Judge Rejects Subpoenas of Fed Board in Powell Case

14:54Tim Stenovec:You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Or watch us live on YouTube.

15:07Jerome Powell:Yeah, let's talk to today's tread. I want to bring in Mike Collins, PGM Fixed Income Managing Director and Executive Portfolio Advisor. Joining us from Sarasota, Florida,$1.5 trillion in assets under management for the company overall. Fixed income, about$1 billion. Mike, something has shifted when it comes to the credit sell-off. In recent weeks, there have been identifiable drivers. What are you seeing in a fixed income market? Are people more risk-averse right now? Yeah, absolutely, right? Right. This big spike we've seen in oil associated with the conflict in Iran is definitely keeping, you know, giving people pause with regard to the overall economic backdrop.

15:49Jerome Powell:Right. I mean, you're seeing the front end, as you've been talking about with Mike McKee, elevate over the last two weeks. It's really remarkable, Tim. Right. I mean, since February 28th, as Mike said, a lot of things have changed. The front end has taken out two full Fed rate cuts off the market in two weeks. Right. It's really a remarkable change. And that alone, I think, puts pressure on financial assets, on financial conditions, on top of the oil prices you were talking about. Gas prices at the pump will hurt people's pocketbooks. We did an analysis this morning. If oil goes from 100 to 200, you know, that cuts GDP a lot.

16:28Jerome Powell:That means a lot of people, instead of spending 5 % of their discretionary income on gasoline, it doubles to 10, right? And that really puts a halt on consumer discretionary spending. And on top of that, you've had all these idiosyncratic credit problems emanating mostly from the leveraged loan market or the private debt markets. And that's giving people worrisome ideas of maybe we're getting late stages in this credit cycle. And obviously, you've seen the parallels, at least in the press, to 2008, which I really dismiss. And we can talk about that.

17:02Carol Massar:So let's go right there. B of A's Michael Hartnett is actually out, Mike Collins, and talking about the spike in oil prices, also about the growing concerns around private credit, which we talk about, as you know, every day here at Bloomberg. And he is saying that they're causing kind of market activity to resemble the lead up to the global financial crisis. Do you agree? And he's not alone, as you know, Jamie.

17:25Jerome Powell:I don't. I think what happens is when you get later in a cycle, in a strong bull market cycle, right? We've had a raging bull market in almost all financial assets over the last handful of years, obviously with that temporary dip during COVID. But really, it's been in kind of an extended cycle here. Whenever you have that type of expansion and equity multiples skyrocketing, you know, you kind of get this culture of greed. And everybody wants to hit the next home run. And that's when you start seeing evidence of fraud, evidence of really aggressive financing, evidence of some re-leveraging and weaker underwriting, right?

18:10Jerome Powell:So we're seeing all of that happen. And it typically happens in the area that are getting the most inflows, the most demand for assets. And that just happens to have been in the murky, you know, private credit type of markets where there's a lot less transparency, a lot less pricing regularities. And so you're seeing that. And to me, that's just a very natural, you know, phase of the cycle. But man, the private markets, Carol, are tiny compared to, you know, the mortgage market, for example, in 2007. It's like a tenth of the size of that, right? And the banks are not levered at all going into this.

18:50Jerome Powell:So you don't have that kind of leverage. But they do have exposure, Mike.

18:52Carol Massar:They do have exposure that reminds us that it's not just within kind of firms outside the traditional financial. I see what you're saying. I see you shaking your head. I mean, you say that that's not going to be problematic.

19:04Jerome Powell:You know, they have some exposure. But right, the growth in the private debt markets has really kind of offloaded the banks who used to make those loans, those riskier loans. And after the financial crisis, the regulations really required them to take less risk and not invest in companies that had more than six terms of leverage, for example. So all of that kind of risk went to other places that kind of have a better asset liability mismatch that you don't have a run on the banks necessarily in the private debt markets because you do have the ability to put up these gates and restrict outflows.

19:39Jerome Powell:So I think it's very, very different. But credit spreads are widening, right? They are almost 25 % wider from the tights earlier this year. And that's how we think of credit spreads in our world. Like, how much wider are they on a percentage basis? And that's a lot. I mean, that's a big move. And over the last handful of years, when you've seen that kind of move, it's typically been the area where people kind of step in and buy, right? And you've seen demand in the corporate and high-yield markets, really strong demand at higher yields for our bonds.

