How The Super Bowl Halftime Show Comes to Life w/ Bozoma Saint John

13:44Bozoma Saint John:think I realized that I don't think I put those pieces together let me tell you man because the

13:48Kristin Robinson:pushback was you know Janet had had her wardrobe malfunction which we all know was not just her fault so let's just say that justice for Janet justice for Janet we're completely we stand on it Yeah. But, you know, in the rooms, you have to be a professional. And when the pushback is like, oh, we've already had the wardrobe malfunction. It's just like, well, not all black women are going to be out here with their nipples out. Like, what are you talking about? You know what I mean? There was real concern that also that she wouldn't connect to the football audience, which, of course, today you look back and you're just like, are you kidding me?

14:21Kristin Robinson:But that was a real conversation and a real concern. The other thing that has been forgotten in history is that she actually sang at Barack Obama's inauguration right before the Super Bowl. Oh, wow. OK, yeah. Just within a few weeks. Yes. And it was outdoor. And she used a backing track, you know, because when you sing outdoor in that kind of weather, it's like you've got to have something. And the critics said that she used a backing track because she can't sing. I mean, and so there was all this controversy. First, we had the pushback from, you know, just the NFL saying that like she's not going to connect to audiences.

15:01Kristin Robinson:Then we got the controversy with the inauguration and people saying she can't sing. So by the time it was Super Bowl week and we arrive at the press event, everybody is on it. I for sure think I'm going to lose my job. You know what I mean? Yeah,

15:15Bozoma Saint John:because you're like, I stuck my neck out for this.

15:17Kristin Robinson:I stuck my neck out, you know? And she came out And before she took a single question, she sang the national anthem acapella. And I'm telling you, I don't know that besides Whitney Houston, I don't think there's been a more beautiful rendition that I've ever heard in my life. Wow. It was so powerful. But that was all before the theatrics of the Super Bowl halftime show for which she won an Emmy.

15:44Bozoma Saint John:Man, I love that you pointed out all the criticisms that were kind of against her, both at the start of her career as a solo artist and then leading up to the Super Bowl. Because I think it's easy to forget because she is such a phenomenon and such a cultural force and will always be at this point. Yes. It was not always guaranteed.

16:02Kristin Robinson:It was never guaranteed. And also, I think it's a huge lesson. It was certainly a huge lesson for me personally and in my career. But I think all of us can draw inspiration from that. You know, you're going to have critics, even though you prove the fact that you are an excellent performer or that you are a phenomenal talent or that you are breaking down. People are still going to criticize you and you've got to prove yourself again and again and again and again. And guess what? Just keep doing it. Keep shutting them down. Because guess what? When she showed up on that halftime show stage and the flares went up.

16:37Kristin Robinson:And then also, I think we forget, there was also the blackout because the power went out in New Orleans right after she left the stage. And that was a whole nother controversy because they were like, oh, Beyonce ruins the Super Bowl. So many things happened that year. Wow.

16:54Bozoma Saint John:Man, another thing that you brought up in that story was that it's not just doing the halftime show. When you get this opportunity, you have to agree to do a lot of other things, a lot of advertising, a lot of promotion. Yeah. I think that's very interesting because I don't think that people really understand that. Yeah. What are some of the negotiations that people, besides that, that people might not know about for the Super Bowl halftime performer?

17:19Kristin Robinson:Well, I mean, look, I think every negotiation is a little bit of a push and pull, right? It's like, what do you want and what do I want? And so a lot of times what artists will also do is make sure that a project or something that they are trying to push is coming out around the same time because it's such an engine. Yeah. So the thing is, of course, your halftime show performance is probably about 13 minutes long, 12 and a half, depending. And while you're on stage, yes, of course, people are watching, et cetera. But you've got to depend on that marketing engine of the brand to push whatever else it is that you want.

17:53Kristin Robinson:And so the negotiation ahead of time is both about what the brand is looking for, because they've got to get their money's worth out of having you as a spokesperson. person and then on top of it the artist needs to also have what they need coming out of the out of the event because you know promotion is nothing if you don't have anything to promote yes well also

18:14Bozoma Saint John:something that a lot of people don't know is that you don't get a typical payment if you do the halftime show you get paid like whatever the minimum union payment is which is exactly it's a couple grand yeah it's nothing which is nothing when you're beyonce in the grand scheme of things and the amount of work and effort that goes into planning something like that. It's nothing. What they do pay for, though, is a lot of the production costs. Somewhere between$10 million to$20 million is something that I've seen before. But what I think is also really interesting is in recent years, we've heard artists like The Weeknd admit that they're putting in some of their own money to make the stage.

18:49Bozoma Saint John:Why do you think that is? Because, I mean, a$10 million to$20 million budget seems high to me. Yes, it is.

18:54Kristin Robinson:It is. But you also got to consider that this is probably... one of the largest broadcast stages that exists.

19:03Bozoma Saint John:Yeah, yeah. Certainly in America.

