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22:16Carol Massar:How close are the Houthis and Iran? I mean, you know, this is the million dollar question. You know, before the US-Iran war, we saw the Houthis and Iran, their relationship. It was close. You know, they would talk about it, but it was still very known. What was the extent to it? I think since 2023 and the start of the Gaza war, you really saw the Houthis prove themselves as a vital clog within Iran's axis of resistance. You know, while Hezbollah was mainly depleted in Lebanon, the Houthis were able to carry out maritime strikes in the Red Sea, in the Gulf of Aden, and also in their eyes withstand US and Israeli attacks.

22:55So I think Iran has now seen the Houthis in a different light. They've really proven themselves. And the Houthis themselves have become more proud and confident on what they can achieve. But I have to say, you know, the Houthis would not be where they are today without Iranian support, military expertise, training. But now we've reached a stage where the Houthis make their weapons by themselves.

23:18Carol Massar:But is it safe to say they don't take moves without Iran knowing? Just got about 10 seconds. Yeah. So big military moves. It's difficult to say exactly, but I would say they wouldn't make those massive military decisions without the go-ahead from Iran. Amazing insight. Veena, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Veena Ali Khan. She is a reporter for Bloomberg News, previously working as a Middle East analyst at the International Crisis Group over in Washington, D.C. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

23:54Or watch us live on YouTube. Everyone of a certain age has their own 9-11 story.

24:01Carol Massar:They certainly do, including Mike Codella. He is particularly harrowing. He's an NYPD detective sergeant. He was assigned to Building 7, which was also known as the Solomon Brothers Building and was actually buried alive when a building fell on him. He's the author of the forthcoming book, The Evil That Walked New York. He joins us from New York. Mike, welcome. It's good to have you on the program today. No question, a somber day. And we're grateful for you joining us. Can you take us back to that sunny Tuesday morning in lower Manhattan? Sure. So, like everyone else, when the first plane hit, I just assumed that it was a pilot off course and crashed into the World Trade Center.

24:46I was actually home at the time, getting ready to go to work. My office was in the 7th World Trade Center. I was assigned to the Secret Service Task Force. So I just got dressed like any other day, paid attention to the news, got in my car, and headed off to Lower Manhattan. When I got into the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, the tunnel was bumper-to-bumper traffic. No cars were moving. And shortly thereafter, I heard that the second plane hit. When the second plane hit, we all, most of us anyway, assumed that we were under attack, that we were under some kind of terrorist attack on our homeland. I tried to, I put my lights and sirens on trying to get out of our tunnel.

25:27but there was so much traffic and such congestion in that little two-lane tunnel, I couldn't get out. Finally, an FDNY truck passed by, blaring their sirens, and that's a huge truck. Their sirens are really loud, so vehicles were getting out of the way. I was able to negotiate my car behind their truck, and I got out of the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, once in downtown Manhattan. Again, traffic was at a standstill, so I just pulled my car over, parked at a fire hydrant and ran towards the building. I was in civilian clothes. So when I got to the building, well, prior to getting to the building, I stopped off at a corner bodega, and I asked the guy if I could use his phone.

26:12I wanted to call my wife and let her know I was okay. My cell phone wasn't working. Very few cell phones were working because the cell towers were on the World Trade Center. So I had no cell service. I asked this guy in the store if I could use his hardline phone. And, of course, he let me. I called my wife. I told her that I was fine. I was just going into the building to help evacuate some of the people at the World Trade Center. So I hung up. I ran over to the World Trade Center, and I deemed myself. And I got into the building. I went into the South Tower. As I ran in, I saw the FDNY chiefs in the lobby with a huge wall traits on the floor plan laid out on the lobby floor.

26:56I went up into one of the staircases to try to help people out. But there were so many people rushing out of that staircase that I was actually going to hinder them if I continued. So I found another staircase. I went up that staircase again looking to help people evacuate. because of the fire. The threat of fire and the burning was what I was actually looking to help people get out of. But as I started to go up the stairs, I heard a loud explosion, and then the earth vibrated, and I actually thought that we were hit with another plane. I had no clue or no indication, or I couldn't fathom that the building was coming down.

27:42But as the building continued to shake, I came down from the stairs and I saw the chiefs, all the FDNY chiefs running out of the building and I followed suit. And it was around that time when the building collapsed and threw me some 15, 20 feet out of the building.