20:10Carol Massar:So, Mike, I mean, you're not seeing, in terms of your exposure, the firm's exposure in the private credit world, you're not seeing any kind of signs of stress, any kind of problems, anything?

20:21Jerome Powell:No, no. But I mean, we've been, not to talk our own book, we've been doing private credit for a century, Carol, and we're a very conservative underwriting shop at Prudential at Pigeon. We always have been. We have a large cap private credit strategy. We've looked at over 200 deals last year and we've invested in 25 of them, right? That's how you do private credit. And so, I mean, there are all different flavors of it. And if you look at the funds that are gigantic, these multi-billion dollar funds that bring in all this money, they really have to put that money to work, right? So they have to be a little less discerning.

20:59Jerome Powell:So if private credit, If this is not a concern to you, what is a concern to you in this environment? Is it an inflationary environment because of higher oil prices? Is it a war that drags on? What is it? Yeah, to me, it's the rate side. Higher rates, right? That's a little confusing. I think the credit side is actually in good shape. We just got the results from the fourth quarter of all the corporate earnings. In fact, Morgan Stanley just put out a report this afternoon on they update the credit fundamentals of the investment grade and high yield corporate bond markets. And they have not deteriorated at all.

21:34Jerome Powell:In fact, they even slightly improved on the margin. So the leverage in the public credit markets is really good. And companies are in really good shape. But the rate side is causing some of the problems. Some of the repricings, you see these sudden drops in prices in the private markets. A lot of them are being attributed, yeah, there's some fraud. But just, wow, rates are a lot higher than when we underwrote this deal. And these companies that have a lot of leverage are struggling to refinance their debt at these higher interest rates. So the sustainability of these high rates kind of weighs on credit quality for sure.

22:06Jerome Powell:You see all the leveraged loan companies that issue floating rate debt. They are being hurt by higher rates. And so I'm looking at these higher oil prices. And this morning we actually did a study. We went back and looked at all the big geopolitically induced oil price shocks and what happens to inflation and what happens to the Fed funds rate. after that. And in almost all cases, believe it or not, inflation is actually lower a year later, and the Fed funds rate is lower a year later. So I'm looking at the market's reaction to this war and all they're pricing in right now, all the bond market is pricing in is the inflation side of the equation, not the recession side, right?

22:45Jerome Powell:So I'm looking at this as a buying opportunity.

22:47Carol Massar:Well, and this is some of what Mike talked about too, our Mike McKee about maybe further down the road that there is actually some problems in the economy. Mike, great stuff. Great to check in with you on this Friday. Have a great weekend. Thank you. Mike Collins. He is a PGM fixed income managing director and executive portfolio advisor joining us from Florida.

23:05Jerome Powell:Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

23:12Carol Massar:Support for the show comes from Public. Public is an investing platform that offers access to stocks, options, bonds and crypto. And they've also integrated AI with tools that can assist investors in building customized portfolios. One of these tools is called Generated Assets. It allows you to turn your ideas into investable indexes. So let's say you're interested in something specific like biotech companies with high R &D spend, small cap stocks with improving operating margins, or the S &P 500 minus high debt companies. Chances are there isn't an ETF that fits your exact criteria. But on public, you just type in a prompt and their AI screens thousands of stocks and build a one-of-a-kind index.

23:53Carol Massar:You can even backtest it against the S &P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Go to public.com slash market and earn an uncapped 1 % bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com slash market.

24:19Jerome Powell:All investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures at public.com slash disclosures.

24:25Carol Massar:Being a small business owner isn't just a career, it's a calling. Chase for Business knows how much heart and effort go into building something of your own. That's why they make business growth their priority. The Chase team takes the time to understand your mission, where you are now, and where you want to go. Their broad range of solutions is designed with you in mind, so you can bring your ideas to life. From banking to payment acceptance to credit cards, you can conveniently manage all your business finances all in one place with their digital tools. Looking for tips and advice? Their online resources are always available to give you the solutions you need to help your business thrive.

25:02Carol Massar:See how your business can get stronger and go farther with Chase for Business. Learn more at chase.com slash business. Chase for Business, make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Copyright 2026. JPMorgan Chase and Company.

