Future of Robots on Display at CES

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1:02Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. Radio. News.

1:11Bloomberg Tech is live from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York and Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.

1:23Welcome to a special edition of Bloomberg Tech. We are live from CES in Las Vegas where we've been tracking the biggest tech stories. Another great lineup of incredible guests today, but we've also got some news outside of CES, right, Ed? Yeah, coming up first, China plans to approve some imports of NVIDIA's H200 chips as soon as this quarter for select commercial use. Plus AI valuations pushing ever higher. Anthropic raising a new round of funding that would value the company at$350 billion. And we wrap this special CES edition today with guests from the robotics and augmented reality spaces, venture capital, and the government.

2:00But first, we check in on these markets that are in a bit of sell-off mode. Look, anxiety ahead of those non-farm payrolls data that we get tomorrow. No one taking on any more risk after what has been a really rather nice run-up in tech stocks over the last three trading days. So today, maybe we sell the news. Today, we're off by some six-tenths of a percent, but all eyes really on one key player. Yeah, like your chart is showing that actually, you know, we'd be kind of lower, wiggling around throughout the early session. NVIDIA has taken a significant leg lower this Thursday. It's now off 2%.

2:30The reporting is crystal clear from Bloomberg. According to sources, China's government will approve some Chinese tech companies taking H200s. The sources are giving details on which companies, but the crystal clear line is, has to be commercial use, cannot be military, cannot be some government, cannot be state-backed enterprise. Let's get out to Washington, DC and Bloomberg senior tech editor Mike Shepard. There's a lot of specifics in this reporting. Give us those specifics, what we know about the companies involved and also the volumes, because that's going to matter to the stock. Well, the volumes are a little bit unclear as far as what the Chinese government would approve.

3:14But we already are getting some signals, according to our reporting, that companies like ByteDance and Baidu would be interested in buying up to 200 ,000 NVIDIA H200 chips each once those approvals go through. Now, it's unclear whether China, the authorities in Beijing, will allow those kinds of quantities right away into the market. And Ed, it's important to remember also that, look, there are restrictions still in place here from the U.S. Even with President Donald Trump's verbal blessing for this, we still need to see licenses emitted by the Commerce Department. That process is still underway.

3:49Jensen Wang, in your interview with him the other day, indicated that he was optimistic that those would go through. And likewise, this would affect AMD, which also has chips that it is hoping to get into China as well. Look, for NVIDIA, this is a big win if it all goes through, as we are outlining in this report. China is the world's biggest semiconductor market, and Jensen Wang has identified it as a$50 billion opportunity for the company. And the timing is crucial. They are facing intensifying competition from rivals inside China, including CameraCon and SMIC, which are making strides in the development of their own homegrown semiconductors.

4:29And we have also seen signals from authorities in Beijing that they would like local companies to start favoring domestic alternatives to NVIDIA over whatever might be coming from the U.S.

4:44Mike Shepard, as always, thank you so much from Washington. We're going to stick with the theme of AI. Of course we are. But this time we're going to look at it from a valuation perspective, Ed. Because Anthropic, the latest news that it's out looking and raising some$10 billion, it's before that raise valued, therefore, at$350 billion. We know OpenAI is out there also raising funds. Could be as whopping as$750 billion. All of this is we are potentially these companies coming to the public markets as well. I've been speaking to some of the investors backing this round. $10 billion,$350 billion valuation.

5:14they don't have the scale that open ai has right but they've gone after the enterprise and the way that one investor put it to me is there are four players right now open ai xai anthropic and google there's probably only room in the real world for three but it's interesting to see them continue and just how sophisticated they are when it comes to the coding side of the equation that really seems to have been where they've made their mark but also they're trying to say that they are what the safer, more focused on ethics in some ways. They split off from OpenAI to remember. That's what their origin story is.

5:47And in your interview with Hemantanage, you're getting a lot of credit for that coding piece as well. Another big story of the morning, and it's a jostling for position once again. We're looking at the market cap of Google or Alphabet, the parent of Google, rising above Apple. What did I just say? In this world order, four players right now, Alphabet and Google have really accelerated. in recent months both literally from a stock performance perspective but also just i guess by news flow and reputation and apple it's a different game right um but uh yeah this is one that i didn't see coming last year or at least as you know at any point that tpu story that tpu story just changed everything didn't it in the vertical integration okay coming up humanoid robotics takes shape right here at ces we're going to discuss the future of physical ai with jan lipart founder and CEO of OpenMind.

