Emory Jones on Jay-Z, Paper Planes, Roc Nation, & Building Culture

0:00To me, it's three universal languages in the world. You use sports and fashion. I've always used fashion as my communicator. I don't want to tell them to do some lunch. And they like, oh, sh**. And then by the time someone realized who I was, it's too late. I had a shopping habit back then. I remember Jay was like, man, we should have to use shopping rehab. Before I knew and understand what God was, he knew what Nike was. Being creative and designing and all, that's fun. But life to me is team sports. You know, I thought I was helping. I probably brought more pain, you know, than help. Yeah. In the long run, I was like, man, I'm going to get you a Puma deal.

0:38And he's like, man, they ain't going to get no skinny tattoo game, man. I was like, watch. I've lost a lot of people, but not always been as close in a relationship the way we had. Still to this day, they good at what they do. I'm good at what I'm doing. But if we feeling each other even more, we're going to go back and be like, oh, we can go change the world. What's up, everybody? And welcome to a special boardroom talks. Today, I'm sitting with a very old friend of mine, somebody that if you don't know, you need to know, a cultural architect, the co-founder of Paper Planes, the man behind so many incredible moments at Puma over the last decade plus, and someone I haven't caught up with in a while.

1:20So this is a pleasure. Please welcome Emery Vegas Jones. What's up, brother? How you doing, brother? I'm chilling, man. It's a blessing to be here to see you, man. It's like, it's just, you know, when we get each other, it's always a smile. Always, bro. It's always a smile. Even on a bad day, it's a smile. I've watched, obviously, as a fan and a friend, the moves you make. And I admire them, I bet, more than others because I'm very thoughtful and intentional. And I take my time and I pace myself in how I move in business and now in life. But it's something that I noticed about you early on and really admire, but also question.

1:59I remember asking you like, man, go like you could be doing all this with paper planes. You could be doing all this with Puma. And you'd be like, bro, I see the play. I see the move that almost like Jedi mindset that you have. Was that something that has been developed through all of your experience in life? or do you remember as a kid always being like the one that spotted everything and saw everything? Yeah, it's been life. You got to figure, you know, for me, coming from a small town, I had to navigate different early because if I didn't navigate the way I did, I would have been stuck, you know what I mean?

2:36Because where we from, you know, being from a town that's 13 ,000 people a day, most people don't get out. Most people don't even know how to get out and don't know what to do. For me, I started dreaming early. So navigating family in the streets and understanding that, you know, I'm far from perfect, but I know I'm walking and walking out the house every single day honorable. I got to pace myself. Yeah. You know me? Because most of the people you're dealing with don't think the same way, not walking in the room with the same mindset. So it's like, oh, I got to really think for the next person as I'm moving.

3:13You grew up in Maryland. Yes. So it's a small town. You weren't in BMO. No. It's a small town, Cambridge, Maryland. A lot of history. Harriet Tubman. This little town in the history books and it's talked about in different ways. It's like, oh, we kind of special here, right? You know, because it's funny because growing up on the Eastern Shore in this small town, think about family unions. Half your cousin's from D.C., half of them from Baltimore. They don't get along. And then you come to me, I'm the country boy, right? So they're like, man, you're the country boy. So it's like you got to navigate all that before you even walk off the porch.

3:52You think people in Cambridge see you in some ways as that figure? Yes. I mean, when you look at it, even when I was in it, right, I think that's what made me grow up later even more once I got older because even when I was in it, I was everybody's idol. You know what I mean? like you looked up to me because you know where we from you look up to those guys but uh i did have a conscious was though a lot of those young guys i wouldn't allow to do certain things you know it's like now i think that's why i don't talk much because i gotta lead i gotta show i gotta let the work show i gotta let the progress show and i think seeing that more people understand me even more than than the you know the shiny things they think they see they like nah he's really walking down that process.