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26:00Jerome Powell:That's what it means to be 4imprint certain. So, if you're prepping for a last-minute event or jumping on a big opportunity, you don't have to settle or scramble. With 4imprint, fast, reliable service and peace of mind are built right in. Check out their full 24-hour selection at 4imprint.com. 4imprint. For certain.

26:21Tim Stenovec:You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

26:32Carol Massar:or watch us live on YouTube. Well, shares of the ADRs of Keevstar Group rallying today after the Ukrainian largest telecommunications company and mobile network operator did report earnings per share for the fourth quarter that beat the average analyst estimate. Shares are down about 15 % year-to-date, often move, understandably so, Tim, on the headlines concerning the war between Russia and Ukraine.

26:55Jerome Powell:I want to bring in Alexander Komarov, the president and CEO of Keevstar Group, joins us from Keev, Ukraine. Alexander, good to have you on the program. We want to start before we get to the business, just on an update on what you're seeing, what life is like now that this war is in its fifth year. What can you tell us?

27:12James Boasberg:Okay, it's almost normal war during the war. Okay, we adopted a lot. Okay, so I can give you only one example. So during the December, February, 30 % of time, our network was on the alternative sources of energy like batteries and generators. Wow. But at the same time, network was fully operational across the country. So this is, from my perspective, a good reflection of where we are. Yeah, go ahead, Carol.

27:40Carol Massar:How do you do that, though? How do you... Are you constantly repairing and fixing things? Or how do you keep things operational?

27:48James Boasberg:Situation is relatively stable across the territories under Ukrainian control. The only one threat is a shagherd, drones or missile threat that are not so fundamental for the so well distributed infrastructure like telco operator. Of course, we are suffering a lot in the areas that are close to the front line. And we are doing our best in order to restore and recover as soon as possible. and this is very much because of the heroism of our people and preparation and actually certain experience that we were able to gain during these four years in a war. We are doing a lot in order to strengthen our resilience.

28:30James Boasberg:We did a lot of investments into the redundancy. We did a lot of investments, almost 100 million, into the energy resilience. So from our 16 ,000 sites right now, we can run almost 6 ,000 sites on the generators and this number is increasing. On the batteries, we can run network literally for up to 10 hours without energy at all.

28:56Jerome Powell:Alexander, I mean, it's, I don't want it to sound crass how I'm asking this because it's a business question, but that's kind of how you've presented the challenge here. When you run a network in a way that has to be resilient during wartime and you talk about using generators or other sources of backup power, that costs a lot more money and hits the bottom line in a different way than if you didn't have to rely on those resiliency measures. How much more is it costing you?

29:26James Boasberg:Actually, we see a certain decline of our marginalities in the beginning of the war. This is from the position that Kyivstar used to be the best by marginality talco across the globe. With a record high 67 % EBITDA margin, we are right now at the level of 56 % EBITDA margin. The biggest challenge for us is how to, let's say, combine this resilience necessity to be extremely focused on our daily operations with the development. And this is, I think, what we are doing in a really well, I will say, very well organized and a good format. you know, being able to achieve a quite significant diversification of our business from a pure telco in a mobile and fixed market leader in a mobile and fixed business to the digital service provider with a telco license.

30:15James Boasberg:We finished this year with almost 16 % digital revenue that is partially related to the telco, but produced by the services like digital health, entertainment, right hailing, big data.

30:29Jerome Powell:Well, on the cost side, does the new war in Iran and the higher energy prices associated with that hid margins in this current quarter?

30:42James Boasberg:To some extent, we adopted since the beginning of the war. The Ukrainian market was characterized by relatively low energy prices before the war. But because of the shortage, because of the destroyment of the production facilities by the Russians. and necessity to import energy from the neighboring countries. Right now, Ukrainian business is working on the Eastern European and sometimes even Western European tariffs. And from this perspective, I think that we are quite okay. We adopted this growing cost. And we are doing some proactive steps how to hedge this cost in the future. Maybe you saw, but we did our first small investments into the solar power plant.

31:31James Boasberg:And this is the way how we can increase resilience and redundancy of the energy supply. But from another perspective, this is the way how we can hedge electricity cost on the consolidation level of the Kyivstar Group.

