How CC and Amber Sabathia Built Their Family Into A Baseball Powerhouse | Out of Office

0:00You were reluctant to go to New York. I never wanted to come here. I tried everything I could to not come. I was calling all around trying not to come to New York. I felt like you don't get any grace with the media. And then, you know, Gene A-Rod had their thing going on in the clubhouse. I was like, I don't want to be no part of that. It ended up being the best decision we made 15 years later.

0:30what's up everybody and welcome to another boardroom out of office my first out of office on the roof of our building in chelsea new york city and today i have two very special guests and two very good friends of mine a lot of people refer to them as the first couple of baseball i'm rocking with it. I think it's an incredible title. Please welcome to the show, Cece and Amber Sabathia. Guys, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here. Do you get interviewed a lot together? Not as much. It's one or the other. I don't, yeah, I don't know when the last time we got interviewed together.

1:05Yeah, it's been a long time. Like, it's usually the family. It's never just us doing like a, yeah. All right, well, it's a little couples therapy. I appreciate you putting my name first, because it's always Amber and Cece and not Cece and Amber. So ladies and gentlemen, Amber and CeCe Sabathia. We are one. It doesn't even matter. We are one. Yeah. So when you hear like jokes aside the first couple of baseball, because I actually, when we reached out to you guys, I was like, just came to me that it obviously is what people see you as. I think, especially in America, do you feel pride in hearing something like that?

1:39Is it weird for you guys? Super weird. Super weird. I hate it. But I love that you see us like that. I think there's so many people in the game that came before us that paved the way of why we're here today and can kind of rock with that title. But there's so many people in the game that kind of have helped us get to where we are. So I don't want to take any shine from anybody else. Yeah. And for me, I look at couples like, you know, Billy and Hank Aaron and, you know, Jackie and Rachel Robinson. And then those who we try to model our relationship and our business in baseball after. So, yeah, we love, I mean, it's a great compliment, but it is super weird for us to hear that because there are so many different, you know, bigger couples that, you know, came before us.

2:25But, I mean, you know, we'll take it. I see it as this thing where in a lot of ways it's like it's not up to anybody, including you guys, and I'll explain to almost say that it's almost like the game is saying that the sport is saying that a bit because I didn't even know Hank Aaron's wife's name you know I'm saying and I didn't know Jackie Robinson's wife's name obviously what they did for the game and what they did for society is well documented but I think there is something magical about the two of you and it's something that I think because people do love baseball right like if someone said to me MLB is going away I'd be like, what are you talking?

3:03Hell no. But I don't watch games. Right. So it's like we still hold the sport in this special place. And I think that's why people have kind of looked to you guys as like, all right, well, we know Amber and Cece, right? Because like the familiarity with players across the board is not that great. And you've been out of the game for a while. You're working as an agent and so many other things. But people still see you guys in a lot of ways as the face of baseball. Do you see that as some of your responsibility when you first retired? Did you think about how people see you and how important the game was to so many people for you to try to carry that on?

3:40You know, honestly, I didn't. And I didn't know what I was going to do in retirement. You know, I knew I still wanted to be around the game. I didn't know how important the game was to me. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't know how much I loved the game. I knew that she wanted to become an agent. I knew my son was going to be on this journey. But I thought like once I retired, like I'm done with baseball. Like I lived that life. But no, I'm a baseball lifer. Like it's in my blood. Like I love being around the stadium. I love working at Central Baseball and having a hand in what goes on kind of day to day with the league.

4:11Like we're a baseball family. And for the longest time, I think I tried to fight that. But now just getting into the second half of my life, it kind of is who we are. Yeah, I mean, I feel the whole reason I became an agent isn't because, I mean, we were blessed with his career that financially I didn't have to work, right? So that's the number one question I get all the time. Why are you an agent? You don't have to be. Well, Beyonce doesn't have to go on tour, but yet she does, right? Like when it's your passion and your purpose and you're good at it, and I'm really good at what I do, that I knew that this is what our purpose was.

4:46So for CeCe mentoring the next generation and helping them on the field, for me, I love mentoring and helping them off the field. And together is a dynamic duo. Did you have this plan for yourself throughout his time in the league and through your relationship that post-career this was something you could do? Or did you know you were good from the role you played in CeCe's life? Yeah. And actually, CeCe's the one who brought it up to me. I really wanted to work in philanthropy and help athletes with their nonprofits and how to not start a 501c3 because not every athlete is equipped to start a 501c3.

