Sometimes the manager needs to step in and check the label. Did you ever have any fears of having those multiple roles at once end up contradicting each other or causing conflict? Yes, but not necessarily for the reason and the way you asked the question. Okay. But just because you asked the one thing, like on the money side of it, for example, just since it's a music business podcast, one thing I want to say that's so important. Yeah. And I would hear that. Oh, you can't have this. You can't have these people do both roles. Well, why? Well, you double dip. I'm like, well, that's taken care of.

38:56We don't double dip. We don't. I don't take money from them twice. Yeah. I'm their partner. I'm their partner. Matter of fact, it was always my goal if I was multiple roles with someone that when you looked at a waterfall that they made, just bluntly speaking, more money with me than if they were in each individual role. not to incentivize that, but to clear that part out. This is not why we're doing this. To what I said earlier, it was never my goal. I only started managing Morgan when he had fallen out with some managers that weren't the right fit for him. But we were already down the road being his investor, and he saw us having a booming management company, and his natural inclination was to come and say, can you help me out?

39:33I'm in a less than ideal situation, and a lot of people may not realize how folks like ourselves would work for someone for less than the role even just because we're his partner. So I think there's two sides of that. When you are really someone's partner, there's things that you will do for someone than if you were just one piece to their wheel. That was at least my perspective. And so I would like to think that most of my acts definitely look back and saw the benefits of that as opposed to negatives. That being said, I was never territorial. If you want to go, let's co-manage, get someone to help us.

40:07And I had co-managers in terms of day-to-day managers, then who now have their own companies you know tracker has gone on has his own management company i'm so proud to watch him go hardy went with him and it turned into a beautiful thing for a lot of people instead of something just ended if you will you know you're seeing you're seeing that happen but no i don't um at the same time people sometimes give that warning because you've seen reasons for people to give that warning yeah right it's not always yeah a bad person in that position could exploit it there are also a lot of people who who don't exploit it it's just it's just one I will say though, I mean, we're here to be honest.

40:42I feel like when I was primarily managing only in terms of like being a big source of revenue, there were moments where, you know, look, we're there to work for the artist, their job, it's their career, it's their business. But what I will say is it's an emotional sport. It is. So, and things go wrong at times. It's not necessarily anybody's fault, but someone's to answer for it, you know, And it can be a vulnerable feeling when you're like, oh, look, if I don't make this artist happy tonight or this quarter or this year, this rollout, that I could lose my job. And there's nothing that can be done about it.

41:19There's no security in it. There's no. So yet, you'll see a lot of industry podcasts talking about the relationship of artists and managers. And you'll hear stories of people feeling like the manager got left high and dry. Thankfully, I never went through that. I didn't have a horror story to tell. but there were certain moments where you know artists have multiple teammates who are independent whether it be the business manager the agent publicist and they all have their own views and they speak independently to the artist you know so yeah so let's say for example you don't find some of those people to to be overly trusting yeah absolutely and a good teammate then you feel vulnerable and you're like you know what I so it wasn't about getting more rights for us we were the second kind I think you said where we were production company and publishing and I fell into management versus I was a manager that fell into those things so mine was unique but I am seeing a lot of what you're talking about yeah because the managers are developing putting putting their own dollars into it and I know five of them as we're sitting here I'm thinking about right now who are good managers to what I was talking about no double dipping advantageous business for the artist you know and so when you can accomplish all those things and you come out to your record deal with the majors that you have better terms better rates to the artist better budgets all all of it then it was a win and I don't I don't really see how you could look at that and and uh try to pick it apart the outcome worked yeah you know and uh hopefully when it worked the person you partnered with was a big factor in that and helping make that work so yeah yeah but like you said it's not one size fits all.

42:52There's a reason for all sorts of stories. And we just try to be good people, treat people right. And you're talking about these kids who like Craig Wiseman replaced so many transmissions in people's trucks that was never recoupable. You know what I mean? When I got time to talk about money, they never looked at us for the most part and thought we were ever trying to take anything that we didn't partner in on and earn. And so, yeah. This episode is brought to you by the RAA or the Recording Industry Association of America. The RAAA represents hundreds of member companies, whether that's the major music groups behind today's biggest artists or independent and artist-run labels.

43:26And they advocate for the policies, protections, and rights that keep the American music industry strong. That means fighting for intellectual property rights, monitoring state and federal legislation like the No Fakes Act, and making the case for a music ecosystem where artists, labels, and creative partnerships can actually thrive. Beyond their advocacy for the music business, the RIAA is also known as the organization behind the gold, platinum and diamond certifications that mark some of the most significant milestones in an artist's career. If you'd like to learn more about this organization and their role in your favorite music, head to RIAA.com.

