How Trump's Immigration Policies Impact Latin Music w/ Griselda Flores

22:53Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I want to talk about another festival, the Michalada Festival, which is in your hometown of Chicago.

23:01Griselda Flores:Yeah. That got canceled this summer. Can you tell me a little bit more about what happened there? Well, Los Alegres del Barranco, who were the first ones to go through this publicly, were part of that festival. They were on the lineup. but I think they were Michelada Fest when that happened they were able to just sort of bring in another artist and that was sort of like the fix then when that happened but then I think it was in May that they officially announced that they were cancelling the entire event and they were saying it was due to uncertainty surrounding artist visas And then I jumped on the phone with one of the founders.

23:46Griselda Flores:And he was saying that at the end, first, you know, they heard about Los Alegres and they thought, OK, maybe that's just an isolated event. Yeah, yeah. It's like it's Arco Coritos. Maybe the other artists are fine. Yeah. They're making a case out of them. Right. But they did have other regional Mexican artists who were on their lineup. And at least one of them, we know for sure publicly that they also got their visa revoked. so he said you know internally we were hearing about all these artists who were getting the revoced do we give people just sort of like a you know last minute lineup or do we make sure that we're being super transparent with them and say like we'd rather cancel this year and come back strong stronger if you know if possible next year so they ended up canceling because they were dealing with that internally where it wasn't just Los Alegres del Barranco, but a whole bunch of other artists were also dealing with the same thing.

24:48What are the financial implications for a major venue or a major festival like Michelada when they cancel like this? Like, is there, do they have to give everyone their money back? Is there insurance for something like this?

25:01Griselda Flores:Obviously, we know that there's force majeure with insurance that covers whenever, you know, a show gets canceled because of something, I think like hurricanes or something. like that god yeah this would be like an act of trump so right we need that in there in the fine front yeah um but visa issues are not in there so it's not covered right so it's up to um you know it's a total loss at that point because insurance doesn't cover um but it's really it was really sad for michelada fest because this is a festival that went from being like a street festival a very local Chicago festival and it had just grown a lot.

25:41Griselda Flores:I mean, you had Caliuchis who had headlined it last year. So it was just really like in a growing moment. It was growing. And, you know, for it to happen to them this time around, it's an independent company like from Chicago. It impacted local vendors that they hire, merch that they were hiring, security. He was saying, you know this is a big contract for a lot of the people that we that we hire security I mean this we were their biggest contract of the year and now they don't have that gig anymore wow I mean it's crazy how if you you watch the domino effect it's not just the artist taking the hit it's not just the fans being inconvenienced there's the venue and all the vendors as you were saying um like this is a really random aside but I once took a um well so I went to USC and I did their music industry program and they had a class called music festivals and we had to like plan out hypothetical music festivals and think about all the logistics and one of the big things that we focused on in that class was how many porta potties do you need like all of these like random things that no one would think about how much how much fencing do you need how much security do you want to ramp up security due to gun violence potential you know it's I it is really fascinating how many minute details go into something like that and how many contractors there are involved in it.

27:09Griselda Flores:Yeah, totally. Even the port-a-potty thing was something that he thought about too. That company that we hired, we were their biggest event of the year and how they don't have that gig anymore. It impacts not just the artists, but so many agencies around it, so many people. Yeah. And so do you think that there's good odds that they're able to come back next year after this financial loss? I hope so. I'm rooting for them again because this is a Chicago, very hyper local people who are working the events that the founders are from Chicago. And again, it had just grown so much. So I think the community will rally together and hopefully we'll see them come back.

27:50There have been some other high profile instances of visas being revoked. The one that I always come back to, because you think you've written about it a couple times now, And it's been very interesting to watch. Julio Alvarez. Can you talk to me about that situation and what happened there?

28:07Griselda Flores:Los Alegres del Barranco were a little bit lesser known. Julio Alvarez is a huge Mexican artist. At one point, he was the box office king here in the U.S. What a title. Right. He's an interesting case, I will say, because in 2018, he 2017 or 2018, he was having some issues with the U.S. government, with the U.S. Treasury. So he couldn't come work to the U.S. His visa was revoked. He couldn't come here legally because of those issues with the Treasury. So what were the issues? Do you know? Money laundering, something of that sort. So he wasn't allowed to come into the U.S. or work in the U.S. This was at the peak of his career when they had just called him the box office king.

