The Case Against Ousted Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro

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0:42With that guidance and your determination, you can take your business farther and help build a brighter future for your community. Learn more at chase.com slash business. Chase for Business. Make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Copyright 2026, JPMorgan Chase and Company. From coast to coast, unlock adventure at Red Lion Hotels by Sinesta, where restful sleep, friendly service, and trusted local knowledge are part of every stay. Red Lion makes it easy to feel welcomed, comfortable, and connected wherever the road takes you.

1:21Whether you're traveling for business or pleasure, you can spend less and make more of every trip. When you sign up for Sinesta Travel Pass, you'll get their best rates instantly. Go to Sinesta.com to book your stay and unlock the best rates with Sinesta Travel Pass. Here today, Rome tomorrow. Join now at Sinesta.com. Terms and conditions apply. This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from Bloomberg Radio. The illegitimate dictator Maduro was the kingpin of a vast criminal network responsible for trafficking colossal amounts of deadly and illicit drugs into the United States. President Donald Trump announced the stunning middle-of-the-night military operation that captured, now ousted, Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife, who will now face charges in a narco-terrorism case in a Manhattan federal court.

2:18It will be an extraordinary legal battle with major geopolitical ramifications, but little was said about Maduro or the drug trafficking charges during the nearly hour-long press conference on Saturday. The focus was on the running of Venezuela and on oil. Well, we're going to be running it with a group and we're going to make sure it's run properly. We're going to rebuild the oil infrastructure, which will cost billions of dollars. It'll be paid for by the oil companies directly. They will be reimbursed for what they're doing, but that's going to be paid. And we're going to get the oil flowing the way it should be.

2:58As you know, it was just a minor flow. It was actually a minor flow for what they have. During an initial court appearance on Monday, both Maduro and his wife pleaded not guilty to the charges. Maduro was defiant, saying, I am a kidnapped president. I am a prisoner of war. My guest is former federal prosecutor Jimmy Garoulet, a professor at Notre Dame Law School. Jimmy, initially defense attorneys are going to challenge the legality of the court's jurisdiction over Maduro. If his capture breached international law, can that be used as a grounds to avoid prosecution? Well, it's a good question.

3:37I think the invasion of Venezuela both violates U.S. constitutional law and international law. From a constitutional law perspective, this was an act of war. The invasion of Venezuela, the toppling of their president, his apprehension. I think the bombing of Caracas, I think upwards of 30 or more of President Maduro's security guards were killed. I think it's clearly an act of war. And the Constitution is very clear that Congress must give authority for this type of action, and Congress did not. I mean, Congress was made aware of this action as it was taking place or shortly after it took place.

4:22So I think that there's an issue there. With respect to international law, I think there's two important aspects to that. One is the illegality, but the other is the criminality. I think it's both an illegal act and a criminal act. Under the UN Charter, specifically Article 2, Section 4, states are prohibited from exercising the use of force within the territory of another state to impact the political independence of that state. So it's a violation of the UN Charter. But I think perhaps even more importantly, I think it's a crime of aggression. So the crime of aggression, I mean, it's an international crime.

5:00It was first prosecuted by the Nuremberg Tribunal following World War II, and it was labeled a, quote, supreme international crime, end quote. So it's the most serious criminal act of aggression. And the crime of aggression is a crime within the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court. So what I wonder there is whether or not the international law, criminal law aspects of this act of invasion would rise to the level of a due process challenge under the Fifth Amendment. The argument would be that it shocks the conscience for the U.S. military to go into a foreign country in the manner that it did, killing again 30 or more of the president, Maduro's security guards, bombing the capital city.

5:47Does that shock the conscience? Is this something that the court should say, we don't want to have anything to do with? You know, we don't want to explicitly or implicitly support this kind of government action moving forward. And therefore, you know, we're going to dismiss the case on those grounds. It hasn't the Supreme Court, though, held that criminal defendants generally can't challenge federal courts authority to preside over their cases by arguing that they were brought to the U.S. illegally. That's true. That's true. So there has been, you know, court rulings to that effect. That simply the fact that you were brought to the country, that you were apprehended in a foreign country and brought to the jurisdiction of the United States in that manner does not support a due process violation.