5:24But how so many want to go back to their hometowns and give back. And I told Cece I'm going to start before he even retired. I started working with Aaron Judge and DeeDee and Aaron Hicks and, you know, working with other athletes and helping there with with their philanthropic endeavors. And I told Cece that and he goes, you know what? Like, you rocked with me definitely towards the end of my career. He's like, you would be an amazing agent. He was like, and of course, I was like, no one's gonna, like, you're CeCe's wife. And I just started looking into it and I realized, yes, I could be really good at this.

5:57And he's really the one who put the battery in my back and pushed me to do it. You know, I actually refer to him as Amber's husband. A lot of people do that. I do that now. So you talk about, like, the why. So the why was building up for you. Are you guys, and I know the answer to this, but how different do you guys feel like you are now from when you first met and started dating in high school? Oh, we grew up together. So we're totally different than when we first met in high school. Yeah. But together we were able to grow up. So we were able to go through so many different things, especially in his career, because the game is a roller coaster.

6:33It's so many ups and downs on the field and personally. and we were able to get through that together and grow up together. So I think where we are now are two totally different people, but we respect each other enough to continue in our lives together. Yeah. I have a question. It's personal. I hope you guys are okay answering. I've been married for 20 years this November 1st, and it's just tough. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. Do you think it's like something that goes too much without being said, how tough that balance is as a professional athlete and having a relationship that's endured.

7:06And obviously, like every relationship, you go through ups and downs. Was it actually just super hard being that you were a professional athlete and on the road? Did it make it so much more difficult? No, the road didn't make it difficult. No, I think just marriage is hard in general. You know what I mean? I don't think the road made it harder than it would have been if I was home all the time. I don't think the career makes marriage hard. I think it's the person. It's the respect you have for each other. It's getting through things with each other and supporting each other to get through those things I mean, I just like we pretty but we argue all the time like It's a daily thing where we're like Bickering back and forth, but we are best friends.

7:46We're like we laugh really hard together every day, too You know I'm saying so it's a it's a good balance of you know being able to live with my best friend She is the only person knows she knows me like that. I can be around for like A week? A week straight and not get tired up. Like, you know, I can't go on a trip with Peckons for more than three days. You know what I'm saying? Like, something about like, All his close friends. She's the only person I can be with, like, every single day and not get tired up. That's amazing. That might, yeah. And I know that too. Did you take the game home? Were you one of those athletes?

8:19No, I wasn't. I wasn't. Once it was done, because I had kids so early and so young in my life that once the game was over, once we crossed the bridge, it was over for me. So like I came out of the game, my kids didn't care if I threw a no hitter, but I gave up seven runs like his dad's home and it's time to hang out. So that was always a great balance for me. If I didn't have my family the way I competed, it would have been too much for me, especially with the drinking and everything. Like I would have been taking everything home a lot more than I did. But I mean, we get in the car, I'll be pissed.

8:49And then soon as we cross the bridge, it's like I got to let it go. And you started your career started pre social media, which is big because I was watching that show Winning Time. They canceled it. And there was a scene where like the Lakers had just gone down 3-1 to the Celtics and they were having like a family dinner. And the father was like, you know what it is. Now you're home. It's family time. Don't worry about your work. And I was like, I wonder if that was like the expectation in yesteryear, back in the day. To being able to separate it. To really separate it. Whereas now like, you know, it's pretty much impossible.

9:20And I'm sure you see it with your young athletes. It's like it's probably way harder to not take the game home unless you don't have your phone in your head. Unless you don't have social media because somebody's going to tweet at you. Somebody's going to you post a picture. You're going to dinner after a bad game. Somebody's going to say you should have made this shot. You should have hit. You got this hit or made this pitch. So, yeah, I mean, I would imagine it has to be harder to be an athlete now because everybody's, you know, in your face. and wants to know what you're doing behind the scenes and, you know, want to know what you're eating for dinner after a game.