44:03So I wanted to shift to talk about radio. I feel like radio is a very important topic within country music. That is still a place where country music thrives. I think in pop music, you see, obviously, there are really good royalty rates for pop artists if they do break into radio. But it's kind of like the last thing at the end of, you know, going viral on TikTok, doing well on streaming, then radio might come at the end. I'm wondering, has country radio evolved in recent years? Has it become kind of like pop where it's the end destination or is it still breaking songs? Great question. I definitely think without a doubt country radio has has moved a bit more with the times with the times meaning let's be a megaphone of of the records that are breaking.

44:53That being said I will say in the last year or so I've given a lot more thought because you're even starting to see shifts happen on on-demand streaming where although there's huge playlists. Why would you not want to have your music on New Music Friday and Today's Top Hits, Hot Country, Alt Nation, all these. But truthfully, I think we'll all find out in the future what exactly is shifting. But I think you're starting to see a bit of a shifting culture even around the streaming and playlists where, you know, we have this rock band going right now, Dexter and the Moon Rocks. It's huge. The song is out of here.

45:25It's going crazy right now. Crazy. Yeah. They got on some massive – I'd have to fact check this because I don't have the full reflection on Today's Top Hits. but it still applies in that they had Mero and Rock and all these other big lists that were their goals, and they were like, man, I wish I could get a song on this. And they did, and still yet, the editorial is just 5 % of their streaming, the rest of its active audience. That used to be able to be something that could break songs. I remember seeing it like five years ago. Not the case anymore. It's cool. It's great. By the way, I just want to clarify, I think in theory it can, but it's happening so far fewer, and it would only happen to the songs that are going to convert.

46:00Interesting. Meaning to get in a playlist does not mean you're going to convert. Matter of fact, it might only lead you to the faster result to show you don't convert. That's what's different about previously the gatekeepers who we talk to every day and still collaborate with. This is not an attack on them. I'm just talking about the change in the times. Previously, the gatekeepers chose what was popular in our genre. Yeah. In every genre. Totally. Now the fans tell the gatekeepers what to playlist. so I think there's also this radio like nature happening with streaming and I'm not saying it's reverse but being that country music has still been local localized meaning if we want to go to radio we typically need to send our artists on a bit of a radio tour a lot of southwest plains you know what I mean it's different than every other genre there's a lot of hand-to-hand combat that goes into it there's actually a plausible argument now that I think over time if radio stays local, you could build an audience in that local market, even if you're not chasing the chart, and you could then see the benefit over to streaming.

46:59So I don't know if that's a bit of a premonition or a foreshadow. Yeah, I don't know if it's ever going to 180 back. Yeah. Right? Because previously we didn't have streaming. It was just radio. Country music, it was one lane up, one lane down. Everybody wins. Everybody comes down. Yeah. I don't like that either. I don't think that's real life. I would personally rather have an environment where Ella Langley stays at number one for 10 weeks if she's if she's the top song for 10 weeks and it's not to be rude to nine other songs but there's no reason to take that song out of there and that's what you see in pop radio and how they see and rock for whatever reason we we've had a few moments where we'll let it stay in there but if we did it would it would give you the answer to your question because then it would kind of be like you would just use other chart positions to grow active audience yeah Hopefully.

47:43And then you would turn that active audience into probably upgrades and streaming. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. That didn't answer your question. I actually think it might be going to reverse relationship than what we've thought of the last 10 years. But I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, so when I was preparing for this interview, I talked to our country music editor, Melinda Newman, who was singing Y 'all's praises and was talking about how interesting she found Big Loud to be. because she was saying that she feels like Big Loud was very early to see that streaming was coming, even though country fans tend to adopt new formats a little bit slower than some other genres.

48:20Yes. So can you tell me about that early streaming strategy and why you guys decided? It almost feels like you guys were thinking like a coastal label. Definitely. And leaning into that. So tell me more about that. Well, if that's true, you know, especially my earliest years in music business, I was on planes as much as I could to make relationships in New York and L.A., specifically other genres, in particular hip hop once, especially when on demand streaming started, because you saw the initial boom just happen with hip hop where it was it was the rave. It was dominating every chart position.

