How Savannah James & April McDaniel Balance Friendship, Money, Entrepreneurship

0:00What's up, everybody? This is Rich Kleiman, and welcome to a special Boardroom's Mental Wealth, a partnership between Ally Bank and Boardroom. Today, as always, I'm with my co-host, the head of money wellness at Ally Bank, Jack Howard, and two incredible entrepreneurs and individuals building something very special. April McDaniel and Savannah James, welcome to Mental Wealth. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, y 'all. Hi. So mental wealth, it means a lot to us, but for the sake of the two of you, why don't you define mental wealth and a bit of what you do? Yeah. So mental wealth is about more than the skills of money or your net worth or your credit score.

0:45It's your relationship with money. It's about how do you use money as a tool for joy in your life today, tomorrow, and someday. So we're going to get into that today. Love that. Love that. So you guys have been friends for a long time. Yes. 15 years? Does that sound right? Yeah, longer. So talk about how a friendship and just being around you guys for a few minutes, I think anyone can tell how close you guys are. How did that start to shift into a business and what was that shift like?

1:17April McDaniel:I feel like the shift was really organic because me and Savannah's friendship is really about feeling and how things feel to us. and like, does it feel good? Does it not feel good? And if it doesn't feel good, we're not doing it. And I think just being in business together came organically, just in us trying to find joy, thinking about how to help others, and then also do what we love. So I feel like it wasn't as strategic as people think it was. No, it wasn't. And I think for me, April has not always wanted to look at herself as a mentor, But being her friend and seeing what she's created on her own was very admirable.

1:58So, you know, I'm like, well, if I'm going into business with this lady, we're going to be all right. Like, I'm picking her. Do you think that that was needed? Did it need a little bit of pushing from Savannah to kind of see what this could be?

2:12April McDaniel:Yes, we are polar opposite. I don't know how different it could get. So I think Savannah brings out the soft, like, sit back, relaxed version of myself. And I feel like a yin and yang in business is nice. And I think that that only makes me a better founder to have somebody like Savannah sitting alongside me. And Savannah, what is she to you? So if you're opposites, how does she show up for you? Just like I said before, it's more watching the strength and the assertiveness that I don't, you know, just typically on a normal. I'm just like, OK, yeah, it's great. But understanding and being a founder, there's certain decisions that need to be made in a certain way that you need to be in order to make things happen.

2:55And typically with, when you say friendship and money, a lot of different emotions can come up. So when I say that, friendship and money, what comes up for you immediately?

3:06April McDaniel:We talk about this a lot because there's two different lifestyles that exist. Like, we're not delusional to that. And I think Savannah has accommodated where I'm at. So, like, if we want to go away, I can't just be like, all right, we're going away tomorrow because I'm on a budget sometimes. A budget. Yeah. So, we're plotting and planning. Yeah. You know, we're planning out. Like, we don't just show up at Fashion Week week of. Like, we don't move like that even though people think we do. And I think accommodating, like, even if we're going on the same trip, I don't feel the need to be in first because that's not in my budget.

3:46April McDaniel:So we always laugh about it, and we actually talked about it on our pod about it. And people were very critical of her being in first and me being in business and me going up to first and getting in her bed and watching a movie. They was, like, offended. And I was like, why? I can't afford first. Savannah, so how does that, because I know with other friendships, I'm assuming, have you felt that pull of you were in first, I need to be in first, what are we doing, I'm coming with you? My friends are very respectful of my situation. Good. Okay. All of them. Like, I've never had an instance like that one time.

4:22And I think that they are, you know, if I'm like, we're going somewhere, they already understand what it is. It's no expectation of, like, taking care of something or, you know, just having me be responsible for them. It has never, ever been that. And I love what both of you said is that you had the conversation in advance. Yeah. And with a lot of friendships, that's not happening. It's the, you didn't invite me to first class. Like what you said your listeners were saying. Like you can misunderstand what's happening. And that's how you get that rift with money and your friendships because we never set the ground rules in the beginning.

4:57So that's when we talk about mental wealth, that's a big piece of it is having these tough conversations so that when we do travel, we can have a good time. And we're not one person is angry and wouldn't even know about it. Correct. I think that that is a very real thing.

5:10April McDaniel:And also just life expectations. like does everybody fly first that's ridiculous to me like someone said to me the other day like oh you're going to new york you're going commercial i said are you okay are you okay i was like commercial yes i got two kids i'm making them fly and coach and do like that's not my vibe like i just think it's so many misconceptions with social media around money and what things cost. And I'm like, yeah, no. Like, that's not reality. And I think people have gotten so accustomed to fast money that when you have to earn it, I feel like you do treat it differently. And I think it's really important for people to realize it's okay to be normal.

