Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - October 24th, 2025

26:39But it's going to go beyond that. There was a line in this framework agreement that actually said that the U.S. and Australia will work with other international partners on price support mechanisms. So this conversation is likely to extend beyond these two countries to the G7 later this year to think about how do we scale these partnerships up even more. So really what we're starting to see is an economy of scale that we're creating for the minerals and the processing capabilities. I mentioned that Alcoa deal earlier. That Alcoa deal is also getting Japanese financing. It's actually a tripartite effort.

27:14So an example of how this bilateral is going to set the stage for what's probably going to be a much bigger play of countries to counter China. How do we figure out, you know, especially as we see investors, you know, pushing up shares on all of these stories about the relationships, the investments by the U.S. government and various critical mineral companies. How do we figure out which is investor speculation, you know, kind of chasing a trade? Do you think it's misplaced or is it a bit irrationally exuberant? Or you think these investments, these relationships, this is the build out. It's happening.

27:52And with good reason, because the demand is going to be there. The broader build out of the sector when it comes to mining being much more strategic is absolutely here to stay. And it's here to stay for a couple of reasons. One of them is we are diversifying away from China. Right. Right. But the second thing we have to remember is that certain of these commodities, I need a lot more in objective terms. I need a lot more copper to electrify, to build data centers, to build defense technologies. So it's also the growing demand. So I'd say the larger macro trend in prioritization is here to stay.

28:26And again, remember that the U.S.-Australia relationship, it's a continuation. It was being built under the Biden administration as well. But what, you know, the other thing, though, is, you know, there are going to be fads that come and go when it comes to specific minerals. There's no doubt. Right. Some things are going to hit media attention. Certain deals are going to hit media attention and they're going to fall away. Not everything that this government is looking at is going to succeed. But what we are hoping is that the right number of them succeed to create a more resilient supply chain.

28:56But there are a lot of coming and going. Yeah. Certainly the relationship with Australia is on our radar right now, given the visit of the prime minister. But I'm wondering what other countries the U.S. could ally with that would be able to offer some sort of countermeasure to China and its capabilities. So countries that I'm looking at with interest, Japan and South Korea, particularly because of their midstream and downstream capabilities. I'm looking at the U.K. There have been, you know, there's been some interesting acquisitions there, Leased Common Metals by USA Rare Earths. That's an interesting one.

29:31The EU, again, it's an interesting jurisdiction. There are some minerals, I mean, things like Solvay for their permanent magnets in France, an interesting one, again, with some conversations happening with the U.S. as well. So there's certain pockets of interesting transactions happening from a global north. Obviously, from the global south, Brazil is still a very interesting jurisdiction to us because they have the heavy rare earths that can come back and be separated here in the United States. Everything we need to know. Thank you, thank you. Dr. Gracelyn Baskarin, Director of the Critical Mineral Security Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

30:05This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2 p.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say, Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130. Poll show Democrats are more disillusioned than they've been in decades. Fed up with aging, feckless leaders, frustrated by a party adrift and unsure who their next standard bearer should be, but yearning for someone to take on Trump. So write Josh Green and Eliu Kamasher for Bloomberg Businessweek. California Governor Gavin Newsom has leaped into the breach.

30:44He's armed with a podcast, a ballot measure, and tweets. Gavin Newsom is spoiling for a fight with the president. He is indeed. It is the cover of the new issue of Bloomberg Businessweek out on newsstands, now online and on the Bloomberg Terminal. Bloomberg Businessweek national correspondent Josh Green is the lead author of The Profile of the Governor. Josh is also the author of several books, including the number one New York Times bestseller, Devil's Bargain, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and the Storming of the Presidency. He joins us, Josh, from Washington, D.C. Josh, great to have you here with us.

31:14I mean, Gavin Newsom, he went from one of his lowest political points earlier this year as deadly fires burned in Southern California to now being a potential leader of the Democratic Party. That seems quite a turn. How did this happen? And how dark was it for him? Well, yeah, as you guys said in that nice intro, he was our cover story, our cover profile this week. Went out to Sacramento, spent some time with him, talked to him. For a lot of people nationally, I think outside California, the last time they really keyed in and focused on Governor Newsom was back in January during the wildfires.

31:48Things were out of control. Trump, who was the new president, was sort of insulting him, tweeting negative things about him. And so, you know, he told us that was really the low point, I think, of his governorship. But what's interesting is that over the last couple of months, partly due to some things that Trump has done, Newsom has reemerged on the national stage as perhaps the most important Democrat right now because he is in the middle of leading a ballot initiative that would create as many as five new Democratic House districts. And Democrats nationally are pretty much without power. They don't control the White House.

32:22They don't control either House of Congress. But they're very much hoping to win back the House next November. And so Newsom, by dint of his ability to kind of run the table in California, get this initiative on the ballot, has suddenly become important in preserving Democrats' chance to win back some shred of power to confront Donald Trump with next November. And of course, that would vault Newsom himself into even more prominent role as Democrats look for somebody to lead the party in 2028 and out of the Trump era. Does that proposition have widespread support in California right now? I mean, former Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has spoken out recently against it.

33:01What did you find in your reporting? Yeah, it's not clear that it does. I mean, what's going on, just to kind of clue in viewers, is that Trump and Republicans have been very aggressive about deciding to redraw or try and redraw congressional districts in red states across the country as a way of kind of putting their thumb on the scale in midterm elections in a way that would help Republicans withstand what I think most people expect to be an electoral backlash. So the fear for Democrats is that Republicans essentially rewrite the rules and take control or keep control of the House of Representatives that they think they ought to be able to win.