48:51And subjectively speaking, I don't know exactly why that is. my best guess is on-demand streaming really saturated early in metropolitan markets. Right? Not to state like the most obvious blunt thing, but like the density of high-speed Wi-Fi in metropolitan cities versus, you know, my parents where they live in Illinois. They still don't have high-speed internet. Yeah. So some of country music's rural fans may not, like they're sitting there thinking about their Verizon bill if they want to stream. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. I literally wonder to myself sometimes how much that factored the delay of country music.

49:24Like, think about it. That's fascinating because I was going to say that I thought that they adopted things slower because it tends to be more of an older audience maybe than your average. True. True. I think that's also true. I think that's probably more true than what I'm saying, but I think there's. But I think that's a factor. I think you're onto something with that. I definitely think that. Also, yeah, on-demand streaming had an initial, you know, arm's length feeling from some folks in Nashville. And I didn't agree. I knew there were problems that needed addressed, fair songwriter pay, rates, even label, all that.

49:55I think it all needed addressed, but yet my view was we needed to figure out while it was moving. Let's not Napster this era, too. Yeah. Meaning let's not lean out and then let it move past us. Let's lean in. And so that was happening in the Florida Georgia Line era. And so therefore I'd take all my Morgan and Chris Lane, whoever I had, their songs with me to make sure they got early access. hopefully to playlists and whatnot. But I'll definitely, going back to FGL, I'll never forget they had that song Holy. Big music video they shot in Australia. It was just a beautiful, beautiful video. We knew we had something special.

50:33I thought we had a crossover record. And at that time, every label was kind of up in arms with Spotify and Apple Music and trying to figure out what this environment was going to be like. Totally. I personally felt like I was reading, I was reading so many music business articles that I was reading stories out of Sweden, of course Sweden, but how in just a few years, it had accounted for 96 % of the revenue from the music, or something to this degree. I fact checked on there, but it was the test to say, you know what? The rest of the world could adopt this, and I don't know if we'll be as saturated as Sweden is, but wow, the music business could bounce back in a major way.

51:13So I hear everything everyone's saying, but are we looking away from the fact from a macro level? this is going to be an amazing thing and is going to saturate the genre. Back to your question. So the label FGL is with was not so certain at that moment that we wanted to go give any priority. And I flew to New York and I met with Mike Begain and Doug Ford in the Godfathers of the playlist era, if you will. Totally. We played them the video of Holy. They flipped out and I'll never forget. Like, I didn't even know how significant it was. And they said, would you like to be the first country artist to be them?

51:45of course fgl to be the first country artist to be the cover of new music friday i was like i don't think i'm supposed to say yes to this but yes absolutely let's do it and i'll tell you that was the that was probably in my view the single biggest thing that happened to that song and that band at that time and it was off to the races and then big loud had a really strong relationship with spotify early because of moments like that and that only benefited artists like morgan and whoever else we were working with yeah they were just there at the forefront and really really saturated on those on those playlists yeah that's interesting to think about florida georgia line as kind of one of those first breakthroughs for country because i mean when i think people think about the streaming era they also think about morgan as such a dominant force in streaming more so than a lot of other big country acts even you know five ten years later than the florida georgia line moment that you're talking about um but i want to go back to something that you said i thought it was so interesting pointing out that there's a lot of rural fans and small town fans of country music and how maybe they don't have access to the high speed internet.

52:45But another challenge that I think that presents is that you have such a diffuse audience. And so I imagine touring for country music, you have to think about it a little bit differently because you have fans who are in rural Alabama that are dying to see Morgan Wallen or Hardy or whoever. So how do you approach touring differently in country music knowing that there are so many rural fans? Great question. well I don't know if you're aware but in country music there's roughly speaking whatever it is 100 to 100 150 to 160 stations you know every month or quarter however they do that some get removed from the panel some add to the panel you know what makes up like the billboard chart right same for media base well I don't know the amount but outside of that 150 those are all now called secondary like uh tertiary or secondary markets and in country music we have a secondary radio chart.

53:41Interesting. On the Big Loud label staff, we have a guy named Lisa Smoot, who I've worked with for years. Her dad, Jerry Duncan, had Jerry Duncan promotions, and they would be a third-party source. I hired him for Florida Georgia Line and others, and they would go out and work Carbondale, Illinois. They'd go work, I can't remember if like Huntsville, Alabama, as a secondary or a reporter. I'm going to say one that I don't mean to offend, but the point is, is let's take Carbondale, Illinois for a second. Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, and the surrounding city, they listen to that radio station in those surrounding areas at a larger market share than 97.9 in Nashville.