31:45Carol Massar:You know, Alexander, that was one of the things I was curious about. Like you mentioned, you're combining resilience with development and, you know, how much you can do of just keeping the company, you know, running day to day and your employees safe and meeting what your customers need amid a war versus thinking about strategy longer term and how you want to, you know, commit funds, CapEx, what have you, to build out the business longer term. It sounds like you're able to do that.

32:16James Boasberg:Yes. Yes. the reality company is performing quite good. We have support of the shareholders. And I can give you probably the best example how we see the combination of the, let's say, growing resilience and redundancy with the development. We were, and we are actually the first European operator to launch direct-to-cell services provided by Starlink. Okay, so we see this at the development because we believe that actually the future is incorporation between terrestrial and non-terrestrial networks. That's why we are doing this proactive step. But at the same time, we provide this service to our customers for free, taking into account the current circumstances and major fundamental humanitarian need to stay online, okay, within very difficult circumstances, sometimes circumstances that are dangerous to your life.

33:12Carol Massar:Yeah. Hey, one of the things I'm curious about when you say Starlink, do you think at some point, like that is what kind of replaces some of the traditional telecom mobile service companies? Is that kind of where things are going?

33:28James Boasberg:I don't think so. I think that the future in cooperation rather than competition, okay, every country is quite unique. It's a difficult regulatory framework. And somehow satellite networks have a fundamental disadvantage. This fundamental disadvantage is open sky, necessity to have open sky when you are using satellite services. So moreover, it's a major issue with capacity, and it will be extremely difficult to service high-density cities like Kiev, New York, London with satellite technologies if the number of customers will increase. But at the same time, we see a number of fundamental use cases where we can use satellite technology in order to expand our geographical coverage, to optimize our investments into the geographical coverage, to ensure emergency communication for every customer, independent from the terrestrial network that is actually under daily attacks from the Russian side.

34:29Jerome Powell:So, in other words, that technology can supplement traditional terrestrial cellular technology, but because it doesn't necessarily have the same coverage indoors or in homes, it won't replace it in your view ever. Yeah. Yes, I think so. So, Alexander, I'm curious about the Ukrainian customer right now and how spending has shifted in recent years as this economy has entered a wartime economy, as different members of the economy have gone off to fight, come back from fighting, gone off to fight again, and that sort of thing. What does your customer base look like specifically in Ukraine right now?

35:11James Boasberg:the biggest issue is demographic crisis and migration crisis that we are facing in ukraine so we have right now according to different sources around 30 32 million ukrainians in ukraine okay and unfortunately it is slowly decreasing because of the war because of the migration as an example we have on a monthly base around two million customers being serviced abroad These are Ukrainian migrants out who are still connected to the Ukraine through key store services with their relatives, with their services in Ukraine, with their state provided services, banking services in Ukraine. Okay, so somehow it's a quite, I would say, difficult situation.

35:57James Boasberg:As a result of the constant air attacks shelling, we see the growing number of double simmers in the country, and every blackout is actually driving people to buy extra SIM card in order to stay online and to ensure a certain redundancy from the potential problems. OK, so somehow it's it's quite specific market that might be normalized after the war. We expect that, you know, share of the Ukrainian migrants will be back. OK, and this will be a huge economic, I will say, trigger for the future recovery.

36:37Carol Massar:Hey, one thing we want to ask you, just have about a minute or so left here, Alexander, is that our understanding is you also serve customers in Ukraine, of course, as we've been talking about, but also the UAE, the United Arab Emirates. Is that right? And if so, what can you tell us about what's going on there and what exposure you and your company and really your employees have?

36:58James Boasberg:As a key star group, we have a very, very, very small exposure as we have a very small office in Dubai. OK, so this is very much driven by substance. And we have just few employees there that are helping us with investment relationship, corporate affairs and reporting. Okay. Okay. So, of course, you know, people's safety is our number one priority. Everyone is in a remote mode. Okay. But somehow we are partially affected even without operations overseas. So, all our operations is concentrated in Ukraine and we have ride hailing business in Uzbekistan. All right.

37:38Carol Massar:We wish you well and look forward to hopefully catching up again with you in the future. Good luck with everything. Olexander Komarov, he's the president and CEO of Kyiv Star Group, joining us from Kyiv, Ukraine on this Friday.