28:05Carol Massar:I don't even know where to begin or where to pick up on that. But were you able to walk? Were you able to, were you covered? Were you, did you have to wait for someone to help you out? So I was covered, but I wasn't under like feet of debris. I had probably a couple of inches on me and I was laying on my back. I wasn't actually, to be honest, I wasn't actually even sure if I was injured or not at that point. what happened was the scene became completely dark, completely black. Like you couldn't see your hand in front of your face. That's how dark it got. And completely silent. The debris caused the air to get so thick that sound waves couldn't penetrate the air.

28:54So you couldn't hear people screaming. You couldn't hear sirens. So I'm on my back for some time. And then a detective who I actually knew happened to, he was from the Arson Explosion Squad in New York, NYPD. He keeps in his vehicle for emergencies some kind of a big heavy-duty light. And he flashed it in the sky and he said, if anyone could see the light, try to get to the light. And when I saw the light, I was able to get to my feet. and once I got to my feet, he came over and scooped me up and he took me in another building where, to this day, I don't know exactly where he took me. Wow. You know, we were talking a little bit earlier about the seventh moment of silence during the commemoration ceremony today to honor the thousands of first responders and survivors and community members who have died as a result of 9-11-related illnesses.

29:53and I'm curious if you've experienced anything since then. We're so fortunate that you're with us right now, essentially having survived those attacks, but we all know that the wounds from there did not end on that day. You know, for a long time after, I'm not sure if it was quite a year, but at least for many months, I had a cough that I couldn't get rid of. And when I had gone to the doctor, excuse me, When I had gone to the doctor, they attributed it to the fallen debris that I had ingested. And again, that cough lasted quite a long time, but it eventually subsided and completely left.

30:33Carol Massar:Mike, talk to us about the days following. I think there was so much hope right after that there would be more individuals found. And I just remember outside the hospitals on fences, right, pictures of missing people. Like, we all passed that for a long, long time, and it stayed around. Most of those people were not, never made it home that night. Let's put it that way. Tell us about the weeks following as the city was healing, trying to find its way forward. The nation was healing, or trying to find its way forward. Yeah. You know, I talk about the heroes that are really the unsung heroes from the United States, from this country.

31:22You know, after the buildings fell, of course, our first course of action was to look for survivors. And people came from all over the country, people that I met and I spoke to. They came from all over the country to help. They left their jobs. They left their families. They stayed at these flea bag hotels with people they didn't even know, literally just to help. And they got no benefit from it. Obviously, they weren't getting paid. And they stayed at the World Trade Center site, searching for bodies, helping, doing whatever they could. Whatever you would ask these people to do, they did. And they were from all over the country, the Northeast, the South, Midwest.

32:08They were people from everywhere. And literally, they gave up their lives just to come and help. And some of them spent months at the World Trade Center.

32:15Carol Massar:I have to say, one of the things that I remember so well in the weeks after, and certainly immediately after, is just whether it was fire trucks or health officials, coming from all over the area, like the different license plates of people coming to help in certainly going through the devastation. and the building and the rubble. My own brother, a contractor, was one of those folks who spent a few days downtown helping out. And it's just everybody heard the call and came forward. And it was pretty remarkable and just a really, really tough time. You know, how do we, how do you look back at that moment?

33:02Carol Massar:25 years to me is a significant part of time. And I was just thinking about it in my own world, you know, where I was, who was in my life, who wasn't. It's just, it's a long period of time. How do you look back at it? You know, it actually feels like a lifetime ago, even though everything is fairly visible in my head. But it does seem like, again, like a lifetime ago. You know, when the saying, never forget, when we were saying that years ago, So I never thought that we would forget. I never thought the United States, the people here, I never thought they'd forget. In fact, I thought they'd probably teach it in school, have a mandatory course, so to speak, and teach everyone who the criminals were, who the perpetrators were, who the terrorists were, and who the victims were.

33:55But apparently it seems that somewhere along the line in the last 25 years, a lot of people have forgotten. what's the right way to remember it in your view

34:10well i believe we should remember that we were actually attacked on our homeland and so many innocent people died you know um this wasn't these people that attacked us weren't soldiers they were terrorists and they attacked innocent lives um i think that has to be pointed out it has to be stressed. And again, the way we came together right after 9-11, unfortunately, that dissipated and it's not like that anymore. But if we could get that spirit back, then that would be an amazing feat.

