How Mike Will Made-It Revolutionized Music with Beyoncé, Miley Cyrus, Future & More | Boardroom Talks

0:28We're probably over 400 songs later. What's up, everybody, and welcome to another Boardroom Talks. We are live in my office in New York City, and today we are with artists, DJ, producer, songwriter, CEO, and Grammy Award winner, Mike Williams, a.k.a. Mike Will. Welcome to the boardroom, brother. That was a nice intro, man. You liked it, right? Yeah, for real. I threw the artist and DJ in, too, because you are. A couple of dollars, for sure. I never been introduced as a DJ, but I just did a DJ set last week for Boiler Room. So you're right on the money. And that was my first time messing with the CDJs.

1:09And it was cool. It was a cool vibe. See, I knew that. Word up. I do my homework, man. You the man. You know, everyone knows Atlanta now is a hotbed, but it's been a hotbed. Right. How much of the era that you grew up on, Outkast, Jermaine Dupree, et cetera, also had kind of an influence on starting to envision what your future could be. Yeah, I mean, Atlanta, see, the thing about Atlanta is like, it's always about having your own swag and everybody just, it's like 285 is like a highway that goes around the city. You know what I'm saying? Anything inside of 285 is like the city. You know what I'm saying?

1:46And outside of 285 is like Metro Atlanta. But like, just, I look at that like a pot. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like all this talent right here. Is it still this hotbed of talent where people are carving out their lane and differentiating themselves, or do you feel like the movement has gotten even stronger and is starting to almost hold the flag a bit for hip hop? I for sure feel like Atlanta's the mecca of hip hop right now. And I definitely understand that New York is the original mecca of hip hop. It's like where hip hop started, you know what I'm saying? and I feel like it's been so long that we've just been knocking at that door.

2:25Atlanta's been knocking at that door. We always had talented artists, like you said, our cast, So So Def, you know what I'm saying, Lil Jon. Like, we had so many different people knocking at that door, but it's like certain songs that I grew up on in Atlanta that you might not know or some people might not know, but like they're Atlanta classics, you know what I'm saying, and it helped shape the city. And I just feel like now is to a point where like at one point when you thought about hip hop, you know what I'm saying? When you thought about hip hop around the world like in the 90s or whatnot, you're thinking about like that New York sound.

3:00And Dre said in the 90s, man, I've got something to say. And it's like everybody was just, you know what I'm saying? Everybody was just knocking at that door, knocking at that door, knocking at that door. And you know what I'm saying? We kept getting an inch and you know what I'm saying? The paved way started getting wider and wider and it's like, I just feel like salute to all those that you know what I'm saying like that made it possible for even you know what I'm saying me and my peers. If you were talking to a layman a bit someone would probably say that you were like one of the pioneers of when trap really started to become such a predominant place in hip hop is that when that moment shifted a bit like do you feel like during that era when you started you could start seeing that that sound was becoming so defined by Lana and that sound then started defining hip hop across the country Yeah, I mean, I don't like to pat myself on the back, salute the ones that came before me, you know what I'm saying?

3:52And I was in school looking at those guys, you know what I'm saying? But I would say that, you know what I'm saying, as far as crossing it over and taking it bigger than it's ever been, you know what I'm saying? Because I was probably like 16, 17 coming onto the scene and I started working with Gucci Man. And so I'm in the studio with like the trap producers at the time was like Shoddy Red, Fat Boy, Drummer Boy, Zay. Like those were like the guys that, you know what I'm saying, that were in the studio. Like those were like the big dogs that were in the studio with Gucci at the time. You know what I'm saying?

4:34So I'm looking at that and I'm studying it. You know what I'm saying? And it definitely opened the doors. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like even like I don't consider like 23, like a trap song. But like you said, layman's terms is like if somebody hears it and they hear the 808 and everything like that, they might hear 23 and be like, oh yeah, that's a trap sound. You know what I'm saying? And of course, you know what I'm saying? That song broke barriers because, you know what I'm saying? Even with Miley rapping, she didn't want to rap. You know what I'm saying? She didn't want to rap on that song at all.