54:19Right? So the influence was so, so big. Then we would see, is there a bar or a venue in that town that has shows regularly and can sell hard tickets? Because if there is, then let's really focus on that station to get the FGL songs on or Morgan songs on, and then we're going to go play a show at this campus bar. But you've got to also remember, most of the secondary towns may not have that connection. They've got a station, but they may not have a perennial venue or they may not have a campus that can bring Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights and throw an event. So we were really looking for some select markets where we could do that.

54:55In the FGL case, I'll never forget, there's a guy named Dusty out of St. Louis, music director, PD now, at a reporting station. and he's significant in their life because when we were still independent, Cruz was going crazy and this is back when a lot of the stations did the Friday at 5, or excuse me, every day at 5 p.m., you know, this song versus that song challenge and then you'd have like a champion if they'd win all five days, that was a massive thing for this station or whatever and he put FGL Cruz on it because we, it wasn't by design but in the exterior of St. Louis, there's actually a high volume of secondary markets in Illinois and Missouri.

55:33Mexico City, Missouri, I think's one. Springfield, Missouri, or that might be a main one, but Sykeston. We had all the stations around St. Louis. Every single one of them, because Lisa Smoot and Jerry were working it like crazy, and they started getting calls from folks driving through St. Louis, play that song Cruise by Florida Georgia Line. Dusty'd go look into his record label files, and like, I don't know this band. Who is this? And it truly happened the old-fashioned way, where that happened, and Dusty's like, all right, I've had enough on Monday. I'm going to put them up against whoever it was.

56:03I'll never forget that they beat Lee Bryce, I Drive Your Truck. And there was a Taylor Swift song on there. By the end of the week, he called his regional rep, Joe Jamie Hare, who's now at BMG, who was working for Scott Dent and said, I'm telling you, you've got to check this band. They just won five days in a row. And Scott had previously passed on the band. He wasn't available at that moment and had the capacity. And then that's the kind of call you get that reverses that decision. He called and said, OK, I'm getting calls from stations. We might want to talk again. you know but um i i credit much of that to secondary radio we had this big city surrounded and it permeated into the into the metropolitan area you know and worked well for them so when you're touring you can still go to those metropolitan areas and by targeting the outside markets yeah because inst louis many of those towns were drivable to the city and and that's what fgl did after dusty started playing this oh before but then even after we'd go play the venue there, the pageant, the venue owners have some small ones.

56:58It's the Blue Room or the Blue Something just down the road. Yeah, they play that a few times and pack it out. They build the super fan really well and figure out how they're going to mobilize them and get more people there and all that stuff. I think pop music is interesting because every few years there's another genre that it's kind of taking inspiration from. I think 2016-ish you started seeing rap being the primary influence, then maybe an all-R &B and there was even a moment during the pandemic where pop punk was cool. Right now it feels like country is the one. But pop fans are kind of fickle.

57:33They move on. So how do you expect Nashville to be changed after inevitably pop moves on to some other genre and starts taking inspiration from that? It's a great question. And I think it will happen. Like music is cyclical, as you mentioned. Pop is popular. Pop is popular music, you know. to go down pop radio there's certainly some artists Sabrina, Ariana, Olivia Rodrigo although even with Olivia's music that's kind of alt-y rock to me at times unless I'm wrong I believe she lists it in pop music but to what you're saying is pop radio primarily is built of let's say X number of those, not all of those, not all pop stars, a handful of mainstays that that's their genre, but then they pull crossover records from alt-rock, rhythmic radio, country radio, hot AC, AAA, it can come from any other sort of subculture.

58:29I think that will never change. It historically was that way to your point. You pointed out times where hip-hop seemed to be so crossover-ish in 2010s and late 20s. Country's then having its heyday. It could change. You could have maybe less country songs up ahead, but I will always think you'll have the top two or three songs from our genre always like Ella's Choose in Texas does not sound like pop radio but it by God is popular majorly and actually kind of hits like a pop record underneath the surface in terms of the hit factor of it great song great song fantastic song so I think that's going to happen in the future uh predominantly country although it will go through cycles like anybody else one thing I'll mention is I'd read an article about the listening habits.

59:16Something we don't focus on enough are fans listening habits. We sometimes think our job is to convert fans to be casual to passionate. That's not, that's less possible, right? Rather than finding a super fan of another genre and just teaching them about country music. Interesting. It's true. Changing someone listening habit is so hard. Like there is no exact percentage, but 10 % of music fans are the actual ones who care. They go find it. They go seek. The other 90 % predominantly let it come to them. But what's neat about country music as compared to other genres is it has the highest percentage of people who go seek and they want to invest in the artist.