5:55But the reality is the person that asked you that probably is lying in their own life, right? So that's why they asked you if you were flying private. Because anybody that probably has been flying private for most of their life and has had money to that degree is not asking you which way that you're flying. But I do think that it puts a real stress on people in business in general, whether it's financial or just feeling like you're behind. I think your perspective on that is good because that could get in the way of the trajectory of your business. If you see something that you feel like you have to keep up with.

6:32April McDaniel:Correct. And I feel like watching others, even when it comes to money, is so important to worry about yourself. That's literally the life we live. We are in our own little world, and they're actually two separate worlds. You know what I mean? And then we come together and we talk about our world together, but we live in our own world. Well, it's not a bad hack to buy a coach ticket and then pull up to the first class and get in bed with your friends. Because I was in a bad life. It's not bad. Snug as a bug. Like, ma 'am, can we have some more snacks? Yeah. So the whole, like, thesis for me with Boardroom in the beginning was that I started to realize how important it was for everybody to be able to tell the story of their business.

7:15That disconnect with someone leaving a room and going, what do they do? I didn't really know what they were talking about. Would you mind walking through the kind of different levers of the business that you guys have been building?

7:25April McDaniel:Yes. So Crown & Conquer has been around for 10 years. It's in its 10th year this year, which is a creative agency. And that's how I met Rich through the years. And we not only produce events, but do creative campaigns, digital campaigns, and influencer and talent. And then— It's very expensive to hire them. Well, I don't really want to just do parties anymore. You're the cream of the crop. Then me and Savannah started Everybody's Crazy, which was our pod. And now we are fully committed to it. We're doing 50 episodes, which is... Congratulations. Insane. Yes, yes, yes. Insane. Yes, insane, but exciting.

8:09April McDaniel:And then we have Let It Break, which is a women's platform, both based in New York and L.A., around personal development. So as you're speaking about mental wealth, I think the biggest thing for us is also knowing how to navigate certain things, but the inner self. Like you can look a certain way, but, you know, I think life brings a lot of ups and downs and how can you manage them? And then three months ago, we launched Signed, which takes all of the businesses, a holding company, which takes all the businesses and puts them together just because we felt like there was an opportunity to scale both strategically and support.

8:50April McDaniel:so we felt it was a need to have more senior leadership, which goes back to knowing what you know. Like, I've worked really hard to get to where I'm at, but also I feel like I need to have a certain level of support around me to get to the next level. So for me, it was really about being with partners that could help us grow strategically, deal with business challenges, and also be an advisor on how we could navigate a landscape that, to be honest, neither of us were really familiar in. You know, like a holding company is not something we're familiar in. So building that. And then Savannah has?

9:26April McDaniel:Refrain Beauty Skin Care. Yeah, we're relaunching now in September. We've been around since May of 24. But just now trying to get the brand out there more, I realized I have to be a little bit more forward-facing, like this thing. And your skin is amazing. I was not trying to do that. Thank you. Now I do interviews and things and it's giving skin, no makeup. So I'm a walking ad. But that has been amazing. It's something I've had a passion for for a really long time. So it's been amazing to see it come to fruition and like really embed myself in that business and in that industry. It's really, really fun.

10:02I think all of them individually are impressive businesses. I was always impressed, though, with this idea of this community you were building. Yes. I think that becomes almost the most integral, if you think about it, across everything that you're doing, right? You're finding these people that are, like, truly seeking out connection and growth, but also in a lot of ways that become this, like, focus group and understanding of, like, who the two of you are and how what you're building is impacting. What have you seen from the women that have joined this community so far? And, like, what has the feedback been?

10:39April McDaniel:Change. We've seen change. We've seen like women, I mean, me and Savannah have changed so much. I think Savannah, I think we see it more with Savannah just being in the front of the light now and like a lot of the transformation she's taken. But I think when you do inner work, it makes you feel more confident about who you are and who you want to be. And instead of being afraid, you can be curious about it and grow. So I think we've seen a lot of women change, including ourselves. So I think it's not just for them because it's for us, too. Like, you only know what you know. So if you're not curious about it and you don't seek it, you'll never know.

