For Mark Jackson, Christmas Day at Madison Square Garden Still Hits Different

0:00It's not even close who the greatest Nick of all time. It's disrespect to name anybody else. You expect to be coaching again soon? I expect to. They'll understand the work that was done by me and my staff and that incredible franchise. Talent level is far superior today. Now the players back then were smarter, but certainly today, they're faster, more athletic, more versatile. Now the question is, do you hang the banner up? You know, New Yorkers, you don't hang up that banner. What's up everybody? And welcome to Boardroom Talks Holiday Edition. Today we have the most special guest that I could ever have.

0:33My favorite basketball player of all time. And he knows that. I know more about his career than he knows. So please, without further ado, welcome New York City legend, my friend Mark Jackson. Appreciate it, bro. What's up, man? I wish I could say you was lying that you knew more than me, but that's the absolute truth. It's scary, right? It's very scary. It's been scary. It's been scary. I understand it now. If we weren't friends, it was bordering on sounding a bit insane, right? Initially, I started to contemplate blocking your phone calls. I was worried. I worked my whole life for that number.

1:05If you had blocked me, that would have been heartbreaking. This is a holiday edition, so we're going to talk first a little bit about Christmas Day games. And I bet you, again, I remember more than you remember, but you played in two, you coached in one, and you commentated a few. Do you remember the two you played in? Detroit, and then what was the second one? Oh, Toronto, right? Yeah. I do remember those, especially the Detroit one because, you know, obviously that special team and great history and playing against legends was quite memorable, and especially on Christmas. And that was your rookie year, right?

1:38Yeah, I believe so. Yes, it was my rookie year. No, it was, bro. Playing Isaiah Thomas and obviously Joe Dumas and that great Piston team. Do you remember what that felt like and just the magnitude of it? And was it a different vibe in the Garden? The vibe in the Garden is always on 10. Yeah. But when you talk about Christmas and you talk about a legendary team that you're facing with legendary historic players, it has a special kick to it. And for me growing up in New York City, I can remember going to St. John's and then going to a Nick Pistons game and standing in a tunnel watching Isaiah Thomas warm up.

2:11And when he finished warming up, he walked towards the tunnel. I didn't know him. He stopped and I'm sitting there nervous like Isaiah Thomas and he goes, Mark Jackson, I love your game, man. He started talking to me. I'm like, this is unbelievable. I got tears in my eyes thinking about, and here I am, you know, a year later, two years later, in Madison Square Garden on Christmas Day, playing against this guy that I absolutely idolized. It was incredible. Feels like two of you have had a good mutual, like, respectful relationship throughout. This is the funny thing about him. Like, John Stalley, who I grew up with, one day we were playing against the Pistons, and John Stalley joined a free throw.

2:48He's like, what's up with you and Isaiah? I'm like, what you mean? He's like, he can't stand you. What? But it was the competitive Isaiah Thomas that couldn't stand me. It wasn't Isaiah Thomas, you know, obviously the respect we had as professionals, but he had an edge to him and something that you respected. But he is, I don't think he gets enough credit as not just an all-time great point guard, forget about that, one of the all-time great players in that red room. Without question. It feels like the dream team snubbed for whatever reason, like switched the narrative a bit. but he really is in that like elite top tier.

3:20You never hear him mentioned in people's top 10, 20 lists. And how do you explain him not being on the dream team? I mean, there's no explanation for it. He was that great of a player and it's unfortunate that he doesn't have that on his resume. Yeah, without question. Christmas Day games in itself are just a spectacle. A Christmas Day game at the Garden, there's really nothing like it. I think only a playoff game or game seven at the Garden might be bigger than that. For people that don't know, you were drafted out to St. John's, you came into camp, you won the starting job, I think, at game three.

3:51And all of a sudden there was a buzz about the Knicks. Rick Pitino was the coach, Ewing was having an incredible year, you and Patrick had great synergy. I think I've told you this before, but I do it once a year. I go meet Pat Riley for a coffee or a bite. And without fail, I ask him once again, how could you have traded Mark after the year you had? And he continues to deflect that to check it a bit. Was it impossible not to continue to think what if throughout your career at all? Yeah, it was impossible because we took the Bulls to Game 7 and we were a loaded basketball team. Toughness, edge, confidence.