19:04Kristin Robinson:Oh, and globally, because now we also have the opportunity of social media, right? And so the performance is cut and shared everywhere. And so what you're thinking is that you have the largest broadcast stage, the opportunity to reach millions and millions and millions of people around the world. You want it to be your best effort. And like I said, you know, you probably have some sort of project that you're also trying to promote. So this is really like it's a Super Bowl for the teams, but it's a Super Bowl for you. Totally. And so if the budget caps and, you know, you want all kind of other pyro and you want 300 dancers instead of 100 dancers.

19:47Kristin Robinson:Yeah, you're going to have to put in some of your money and you're going to do it willingly.

19:50Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. And I mean, after the Super Bowl, obviously the exposure is really good. is one of the biggest stages, but is it, does it give enough of like a boost in sales and streams and stuff afterwards that it makes it worth it for the artist? Yeah.

20:03Kristin Robinson:What, what, from a marketing standpoint, what you think about this is a long tail,

20:06Bozoma Saint John:you know?

20:07Kristin Robinson:So yes, you're going to have the immediate boost of, you know, record streaming or, you know, somebody purchases the thing that you're trying to sell. Um, but it is the long long tail influence of your performance and your presence on that stage that actually pays out the dividends. And so all of the deals you can do afterwards and the ways that people will think of you, you know, it increases your prominence. And therefore, that's really what the benefit is of doing the performance and making sure it is literally the best performance of your life.

20:43Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things that I feel like will be brought up at your funeral.

20:47Kristin Robinson:like that it's that tier yes for sure yes importance in an artist's career i'm also

20:52Bozoma Saint John:wondering because you've worked at pepsi which was once the title sponsor of the super bowl halftime show and then apple music is now the title sponsor which you were also there at one point yes so i'm curious from the title sponsor perspective not the artist perspective um you know tell me about what it takes to become the title sponsor what is involved what obligations you have as a brand to support the halftime show and the NFL. Yeah. Tell me more about that.

21:21Kristin Robinson:Well, so first of all, these are long-term deals. You know, it's not like you get the sponsorship and you're in for one year. You know, when we did it at Pepsi, it was a 10-year deal with options to renew. And, you know, sometimes after 10 years, a lot of leadership has changed. Maybe the product has changed and therefore people don't see the value in continuing the relationship, which is what happened in the case of Pepsi. Now, I was no longer there. I probably would have fought, you know, like I would have fought like hell to keep it. But, you know, people make different decisions. I was ecstatic when Apple Music became the halftime show sponsor.

21:58Kristin Robinson:It feels like a good fit. It's a great fit. Oh, it's a great. You couldn't ask for a better fit for a music streaming service. I mean, come on. Are you kidding me? The funny thing is, though, I wasn't Apple Music when they won that bit. But I was the global head of marketing at Netflix. and little known, I also wanted it when I was at Netflix. I was like, I'm going to be the first executive to have the Super Bowl halftime show at one company and then move to another company and then I'm going to get it there too.

22:25Bozoma Saint John:If you just ignore the years on your resume, where you're at the company, that did happen, I guess.

22:31Kristin Robinson:And it could still happen. But it's, yes, it could still happen. But it was, it was really, I mean, it just made better sense for Apple Music. I mean, they're a music streaming service. They can promote, you know, the music the way that it needs to be promoted. There's obviously other artists that they can also attach to that project so that it lifts more than one person. It just it just makes total sense. And I mean, Apple is an enormous global marketer. And so to me, it's kind of a no brainer.

23:02Bozoma Saint John:So does Apple Music or Pepsi or whoever the title sponsor is, do they have to be responsible for the advertisements for the halftime show? because I've noticed like Bad Bunny is coming up and he does a lot of these ads that feel very Apple branded to me.

23:16Kristin Robinson:No, you're only responsible for your own ads inside of the Super Bowl. Right. And so and by the way, as a title sponsor, you do have a bank of ads that you can run. Oh, I think one year when I was at Apple or I'm sorry, at Pepsi, getting my company's mixed up. When I was at Pepsi, I think we had like 90 seconds maybe of TV. And so we put it all together and made like one master commercial, like a 90 second spot that led up into the halftime show, which was spectacular. Yeah, I really enjoyed that.

23:49Bozoma Saint John:I imagine that slot right before the halftime show is one of the more expensive. I imagine like the ads throughout the show, do they vary in price based on proximity to big events? But you know what?

24:00Kristin Robinson:When you're spending like six million dollars, I mean, for 30 seconds, then who, I mean, what does it matter? It's like 5.3 or 7.1. I mean, it's like at that point, you know, it's kind of all a wash. If you're going to spend that much money, you're not worried about a few hundred thousand dollars here or there.

24:15Bozoma Saint John:And so do the title sponsors have a big role in picking who the artists are? Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes.