1:00:00The lean forward listen, and that means I searched an artist's name or I searched a song. Not picking on any other genre, but like Latin, for example, I think in the same study I read has the highest percentage of lean back listeners. Yeah, I can see that. Playlist oriented, let the music come to them. Perhaps I turn it on in a certain mood of time, a vibe. So country music, I will say, hopefully has some version of staying power in that by nature, the fan really, really cares about the subject and the human. The song leads them to want to know more about the human. Whereas in other genres, sometimes it just stops at the song.

1:00:32Yeah, I mean, I think one thing you can always give to a country fan is that they have loyalty over time. How many country stars do you see that like 20 years down the line, they're still making hit records. You don't see that in pop. People move on. It's really hard to be a pop star. I mean, Taylor Swift is a great example of someone who's managed to have staying power for an extremely long period of time, actually did start in country, but now would be considered a pop star. But most people don't get anywhere close to that in pop music. I don't think country's done. I mean, I certainly we could have cyclical years where things change, but I always think it's going to be one of the top genres forever.

1:01:03And I think there's a certain someone out there in our genre whose music is not on all platforms. And I believe there's actually a massive supercharged moment when he if and when he decides to do that, it's going to change our genre again for three or four years because of the impact of his music. you know in a way I wish he had had his music on longer because or for for the years we've been talking about here but since we're here it's interesting because he could make a tremendous decision and jolt the genre again by coming back to platform you know and therefore any artists who are also inspired by him you know being that they work off algorithms so much now right like if if the person whom you sound like or inspired by, or you got a hat and a buckle and you know, you don't have to have the, you know, the mic coming down, but if you got all the other elements, their music will lead people to recommendations of other, other artists.

1:02:02And so it may not be that one person's responsibility, but I do think it's their opportunity. And I think it's in the next few years, I really hope to see, uh, Garth, uh, come back online and re-permeate his music everywhere, because I think the genre will take a massive lift. So moments like that that we know are up ahead, there's a face card yet to play, if you will. If you're thinking about it genre-wise, I think the genre stays strong for the next decade, minimum. Yeah, yeah. I see it, too. Okay, well, I have been talking to you, unfortunately, for too long, so we have to move on to our final game, and then we'll wrap this up.

1:02:33Okay. Okay, so at the end of every episode of On the Record, I play a game called What Would You Cue? And this is just to kind of figure out what your music tastes like, some of the songs that have inspired you. So just pick one song per prompt. I have four prompts here. So the first one is, what would you cue to take you back to your childhood? If I had to choose one for today's answer only, I'm going to go with Smoke on the Water. When I was in middle school, I finally, well, before that, you know, I was in a very religious, faith-based household. I would only get to listen to music that like, you know, Christian music made these posters that said like, if you like Run DMC, you should listen to like DC Talk.

1:03:10And if you, you know what I'm saying? And like, if you like Christina Aguilera, try Joy Williams or whatever it is. And so I just listened to the right side. So in middle school, I finally, I got to go to my first secular concert, which is interesting. And then I picked up the guitar and started playing. But in my little podunk town, there wasn't necessarily access to like certain music teachers. Totally. There was a man who went to my church, but he's a State Farm insurance salesman named Rick Duzan. I think State Farm. Sorry, Rick, if I messed that up. and my dad hired him to teach me guitar and he got to use the basement of this of this insurance office and I don't know if Rick enjoyed teaching or if he just enjoyed playing and chain-smoking cigarettes down there and he would just he had stacks of CDs and he was a big classic rock fan as was my dad so my dad kind of enjoyed it he'd come listen to his practice and I'd sit there in his hazy smoky basement and we would just play southern rock riffs I don't think we ever touched music theory once he just told me how to hold the riffs and And so, yeah, I just hear Foghat.

1:04:09That Foghat covered that song, but Smoke on the Water, you know, and that whole Foghat album probably reminds me of that one moment where it impacted my life. That sounds like a great vibe. He sounds like fun. I still smell like smoke, I think. Yeah. Okay, so what would you cue to represent your favorite era of music? Okay, wait, the song hasn't hit me yet, but Motown. Oh, yes, I hear you're a big fan of Motown. There's a story. There's so many stories in Motown, but the one really quickly is there used to be this law, I don't know if it's still the same way, where the musicians' union reps would swing by studios unannounced.

