Judge Speaks Out Against DHS List Naming Judges 'Worst of the Worst'

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1:17I'm Nathan Hager. And I'm Karen Moscow. Join us each morning for curated stories on current events, politics, business, and foreign relations. Plus one conversation on the day's biggest developments all in just 15 minutes. Subscribe to Bloomberg Daybreak for a precise, thoughtful take on the stories that matter. Listen to Bloomberg Daybreak each morning on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you listen. This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from Bloomberg Radio. And I'm ashamed of certain members of the court, absolutely ashamed. In an unprecedented turn for a U.S. president, Donald Trump has criticized Supreme Court justices who ruled against him, at times even ridiculing them.

2:05They're just being fools and lapdogs for the rhinos and the radical left Democrats and not that this should have anything at all to do with it. They're very unpatriotic and disloyal to our Constitution. And the acting Attorney General Todd Blanche has said the Justice Department is at war with federal judges. These activist judges that they have a robe on, but they are more political or certainly as political as the most liberal governor or DA. And now the Department of Homeland Security has taken the administration's attacks on federal judges to a new level. Its top lawyer has posted a list of the, quote, worst of the worst district court judges.

2:53DHS General Counsel James Percival listed four judges who ruled against the administration's immigration agenda in a post on X. It mirrors the way the department lists the names of dangerous immigrants as the worst of the worst. This, as threats against federal judges have more than tripled over the past decade, Joining me is Judge Esther Salas of the U.S. District Court for the District of New Jersey. Judge Salas, what was your reaction when you saw this post by DHS's top lawyer? My reaction was a bit of shock because I wouldn't have imagined that a representative like General Counsel of DHS would be launching something like this that I think is an attack personally on the judges and not on the merits, but on the judge.

3:52And I think some of the procedural information even provided in those ex posts are inaccurate. And so I worry for those judges and I worry what is to come from every judge that finds him or herself on this weekly unveiling, if you will, of the new worst of the worst district judge. I just don't understand what's the end game. What is the end game? with this type of rhetoric coming out of DHS. I don't understand it. These judges, the four judges that were listed, were listed because they ruled against the administration's immigration agenda. You know, I think that it's pretty clear that they're taking issue with the judges' rulings.

4:43And instead of appealing the judges, they're launching these personal attacks. I mean, the point of indicating the president who nominated them. What's the point of that? And then going on to, in some instances, mischaracterize what the judge did and why the judge did it. And certainly not attaching links to the judge's opinions or the docket so that his followers can maybe judge for themselves. This is, I think, an intentional agenda of attacking judges. and it's this negative PR campaign, that I think we've got, sadly, more instances of DHS doing this. This isn't the first time that we see these types of tactics used to unfairly attack judges.

5:36We saw DHS do this to Judge McElroy and indicating on a government website that that judge posed a national security threat. And the judge got threatened after that reckless post on, again, a government website. We see it with Judge DuBose in Rhode Island. And that was a judge that there was an intentional act to keep key information from the judge in that instance. The judge was not told about a murder investigation that was ongoing in another country. And when the judge released the petitioner, they then posted how this judge was a Biden activist judge who let a potential murderer go. And this has played out in Rhode Island.

6:29This is fact, what they've done. And the sad fact is this information about Judge DuBose is still up on the website, even though they now know that, you know, they'd had to apologize for what they did with Judge DuBose. And we see now the sad case and, you know, God rest his soul of a judge in the Middle District of Florida, Judge John Steele, who, you know, I think made a ruling based on the law. There was an opportunity for DHS to appeal the judge's ruling. They didn't. And instead, they labeled him an activist judge, put his name out there. My understanding, at least based on the information I'm looking, is that threats began to come in as a result of this.

7:17And we don't know much, so I want to be careful, but the judge is no longer with us. These are intentional acts that I think are reckless and I think put judges' lives in danger. And I just don't understand, again, what is the end game with this worst of the worst series? What are we looking to do? Are we looking to intimidate judges who don't want to be on the worst of the worst list because they're going to be now targets for threats? So are we working on intimidating judges? Are we threatening judges by putting this information out there and looking for people to then take matters into their own hands?