28:59Griselda Flores:So it definitely derailed his career here in the States. And this was before regional Mexican music was even like a global thing, right? So he had just announced his comeback tour because those issues had been cleared. He was able to come back to the U.S. He got a visa. His visa was approved. He was ready to go. Like this was one of the most highly anticipated tours in Musica Mexicana. I mean, the box office king was coming back. Right. As soon as he announced a few shows, they sold out. He did three sold out SoFi stadiums in April. That's how big he is. Yeah. I mean, I think that's very shocking to folks that are not following the space very much.

29:44That is way bigger than, I mean, so many other artists. Like, I don't know how to articulate about it, but that is huge. It was a huge deal. So he got to do those shows at SoFi in Los Angeles? Okay.

29:58Griselda Flores:And that was in April. He got to do those shows. So he got his visa approved. Yeah. He got to do those shows. He went to LA. He went, after those shows, he went back to Mexico. And I think this was perhaps maybe a mistake. He went back to Mexico after those shows. And he tried to come back in May for his show in Texas, the AT &T Stadium. He had a show that Saturday and he was traveling on Friday. So just the day before he decided to travel to Texas. And at the airport, they informed him that he couldn't travel because his visa was revoked. Super last minute, obviously a day before this massive show.

30:42Griselda Flores:And I think it really just left his team sort of in shock and scrambling to try to figure out what was going on. I was lucky enough to speak to the promoter, Henry Cardenas, who's actually based here in Chicago. and he's the CEO and founder of one of the biggest indie Latin promoters. And he was very honest about the whole situation, just saying like even in his 40-year career, 40 plus, he had never seen anything like that where a visa was just revoked so last minute a day before a show. So he got no warning? It's not like he got a phone call or one of his lawyers heard that there was some trouble?

31:24Griselda Flores:No. I just I find that so fascinating. And I mean, yeah, you'd think he would have more of a heads up. But yeah, I mean, from there, I guess he has to cancel everything. And then he had to. Yeah, he had to cancel everything. Well, I think he said that it was postponed until like further notice. But I spoke to Henry and he was saying it was a total loss. Like we lost two million dollars that day, like for that show, because, you know, you have labor and production. production everything was a loss and he's like we can't keep losing two million dollars every weekend like this is insane like we need to do something about it were there a lot more dates on the tour after AT &T no that was the the last one day I'm not sure if it was two shows or one show but he was he was about to announce a tour a tour was coming uh and again this was supposed to be part of like his comeback tour.

32:22Griselda Flores:So that all just sort of got derailed. And even to this day, like he hasn't been able to come back. We don't know if he's going to tour or not. But that's, you know, the promoter that I spoke to, he was saying these guys, Julio Alvarez makes 10 million dollars in a show in the US. You don't make that amount of money in Mexico and or in any other Latin American country. Like this is this is big. Like artists are losing a bunch of money. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that is crazy. I mean, so are the monetary opportunities generally for Latin artists larger in the U.S. if you can break into that market?

33:00Griselda Flores:Totally. OK. I mean, you know this. The U.S. is still the number one global market. This is where, you know, you get the money. The streams are which I leave that to you because I know you more. You know more about that. I will actually explain this if anyone's listening and is not aware of this. So, I mean, the cost of having a Spotify subscription, for example, is different based on where you live. Because obviously something that costs a fair amount to a U.S. person might be totally different for someone in India or someone in Poland or wherever. The buying power of consumers informs the price that Spotify will list their subscriptions at or any streaming service.

33:40It's not just Spotify. And so the corresponding royalty pool for artists in that country are dependent on how much users are paying for the service. So in a place like the U.S., you can certainly earn a lot more streaming dollars than if a stream came from the Philippines or another country where it might be a lower cost price point. So, yeah, that would be true for probably most of Latin America.