37:51Jerome Powell:Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

37:59Carol Massar:Support for the show comes from Public. Public is an investing platform that offers access to stocks, options, bonds, and crypto. And they've also integrated AI with tools that can assist investors in building customized portfolios. One of these tools is called Generated Assets. It allows you to turn your ideas into investable indexes. So let's say you're interested in something specific like biotech companies with high R &D spend, small cap stocks with improving operating margins, or the S &P 500 minus high debt companies. Chances are there isn't an ETF that fits your exact criteria. But on public, you just type in a prompt and their AI screens thousands of stocks and build a one-of-a-kind index.

38:39Carol Massar:You can even backtest it against the S &P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Go to public.com slash market and earn an uncapped 1 % bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com slash market.

39:11Carol Massar:Being a small business owner isn't just a career. It's a calling. Chase for Business knows how much heart and effort go into building something of your own. That's why they make business growth their priority. The Chase team takes the time to understand your mission, where you are now, and where you want to go. Their broad range of solutions is designed with you in mind so you can bring your ideas to life. From banking to payment acceptance to credit cards, you can conveniently manage all your business finances all in one place with their digital tools. Looking for tips and advice? Their online resources are always available to give you the solutions you need to help your business thrive.

39:49Carol Massar:See how your business can get stronger and go farther with Chase for Business. Learn more at Chase.com slash business. Chase for Business. Make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Copyright 2026. JPMorgan Chase and Company.

40:10Jerome Powell:Deadlines move. Plans change. And sometimes opportunities pop up out of nowhere. When you need branded gear fast, 4imprint is ready to deliver. 4imprint offers hundreds of promotional products in their 24-hour category. Everything from custom apparel, bags, and drinkware to writing tools, trade show staples, and high-tech gear. At 4imprint, they're focused on getting the details right, printing your logo with precision, packing your order with care, and shipping it out fast. And it's backed by their 360-degree guarantee. That's 4imprint's promise your order will show up right on time, just the way you planned it.

40:46Jerome Powell:That's what it means to be 4imprint certain. So, if you're prepping for a last-minute event or jumping on a big opportunity, you don't have to settle or scramble. With 4imprint, fast, reliable service and peace of mind are built right in. Check out their full 24-hour selection at 4imprint.com. 4imprint. 4certain.

41:08Tim Stenovec:You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

41:19Jerome Powell:Or watch us live on YouTube. On the war, today's Bloomberg Big Take is a story featured from Bloomberg Business Week. It highlights an excerpt from the forthcoming book, Project Maven. It shows how the U.S. enlisted Silicon Valley in its vision for AI warfare that's now playing out in Iran. with more as the author of Project Maven, a Marine colonel, his team, and the dawn of AI warfare. Katrina Manson is with us. She's Bloomberg News reporter who covers tech and national security. Once again, congratulations on the book. I mean, the timing of this could not be more perfect, given what we've been talking about over the last few weeks, over the last few months, and the tech advancement that we've seen with AI just in the last few years.

41:57Jerome Powell:I want to get to the book and the history of AI in modern warfare. But first, I want to start with what's happening in Iran and what you've recently been able to find about where AI is being used?

42:08Jeanine Pirro:Very helpfully, CENTCOM has confirmed that they are using a variety of AI tools in their Iran operations. That essentially will mean Maven Smart System. So we've reported that Maven Smart System is being used. If you imagine a digital interface, something like Google Earth for war, you're beginning to get in the right kind of area. It is something that using computer vision AI and more than 150 different data feeds that the US can draw on, tries to whittle down information. And CENTCOM confirmed to us generates points of interest. Now, what's a point of interest? It's everything before a decision to target.

42:52Jeanine Pirro:So it's all the information you might need, elevation, location, who's there, what collateral damage might there be, what weapon can we bring to bear. That point of interest becomes a coordinate that if it becomes a target, they can decide to strike on it. So that's something they're using all the time. And the commander of CENTCOM, most significantly, he's done a couple of video messages that have been out on X and everywhere. In the second one, he also publicly confirmed that they're using AI and that it's helping them speed up processes from what used to take months and days down to seconds.

43:28Carol Massar:Are we alone in having this? Can we assume, Katrina, I know this is not, I'm kind of just bringing this on you. Can we assume everybody around the world is working on these kinds of systems?