24:21Kristin Robinson:Yes. They're almost entirely responsible. OK, because at the end of the day, you know, you paid your money to promote your brand at that moment. And so you have to have a big voice in who it is that's going to be there. I mean, I can't imagine that an artist, you know, is assigned to you and they don't match your brand values or aren't interested in your product or they use, God forbid, they use a competitive product, you know? And so, yeah. And so you, yeah, as a brand sponsor of the Super Bowl Halftime Show, you have an enormous influence on who performs.

24:55Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. And so like in that room where you're deciding who to put the offer out to, is it executives from the NFL, from the title sponsor? And then also, I mean, we now have in the mix Rock Nation. This is the seventh year that they've had a deal to, I mean, it seems like to help pick the halftime show, but I don't really know how that all intertwines. Yeah. Yeah. How does that offer go up?

25:17Kristin Robinson:I believe the NFL works with Rock Nation as a producer of the Super Bowl halftime show, which is great. I mean, again, you know, you have Jay Brown and Jay-Z at the helm of it, and they are masters, you know, at this. And so it only helps, I believe, the performance. It helps the show itself. And so, you know, working in concert with everybody shouldn't be too much of a conflict because at the end of the day, everybody wants the same thing. You want to retain viewers. You want to entertain them. And you want them to stick around for the last half of the game. And so everybody's working towards that end.

25:54Kristin Robinson:So it's a very little conflict, even though there seem to be so many players.

25:58Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. I remember that a few years ago, right before Roc Nation signed on, I think they signed on in 2019. Right before that, there were reports coming out that there are quite a few artists that were saying no to the Super Bowl halftime show. I remember one was Rihanna. For a while, she was deciding not to participate because she disagreed with the NFL. like politically speaking. And I think it was interesting for them to pair up with rock nation. I think it gave them a lot of credibility in music again. Do you think that that partnership has been effective to bringing musicians back to the Superbowl halftime show?

26:37Kristin Robinson:It was a brilliant strategic move by the NFL to partner with rock nation at the time, because I mean, they were, I mean, everybody was protesting. We were all protesting. Yeah. You know, it's like, hey, look, we want we're not on the field, but we support the players. We support Black Lives Matter. We want to make sure that this entity, which has a majority of a minority playing the sport, is respecting them and has their back. And that was not happening. And so the protests were absolutely warranted. I mean, I had many meetings with Colin Kaepernick at the start of his protests. and certainly even by the time I got to Uber, I mean, years later, you know, still worked with him.

27:20Kristin Robinson:But what ended up happening with Roc Nation was a brilliant strategic move by the NFL and also by Roc Nation to bridge the gap. Because then it's like, hey, look, like we don't want you just, you know, you sitting up there in your, you know, glass house and, you know, like top of the mountain telling us what to do. We want some of our people up in there, you know, who are going to determine what entertainment is going to look like, how people are going to be promoted and all of that. And so I actually don't think it was a, a, like a bad move. I think it was actually a very smart move for the NFL and for Roc Nation.

27:55Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. And I mean, just in general, it feels that the NFL has always been seen as a very conservative organization. They've, you know, made some bad PR moves over the years. You know, I'm wondering, you know, Does music play a role in refreshing their image for a new generation and, you know, helping the brand?

28:15Kristin Robinson:I mean, music always does. You know, music has always played a huge part in refreshing every brand. You know, that's the importance of this particular platform and industry. You know, it's like think about every jingle that is an earworm, you know, that you remember. Like if you heard it, you remember it from your childhood. you know, or an artist that was associated with a film, you know, like a lead song in a film that underscores, you know, that action. Like music is just such a visceral, beautiful way to evoke emotion that you have to use it, you know, as a way to move people either to inspiration or fear or happiness or sadness.

29:05Kristin Robinson:I mean, music is so powerful. So I don't think that as a brand, whether you're NFL or you're Pepsi or you're whomever that's embattled, that you would choose any other powerful platform than music to connect to people. We all have that dream trip we've been wishing we could go on. But too often life or usually price gets in the way. That's why Priceline is here to help you turn your dream trip into reality. With up to 60 % off hotels and up to 50 % off flights, you can book everything you need for your next adventure. Don't just dream about that next trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com and book your next trip today.

29:47Kristin Robinson:Go to your happy price. Priceline. So good. So good. So good. New markdowns up to 70 % off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now.

29:58Bozoma Saint John:And that means so many new reasons to rack. Because I always find something amazing.

30:03Kristin Robinson:Just so many good brands. Because there's always something new. Join the Nordiclub to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. When you want your spring break to feel like... And your kid's pool day to feel like...

30:29Bozoma Saint John:And your hotel bed to feel like... Ooh, and room service to feel like... Because at Hilton, hospitality feels like... Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels? It matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton, for this day. And I guess going back to the title sponsor and the importance that they play in the halftime show, So what's a ballpark for how much a title sponsorship costs at that stage?

31:02Kristin Robinson:Well, you know, here's the thing. It really varies because really what you're buying is the time. And so if like, you know, the Super Bowl is like six and a half million for 30 seconds, just do the math, you know, on how much it costs to have 13 minutes.