6:39That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

6:49Here at CES, physical AI is breaking through to the mainstream with humanoid robotics taking center stage. Joining us is Jan Lippard, founder and CEO of OpenMind, a startup building and operating system designed to connect, coordinate and scale intelligence across all thinking machines there are so many things to take away from being here this week let's i think focus on the humanoid robot form factor at least but your main impression with those on display i think atlas is probably top of mind for many last night when i was here with boston dynamics ceo robot plater the wait to go and see atlas was two hours what do you make of that well just a few years ago the robots here were kind of janky.

7:33They were wobbly and they had wires coming out of their head and they looked like science experiments. And it's really fascinating to see just how quickly humanoids are turning into a real product. And Atlas is, of course, just one of those. So instead of them being science experiments, they look like real things that you might want to have in your home or in your workplace. You're also a professor at Stanford and, you know, the academic discussion here, which I've loved, it has been, hey guys, we think we've solved the software problem. Have we solved the software problem? Well, when people talk about humanoids, everyone has a different picture of what the humanoid is going to do.

8:21If you're talking about a humanoid for a hospital, that's a totally different situation compared to a humanoid flipping hamburgers or teaching kids math. So it really depends on... Does it come to a point where moving a box from one part of the table to the other part of the table is no longer impressive? Yeah, that's completely solved. And Amazon has 1.1 million robots deployed already. So the logistics pick and place is effectively solved. One frontier is what you might call social robotics. So these are the robots that will live with you and they will teach your kids and they will help your parents.

8:57And that is still more difficult because there's a lot of what we expect when we interact with people, their ability to make us laugh and speak and be quick and so forth. That is still difficult, but basics like picking things up, that's solved. When we think about the solution of integration, a lot of companies want to talk about how they're the vertically integrated company. They are making not just the hardware, but the software too. So where are you getting an in? How many of these 14 humanoids we see here at CES, are you putting your open software to work in? Well, it's about half of them.

9:31And for many humanoid robotics companies, they have a traditional focus on hardware. And they're seeing the software move extremely quickly. And some of them have the sense that they don't have the inherent capability to also be at the frontier of the software and that's where we're getting traction for us. I want to go back to the very thesis of whether you want a humanoid at all. Boston Dynamics perspective is in the interim before we have manufacturing units that are purpose-built for robots a humanoid makes sense because it has to work side along humans and and augment them or at least replace them.

10:09Eventually maybe that's not the form factor we want. I don't think I want a form factor of humanoid in my home to be perfectly frank. You're seeing a lot more of these sort of soft, cuddly toys for companionship and the way that they talk. What will robots look like in the future? Well, I have a humanoid at home and my kids... Casual. Casual. And my humanoid, my kids, thinks that is totally normal. Because for them, they've seen that for literally two years now. And however, when I talked to my mom, I sent my mom some videos of the humanoids here. What do you call your humanoid? Iris. Iris? You built it yourself?

10:48No, this is hardware developed by someone else. Of course, it's running the software I wrote, which is why I trust it, because I know exactly what's going on inside the humanoid. But, yeah, I sent my mom some videos of the humanoids around here, and she said, Yanni, I'm shocked. This is awesome. So, to your original point, what is the right form factor? What's special about a humanoid is that they're, by definition, compatible with your home, a hospital, school, workplace, door handles, light switches, stairs. So they can immediately be effective in all the infrastructure that humans have built for us.

11:29This is why it's important to get as far as you can be an objective take on the state of industry. We started this segment by saying it's broken through to the mainstream. Actually, there is a lot of fatigue, just like there was with Robotaxi. We've been saying it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. What I see is in the industrial use cases, it's there. But one thing that came up with us a lot this week, care of the elderly. Are we really in a position where overnight, humanoid robots are going to solve what is a massive addressable market? Well, to some people, this sounds dystopian and creepy.

12:03You know, is it something you imagined that your parents would interact with robots? But some of the companies building robots for memory care facilities like Andromeda in San Francisco and Australia, the stories they tell are heartbreaking, where nurses now have to clean the head of the humanoid every evening because the patients will kiss the humanoid. so the nurses now have to remove lipstick off the head of the humanoid and so for many people that are starved of human interaction they get so attached to the humanoid and their eyes light up and they laugh and they will kiss the head of the humanoid and so there's definitely something there and for most people in retirement homes here in the u.s they haven't been visited by their family members in a year or more so it's a group of people that are really starved for any kind of interaction and some of them really seem to love the technology.