33:37And so Newsom's value to the party is that he's been able to kind of come in and I think offset if this ballot referendum wins. But it's not clear that it's winning by a lot. The latest poll I've seen has it at about 50 percent in favor, about 35, 36 percent opposed, and the rest undecided. So it really could still swing either way. And as you said, there have been prominent Republicans like former Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger who have come out and said, no, we don't want to do this. We don't want to create these Democratic districts. And so we'll see. But I think the expectation among the experts that I've spoken to is that this probably will prevail.

34:13And if it does, Democrats nationally, I think, are going to breathe a big sigh of relief. Josh, we want to dig more into this profile piece of Gavin Newsom. But I just want to, on this referendum, this ballot referendum, how important is it to Newsom specifically? How important is it to really Democrats more broadly as we all are kind of looking at the upcoming midterms and what it means and what it says about President Trump's administration? It's a great question. The answer is that it's really important to both of them. I just explained on kind of the national Democratic side why it's important.

34:44But for Newsom himself, I think it's especially important because, you know, he is somebody who has long been thought to have presidential ambitions. Democrats are obviously looking for a new leader in 2028. But talking to people around Washington, around the country in Democratic circles, there could be literally dozens of people running. And so if this ballot referendum does pass, it will be a real validating credential for Newsom. He's one of the rare Democrats right now who is in a position of power. And if he's able to lead his party to victory on this ballot initiative and help Democrats win back the House of Representatives in 2026, he can go out and say, look, I'm out here.

35:25I'm fighting Trump. I'm doing things. I'm helping the Democratic Party. And that's just not something that a lot of other elected Democrats can say right now. And I do think it's going to lead to a lot of excitement and a lot of national attention. And Newsom himself, as I mentioned, as we mentioned at some length in the profile, has spent a lot of time trying to raise his profile online, doing everything from YouTube to Twitch to Twitter to X to try and raise his visibility. So I think a win on this ballot initiative would really help him in that regard. I always think about COVID and how much he became so prominent.

35:55And we covered certainly everything he did during COVID and what was going on in the state. But he really became a national figure, it felt like. Especially during that visit to the French Laundry, as Josh points out in his piece. What did he call that in his podcast, Josh? He quoted in the piece? I think he said it was like his most boneheaded move he made as governor. And not a lot of people would disagree with that. But, you know, he is prone to the occasional scandal. So that's part of the excitement of following Governor Gavin Newsom. Does a lot of exciting things, both for good and for bad.

36:23So let's talk about that a little bit. As a Californian, I followed Gavin Newsom for decades at this point. I mean, one thing that just always surprises me, though, is is where he was and who he was with early on in his political life. I mean, there's the famous photo shoot. Was it Annie Leibovitz with Kimberly Guilfoyle, his former wife, who is now, you know, she was linked to one of the Trump sons romantically. She's now the ambassador to Greece. What is his political history? You dive in here. There's connections to the Getty family. You really go really far back generations, actually. Yeah, I mean, he's had this fascinating life.

37:00You know, his father and grandfather were kind of big-time political fixers in San Francisco, which gave him entree into the kind of wealthy world of San Francisco politics and business, while at the same time, you know, his mom, after his parents' divorce, was a single mom who worked three jobs. So he kind of really grew up with a foot in both worlds. I think he's always been drawn to the camera as a politician. As you said, there was a famous Vanity Fair cover shoot back when he was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle. He managed to be a very high-profile mayor of San Francisco, conducting or allowing gay marriages back before the Supreme Court had allowed that, first got him on the national stage.

37:35But he's also a good-looking, telegenic guy who really wants to have his profile out there and has a lot of political talent. I think that the challenge for Newsom as governor of California, and we get into this in the piece a little bit, is that there's a lot not to like about California right now. At a time when, you know, Americans are more and more concerned with inflation and the high cost of living. California has sky high home prices. It sort of struggles with a lot of the things that Americans struggle with generally, whether it's high gas prices, high unemployment, homelessness. So all of these things are subjects that Newsom and Businessweek spoke about, talked about and tried to kind of war game out on the piece, whether this is something that he can overcome.

38:18And as Newsom himself said, too, he's got a real pitch, I think, for Democrats nationally, which is that California is this engine of dynamism, whether it's tech or AI or business, and really conducts itself in a way that I think Newsom would describe as the polar opposite of the way Donald Trump runs the U.S. economy with a focus on kind of industrial nostalgia. and looking back, Newsom is very much a California guy, almost seems like a venture capitalist at times, kind of pitching his state. And I think it's going to be interesting to see whether Democratic voters connect with that and decide this is the guy that they want leading them forward.

38:53Josh, do Democratic voters also connect with the way he's begun using social media, kind of playing President Trump at his own game with AI generated content and caps and so on and so forth? You single this out, certainly in the story. Does that resonate? Is that what Democrats That's why. To me, this is the most interesting part of the profile is, you know, a couple of months ago, Newsom turned the governor's Twitter feed into this kind of mockery of Donald Trump and the way he comports himself on social media with these all caps tweets kind of mocking and insulting him and, you know, AI generated images of Trump eating McDonald's burgers, kind of stuffing his face.

39:30And it was basically kind of meant to get down in the mud with Trump. and it's something that's caused a ton of attention, a ton of engagement. A lot of Democratic voters are seeing this and engaging with this online. I know in my own life, people, relatives of mine who are not particularly political, would have no reason to be interested in Gavin Newsom or suddenly asking me about him because of his wild social media persona. So in an intention-getting sense, I think it's helped him. Whether or not this helps him win votes in purple swing states three years from now, I'm still a little bit skeptical about that.