4:23We earned the right to come back. I can remember Pat Riley one day talking to me and he said if he had to do it again, he wouldn't have done it. And what about Patrick? Is this something you guys talk about? Well, always because I mean, I humbly submit, I was the one guard that he had that, you know, delivered the ball the way he wanted at all times and we had great chemistry. I don't even think it's close. And I say this with great respect, like you, I grew up a Knick fan. So I know Earl Monroe, Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, David DeBuscher, Bill Bradley, Dick Barnett, Dean Manjie. I know all of those guys.

4:54It's not even close who the greatest Knick of all time is. Patrick Ewing is the all-time leading scorer, rebounder, blocked shots, games played, minutes played, playoff points. Whatever you want to look at, he's the all-time leader. It's disrespect to name anybody else. And the fact that he left it in between those lines, like nobody other than that, I don't think he gets enough credit. And it's great to see him back working for the Knicks and embraced by this fan base that he deserves it and they deserve it. And what about Steph? You coached one game with the Warriors on Christmas Day versus the Clippers.

5:28Was the feeling similar, like, relative to what a coach feels going into a game where that excitement of coaching on Christmas Day, like, was obvious? Steph Curry in his early stages, you know, the consensus was he was the second best point guard on the floor behind Chris Paul. Yeah. But to embrace the challenge and steal the heart of every NBA fan, it was great to watch it in its early stages. Listen, it's complicated, obviously. We've talked about it on a personal level, and I think the whole basketball community talks about it. There's so many people still to this day, if you read comments about the Warriors, that mention, like, let's not forget the kind of framework of this organization that Mark helped build.

6:14When you see Steph being who he is today, and even Draymond and Clay, the career he had, you must take some pride in seeing how they've evolved into these legendary players. You definitely take pride, but you take pride in the fact that they put the work in. that you watch them early on, you saw something, but they did it the right way. The best comment that I could possibly get is from the guy that is one of the greatest coaches, not just basketball, but in history of sports, and Steve Kerr. When he acknowledges the work that was done prior to him getting there, that means everything. An historic run, and I'm truly honored to have played a small part in it.

6:52When you think back to what's been important for you your entire career and your life, it's always been family and then basketball. And I always wonder when you think about these Christmas Day games, I mean, obviously everyone wants to play. Having the holidays and wanting your family around when you play on Christmas or in the road, how complicated does that get? And how do you start to then find time to have that moment with your family? It's very complicated. And it's not just the players, it's coaches, it's owners, it's league office, I mean, it's television. Everybody is sacrificing and you can say, well, you're making a lot of money.

7:25What does that really mean? and I say that with great humility, it's not about the money because you're losing valuable time. I wanted to play on Christmas. You know, you look at the Christmas Day slate and you're like, are we playing? You know, and you got disappointed if you wasn't. You realize that the league is putting a stamp on you, saying you're one of those teams. You have one of those guys. It's a special privilege to play on Christmas Day, but it's a sacrifice, but a sacrifice that everybody understands and everybody has embraced. Do you miss commentating? Absolutely. Do you, Mike Breen and Jeff Van Gundy, have a group chat or anything like that?

7:59We do have a group chat, but we also have individual chats. We understand that we were fortunate enough for 15 plus years to document history and have a front row seat. You miss coaching, commentating more you think? I would say coaching. And the reason why I would say that because I'm commentating what's taking place on the court. When I'm coaching, I'm impacting lives and I'm making a difference and I'm giving birth to something that I may not be able to be part of it when it's over with, but I'm able to identify and say, not just look at Steph Curry, the four-time champ. No, look at Steph Curry, the man, the husband, the father.

8:36I take pride in that. There are certain guys that I'm 60 years old, I still call coach, and I'll never call him Rick Pitino. That's Coach Pitino to me. Rick Pitino is the best coach I ever played for, and I say that with respect. I don't play 17 years. I don't win rookie of the year. I don't go to an all-star game. I don't have any of those things if Rick Pitino's not the first coach I ever played for. The dude had me believing I was better than Magic Johnson. I'm on the court believing I'm Magic. I know I'm not better than Magic Johnson, but if you put me on the lie detector test, I would have passed it because he instilled something in me that I'll forever be grateful.

