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22:47And basically, Massey got pissed off that the local county where he started building his house was gonna get zoned and we're gonna put in these new rules, started showing up at town zoning meetings and really developed kind of a local cult following that became known as Thomas's angry mob. Eventually, he ran for a local office. The mob backed him. He was very popular. About 12 years ago, congressional seat came open. Massey was one of seven or eight Republicans that ran. He won. And he's kind of been the same character he is today ever since he got to Washington. And oftentimes that meant he was the single vote against some otherwise popular issue.

23:26And that's made him kind of intermittently very unpopular with Republicans, with Democrats. But he really is true to his ideals kind of no matter what the cost. And what's so interesting to me about him, the reason we chose now to profile him in Business Week is that I think his race on May 19th is also going to be a measure of Trump's political strength. Ordinarily, Trump can squash any Republican he doesn't like and put them out of a job. We've seen it time and time and time and time again. But Massey is a popular guy, too, at his home district. So if he is able to hold on and prevail, despite this onslaught from Donald Trump and all of these hedge fund-backed super PACs that are coming after Massey, I think that's going to tell us a lot about Trump's weakening hold on the party.

24:09And I think it also might open up room for new voices like Massey's who don't necessarily want to do everything Trump wants to do or at least want to stick to the original MAGA vision and not go off crusading in Iran, you know, buying public having the federal government buy public companies, as Trump has talked about and that sort of thing.

24:28Carol Massar:I'm so glad you went there because, you know, you write in your story, ultimately, though, it's also a measure of Trump and his personal power, how Massey does. If Massey loses, Josh, should we read that as a barometer that President Trump actually has still a lot of strength here when it comes to the voting public and MAGA in particular? Yeah, I think it should. Certainly, or at least within the confines of the Republican primary electorate. Absolutely. I mean, Trump, you know, his poll numbers are kind of plummeting broadly. A new AP poll has been at 33 percent, which is the low, I think, of either one of his presidencies.

25:06There's been some erosion among Republican supporters. But, you know, people who consider themselves MAGA, people who voted for Trump in 2024 still tell pollsters that they overwhelmingly support Trump. So it's certainly possible that Massey will lose. And if he does, I think that will send a chill into other Republicans who lately have been a little more willing to stand up to the president than they have. There was a FISA vote that he lost a couple of weeks ago. We saw his U.S. District Attorney, Janine Powell, backing down today from this persecution of Fed Chairman Jerome Powell. So Republicans are starting to push back.

25:43I think if Massey loses, that might cause them to kind of tap the brakes. But on the other hand, if he wins and if he wins comfortably, I think in mass, he thinks it's going to encourage more Republicans to kind of stand out and look out for their own electoral interests rather than just kind of knee jerk following whatever it is that Trump wakes up and decides. I do hear what you're saying, but I think someone, Josh, could push back and use Marjorie Taylor Greene, for example, as somebody who didn't succeed in pushing back. And look, she decided not to run, but she faced a lot of criticisms and she still does for speaking out against the president.

26:13You mentioned the idea of potential other sort of mini Thomas Masseys waiting in the wings right now. Who are some of those names? You know, some of the names like I would I mean, I could point to people like Don Bacon. Republicans are known not to be happy about Trump and who have announced their retirement, therefore have less political risk that they face in standing up to him. Another one would be like a Tom Tillis who has held up Kevin Warsh's nomination in the Senate. that anybody who doesn't have to turn around and face Republican voters again this year, next year. I mean, one of the interesting things and one of the things that I'm watching on that front are we are right now in the middle of Republican primary season.

26:54We've got Kentucky's coming up. We've got Texas is coming up. Once you get past that Republican primary season, I think it becomes a lot easier for Republicans to say no to Donald Trump because they won't have to face Republican voters in a primary again for another two years. Right now, however, folks like Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene, very limited group that are willing to kind of step out on that ledge and do it. And as you point out, it basically cost Marjorie Taylor Greene her job. She jumped before she was pushed. Massey is a fascinating case because he's taking the other path. He's going to go ahead and run for reelection anyway and try to win.

27:32Carol Massar:So interesting. You know, Josh, one of the things I wonder, you know, you've obviously followed elections politics for a long time. You wrote about, you know, President Trump getting to the White House in the first place, that first term go around. When you look at this year, unusual to say the least, Venezuela, this war between the U.S. and Iran ongoing. We'll see what happens, certainly this weekend or into the next week or so. But does it look like a president that is thinking about, obviously in a second term, thinking about his party and the upcoming midterms? Or is it safe to say that midterms are still far enough off that a lot can change before then?