8:07What is the end game when we do this type of series, in quotes? Yeah, well, a DHS spokesperson said that the social media thread is nothing more than a factual review of judicial decisions and their real-world consequences. If accurately describing a judge's rulings is controversial, the issue isn't the reporting, it's the rulings themselves. The record speaks for itself. Facts aren't attacks. So they're not backing down. Well, then I encourage your audience to actually fact check these ex-posts, because I can say procedurally, they've been fact checked on my end. I'm not going to talk about the merits.

8:52They're open cases, so I can't do that as a sitting judge. But I can tell you procedurally, there are inaccuracies. And we can just look to actual cases now, like what they're posting about Judge DuBose. And there is exactly evidence now that, you know, she wasn't provided the necessary information. In fact, it was intentionally kept from her. That's still up there. And that's not fact anymore. And why it remains up is beyond me. But, you know, what they continue to do is, I think, directly attacking judges personally. These are not merit-based arguments. These are, you know, these are very personal attacks on these judges.

9:42And, you know, the fact that you can do it is one thing. But should our leadership be doing this? That's the other question I have. Well, it seems to be coming from the top. If you put it in the context of the administration attacking the judiciary, President Trump has repeatedly called out activist judges, and he tore into the Supreme Court justices who ruled against his tariffs, calling them fools and lapdogs. You have the acting attorney general talking about being at war with the federal judiciary? Is it sort of an attack on the rule of law? You know, I've been very open and honest about my feelings with respect to the president's comments on down.

10:30And I speak to you today as Daniel's mom. You know, this is an incredibly hard month for Mark, my husband and I, and we are reminded of what's at stake here when our political leaders are recklessly and irresponsibly using rhetoric to attack judges, what can happen? In our case, we know that a lawyer who was unhappy with the way I was handling his case, what he did six years ago in ringing my doorbell on a Sunday afternoon at five o 'clock in the afternoon and taking the life of my only child, one shot to the chest. He almost took my husband's life as well that day. There are a lot of vulnerable people out there, mentally vulnerable people, that see what our leadership is doing in really demonizing judges and vilifying us.

11:25And that is what they're doing with using terms like monsters, hating America, legal insurrectionists, rogue, corrupt, judges with agendas, activist judges. These words fuel people that perhaps are otherwise unable to really control themselves. And I just think it's irresponsible and inconsistent with the president's own counsel after the White House Correspondents' Dinner and the issue that happened there. I think the White House spokesperson, along with the president, talked about toning down the rhetoric, talking about toning down the rhetoric and watching for our vitriol. And yet we see the department, DHS, doing exactly the opposite of what has been at least encouraged by the president and his own spokesperson.

12:21Please stay with me, Judge Salas. Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, I'll continue this conversation with federal judge Esther Salas. President Trump doesn't appear to be toning down the rhetoric against judges. I'm June Grosso, and you're listening to Bloomberg. Support for the show comes from public.com. If you're actively involved in your portfolio, you probably catch yourself repeating the same actions. Buying the dip, manually sweeping idle cash, putting on a hedge. On public, you can now create AI agents that handle all these tasks on your behalf. Just describe what you want to do in plain English.

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14:19The U.S. Marshals Service has reported a rise in threats against federal judges to more than 560 last year. But the administration doesn't appear to be toning down its rhetoric against judges. On Wednesday, President Trump went into another tirade against the Supreme Court on Truth Social, complaining without any evidence that the decisions on tariffs and birthright citizenship had cost the nation trillions and trillions of dollars. He also reposted a tweet critical of Justice Amy Coney Barrett. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche has said the Justice Department is at war with judges. And the top lawyer at the Department of Homeland Security, James Percival, has put out a list targeting federal judges by name.

