Inside ICE Detention & Trump Tariffs at SCOTUS

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1:15Cheaper prescriptions that are easier to get and care that looks at the whole person. How you need it. Optum is helping make healthcare work as one for everyone. Learn more at business.optum.com. This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from Bloomberg Radio. They're calling it Operation Midway Blitz. President Donald Trump has started his immigration crackdown in Chicago with agents flooding the city as it becomes the latest flashpoint in a national struggle over how far the federal government can push local authorities in sanctuary cities to cooperate with its immigration agenda. Though the administration has said the operation will target the worst of the worst criminals who are not in the country legally, Illinois Governor J.B.

2:07Pritzker says the operation is making many law-abiding immigrants, even those who are citizens, fearful. They're afraid to go shopping. They're afraid to take their own children to school. because they have mixed status households. Immigration advocates say that ICE agents also appear to be stopping and arresting people on the street. So how will the Supreme Court's ruling this week that lifted the ban on ICE agents in L.A. stopping and detaining people solely based on their race, language, occupation, or location affect the ICE operations in Chicago? My guest is Elora Mukherjee, a professor at Columbia Law School and director of the school's Immigrants Rights Clinic.

2:54Elora, how do you think the Supreme Court's ruling this week will affect these immigration stops? The Supreme Court issued a devastating opinion on Monday. It's first worth noting that the full court issued a decision that was only one paragraph long, And it was accompanied by a concurring opinion by Justice Kavanaugh and a dissenting opinion that was joined by the three liberal progressive justices, Justice Sotomayor, Justice Kagan, and Justice Jackson. And the question in the case is whether a federal district court's decision should stand. And the federal district court had found that raids were part of a pattern of conduct by the government that likely violated the Fourth Amendment.

3:47and the district court found that the government was stopping individuals based solely on four factors, their apparent race or ethnicity, whether they spoke Spanish or English with an accent, the type of location where they were found, such as a car wash or a bus stop, and the type of job that they appeared to work at. And the district court found that these four factors taken alone, that's not sufficient to satisfy the Fourth Amendment's requirement of reasonable suspicion. And the district court enjoined the federal government immigration officers from using those four factors alone in carrying out immigration enforcement.

4:30The executive branch then appealed that case to the Ninth Circuit, and the Ninth Circuit said, while the case is pending, we're going to let the lower court decision stand. And then the executive branch further appealed that to the U.S. Supreme Court. And in Monday's one paragraph decision, the court said, we are vacating, we are ending the lower court decision. What this means in practice is that immigration officers, as well as other law enforcement officers, now practically have an invitation to engage in racial profiling when they are carrying out stops. As the concurrence by Justice Kavanaugh suggests, race, ethnicity can now be used as a factor in establishing reasonable suspicion about whether or not a person is in the United States illegally without documentation.

5:29Justice Kavanaugh really downplayed what these stops are like, saying, you know, it's typically brief. You can go free after you show you're a citizen or that you're here illegally. Does that comport with reality? Justice Kavanaugh's concurrence minimizes the violence that is used in these stops and minimizes the harm to individuals, families and communities from racial profiling. One of the plaintiffs in this very case is Jason Gavidia, a Latino U.S. citizen who was ordered to stop by masked agents, and they asked him questions, then used violence against him, even though he had repeated at least three times that he's an American citizen.

6:18citizen. They took his phone, they pushed him up against a metal gated fence, they put his hands behind his back, they twisted his arms, and they never gave him his ID back. Another U.S. citizen, Jorge Viramontes, was repeatedly questioned when he was at his place of work between June 9th and June 19th of this year. Every time he was asked if he was a U.S. citizen, he had to show his ID. And the effect of this decision is that America has become a show-me-your-papers country for the overwhelming majority of people of color. While this decision specifically focuses on people who are Latino in L.A., the implications of this decision invite racial profiling nationwide.

7:10I said they're going to flood the zone. This gives them now the authority to go full speed ahead. What does that mean for cities like Los Angeles and Chicago? go. With the passage of the so-called Big Beautiful Bill, there are now billions more dollars allocated to ICE and immigration enforcement and immigration detention. What this opens up is the possibility for immigration officers and federal law enforcement officers on the streets of many major cities in the United States. Now, I hope we never get to that point. And we are seeing the people and elected officials of Chicago resisting there so that what happened in LA isn't replicated in Chicago.

8:02And in terms of what happens next, it will be up to the American people and the extent to which we can resist the worst abuses of the executive branch. So I know you represent some families that are in ICE detention. How difficult is it to represent someone who's being held by ICE? It is extraordinarily difficult to represent people in ICE custody. Right now, the youngest person I'm representing in ICE custody is only two years old. Immigration detention centers are often located in areas that are hard to access in geographically remote areas of the country. For example, the family detention center in Dilley, Texas, is more than an hour outside of San Antonio, and it can be difficult to have reliable access to your clients and to prepare court hearings.