34:08Griselda Flores:To be a global artist, you have to come to the U.S. and establish yourself as an artist here. You want to meet with the DSPs in person. You know, you want to do promo out here with media outlets. This is where the biggest awards happen, our awards, the Latin Grammys. Right. You want to make sure that you have a presence here in the U.S. because, again, this is the number one market for music in live or in streams. Right. So this is detrimental to an artist's career. And this is going to sound like a really dumb question. I actually don't know the answer to it. Is the Latin music industry primarily based in Miami or is there a base outside of the U.S.

34:49that is more of the primary location?

34:53Griselda Flores:Before it used to be LA because of its proximity to Mexico. And Mexico is probably the biggest market in Latin America. Brazil as well. But yeah, I think it was LA for Latin music. Now it's probably Miami, between LA and Miami. So basically, if you are not able to come to the US, it's not just like, oh, I can't do this one tour that I wish I could do. It's also probably songwriting sessions and getting in the room with your label executives and your managers and the folks that can really propel your career forward. Yeah, that should still be like an important part of a release plan coming to the U.S.

35:32Griselda Flores:and having that presence. Interesting. So like, have you heard about stuff like that, like songwriting camps being affected by artists that are either afraid to travel or are not allowed to? What have you been hearing in that space, if anything? Yeah, I think it's impacting just the entire business of what Latin music is, right? I think our focus always goes to the artists and what that looks like for them. But it's impacting, I'm sure, their labels, right? Promoters, venues here, will they try to be more flexible and be able to change dates here and there? Songwriting camps, I'm sure, have also been impacted.

36:12Griselda Flores:for one of the stories that I just did. I spoke to an executive at an indie promoter who was saying like one of their marquee artists, he lost the tour when he's their biggest source of income. And when their artist loses their biggest source of income, which is a tour in the US, like he literally feared that the company would go down. Like would they have to shut down operations, downsize as a team? He was scared of losing his job. So this is impacting like all areas of the business. I think it's easy to forget that there are a lot of independent labels and other sorts of companies within the music industry that are kind of relying and banking on their one breakout.

36:57Yeah. And it funds everything else. I hear this all the time. And I mean, it's a very dangerous position to be in as an independent company to not have a second or third star to just be relying on one. But obviously, everyone would love to have more stars. So it's no one's fault. I'm sure they're trying to work more all the time.

37:17Griselda Flores:Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, that is definitely an issue. I'm wondering, throughout all of this reporting, it sounds like you've spoken to so many different people at so many different angles. but were people afraid to talk to you at any point? Some were really open to speaking to me, like that promoter who's, I mean, he's been around for many years. He's a veteran and he's, you know, he was very nice enough to speak to me on the record. He was the one that, you know, saw the issues the first month that Trump went into office and had to cancel some shows in Northern California. So he was very nice about it just because he's been around for many years.

37:56Griselda Flores:He's dealt with this in the past. That was one example of a conversation that I had. Others, you know, were also honest in saying, you know, we haven't felt an impact yet. Maybe it's too early, too soon to tell what sort of, you know, what we can expect will happen. And I, you know, I get that. Just because I was calling them up in January and they were like, he just took office. We don't know what's going to happen. Yeah, yeah, so true. And, you know, there were others who were very scared that I was doing this type of reporting. At least two people asked me not to write this story. Oh, wow. Wait, so why did they not want it to get out?

38:33Because, I mean, you're the one taking the risk putting it under your name. But, like, wouldn't they want people to understand the issues that the Latin music industry is facing?

38:43Griselda Flores:I mean, it's such a sensitive topic, right? You're talking about a very vulnerable community when you're talking about undocumented immigrants. And I get that, right? I have always been very careful about that type of reporting. I went to school and I studied social justice journalism. Um, so I, I get that. But I think maybe for them, they were just scared that we would expose something so negative about what was happening, happening with within Latin music, right? People losing money. I don't think people want that to come out, that they're losing money in any sort of, you know, capacity. It is so rare to find a source who's willing to be honest about the fact that they have taken a big financial hit because it's I mean, even if it's out of their control, it obviously doesn't make them look amazing.

39:34So, yeah, it takes a lot of bravery to actually be able to be honest about that.

