Sean 'Diddy' Combs Cleared of Top Charges

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1:51This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from Bloomberg Radio. After more than six weeks of sometimes graphic and emotional testimony, the jury deliberated about 13 hours before acquitting Sean Diddy Combs of the most serious charges against him, racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking charges relating to allegations that he used his money, power and physical force to manipulate his girlfriends into hundreds of drug-fueled sex marathons. The jury only convicted Combs of the lesser charge of transportation to engage in prostitution. So instead of facing a life sentence, Combs is facing a maximum prison sentence of 10 years and likely much less than that.

2:41After the verdict was read, Combs put his hands together and mouthed thank you to the jurors. He got down on his knees, his head bowed apparently in prayer as the jurors left the courtroom. His relatives in the audience applauded him and his lawyers, some of whom had tears in their eyes as he was led out of court. My guest is former federal prosecutor Robert Mintz, a partner, McCarter and English. Bob apparently combs his relatives and his lawyers all thought that this was a win, despite the fact that he is facing some prison time. Given the charges he was potentially facing, which included up to life in prison for the racketeering conspiracy and a minimum sentence of 15 years to life for sex trafficking, the fact that he was only convicted of two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution can't be viewed as anything other than a win by the defense and a bitter loss for prosecutors.

3:40Let's go through the charges. So the top count, racketeering conspiracy, and the charge has historically been used to take down mob bosses like John Gotti. Did the prosecutors overcharge him with this count? Well, I think that's going to be the question that prosecutors will have to ask themselves when they look back on this case whether or not it was overcharged with the RICO conspiracy. Now, the RICO conspiracy, as you say, has been used traditionally in order to prosecute organized crime figures, but it has been used more broadly in recent years and was used in a high-profile case just a couple of years ago in the R.

4:22Kelly case, where that hip-hop artist was also charged with RICO and sex trafficking in 2021. And in that instance, prosecutors did get a conviction. But here, jurors ultimately concluded that the RICO conspiracy was overcharged, that the prosecution did not meet the burden of showing that Sean Combs had used his business empire as a vehicle in order to commit further acts and in order to force his former girlfriend into performing sexual acts against their will. Bob, when a prosecutor overcharges, does that give the defense an opening to, you know, to get the jury to doubt the whole case, that it's all exaggerated?

5:08Well, that's ultimately where this case turned. It was really an argument by the defense that although Mr. Combs had committed some abhorrent acts. They had the video of him kicking Cassie Ventura by the elevator bank out in Beverly Hills. That was undeniably bad behavior and painted Mr. Combs in a very negative light. But when that was held up against the more serious charges of racketeering conspiracy, which included certain criminal acts, such as forced labor, bribery, obstruction of justice, all of that was thrown in. And basically, prosecutors were saying that he used this vast empire that he built up over many years simply as a means of forcing these ex-girlfriends to continue to perform these sexual acts against their will.

5:56And all the while, they were coerced into doing this. The defense was able to effectively pick that apart by showing text messages from both of the victims, which at various times suggested that they had participated in these acts willfully, that they were not coerced, that they could have left but chose not to. And ultimately, I think that was the downfall for the prosecution's case. It really ultimately turned on whether they believed that the victims were actually trapped in this relationship and had no way out and were literally forced to commit these acts or whether this is more complex than that.

6:35And the defense was able to show that these relationships, while toxic, while not healthy, and while it involved bad behavior by Mr. Combs, didn't rise to the level of racketeering conspiracy. The jury said yesterday afternoon that it was unable to reach a verdict, a unanimous verdict on the racketeering conspiracy charge, because there were jurors with unpersuadable views on both sides. But today, after an hour of deliberations, they came to a unanimous verdict on that charge. Do you think that with the long weekend ahead, the jurors who wanted to convict on that charge sort of caved? Well, it's impossible to know really what goes on in the jury room.

7:22You don't know the dialogue between and among the jurors, the conversations that are going on. But it did seem like the fact that they were stuck on this most serious charge suggested to at least some observers that they found a guilty verdict on some of the lesser charges, including perhaps the sex trafficking. But it turned out that they only convicted on the most minor charges, and they did reach a decision before the long holiday weekend. That's not unusual. Juries like to go home for weekends. They like to put this case behind them. But on the other hand, when you're the prosecution, you're sitting there thinking that was a seven week trial.

8:01We produced over 30 witnesses. And the fact that jurors came back in only two days with a verdict suggested that they moved very quickly through this process, looking at the evidence and reaching a verdict in a way that prosecutors are certainly disappointed with. So the two sex trafficking acquittals, which stem from allegations that Combs coerced two women, his former girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, and a Jane Doe into these so-called freak-offs. And Ventura testified over four days, some very emotional testimony. I mean, you refer to this, but did the jurors just not believe her? It's hard to say exactly what they were thinking.