4:42You really live in that process. You know, when we think about educating someone, we always think it's about giving them the information. I think my job has been, how can I help that information come out of them so they can use it? I love being the one to go into any room and balance it. Because if you balance the room, I think everybody in the room get to really show why they're in the room, right? Like, if we're in the room, like, we don't want waste no space right yeah so if you got a room and you really core right in the room because i ain't just running around right people in the room for a reason so it's like if i can come in and help balance the room i think we get the best out of everybody in the room i know that personality right it's rare it's rare and that's why people want you in the room and they also know that if they're close to you they can probably get the real read later on yeah because think about it Most are going to come in, you know, already think they know what it is, you know.

5:38And it's all from, you know, it's not always from a bad place. Sometimes it's from a great place, right? But they still don't understand you until they really get to sit and talk to you and be around you. Then they're like, oh, shit. Style and fashion. Like, there's always a kid in your crew in any world where they just get it. They know how shit fits. They know what matches and what goes together. You'll put on a pair of sneakers and everyone's like, what? I don't even understand. I never even thought about wearing that color with this. Did you have that from jump? From jump. Think about it. Style has been my navigator.

6:16Like, to me, it's three universal languages in the world that will bring us all together to have a conversation and an understanding without anything. It don't matter. White, black, young, old, it don't matter. And that's, to me, it's music, sports, and fashion. But when I look at fashion, I don't look at fashion through brands and that. I look at it through style because you still got to put it on and live it, right? So I've always used fashion as my communicator. Think about it. I'm the country boy first. I'm going to stay fresh. So when you pull up and you see me fresh, you already like, oh, who's that?

6:49You don't even ask questions about where he's from, what he do. You're like, who that? Right? So I've always used that. Like you said, it's not about the brands, but your presentation and your style and how you put it together. And each one is unique to yourself. It is very important in business and in life how you show up. And I feel like people don't really realize that enough. And there's so much that you deduce from seeing somebody from the beginning based on how they've walked in the room. And again, it's not about how much money you spent on your look. It's just how you present yourself in general.

7:24I live life through basics, you know what I mean? Like feeling. Before we do anything, I'm going to start with feeling, right? We're going to get the business. We're going to sign the contract. We're going to do whatever. But I'm on that feeling because I need you to feel me before we even get there. Being creative and designing and all, that's fun. I do that in my sleep, you know what I mean? But it's that feeling part that's more important than the design, more important than the deal. So it's like, okay, if we can walk in and we can understand that, you know what? Man, the business is going to get done because if I'm sitting across from a partner, they good at what they do.

8:05I'm good at what I'm doing. But if we feeling each other even more, we're going to go back and be like, oh, we can go change the world. There's so much noise in the world. So it's like, you know what? The only thing I can do is be the best Emery walking into every room. I wake up every day. It's like, yo, I'm going to be the best me. Life to me is team sports. You know what I mean? Your job is to be the best you every time you walk in the office. When it's time to shoot your shot, shoot your shot. If the shot ain't open, you can't handle it. Pass the ball, block. You know what I mean? Rebound.

8:36And if you want more minutes, earn them. Earn them. If you don't, if you're on the sideline on the thing, help the team stay up. You know what I mean? If I got to go get the water today, I'm going to go get the water. It's team. Like, life is team sports. So it's like, for me, I just navigate with that mindset through life. A lot of people that don't know you just assume you're from New York, right? Beyond just your relationship with Jay, but just like you got New York that exudes off you have that thing, right? You had to earn that, right? You had to earn that. You had to earn that, right? Were you like, damn, when you realized like, okay, I move like this, I walk in rooms like this, I got an instinct on how to dress.

9:14Like, what is this shit happening in New York? Because at that point, hip hop is really living. It's all living there. So how did you find yourself, like, in New York and basically becoming an adopted son of New York? Well, you know, New York was all about coming for all the wrong reasons at first, right? Just to get here, right? But for me, it was always about the aesthetic and style and grace that New York gave. It's like, you know, we walk outside and you see that grit, bread drop, right? But then you see nothing but beauty flowing through it. Like, you're getting the best of both worlds. You know how everybody right now, when they're building out brands, is like high-low.

9:55At the same time, it's like New York represents high-low. Yeah. That's what New York— In every way. In every way, right? So for me, you know, watching, you know, rap grow and fashion and, you know, I fell in love with Gucci back then. And it's like, Uji was my, like, just watching and studying. And when Tom Ford came, like, I was just a student. You know what I mean? And my thing was, nah, I got to get to New York and just be able to live it and feel that, you know, I can always go back fresh. You know what I'm saying? I can get that all, but it was just that texture of what New York did. And for me, it was just like, you know what, I need that in my life.