39:38Griselda Flores:Exactly. And I recognize that so much from Henry Cardenas, who talked about Julio Nalvarez just because he was so honest about it. And I think he was really like the first big executive to say like, hey, we need to talk about this because this could jeopardize our entire industry. So it was a lot of very different conversations that I was having, having just a lot of back and forth, trying to get sources to feel comfortable with me. Because, I mean, I get it. Like I was just coming in and asking these questions from like out of the blue. So it's I'm not upset at them because, again, no one wants to talk about this.

40:18Griselda Flores:But, you know, Kristen, we're journalists and we have to follow the story. We have to follow the numbers. And this was the thing that was happening. As your reporting went on, because you've written several stories about this topic. Did you feel like people warmed up to you a little bit more because they knew more about what they would expect from your resulting stories? Maybe the first story that I wrote, which was more, you know, like what could happen under the Trump administration? I think people were just like, oh, like, OK, you know, that was a good story. But I didn't really get any feedback from the industry.

40:53Griselda Flores:My second story, which was the regional Mexican artists going through these visa issues. everyone on you know that I follow that follows me from the industry was reposting this story and and I think it was the real it was the first time that you know they saw a story like this where it was out in the open and we couldn't just like slide it under the rug anymore like this was impacting our industry in a very real way I actually made a reel or like a TikTok about it And that was a very high performing one for me, too. It seemed like that was something it just felt like it hit the zeitgeist. Like everyone was talking about it.

41:33Everyone wanted to see your reporting on it. What was new in your most recent reporting that just came out last week?

41:40Griselda Flores:If an artist gets their visa revoked, how can that impact their career growth? And that's when I really started writing about the stream effect and how a stream is worth more here. the importance of doing promo out here. And if they don't, that that could really derail their career. And I touched on the Cuban artists, issues that they're going through now because of the travel ban that was imposed in June. So that's really kind of like what's new. And again, it's still a lot of reporting. These stories take time. So I know that I always say, like, oh, I'm working on this and I don't release it till like two months later.

42:21No, I mean, that's the thing that I think my non-journalist friends just like really don't understand that you don't just go out with something because you heard a rumor. No. Maybe that rumor seems very, very true and very possible. You're going to need to dive really deep and get a bunch of sources. And especially with a sensitive topic, there's some people who will never want to go on the record. They'll never want to be associated with the story and you have to figure out how to handle that. So, yeah, two months makes a lot of sense. I would understand if it was like six months, too. It's a big challenge.

42:56Griselda Flores:And sometimes you have to run with a story without many on the record interviews and the record interviews. But I am having on background interviews off the record because people feel more comfortable that way. So a lot of my stories you'll see they're like, oh, this person, you know, preferred to be anonymous or on background. Or maybe there's just like two people that I actually named because that's who was willing to speak to me on the record. But in, you know, in the process, I'm interviewing so many people that at the end, I'm like, I think I've spoken to way too many people at this point.

43:32I think going back to the visa issues, visas being revoked specifically, the examples that you've given so far are people who have had issues with. Well, I mean, you have one Narco Corridos example, which although that might be a free speech issue, you know, it's like glorifying cartels is maybe not the most palatable thing. And then you have Julio Alvarez, who had some issues with the Treasury Department previously. Are there any examples of artists that are getting their visas revoked and there is absolutely no rhyme or reason behind it?

44:08Griselda Flores:Yeah, I mean, Grupo Firme is another group that we know for sure went through this in a very public way because they had to cancel a show at a festival performance in June. And this group, they've been on the cover of Billboard. Wait, didn't you write that? I wrote that one. Shout out. I know. I'm like, they're huge. Right. They were selling out stadiums in the U.S. And they're not really like a narco querido type of band. Right. They've performed one or two, but they're you know, their work is mainly romantic songs, party songs. And then, you know, we heard that their visa had been revoked. And I think that's the scary part.

45:05Griselda Flores:Right. Are they just seeing a regional Mexican artist and assuming that they're singing in Arco Corridos when they're not? Like that is not who they are. And that's that's one that really sort of like shook me where it's like, you know, are we just assuming because they sing regional Mexican that they're talking about cartels? And I think that's where it gets really scary, where it just doesn't, you know, wipe out a whole genre or derail a whole movement that we've been seeing because they're just assuming that, oh, you're a regional Mexican, you won't get a visa. Wow. Yeah. And I mean, very, very recently moving outside of regional Mexican, Bad Bunny, Puerto Rican born Bad Bunny, biggest one of the biggest stars in the world, has said that he does not want to tour the U.S.