28:12You know, I think the way Trump thinks about his party is that they are there to support him in anything he does. And just because he ran for president originally, promising that he would bring down prices, not get entangled in foreign wars, get the government out of the private sector just because he's turned around and done the opposite on all those things. I think he expects folks to go along with him in the Republican Party. Many of them have grudgingly. But there are folks like Massey speaking up and saying, hey, you know, I signed up for what you campaigned on, not what you're doing now.

28:45And Massey anyway, isn't going to sit by quietly while Trump flip flops and changes his position, even if a lot of other Republicans do. And so we'll see. Is that is that a viable position for an elected Republican to take in the Trump era in Washington? It hasn't been for a long time, but it might be now. We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

29:04Carol Massar:Hey, Josh, when it comes to Massey, and it's something we talk about a lot with everything going on, you know, every week we're, you know, touching on Epstein still. How much of the pushback and we've talked about this a lot, whether it's podcasters and so on and so forth, it's because of President Trump's reluctance for so long to release more and more of the Epstein files. How much of that plays into Massey's position? I think a lot of it plays into Massey's position. I mean, he is an interesting and kind of a weird guy, very interested in kind of conspiracy theories, that sort of thing. It kind of floods into his libertarian beliefs a little bit.

29:38But from Massey's standpoint, if you're looking at the Epstein files, here is this vast, overarching conspiracy of elites and government and business leaders. And we know there was all kinds of wrongdoing going on. And the president of the United States and his attorney general promised to release all this stuff, and they didn't. And so I think it sort of triggers something in Massey that makes him want to kind of keep pushing on this. And look, the fact is, Trump ran on saying he would release these files. He hasn't. He's now pushed out Pam Bondi, his first attorney general, over her unhappiness, over his unhappiness with her performance around these issues.

30:13And it's something that really has gained a lot of steam, not only with Massey and Republicans, but as you said, with a broader kind of manosphere podcasting universe doesn't seem to be going away no matter what Trump does. And so that's one of, I would say, several political issues that are really bogging Trump down, sinking his approval ratings, and making it easier for internal critics like Massey to kind of emerge, to get their voices out, and try and build a more powerful beachhead in the party to start steering it back in the direction that they'd like it to go.

30:44Carol Massar:Real quickly, as we say, we're living in unusual times. 25 seconds, President Trump's gonna be at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. Why? And just quickly, why do you think he's gonna actually show up this year? I don't know. I don't think it's gonna be love fest, it's probably going to be to harangue the press. I myself am not going. I get plenty of haranguing right here in my own home for my kids and my wife. So I'm going to be watching it on TV. But yeah, it's going to be interesting to see. I'm sure Trump's not going to be very happy. All right. Well, we're happy that you could join us as always.

31:17Carol Massar:Josh Green, Bloomberg Businessweek National Correspondent with us from D.C. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

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33:55PayPal Open. Grow today at paypalopen.com. Loan subject to approval in available locations. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Or watch us live on YouTube. We got to keep going with Intel here. Shares are up more than 20 % right now, reaching an intraday all-time high. The SOX surging, reaching an all-time high. It helps that Intel, AMD, Armholdings, Rambis, and Qualcomm have all been up double digits today. On Intel, shares hitting their highest level after the company delivered a sales forecast that shattered Wall Street expectations.

34:36For more, we are joined by Ian King. He's Bloomberg News, U.S. Semiconductor reporter. He joins us from San Francisco. And in the Intel story, for so long, for so long, you've been writing about this company's turnaround. For so long, you've been joining our program over several different executives talking about this company's turnaround. Is this a moment where it's clear that the company has turned around? I think this is a moment where it is showing signs of making progress. Clearly, the forecast is very good and there's affirmation of what's going on in the market in general. But as its management said, look, we've still got work to do here.

35:14I think with time, the CEO summed it up best with one of his final comments, which is like, look, a year ago, people were talking about whether we could survive or not. Now we're talking about can we get enough supply?

35:25Carol Massar:So wait. Yeah, I think that's remarkable. Talk about a whipsaw. I mean, so what happened? I mean, this is something we were talking a lot in after the earnings results. Was it because the U.S. government took a position? Is it because it got, you know, partnerships, deals where money came back into the company and let Liputan focus on just running the company, not be so worried about maybe financial. Like what happened in this past year that feels like this company and certainly the narrative around it and certainly the share price around it has really turned around? Well, there are a number of tasks that he faced when he came into this position a year ago.