10:33It was like, I'm taking a chance to go. I'm taking a chance just for that. Once I got here, it was like, oh, yeah, this is why New York is New York. Because I needed New York as a chapter in my life to make Emory become Emory even more. And I understood that then and I embraced it. You know what I mean? Like, I love where I'm from. I stand on where I'm from. But to have this layer of New York, too, was just a blessing for me. You know, you talk about how, like, you've always had this ability to move in the pace that you move. Do you think part of you at that age started hustling because you really wanted to be fresh?

11:10You know, you want to be able to treat yourself and do all those things you've seen that you never had before. It starts there. But I came from a place where, though, you know, I was raised by my mom. She made me the man I am. So I still took accountability. How can I help out? You know, I thought I was helping. I probably brought more pain, you know, than help in the long run. But I thought I was. but I was conscious enough to know, you know, even when I was getting some money and all that, that I didn't let that get the best of me. Like, it wasn't, that didn't control me. It did help lifestyle, you know, because for me, I was bad back then.

11:47I had, like, I had a shopping habit back then. Like, I remember Jay was like, man, we said to you shop and rehab. You know, we talking, well, it's 89, 90. I was intrigued, man. Like, design, texture, like, it wasn't even just about the brand. It was about materials and all those things and just being able to take something and be creative with it and just go in your closet and be like, you know what? I'm going to come like, he's like, man, you ain't been nowhere, but it felt like you've been shopping every day. Like, no, it's just fun. You end up going away for 10 years. Was there a way for you to make sure you still were that guy at some point?

12:23When I got there, I didn't, I took a break from that because most people judge you from that. So, you know, when you walk in an environment like that, I don't want people to, you know, know me because of what they think. Right. I want you to get to know me. So half the time when I would go certain places, I didn't I didn't get a haircut. I didn't none of that. I would. And then by the time someone realized who I was, it's too late. Like you just showed me your true colors. You know, I mean, because most people is a lot of people, you know, get in and never leave the streets. I didn't want to be in the streets right there.

13:03I'm in a bad situation, but I've seen life changing. So I was able to look at what was going on in the world. I was like, oh, I got opportunity in front of me. You know what I mean? I'm like, I know what to do with the opportunity once I get back, but I got to get back. Like, I can't think about what I'm going to do when I get home and I'm just in a bid and I got 10 more to go. I seen so many people get lost on what's going on in the world. and half the time it didn't help them, it took them down. Like it drained them. It was like, nah, I'm happy for everything going on. And it was like, oh, I'm getting to be a student even more because I'm seeing what's going on.

13:39So now I'm like, okay, this might be an opportunity over here. What can I do over here? How can I use my skills in a certain way? And when you got out, that's when I met you. I remember I met you at Roc Nation and it was instantly that we connected, man. And it's funny because it felt like within a week, it felt like I knew you 10 years already. And you just sat there and dropped dimes. And I was at a point in my life, right? And it happens for a reason always, because, you know, ultimately that ended up being a major inflection point that time in my life, not just my career, my life. And you gave me so much game and I was watching you.

14:17It was almost like you were at the ultimate pace right then. Right. Like you were moving so slow because it was like, damn, I appreciate this opportunity for freedom now. I'm not about to make the wrong move basically ever again. That pace that you moved at, I think everybody instantly within Roc Nation realized that they were around something special. It was like a really it was hard to explain like that moment. when you started like getting your feet wet and started figuring out your moves you knew obviously you wanted to get in to this game yeah right I think for me I was blessed in that moment when I came my brother Jay he was like what you really want to do and fashion was always my thing and he was like so you know Rockerware was there and I was like yo let me go it's declining but let me go see how I can bring something to the team.