9:12And what it did, it didn't just propel me in my 17-year career. I attempted to do the same thing as a coach, coaching Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Draymond Green, David Lee. I attempted to do the same thing. Now what you don't want to do is, you don't want to lie. So Rick Pitino wasn't lying, he was triddling the truth. When I said Steph Curry and Klay Thompson are the greatest shooters of all time, I believe that. I absolutely believe that. And what it did is propelled something in them and birthed something in them that they ran with it. And you do that individually and collectively and you wind up with something that is absolutely historic.

9:48Have you lowered expectations about coaching again, just because of how screwed up this process has been and how unfair it's been to you? I don't lower expectations at all. You expect to be coaching again soon? I expect somebody will want to win or want to change their culture so bad that they'll understand the work that was done by me and my staff and that incredible franchise and give me a chance. And that's on any level. I'd coach college. I'd coach pros. It doesn't matter. I love the idea of leading and impacting and changing and winning. How good is this Oklahoma City team? Great. I mean, they got seven dudes as defensive stoppers.

10:25Seven guys that embrace on the defensive end that want to take the challenge. They do interviews at the end of the games. Whoever is the main guy, everybody else behind them. Like, I don't mind. And if it's Shea's not the main guy getting interviewed, he's one of the Jacksons in the background, you know, Tito. He's fine with being Tito that night. They are fun to watch, and they're here to stay. They had a loss, though, to the Spurs in the NBA Cup, and they play again on Christmas Day. Do you envision the Thunder making sure that they remind everyone who they are when San Antonio comes to town on Christmas Day?

10:58I envision the attempt to do that. I'm not going to minimize how good the San Antonio Spurs are and thinking it's going to be a cakewalk. I think those two teams, like they said, when they face each other in the in-season tournament, they're going to be around battling each other for years to come. And Cleveland goes to the Garden on Christmas Day, so obviously that'll be electric. How do you like this Knicks team right now? I like them a lot. And I like the fact that they have great depth. Like even in winning the Emirates Cup, when you look at the lineup that got it done, they stumbled onto that lineup and they stuck with guys.

11:33Those are tough decisions to make when you're closing out a ball game. Do I go back to my main guys? Do I keep guys in? You know, to Mike Brown's credit, he made the tough decision and they won. I love the energy in the city. Now, the question is, do you hang the banner up? Which is, you know, New Yorkers, you don't hang up that banner. But it's a heck of an accomplishment. And I think what you want to do when you're changing a culture or you're trying to win a championship is get little small victories. And that's a small victory building onto the season. You can throw away like it doesn't matter whether we win or lose this.

12:08They took pride in winning that. And I truly believe when you win it, you celebrate it, move on to the next challenge. They have a legitimate chance. And I think the Christmas Day game against Cleveland is going to be very good because Cleveland is a team that's underachieving when you're based on what they were able to do last year. Yeah. But still a dangerous team. And I think they will have to see each other moving forward as the season progresses and come playoff time. And I think you make statements every time you see teams like that. So it'll be interesting to see that challenge on both fronts come Christmas.

12:39Mavs go to Golden State. I interviewed Draymond a few weeks back, and he's still unwavering in his confidence that they've got another one in them potentially. I'm sure you'd like to see those guys win another one, but do you think it's realistic to think that the Warriors have another championship in Steph's kind of like final three, four, five, whatever it is, years in this league? I never count them out when you have Steph Curry, but I think something has to change. as a fan, looking at the way that they play today. I don't look at them as a championship favorite or a championship contender today.

13:19By the time, you know, April comes, May comes, June comes, I gotta know who I'm going down the stretch with in the games. And I haven't identified that with the Golden State Warriors. And it's not a Steve Kerr problem. He's trying to search for answers and try to get to that unit. The concern is when you're running out of time trying to get to that unit. So the matchup I'm most excited for on Christmas this is Lakers, Rockets. You know, I'm starting to realize that like, this could be potentially one of the last times you see Kevin and LeBron go up against each other and they've had some memorable matchups.