8:43That testimony was compelling. That testimony had to be very emotional for jurors to sit through. And yet, at the end of the day, they did not believe that she was necessarily compelled to participate in commercial sex acts through forced fraud and coercion. The key here is there has to be a link between the force, the fraud and the coercion and the acts of sex. And I think at the end of the day, the evidence was just not clear enough for them to meet that burden. Remember, prosecutors have to prove that our case beyond a reasonable doubt is anything less than that. will result in an acquittal, as we saw here.

9:23And sex trafficking, did the charges even fit the facts here? Aren't people usually charged with sex trafficking when it's unrelated people, not people in long-term relationships like these women in Combs? Yeah, that was, I think, one of the problems, too, because the victims here were involved in these long-term relationships, And they had written many messages, emails, text messages, other writings, evidencing their love for Mr. Combs at various times, the fact that they willingly participated in some of these acts, the fact that they did things in order to please him, and the fact that after some of these sessions, they texted him saying that they enjoyed them.

10:04And I think it was very difficult for jurors to necessarily conclude that all of this was done against their will, that none of it was consensual. And as you say, June, it's a situation where the sex trafficking charge is typically brought in an instance where the perpetrator does not have a relationship with the victim. Here, there was a long-term relationship, one that was very complicated, and also one in which the victims had benefited financially from their relationship with Mr. Combs. So it became, I think, very difficult for jurors to sort out the true nature of those relationships. I don't think they necessarily disbelieved the victims, but I think they ultimately concluded that the facts as presented to them in court did not meet the elements of the sex trafficking charges.

10:53So you mentioned the financial settlements. Ventura got$30 million from Combs and Hotel, and that was used by the defense attorney in his closing statements. He called her a winner. And I'm wondering how much a huge settlement like that might affect a jury's view of a witness. I think it had to affect them. And I don't think it necessarily meant that jurors didn't believe what she was saying. But I think it fed into the defense's narrative that this was a complicated relationship, that the relationship was toxic. But at the end of the day, there was responsibility by both parties that created this toxic relationship.

11:39And they ultimately could not conclude that Mr. Combs should be convicted of this very serious charge based on a record that was unclear at best. He was convicted. He was convicted. He was convicted of two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. prostitution. That stems from allegations that he paid sex workers to come to his freak-off parties. Tell us about that. That's a felony violation of the Federal Mann Act. These were the charges that were really easiest for prosecutors to prove because all they have to show is that individuals crossed state lines with the intent to engage in prostitution.

12:18And there was plenty of evidence presented at the trial that Mr. Coembs had made arrangements for these male prostitutes to meet with his girlfriend. He bought plane tickets. There were credit card statements. There were hotel records. These were the charges that prosecutors were able to prove fairly readily. And there wasn't really much of a defense to them. I think the defense strategy was to focus on the more serious charges, which they ultimately succeeded in convincing jurors to acquit their client on. Bob, I'm wondering, because the jurors found him guilty of the lowest count, whether some jurors thought this case is overcharged, let's go for the lowest count, or whether they took each charge and considered each one on its own merits.

13:05One thing that you do see sometimes behind the curtain in jury deliberation is what's called a compromise verdict. Now, there's no way to know whether that happens here or not. But you do sometimes have jurors on one side who want to convict on all counts, jurors on the other side who may want to acquit. And ultimately, they may compromise by convicting on some but not all counts. We don't really know whether that happened here, and I'm not suggesting that it necessarily did. But that is a phenomenon that happens sometimes, and we don't know whether that was going on here or whether jurors simply went through these counts count by count and were convinced that the sex trafficking and the RICO conspiracy charges were just, as you said, June, overcharged and did not apply to the fact of the case.

13:51Stay with me, Bob. Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, I'll continue this conversation with former federal prosecutor Robert Mintz. We'll talk about the defense strategy and how it won the jurors over despite not presenting any witnesses. I'm June Grosso, and you're listening to Bloomberg. Some people treat ChatGPT like some kind of smart search engine, and some use it to get work done. ChatGPT Work is a new way of working in ChatGPT that can take action across your apps and files, stay with a project for hours if needed, and turn a goal into finished work. It's designed to help you move from a chaotic starting point to a reviewable first version.