13:07I mean Jan that speaks to a greater problem in humanity writ large. I want your take if I dare go back to Open Mind itself. Where do you make your money? Ah well we have a little bit of a different take on humanoids. We don't want them to be closed. We don't want them to be these magic boxes that show up at your front door, we think of them much more like cell phones that are open and where developers everywhere can add apps or skills that will allow your humanoids to do many more things very quickly. And so it's very important to us that this technology is not like this magic black box, but it's something that most of us understand, can engage with and build for.

13:50Yeah, great catching up with you. Thank you for spending some time. Thank you so much. Jan Lippart, founder and CEO of OpenMind. Sticking with robots, well, Ed got to sit down with Boston Dynamics CEO Robert Plater to discuss the company's latest iteration of a humanoid robot, that's Atlas, designed to work in Hyundai's manufacturing plant starting in 2028, including a factory in Savannah, Georgia. Take a listen. By 2028, Hyundai's going to build us a purpose-built factory designed for mass manufacture of our humanoids. And that's going to have a capacity of between 10 ,000 and 30 ,000 units per year.

14:22And so that's the goal. By 2030, we'll be building tens of thousands of robots per year. I've always wanted to ask you, and I'm going to ask you, your analysis and impressions of Tesla's Optimus program and your assessment of what they're doing and what they've done. Well, I think they're a very serious competitor. They've done a lot of very impressive work. They also have the advantages we have that they have a consumer in Tesla to use those robots internally. Yeah. And I think I think it really requires both aspects. You need the technology from robotics and AI. You also need that that customer and that consumer.

15:03And so automotive is a natural fit. And so I think Tesla is actually very well placed to succeed here as well. That was Boston Dynamics CEO Robert Platon coming up here on the show next. Xreal revamps its AR glasses as the wearable space is seeing more competition. We speak with Xreal CEO. See you soon. That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech. I'm Barry Ritholtz, inviting you to join me for the Masters in Business podcast. Every week, we bring you fascinating conversations with the people who shape markets, investing, and business. CEOs, fund managers, billionaires, Nobel laureates, traders, analysts, economists, everybody that affects what's going on in the market, whether you own stocks, bonds, real estate commodities, crypto, you really need to hear these conversations.

15:58Sometimes it's behaviorists like Dick Thaler or Bob Schiller. Sometimes it's fund managers like Peter Lynch, Bill Miller, Ray Dalio. Sometimes it's authors, Michael Lewis, author of The Big Short and Moneyball. Regardless of the conversation, these are the folks that move markets each week. That's the Masters in Business podcast with me, Barry Ritholtz. Listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

16:35AI will bring a renaissance to the field of music. That's according to Grammy-winning artist Will.I.Am, also the founder and CEO of FYI.AI. Bloomberg Tech's Tom McKinney sat down with him for this week's episode of Bloomberg Tech Europe, taking a deep dive into how AI is shaking up the music industry and the streaming business model. Listen to this. It's a renaissance. The same way the renaissance, you know, catapulted, you know, dimensionalized the creative industry in the past, the renaissance, this new renaissance would do it for this era that we're in. so it's it's the age of the hyper creative

17:22you're gonna catch that episode of bloomberg tech europe this friday here on bloomberg television 8 30 a.m in london that's 3 30 in the morning on you in the east coast but it's worth getting up trust me caro what's up meanwhile let's pivot to the world of smart eyewear because we're talking with Xreal. They've just unveiled new entry-level AR glasses that come at a cheaper price point. Dubbed the 1S, the new glasses boast a 1 ,200p resolution with a new price of$449. Xreal CEO Jizu is here with us now. Congratulations on the unveil, but we've got some news I want to hit first. Sure. You've been getting some financing, we understand.

17:59You're raising money to be able to put out these new glasses at a cheaper price point. I agree, yes. It's getting heated up for the whole race, right? And you know, it's getting exciting as well for the whole industry to really see glasses can really be the next competing platform paired with AI. You know, I think at some point it can truly replace the software we're using today. Going back to the financing. Yeah. Raised about a hundred million. Able to disclose what valuation, who's backing you? So, okay. I would say at this moment, it's mainly supply chain partners and some key vendors. You know, at this moment, there's not more information I can share, but definitely later.

18:34But$100 million is accurate? Yes. I think there's been an academic debate to be had here. I've used that phrase a lot, but is glasses the right form factor? The Razer CEO is actually on the program. Okay. Talking about how headphones might be the better form factor in AI world. You know, you have options in the wearables category. Yep. Is he right, wrong? Well, okay. So I just met him actually a couple of days ago. So we talk about this one. Do you have the argument? We talk a little bit about that. But for me, you know, from my perspective, I do think glasses is the ultimate conform factor. You know, when we see how we actually involve going from the big screen to your laptop, to your cell phone, the screen is getting closer and closer.