9:03Increasingly, immigration court hearings for asylum seekers who are detained are being scheduled on a very fast turnaround time because the administration is trying to push forward deportations as quickly as possible without sufficient time and sufficient due process for many immigrants to prepare. It's also very difficult for many immigrants to access counsel while they are in detention because it's so much harder to contact a lawyer and get someone to work with you while you're detained. I mean, what's life like in an ICE detention facility? It's very difficult for many immigrants in immigration custody.

9:49Overwhelmingly, immigration detention centers are overcrowded and unsanitary. Often people don't have access to high quality or sufficient food. At the Family Detention Center in Dilley, children have submitted sworn testimony to federal court explaining that there is not adequate clean water, potable water, and that adults at times have pushed children out of the way in an effort to get access to the water. There are questions about the quality of medical care in immigration detention centers, and immigration detention is simply not an appropriate place for children who are seeking asylum. One of the cases I worked on this summer involved a six-year-old child with a leukemia diagnosis who was arrested when he and his family showed up to their immigration court hearing in L.A., and then they were detained for over a month.

10:58During that time, I begged DHS to release the six-year-old boy and his family, and it took filing a federal habeas petition, so a petition in federal court for DHS to realize that this family should not be detained. Aren't there special protections for children? For decades, immigrant children have received protections under an agreement, a settlement agreement known as the Flores Settlement Agreement, which requires the federal government to provide basic minimum protections for children in federal care, both in terms of conditions of custody and prioritizing children for release. because nearly everyone recognizes that children shouldn't be in federal immigration custody, federal detention centers for long periods of time.

11:51Very unfortunately, the Trump administration has moved to terminate, meaning end the protections in the Flores settlement agreement. And if the Trump administration prevails in court, Children in federal immigration custody will be left with virtually no means of protection. As far as the asylum hearings themselves, are the standards what they should be or are they imposing tougher standards for asylum? Increasingly, it's harder to win asylum in the United States. In recent days, the Board of Immigration Appeals has issued multiple opinions that rescind protections for categories of asylum seekers, such as asylum seekers who've been persecuted based on their membership in a particular family or based on their gender and nationality, for example, for survivors of domestic violence.

12:49In addition, there have been myriad changes on the immigration judge bench. Since January of 2025, it appears that more than 100 immigration judges have been fired, and the Trump administration is trying to replace those seasoned immigration judges with judges from the military JAG officers, who instead of being trained for months, which has historically been the standard for immigration, Immigration judges will receive two weeks of training before dealing with cases on a daily basis where people's lives are literally at risk. These are life or death decisions for many of the individuals who appear before immigration courts.

13:35Elora, thanks so much for giving us a little bit of an inside look at ICE detention. That's Professor Elora Mukherjee of Columbia Law School. Coming up next, the Supreme Court is taking on Trump's tariffs. This is Bloomberg. Whether you're planning a big tech event, launching a new campaign, or just stocking up on team gear, finding the right promotional products makes all the difference. 4imprint offers thousands of options, from on-trend apparel and premium drinkware to tech, totes, and giveaways, so you can find the right fit for any audience, purpose, or budget. You can customize it all, your logo, your message, your look, and many items come with no setup charge to help you save.

14:15And if you're really watching the bottom line, you'll find standout choices at every price point so you can make a real impact while staying on budget. Plus, you'll get expert help, fast turnaround times, and their 360-degree guarantee. So you can be 4imprint certain your order will arrive on time and look exactly right. Whatever your goal, 4imprint makes it easy to find your perfect promo match. Explore the possibilities today at 4imprint.com. 4imprint. 4certain. Support for the show comes from public.com. If you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions, buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge.

14:55On public, you can now create AI agents that handle all of these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English. Like if the VIX hits 25, buy a put option on the S &P 500. Or if my cash balance goes above$20 ,000, move the excess into my direct index. You approve of the workflow and your agent handles the risk. Monitoring the market, watching for your conditions, and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent, not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com slash market and fund your account in five minutes or less.

15:36That's public.com slash market. Paid for by public investing.

15:53Let's talk about healthcare for a second. It doesn't always work the way people expect it to. If you've ever waited on a prescription refill or had a hard time getting the care you needed, you know the feeling. The system should just work better for everyone. That's exactly what the people at Optum are trying to do every day. They're a healthcare company linking patient care and pharmacy services and using data and technology to drive the whole system so care is connected, not complicated, for patients and providers. Things like making it easier to get care that looks at the whole person, from primary care doctors to mental health support and even in-home care, and then using technology to make sure they all work together.

