Trump Says NATO Should Down Russian Jets Breaching Airspace at UN General Assembly

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1:54Carol Massar:The Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. Geopolitics in the world at large, certainly a focal point for us. Makes sense with the U.N. General Assembly underway here in New York City. We did have some comments from President Donald Trump out on his social media platform saying, I think Ukraine, with the support of the European Union, is in a position to fight and win all of Ukraine back in its original form. This is coming after President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky met on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly earlier Tuesday, earlier today.

2:31Carol Massar:Let's see what Michelle Jim Risco has to say. She's Bloomberg White House and national security editor. She's out there in our D.C. News Bureau. Michelle, when it comes to the relationship with the U.S. and Ukraine, it goes back and forth here. What's the read on this? Yeah, well, it certainly goes back and forth. And as we all know, the president does like to be unpredictable. He likes to kind of maintain leverage and, you know, obfuscating what his thinking might be and what his actions might be. And so while this is pretty jolting and a 180 turnabout, really, in terms of his comments around who is best positioned to win this war, is kind of part and parcel of what we've seen from Trump and his sort of transactional diplomacy and his unpredictable diplomacy at that.

3:17Yeah, my jaw dropped when I saw this. Carol can attest to it because, you know, for months we've been hearing about the idea that, yes, this war could end. This is coming from the president. This war could end if Ukraine seeds some territory. And we took that to be to be land here. So this would seem like a direct 180. How does this happen with or let me rephrase the question, Michelle. Can this happen without U.S. support?

3:46Carol Massar:Well, that's certainly a high bar. I mean, I think we need to also look at this through the lens of what Trump is trying to achieve here. I mean, obviously, he's been expressing disappointment as recently as this morning in his UN General Assembly speech about Putin's behavior, the Russian president's behavior, as opposed to what Trump's expectations were coming into office as he admits he thought this would be one of the easier conflicts to resolve based on his relationship with Putin. That has not turned out to be the case. And it's frustrating the U.S. president to the point of him kind of turning his strategy on its head and now speaking as if Ukraine has the upper hand in the war.

4:27Carol Massar:So certainly some strategy in that respect. But to your point, yeah, it would be very tough, I think, to have this achieved without the support of the direct support of the U.S. But that is what Trump is willing to offer at this point. He's saying the U.S. is willing to continue to support NATO to give the European allies the resources that they need to pass on to Ukraine, but is loathe to get involved. And of course, in successive administrations, the U.S. has been loathe to get involved with boots on the ground to help out as well. Ah, but and the president did say he believed NATO nations should shoot down Russian aircraft that violated their airspace.

5:04Carol Massar:So the U.S. would continue to supply, as you said, the alliance with weapons. This was happening as he met with Ukrainian President Zelensky following recent incursions that have certainly alarmed allies when it comes to drones. He said, yes, I do. The president said when asked directly by a reporter if NATO allies should take down Russian aircraft during his meeting on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly. Again, the read on this, that seems pretty straightforward. Essentially, well, that's been an interesting developing story all day, just in the past few hours. I mean, essentially, Trump is giving his blessing for others to do what he is not willing to have the U.S.

5:45Carol Massar:get involved in. But at the same time, it still kind of contradicts or at least is at odds with the tone and tenor of what his secretary of state, Marco Rubio, said earlier in the day when he was asked about the Polish leaders, Tusk, his comments on being willing to shoot down a Russian aircraft. And Rubio kind of dismissed that and had a kind of vague line around, you know, diminishing that sort of prospect. But Trump now saying, yeah, go for it. Basically, if they're invading your airspace, NATO allies, you know, take them down. So he's certainly kind of, as we say, kind of ratcheting up his leverage against Putin in frustration over his mom and dad talking to each other.

6:30Carol Massar:Yeah, yeah, it certainly feels that way. What's the leverage that the U.S. actually has when it comes to Putin? What hasn't been tried? Well, certainly, I mean, there's a lot on the economic front. You know, in successive administrations, you always ask, you know, what more can be sanctioned? But, you know, as the Treasury Department always says and U.S. presidents have successively said, you know, there's always more that we can do. And certainly in Trump's portfolio, which has been very openly exposed in terms of what he wants to do on policy to ratchet up against Russia, he could move a little bit further to pressure other countries, including India and China and perhaps Hungary, as came up earlier today, to cease their Russian energy purchases.