1:04:44There was a law that something that said like you have to have a vocalist on the mic if the band is tracking. To some reason that protected the band members that they weren't in there aimlessly playing if they weren't singing because that means they were not recording. Interesting. Historically they didn't always have the chance to like multitrack each part as they went. So if the band is playing someone should be singing. and there was a young secretary that was sitting there at the front desk and her job was to watch out the front door and if the union reps came she had to sprint back there and tell him and just start singing yeah well that was the that was worst case scenario yeah start singing and um so anyway one day this happens and she runs back there and starts singing that that's what happened she jumped on the mic and started singing and i'd been hearing the song all day they were tracking and working on and uh her name was martha and and the the guys in the studio and the producer was like who the hell is singing right now that's so amazing oh it's just me boss it's martha you know the guys are here whatever and little by little they're like no that's your record and that's how martha was it martha and the vandellas was formed series yes so wow so i'm getting chills talking about it because i don't have a secretary that i've signed a record deal yet but maybe it'll Well, we do have people in the building that got publishing deals later and they were like an engineer and they showed songwriting skills.

1:06:00So, yeah. So I just I don't know. I'm sure there's many other stories that inspire me. But but yeah, that if I had to pick one, it would be that because I'm a nerd on the stories behind the scenes. Yeah. Yeah. What would you cue to remember the best concert you've ever been to? I think your first is always your best in terms of I was talking about like getting being able to go to a secular concert, you know, and Leonard Skinner and ZZ Top. was a co-headline that came through Terre Haute, Indiana. And I rode over there with my sophomore in high school cousin who was just barely 16. My parents let me go to the show, for better or worse.

1:06:34We got there early, never been to one, and the young country artist opened for them. It was a 6 '5 guy with a mullet, and it was Blake Shelton. No way. Yeah, so Blake Shelton was the opener. I think ZZ Top went second that night, then Skinnered. I don't know now if I was to say my very, very best show I've ever been to that impacted me forever. That's hard to pinpoint one. ACDC in Indianapolis when I was a little, a year or two after that. Yeah. It was a massive impact, but certainly that first show in Terre Haute, Indiana at Holman Center set the stage for all of it. That's a good pick. And then finally, what would you cue to represent a turning point for Big Loud?

1:07:07Oof, hard to pick one as well. I would pick Whiskey Glasses, Morgan Wallen, and not because it was so big in the end. Not just because it was, oh, here's Morgan's really big bonafide first hit. One of the reasons I would say that, I mean, it is a signature song. Very creative, creatively written. And we knew, well, we were basically testing the data and the data sets we were getting from Spotify when it first came in. If you've seen the movie Moneyball, it's much like that where you can kind of look at all different attributes. And when you look at the data of a song being streamed versus purchased, it tells you so much more.

1:07:38So much more. Right. You don't know anything after the point of sale. You don't know anything other than what city, how many in that city. And that still helped us when we had, that's all the info we had. But I'll never forget that song taught us so much about what we were looking for in the data sheets. And he had up down, I had the way I talk and then up down. And we heard the fans kept saying, I like whiskey glasses. And like, we know we're going to get there. We're going to get there. We're going to get, you know, we got to get him up the chart and his name out there before we can get to the one that we think is going to do it.

1:08:04But we still didn't know if the data sheets were going to like, is this going to actually show like show itself when we promote it and playlists and radio. And sure enough, it was such a full circle lesson because we were sitting there staring at that data for like a year. We knew something was up and not many other people were talking about data like that. So we really just tested the theory and also just then non-data wise and music business wise, it's just a great song. It's such a landmark moment for him. And that would just set the stage. That video, if you go back and watch it, he and Hardy are in it together.

1:08:34And it was just, you know, it was a very creative video. But it was also the videos made of his buddies and things that he had close to him, you know, things he had access to. I love that. Yeah. That's great. Well, Seth England, thank you for coming to On The Record. Thank you for having me. A lot of fun. All right. Thank you so much to Seth England for joining me today to talk about the changes in the Nashville music industry and the rise of Big Loud. And thank you for listening to this week's episode of On the Record. If you like today's show, give us a follow on Instagram or on our brand new TikTok page at Billboard On the Record, where you can find new clips of the show every single week.

1:09:07We'd also appreciate it if you rated our show on your favorite podcast platform. All of these things help On the Record grow bigger and better than ever. Again, I'm your host, Kristen Robinson, and tune in next week for another peek behind the curtain of the music business. I'll see you then.