5:07She didn't want to do that song at all. But I was like, man, let's just try something new. Because I remember when Gwen started working with Dr. Dre or when she started working with Pharrell and like how cool that was and how crossover that was. And I was like, man, nobody's really done that coming out of, you know what I'm saying, coming from where I come from. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, and Miley, man, you the new wave. Like you that today. You know what I'm saying? So like, let's just try something. Cause I feel like, like we are, anybody like around my age or younger or anything like that, we are MTV babies.

5:39You know what I'm saying? We are BET babies. We are BH1 babies. So it's like we all are used to seeing so many different genres and that's what we were raised on. So my whole thing was I was trying to be like a, the guys that I was looking up to, Pharrell's and Juicy J and Lil Jon, where it was like, how do you genre bend? You know what I'm saying? How do I genre bend this but still keep my DNA and I'm not just making it straight? Like this type of record or like a pop record. What I was thinking of is like, man, yo, how can I make like, like the distorted 808 sounded so right because if you listen to rock and roll, it's like distortion was it.

6:26Like distortion was part of the art. Future man, Pluto man, you a rock star. Like you know what I'm saying? Gooch, you a rock star. Like you know what I'm saying? Change, you a rock star. Like fuck that. Like you know what I'm saying? Like the 808's gotta hit hard. We gotta be a little distorted. I want my sound to sound wrong because at this time I'm like 23. You know what I'm saying? So I wanted to sound like this dude don't really know what he's doing. But when I started, I didn't know what I was doing. All my equipment was plugged up wrong. So if you listen to the old Gucci Mane songs, you always hear air in my beat.

6:57And you'll hear like a dead air in my beats because my stuff was plugged up wrong. Nobody told me how to plug it up. You know what I'm saying? so but I was just I was able to get sound and I was able to record it in my multitrap recorder this before Pro Tools you know what I'm saying and I was able to record it in my multitrap recorder so to me I got a beat that's bounced down that I can say that I made you know what I'm saying but I was trying to figure out how did these guys stuff sound so clear and now that I know now that I know how stuff is supposed to go now that I now I can see like oh that's why your shit had that dead air on it but you know what i'm saying it's part it's part of the whole growth it's part of the whole journey so it's like it started off with the dead air and then boom it started getting more polished because we went from hardware to software that's when i started building my production team and we started going more software and then even the guys on my team like my boy p nasty he might mix a mix a record man clean as fuck like you know what i'm saying and then i'll take that same beat that he mixed so clean and put certain effects on it that I just dirty it up and make it sound distorted but sound good in big speakers.

8:04And then Pete might be like, bro, you fucking up the beat. I'm like, bro, you got to come to the big studio with me and hear how this shit sounds. You know what I'm saying? And he came to the studio with me, and then he heard how I would fuck up certain beats, and then certain artists would get on there, and then he was just hearing it like, damn, how this shit does sound hard. I felt like that was our signature. I still wanted that shit to feel like it was coming out of like a basement. You know what I'm saying? I wanted people to know that we were still in my mom's basement. Like when you say your sound and knowing how far you've come, I know for me, like as I achieve certain things professionally, I never feel any real satisfaction.

8:42And sometimes I wish I felt more, but it is motivating to just think about what that next thing is. When you look at your career at 35 years old, how would you grade yourself on where you're at right now how satisfied you are or how hungry you still are. Man, I'm still hungry. You know what I'm saying? At this point, I'm just not realizing like, man, all right, the earth is our turf at this point. You know what I'm saying? At one point when I was having that conversation with Sonny, it was like we were underground. We were trying to get heard. We were trying to get in the room. We were trying to get around artists.