6:35But I think there are degrees of action here. So there's one thing about surreptitiously maybe having agents of the government go into a foreign country, snatch the defendant, remove him from the country, bring him to the United States. It's another thing and a much greater degree of misconduct and illegality to go into the country with military force, you know, bomb the country, kill government security agents, kill civilians. And then in addition to that, say that, as Trump has, we're going to run the country for the foreseeable future. We're going to control the petroleum industry and we're going to control that.

7:20And so there we kind of moved to an actual kind of occupation of the country. So I think that degree of conduct makes this case particularly unique, even unique from what we've seen in the past, let's say, with the General Noriega case and the invasion of Panama. I mean, so, you know, that has been raised as well. Look, you know, the U.S. went in to Panama. They arrested General Noriega and that was appellate by the courts and no harm, no foul. I mean, it wasn't struck down. Noriega was prosecuted. None of the legal offenses raised prevailed in the Noriega case. But here, I think there are some similarities, but there are some differences.

8:00And I think one major difference here is where the Trump administration is saying we're going to run the country. That wasn't the case in Panama. You know, the Bush administration put a person in place who was the opposition leader of the country. That person ran the country, not the United States. And the United States didn't take over natural resources the way that the president is proposing to be done in this particular case. I noticed that at the press conference, even Secretary of State Rubio is saying something different than what President Trump is saying. But we'll see what actually happens.

8:37Now, there's also the defense might challenge the court's jurisdiction based on head of state immunity. And of course, that defense failed in the Noriega case. But Noriega was the de facto head of state. He wasn't the elected head of state. And here Maduro was, even though, of course, there are substantial claims that it was a fraudulent election and he isn't the truly elected head of state. So I think that's going to be an issue. It's going to be a thorny issue. And that one, I'm not confident that defense lawyers are going to prevail on that claim. Is there any place here at all for the Supreme Court's opinion that President Trump, you know, American presidents are immune from criminal prosecution for official actions while in office?

9:30Well, I think it's certainly an argument that the defense is going to raise. They're going to say, well, look, even the United States Supreme Court has held that its own president is immune from prosecution for official acts while serving in office. The counterargument is going to be, well, drug trafficking isn't an official act. Trafficking and weapons isn't an official act. And therefore, immunity doesn't extend to that type of conduct, that type of criminal conduct. But I think at the end, what we're going to see is that there are a number of very complex legal issues that are going to be raised by Maduro's defense lawyers that are going to delay the jury trial for months and months to come.

10:18Yeah. And another thing. So Trump orders this operation to capture Maduro just a few weeks after he pardoned the former Honduran president, Juan Orlando Hernandez, who had been convicted in court on similar drug trafficking charges. So can the defense use that and argue perhaps selective prosecution? Well, I think it certainly undermines the president's claim that this was solely a law enforcement action, that the motivation was simply to bring to justice this president who was responsible for tons of illicit narcotics being trafficked in the United States. So I think that argument is hard to make when just a few months ago, the president went ahead and pardoned another former head of state who was criminally tried and prosecuted.

11:17The former president of Honduras was responsible for assisting, aiding and abetting, conspiring to traffic in over, I think, 400 tons of illicit narcotics in the United States. He received a 45-year sentence, which certainly highlights the severity of his criminal conduct. His conviction was affirmed on appeal. He received due process. There's no claim that the trial, there was anything wrong with the trial, that he did not receive a fair trial. But yet the president pardoned him. So what kind of evidence would justify pardoning such an individual? So I think that that undercuts the claim that this was just a legitimate criminal enforcement operation and really raises the issue.

12:08Well, then if that wasn't the true reason why the United States went into Venezuela, then what's the true reason? And then that raises the question of oil. Was it just all about oil? At the end of the day, is the law enforcement argument simply a facade, a disguise for the real reason, which is to take control of Venezuelan oil reserves? It sounds like there's a lot of motion practice ahead. There may be a serious question about whether this case actually goes to trial. And the reason being is that through criminal discovery, there could be requests for discovery of evidence that perhaps is classified evidence.