7:15Carol Massar:He's already putting more pressure on European partners to do so and saying, you know, you can't be hypocritical about this. If you want me to apply these renewed penalties, you have to do it yourself as well. So he's offering Trump is offering different options for ratcheting up that pressure on Putin economically. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week daily podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube. All right. We should keep in mind that we really saw a lot of unity at the most recent Fed meeting, some dissenters, the meeting beforehand.

7:56Carol Massar:Meantime, if you're at the U.N. this morning, there were no calls for unity. Instead, President Trump assailed the United Nations and other countries in a grievance-laden speech that accused the world body of offering nothing but empty words, labeled climate change a con job and warned open borders risk destroying nations. He also criticized the organization that housed his morning address. I ended seven wars, dealt with the leaders of each and every one of these countries and never even received a phone call from the United Nations offering to help in finalizing the deal. What is the purpose of the United Nations?

8:32The UN has such tremendous potential. I've always said it. It has such tremendous, tremendous potential. But it's not even coming close to living up to that potential. For the most part, at least for now, all they seem to do is write a really strongly worded letter and then never follow that letter up. It's empty words, and empty words don't solve war.

8:57Carol Massar:All right, that, of course, was President Trump, excuse me, addressing the U.N. General Assembly this morning. Do want to mention a headline crossing President Trump to meet with the head of France, Mr. Macron, and also the head of Uzbekistan while in New York City. So these headlines are going to continue to come. With more on the president's speech, you want to go right to it. Josh Wingrove is in the House, not in D.C. He's Bloomberg News senior White House correspondent. Josh, you cover the president, all his twists and turns. This was an interesting speech. It was. It's great to be here. Great to have you here.

9:28This is a rare treat for us here. Look, the Trump show hits the road every once in a while. And, you know, the aperture opens. And welcome, welcome to the second term. You know, he hit a lot of themes that he'd hit previously in this, although probably more strongly than in the past. basically he sort of assailed the un over as he mentioned climate and immigration is two big topics going so far as to basically completely dismiss the notion of climate change as a hoax uh but also in on immigration saying that it's the single biggest political issue of our era so trying to draw the draw a line in the sand but trump being trump he talked about the teleprompter uh not working this was sort of a bit of his in the campaign let's let's just say it's open to interpretation whether that was actually the case or not the un said the teleprompter was working fine of course was yeah but then was griping uh about about the escalator that was not working fine that was not i can confirm the escalator was not was not working and then later was working it seemed to get under his skin and that's when he went off about the uh renovation that he wished he'd done and told them you know you could be walking on marble you're walking on terrazzo flooring, you know that, right?

10:36So, you know, it's, it was a journey, a weave, as President Trump likes to say, but I think it just underscores not only his longstanding disdain for the UN, remember, the US is delinquent right now, and it's fun to support the UN, Trump has given no indication that he plans to change that. But also that kind of new grievances are adding on, in particular, he thinks he, you know, he's obviously kind of gently somewhat campaigning for a Nobel Prize, he talks about ending seven wars, and he's wondering where the UN has been, He sort of wanted credit for it, said they didn't get a phone call. But Trump being Trump, you know, he got off stage, sat down with Gutierrez and then was all smiles and nice.

11:11So pick your pick your lens, I suppose. You even mentioning other leaders who he had said things about, but then had run into personally, essentially saying, you know, I ran into this person. I can't believe I'm going to be talking about this. And it's kind of it for you who covers Trump, covers the president. It's not surprising because that's the way he is. But for world leaders who are sitting there who are not necessarily accustomed to following every comment that he makes, especially at the U.N., this was unconventional. I think that that's fair to say. I mean, if you're being sort of re-onboarded into a Trump speech after maybe six years, it had been since this last one, for sure, this is going to take you by storm.

11:50I do think that there are things to watch that will make news today for sure beyond the speech, including the bilateral with President Zelensky, which should be wrapping up just as we speak right around or just has wrapped up. Trump has really shifted on Zelensky a lot. He said today that it's remarkably brave what the Ukrainians are doing. That is a big shift in tone from January. And so that one we're watching, he sort of tacitly endorsed the notion of Native nations shooting down Russian planes. Does that have to do with the recent violations of airspace that we've seen? I think I personally would read that more as a Trump sort of hand wavy type of comment.