45:55because of what was it? Was it ice or?

46:00Griselda Flores:Yeah. Yeah. Ice could show up at his concert. Wow. And are there any examples that you've heard of of ice actually showing up or is there more of just a chilling effect by the fact that it could happen. We've never heard reports of I showing up to a show, a concert. I think it's just like that, you know, fear of, you know, what if it does happen, right? Again, we haven't heard of that actually happening. And when Bad Bunny said that publicly, I mean, he's the biggest, probably the biggest Latin artist today. He's global. you know we were talking about it before like he doesn't need to tour the u.s at this point because he's such a big artist but for him to say that publicly and acknowledge that as a real fear i think it's going to open the doors for many other artists who were thinking this just were you know didn't want to say it out loud i'm sure they've been dealing it with dealing with it privately within their own teams and have been talking about it.

47:06Griselda Flores:But Bad Bunny actually saying it, I think it's going to now really start conversations. And there's no way to hide it anymore. When Bad Bunny is saying, I'm scared I could show up to one of my shows. Like, you can't hide it anymore. Like, this is a reality. Like, why did he feel brave enough to say that? He's Puerto Rican born, which means he's a U.S. citizen. So I think that was probably something that made him feel like have that courage to really say it. Whereas other artists maybe don't feel comfortable just because they're not from the U.S. They don't want to get into that type of politics.

47:44Griselda Flores:That doesn't mean they haven't spoken about like being in solidarity with the immigrant community. I think we've seen that from a bunch of Latin artists. But I think, yeah, I think that really, you know, encouraged Bad Bunny to speak up using, you know, privilege in the correct way of, you know, being able to speak up and say that something that is impacting an entire community, his fan base. What about more localized neighborhood music events? I think you've written about By List in the past. Do you mind talking a little bit more about that? So like the local scene, I would say is even in a more vulnerable position.

48:23Griselda Flores:I think Michalada Fest is like a really clear example of that. Just, you know, even wondering, like, could they come back next year just because they're an indie company. So the local scene here, I mean, we even had in Chicago Cinco de Mayo parade being canceled because of it. The festivities surrounding Mexican Independence Day definitely look different here just because local politicians are even encouraging people to be more careful of just sort of like the events that we're having, larger gatherings. I think that's still very much a concern of immigration, ice raids happening or immigration officials showing up.

49:07Griselda Flores:So yeah, I mean, it's definitely scarier when you're a local event where you don't have that, you know, backup of a major company. You don't know if you could survive something like this. Even Henry Cardenas from CMN, he said, if we were a smaller business and we just lost$2 million, that's it. Like, we probably couldn't recover from anything like that. Did you ever fear getting into this reporting? This is our job. We have to tell the story, especially if it's impacting a business as big as Latin music. So I knew that I had to do it. Scared just because it involves such a vulnerable community that you don't want to expose.

49:54Griselda Flores:You don't want to make them even more a center of a conversation ever, right? Because of what they're going through, because of that fear that they're going to. I have to be really careful about the type of questions that I ask, right? Presenting the right information, not, you know, causing more fear than there already is. Yeah, you don't want to fear monger and make it worse. Yeah, that was a real concern. I was talking to our editors. Dan, I was calling him a bunch, our news director, my boss. I even went back to some of my professors who are media ethics, and I was asking them, like, am I doing the right thing?

50:38Griselda Flores:Can you guide me? Just because it's so sensitive. And again, I was getting that pushback from the industry. initially. So I just wanted to make sure that I was doing it the right way. That's wonderful to be able to lean on some of like these people who have been part of your past and taught you how to be a journalist in the first place and being able to go back to them. Yeah. I mean, on a lighter topic, what else are you working on these days? I mean, beyond, I'm sure this takes up a lot of your time, but obviously, like we were saying before, you did the cover on Grupo Firme and you've done a lot of our covers on Latin stars.

51:11So are you doing anything on the artist side that you're excited about right now?