9:15Now it's 300 songs later, 300 published songs later. You know what I'm saying? That's not even counting all the mixtape records. so shit we probably over 400 songs later you know i'm saying when you when you see when you see that now it's like okay man the earth is our turf the reason why i felt so right at first is because i was going against the grain so now it's like what's the new way of going against the grain now that our now that our sound has became so popular now that we're in the world of ai you know i'm saying now that they can break down how to make a trap beat in a sentence you know i'm like how do how do i do that thing that because i had tweeted this one time it's like um my favorite type of music is like i love music that confuses me i love music that makes me feel like man how the did they make that now i understand like okay you're stacking rhythm and melody on top of each other you know i'm saying that's all you're doing you know i'm saying now how do you make this rhythm and melody sound the coolest you know i'm saying and whether even if you go to an artist, an artist is either melodic or either they're rapping, you know what I'm saying?

10:21That's rhythm and that's melody. And you talked about AI, for instance, and innovating. So, you know, there's been obviously talk about another album and when you approach this album, it sounds like you're trying to think about how to kind of keep leveling up a bit. How do you approach your production style now? Has that just changed with all this knowledge you have? Do you look at AI and look at that technology and still try to keep that pure kind of raw sound, but start to think about ways you can integrate how innovation has been integrated into music. So you got two different types of creatives.

10:54You know what I'm saying? You got innovators and you got duplicators. You know what I'm saying? They're both creative. You know what I'm saying? Some people just could just duplicate shit. Some people can, you know what I'm saying? Just make new shit. I know I'm an innovator. You know what I'm saying? So like with the AI, I love the idea of AI. It's a new tool. You know what I'm saying? and I love the confusion behind it, like how people are like, what the fuck? You know what I'm saying? The disruption about it, it reminds me of back in the day, my dad took me to my first hip hop concert. It was with Bone Thugs and some more people was on there.

11:27You know what I'm saying? And I had the time of my life, you know what I'm saying? I was probably like seven, eight years old, I had the time of my life, and my dad was just in the car like, music is done. You know what I'm saying? I was like, what you mean? I'm like, man, that shit was lit. Like, what you mean? He was like, man, it wasn't an instrument on stage. It was just a dude standing up there with two CDs, and you know what I'm saying? And these dudes just rapping on a microphone. I'm like, man, that shit was hard. You know what I'm saying? And then there'll be certain times where certain people that use hardware be like, oh, you're using Fruity Loops?

12:00Man, that's cheating. It's not cheating. It's just another tool. It's just, you know what I'm saying? It's another piece of equipment. So it's like, that's really somebody just saying like, I don't know how to use this. You know what I'm saying? and it's the same thing. They're scared of it. Yeah, it's the same thing with AI. It's like, oh, you using AI? Oh, you cheating? Like, oh, da-da-da. Bro, you gotta know how to use it. If you innovative, you gotta know how to use it and do some innovative stuff. You know what I'm saying? Like, man, I might need to start rapping. I might need AI to help me write some of my raps and then doctor it up and make it my way.

12:30Like, it's different kind of ways of, you know what I'm saying, like, of using the AI. I just haven't wrapped my mind all the way around that. it's been seven years since I dropped my last project. Okay, what is this new sound? But I want people to be confused like, hey, how did he get this person on this? Or how did he come with the drum pattern like that? Or what pocket is this? Or how am I supposed to move to this? Or is this a slow tempo? Or is this a slow up? Or is this a, you know what I'm saying? So I'm just thinking about it like that. Do you ever get in a cold spell? Even if no one around you knows it, where you're just not feeling it, or you don't know if you have it that day or that month?

13:08For sure. You do? Hell yeah. Where do you think I've been at? For real. Do you question yourself? Yeah. I used to question myself as I'm trying to figure it out. Because at first it was like, man, we're just going to be against the grain. Man, this is the side we're going to do. And then once you check off all these goals, now it's like, dang, what do I do next? You know what I'm saying? And then it's like, okay, boom. You know what I'm saying? All right, here's a new list of goals. And then it's like, all right, let me check these off. and then it's like, boom, I checked off these two lists of goals, and then next thing you know, I lose my hard drives.