36:02So the first one was the balance sheet. The company had too much debt, couldn't afford to do what it wanted to do, and it was struggling. The deals that you mentioned have kind of fixed that. They're in a much better position there. So that's task one, sort of largely completed. Task two is to get the execution, to get the trains running on time again. You know, we're still working on that, right? Some areas are going better than others. And task three was like find a role in AI. They still haven't found a direct competitive product to what NVIDIA is doing. But guess what? What they're actually good at, what they make has become kind of cool again.

36:41It's become important in AI. So they're benefiting from that. It's not a profitable company at this point, Ian, which is pretty remarkable. Our Markets Live blog pointing out a piece coming from Sebastian Boyd that talks about posting a net loss in the quarter, CapEx of$3.6 billion, exceeding its$1.1 billion cash from operations, which itself, Sebastian writes, wasn't especially impressive. He writes, the most remarkable thing is that it still isn't a profitable company. Investors looking past that. I mean, there've been a lot of companies that haven't reported profits that have done well in financial markets for a period of time.

37:19How do you see this? Yeah, I mean, it's not remarkable that it's not a profitable company. That's old news, right? That's the way the market are looking at this. That has been the case for a while, right? So we're in theory at this turning point. What has changed is its fundamental demand for the products that it provides. This CPU, this general purpose chip has been kind of on the sidelines in this AI buildup. Now we're being told actually it's got a bigger role to play. Jensen Wang, Nvidia said that, AMD have said that, ARM have said that, and all of these stocks are up today because guess what?

37:54We're getting affirmation. So that's what's new. That's what people are buying into. But Ian, I think maybe people haven't been following this story as long as you have might say, wait a second, a company that's worth almost half a trillion dollars, it's a$405 billion market cap right now. It's at its highest ever and it's not currently profitable. That's right. I mean, we're buying on the promise, right? We're buying on the future. And we've seen a huge rotation recently into this type of company, into this type of product. But investors are clearly betting that this is going to be a profitable future for Intel and also for a number of companies.

38:31So that's going on. So Intel's got to deliver again. I mean, it delivered this quarter. It showed, hey, things are getting better, showed promise. But as you said, I mean, the foundry business, that's its factories are still losing an enormous amount of money on an operating level. And to be fair to the management, back to what they said, they said, yeah, we've got work to do. We need big customers. We don't have them yet when we got them. and they want to talk about it, we'll be able to tell you. But right now, we don't have them. So, yes, it's definitely not all the way fixed.

39:01Carol Massar:So in terms of chips, you mentioned earlier that they still don't have a direct competitor to NVIDIA and the type of AI accelerator, right, that's made NVIDIA, you know, just the king in the chip industry. Do they need, Ian, ultimately to have a product that does go head-to-head with them? They've said they do, and they've tried to have them in the past and not delivered anything that was competitive. And they said they're going to take another run at that. So in their own words, yes, they do. But for now, everybody loves a CPU. Again, this idea that while we've created all of this software and these AI services, we need to run them.

39:38And guess what? Maybe CPUs are kind of good enough to do a lot of the work in terms of providing these answers to our chat, GPT questions or whatever it is we're doing. You want to talk Texas Instruments?

39:52Carol Massar:Can we go there? What was so interesting is when we got ready for earnings Wednesday night, we were thinking, of course, about Tesla. We were thinking about IBM. And we're like, oh, yeah, Texas Instruments. We'll get to that. They just surprised everybody. And that was the stock that just shot up like a rocket. Most since 2000 on that rosy forecast. What do we need to know about Texas Instruments? I got a couple of things there. And I think you went to both of them. On the one hand, we're seeing very, very large stock reactions to these. relatively small amounts of news, right? And you've got to remember TI is a very generalist.

40:28You know, they're talking about the economy in general, and they were positive. They were like, hey, yeah, things are better than we thought, and we hope they're going to get better. But they weren't like ringing the bell of success and, you know, shouting, and they were, you know, we'll see how it goes, we'll measure. But in this environment, investors want to be in these stocks, want to buy these companies, they want to ditch the SaaS software companies, and they want to be in these guys. And guess what? TI gave them a reason to be in TI's stock, and they took it. So Ian, I'm going to put you on the spot, as I always do, with the cyclical nature of this industry that you've covered for such a long time, and ask you where analysts are saying we are in this cycle.

41:08I mean, that's the central debate right now is the argument between, hey, you've never seen anything like this. This is a new way of computing. This is a new way of doing things, And we've got a long way to go against, you know, the old people like me who would say, well, we've kind of seen these things before. And when things get as poppy as they look now, as, you know, the P ratios are as high as they are now, the growth is seemingly unsustainable. Maybe we're reaching a peak. And that's the debate. And who knows?