19:19And what is even closer than your cell phone? It's probably going to be this display right in front of your eyes. Right. And also, in my opinion, with a combination of AI, you can actually have an AI assistant see in your eye, see what you see, feel and hear what you hear 24-7. If that is actually available, I do believe there's no other advantage. You can compete with the glasses. Meta's going to step further, right? And now put the display in. Worries you? Doesn't worry you? No, no. I think it's a great competition. You know, Meta definitely have a lot of advantages. You know, they have a lot of investment, great talent, and they start really, really early.

20:00Right. But still, I think this is big enough market. And still, I don't really see the form factor kind of converge. So this is open race for everybody. I'm just excited, you know, to be part of that journey. Well, the people we're waiting for the unveil from is Google. How are you working alongside Google? How is your relationship deepening? How is Project Aura? Okay, that's a great question. this week we just announced that we're deepening the partnership with multi-year extension and also name Xreal being the lead hardware partner with Google on Android XR and this is really great exciting moments.

20:33I think maybe it's not just one company going to do everything together. Maybe it's kind of combination. The hardware and software collaboration at some point. And Xreal, we are really good at building optical modules, building chips and Google, they're really good at building AI, building operating system. So I think, you know, this is a win-win situation for us to team up together to kind of polish the end-to-end hardware and software ecosystem experiences together. So do you think it'll almost be like a cell phone world in that you have the Google Pixel, but you also have Samsung with the Android operating system and a myriad of others using Android.

21:07So is it going to be Google with their own hardware and their own, and then, or you're going to be the hardware partner of choice and then be some others out there as well? Absolutely. If you remember early on, actually, Google partner with HTC, at the very beginning to define the whole smartphone industry, alongside with Apple. And then they start rolling out to LG, to Samsung, and then they have their own pixels, right? So it's going to be an ecosystem play. We're just, you know, we're just feeling lucky. We got picked by Google so we can work together, being the pioneer to drive this industry forward.

21:38When? When Project Aura Glasses come to the real world? 26. It's going to be this year. What does the rollout look like? Well, that's something I cannot share at this moment. But you will go to market. You'll say they're ready. This is what they look like. This is what they cost. And it will be available? Of course. You know, when the time is ready, we'll release those kind of information. There are some other things that you're battling with your latest generation existing X-Real glasses, right? Absolutely. Sleeker, lower price. Price is so important. But you are going up against a market where we have Vision Pro and other similar products.

22:14and then we question immersion and field of view. That's right. What's your response to those questions? People start to think about, you know, maybe for Apple Vision Pro, it is great experience, but the question and challenge is, you know, it is too expensive. It is too heavy, right? So how can we, can we come up with something, you know, lighter, more affordable, like, but we can deliver like 80 % of that kind of experience. And that's where, you know, Xero Glass is coming about. And especially if we had the latest generation 1S, right? We further kind of bump up the features. Some of the very unique feature we say is 2D to 3D lifetime conversion.

22:50We're using our own chip to do this AI conversion in real time. And it's amazing. Any kind of content coming with the glasses, whether it's a cell phone, handheld gaming devices, your laptop, it can turn into 3D in real time. Let's talk about how you've got the price point down. Yes. Is it because you're making your own chip? Is it a supply chain navigation? or are you just taking a hit from a profit margin perspective? No, we just, you know, we spend a lot of effort optimizing this whole supply chain. You know, better yield rate, you know, higher volume. I was kind of going to help to bring the cost down.

23:22Is it coming from China? Part of that, yes. And is that a risk, an issue, given the national security concerns here in the United States? That's a great question. You know, we do have this kind of global supply chain strategy as well. It can be China. It can be other parts of China. It can be even in the U.S. in some day. Just very, very quickly. Yes. This CES, you've had a lot of foot traffic. Yes. Just reflect on that really quick. Well, you know, people like glasses and they like to experience. Actually, even though we've been talking about glasses for so long, there's still a lot of people, they haven't really tried on any glasses.

23:54So I think this is still a long kind of education process. Thanks, Real CEO. Chizu, great to have you back on Bloomberg Tech here at CES. Thank you so much. Coming up, we're going to speak with Jacob Helberg, U.S. State Department Undersecretary for Economic Affairs, to discuss the state of chip export curves. The sources say China is now ready to approve imports of some NVIDIA H200 chips. The big story from Bloomberg this Thursday. It is halftime. We are in Las Vegas. This is CES. And this is Bloomberg Tech.