40:06But, you know, partly the race right now, if you're a Democrat, is the race for eyeballs and attention. And there's no question that Newsom is doing that kind of more aggressively and in a more interesting way than any other Democrat on the scene right now. Is it a risk politically for the constituents in California? Karen Bass, the mayor of Los Angeles, spoke at Bloomberg Screen Time earlier this month, and she talked about collaborating with President Trump in the wake of the disastrous wildfires. If there is another big natural disaster in California before Gavin Newsom's term is up, does he have to go begging to President Trump?

40:38And President Trump says, no, you've made a mockery of me. Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I mean, one of the things we talked about with Newsom in this piece is that he essentially, you know, Trump had kind of written him off back in January before he'd even taken office. had kind of turned on Newsom. And Newsom had said, you know, in the past, they'd had a good working relationship back in the 2018 Paradise fires in California. He thought Trump had been pretty helpful. But this time around, he wasn't. And Newsom had to kind of force his way to Trump's sphere and orbit in order to get some of the help that California needed.

41:09I think it does run a risk when you kind of intentionally mock and insult someone, especially as a Democratic governor. If you need to then turn around and ask that president for help, it could be problematic. On the other hand, Trump as president has pursued a scorched earth policy against just about every Democrat, every blue state and every blue city that I can think of, regardless of whether or not the mayors and governors of those states have insulted him personally and gratuitously the way Governor Newsom has. I'm not sure in the end it'll make much of a difference, but it'll certainly be something to watch if there is another big national disaster in California that requires federal help.

41:45Fascinating stuff. I wish we had another 15, 20 minutes. It's Josh with you. That's always the case. Josh Green, national correspondent, Bloomberg Businessweek. This is the cover story of the issue, new issue at Bloomberg Businessweek. Find it on newsstands. It is on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg.com. His profile, so much detail. Love it.

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44:48Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A., member FDIC. Let's talk about healthcare for a second. It doesn't always work the way people expect it to. If you've ever waited on a prescription refill or had a hard time getting the care you needed, you know the feeling. The system should just work better for everyone. That's exactly what the people at Optum are trying to do every day. They're a healthcare company linking patient care and pharmacy services and using data and technology to drive the whole system so care is connected, not complicated, for patients and providers.

45:21Things like making it easier to get care that looks at the whole person, from primary care doctors to mental health support and even in-home care, and then using technology to make sure they all work together. Technology designed to help doctors spend less time on busy work and more time with their patients. And those prescriptions? Optum is working to bring costs down, save patients money, and make it easier to get refills. Little by little, Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Head to business.optum.com to see how. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast.

45:57Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Or watch us live on YouTube. Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including a computing breakthrough from Google when it comes to quantum computing. including we check in with the mayor of Chattanooga, Tennessee, who is looking to make his mark in that space. Plus Xanax in your ears and all in one face fixer. Maybe some ketamine therapy. Those are just some cheat codes on maybe how to improve your overall wellness. It's courtesy of our Bloomberg Pursuits team.

46:34I'm just going to stick to getting lots of sleep and drinking lots of water. I think there's OK, just to throw it out there. There's also like the walking uphill treadmill one that I love. No, but makes sense. Love it. Yeah, exactly. Just a little preview of what's to come. All right. Love it. Love it. All right. First up this hour, addressing the future of work and how robots play into that. The New York Times reported this past week that Amazon executives believe the company is on the cusp of its next big workplace shift, and that is replacing more than half a million jobs with robots. So the question, will the future of work include robots or is it all hype?

47:11I mean, it already kind of includes robots, right? How do you know I'm not one? I don't know. I did see you plug yourself in the other day. Sometimes I feel like that. It's neither here nor there. We'll hear with more on what Amazon is up to is Ty Brady, chief technologist at Amazon Robotics. Ty joined us from Amazon's Delivering the Future 2025 event out in California. We are at our fourth Delivering the Future event here. And there's a bunch of press that we have here. And we made a couple of big announcements in robotics. The first is in our manipulation robot that we call BlueJ. And what BlueJ, the way that you can think of that is you can take three assembly lines and put it in the same footprint of one.

47:54What it does is help eliminate the menial, the mundane, and the repetitive. And it can pick more than 75 % of the inventory that we actually sell in our sortable network, which is a really big deal. I'm really proud of that. And I'll also say there's just something interesting about BlueJay as well as compared to our other bird manipulation systems, Cardinal, Sparrow, and Robin. It took us about three years to kind of design, deploy, and get out to our frontline employees. We have actually done BlueJay with the power of AI in just over a year. So it's really had to accelerate the pace of innovation.

48:27I think what a lot of people think about Amazon and robots, I just want to jump in because we don't have a ton of time, but we'll get to some of the other announcements. They think about the Kiva systems robots, the big acquisition at the time, you know, 2012, that was a big acquisition for Amazon. And they've seen pictures of the way that those can move large loads of things across warehouses. But if you were to go into a state of the art Amazon warehouse today, what would you see that's in addition to those Kiva robots? Yeah, in addition to the world's first goods-to-person fulfillment strategy, which was just a really good idea where we have more than a million robots that we manufacture actually in Massachusetts doing that job every day, you're going to see more of the unstructured fields, right?

49:09So you're going to see a green robot that we call Proteus that can move big cargoes of packages to the right dock at the right time. You're going to see many more manipulation systems that we have in there, eliminating kind of the repetitive motions that we have. No one wants to lift a 50-pound box all day. Robin does that. Cardinal does that, moving it into some of these Proteus-bound carts that we have. you're going to see much more collaborative robotics, right? So that's where we build our robotic systems to enable people to augment what people are capable of. And we really believe in the philosophy of people and machines working together.