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16:184certain. Sean Diddy Combs dropped to his knees and prayed in the courtroom after he was acquitted today of sex trafficking and racketeering charges that could have put him behind bars for life. The hip-hop mogul was convicted of lesser prostitution-related offenses. He still faces prison time, but likely much, much less than the 10-year maximum. I've been talking to former federal prosecutor Robert Mintz, a partner in McCarter and English. Combs' defense, did it take a huge risk by deciding not to put on any witnesses at all and to rely on the cross-examinations of the prosecution's witnesses, which sometimes went on longer than the direct examinations?

17:06No, I think from the very restart the defense strategy was always to win their case through cross-examination. I think they correctly sized the case up and knew that it was going to turn on the testimony of the two victims and how compelling they were, and that by adding witnesses toward the defense, it was only going to complicate the case and create a more complex narrative for them to have to convince jurors as to exactly what was going on here. They wanted the case ultimately to be about these two victims and to show that the relationship that they were in with Mr. Combs over many years was one in which they gained financially, one in which they willingly participated in.

17:46No doubt there were ups and downs in those relationships, and there were some domestic violence that went on. And the defense readily admitted that. But the question is, did it really rise to the level of racketeering conspiracy? The defense placed a large bet that the jurors would ultimately answer that question in the negative, and ultimately they prevailed. The defense also took the tact of saying you're not going to like him. He is a drug user. He's guilty of domestic violence, but he's not a sex trafficker. And the women were willing participants. Make no mistake, the defense had a tall order here because they were presenting a defendant to the jury who was not necessarily all that likable.

18:28A defendant who engaged in some reprehensible conduct, who was on video beating up his girlfriend, who at times had used controlling and threatening language. So he wasn't particularly likable in the way he was presented to the jury, which is why I think they decided ultimately to not have him take the stand. But the focus of the case from the defense standpoint was going to be more on the victims and really trying to show jurors that the government had overcharged this case. They presented this as a case of lifestyle versus criminality. And ultimately, all those with a lifestyle that I doubt many jurors could really relate to, it was something that they were willing to accept in the sense that they did not believe that much of the conduct that the government had put on during the course of the trial amounted to criminal conduct.

19:20Yeah, I mean, so the government pulled out all the stops. They had all kinds of witnesses. Do you think they did something wrong? or they missed something, or it was just a question of overcharging? I think from the very beginning, this was going to be a difficult case for prosecutors. And prosecutors really bet the entire case on the testimony of their victims. They were hoping that these victims would come across as credible. I think they were hoping that in this day and age, jurors would be sensitive to the fact that there can be abusive relationships where women are assaulted but don't necessarily leave their partners.

19:59And that doesn't mean that the acts were consensual. There was a lot of complexity here that I think the prosecution was hoping that jurors could sort out. And it simply turned out that jurors were not buying everything the government was trying to argue in terms of who Mr. Combs was and what kind of criminality he ultimately engaged in. So technically, he faces 10 years on each of the transporting counts. But realistically, how much time do you think the judge will give him? Well, the judge is certainly going to take into account the fact that Mr. Combs has already been in jail for about a year.

20:35He'll get credit for that time served. In terms of the two counts of conviction, it's highly likely that those will run concurrently, which means they will run at the same time. so he won't be facing 20 years. Really, the maximum sentence here will be 10. But I don't think he'll even get that. The federal sentencing guidelines, which give judges guidance as to what type of sentences they should hand out, are going to come out much lower than the 10 years. And at the end of the day here, this is really up to the judge. The judge has complete discretion as to decide what the appropriate sentence is here.

21:09And I think that he will sentence Mr. Combs to some time in prison, but it's not going to be anything close to 10 years. Do you think there's some added pressure on the judge because of all the publicity this case has gotten? You know, pressure not to let combs off too lightly. Well, the judge is not supposed to consider outside pressure, as you know. The judge is supposed to look at the facts and all the circumstances. He sat through the trial. He heard all the testimony. He heard from all the victims, and he heard the defense arguments. And he has to fashion a sentence that he believes is ultimately fair.

21:43But I think as a practical matter, the judge can't ignore the more serious charges that the defendant faced here and the high publicity factor that was associated with this case. So I think the judge is going to have to balance all these factors. And I do think the judge will sentence Mr. Combs to some time in jail. But I think it will be far less than the maximum 10 years that he's facing on each of the counts. Combs' lawyers said he'd likely face 21 to 27 months, but prosecutors said he'd likely face 51 to 63 months. And he's already served nine months because he's been jailed since his arrest.