15:14And he's like, okay, we're going to put you into merchandise. And at that moment, I didn't really know what merchandise meant. I just knew merchandising from stores. And then when I realized merchandise was the most important person in the building, like everything had to run through that lens. You know what I mean? So it really gave me a chance to learn everything from marketing to sales to design to production. It just gave me the room to do all that. And I was like, okay. But at that moment, I was in my pace because after doing that time, I was like, I can't be in a rush. You got to figure, I'm on five years paper.

15:54So everything was on five-year goals, right? I'm like, let me figure out how to navigate to get to five years, to get off this paper, to get to the next chapter, right? And since then, everything has been five-year goals because you can put a five-year goal up and might, this one five-year, you might do it in one year. You might do it in three. But I'm giving myself that grace to be able to stay. I don't need to be in a rush. And I just used it to my advantage going through that because I'm like, okay, I'm in school again. I get to learn everything. I get to navigate, be around all these people.

16:28I get to sit and talk with you. We talk about things, get on the road, like you said, do certain things, back in the office. So it was like, you know what, I'm going to use this as a moment as re-entry back in, but then also go to school in real time to figure out what's Emory Jones' next play. Yeah. You knew how successful Jay was, but was it a little bit of a mindf**k when you got out? Like, goddamn, this is really a different level than I thought. Absolutely. I'm not going to sit here and act like that day we woke up and we knew we was going to win, But I'm like, realizing that and understanding that made me pace even more.

17:11How can I be a better me to be a better person for the team? It was good for me because there's so many things that happened. I remember being back at the OWA office when my homies came and, you know, I'm catching a bus. But I'm catching a bus coming from Edgewater. And my homeboys were like, man, you guys, they came to see me one day. All new cars outside. My man threw me the keys, 600 Benz, told me that's yours. And I was like, nah, I threw the keys right back. I'm like, nah, I'm good. They was trying to give you starter minutes right away, and you were like, I'm not trying to start yet. And I'll be somewhere I ain't got no Benz Ben.

17:47Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to be somewhere I ain't got no Benz Ben just because I got this new car here and I want to go show this new car off, right? You know where that goes. That's a spiral. There's going to be some good to it, but there's going to be some bad because I'm a real one. So, you know, for me, I think my currency is showing up more than anything. You can watch me do whatever, but when I show up in human form and really let people feel me and get a chance to know me and give those words, that's the number one currency for me. So how does Paper Planes come about? Because that was like, I remember when we all saw the hats the first time and the logo.

18:27It was like, okay. This is Emery's first, like, he took the paintbrush out. I count my blessings the way they are. And I think for Jay having a vision and the patience to be like, you know what? We in this building, we got real partners. And everybody's like, how do we keep this up and everything else? So you steady trying to keep the shit afloat from what's there. And it's like, for me, I just kept telling everybody, it was like, it ain't the brand, it's the brand fatigue. You know what I mean? Like, when you do urban brands, it's like, you know, the life of it is just what it is. It's just we move on.

19:04And I was just more or less like, brand fatigue, so what's next for us? At the end of the day, Jay was 10 steps ahead. You know what I mean? I'm like, no way we can catch that overnight. Yeah. Right? Me and Jay back and forth and team came and it was just like it just fell in our lap. And it was like, OK, we see it. We know it. But like anything else, you still got to add context to it and build it. Right. And I think it was perfect because no one understood at that moment because we're so stuck on what was already there and how to fix that. And it was like, OK, like you say, I can pull this brush out and I got a blank canvas.

19:43So with the blank canvas, I can start to paint for you to see how I look at things in a way. I still needed the team to understand the importance of walking this down, not being in a rush to figure out that sales is the thing. And it's like, it gave me the opportunity to be like, oh, we get a chance to build a new foundation on top of what we got. So we just add layers to that building is there, right? The definition of paper planes had a meaning to all of you guys, right? Yeah, because growing up, paper planes was, you could be from wherever. That was those things, you know, we made and we mentally, you know, flied away and dreamed.

20:23So it was all about dreaming, you know what I mean? Like that plane, you can be in the projects and make that plane and throw it out the window and that plane will have you thinking I can make it to Paris and I can make it to, you know, wherever. So it was all about, you know, building that dream up and nurturing you to continue to dream, continue to believe, right? And when we threw the flag on it, the flag was just representing culture. Black flag just represent, that's just who we are. It's culture. You ain't no color on that. It's like you get a pair of Timberlands, right? It's work boots.