49:52How can we build a tool set that enables our employees to do their job not only more efficiently, but also with better safety in mind? All right. So there's this robot arm called Blue Jay. You just talked about it. You know, you guys are using this AI agent called Eluna. And then you're also working with augmented reality glasses to be worn by drivers and delivery trucks in the field. There's like so much going on. Step back for a moment because you guys have a lot of data. You look at what you're doing. I'm just curious, investors who are thinking about Amazon and what you are doing, how do they think about the long-term ROI, return on investment, when it comes to the investments you guys make in robots?

50:32Is the goal about labor efficiency, throughput speed, or is it margin expansion kind of tie across your fulfillment operations? What is it? Yeah, well, definitely efficiency. We think about efficiencies and how can we gain efficiency through all the chain of our fulfillment processes for sure. And you mentioned data. And data is the fuel for AI systems. Data has allowed us to bring, think of the body of being our robotics, but bring the mind to robotics, allowing it to be more adaptable, more fluid. You can almost think of this as the ability to pour our robotic systems into any size building, any scale of building to amplify what our employees are already doing.

51:17We want to give them an amazing tool set. And we see that when we do that, we're more productive, right? When you do robotics right, when you do collaborative robotics where you need both people and machines doing what they do best and they do different things better, it allows you to be more productive. And when you're more productive, that allows you to invest more in people. We've upskilled more than 700 ,000 of our employees, which is a great stat. And also in our robotics. We've expanded from the Kiva days. We've expanded from just a movement solution to now movement and mobility and sortation and storage and perception systems, packing systems that have really changed the game for our customers.

51:54That's a big deal to us. But, Ty, you know, well, you need less workers. And I got to bring it up. You know, the Times had a story out. they talked about interviews and a cache of internal strategy documents that they saw that it reveals that your execs think that the company's on the cusp of its next big workplace shift. I'm reading from the Times and replacing more than half a million jobs with robots. So, you know, we know things change. I'm not in a horse and buggy anymore. I don't make things piecemeal. I get it. I don't get tons of faxes and I don't get tons of pieces of physical mail. Thank God.

52:31Things change. Having said that, is Amazon, do you guys believe that you're on the cusp of a workplace shift and that you won't need as many workers because the advancements in robotics? Well, there's no doubt that things change. I mean, and we're actually really proud of that at Amazon is that we avoid stasis at all costs. We change and we adapt. And the nature of tasks definitely changes. There's no doubt about that. We are laser focused on efficiencies inside of our buildings. But when it comes to that article, that article was speculating 10 years out, right? That's a 10-year speculation. And it's hard to say what's going to happen in the next 10 years.

53:12But I can tell you what happened in the last 10 years. The last 10 years, which is when we seriously invested in robotics, that we created hundreds of thousands of new jobs and new job types. And there's been no employer in the United States that has employed more people than Amazon in 10 years. I mean, that's the power of efficiencies and building your robots in a way that's applied and real that actually augments the human potential. All right. My brother's saying I'm like a dog with a bone. So wait. So does that mean 10 years out it could be less jobs or we just don't know or you don't think that's the case?

53:50Well, you have to think about, I mean, there's jobs and there's tasks, right? So, of course, we're changing the nature of tasks. Like, I'm very bullish on eliminating every menial, mundane, and repetitive job out there. Nobody wants to do that. So, we're going to change those tasks 100%. But we can, again, as history has shown, we continue to create jobs, right? With the goal of two things. Can you have it all? Can you be more productive, which means more efficiency? And can you also create a safer environment for our employees? And we're actually doing both. That's what history has shown in the last 10 years.

54:23We have better than 30 % reduction in our overall recordable injury rate over the last five years because of our robotics. And also much more efficient. For example, our latest generation fulfillment center in Shreveport is 25 % more efficient. You can have it all. But you have to build your robotics in the right way that empowers people. We're speaking with Ty Brady, chief technologist at Amazon Robotics. When we think about hiring for these one-off or seasonal events like the holiday season or Amazon Prime Day, I'm wondering how you're putting pencil to paper right now and thinking about those numbers and to what extent automation has reduced Amazon's dependency on seasonal or hourly labor for holidays, for Prime Day.

55:09What does that look like or what will that look like this year or next year? Well, it's the same philosophy of empowering employees, whether they're temporary or they're full-time employees, with the world's best machines that help them do their job. It's the same philosophy. I'm really proud of the fact that this year we're going to offer more than 250 ,000 temporary jobs for our employees to come in during the holiday season. Those are good paying jobs. I'm really happy about that. Really pleased with that. And I'm really pleased with the work that our women and men have done in the robotics field, designing and pioneering these new physical AI systems that help them do their jobs better.

55:43I got to say one thing that I've been thinking a lot about is what's going on overseas, whether it's China, whether it's Japan. Bloomberg has done some reporting about service industries in Japan because they have a labor shortage that they are leaning increasingly on robotics. Have you been over there and looking at what they're doing? And I'm just curious if you're seeing some things that are pretty impressive and that the U.S. as a creator of things or its role in the robotics industry has to keep a watch on what's going on in other countries. Yeah, I think it's easy, especially in robotics, to get distracted about what other people are doing.

56:23I think anybody can make a YouTube video. I think anybody can kind of pop in and overflate something. But if you come into our world, our world is all about application. So final thoughts is that robotics, when done the right way, when you reframe your relationship with machines, you can enable more productivity, create greater efficiencies, and create a more safer environment for employees. And this collaborative mindset that we've had, that we've done for the last 10 years, really does make the day. Ty Brady over at Amazon. So appreciate it. This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast.