43:38Jeanine Pirro:The U.S. is using a platform made by Palantir. This is Maven Smart System. That system is available in other scenarios. So what's public is NATO has it. um alex carp has publicly said allies in the region palantir's founder co-founder yes he's elective alex car has has suggested that allies in the region have it now they won't have the same thing that the u.s has because what makes the u.s system special is the data they can draw on and

44:05Carol Massar:palantir doesn't provide that like with most government things things have been happening for a while project maven given a little bit of give us a little bit of background and history because you've been writing out, reporting. You did another big take a couple of years ago. What is it? And what was the original mission?

44:22Jeanine Pirro:If you imagine in 2017, the US was deep into the counterterrorism wars, which were meant to be winding down, but were still going. This is the GWAT, the Global War on Terror. And the US had been fighting this war against jihadis armed with Kalashnikovs and IEDs, which were wreaking terrible injuries and deaths, of course, on the US military. but they were also beginning to think about the rise of China. China's military budget was going up. The US has still by far the biggest military budget going, but China was spending more and more and they hadn't really thought about how to go up against, if ever the need arised, a big Chinese military that was leaning forward in tech, that was what they then called a near peer adversary that arguably today is a peer adversary.

45:09Jeanine Pirro:And so the leaders in the Pentagon started thinking about autonomy and AI, and they started this project, Project Maven, with a really small-scale, narrow aim, which was to bring AI to bear on drone feed video footage. They were leaving drone feed footage on the cutting room floor. No one was really looking at it. They wanted AI to look at it and tell you what was there, but it was always part of a much bigger effort.

45:34Jerome Powell:Palantir, as you mentioned, is behind Project Maven, but you've spent some time I'm reporting on Anthropic, especially with regard to what's happened in the last few weeks with the Department of Defense and the upcoming lawsuit there. What are the other companies that are involved in this? For computer vision, you go to the ones that we use for everything.

45:55Jeanine Pirro:Microsoft, AWS. there's a much smaller startup company that's become big partly because of Project Maven called Clarify that was a startup doing identification of wedding cakes of a bride's bouquet and they switched thanks to the influence of Project Maven to starting to identify weapons instead.

46:18Jerome Powell:It's a very big pivot.

46:21Jeanine Pirro:It's a very big pivot and it's partly down to the efforts of Project Maven's leaders to reach out to cutting-edge technology companies. This is a company that was doing fantastically well at image recognition, in image recognition competitions, kind of came out of nowhere thanks to the brains of the person leading it, Matt Zeiler, and convinced him. He had no military background at all. He was living in New York to start bringing his technology to bear on difficult U.S. national security problems, knowing that it would be controversial, but believing in the mission.

46:55Carol Massar:You know, one of the things in your book, and I don't know that I have time to do, but you say the department's efforts to build an AI-enabled fleet of drones that can attack by air and sea have been marked by false starts, missed deadlines, strategic incoherence, and officials are already looking past the Middle East to a potentially bigger conflict. As one person familiar with U.S. operation puts it, quote, Iran is an amazing precursor to what could happen with China over Taiwan. Is that the target? Like, how do you, I don't know, how do you process? How should we process?

47:26Jeanine Pirro:So the U.S. has said publicly that they believe China wants the capability to take Taiwan militarily by 2027. So that's become a very tough deadline for the U.S. military to make sure they have the capability to defend Taiwan. Really importantly, the U.S. doesn't say if it will or won't defend Taiwan. That's the policy of strategic ambiguity, they call it. But to defend an island, it's hard to take it militarily if China wanted to take it, but it's also hard to defend. And so for a while now, the U.S. has been developing various ideas that they don't say much about in public, but they give us hints.

48:03Jeanine Pirro:One of those ideas is something called hellscape, which is that the admiral who leads U.S. forces in the Indo-Pacific has said would buy him time. So they would put autonomous weaponry out their drones to stop any Chinese invasion, buy him time for a month. and then bring in the bigger defensive beasts. I have been trying to work out, well, what does that mean? What do those drones look like? And can they operate autonomously? That's important because things can get shot down.

48:31Carol Massar:I just want to know more. And you're going to come back. I know the book is -

48:35Jerome Powell:And we can buy the book too.

48:36Jeanine Pirro:It's out? It's out March 24, but apparently it's already in bookshops.

48:40Carol Massar:Okay, good stuff. You're going to come back. Congratulations. And we want to know more. Katrina Manson, Bloomberg News reporter.

48:46Tim Stenovec:This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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