20:54And you pull them out of the box and never tie them up. That's what we do, right? So it was our moment of just the culture on that flag to make them merge together, right? Because coming from where I come from, yes, I was a dreamer, but I was never taught that I was going to ever get on a plane. Yeah. I wasn't taught that I was going to make it to New York. You know, we was taught, you know, finish school, graduate, get a job. Get a job. Paper Planes back then helped me dream. And I think that's the beauty of the brand itself because it's so many layers still on. It ain't about no clothes. It has nothing to do about selling no clothes.

21:32It's all about a feeling. That's why we named the hat crowns from the door. Like, we want you to feel important that you got this crown on. That's why we went through that phase was you only could get it if we gave it to you. We could have sold a million hats then. The rollout of the hat was flawless. Because when you saw somebody, especially outside of New York, if you ran into somebody with the hat, you'd be thinking, damn, who the fuck they know? Exactly. Who the fuck did they know? Exactly. Exactly. So you've been doing that concurrently with your relationship with Puma. I first met the Puma people.

22:05You remember that day? Yeah. You had a meeting. it was the first time meet and Puma was really going to sit down from a creative standpoint and he was like yo I want you to go on a meeting with me right then on the other side of that Puma couldn't make different shoes so they had the custom sneaker company as second part of the meeting so they can make custom sneakers for their clients right but no one knew our own part of the sneaker company we didn't come in that world knowing those things You was like, yo, my guys are like, I'm here to meet with Puma. I said, okay. And then you was like, come in and meet.

22:44And from that day, you know, you was like, I'm sitting there just giving the information the way I see it. Being a team player, I'm like, how can I help Meek and Puma at the same time understand each other so we can get the best out of this, right? From that day alone, started the conversation with tearing them from then, right? And remember, even after that, I don't want to tell him to do Solange because I told him, I'm like, if you go get this talent, this really navigating what culture look like and living it, you're going to have a better chance to get to the next step. Yeah. I remember you said to them, you said to them, everybody you want is watching what she's wearing.

23:29Every celebrity they were thinking about signing is watching what Solange is wearing. Yes. The relationship bubbled from there. You know what I mean? Because I took on the challenge. I was like, you know what? Opportunity. I came home and I watched how sneaker companies had kids thinking that you're only cool if you wore certain brands. And that didn't sit well with me. You'll make regular kids feel like they can't be someone else or they can't be in this room or I can't shop in there. So I took that challenge of like, I'm not going to wear the main brands. And I say that in the sense of to this day, you know.

24:05if it wasn't for Nike and understanding what Nike meant and how Nike stepped in the world in my life and watching how they went towards things I wouldn't be loving sneakers the way I love them now. Nike was just like to me when I tell people all the time we was doing the KD thing and remember we put the three truths I mean the storyline was the three truths you know what I mean and then you know me telling people like before I knew and understand what God was besides mom we knew what Nike was. Nike was that, you know what I mean? So I'm not wearing Nike and Jordan not because I don't love them.

24:40I'm like, it's my favorite brands. But it was like I got to challenge the system of let's get back the sneakers. Yeah. And what's your role with Puma today? Still, because I'm still doing, you know, wear a bunch of hats, man. Like when someone give you your first shot. Yeah, you're with them. Come on, man. Like, you know. I feel you. There was somebody, you know, I had left Roc Nation at this point, but I obviously watched you and I watched when you and Nipsey got very close in a relationship that Nipsey and Puma was starting to have. I think the beauty of Nip, the human, he was such a people's person that believed in us.

25:21And when I say us, it is not just white, black, just people. He looked at the world through that lens of how to inspire each other every single day, even dealing with what he's dealing with. Because I remember that day when we was talking, I was like, man, I'm going to get you a Puma deal. And he's like, man, they ain't going to get no skinny tattoo gangbang. I was like, watch. You know what I mean? Like, trust me, watch. And the reason why it was easy because even at that moment, he understood partnerships. I've been around Jay. So Jay is a whole other level of just what it is. And to be blessed to live that and can have that every single day.