57:00Listen live each weekday starting at 2 p.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say, Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130. Some news this past week in the world of quantum computing. Google ran an algorithm on its Willow quantum computing chip that can be repeated on similar platforms and outperform classical supercomputers. A breakthrough it said clears a path for useful applications of quantum technology within five years. The folks in Chattanooga, Tennessee, have been thinking about quantum computing for years.

57:36The first commercially available quantum network in the U.S. was established there. That was back in 2022. We should also note that last year, Bloomberg Philanthropies named Chattanooga one of 25 cities selected for its American Sustainable Cities program. Bloomberg Philanthropies is founded and supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, the founder and majority owner of Bloomberg LP. Now, Chattanooga Sustainable Cities program is still ongoing, and so we wanted an update on their quantum network. Back with us was Tim Kelly, mayor of Chattanooga, Tennessee. Also, Janet Rayburg, president and CEO-elect of EPB, formerly known as the Electric Power Board of Chattanooga.

58:14That company, it provides energy, internet, phone, and more in and around Chattanooga. The environment today, how is it in terms of running your city, being a mayor in a political environment that's a tough one, an economic environment that may be tough? Yeah, it's tough. But, you know, running cities is an eminently practical exercise. And I will say, you know, our mayor's races are nonpartisan. They always have been. And I stayed in that lane. Again, I mean, I'm not here to catalog my political beliefs. They're pretty confusing to most people anyway. I'd say, you know, Republicans think I'm a Democrat and Democrats think I'm a Republican.

58:51I'm probably doing a pretty good job. So, you know, I look that has served me well in this environment, because, again, I believe, as does a lot of folks at Bloomberg, as do rather, but that cities are really the foundation of our economy. That's where 90 percent of the GDP is generated. It's where all innovation is generated. So I'm focused on whatever is best for Chattanooga. So I can work and have managed to work with people on both sides of the aisle and, you know, in the best interest of my city. Do you find yourself getting pulled into the social issues that seem to define our era right now?

59:24The stuff that does dominate cable news, whether you're talking about the right or the left? Yeah. I mean, I find myself, you know, I find people attempting to pull me into those, but I think I've gotten pretty good at wrestling my way out of them and trying to just translate back into simple terms. You know, is this what's best for the city? You know, does it work or does it not work? I mean, sometimes you can't avoid those polemical issues. It's not as though, you know, I don't have my own beliefs. But again, I think you just, as a mayor, have to take a thoroughly practical approach to what's going to work best for the city.

59:59All right. So when you think about what's best for the city, let's talk about that. Because you are on the ground talking to people, what they need, what you need to make sure you have a good economy, strong economy, not just today, but in the future. That quantum computing bet, you made it back in 2022. Tell us about, kind of give us an update or for someone who didn't hear the conversation when you were last on with this, kind of where you guys are with this. So I'll give you the cliff notes version, which is that, you know, we took advantage of a large federal low interest loan way back when during Clinton and Gore to put in a giant municipal fiber network.

1:00:34And that gave us the first and fastest municipal fiber network in the country. We had a lot of folks move in during COVID because, you know, you can get one gig of symmetrical speed for 67 bucks a month. Yeah. Pretty great. You can get 25 gigs of speed at your house in Chattanooga. But it turns out that you can also do quantum computing on large loops of dark fiber. One particular type that uses photons and trapped ions, which is where IonQ began to become interested in Chattanooga. So we opened, and Janet can talk more about it, the first commercially available quantum network. and it is starting to attract a lot of investment and attention.

1:01:09So Janet, come on in here, because one thing that we're trying to understand is what the practical applications of quantum technology are. We spoke with Ed Ludlow, the co-host of our Bloomberg Tech program a little earlier, and Carol agreed. I mean, you thought healthcare first, he said healthcare also. This is one area of application, but it's still kind of the world where we're thinking about what this tech can do, not necessarily seeing what it can do. Have we seen any material things be developed as a result of this technology and what you're doing in Chattanooga. Yeah, so INQ has been working on a lot of different type of application with different industry.

1:01:41And so we were interested because we're an electric company. And so we have all the data for them to help us optimize our grid. So we're doing a partnership actually with INQ, NVIDIA and Oak Ridge National Lab as a four-way partnership to help do use hybrid computing until quantum computing can, you know, get to where it needs to be to help us with some grid optimization problem that we can't solve today. In terms of energy demands, tell us about that. That is like what you are seeing front and center. We, you know, the AI conversation narrative has moved from the spend and chips and so on and so forth, like to basically, all right, do we have enough power to do all of this?

1:02:15And there is certainly a power scramble among the big hyperscalers. What are you seeing on that front? Yeah. And I think that's a nationwide, you know, issue with the energy problem. And as AI gets better. It is an energy problem, right? Yeah. I mean, as AI gets better and better, the more energy that it's going to need. And so that's where quantum comes in very important to the part of that solution is that quantum computer, once it gets to the phase that it needs to be, is it can solve things at a much faster rate, which uses less energy than a classical computer because it can do things in parallel versus sequential as a classical computer today.

1:02:50Where do you get the energy that you sell to people in and around Chattanooga? Yeah. So we buy it from TVA, Tennessee Valley Authority. And so they generate the power and we distribute it to our customers. How do they generate it? They have a diverse mix of portfolio from hydro, different types of renewables to natural gas. And so, you know, they're continuing to look at other options. Do you see that mix? Go ahead. No, I was just going to say they're also very much on the front foot in terms of advanced nuclear. Do you do you see that mix? This is either. Do you see that mix changing and focusing less on renewables, more on nuclear as a result of the changes out of Washington?