13:42And then, you know what I'm saying? And then my engineer said my hard drive got stolen. Then I'm like, all right, well, shit, it's all good. We got the backups. And then he like, no, the backups got stolen too. And I'm like, all right, shit. So now I'm questioning like, all right, so, I mean, I just got, I started off with nothing, you know what I'm saying, with no money. And then now I just got a lot of money, you know what I'm saying? and then I got a lot of accolades and I covered a lot of ground. All right, so maybe this is time to invest or maybe this is time to start new businesses or maybe this is time to start doing this and that.

14:15And then when I started seeing like, when I started hearing like on maybe a Spotify or a radio commercial, like how to make a trap beat and you know what I'm saying? Or a YouTube ad, you know what I'm saying? It's like they can break this down in a minute and 30 seconds. It's like, oh shit, you know what I'm saying? Like I don't want to feel like I'm in any type of race. You know what I'm saying? I always want to set the tone and keep being a trailblazer. So I will question myself on what's next. Like, man, what's next? Yeah, so you get a bit of a perspective when you take that step back. Yeah, yeah.

14:46When you take a step back, now you're looking at it like, man, hey, look, are you doing the second rhythm and melody on top of each other? Okay, boom, what's this new sound that's against the grain? You know what I'm saying? Okay, boom. And you take a step back and you start doing different things. I start hiking. You know what I'm saying? I started playing golf. I started cooking. You know what I'm saying? And then I started, like, focusing on my team. You know what I'm saying? Around me and being, like, a coach. I saw 30 Rock go diamond with Roddy Rich, and I put them together. You know what I'm saying?

15:18And then I see Shway Lee go double diamond with Post Malone. And then I see, you know what I'm saying, that I'm buying real estate. You know what I'm saying? It's just different shit. So now I look at it like, okay, you in a whole different point of life from where you started at. You know what I'm saying? Now it's like, boom, go back to that mind frame of when you had nothing and realize, you know what I'm saying? Like, man, you had nothing that you made. You were able to move these kind of mountains. Now you got, and you were using whatever tools were available, whatever you had at hand. And now it's like you got way more tools at hand.

15:55You got way more access. There's way more shit you can do. Have fun with it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's where I'm at now. So, like, now I'm past that point of doubt with myself. Hard drive's back full. You know what I'm saying? You know what I love that you said? What's that? I read that when you lost a hard drive, you had that, like, epiphany where you was like, I'm the hard drive. Yeah. And it feels like that's what you just meant when you talked about taking that step back and realizing, like, the success you have had. And when you came up, you started with no hard drive, basically.

16:26Exactly. You had done it already. You know, I find like there's certain accolades that can judge success. There's some that don't come with an accolade, but you know as a creative that you succeeded in the way you made people feel, the way you impacted. But today, it's tough to see through all that because now with TikTok and YouTube and streaming numbers, you know, success is judged in the most confusing way. I listened to this actor get interviewed like two weeks ago, and he was talking about how it's a bit of a mind fuck for him because he puts a certain thought process into making his film and getting the character.

17:04Then they judge the film on the performance at the box office. And he's like, well, hold up. That's not what I prepare for. Right. I ain't prepare for the performance at the box office. Right. So when you think about success now, right, because these streaming numbers make no sense. I always tell everyone in a boardroom, I don't even want to report on streaming numbers because I don't even know what it means. Like what are billions of streams supposed to mean to somebody? Record sales meant something to us when we were younger and we would see them charts and you could tangibly see what happened.

17:30But like, how do you judge success then for you or for one of your artists today with all those other variables in play? To me, I never cared about numbers. I never cared about none of that stuff. Like once a song is out, it's out. I done already listened to that shit. I done already streamed that motherfucker a thousand times. so it's like once it's out like to me it's just out in the world it's just for everybody to appreciate and embrace and it's crazy because not until earlier this year I never knew how many songs I produced but Spotify just did like they started doing like these lists for the producers where it's like this producer is a songwriter and then you know what I'm saying I had to show the whole catalog.