34:45Carol Massar:Well, Mike, we certainly appreciate you telling your story, the reality, and taking us back to 9-11. And glad to see that you're doing okay. Mike Cordella, thank you so much. He is NYPD Sergeant joining us here on Bloomberg Business Week. And again, marking 25 years since those attacks in downtown New York and on the Pentagon and in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Business Week Daily coming up after this. So there's a lot of noise about AI, but time's too tight for more promises. So let's talk about results. At IBM, we work with our employees to integrate technology right into the systems they need.

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37:22You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 Eastern. Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Or watch us live on YouTube. 10 % of adults today were born after 2001. one. So they only know about the attacks through what they've learned from others. That's where Joseph Daniels comes in. He witnessed 9-11 firsthand. He's really helped to make sure that those who don't remember it, learn about it. He's the former president and CEO of the national September 11th Memorial and museum. And in the interest of transparency, we should note that Mike Bloomberg, the founder and majority owner of Bloomberg LP, the parent company of Bloomberg TV and radio is chairman of the 9-11 Memorial and museum.

38:05Joe, good to have you. it's so great to be here i appreciate it yeah i mean the 25 years it's just it's hard to believe i think for so many of us who are of a certain age it it really does feel like it wasn't that long ago yeah some ways it feels like just yesterday and the one of the things that when you when you think about it in your daily life all of those people the 2977 people that were killed that day all they did was what we do every day they simply got up in the morning and they went to work and never came home. And in that devastation that we saw, lower Manhattan just, you know, with the acrid smell, the smoke rising from the pile, who knew that 25 years later, one of the most positive things that have come of it is lower Manhattan is back in the most amazing intentional way.

38:57So as we remember the victims, it's really life-affirming to see people come visit the memorial, go to the restaurants around, go to the museum. The office towers are back. And that was a big part of this project.

39:11Carol Massar:The way the individuals who lost their lives, like how it's been, how they've been remembered and honored, it's pretty remarkable. I was walking through the World Trade this morning, and there's points where on the floor it says, here's where the old towers were. Like, very thoughtful, very simply, but just as a reminder. When you look at where it is today and what was so important in terms of what you guys put together to make sure you laid out the right remembrance? I mean, it was an incredibly complex project from the sort of the making it happen side because you had these emotions for these family members that were so real and so raw.

39:56And even today, this data point, 1 ,100 family members never got back a stitch of human remains to lay to rest. So especially with the museum making choices around content, how the story was going to be told, we had to be cognizant that for all of those families, bedrock of the World Trade Center is the last final resting place. So ultimately, though, when we opened the memorial on the 10th anniversary and it was the first time that family members by the thousands came on to the memorial, found their loved one's name etched in bronze forever. It just felt like this almost ethereal or magical just release.

40:35And there was a real coming together. And to see that 15 years later on the 25th anniversary today, this morning, it was amazing to see people come together again. As we get further and further away from that day and more and more people don't remember it or weren't alive when 9-11 happened, what is the right way to teach it, to remember it, and to make sure we learn from that? Well, ultimately, the best thing that a parent can do, if they have the means, and obviously New York is open for business always, but coming to the museum. We built that museum, and we knew we were going to reach this stage at some point where an increasing amount of Americans or visitors from overseas didn't have the lived memory.

41:22That's why we told the story in as much a first-person way as possible. You're hearing the voicemails. You're seeing the documentary evidence through massive artifacts, crushed fire trucks down to the personal mementos. And when you're looking at a memento or a fire truck, you're learning about the guys that were on that fire truck that did everything possible, rushed into the buildings. They got 20 ,000 people out. So the best thing they can do, first of all, schools have their responsibility. But the best thing to do is to come to Lower Manhattan, visit the memorial, go to the museum. Because everyone that's done that, and I think the number I've heard is up to something like 60 million people have come.

42:06They always leave, not only with an emotional feeling, but this idea that in the aftermath, people came together to support one another.