31:17Bozoma Saint John:Yeah.

31:17Kristin Robinson:You know, and then on top of that, you know, you're you have additional slots in the in the show itself. So that's one cost. The second cost then becomes actually sponsoring the artist. Because just because they are assigned to do the Super Bowl where they're getting paid a minimal amount of money doesn't mean they're going to stand there and hold your product for free. And so now you've got to do a separate deal with the artist in order to get them to do whatever else accoutrement you need for your brand. Yeah.

31:47Bozoma Saint John:And I also am so fascinated by the Super Bowl because it is a really tough thing to play. Yeah. You're in a stadium, tons of loud people. You have to set up and break down the stage within, I don't even know, like probably three minutes.

32:02Kristin Robinson:It's a very stressful job.

32:04Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. So what is it like to, because I imagine you had a front row seat to watch many times, the stages being built and taken apart. Tell me about that experience, watching it all happen.

32:16Kristin Robinson:I know you just said now I'm like, throw up a little bit. It's so stressful. It is so stressful. because of course, you know, you've done months of rehearsal on sound stages somewhere, and then you get like three days, you know, before the game in order to rehearse in the stadium itself. So it's, um, the coordination of production is, is a really, really tough one, because to that point, you know, you can't build it two days before and let the artist practice, you know, it's like when they rehearse on site, they're not rehearsing on the actual stage. There's no way. And so maybe you get one shot at it, you know, to actually build it, rehearse it and then go about your business.

32:58Kristin Robinson:And so the precision of the coordination is something that can't be taken lightly. You know, it's like even now, you know, like when I'm watching it, I'm sitting there like nervously biting my nails, you know, just like, oh, please make it. Please make it please. Oh, thank God they made it, you know. But as as the executive who was especially with Beyonce, I mean, that stadium in New Orleans, I mean, I remember I was running all around the stadium. You know, I think I have there's photos in my phone from from standing at the very top, like nosebleed and watching and then down in the tunnel watching.

33:37Kristin Robinson:you know like i like i was all over that stadium when the when she was done and she came off the stage and we're all like oh thank god and then the stadium goes black and we're like uh is that us was that our fault you know somebody turn on the lights you know and so the stress of that it's like every little tiny thing so it's not even just like oh get all the dancers on get all the dancers off get the you know the stage built get the stage off you know it's every single little thing that you are managing and trying to just keep on track. Wow.

34:10Bozoma Saint John:Yeah.

34:11Kristin Robinson:It's probably the most stressful 13 minutes of your life.

34:13Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. Undoubtedly. I mean, every person in America is watching. Yes. Basically. And then people around the world. And you mentioned a really good point about how now with social media, the reach of the Super Bowl halftime show is so much greater. I mean, there are probably people who are just watching clips of it on TikTok all around the world that don't care about the game at all and don't know anything about anything

34:35Kristin Robinson:about the game don't don't understand the game but they understand the music though totally and they and they want to see that and so that's why the the super bowl halftime show in my opinion is bigger than even the super bowl the super bowl is a huge platform and for sure it's like okay you have a show within the show but that show that's within the show expands yes and becomes larger like over time.

35:00Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. I mean, it's like the cultural ambassador basically of the game itself. Yeah. And I know like the NFL has tried really hard to expand the audience for the games. They've tried expanding it globally. They've tried expanding it to more women. I know it's been a huge boon for them. And I don't, I mean, I guess it's actually provoked a lot of conspiracy theories that Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey are like truly the perfect couple for them. And that now all of these women, all these Swifties are watching games that they never would have watched before. Right, right, right, right. I saw all these, like, funny things online where people were like, do you think the NFL paid Taylor Swift to date?

35:34Bozoma Saint John:Oh, my God. Can you imagine? I'm like, okay, I don't think she needs the money, y 'all. You're like, everybody, cut out.

35:37Kristin Robinson:Okay, the marriage of, like, music and sport is a very long documented, right? Like, there is no conspiracy there. And I'm like, why are they leaving Cardi B and Stefan Diggs out of the conversation? Oh, so true. You know what I'm saying? Like, why are they not the perfect couple? I know, they are not the perfect couple. Come on.

35:52Bozoma Saint John:It's true. I actually don't think I— Give Cardi her props. I know. I know. We need more Cardi clips going viral on social media at the games. But yeah, it really does feel like music is a cultural ambassador. And I mean, another thing that I think spotlights the Super Bowl on a global stage beyond just the game itself is the advertisements.

36:10Kristin Robinson:Ooh, yes.

36:12Bozoma Saint John:And I mean, of course, as you were saying before, music is like the tone set. Yes. For a lot, for everything. Yeah. And so, I mean, these music spots, the ads themselves are millions of dollars, as we've talked about.

36:25Kristin Robinson:To produce and to put on.

36:27Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. So, I mean, from an advertiser perspective, where does music sit in their mind in levels of importance when they're spending this much money? Is this like kind of the final thing that they're working on where they can cut budget when they need to? Or is it is it the first thing they start with? Tell me. Tell me about that process. You know what?