18:15And then I went to mine on Spotify and it said I produced 300 songs. I was like, damn. You know what I'm saying? But I learned, that really comes from my Uncle Jesse. He had told me when I was coming up, he told me, I remember my Uncle Jesse, he was fly. You know what I'm saying? He used to come through a Cadillac white walls. You know what I'm saying? He used to just be fresh, always fresh cut. He just always fresh. and then he had the money. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, I was a teenager and I had a couple thousand dollars on me. I'm like, look, Uncle Jesse, I'm going to catch you one day, man.

18:49Like, you know what I'm saying? You see me, man. Like, I'm stacking them on paper. He was like, man, that ain't enough, man. You know what I'm saying? I was like, what you mean? I'm like, man, I'm only 15, 16, man. This is, man, that's a couple thousand. Like, man, these folks at my school ain't got this, like, and it's legal. Like, you know what I'm saying? He like, and then he was like, you want to know why that's not enough? I was like, why? He was like, it's not enough until you lose count. And that shit stuck with me. You know what I'm saying? So from there on, like on the music stuff, I was just head down working.

19:17You know what I'm saying? I just kept it going. And then when, you know what I'm saying? I just found out the other day that Humble went 15 times platinum and DNA went nine times platinum. DNA wasn't even a single, but that shit went nine times platinum. You know what I'm saying? Gucci just went platinum off of Ransom 2. You know what I'm saying? But because I didn't do these big numbers first week or because I didn't do all that kind of stuff, I didn't even know if any of the songs off my last album did anything. I didn't know what happened. You know what I'm saying? But the label just said, hey, Gucci and my one platinum.

19:51Hey, that's cool. You know what I'm saying? That's dope. I remember when Shrimp Life 1 came out, they did like 20 ,000 first week. And then they had a couple songs out that were moving. and one of the fans had hit me on Twitter and was like, man, yo, when can we get Shroom Life 2? I was like, man, soon as Shroom Life 1 go platinum. I was just saying some shit. You know what I'm saying? So a blog picked that up and was like, oh, I guess we're never going to get a Shroom Life 2. Mike Will says we're not going to get Shroom Life 2 until Shroom Life 1 goes platinum. And Shroom Life 1 only did$20 ,000 the first week.

20:26You know what I'm saying? Sure enough, by the time we had Shroom Life 2 done, boom, Shroom Life 1 went platinum. You know what I'm saying? and it was like it was off of us pushing those songs and people appreciating these two young dudes from Tupelo that they were like yo we never knew we needed these dudes but we love these dudes I want to be around these dudes you know what I'm saying yeah and that's got to be what success is then really for you as a producer to make sure you you know that you did the best work 100 put the best work out there and then let the performance come to you later on and find out how that song did but you can't be thinking about it when you're making music 100 and another thing i learned over these last few years product supply chain i don't talk about it enough you know what i'm saying like i say i talk about this shit every day because it applies to everything and i'm like man this cheat code to this shit like it's like as long as we get the product done and we get it on the shelf cool you know i'm saying however many that how many however many units we sell like within this amount of time, it's like that don't concern me, you know what I'm saying?

21:31Because it's on the shelf. Man, look at Michael Jordan. You know what I'm saying? Michael Jordan, he know, man, when he dropped them retros, them shit's gonna sell out. Folks gonna be lined up down the street. Any shoe that he wore on the court, the folks want it. Team Jordan's, they might not sell out. They on the shelf, though. You know what I'm saying? And it's keeping the Jordan brand going. Somebody gonna take them team Jordan's and love them and appreciate them you know what I'm saying and they might start off at$120 you know what I'm saying and they might end up in TJ Maxx for 20 you know what I'm saying probably took five dollars to make you know what I'm saying boom everybody made a profit everybody good and and by the way you you can't even tell what it means anymore right like you could tell me the number and it still doesn't matter if I don't feel like I impacted people 100 % and people really felt it and that you can feel that's not a numbers thing that's not a charts thing you know when you make something that people felt.