16:32Technology designed to help doctors spend less time on busy work and more time with their patients. And those prescriptions? Optum is working to bring costs down, save patients money, and make it easier to get refills. Little by little, Optum is helping make health care work as one for everyone. Head to business.optum.com to see how. If you took away tariffs, we could end up being a third world country. President Trump warned of dire consequences after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit ruled that he had exceeded his authority by invoking an emergency law to hit nations across the globe with steep tariffs.

17:14The administration rushed to the Supreme Court to appeal, asking for a quick resolution concerning his signature economic policy. If that ruling ever went against us, I guess we'd have to give back hundreds of billions. We would have to give trillions and trillions of dollars back to countries that have been ripping us off for the last 35 years. And I can't imagine it happening on a legal basis. They have no legal basis whatsoever. But on a common sense basis, it would destroy America. The Supreme Court accommodated Trump as the conservative majority has in almost all of the emergency cases filed since January.

18:00It set a lightning fast timetable by the court standards with arguments in November. The appeal will test the conservative controlled court. It will be the first time during Trump's second term that the justices will actually hear arguments, get full briefings, and then weigh the underlying legal merits of an administration policy. Joining me is David Townsend, a partner in Dorsey & Whitney's International Trade Group. Dave, the court has set an unusually aggressive schedule for the court. When do you think we'll get a decision? Hard to know. The Supreme Court can move at its own pace. The schedule that was agreed to had been proposed by the United States in its appeal from the Federal Circuit decision and was not opposed and actually supported by the plaintiffs in the case who are U.S.

18:57importers and allege that the tariffs are unlawful. In terms of schedule, I suppose because they did establish expedited briefing. We have the hearing in November. If the Supreme Court wanted to move very quickly, it could issue something before the end of the year. It's also possible that this will go well into 2026 before we actually have an opinion. The Federal Circuit ruled 7-4 that IEPA, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, doesn't authorize these tariffs. Explain how the Federal Circuit came to that conclusion. Yeah, the Federal Circuit had said that the case is really a statutory interpretation case, at least in terms of the opinion issued by the Federal Circuit.

19:43The Federal Circuit was looking at whether the International Emergency Economic Powers Act or IEPA authorizes the tariffs that the Trump administration has imposed on global sources, including for trade deficits as well as fentanyl-related tariffs under IEPA. And the Federal Circuit said that it didn't think IEPA did authorize the tariffs that the Trump administration imposed and held them all off. The Federal Circuit looked to a couple different sources to support its conclusion. There's quite a bit of discussion in the opinion about other areas of U.S. trade law, areas where Congress had used words explicitly allowing the imposition or adjustment of tariffs or duties.

20:30And the Federal Circuit noted that IEPA doesn't use the word duties or tariffs in it. It allows the regulation of importation into the United States. But in light of the absence of the words tariffs or duties, the Federal Circuit found that they did not think Congress intended that IEPA allowed the imposition of global tariffs in the way the Trump administration had done. They also pointed out that as a constitutional matter, the power to impose duties under Article 1 resides with Congress, and they used that as a way to interpret AEPA as inconsistent with what the Trump administration had done.

21:10And they also noted that no prior president had used AEPA to impose tariffs. So it sounds like the majority sort of took the safe route, the conservative route in their analysis, although there were dissenting judges. Yeah, I mean, the Federal Circuit fractured seven to four, as you said. There were some of the judges on the Federal Circuit who said that AIPA never allows tariffs. The majority opinion didn't quite go that far. And then the dissent said that they do think AIPA is intended to allow the president to impose the kind of tariffs and adjust the tariffs in the way the Trump administration has.

21:51I mean, I think that the majority opinion really sticks to this as a statutory interpretation question at its core, rather than looking to the constitutional issues such as the non-delegation doctrine to decide the case. What's the key argument that the Trump administration is making here? Does it focus on that provision in IEPA that says that the president can regulate the importation of property to address an emergency? Yeah, right. The IEPA text allows the president to take action to regulate the importation of items into the United States. And the Trump administration's core argument is that the power to regulate encompasses the power to impose taxes and duties, such as they've done here.

22:41And as support for that, they note that the IEPA statute itself allows a variety of actions. It allows broad discretion to the president to prohibit import of items into the United States. It allows the president to prohibit transactions with certain countries or certain persons in non-U.S. locations. And so if it allows the prohibition of transactions or the prohibition of imports and also allows the regulation of imports, then according to the Trump administration follows that they can impose taxes or duties or something short of such prohibitions, including the tariff regime that the Trump administration is currently administering under IEPA and using as a basis to negotiate framework trade agreements with other countries.

23:32Of course, no one knows how the Supreme Court will rule, but Bloomberg Intelligence has determined there is a 60 % chance that the justices will agree that the reciprocal tariffs are illegal because the trade deficit isn't an emergency, but will find that the fentanyl tariffs are lawful and reinstate them. What do you think? Yeah, it's possible that the Supreme Court could do something like that. And certainly the ultimate outcome in terms of what the Supreme Court issues as any remedy should it find the IEPA tariffs are unlawful is wide open and difficult to predict. I think that the initial statutory question, does IEPA allow the imposition of tariffs, is one question.