15:08in what he calls the worst of the worst district judge edition. I've been talking to Federal Judge Esther Salas of the District Court of New Jersey. She lost her only child, Daniel, six years ago when a disgruntled lawyer posing as a delivery driver killed him when he opened the door to their home. After that tragedy, Judge Salas advocated successfully for legislation to enhance security for judges nationwide. Your Honor, when Justices Elena Kagan and Amy Coney Barrett testified before Congress asking for additional funds for more security because of increased threats that justices are getting, Justice Kagan explained how politicians calling out judges by name crosses a line and is dangerous.

15:58And she said it's designed to intimidate judges. Do you think that's what this worst of the worst list is designed to do? I'm going to say that Chief Justice Roberts warned all of us in 2024 about the four illegitimate attacks. And I think the Chief Justice did a great job in reminding all of us in that report about the dangers of these tactics. We talk about violence. We talk about intimidation. We talk about the spreading of disinformation, which I believe much of what are on these ex-posts contain misinformation and disinformation that is being churned out to the public, the American public.

16:41And I also believe that all of this plays into the eroding of the public's confidence in the justice system. And I think this is intentional. I think there is a negative PR campaign that is being rolled out on social media, being rolled out on national news, being rolled out in these statements that come from the top down, that the justice system is broken, that the judges are rogue, that the judges are active. that the judges are working against particular agendas. And all of this is aimed at eroding the public's confidence in the justice system. And, you know, as Daniel's mom, I can't say that this is just, you know, this is just a collection of perhaps ill-advised acts.

17:30This is a campaign that has been rolled out and in a way that I have never seen. And I don't think I've ever seen it in the way that we're seeing it now, with threats of impeachment, articles of impeachment being rolled out against judges for rulings they're making. Instead of appealing the judges, we're threatening judges with articles of impeachment. We're posting these statements that judges are threats to national security, that judges are activists, that judges are rogue, that judges are doing the unthinkable, that judges are disobeying SCOTUS and disobeying the Seventh Circuit. These are all statements that I think at best are taken out of context, at worst are misrepresenting the rulings that judges are making.

18:20And I am concerned that we're doing damage. And I don't know what the rippling effects of the damage that's being done on our democracy and on judges in general and on our rule of law. It's just, it's unheard of. And let me just add one other thing. As Daniel's mom, this is me, Daniel's mom talking. You know, when you call us monsters, when you say and accuse us of hating America, when you say that we're legal insurrectionists, when you say that we're rogue, when you say that we're corrupt, when you say that you have a war on judges, you are villainizing us. You are demonizing judges. And I think, and I hate to think this, but as Daniel's mom, someone that's living every day without her only child on this earth, that if something were to happen to one of us, you have in lots of ways insinuated that we had it coming.

19:16And that's the irresponsible behavior that is for me saddening as someone that has to live every day without her only child. Daniel's birthday would have been July 13th. He would have been 26 years old. And instead, I talk to him at night when I pray to him. And I don't have my son today because a person who felt like they had to take matters into their own hands did. And I think that our political leaders who speak so recklessly and these posts that are, I think, unprecedented, I think they ought to think about what is the end game with this tactic that they seem to be rolling out very aggressively.

20:06Do you know if the four judges named in this list have been getting threats since it was posted? I don't know whether there have been increased threats now to these judges as a result of these postings. But, you know, we definitely have been able to track the spike in threats to judges. I mean, I gave you an instance with Judge McElroy and what DHS posted that led to threats for that particular judge. I can tell you that I know for certain that what they did with Judge DuBose in Rhode Island and what they posted and what remains on their website as to inaccurate information with respect to her honor, that led to threats against the judge.

20:53Yes, we are seeing there is a corresponding spike when we see these types of attacks against judges for rulings they've made. We see that. I don't know the extent, and I think that we all need to take a moment to think about what happened with Judge Steele, John Steele in the Middle District of Florida. But we know that as a result of a ruling, he, instead of appealing his honor, they went ahead and basically issued a press release on an activist judge. And based on the reporting I'm hearing, his honor did receive a spike in threats coming into chambers. He's no longer with us, and God rest his soul.