22:26Yeah, like Edgewood is a hip hop classic. That's one of my favorite albums out the South since it came out. You know what I'm saying? I feel like ASAP Rocky told me that was top five out the South of all time. Schoolboy Q told me like man, Edgewood, like man, that's one of the best albums out the South. Peers that I respect are telling me this. So it's like man, I don't know how many streams or how many units it sold or anything like that. I know that joint is classic. I know it's timeless and I know it makes you feel a certain kind of way and I know it's not too many projects out there like that and and that's the that's the whole thing yeah and I would say that like for me too getting the respect of your peers and the people you looked up to is really the greatest definition of success right 100 % somebody I think we both look up to when I was reading up on you is Jimmy Iovine and and you know when I when I was in the music business I was always so fascinated by these brands that could be created to almost feel like a sports team, right?

23:23So people wanted to buy the merch. They wanted to go to their parties. They wanted to drink their alcohol, listen to their music. And it was the brand at the center of it all. And Jimmy was involved with so many of those, right? So when you were starting what on paper would be a producer, you know, a fronted label, and you're talking to Jimmy Iovine, what did you get from him? And the labels that we're talking about and the ones that we look up to and when you mentioned Pharrell or Dre or Timberland they had their own brand right their own brand was as important and that's different than being an artist that's different than building a business is building your brand right so you carry the flag for your brand so when you sat with Jimmy and you started kind of shaping what your drummer was going to be how did you look at the blueprint from before you and and what your strategy was going to be in terms of building your brand personally and what did Jimmy give you in terms of feedback and advice when you started.

24:20When I met with Jimmy, like, I'm playing Jimmy all the songs that are out, then I'm playing Jimmy all the songs that's about to come out, and then he's like, man, look, Mike, man, you are a producer that can make hip hop go pop, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm like, what? I'm like, how can hip hop be pop, it's pop, and then it's hip hop, he's like, nah. He was like, Dr. Dre was pop. he was like Tupac pop like you know what I'm saying like there's plenty of times that you know what I'm saying hip hop has went pop he was like man man you're that guy you know what I'm saying you're that guy that's gonna do that you know what I'm saying and you know the rest of them you know what I'm saying so man what you need to do is team up with the rest of them and y 'all keep pushing that cause at this point right now all you hear is dance stuff from pop radio you know what I'm saying your sound isn't really you know what I'm saying like But it's on the way.

25:16You know what I'm saying? It's on the way. And he was like, man, you guys sound should be running the club all over the world. You know what I'm saying? It shouldn't only be just straight dance, DJs, and different stuff like that. And then he just opened my mind up like that. It was like a light bulb went off. You know what I'm saying? And then right after that, you know, it was a big deal to be on certain places on the hip-hop charts. It was like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that was a big deal. But next thing you know, Mercy goes up the hip-hop charts, goes over there. You know what I'm saying?

25:44on Hot 100. No lie goes up the hip hop charts. Goes over there Hot 100. Turn on the lights, same thing. Bands make a dance, same thing. So then it was like, oh shit, you know what I'm saying? But when I first met Jimmy, he told me, man, you need to do a label deal. I want to do a label deal with you. First time I met him. And that was one of the goals I was on the list. And I was like, man, hell no. You know what I'm saying? Because now it's real. Now it's like, I'm sitting at Jimmy Albino house. this man telling me he want to do a label deal with me. I ain't ready for that. You know what I'm saying?

26:17I ain't want to fail, really. That's how I was looking at it. I'm like, man, I'm already having success right here. I got 13 songs on the radio. You know what I'm saying? I don't know nothing about running a record label for real, man. I'm going to just wait. So, man, it took about two years for me to actually sign it. But in the course of that, you know what I'm saying, I might be at Jimmy Alvin's house and we might be watching a fight because DJ, my manager, that's Jimmy Alvin's nephew, by the way. You know what I'm saying? So he the one who brought me to him. So we might be over there watching a fight and they might play eight or nine of my songs.