41:41Carol Massar:Yeah. P.E. ratio. I'm just looking at Intel. 91 forward is about just shy of 87. Ian, great stuff. Always, always. Have a great weekend. Ian King, the amazing Ian King, U.S. Semiconductor Reporter at Bloomberg News. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

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43:53So you can focus on the future. When you need a partner trusted by millions, there's one platform for all business. PayPal Open. Grow today at paypalopen.com. Loan subject to approval in available locations. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Or watch us live on YouTube. Well, our next guest is very familiar to our audience because when she was CEO of Siemens USA, she used to stop by all the time. Now she's CEO of USA Rare Earth. It's the$4.7 billion market cap magnet manufacturing company.

44:32The company this week agreeing to acquire Brazil's Sara Verde Group in a$2.8 billion cash and stock transaction. It marks one of the largest deals in the rare earths industry.

44:41Carol Massar:Yeah, it's a big deal. It's also certainly something that has caught investors. The company overall, the stock is up about 83 % year to date. So delighted to have with us Barbara Humpton. She is CEO of USA Rare Earths. She joins us from our Washington, D.C. studio. Barbara, it is so nice to be talking with you again. And tell us a little bit about this deal and how it changes the game for you. And again, welcome back to Bloomberg Business with Kelly. Carol and Tim, it is wonderful to be back with you. And this time in this brand new role. Yes, USA Rare Earth is becoming the global leader in rare earths.

45:18And this transformative acquisition we've announced is with Sara Verde Group. They are the owners and operators of the only mine outside of Asia that produces all four magnetic rare earths. And they have just announced an agreement as well through a special purpose vehicle backed by the U.S. government and some private investors for a 15 year 100 percent offtake with price floors on all four magnetic rare earths. So we talk about rare earths, and people who are regular audience members of this program, they know 17 elements essential to EVs, wind turbines, military hardware. China still dominates mining, processing, and magnet production.

46:01So does this deal that has these rare earths outside of China, does it change the fact that Western governments are scrambling to support new entrance. This makes us a brilliant partner for those governments who are trying to solve this issue. Yes, for decades now, in 1992, China declared the Mideast has oil, we have rare earth, and they set about building a monopoly. Now they've used that monopoly against us. And listen, we have what it takes in order to develop our own value chain outside of China, from mining to processing, which is, quite frankly, one of the trickiest links in the chain, to metal making and ultimately to magnet making.

46:45USA Rare Earth has been making moves at every link across that chain to make sure that there is a response. We can grow the business outside of China. But more importantly, over time, we can become the global leader.

46:59Carol Massar:Will you go deeper, Barbara? Because I feel like we're all learning about this. It wasn't something we were talking about a lot two years ago, but we are certainly over the past year. You mentioned the processing. That is one of the trickier links in the chain. You mentioned China still dominates when it comes to processing. Is it realistic to think that the U.S. can catch up ever to China when it comes to processing? And how tricky is it going to be to undo that link or make that link connected and make it work here in the U.S.? And how long? This is a matter of investment. And yes, indeed, we already have geologists, metallurgists, chemists who have successfully demonstrated separation technologies.

47:41You see, when ore or a clay comes out of the ground, it has those rare earth elements in it. Those have to be separated from the rest of the ore body. And the processes to do that sometimes involve solvents, sometimes they involve ionic exchange, very well understood chemical processes and it's a matter of building the facilities that will make them for the next two years we are going to be on the search for who can move the fastest and in fact USA rare earth just invested in Carister a firm in the south of France very capable of heavy rare earth processing they're bringing their processing online by the end of this year we ourselves in our proposal to the Department of Commerce chips program office, we've included processing as a key element of our own operations.

48:30And in order to first process our own ore body at Round Top in Sierra Blanca, Texas, but also to take third party mixed rare earth concentrate like that, which may come out of Cerro Verde. You mentioned Carister. So I want to get more into the acquisitions or investments. So the acquisitions that you've done in a short time, less common metals last year, that 12 and a half percent stake in Karastor, now Sara Verde. Are you going to stay in your lane of NDFEB, which I learned today, is neodymium iron boron permanent magnets, which is your core. That's your primary product. Are you going to stay in that lane or are these acquisitions representing you guys expanding a little bit?