36:44Kristin Robinson:Okay, so consecutively, I can probably estimate that aside from producing the Super Bowl halftime show, I was an advertiser in the Super Bowl for probably 15 years. So I have lots and lots of experience being an advertiser inside of the show, regardless of if it was on the show or not.

37:04Bozoma Saint John:Yes.

37:04Kristin Robinson:Or I'm sorry, whether or not the Super Bowl halftime show was mine or not. I was also an advertiser. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The idea of a Super Bowl commercial for every brand is the biggest thing on the advertising calendar. There is no competition. Full stop. Full stop. And so you're beginning to plan for Super Bowl, I would say in like an April for the next year. You know, already starting to concept like what is the product that is going to be your hero? What agency is going to pitch, you know, the ideas? Are you going to have a celebrity as a spokesperson inside of it? What music are you going to license for the spot itself?

37:45Kristin Robinson:How long should it be? Are you trying to do an epic or you're trying to do like a 15 second? And there's so many decisions to be made and each one of them is huge. And so I can't say that music is the end all be all or it's like the final touch that puts it all together. But when you're thinking about the gravity of all of those decisions together, they really do have to work in concert in order for it to work. Because if you have a funny commercial, you can't have some like, you know, big like Baz Luhrmann, like, you know, like song, like, you know, it's coming out of the speaker. You can't do that.

38:23Kristin Robinson:And so the music is going to be decided after, of course, you've chosen what the commercial is and what product is going to be the hero and perhaps even who is going to be in it.

38:35Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so you're saying that the advertising conversations start happening basically right after the Super Bowl, maybe a month or two after. Is that the same case for the halftime show? Yes. OK.

38:48Kristin Robinson:Yes, I'm almost certain that Apple Music has a pretty short list for who's next on the Super Bowl halftime show stage.

38:57Bozoma Saint John:I mean, there's only so many people who can do it and please the audience, I feel like.

39:02Kristin Robinson:But that's the thing. I think that also, if you're, you know, a marketer worth your salt, that's an opportunity. You know, I mean, look, people, like I said already, people talk to a lot of crap. I'll keep it clean about Beyonce.

39:18Bozoma Saint John:Yeah.

39:18Kristin Robinson:OK, before we did it. And when we did it, it was kind of like we told you, you know, Bruno Mars had the same thing.

39:27Bozoma Saint John:Really?

39:28Kristin Robinson:Oh, my God.

39:29Bozoma Saint John:Yes. It's like just so mainstream pop to me. But that's now.

39:33Kristin Robinson:Yeah. You know, at the time he performed in 2014. Yeah. At the time, he did have a few hits. But again, the NFL, all of the focus groups said that he wouldn't connect and that he needed the Red Heart Chili Peppers to be with him. But guess what? Also another rebel, because that first opening sequence of the performance was Bruno by himself on the drums. And it was magical because he was like, oh, yeah, you think you think I can entertain this audience? You know what I mean? It was so brilliant and wonderful. And so I do think that if, you know, you have a love of music, you're an executive who is in the music business, you have an artist who has the potential, then you must find somebody to take the risk and put them on.

40:26Bozoma Saint John:yeah yeah and going back to to the advertising part of the super bowl do you have any super bowl ads that you worked on that come to mind that you're really proud of oh gosh i know that's a tough question with yes like choosing your life's favorite baby you know what i'm saying

40:44Kristin Robinson:gosh there's so many god trying to think i mean it doesn't have to be your favorite just one of Well, one of the most outlandish ones was actually at my time at Netflix. It was such a crazy idea. And essentially we built like these aliens, you know, who were downloading all of the content, you know, from the world and trying to learn about Earth. and so it was just a bunch of like Netflix content that was like populating their screens and they're digesting and you can see them like flying through space and coming to the planet you know and it was like it was such a weird little commercial and I loved it I loved it you know yeah well the thing is that the Super Bowl is also the opportunity to do some just outlandish stuff you know it's like yeah it's like you know it's a lot of money it's certainly a lot of risk you're probably going to get fired if it doesn't win the ad meter.

41:46Kristin Robinson:But, you know, that's where the greats are made. Go pick or go home. Yeah, so you got to go for it. Do some weird stuff.

41:54Bozoma Saint John:Yeah, and what I'm really looking forward to this year, because I'm really not that much of a sports person, to be honest, is I'm just looking forward to Bad Bunny at the halftime show. That's why I'm watching. He's going to crush.

42:06Kristin Robinson:He's going to crush. I cannot wait.

42:09Bozoma Saint John:Yeah, there's obviously been so much controversy around booking him because he speaks Spanish and he's not from the contiguous 48 United States.

42:17Kristin Robinson:Is that the most insane thing you've ever heard in your life? I know. I'm like, okay, realistically,

42:21Bozoma Saint John:he is one of the biggest artists on the planet and one of the best performers. Yeah. So who else do you want them to pick?