9:52Like, where when I was a kid, I mean, I didn't care what Michael Jordan was eating. You know what I mean? Like, I got to see him on NBC or maybe, you know, inside basketball with Amal Rashad, and that was it. Like, there was nothing else. Like, I didn't know he played golf or any of these things. Like, now you know so much about your favorite player that, you know, it makes it hard to kind of separate work from, you know, your personal life. So your son is like a prospect, is somebody that is attacking the game, has a special gift. Does the title you think of first family of baseball, whether it's like real or not, help him?

10:29Does it hurt him? Does it worry you guys? It's just all part of being a Sabathia. And I think he's extremely humble. He takes it. He knows he has to make a name for himself. He strives. I mean, he's a hitter. He's not a pitcher for that purpose. He didn't want to always be compared to his dad. And I do think it's harder for him. But I also think it's going to help him a lot as well in his career, having that legacy of the Sabathia name. So, you know, it's turned into truly like a family business for us. You know what I mean? Like baseball is our business. Whether it's CeCe, me, our son, our youngest son that's coming up young, it's our business.

11:05And I think all our kids know that, and they wear it on their sleeve. Like they're proud of it, but they're also very humbled by it. Do your girls like this for it and play softball? No. No? They don't. They love to travel and like the lifestyle of the big leagues, but they didn't really like it. Yeah, no, they're dancers, musical theater. Our oldest daughter's a senior this year. She's going to college. She's looking at NYU and Emerson. And so they all have their own path, for sure. But like they couldn't even tell you like what team plays in Detroit. You know what I mean? Like my girls, they just like, it's not that serious for them.

11:37Do you have a hard time speaking to him as parents and separating it from an agent and, you know, a future Hall of Famer? Not me. Me and him have a great relationship. And it's because I never coached him. So I never, like, was, I mean, I'm invested, super invested, because he's my kid, and, you know, I want him to do great, and I think he's going to do great. But I'm not, like, analyzing his swing or breaking down different things. Like, so it's more of, like, a conversation we get to have about baseball. And now that he's older, it's, like, great conversation. It's like a conversation I would have with like some of my teammates now.

12:11You know what I mean? Like talking about the game or talking about his at-bats. Like we got a chance to go to Martin's Vineyard this summer and be with him and actually watch him play. And like after every game I'm sitting down with him, you know, breaking down at-bats and just getting a chance to really talk about the game. Because we didn't have that time because when he was growing up, I was out playing, you know. So I didn't get a chance to really break down the game with him. So now it's like having like a little buddy to talk to the game about. So it's fun. That's probably like your last few years in the league, the young guys in the locker room and the clubhouse giving you that energy.

12:41Yeah, for sure. And I think like for him, he'll be closer to Aaron Judge or Aaron Hicks, you know, because he grew up coming in clubhouse when those guys were young. So by the time he gets to the big leagues, he'll have those relationships with those guys. What's the process and trajectory for a young baseball player now? Is it the same blueprint? Do you have to go through the system? You can get drafted at a high score. Has it changed a bit? Oh, it's changed. There's many different paths you can take, but the end goal is always MLB and it's hard to explain to these younger guys when you ask the relationship him and I have it's more advisor and mom and I can never take the mom away I mean mom's always gonna be there but there's NIL deals now and it's me calling him and you know saying you should really do this NIL deal and he's like I don't want to do it you know and having to divide okay as a mom you don't want to do it but as your advisor I'm telling you should you need to do it and yeah you could now get drafted out of high school, you can get drafted out of college.

13:35You could be third year eligible, two year eligible. There's so many different paths that you could take. You can go to a JC and just go for one year and then re-enter the draft. But the end game for all these guys is MLB. Yeah. And do you have to go through like because I always felt like in terms of young people wanting to play the game, it's still one of the first sports that young people are put in front of them. Soccer, baseball. And then it seems like at least in New York, these kids, the good athletes end up like slowly transitioning and phasing out and then one of the things i've heard is just like the allure of being in the nba or the allure of being in the nfl and how big it feels and how instant it feels whereas like in baseball you take these years before you make money is that been something you think that's hurt like young people's connection with the game yeah i think so i think this generation um because of like the instant gratification of like when you get drafted you know in the NBA out of high school when it was out of high school you're going to the NBA I got drafted out you know I'm saying like I drafted out of high school when I went to Burlington North Carolina like nobody saw me for two years so yes it's different when um you know when you don't go instantly to the NFL or to you know the big TV I think you know just understanding now like us getting older understanding the path that I took out of high school is a lot harder than I actually realized coming out of high school.