49:10Today, we're focused on NDFEB. Yes, indeed. A certain type of magnet. We're all learning. And you've heard that they're used in everything from semiconductors to our defense articles, frankly, even into the everyday electronics that we use. They are in everything in our economy. And our focus is going to be to assure that industrial players have access to the supplies they need in case of disruption. Think of in these early days, supplying insurance quantities to make sure that in case of disruption, people can drive through. But over time, we'll be able to pick up production. Now, there are also magnets that are made with samarium cobalt.

49:51That's another form that has many uses. And we've partnered with folks like Arnold Magnetics in order to make sure that we can, first of all, serve their needs with metal from our metal making operations, but then also combine our NDFEB magnets with theirs for those customers who need access to both.

50:11Carol Massar:Barbara, are you guys done with deals for a while? Or are you anticipating that there's going to be more that you need to do to kind of build this up? I mean, this is a big deal in terms of what the United States needs to do. Lots of money, lots of actions, lots of activity. So is there more acquisitions from you guys to come? Yeah, Carol, you should think about this as a platform for growth. This is a platform for growth. This market space outside of China has been fragmented all this time. There's a lot of friction in the system. Great opportunities for companies who have complementary capabilities to come together.

50:46Now, with the acquisition of Sara Verde, we've also brought on Sir Mick Davis and Thras Maritis. Both of them will be on our board. Thras will join me as president of USA Rare Earth. And you may know them as the power duo who put together Extrata, grew it from$500 million to$65 billion. In this market space, they recognized years ago that the rare earth space was ripe for exactly the kind of business approach that they are so adept at handling. And I look forward to working with both of them on our overarching strategy. Hey, Barbara, we have a couple minutes left. There's a lot we want to get to, including some news today.

51:25But before we get there, USA Rare Earth received$1.6 billion in proposed funding from the U.S. Department of Commerce in January. It's conditional on certain things. Should investors expect more support from the U.S. government? What you'll see is that together with Sara Verde, we're supported and working with the Department of Commerce, the Department of War, Department of Energy. We have relationships all across. Sara Verde announced an acquisition, not an acquisition, an investment by DFC. So, you know, clearly there is great government interest in the work that we're doing. And we are happy to see investments that are accelerating our progress across the board.

52:04Look for us to be involved in additional engagements with the U.S. government and our allies where we can help scale or accelerate growth.

52:14Carol Massar:So I would say that that's a yes more money coming or maybe. We are absolutely engaged with all of those who have funds applied to critical minerals. You mentioned the U.S. and our allies, and that's where I want to go. What do you think about the agreement, Barbara, that was signed today between the U.S. and EU to coordinate on critical minerals when it comes to price floors, offtake agreements, and more? Well, think about the power of this. China has been engaging in practices that artificially drove prices in their favor. Anytime they wanted to, they could drop prices, flood the market, and frankly, run businesses out of the marketplace.

52:53And so by agreeing to price floors, we're sending long-term signals that say there is a market. We want to grow it. It is worthy of investment. Have courage. Drive through this. Because what we have to do is, yes, enhance the price floors, make sure that we have a stable business perspective going forward. As we grow, as we scale, then market dynamics will absolutely take over our time. And I'm thrilled that the EU has stepped forward to join us in the effort. Well, to follow up on Carol's question there, how should the U.S. and European nations handle price floors? How should that work? We've been sending our input to the U.S.

53:34trade representative and others who are working on policies. You know, we feel that it's really important that if we can agree that we as collaborative countries are going to join together and agree not to buy those Chinese products that often have been artificially skewed price-wise. There's clearly government buying that will take place. And we're in support of the government mandates that are coming along for government contractors. But what's even more important these days is that the buyers of large scale material like ours are looking for non-China sources and are recognizing the power of their buying habits.

54:17I call it industrial patriotism, recognizing that the actions they take will strengthen the market.

54:23Carol Massar:Barbara, really quickly, 30 seconds. Have you been looped in on any of the conversations between the Europeans and Americans? I mean, given that you guys now own assets in Europe and the U.S.? Yeah. USA Rare Earth colleagues are often invited into conversations, and we're more than happy to share our expertise, join in the conversation, and help people understand the economic situation we're in and think of potential solutions. We've got to use every tool in the tool belt right now. Real quickly, upbeat conversations, stressful conversations, because there's a reason. Upbeat. Upbeat. I've been so encouraged by how helpful everyone wants to be.

55:02Carol Massar:Well, listen, you were super helpful in coming on, explaining the deal, where you guys are, where it's all going. Come back anytime. Really appreciate it. Barbara Humpton. She's the CEO of USA Rare Earth. This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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