42:14Carol Massar:9-11 was for me, I think about, we cover news all the time and we're, you know, some far off nation and there's a mudslide or there's an earthquake and it's a headline. and then you, you know, there's always people impacted. And 9-11 for me, there were so many individuals that were guests I had talked to for years, you know, professional colleagues. And, you know, it has changed how I look at the world because it's so easy to look at something from this high level, but you remember people, lives, like so much was impacted. Yeah, it's interesting and important. So obviously 9-11 had an international impact.

42:57People from 92 nations were killed. Obviously the Pentagon, Flight 93. But for New Yorkers, the attack was so personal. Because the World Trade Center, what it represented. It was a rock. Exactly. And I was reflecting with someone today at the memorial that, remember that unsettling feeling after the attacks where you'd look down lower Manhattan and the emptiness of the towers no longer being there was really unsettling. And the redevelopment, American Express, who just announced that they're building the final tower and they're moving in, it's a huge success story. And honestly, again, I was 32 when Mike Bloomberg hired me as his permanent president, and I'm working for Mike Bloomberg.

43:44And that was such a big part of it, about bringing life back, restoring the economic impact at the same time having a space for remembrance.

43:52Carol Massar:Yeah, well, we talked about New Yorkers. You think about Bob De Niro, Robert De Niro, and his team and bringing back with the Tribeca Film Festival and what that did for downtown New York as well. And they're just things where New Yorkers came together and wanted to make sure that New York came back even stronger than ever. Yeah, and that side of it with Bob De Niro and Gene Rosenthal, The Tribeca Film Festival was such a big first step in bringing culture, life, music back to lower Manhattan, back to New York City. It's a great part of it. We had to learn how to live again and laugh again and enjoy ourselves again.

44:32Carol Massar:That's right. It was a process here in New York. I think, too, it's fair to say that even though that was a singular day 25 years ago, the entire world shifted. And the way we think about not just security and terrorism, but the global balance of power and so-called forever wars, Iraq and Afghanistan, and maybe even now Iran, we can draw some sort of line from that day to now. I'm just curious how you think about that. Well, it's absolutely true. And even in looking back at what led to 9-11, starting with the rise of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan in the 1980s, those roots are planted then. And the geopolitical picture then, who we are supporting at various times, the Russians, and then, of course, the towers were first attacked in February 26, 1993.

45:29Right. And the six names of those victims are also on the 9-11 memorial. And then, of course, you have the USS Cole and the 9-11 itself. And then those the wars. I mean, it's a complicated and very, you know, it's not a simple narrative to be able to outline. Is there I know you left the museum some years ago, but I'm curious about how when you were building it and building the memorial, you thought about it as a living memorial and adding to it as the story continued to unfold. So with the museum and absolutely like telling the story, not just of the day, but how the recovery period, the aftermath, they have a, we told the story when Bin Laden and Operation Neptune finally came together and Bin Laden was killed.

46:18It needs to have a living quality to it. and it does although that the core of it is the story of the day and the aftermath and we have a section in the museum on the south footprint which is in memoriam and it's a picture of every one of the victims and when you walk into that room and you see their pictures they're all different some are very formal like corporate headshots others are sitting in a backyard at a barbecue and it really, and you see every color, every race, every religion, it's a snapshot of the world and the diversity of New York City. It's a, yeah, life continues with that.

46:58Carol Massar:We just have about a minute left, Joe. Just take us to this morning and today. You walked in and you shared with us before we got going, but just got about a minute here. Tell us just about today. The number of families that came this year, it was overwhelming and just really beautiful to see. In some ways, each anniversary, certainly for me and many others who come, it's like a reunion. I met this group that people should remember was called Tuesday's Children. And it was an organization founded right after 9-11 for the kids who lost parents. 25 years later, these kids are no longer kids. They're having careers.

47:36And to see four of our living presidents come today, that also made it felt really great. because it was a reminder that this date in our recently marked 250-year history is a big, big chapter. And it was great to see the four living presidents and all the other dignitaries. But ultimately, it was about the families and hearing the names of those that we lost. Thank you.

48:02Carol Massar:We really appreciate you coming. It's a very heavy and emotionally charged day for so many, certainly here at Bloomberg, but throughout the nation. but in particular in the New York, I feel like area. Joe, thank you. Joe Daniels. He's former president and CEO of the National September 11th Memorial and Museum. It is in downtown New York. This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.

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