42:26Kristin Robinson:Yeah, and also I'm just like, what are you talking about? Yes, football is an American sport, but do you know how many non-Americans have performed during the Super Bowl halftime show? Yeah, and he's from Puerto Rico. I mean, hello, hello, British people. I mean, they're like every other year, they're on the stage. So true. So I think that the argument is based in racism. And nothing else. Full stop. We don't need to make an excuse for it. We don't need to be like, oh, well, he's just. No, you're just racist. Sit down. You know? And let the man perform. We have an incredible opportunity for an artist who's going to be around for a very long time to see them at this moment in time.

43:02Kristin Robinson:To stamp them in history. And let them do it. And enjoy it, by the way.

43:07Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. And Bad Bunny just went on one of the biggest tours of 2025. and he decided, this is very interesting, he decided during his tour that he was not going to come to the U.S. specifically because he said that he was worried about ice raids at his shows. Yeah, at his concerts. Yeah. And so him deciding to do the Super Bowl in the United States after making that stance I think was shocking for a lot of people. I'm wondering what message do you think that he's trying to send with his Super Bowl halftime performance?

43:34Kristin Robinson:Well, first of all, again, let's just be real, okay? Do you know how much of the tickets cost to go to the Super Bowl? I can't even. A lot of money. A lot of money. OK.

43:42Bozoma Saint John:Yeah.

43:43Kristin Robinson:If ICE comes there to raid, it will be lawsuits everywhere. These are people who have means, who, you know, are not going to who who have access. Right now, what is happening is that Bad Bunny was, of course, concerned about ICE raids at his concerts because he knows is low hanging fruit. You know, it's like people who may not have access to hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend themselves should they be picked up. And so it made absolute sense that he was like, hey, look, I want to protect my people, my audience from unnecessary harassment. But at the Super Bowl itself, it's going to be a pretty tough situation for anyone to come in there and pick anybody off.

44:24Kristin Robinson:And so I think it's the perfect place for him to make a wildly political statement, knowing that his fans are safe from the hands of tyranny. Yeah.

44:34Bozoma Saint John:I mean, I'm really interested to see what kind of messages he works into his show. I think he certainly will. I think he will take this opportunity. And I feel like, I mean, Kendrick last year also took the opportunity as well. I think we're definitely seeing people take that moment on the stage, despite the fact that the NFL is typically not seen as a very progressive organization, to use that moment to spread the messages that they'd like to spread. for sure so i'm very curious to see what happens there and also the songs are just bangers

45:04Kristin Robinson:but that's the thing i mean oh gosh i can't remember who said it but somebody said it that you know it's like artists are our mirror you know to our time whether they're visual or music or otherwise uh and so again this isn't the first time that artists have made political statements using their art or athletes. And so I think we have a bigger opportunity besides Bad Bunny to hopefully see somebody stand up for what is happening.

45:37Bozoma Saint John:Yeah. And I mean, so this has been so interesting. I want to ask you a few like bigger picture questions about marketing and advertising. I'm wondering when you look back on all the different campaigns that you did, what do you really think separates your good ideas from the truly iconic great ones how can you differentiate gosh

46:00Kristin Robinson:i don't know you don't know what's going to resonate you know it's like even at your level it's still a guess you don't know it's still a guess the only thing you can do is go with your complete gut, you know, because the thing you love may land and everybody says it sucks, but you loved it. That's why you're in the job. That's why you're in the seat, you know, and that's why it makes it a tough job because you have to make the call on what is actually going to go. I mean, you're going to see hundreds of ideas, hundreds, and out of them, you're going to pick one and it's your choice on what you're picking.

46:39Kristin Robinson:And then hopefully it lands. And so I think that there are, I mean, certainly in my career, there have been moments when commercials, you know, were like something I loved, but I didn't think were going to impact culture the way they did. You know, like when I was at Apple Music, I did a very, what was supposed to be a very small commercial with Mary J. Blige, Tarashi P. Henson, and Kerry Washington, shot by Ava DuVernay, by the way.

47:06Bozoma Saint John:How was that ever going to be small, though? Those are the most iconic names.

47:10Kristin Robinson:Well, because we didn't have a lot of money. Okay, we spent all the money on Drake and Taylor Swift.

47:14Bozoma Saint John:Okay.

47:15Kristin Robinson:To be very honest, okay? God. And of course, I mean, those are two of the biggest pop stars at the time. So that's where you spend your money. That's where you make the big production. But the strategy at the time was also that we had to get all kind of cohorts of people, right? Including what we called Gatekeeper Mom. The woman who's about 35 to 55. She has the credit card on iTunes. She's the one who's going to pay for Apple Music. You know, that person is who we need to get to because when her kid comes and says, I need$9.99 a month, she needs to be able to know what the hell they're talking about.

47:50Bozoma Saint John:Wow.