51:14Griselda Flores:I've focused a lot on regional Mexican artists. Actually, most of the covers that I've done have featured regional Mexican artists, which is exciting. Right now, we're really focused on our biggest event of the year, which is Latin Music Week that's happening in Miami in October. And it's such a huge event because we have, it's a week-long event in Miami. We have panels, workshops, our Billboard Latin Music Awards take place. So it's just sort of like, you know, community coming together, industry coming together. And it really is like the biggest, at least it feels to us like the biggest Latin event.

51:53Griselda, thank you so much for joining us. But before you go, I do want to ask you the questions that I ask everyone who comes on On The Record. This is a segment that I like to call Make Me A Playlist. And we actually do have this playlist on Spotify for anyone who is curious. I will update every single time that we have an episode come out with everyone's answers and also the podcast episode. So check that out on the Billboard Spotify. But I want to hear yours. So you have to pick three songs for us in three different categories. So the first category is a song that you can no longer gatekeep.

52:26Griselda Flores:It's not an old song and it's, you know, I think people know about it. But there's this Puerto Rican artist. His name is Tommy Torres. And Bad Bunny produced an EP for him. And I don't think it got the recognition that it should have gotten. I mean, we wrote about it. I interviewed both because it was kind of like the first time that Bad Bunny was producing an entire project. Yeah, I didn't know that you produced. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. So the EP is called El Playlist de Anoche. It's amazing. It's like alt rock, which is super different for Bad Bunny as well. But there's this one song called Marea.

53:06Griselda Flores:And I think people really need to listen to it. Again, I think the whole project just sort of went under the radar and it didn't get the recognition. But that song is one of my favorites on it. That's a great pick. What's a favorite throwback for you? One of my favorite throwbacks is by Ariel Camacho. He's a regional. All of my songs will be Spanish songs, Kristen, because that's what I report on. Yeah. So this is a regional Mexican artist who passed away, unfortunately, 10 years ago, but he inspired Peso Pluma, all the new generation artists he's he inspired. The song is called Te Metiste and it's a cierreño, very guitar driven song that I love to listen to.

53:56Griselda Flores:It's a romantic song and it's definitely has that Ariel Camacho essence. So I want people to to know more about him just because he is a huge icon in música mexicana. And last but not least, a guilty pleasure. I guess just listening to the same songs that I always listen to. I should be discovering new artists and trying to listen to, you know, new artists and new songs. But my guilty pleasure is just going back to those artists that soundtrack, you know, my childhood. and a lot of it is from like the 1980s and 1990s. And that's, you know, that's something that makes me feel good. And it takes me back to a place and a moment in my life that I love.

54:42Griselda Flores:So my guilty pleasure is just listening to old songs over and over again, which I shouldn't do. Well, I love that. Is there any artist in particular that people should check out? Vicente Fernandez. My dad used to listen to him all the time. And, you know, I think he, for me, takes me back to like my dad. Right. And he represents a lot of that of my family. So Vicente Fernandez, huge artist, Mexican music artist. Love it. Love it. Well, thank you so much, Griselda, for coming by. We really appreciate it. And see you soon. Thank you, Kristen. All right, y 'all. That was Billboard's senior Latin editor, Griselda Flores.

55:22We're very grateful that she was able to join us here today on On the Record. And before we sign off, let's check out what's going on on the Billboard Hot 100 chart for the week of September 27th.

55:56Your Idol by Saja Boys falls to sixth.

56:01Another Saja Boys hit, Soda Pop, sticks to number five. Tate McRae and Morgan Wallen's duet, What I Want, rises to four. And the top three songs are still sticking around from last week. So that means Man Child by Sabrina Carpenter stays at number three. Ordinary by Alex Warren is number two. And finally, Golden by Huntrix from the K-pop Demon Hunter soundtrack is number one again this week for a sixth week. Thanks so much for tuning in to On The Record. Again, I'm your host, Kristen Robinson. And if you enjoyed today's show, please follow, like, subscribe, rate, all those good things. They really help a new show like ours to reach new fans.

56:49And we also have an Instagram, at Billboard On The Record, if you want to stay up to date on all things On The Record. That's all I have for you today. So tune in next week. We have a very special interview coming up with a top major label CEO. See you then.