21:39We lost him on, I believe, July 15th. But this is stressful. And I think what we have to remember is that judges are human, too. And when you call our chambers and threaten to kill us and when charges are brought, as one judge told me recently, that this judge had to go to court and testify against the person who had threatened to kill this judge. And you have to sit in a courtroom and talk about the threats. When you have to come into chambers and hear horrific messages wishing you dead and wishing that you see your children killed in front of you, which, you know, I've had to hear from a colleague of mine who played me this tape that she received.

22:25And when you have articles of impeachment being brought against you, this is stressful for anyone to have to deal with, in addition to having a challenging docket and everything else. So I think that we have to be mindful of what we're doing, how the fabric of this country is outstretched right now in terms of the attacks on the judiciary and on each other. I mean, it is horrific. We are so divided and we are just so full of anger. What are the repercussions and what are the consequences to this continued rollout of attacks against the judiciary? I don't know how other people feel, but as Daniel's mom on July 29th that I'm sitting for this interview with you, I'm saying to myself, you know, is this what we want for our country?

23:23Is this what we want for each other? Are these the standards that we want to live by in this country? And I bet you they're not. But we have to get back to holding ourselves to particular standards and holding our political leaders to those same standards. And we've got to get to a better place. And these postings, even as I said earlier, can they do them or should they be doing them? That's the question. Is the judiciary taking any action against Percival for posting this list, perhaps filing a grievance with the Bar Association for unethical conduct? I'm not privy to anything. I'm speaking to you today, just as Daniel's mom, just urging our leadership to act more responsibly.

24:16I mean, take whatever issues you want to take with respect to the merits of a case. Take us up on appeal. You know, criticize the merits. If we look at these postings, they go far less to merits and their personal attacks. And I just as someone who's sort of mourning her son, I'm doing my best to warn the American public and our leadership that there are real consequences at the back end of all of this. And I, as Daniel's mom, just hope that we can all learn to disagree in an agreeable way. I hope we can get back to, you know, listening to one another and not making someone an enemy because they don't see the things the way you see them.

25:03We have a wonderful system of justice. It's not broken. And I think that in America, we need to come together as opposed to try to tear each other apart. And this is just an example for me of us acting in a way that hurts us all. It just hurts us all. So I would love for us to agree to disagree on things and when necessary appeal us. But you heard the justice's testimony about what they've been through. Justice Coney Barrett received a pizza in my murdered son's name. I learned about that for the first time in watching her testimony. That hit me hard. We heard about swatting. This is happening to judges and justices appointed by R's and D's.

25:55This is a problem that we all can agree is not discriminating. But until we agree that we are going to approach things differently and have respect for one another, I'm afraid we just give license to this conduct and it's never going to get any better unless we all start to do better with the way we treat each other. I want to just say Chief Justice Roberts was right. Tension between the branches is as old as the Republic. But what we're seeing now in these four illegitimate attacks that he warned us about, this is far from tension. This is, in some ways, it is and it feels like war. And we've got an acting attorney general that declared war on the judges.

26:44And I just don't think this is healthy for our nation. Thank you so much, Judge Salas. And my condolences over the loss of your son. I know this is a difficult time for you. I appreciate that. And I hope you know that Daniel's very much a guiding light in my life and my husband's life. And I hope that he can be a guiding light for us to come back to a centered place, a place of love and light as opposed to just hate and darkness. And right now we need a lot more love and light in this world. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your talking to me. Thank you very much, June. That's New Jersey Federal Judge Esther Salas.

27:23And that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Show. Remember, you can always get the latest legal news on our Bloomberg Law podcast. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at www.bloomberg.com slash podcast slash law. And remember to tune into the Bloomberg Law Show every weeknight at 10 p.m. Wall Street time. I'm June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg.

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