47:50Kristin Robinson:And so I decided that, and by the way, that mom is mostly of color, the most powerful in the homes. And so I decided to make a commercial with the three of them to explain what Apple Music was because at the time, nobody understood streaming. We were introducing it for the first time. and in fact fun fact uh the playlist that mary carrie and taraji play and react to in the commercial is mine it it was made for me by one of the music editors carl cherry at apple music for my birthday oh well and we used that and it had the phil collins in there you know what i mean in the air tonight of course i mean come on who doesn't play the air drums when that comes on you know um but it was it was such a a beautiful moment because at the time that i released the commercial it was also the first time in the emmys where five black women were nominated for acting awards and so i bought a little tiny 30 second commercial in the emmys and put that commercial in it and it went bananas wow i mean it was like the next morning it was like freaking the today show and good morning america cbs this morning everybody's like oh we want to be in mary day blige's living room playing air guitar and air drums and i was like wow you know and the funny thing is that that night i was actually sitting in the audience of the emmys when the commercial went live and i was sitting there thinking again i mean look i'm always thinking I'm going to get fired.

49:29Kristin Robinson:And so I was sitting there and I was just like, I was like, man, if this tanks, like, oh, that's the end of this. And then my phone starts like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I get an email from Tim Cook, who's the CEO of Apple, copied a bunch of people. And he said, who's responsible for this ad? And I was like, oh, well, let me gather my person. Where's my 401k? You know what I mean? and um i oh man i remember like swallowing hard you know and i was still sitting in my seat at the show and i swallowed hard and i reply all and i was like good evening tim mr cook exactly i'm responsible for the commercial on the emmys tonight and he and he responded he was just like well done we should do more of those i said somebody give me a raise we're a matter of fact Put me in charge of everything.

50:22Bozoma Saint John:Wow.

50:23Kristin Robinson:Oh my goodness. But yeah, but you know, it's like, I don't think that as an executive in this space, you ever know how these things are going to land. You're going to, you think it's great. You know, that's why you make it. You make it from here, you know, but sometimes it, it sucks and it takes and people hate it. And then your job is in jeopardy.

50:44Bozoma Saint John:We have a lot of people that listen to the show that are in the music industry. We have a lot of marketers like those and a lot of young people. A lot of people were hoping to have the kind of level of impact that you've been able to have to work on things that are as big as the Super Bowl. I'm wondering, as like a parting piece of advice, what do you think a young person who's in a kind of lower tier marketing role could be doing now to set them up for that?

51:10Kristin Robinson:Oh, my God. It's my favorite. It's like my favorite. You know, because. that moment in time, like you shouldn't take for granted, you know, it is the most magical of times. You know, you, you have enough naivete that you don't know all of the terrible things that could go wrong, you know? And it's, it's such a beautiful thing. You know, they say that youth is wasted on the young because you don't realize that it is the most free you will ever be. and that's when you should take the big swing. That's when you should be bold with your ideas. You know, not try to people please and follow the brief to the letter.

51:51Kristin Robinson:You know, come up with some weird concepts. You know, something that feels to you like, oh, you know what? Let me see, where's the wind blowing? You know, let me go with that idea because that's what's going to make you iconic. And by the way, that kind of practice is what's going to make you bold later on. Like you don't make it to the C-suite and then all of a sudden you become bold. If you are timid and people pleasing at the beginning, you're going to be worse when you get into that room. And by the way, you'll be a total failure and you won't make any impact.

52:22Bozoma Saint John:You probably won't even get there. Well, girl, yeah.

52:24Kristin Robinson:Well, you know, somebody might slide you a little favor, but you know what I mean? Yeah. Like if you get there, you're not going to make impact. There's, you know, we won't name them, but there are plenty of CMOs who are in their jobs who aren't making impact. They're just over here pushing paper around. Yeah. You know, keeping the boat steady. And they're going to keep their dash a little while because, you know, nobody wants to rock the boat. Everybody wants the stock price to be high. But if you want to impact culture, if you want to move it ahead, if you want to become iconic, then you've got to take the risk.

52:52Kristin Robinson:And the only way to do that is to be true to self. You know, again, I think that a lot of times we think that everything has to become vanilla in order for us all to understand. You know, take the current political climate, take any situation in society. We think that, oh, we must all agree in order for it to be peaceful, in order for everybody to get along, in order for this idea to win. And that is not the truth. You know, it's like the beauty of humanity is our differences and the ways in which we contribute our unique experiences to an idea. And so it's like if you're a young person who is trying to make an impact, who wants a sharp career, who wants to be remembered, then you must bring your full self.

53:37Kristin Robinson:You must bring the weird ideas that you're concepting in your mind. You must bring your obsession of the boo-boos to the boardroom. You must do it. And I don't know that without my complete obsession with Carmen the hip-hoppera, which other people panned, which the people in the office snickered when I suggested it, that I'd be sitting here today if I didn't have the courage to say it. And so I plead with anyone who is at the beginning of their career to use it, to use this moment, to take advantage of your youth, to make sure that you are fearless in the confidence of yourself and bring that.