22:21So we shall see. But as you say, the final decision is the judges. And the judge denied him bond and made the decision to keep him in jail while he awaits sentencing. The fact that the judge refused bail here and decided to keep Mr. Combs in jail pending sentencing, I think reflects the very serious nature of these charges, even though he was ultimately not convicted of the most serious charges. He's already spent a year in jail. He'll get time served for this additional time between the time of conviction and his sentencing. So ultimately, it doesn't really work against him. But I think the judge here is trying to convey the fact that although he was ultimately convicted only of the two less serious charges, the judge still considers this a very serious case and still considers the conduct for which Mr.

23:15Combs was convicted as serious conduct that creates a danger to the community. Thanks so much, Bob. That's Robert Mintz of McCarter in English. And in other legal news today, in a courtroom in Boise, Idaho, Brian Kohlberger pleaded guilty to the brutal stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students in 2022 in order to avoid the death penalty. The killings initially baffled law enforcement and unnerved the rural college town of Moscow. Kohlberger was arrested in Pennsylvania where his parents lived after investigators recovered a Q-tip from the garbage at his parents' house to match Kohlberger's DNA to genetic material from a knife sheath found at the crime scene.

24:00At the time, Kohlberger had just completed his first semester as a graduate student in criminal justice at Washington State. In the two years since his arrest, his attorneys unsuccessfully attempted to bar prosecutors from seeking the death penalty and challenged DNA evidence. But a plea deal was their final alternative to spare his life before the start of a trial in August. Kohlberger remained impassive as Judge Stephen Hippler questioned him, and he admitted to breaking into a rental home through a kitchen sliding door and killing the four friends who appeared to have no connection with him on november 13 2022 uh in latah county state of idaho uh kill and murder madison mogin a human being yes and did you do that willfully unlawfully deliberately and with premeditation and malice of forethought yes did you honor about that same date in uh moscow idaho um kill and murder Kaylee Gonzalez, a human being?

25:09Yes. And did you do that willfully, unlawfully, deliberately, and with premeditation and malice of forethought? Yes. And did you on that same date in Moscow, Idaho, kill and murder Zana Kurnodal, pardon me, a human being? Yes. And did you do that willfully, unlawfully, deliberately with premeditation and malice of forethought? Yes. And then on, were about November 13, 2022, again in Latok County, Idaho. Did you kill and murder Ethan Chapin, a human being? Yes. Did you do that willfully, unlawfully, deliberately with premeditation and malice of forethought? Yes. Kohlberger will serve consecutive life sentences.

25:53At least one of the families opposed the plea deal, but others supported it, saying they were ready to begin healing. The motive for the murder remains unclear, and the murder weapon still has not been found. I'm June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. Some people treat ChatGPT like some kind of smart search engine and some use it to get work done. ChatGPT Work is a new way of working in ChatGPT that can take action across your apps and files, stay with a project for hours if needed, and turn a goal into finished work. It's designed to help you move from a chaotic starting point to a reviewable first version.

26:31So all the source materials, briefs, and scattered information that you have to grind through to turn into something useful can just become something useful. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting Work Mode, available on Plus and Pro plans. This is Robert Smith from Business History. If you're listening to this, there's a good chance you're a small business owner. And like every small business owner, you started with a dream to do what you love and watch it grow. What you probably didn't dream about? Keeping up with cyber threats.

27:04That's where MasterCard can help with access to tools that help identify cyber threats to better protect your business. Building your dream business? Priceless. For cybersecurity in a changing world, there's MasterCard. Learn more at MasterCard.com slash small business. A business gift is never just a gift. It's a thank you, a milestone, a moment of appreciation. It's a message about how much someone matters and what your brand stands for. At 4imprint, you'll find thousands of customizable options, like premium apparel, branded drinkware, tech, totes, and more, each chosen not just for function, but for meaning.

27:41You can tailor every detail, your logo, your message, your presentation, so your gift feels personal and on-brand. And with expert support, dependable service, and thousands without a setup fee, creating something thoughtful doesn't mean making it complicated. Every order is backed by 4imprint's 360-degree guarantee, so you can be 4imprint certain it'll arrive exactly as expected, on time, and with the care your brand deserves. Because when the moment matters, the right gift speaks volumes, and the right partner makes it easy. Explore gifting with purpose and certainty at 4imprint.com. 4imprint.

28:174certain. This week, the Trump administration said an investigation found that Harvard University violated civil rights laws in its treatment of Jewish and Israeli students, further endangering federal funding for the school. This ramps up pressure on the country's oldest university less than two weeks after President Donald Trump said he was nearing a deal with the school following months of attacking it. Harvard said it strongly disagrees with the government's findings and said it has made significant strides to combat bigotry, hate and bias and remains committed to ensuring that Jewish and Israeli students can thrive on campus.