1:03:26I think you're going to see that, you know, and again, regardless of your political affiliation, if you just kind of look at the math, there's no way around nuclear, right? I do think they are giving us or EPB more latitude to generate some of our own power because of the anticipated demands. And I think we still have a lot of headway on solar. So, I mean, I think we'll continue and we've got a lot of things we can do with hydro. We're going to actually start using biogas at our wastewater treatment plant to generate electricity. So we're looking at any and all ways that we can generate. Because my understanding when we talk about SMRs, the small modular reactors, it's 10, 15 years.

1:04:03Will Wade reminds us, who covers this here at Bloomberg News, that we are not there right now. It's a while. We are not. But we have a pretty significant nuclear footprint with TVA already in the Tennessee Valley. Well, what would you tell people who are still kind of nervous when it comes to the nuclear footprint that you guys have? You know what you know. I do know. Fine. People do it. Okay, do it across the country or do it in another country. but you know the feeling here in the United States. I mean, I grew up next to a nuclear power plant. You did. I'm fine, right? I'm a little weird. I'm a little weird.

1:04:30A little weird. What would you say about that? Well, I mean, the technology has come a long, long way. Yeah. That's what I would say. I mean, I'd say go do your research, do your homework. They're not, I mean, that's why we have these discussions. That's why we have the fears. But there's just not, absent fusion, I will say, the state and the University of Tennessee is also working very, very hard on fusion technology. Absent that breakthrough, there's really not a way around it. That's what I'm waiting for. I mean, when we talk, we're talking about quantum today and we're talking about Google, we're talking about Silicon Valley.

1:04:59How do you get people to think about Chattanooga, Tennessee and not Silicon Valley, not New York City, not Austin, Texas, when they're thinking about where they want to live to have a job in technology? Coming on Bloomberg is a great first step. No, we I mean, look, we talk about this all the time. It's a it's a midsize southern city with kind of a funny name. And there's a bit of cognitive dissonance there. So, you know, look, we are out telling the story. I mean, I was just in Detroit last week at a sustainable mobility conference. We were at the Quantum World Congress. I mean, at some point, it's, you know, the evidence is mounting.

1:05:32We are, it's not just smoke. We are doing the work and it's working. Is it, is it, if you build it, they will come mentality? I think so. Have they come? Yes, they have come. I mean, again, we had, you know, we now have independent verification that, you know, 10, 12 ,000 people moved to Chattanooga during the pandemic. Very, you know, degreed, talented people that could work remotely. And I think, again, our job, my job as mayor is to help break that glass ceiling so that we have the level of business investment and, again, can build up our academic horsepower to be able to sustain those knowledge economy jobs.

1:06:05Janet, you know, when we think about quantum computing, we spend so much time just talking about, you know, large language models and generative AI and kind of where that's going, agentic AI. You just talked about the power aspect or the use of less power when it comes to quantum computing. But I mean, should our conversation be shifting in terms of what we are having for an investing audience when we talk just so much about AI generally versus quantum? Well, I think that with quantum computer, when it gets to the level it needs to be, you can team it up with AI and get even more powerful algorithm that comes out of it to be able to solve more complex problems.

1:06:43So I don't think it's one or the other. I think it's going to be a combined of, you know, how do you combine that and use less energy and be able to build algorithm more efficiently? So help me, because when we talk about the data center build-out, so does that go hand-in-hand with the build-out of quantum computing? Is that part of it? So right now it's, you know, we're building a quantum computer to kind of learn more and be able to help accelerate and advance that technology with companies like IonQ. And I think once it gets to where it needs to be, then we can team it up with AI. Okay. Yeah.

1:07:12And many of the implications with quantum. I'm asking basic questions because I feel like we spent so much time talking about the AI, but this is something that increasingly is coming into the dialogue. Yeah. Now, I was just going to say the logistics is a huge vertical in Chattanooga as well. And I think the implications for quantum for logistics have huge implications for lower power demand and a lower carbon footprint, right? Because you're going to waste a lot less time getting stuff from A to B with root optimization. We're going to have to do it because we talk about the power drag or the power demand and the cost.

1:07:43Mayor Kelly, I'd be remiss not to ask you. You are trying to build a city where everyone has an opportunity to thrive and prosper. We talk so much about the K-shaped economy. There's a lot of people who aren't thriving and prospering in this environment. 35 seconds. What's a message to send to everybody? Well, we are working very hard to reform our workforce development system so that we don't leave folks behind. And I think we have some significant opportunities to do that. And we are in the midst of doing that. Again, it's tough out there. And I think it's going to fall more to the state government and to philanthropy, frankly, to kind of take up the slack in the meantime.

1:08:19But, I mean, we have to play the long game. And the long game is we need some significant change to the way that we do education and workforce development in this country so that we don't leave people behind. Yeah, it does feel like in terms of education, we're starting to think about that. Come back soon. I'd love to kind of continue this conversation, if we may. Mayor Tim Kelly of Chattanooga, Tennessee, and Janet Rayburg. She's the president and CEO elect of EPB, joining us right here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio.

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1:12:24Little by little, Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Head to business.optum.com to see how. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Or watch us live on YouTube. Ever felt like being well has turned into another job? From health trackers reporting our every step and snore to pricey longevity clubs and celebrity-endorsed supplements. I gotta say, Tim, sometimes it feels like protecting your overall wellness can be a lot of work and really hard.