13:53What do you think about that rivalry and just the two of them in general and what they meant to the game? I've seen a lot of basketball my entire life. I've seen the greats that's in that rare room. Kevin Durant and LeBron James are in that room. They're in that special room. And it's fun to get another opportunity on Christmas to see them again. I like the fact that when they play against each other, majority of times they're defending each other. Which we don't get to see much of that in the league. Yep. And the last one is T-Wolves in Denver. Is Jokic continue to like blow your mind on just how incredible he is?

14:30And he's clearly now a historic great without question. Yeah, he's climbing the charts on the all-time great list. You look at him and you're playing, and you look at the stat sheet and you're like, this guy has what? Mm-hmm. And he does it every single night. He's playing at his own pace, with his own style, and it's truly poetry in motion. When you think about the greatest players and the greatest centers, you thought that it was a lock, five best centers or the six best centers. He's not in the discussion, he's in the group. Yeah. He's in the group and confidently in the group and moving guys out that we thought would never be moved out.

15:09When you talk about who's the best in the world, to me, he's got to be number one because of what he does on a nightly basis. The interesting thing about his game, and no one would understand this as much as you, being that you are an assist man and that you are sixth all time in assists. Let me add, if you came out of retirement and just got two, you will move right back to five. Steve Nash has won more than you. Yeah, you don't have to remind me. I know. Do you remember where you had your assist to become second all-time and who you gave the ball to? No. For real? No. Mo' Pete. Mo' Pete, baby.

15:43Mo' Pete. Yeah. Wow. So, jump shot, home game, Toronto, Mo' Pete. That's funny. And it's funny that you know that and I don't know that, but I played with a guy that every time he scored, he'd say 20 ,371. Next sign down, 20 ,374. I'm like, what is that? He's like, a career point. I'm like, this dude knew his career points up to him. Who is that? I'm not going to say. Come on. Tell me what team. I can't say. If I tell you the team, you'll know how many guys have 20 plus houses. That's true. That's probably Reggie. No, it wasn't Reggie. It wasn't Reggie. Think about the best facilitators in the game today.

16:19If I asked you this 20 years ago, you would answer with all point guards. So, going back to Jokic, he very well may be one of the top two or three facilitators in the game. So who else do you see out there, whether it's a point guard or another player that you kind of take extra special kind of affection to because of the kind of player you were and how focused you were on the assist? I would say Joker is number one. Another guy I would say is Luca. Gets his 34, 35, 33, but he gets his 10 assists. And another guy that obviously is hurt right now, but Tyrese Halliburton, who embraces playing with great pace, embraces getting off the basketball, embraces getting guys involved, can impact the game by scoring 30 or getting 15 assists.

17:07Those are three guys that I really respect, the way they facilitate and orchestrate the teams and put them in position to win on a nightly basis. This is old school basketball. I'd probably say James, too. Doesn't get enough credit. When you're talking about James Harden, you're talking about all-time list. Do you put him on the point guard list or the two guard list? Whatever list you put him on, he's high on the charts. He truly doesn't get enough credit. You think about it. Guys, we designed defenses against James Harden that teams never played before to try to disrupt what he was able to do.

17:39And the last one I'd probably say is Cate Cunningham. While he's a different size and breed of player, there's parts of his game that look like they would have been in the 80s and 90s basketball. the pace that he moves in, just the way he uses his body, and he clearly is a facilitator as well. Another guy I'd say is Trae Young. Doesn't get enough credit. Always identifying him as a, you know, whatever you want to say. He's a 25 and 10 dude that embraces the bright lights and is an underrated passer and scorer. So the league is in a great place. All right, so you've coached, you've played, you've commentated on Christmas Day.

18:17You're doing none of those this year. Where were you kicked back and watched those games? Sitting on the couch, my favorite spot. Just watch the games, celebrating, embracing life, and watching the great sports on that day that I was fortunate enough for so long to play a role in. Mark, you know we could talk for three hours, bro, but let me let you get out of here. Appreciate you, man. Always a pleasure to talk to you. I say you're the king of the assists, bro. That's what I'm going to say, man. New York legend. This is Rich Kleinman listening to Boardroom. Download, subscribe, check out boardroom.tv.

18:57My man, Mark Jackson. We'll see you all soon. Thanks.