12:24I would not read that as like an emphatic shift in U.S. policy. He sort of he sort of danced around the drone issue. He danced around it again in a separate answer today. But he did say flatly, yes, he thinks that NATO should have the right to shoot down Russian planes, not drones, if they incur on NATO airspace. So we'll see. As you know, this is speaking of longtime grievances. It wasn't just the U.N. NATO, of course, he has had sort of a bumpy ride with. But he's been more pro-NATO as of late, in particular touting the increased defense spending pledges from Europe and Canada and other allies generally.

12:57So I think that one we got a lot of eyes on. This Macron meeting could be interesting. He made a little bit of news last night wandering the streets of New York, upset about the president's motorcade. What? We can all relate to that. Everybody knows a city bike is the way to go during the U.N. General Assembly. So if only he'd had a helmet, maybe would have seen the French leader on a city bike. We can hope. That would have been lovely.

13:20Carol Massar:Yes, yeah, we can hope. But that'll be good. Trump is hosting a reception tonight. We don't actually know who's going. So we don't know if this is sort of a friends-only thing, like, you know, melee and the other whatevers, or if it's a broader thing. So we'll see. We don't know right now whether they'll let the press in, but I'll be there waiting, hoping, praying. Josh, outside. Hey, I'll be here outside waiting for you guys to invite me in. On your city bike? Yeah. On your city bike? Yeah. I mean, against everything else that's going, We're still doing stories about the H-1B visas. I mean, there's just so much, Josh.

13:50Carol Massar:When you look at the president, I don't know how you guys do it because there's so much coming at you. Top of the White House agenda right now, because sometimes I feel like watch here, guys, but don't look at here, which is maybe something impactful. I don't know. How are you sussing out kind of what matters right now when it comes to the White House? I mean, Trump always likes to flood the zone. That's been a consistent theme throughout his presidencies. I think on the H-1B thing, this is a big change. And it's a little unclear to me whether they're shifting it on the fly. Remember, they had their big announcement Friday.

14:18Everyone's brains exploded. On Saturday, they started to, let's say, detail. Critics might say walk back some of the things. For instance, Secretary Lutnik said things on Friday that have not ultimately been the policy. And then today, the new development is sort of getting rid of the lottery system. We knew that was happening. Trump had signaled before the whole$100 ,000 fee thing that that was happening. But this is a huge change. And so, you know, whether its impact on the tech sector, on health care, all this is really up in the air right now. And it's, you know, part and parcel, obviously, with a complete overhaul of the American immigration system as he sees it.

14:52So, you know, people that have H-1Bs now are breathing a sigh of relief because there was a moment there where they were like, oh, shoot, we got to get back on U.S. soil, you know, in hours. But it doesn't look like that's the case. So for now, that's the shiny thing we're looking at.

15:04Carol Massar:So while you're here in town, come back. Yes. Josh Wingrove, he is Bloomberg News Senior White House Correspondent. Josh, thank you as always. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this.

15:19Carol Massar:This week on Leaders with me, Francine Lacqua. I speak to tennis legend Rafa Nadal about how he stayed competitive despite injury. I was able to enjoy the victories probably more than if I will not have this issue. One iconic match. In my mind was, I am almost dead. And whether he misses playing. I don't miss tennis because there was nothing else to offer. Listen and watch Leaders with me, Francine Lacqua, on Bloomberg Television or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at 2 p.m. Eastern on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

16:02You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say, Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130. Federal agents dismantled a network of devices in the New York area that was used to threaten senior U.S. government officials and bore signs of foreign involvement. This, according to the U.S. Secret Service, agents discovered more than 300 SIM card servers and 100 ,000 SIM cards in several locations within a 35 mile radius of New York City. That's according to a statement on Tuesday. day. The Secret Service moved quickly, given that any attack could have severely disrupted New York at a time when world leaders are gathering in the city for a meeting of the UN General Assembly.

16:42I want to bring in Jennifer Eubank. She's the founder of Andaman Strategic Advisor. She works with companies on cyber resilience, geopolitical risk, and more. She's also former deputy director of the CIA for Digital Innovation. She joins us from Virginia. Jennifer, good to have you back with us this afternoon, I want to talk about what the Secret Service discovered here. What does an attack like this mean or a potential attack like this mean? What would be the goal of something like this? What's your view? Wow. Thanks for the invitation today. And man, there's never a dull day in national security or cyber, is there?