1:13:02And also a little expensive? Yeah, ka-ching, ka-ching. Okay, thankfully we can cheat or maybe boosting if that makes us feel better. Yeah, it's boosting. The word cheat, I don't know. Yeah, so harsh. I don't know. Be kind to yourself. It's okay to cheat. There are cheat days. With a list of wellness hacks to try is the Bloomberg Pursuits editor at large, Chris Rauser. It is the Pursuits cover story of the October issue of Business Week magazine. It's available now online on the terminal and on newsstands. Before we get into some of the individual cheats, I already have my favorite. Wait, can we just say, first of all, Chris, you look marvelous.

1:13:35Oh, my gosh. Thank you. You're very welcome. I've been cheating. Now, go ahead. What's your favorite? I just want to talk about the overall tone of this and how it all came together. Because I think, is it because there's a moment happening with wellness or is it because we're all getting older? Oh, I think both. Okay. Both of those things. The reason I wanted to look at it and have us do a package on it was I had a couple injuries earlier this year where I had a foot surgery, you guys remember, and I fractured my elbow and I couldn't work out. And the three of us I know are fitness people. And when you cannot work out, you become mentally unwell.

1:14:11Very true. And so I just and when I finally was able to work out again, you know, I'm in my mid 40s. It's like hard to get back in shape, put muscle on, lose weight, whatever. And I was like, you know, and I really wish I had a little cheat, something where I could like really get back in shape faster. Yeah. And it turns out there is one. There is a stim suit called the catalyst suit, which is basically like one of those as seen on TV ab zappers from the 90s where you put it on your whole body and it electrocutes you while you're working out and it activates more of your muscles. Wait, electrocutes you.

1:14:47Did it hurt? Hurting is not the right word. It feels it's like a buzz. It's a very intense buzz. And it can it can be quite uncomfortable. Not in a not in a painful way, like I said, but no pain, no gain. Yeah, you really got to get used to it. So there's this suit that activates your muscles, like supercharges your workouts, and actually can get you back in shape faster. And so once I started doing that, I was like, well, what other cheats are there? And I got everyone on the team looking for different cheats for wellness, fitness, eating, sleeping, all that. Well, I do want to say, if you want to know more about the stim suit, the Catalyst, Catalyst is the company that owns it.

1:15:26Brendan Kennedy is the CEO of the company that owns the stim suit that Chris is talking about. We had an extended conversation with him and Chris a few weeks ago. You can check it out on our podcast feed to learn more. Little spoiler, Chris says it actually works. I know. It works. I doubt. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about some of these other tricks. Some of them involve needles. That's true. Some of them involve treadmills. I want to start with my favorite. It's old school. It's walking uphill. Oh, yeah. Because, you know, we think about cheats. This one doesn't even seem like a cheat to me because this is like keeps you in shape.

1:16:00This is what you do. But apparently you can do this three or four days a week and you're not gonna feel the effects of like having gone on a run or something. Yeah, so a lot of these cheats are things where you still have to put in work. So like with the stim suit, the catalyst suit, you have to exercise, but just to exercise while you're getting electrocuted so it works better. And walking uphill is an old school thing that like celebrity trainers tell people to do because it burns calories a lot, but it also doesn't wear you out. So if you're doing, if you need to save your energy for big lifts because you're trying to become like a marvel superhero uh you don't want to be running a lot and that also burn that also like gets in the way of building muscle whereas walking uphill is great it's not too strenuous but that's like really the best way to burn fat i love that i also like the soul renewal i feel like you know when i think about massages i'm like you're gonna do my feet right so yeah but this is so easy like pt if you do pt they often say roll your foot on a ball yeah this is just rolling your foot on a ball not only does it make your feet feel better which actually makes your whole your whole walking around feel better but it actually can uh calm you down it can it's actually something that can sort of soothe your mind tim i think we should get a collection of balls for our team okay yeah you think that'll work the calm you down you think it'll do anything if not we could just throw them it's true the idea of this package was there's so much information being thrown at us like you guys said earlier where there's like a million manosphere podcasts talking about about sleep, about eating, about when you eat, about just every little supplement you should take.

1:17:25And there's so many supplements. And, you know, Business Week has covered Brian Johnson, the never die guy who wants to have the sort of metabolism of an 18 year old and has like used his son's platelets injected into him. Like it gets really crazy and it gets really expensive. And so we were looking for things that are just easy that you can do that actually make a difference. That alone to me, just men getting so involved. Like women, we kind of have always been obsessive about this stuff. But men really getting into it and thinking about it. Yes, because it's very quantified. It's very, it becomes a hobby.

1:17:56Yeah. It's competitive. Yeah, it just has really like been attractive to men for a while, for the past few years. Got another one that you like? Well, I teased that we were talking a little bit about needles and the peptides thing kind of got my attention. Because in endurance athletics, this is getting attention right now too, along with like boosting testosterone, stuff that in the past has been sort of dubious in terms of like competitive rules and what has been allowed in terms of anti-doping. What's up with peptides? So peptides are basically long strings of amino acids that tell your cells what to do and how to behave.

1:18:33And so for like testosterone, for example, you know, you used to get testosterone injected, just like straight up testosterone. Now people are injecting things like cell morelin, which tells your body to make testosterone, which actually is, which is better because if you, if your body gets used to getting testosterone injected, it won't make it on its own. So, you know, there's, there's peptides that will do everything for make your skin more tan, you know, make you sleep better, all this stuff. And then we go via nozempic. Those are peptides. Which I did not realize that. I didn't know that until I read this.

1:19:03Yeah. That was kind of eyeopening for me. So yeah. So there's a lot of kind of off-label, on-label things that are going around. And the Doctors caution that when you're getting this from like an internet company that, you know, has doctors, you still really don't necessarily know what you're getting if you're ordering this stuff online, especially if you're ordering it in an even more sketchy way. So if you want to get into this stuff, definitely talk to a doctor who knows you and that you work with. What does the FDA say about all this? I mean, obviously with Wegovy and the GLP-1s, they're regulated, but I'm just curious.