14:59I think for me and getting a chance to see my son's path, I think for me, going to college is the best way. Being able to mature, get older, come out and be ready as physically and mentally to play baseball because baseball is based on failure. If you succeed three out of ten times, you're a Hall of Famer. So it's all about failure. So you have to learn how to lose. And I think the older you get, you can accept that a little better and it's easier to be a professional. And was minor league life beneficial to the growth? Like, it feels very antiquated. Yeah, it's tough, man. I mean, you lived a minor league life.

15:36It's a tough life. And you got to develop, and you got to realize these major league teams have players, and they're not just, you know, they're coming from different other countries now that you're competing with. So these young college kids have to know how hard it is to actually get there and just, you know, and stay focused. I think I got lucky because I was in the Cleveland organization where they didn't have a lot of pitching. And I kind of like developed, you know, a little faster than they thought. And they were just kind of moving me up the line. So I think, you know, a year and a half after a year, I got drafted after a year and a half, I was in the big leagues.

16:06But that's not a normal path. It was just something that, you know, it kind of worked out for me. I read something that like you read Hunter Green of the Reds. And I read a conversation or something that was had between the two of you about the value potentially of playing in a smaller market. as like you look at your whole career. Did you see that firsthand with your guys' experience in Cleveland and CeCe in Cleveland? Everything I tell my guys that I rep, like, I'm not going to tell you how to pitch, and I'm not going to tell you, you know, what we could do on your fastball, but I could tell you from my experience of things that I've done that I lived through that I know.

16:40And, you know, a lot of the guys are like, look, like, look at CeCe. You know, why not? You got the playbook. You know, so they're like, you know, they take my advice and they really take it to heart. and Hunter felt like that was great advice that I gave him. You know, starting in a small market, proving yourself, growing with that team, and, you know, you become a free agent and we see where you go from there. But it's hard to develop as a young player in these markets. Like, think about the young players that came here and, like, did great. Derek Jeter, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's so – because the Yankees – Name another one.

17:12That's what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's their 20-year – it's a 20-year gap in between young players that can develop here in New York in any sport. Like, look at what Daniel Jones is going through right now. Like, you have to win here. So, and if you ain't putting up Zach Wilson, you know what I'm saying? Like, if he was in a different market, maybe he had a chance to, like, develop and actually, I mean, you never, you know what I'm saying? You never know. Like, when you come here, you have to win. And when you're young and you're trying to find your footing in the league, it's really hard, man, if you don't have a good team around you or, you know, you're not in a good organization.

17:44So, I felt like, you know, starting in a smaller market for me, letting you make mistakes, figure out, you know, how to grow up and be a professional, all these different things. And then coming to a place like here, Boston, Philly, L.A. was a better path for somebody like me. You were reluctant to go to New York. I never wanted to come here. That blew my mind. Nah, I tried everything I could to not come. I was calling all around trying not to come to New York. So Cashman shows up on your couch at your house. Yeah, it was just a bunch of, you know, you know, coming here to New York, like I said, like, you have to win right away.

18:15I felt like you don't get any grace with the media. And then, you know, Jeet and A-Rod had their thing going on in the clubhouse. I was like, I don't want to be no part of that. And then Cash came to our house during free agency and kind of convinced us and was like, you know, I'm so convinced that you guys would like it here that we'll give you an opt-out after three years. And I was like, you know, we can do three years in New York. And it ended up being the best decision we made 15 years later. Did you want New York at the time? I wanted to go wherever he wanted to go, but I wasn't scared of New York.

18:47And the one thing I said to him is I said, you want to go play for a team that wants you and New York wants you. Yeah, she was the one that convinced me to cut because I was like, I still wasn't convinced. And she was like, you got to go somewhere where they want you. Like the Yankees want you. I know you don't want to go there, but they want you. So they'll make it work. It's so wild because like somebody when we were prepping for this interview was like, they're from New York, right? And I was like, God, they're from the West Coast. But by the way, I say all the time, like we were born in California and Vallejo raised us, but New York made us.