54:22Kristin Robinson:The people above you, they don't know any better than you. So bring your ideas. It's probably better anyway.

54:28Bozoma Saint John:I think that's great advice, especially what you said about how you're not suddenly going to become bold and courageous once you reach the C-suite. Never. weren't bold and courageous at the beginning. Because I think that being bold and being courageous is a muscle. And it's something that has to be exercised.

54:45Kristin Robinson:Exactly right.

54:46Bozoma Saint John:And I think those are great parting words. But before we head off, I have a couple little fun game things. Yes, let's do it. I love games. Okay. So this one is, I'm just kind of calling it like your dream lineup for the Super Bowl. So this is just like, it's like fantasy football, All but for the music part of it. So I'm wondering, who would you like to see do the Super Bowl halftime show? Who hasn't done it yet?

55:13Kristin Robinson:Who hasn't done it yet? Oh, my God. Adele.

55:17Bozoma Saint John:Okay. Who would be a special guest at Adele's Super Bowl?

55:21Kristin Robinson:Hmm.

55:23Bozoma Saint John:Davido. Ooh, okay. I love that. Who would sing the national anthem?

55:28Kristin Robinson:Ooh. That's some pipes that I really... who has not sung it yet and has not performed. If you want to bring someone back, you can. I'll allow it in this fantasy. I know, right? Exactly. Made up game. I think, I mean, she's not American, but it would be so amazing to hear Celine Dion sing the national anthem.

55:47Bozoma Saint John:That would be amazing.

55:48Kristin Robinson:I mean, she's kind of at the end of her career with her illness and everything. So it would be wonderful.

55:55Bozoma Saint John:That would be a great send off.

55:56Kristin Robinson:Yeah.

55:57Bozoma Saint John:What song would you like to see be used in an ad? and what would the company be who is doing the ad?

56:04Kristin Robinson:Ooh, what song would I like in an ad and what would the company be? Hmm. You know, God, this is a hard one.

56:16Kristin Robinson:I'm trying to think of something I have not worked on. That's the hard part. I'm like, okay, let's go auto. Because I'm like, I've never worked in the auto industry. so how about Porsche and ooh it feels like it needs to be like the boss like one of his songs

56:40Bozoma Saint John:okay I love that and if you were on the team what would you be playing in the locker room to pump everyone up before the game

56:48Kristin Robinson:Tupac

56:49Bozoma Saint John:oh I love that call that's perfect that's perfect okay And then at the end of every show, we always do the segment called Make Me a Playlist. Okay. Where we have you pick three songs and we'll add it to a playlist along with all of our other guests. So the prompts are always the same. Okay. The first is, what's a song that you can no longer gatekeep? So a song that's either a deep cut on one of your favorite artists' projects or a song that, or an artist that people just don't know yet. Tupac Machiavelli.

57:20Kristin Robinson:Oh, great. Deep cut.

57:21Bozoma Saint John:Great. A favorite throwback?

57:25Kristin Robinson:Evelyn Champagne King. Yeah.

57:29Bozoma Saint John:Perfect. And what is a guilty pleasure?

57:32Kristin Robinson:A guilty pleasure song? Yes. Oh, God. Ice Ice Baby Vanilla Ice. That's great. Okay. And that concludes our show.

57:43Bozoma Saint John:Boz, thank you so much for coming to On The Record. Thank you.

57:45Kristin Robinson:Thank you. I appreciate it. That was fun.

57:48Bozoma Saint John:All right.

57:50Kristin Robinson:Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Sierra Ultra. That's the OG. It kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian, Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the monster energy punch. So if you've been living in the white can, branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe. And every single one is zero sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.

58:18Bozoma Saint John:Thank you so much to Bozoma St. John for joining me to talk about the big Super Bowl halftime show ahead. Now it's time to dive into our Charts Roundup to learn more about this week's biggest movers and shakers. Here is the Hot 100 Top 10 for the week dated February 7th. Coming in at number 10, it's Opalite by Taylor Swift. Nine is Folded by Kehlani. In the eighth position, it's Back to Friends by Sombra. Seven is Ordinary by Alex Warren. I Just Might by Bruno Mars comes in at six. Number five this week is The Fate of Ophelia by Taylor Swift. Fourth is Golden by Huntrix.

59:15Bozoma Saint John:Man I Need by Olivia Dean comes in third. Number two this week is Choose in Texas by Ella Langley. And finally, number one on the Billboard Hot 100 chart for the week of February 7th, it's Aperture by Harry Styles in its first week at number one. Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode of On the Record. If you like today's show, please give us a follow on Instagram at Billboard On The Record, where you can find new clips of the show every single week. We'd also appreciate it if you could rate our show on your favorite podcast platform, because all of these kind of things help On The Record grow bigger and better and to reach new people.

59:57Bozoma Saint John:Again, I'm your host, Kristen Robinson, and tune in next week for another peek behind the curtain of the music business. I'll see you then.

1:00:09énergie