1:19:36Yeah, because of changes in rules that happened during COVID, basically, where people can deliver this kind of stuff online, the regulation is a lot less, it's just like a lot less tight. I always think about peptides, I think, because it's a lot of like cosmetic stuff has peptides, right? Yeah. Yeah. So this is maybe like just injecting. What? Speaking of tight, how do we tighten up that face? I didn't know you could do these massages or these sculpts that actually make your face look different. And I thought this was like, I thought we all had to go. What's who's the who's the Kardashian who got the amazing.

1:20:11Oh, the deep plane facial. Yeah. Chris. Yeah. Chris Jenner. OK, that is not a big cheat. That's not a little cheat. OK, because that's expensive. That's like face off from John Travolta. What we're talking about is a fashion facial, which is when you go in and somebody basically massages the face, your face. And the fascia is the is the lining of your muscles. and they can kind of rearrange how your face is. And, you know, if you have a big event or like your wedding or something, you can go in and for a couple of days, you'll look snatched. Come on, now I'm going to watch, I'm going to be looking over at Tim and he's going to be like doing these weird things to his face.

1:20:47Apparently they also like can put on gloves and massage your, inside your mouth. Yeah, that's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And that can also help with like, if you have pain with TMJ and stuff like that. Okay. All right. Well, listen, sometimes an old thing is actually good. Maybe not, you don't feel that way about your body and your face, but when it comes to worn barber jackets. Oh, yeah. So this is, it's fall. Fall was late to arrive in New York City, but it finally came and it's cool. And that means it's barber coat season, which is all the finance bros and gals and my mom throw on their barber coats.

1:21:22Chris, guilty as charged. Their barber coats. And, you know, I always remind my friends every fall that you can get your barber coat re-waxed. So a barber coat is a waxed cotton, mostly waterproof jacket that people used to wear for hunting in the UK. Prince Charles is always wearing one. Or King Charles, rather. So you can get it re-waxed so that it will last longer. And people own these coats for decades because you can keep re-upping the waxing and they last. And then the longer that you've had it, the better it looks. It's worn in. It's got this great patina. So I started looking at other companies that sort of offer those services so that your clothes can age and look cool and old.

1:22:01Yeah. Well, speaking of that, you talk about how increasingly Gen Z is looking for stuff that is aged and well worn. This idea that it's been loved in the past. And Barbara is actually getting in on that by buying back old coats and fixing them up and reselling them. Yeah. So if your coat has gotten too worn and you don't want it anymore, I really want to start over. they'll buy it back for you and give you a store credit and what and they'll deconstruct the coat and they'll reuse it for other coats and so now they sell they have a whole reloved program where they'll sell coats that are kind of patched up mixed and match coats sometimes they have the tartan pattern on the outside they can look really funky and they sell them at a lower price because they're you know sort of recycled items upcycled items and gen z really likes that and they find that they get a lot of younger shoppers coming in together but i was surprised that you say the prices start at like$325.

1:22:52So they're not like, they're not cheap. They're not cheap. Like even the recycled. I have to say, um, but that's what like a Patagonia cost. I mean, that's what a jacket. No, exactly. Exactly. But I see that in a younger generation. I see with my daughter, like she likes to go, whether it's consignment or like stuff that's been already a little bit around the block and a little bit of wear and tear on some things are sometimes really nice. Well, you think about resale sites, which are huge. And for a long time, it was like, I got to find things that are in mint condition on the real, real. Like I want this bag that It looks like no one used it.

1:23:19And it's changing a bit. And now it's like, oh, I want to find something that looks like it's been loved and it's been worn. Because we always want our jeans to look kind of beat up. But if you get jeans from a store that are like pre-beat up, it looks really fake. It looks like a factory. Someone went and scratched the lines in the lap. But if you go to Levi's, they buy back jeans and then they resell old jeans. And what's better than a beat up pair of Levi's? And Gen Z's and younger people are really into that. And really good for the environment as well. And that's part of it. they're very into sustainability.

1:23:50Didn't you just buy a recycled, not recycled, an old watch and you actually said, I love this, as we wrap up here. One of my favorite watches is this old Gerard Perigo triple calendar, which is a very old-fashioned kind of watch and the day and the date are so tiny it's hard to read. But it looks great and I got it fixed up because parts of it weren't working and they were like, okay, do you want us to polish it and make it new and replace the gold here and I was like, no, do not polish it. I want it exactly as it was. I just want it to work. And that's a thing in watches now. People want it. They don't want things polished.

1:24:25They don't want things updated. They want it to be exactly as it was. Let the record show Chris is wearing not one but two watches right now. He's got the analog on his left wrist and the Apple Watch digital on his right wrist. He just wants to be balanced. That's what it's all about. Love these cheats. Love you, Chris. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Bloomberg Pursuits editor at large, Chris Rauser. And that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much for joining us. Be sure to tune in to Bloomberg Business Week daily Monday through Friday, starting at 2 p.m.

1:24:54Wall Street time on Bloomberg TV, Bloomberg Radio, and on Sirius XM channel 121. You can listen to us on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. It is free in the Apple App Store or on Google Play. You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Podcasts. And we're simulcast on Bloomberg Originals, available at Bloomberg.com slash originals and streaming platforms like Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Samsung TV Plus, and more. Find our Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast at Bloomberg.com, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. The latest edition of the magazine available on newsstands now at Bloomberg.com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

1:25:29I'm Carol Masser. And I'm Tim Stenevek. Have a good and safe weekend, everyone. This is the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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