17:17No. And today is obviously no exception. So what I'd say is this is quite literally unprecedented activity in its scale and I would say audacity, right? Just that you cited all the figures and in its eye-watering, what would have gone into planning such an activity? And so great question to start with is why, right? What is that for? And I think officials who've been working on this have very smartly been cautious about attribution so quickly because they're still investigating. But I think you can look at it as maybe three different bins. So first, there's disruption. This network, this technology could have taken out cellular communications, emergency communications, and enabled encrypted communications amongst various actors.

18:09So disruption would have been one possible explanation. Another is threats. I mean, it seems like a lot of technology for that, but there are some anecdotal reports of threats against U.S. officials being made from some of these devices and through these means. And then the third one, you know, could be some sort of criminal enterprise or clandestine network operating on a large scale. And certainly the timing around the U.N. General Assembly, the location of the equipment, all of that suggests something more. and I'll be very eager to see what officials start to say as they come up with more details.

18:48Carol Massar:You know, Jennifer, when something like this happens, how do we how do they know that it's signs of foreign involvement versus domestic involvement? Yeah, that's a really great question. And and there's there's a bit of speculation in there, because, as I mentioned, officials are being quite close lipped at this point because they're they're deep into investigating to get the details. But there have been anecdotal reports of some sign of connection between actors using this stuff and at least somebody in a foreign official position. I think it's really important not to go too far down that avenue of speculation, but investigators will be looking for these kinds of connections because, of course, the digital footprint is out there to be investigated.

19:36So they'll be combing through that using probably technical tools, using AI, using link analysis, using all sorts of things to see if they can put together a picture of who might be communicating with whom through this system that would help them understand who might be behind it.

19:50Carol Massar:Matt McCool, the special agent in charge of the Secret Service's New York field office, said the seizure was the largest operation of its kind the agency had undertaken. I mean, size and scope. I mean, I'm assuming that there's stuff going on all the time between nations and so on. But give us an idea, I mean, how big this operation seemed to be. Yeah, it's almost unimaginable, right? Just the volume, the scope, and you cited the metrics up front. So 300 SIM servers, 100 ,000 SIM cards, all kind of spread across a region. That is unprecedented. It really is. And I think the word I used at the beginning was it's audacious as well.

20:32It truly is. And so having come out of the world of intelligence for decades, I have never seen an activity like this. So I'm going to be tracking this one very closely, really want to understand a kind of how it was done, obviously why it was done, what the potential impact could have been. But bravo to all of the law enforcement and national security officials who worked together to thwart this, because who knows which path it could have taken? Was it going to be disruption, which would have been, you know, real pain and disrupt by nature of the word? Could it have facilitated threats? Could it have launched some other criminal activity?

21:10We don't know. Yeah, I think the question is to what end, like what would be the purpose of, you know, messing with a communication system such as that? One question that I have is about the communication of this terror plot or alleged terror plot that was thwarted and why the Secret Service communicated this, why they showed us pictures, and if that's rare to do in a situation such as this. It's interesting because I'm not sure we ever have had a situation like this. That we know of. Yeah. Well, yes. Okay. Because they did the great reveal. There we go. There we go. This was the first that was ever revealed.

21:47But I'm going to suggest that this is unique in its nature in terms of the scale and the scope. But is it unique to communicate a win such as this? Does a lot of stuff happen behind the scenes that we don't know about each and every day that keeps us safe? Absolutely. And I have to believe this was not as if, you know, discovered that moment and then they came out and had press release. There is a lot of work that went to getting to this point, I have to believe. And so one of the one of the good things that has been emphasized in government, certainly on the national security side and law enforcement side, has been transparency.

22:22And so maybe we're seeing a reflection of that. And it's always difficult because you don't have all the details. You know, people want more detail. But if you don't release information, then, you know, people are frustrated about that. Can I can I make one point about this, though, that I think is really important? Yeah, because if it's super interesting, we're going to be really focused on this for for some time. until it all is unraveled. But it really does showcase that telecommunications is a frontline national security issue right now. And so we've talked previously about intrusions like Salt Typhoon.

22:58That was the massive PRC-sponsored intrusions into our telecommunications networks across the country. We are just seeing telecommunications in various ways, just right in the crosshairs of very capable state cyber actors and criminal networks. Now, we don't know which one this is or if it's both. We don't have any idea just yet. But both are very, very focused on telecommunications. And that has economic impacts. It has security impacts on the ground. If we had talked about 9-11, 9-1-1, excuse me, 9-1-1 being disrupted or other communications has business impacts across every sector. So it's something that we really need to watch in this coming year.