12:52and under the Classified Information Procedures Act, the defendant has a right to evidence to support his or her defense, even if that evidence is classified. So there could be a real interesting question about balancing national security interests with respect to classified information and the defendant's interest in receiving a fair trial. If at the end of the day the court concludes that the defendant's interest in receiving a fair trial, which is a constitutional right, supersedes the classified national security interests concerns, then the prosecution, the Department of Justice is going to have to make a hard decision.

13:33Do we want to disclose that classified information? Is that going to be so harmful to national security that we would prefer to not go forward with the prosecution or offer, try to resolve the case pursuant to a guilty plea based upon reduced charges, maybe reduced sentence. So I think there's a serious issue kind of lurking out there in that regard. And then at the same time, I wonder whether any of the evidence to be used against Maduro at trial was obtained pursuant to an electronic surveillance warrant under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. And if that's the case, then there could be extensive litigation on whether that evidence should be disclosed and whether that evidence was lawfully obtained pursuant to a lawful FISA warrant.

14:21And that could be another reason for the government willing to enter into a lesser guilty plea. Coming up next, what kind of evidence might be presented at trial? This is Bloomberg. Support for the show comes from Public. Lately, it feels like there are two types of investing platforms. Some are traditional brokerages that haven't changed much in decades, and others feel less like investing and more like a game. Public is positioned differently. It's an investing platform for people who are serious about building their wealth. On Public, you can build a portfolio of stocks, options, bonds, crypto without all the bugs or the confetti.

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17:27The U.S. government's most consequential prosecution of a foreign head of state in decades kicked off in a Manhattan courtroom today. Ousted Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and his wife pleaded not guilty to the charges against them. Maduro is facing charges of narco-terrorism conspiracy, cocaine importation conspiracy, and possession of machine guns and destructive devices. Last month, President Trump pardoned another leader, former Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernandez, who'd been tried and convicted of similar charges and was serving a 45-year prison sentence. Here's Trump's explanation of that pardon.

18:11The man that I pardoned was, if you could equate it to us, he was treated like the Biden administration treated a man named Trump. That didn't work out too well for them. This was a man who was persecuted very unfairly. He was the head of the country. He was persecuted very unfairly. And there are a number of them. And we felt that it was a very unfair situation that happened to him. I've been talking to former federal prosecutor Jimmy Garoulet, a professor at Notre Dame Law school. Jimmy, tell us a little about the charges against Maduro and the similarity to the charges the Justice Department leveled against him during the first Trump administration in 2020.

18:51They're very similar. And so, again, it's, you know, primarily kind of enabling drug trafficking, enabling drugs to be trafficked from Venezuela to the United States. So drug trafficking charges and then weapons trafficking related charges. And basically, the Maduro was part of a conspiracy with drug organization, drug cartels to traffic illicit drugs into the United States. It appears that some of the government's evidence against the Maduros includes recordings of DEA agents and relatives of Maduro. And also, there may be cooperating witnesses, because, for example, Venezuela's former military intelligence chief pleaded guilty to narco-terrorism and drug trafficking charges in the case in June of 2025.

19:46And a Venezuelan general also pleaded guilty. Does it seem as if the government does have some strong evidence? Assuming that they do, This would not be the kind of case, because it's such a high-profile case, the government is wanting to ensure that it obtains the conviction against Maduro. I mean, the last thing the government would want would be for the jury to return a verdict of not guilty, you know, quitting the president Maduro. And so I suspect that there are members of the drug cartel, members of the drug conspiracy that are going to testify against Maduro. The question then is, is that what promises were made to them in exchange for their cooperation?

20:30And under a very important Supreme Court decision called Brady versus Maryland, the U.S. government has an obligation, a constitutional obligation, to disclose exculpatory material evidence, including impeachment evidence of critical government witnesses. And so the government's going to have to disclose whatever deals they cut with these witnesses to testify at trial. And once that evidence is received by the defense, that's going to be used to impeach those witnesses at trial. And it can really undermine the credibility of their testimony. So that's another big issue. Yeah, I was wondering how difficult it would be to tie all this to Maduro?