24:19And the Supreme Court could say something like, yes, we think IEPA can permit tariffs. And in fact, there's a lengthy discussion in the Federal Circuit opinion about a prior court case called Yoshida, where an appellate court had looked at exactly that issue under the IEPA predecessor statute called the Trading with the Enemy Act. So there's the question, does IEPA allow tariffs? They could answer that. Yes, it does. But they could also say something to the effect of the executive orders issued here in some manner go beyond what we think IEPA was intended to permit, especially if the Supreme Court thinks it's wide open and too discretionary in how the administration is adjusting the tariffs.

24:59I'm not sure I would say that I think that outcome is likely, but it does show you that there are various steps of the analysis that the Supreme Court could use to ultimately reach the outcome and conclusion in the case. No president before has tried to use AIPA to impose tariffs, but has the court addressed anything similar in the past? Yeah, the Supreme Court has looked at AIPA before. For example, There was a prior case involving the Iranian hostages that were taken during the Iranian revolution. The United States citizens were held hostage in Iran, and the president had used IEPA as a basis to negotiate a process for the hostages to be released, but also for the resolution of claims against Iran that arose out of the revolution where people's property had been seized or taken.

25:54And so the Supreme Court was forced in that case to look at whether AEPA allowed the president to essentially nullify court cases that were ongoing in property that had been seized pursuant to those court cases. And in that case, the Supreme Court said that AIPA is a broad grant of power. It is designed to allow the president to negotiate and thus would allow the president to freeze or exterminate claims in U.S. courts relating to the Iranian revolution. And I mean, you know, whether that has any bearing on the issue before the court now relating to tariffs and the Trump administration executive order is sort of unclear.

26:36It's not hard to distinguish between the situation the Supreme Court looked at there and the one before the court today. Could the major questions doctrine come into play because that stopped Biden from his student loan program? The Federal Circuit said, yes, that the major questions doctrine is relevant here. They noted the vast, what they call economic and political significance of the case. And the Federal Circuit found that that counsels for a narrower view of what Congress intended in enacting IEPA, especially given that the president had never previously used IEPA as a basis for the imposition of tariffs.

27:20Whether that is the path that the Supreme Court ultimately uses to resolve the case, very difficult to predict. The dissent at the federal circuit did not think the major questions doctrine prohibited the executive orders and the imposition of tariffs here, both the reciprocal and the fentanyl-related tariffs. So, you know, you can take both sides. Whether the Supreme Court will be persuaded that that doctrine applies is unclear. Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, I'll continue this conversation with Dave Townsend. How is all this uncertainty about the tariffs affecting companies? I'm June Grosso, and you're listening to Bloomberg.

28:04Whether you're planning a big tech event, launching a new campaign, or just stocking up on team gear, finding the right promotional products makes all the difference. 4imprint offers thousands of options, from on-trend apparel and premium drinkware to tech, totes, and giveaways, so you can find the right fit for any audience, purpose, or budget. You can customize it all, your logo, your message, your look, and many items come with no setup charge to help you save. And if you're really watching the bottom line, you'll find standout choices at every price point so you can make a real impact while staying on budget.

28:37Plus, you'll get expert help, fast turnaround times, and their 360-degree guarantee. So you can be 4imprint certain your order will arrive on time and look exactly right. Whatever your goal, 4imprint makes it easy to find your perfect promo match. Explore the possibilities today at 4imprint.com. 4imprint. 4certain. Support for the show comes from public.com. If you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions. Buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge. On public, you can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf.

29:14Just describe what you want to do in plain English. Like, if the VIX hits 25, buy a put option on the S &P 500. Or, if my cash balance goes above$20 ,000, move the excess into my direct index. You approve the workflow and your agent handles the rest. Monitoring the market, watching for your conditions, and executing your strategies exactly as defined. An investing platform driven by your intent, not just your clicks. You can also get full read and write access to your account via the public API. Go to public.com slash market and fund your account in five minutes or less. That's public.com slash market.

29:53Paid for by Public Investing. Brokered services by Open to the Public Investing, Inc., Member FINRA and SIPC. Advisory services by Public Advisors, LLC, SEC Registered Advisor. Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosures. Let's talk about healthcare for a second. It doesn't always work the way people expect it to. If you've ever waited on a prescription refill or had a hard time getting the care you needed, you know the feeling. The system should just work better for everyone. That's exactly what the people at Optum are trying to do every day. They're a health care company linking patient care and pharmacy services and using data and technology to drive the whole system so care is connected, not complicated, for patients and providers.