19:16Yeah. And I feel like New York had a huge part of why we're sitting here today. Do the years in Cleveland still hold this incredible weight for you in terms of your career and both of your guys' time there? Yeah, three of our children were born there. It was where we really grew up together and built a family and had ups, had downs. And then when we came to New York, of course, I mean, there's still ups and downs, but we were a unit by the time we got here. Yeah, I feel like I grew from a boy to a man in Cleveland. You know, like I got there at 17, left at 28, and, you know, three kids and one a Cy Young.

19:51Only thing I didn't do there that I wanted to accomplish was win the World Series. And it was my fault. Like, it was on me. Like, I had a chance to do that and couldn't get it done. But, like, no, I mean, I still hold incredible weight. Like, I mean, we go back there and still do stuff in the community. And, you know, that's that's like home for us. What do you see for yourself in building your career right now? Because I know you work with AJ Andrews, female softball player, and that comes with a whole other other set of challenges as, you know, we invest in support women's sports and try to figure out ways to level the playing field a bit.

20:24It's a long game, though. And sadly, some of the players of today won't even benefit from some of the kind of platforms that they're creating to speak about it. And then on baseball, obviously, you have this like proprietary information that you can offer kids and you see the game from your eyes working in the league and from your own experience and you know what the game needs. So what is your goal for yourself in this role? My goal is to the clients that I have and the clients that I get in the future to help them as much as I can to be successful on and off the field. Now, I can't go on the field and do the work for them, but what I know and what I've been through in CeCe's career and in this game and the relationships that I've built, I feel like I have a level up that I could really support players.

21:11And I said to one of my guys, you know, 19 years from now, if I'm still sitting here, then I know I did my job. You know, and I was like, because once when CeCe's 19-year career and he retired and, you know, I was like, I felt like, OK, I can now move on. And Cece made the comment to somebody, I'm going to share her now. And so he's sharing me with, you know, with other clients and going back to AJ, you know, helping her just build her career outside of softball because this professional softball salary is not going to cut it. And she's such a talent that I feel like she has so much more that she can offer.

21:47So I'm excited to be part of her journey and helping her. And then same with my guys, you know, helping them off field in their career and giving them as much advice and, you know, connections and things that I've learned in the game is 20 years from now, I've done my job. Are you guys worried about the sport? In regards to just being black in baseball is also like one of the things that, you know, CeCe's very hands-on with. But in terms of the overall growth, the perception of the sport, the young kids from America, young black kids from America, and how little of them are focusing and going after baseball as a sport, I mean, if you kept this trajectory, where do you see the game in 10 years?

22:29Yeah, I mean, well, kept this trajectory after, I mean, before we made these changes to the game now where we got the pitch clock, we got the shift that's opened up the field. You know, I think this year, not I think, I know this year, we had 70 million fans come to the ballparks this year, which is the most since 2016. So, you know, the attendance is up 11%. The game's in a good spot. Like people were watching the game as far as us playing the game. That's something that's going to be a lifelong mission, I think, for me, because the way that the game is today, it's a country club sport. So somebody like me that grew up in Vallejo in the inner city, I wouldn't have had a chance to play in this field.

23:08I wouldn't have had a chance to make it in the way it is now with the perfect games and all these different things that you have to pay to get seen and pay to play. There was no way somebody like me would have been able to. I didn't even understand that. Well, because I didn't have enough money to go play in these big tournaments to get seen. And that's how it is now? Yeah, because… Yeah, everything's rankings, right? Everything is rankings. And so these big tournaments, whether it's Perfect Game or PBR, they make it easy for scouts. So they have this big tournament down in Atlanta, and all the best kids are coming there, so all the scouts will go there.

23:37So if I can't fly down from California to go to Atlanta to that tournament, I'm not getting seen. So the scouts aren't coming to those little pockets anymore to go see the players. They're just going to see the top 300 players at this tournament down here. Yeah, if you can't afford the plane ticket, the hotel, the food, and by the way, you can't pay for these kids to do it. So it's hard for them. They can't get like, you know, scholarship in and, you know, like in other sports. So it's hard for, you know, for them to get down there. So there's not going to be seen. Yeah. So, I mean, I think with the mission of the Players Alliance is to, you know, make these avenues, you know, and open these avenues back up for, you know, more players of Brown and Black descent to be able to play baseball.