21:17I mean, do they need direct orders from him? What kind of proof would they need? That's always a difficult challenge in drug conspiracy cases. It's easy to ensnare and prosecute and convict the lower level members and even mid-level members of the drug conspiracy. It's much more difficult to prosecute the individuals that are at the top of the conspiracy. And the reason being is because they are so insulated. They're so insulated from specific drug transactions. They have people that are acting on behalf of the drug kingpins. And so it's very difficult to uncover direct evidence, direct evidence of the drug kingpins participation in the conspiracy.

22:08And so that's going to be another challenge that the Department of Justice is going to face in this prosecution. In a case like this, I mean, for a district court judge to say there's no jurisdiction here, let him go. Realistically, would it take a lot more than a normal low profile case? I don't think any any federal district court judge is going to want to be criticized for doing that. You know, that you dismiss the criminal charges against a former head of state who was charged with, you know, trafficking in large quantities of illicit narcotics. And then on top of that, of course, there is a kind of a presumption here in favor.

22:52You know, so the courts traditionally grant substantial deference to the president, to the executive in the field of national security and foreign affairs. substantial deference. So that's the starting point. You know, that's the legal standard. That's the floor. We're going to give you great substantial deference with respect to the action taken. So it would have to be something very significant, very outrageous to kind of overcome that legal standard of substantial deference and cause the court to intervene and dismiss the charges. Do you think it could be as long as a year before this, if there is a trial, before this gets to trial with all the preliminary motions and discovery?

23:37I think it's very realistic. I think it's very reasonable to assume that when we start looking at this long list of potential pretrial motions that are going to be filed in this case, the complexity of those legal issues, the discovery that's going to be at issue in this case, I would not be surprised if the trial date, the commencement of the trial, doesn't begin until sometime in 2027. Do you see broader ramifications of this on international law in general? What does this portend with respect to international law? You know, what is the status of international law after this action taken by the president?

24:19I mean, is international law just something that the United States is going to dismiss whenever it chooses to do so and raises a defense whenever it benefits the government. But otherwise, it doesn't constitute any type of a legal deterrence. And it doesn't appear that international law, at least as the president, Trump sees it, is any deterrence to any action that the president seeks to take. I'm equally concerned about threats that the president is making to other countries, Greenland, Colombia, Mexico, implied threats, which really raised concerns about, again, what precedent this is setting for the future.

25:09So the president can do this. There are no consequences. There's no accountability. Then does that embolden him to engage in similar conduct against other countries that he has differences with? It's very unsettling. It's very disruptive to the region. Thanks so much for joining me today, Jimmy. That's Professor Jimmy Garoulet of Notre Dame Law School. Support for the show comes from Public. Public is an investing platform that offers access to stocks, options, bonds, and crypto. And they've also integrated AI with tools that can assist investors in building customized portfolios. One of these tools is called Generated Assets.

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27:31Chase for business. Make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A., member FDIC. Copyright 2026, JPMorgan Chase & Company. Deadlines move, plans change, and sometimes opportunities pop up out of nowhere. When you need branded gear fast, 4imprint is ready to deliver. 4imprint offers hundreds of promotional products in their 24-hour category. Everything from custom apparel, bags, and drinkware to writing tools, trade show staples, and high-tech gear. At 4imprint, they're focused on getting the details right, printing your logo with precision, packing your order with care, and shipping it out fast.

28:13And it's backed by their 360-degree guarantee. That's 4imprint's promise your order will show up right on time, just the way you planned it. That's what it means to be 4imprint certain. So, if you're prepping for a last-minute event or jumping on a big opportunity, you don't have to settle or scramble. With 4imprint, fast, reliable service and peace of mind are built right in. Check out their full 24-hour selection at 4imprint.com. 4imprint, for certain. The case against ousted Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro promises to be an extraordinary legal battle with major geopolitical ramifications. The middle-of-the-night military operation that captured Maduro comes after strikes on Somalia, Nigeria, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and an international waters during Trump's second term.