HSBC's Oden on Private Markets, Women and Wealth

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2:30Racquel Oden:Well, alternative asset managers have been snapping up insurers in recent years, gaining access to a stable source of long-term capital to fuel their investments. Apollo, we know, pioneered the model with its insurance arm, Athene, investing in financial products, Tim, created by its asset management division. Recently, though, the close ties between private equity and insurers have drawn scrutiny as the latter had traditionally put their money in the most liquid parts of the market, such as high-grade bonds and stocks. The recent blowups of auto parts from First Brands Group and subprime auto lender Tricolor Holdings have exacerbated fears about credit losses across the financial industry.

3:06Racquel Oden:Yeah, this is a worry. And it really fits into, I feel like, the broader conversation we've been having about private markets, credit. It's a lot going on. So we just wanted to throw that out because that's a story that is certainly on the Bloomberg today. And we want to talk about it a little bit with our next guest. Let's get to our weekly segment, Women, Money, and Power. We explore all the economic implications of how women are poised to control more money than ever before as the biggest beneficiaries of the great wealth transfer. So with more on all of that, we welcome Raquel Oden. She is head of international wealth and private banking at HSBC, joining us in studio.

3:38Racquel Oden:And we wanted to do that because part of wealth, when we talk to wealth managers, private bankers, is that we know investors, clients, consumers of yours, they're interested in certainly the private markets. And it's a big part sometimes of their portfolios, or they want it to be a part of their portfolios. And we're going to talk about your report on the giving shift in just a moment. The credit concerns or private credit markets, private market worries. What are you hearing from your clients about that? What is the discussion you guys are all having with your team? Yeah. So I think, as you said, this is one, it starts with diversification.

4:14Right. So it's not the primary part of the portfolio, but there's clearly a need and there's an interest for a sleeve of your portfolio to be part of this.

4:21Racquel Oden:How much is like usually in a client's portfolio that you work with? And I know everybody does it a little bit different. I was going to say, it depends. But what's the range typically? I think on this, you're talking like 10%, 5 % of the portfolio. These are things you're going to look at. And by the way, this is if it makes sense for the client, if they have interest in it. I think as you think about the private equity markets, you think about AI, you think about, well, the Fed make cuts. These are all the interesting questions we get from our clients today, specifically of how do I respond to that and make sure that I'm still focused on my long term goals with all of these different aspects happening, as well as the regulation with all of this, too.

4:58What is this going to look like and how do we manage these private equity markets? That's something that is certainly also being looked at. But in that 10 percent slice, you know, it's not 10 percent private credit. It's there's some venture capital in there. There's some private equity in there. I mean, some people may ask for exposure to crypto in that alternative. So I don't know. Is that kind of how you see it? Like a very small portion of it, the typical portfolio would be private credit? Private credit, but at the same time, exposure to crypto is something you have to decide if that's specific to you.

5:29I can't say that's something that big banks are getting behind. But again, it comes down to the individual, what they're looking for, and how do you balance the risks and all this that we're talking about, and also making sure this isn't becoming your primary way of attaining retirement is key to that.

5:45Racquel Oden:Yeah, because it's just been interesting. You know, we are trying and talking to smart voices like yourself and just trying to get an idea of what people are hearing, thinking, saying, because we know that Jimmy Diamond made the comment about more cockroaches out there. We've been looking at there have been some trouble, certainly in some of the subprime auto lending area. And we had the Apollo CEO, Mark Rowan, speaking as part of a presentation on the firm's retirement services business. And he rejected the idea that private assets introduce risk to retirement and insurance portfolios. He said, quote, people have really just lost their minds and the headlines get more and more historical and have almost nothing to do with the substance.

6:24Racquel Oden:Having said that, one last question, then we want to get to your report. The big key thing you said is your risk tolerance, right? So it is a basic factor of how much risk are you willing to take on? And I think to your point of what you're hearing there is whether it's crypto and you've heard from other industry leaders, like I said, this should not be your retirement plan, right? This is where you have the ability to take risk, but it's not needed for your livelihood or everyday living. Well, so your client base, like I'm assuming, you know, these are folks with high net wealth. And I just wondering, are they clamoring to do more and more in private markets?

7:00Racquel Oden:Do they want to see this open up more or are they pretty comfortable or they're like, you know what, We see the concerns. We're a little concerned too. All of the above. Okay. Check, check, check. Check, check, check. No, genuinely all of the above. But still, there should be some level of openness to the exposure to it. And I think that's the part you are seeing from this client base. Now, I always think about this, and Tim and I talk about it. Men and women are different. And I always think about risk tolerance. But talk to us, you know, you've got a report out, the giving shift, global living, local giving, how affluent women are defining wealth and philanthropy close to home.

7:33Racquel Oden:Talk to us a little bit about this report. And I am always curious how it differs maybe perhaps from what men might do. Yeah. So I think it's between men, women, and the generations, which I think is great about the report. And so we surveyed over 1 ,000 affluent clients and really from the standpoint of what matters to them most. And I think there's three key factors that came out of this. The first one being 60 % of affluent women said giving financially is extremely important or very important to them. So if you think about that as a factor in itself, so you just talked about the transfer of wealth going to women.

8:06They're saying it's a top priority for them to give financial wealth, which I think is a very different factor between men and women. That's the first one. What does that mean? So what they're basically saying is as I create my wealth, I want to make sure that I can give financially to giving charity. Philanthropy is 60 % of a priority to me. So it's a very high number. So it wasn't like I want more accumulation wealth. I want to make sure that I have the ability to give financially or give away my wealth in some shape, form, or fashion. And so what you've seen from the big billionaires that are out there, historically it has been, they want to give a big check with a big name and put their name on a building or into the theater.

8:49What's different here is what you're seeing in women and their giving. It really is they want to give close to home. They want to give to local charities or local things that they can see immediate impact, less about having their name on a building. How much about the giving is giving while living versus promising assets or promising money in a will? That's a good question. It's both, right? So giving while living. So as they're accumulating their wealth, they're focused on how can I give while I'm living? But more importantly, how do I make sure my wealth lives on? So their passing on is just as important to them critically.

9:21Now, giving while living tells you at different stages of where they are, whether you're a Gen Z versus a obviously baby boomer, there's a big difference in where your psyche is and what you're focused on. What's important about that, though, is we also have to figure out the confidence of women on their investing and their wealth, knowing that if it's a priority for them to give philanthropically, they want to make sure they're able to accumulate wealth. What we did see in the report that was very dramatically different is when you take a look at women and investing in their confidence, because we do know that's a huge factor in a lot of this.

9:55When it came to Gen Z's, 61 % confidence. If you look at baby boomers, they're closer than the 40%. There's a very dramatic difference between the generations of their confidence in wealth. And then we did it based on race, and we saw a dramatic difference there as well. African-American women came in at 69 % feeling confidence that they would be able to attain their wealth. Hispanic women were 60%. White women were 47%. Interesting. Very interesting. So the attaining of wealth or the confidence that they can attain their wealth looked very different for African-American and Hispanic women. But generationally, Gen Zs have the most confidence in the standpoint that they feel good about their wealth and what they can do in markets.

10:39Racquel Oden:I love that people continue to do research and find out more and more and understand, especially because there's more wealth coming into the hands of women. Raquel Oden, she is head of international wealth and private banking at HSBC. Thank you so much. Thank you for also talking about the news of the day.

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