11:19April McDaniel:You know, so I really think it is the company you keep, the people you're around. And I think it links back to Everybody's Crazy as well because people call in and they ask so many interesting questions. And it really is about community as well. Like, it's a very unique community of women that, and also a very positive community, Everybody's Crazy. You know, it's interesting with the title. You would think all of us are crazy, but we are crazy in some form or fashion. That's how me and Savannah see it. But I think leaning into really thinking about that other people are experiencing the same thing as you.

11:57April McDaniel:And I think that that is what was curious for us about this platform and what Rich is doing and mental wealth, because a lot of people are not curious about wealth. They just think it comes. And I'm like, no, it doesn't work like that. You have to explore. You have to research. And both of us talk about that, just knowing what you don't know and then who are you talking to that can help you. So it's that community that you're talking about. So I'm hearing a pull through from both of you on with one of the businesses, you have a community. Women are coming to you more than likely talking about things that they normally wouldn't.

12:31Because when you get into a space with people who make you feel safe, it creates the ability to be vulnerable. And then I'm also obsessed with the podcast because it's funny. Right. So, you know, but it's, again, giving space for people to say, actually, I don't have it all together. No. And neither do you. Neither do I. And let's talk about it. Yes. And for me, with the work that I do at Ally, it's the so many people are afraid to talk about money. They carry so much shame about money. And I've talked to people with millions and millions of dollars and people with nothing. Yes. And within that spectrum, that relationship with money is really dependent upon the person.

13:11Yes. And having these spaces where you could say, actually, I'm making the most money I've ever made in my life and I'm miserable.

13:16April McDaniel:Yes. Or I really don't aspire to have all that stuff. I'm happy with what I got. Yeah. And it's so many times where I'll tell people, hey, that's just a belief that you have. That shame you're carrying, that's just a belief. So for you with your podcast and specifically for you, Savannah, some of the things that you're hearing and what are the things that you're saying like, hey, that's just a belief. We got to shift it. what are some of the beliefs or things you've even heard within the community i mean i think a lot of it is that people don't believe that they're enough yeah to do anything as it pertains to dating or parenting or just existing they just don't believe that they're enough and where they are in their life is good and just to keep chipping away at whatever it is that you're doing in a positive manner, you're going to get there.

14:05It's okay. You're enough for where you are right now. For me, that is kind of like one of the things that I think that we hear a lot. I mean, it's a mindset, like you said. It is. And so with money and this whole thing with mental wealth, it starts with that mindset. Like if I can get you to break through your emotions and your thoughts around money, I can shift your behaviors. So what would you say are some of the beliefs that you have, even your money story, so your early beliefs about money compared to now? I think growing up with not a ton of resources and like making, like striving to make a certain amount of money at a young age

14:38April McDaniel:and coming up in the industry. I don't think I look at it as never enough per se, but I definitely feel like there's a potential it could go away, which is a myth. That's not true. If you're investing correctly, if you're doing all the things, but I just think that that is like a thing. You know, it's funny that our GM at one of our companies, I email her and be like, are we getting paid on Friday? And she said, girl, what? And I was like, are we getting paid? I'm on my last $3. She's like, what? Are you okay? I'm like, no. But I still do that. I still email her. She's like, can you put it in your calendar?

15:25April McDaniel:I'm like, no, I need you to tell me we're getting paid. I need someone to tell me I'm still getting paid. You got to come to one of my classes. Because you got to work through that belief right there of like, you in fact are getting paid. And if you didn't, I think you'd be all right. But the idea of it is so crazy to me because I was so reliant on a paycheck. Like, you know, coming up in the industry, you get a paycheck, you'd be like, hype. Like, oh, we finna do something. Like, it's like, you know, like, or I'll call Savannah. And I'll be like, oh, I like Christmas shop in October. Okay. She tries eating that.

15:58April McDaniel:So she'll be like, ooh, Christmas. I'm like, I want a budget. I got to get my holiday gifts. I got to get it together. But I'm still very old school like that. Like, what if I don't come to work? Am I going to get paid? I live with a similar fear about money. Yes. But I think that what that's done to me is it's made me super hungry in business. Yes. But at times, unaware of my own value. Correct. Do you guys think that as you've started to build this business that you've had to almost like re-educate yourself on what your value is? 1 ,000%. What? 1 ,000%. How has that showed up? I think for me it's showed up in the fact that like I have never held a regular job.

16:42Like I've never gotten a regular paycheck. But there is still a sense of value that I hold and that I bring to the table that should be recognized. Yeah. So I think me recognizing that and standing on it, like, oh, okay, I don't have to do the tactics in order to hold value. Like, that's something that I really had to come to terms with as far as I'm concerned.

17:06April McDaniel:Yeah, and even when we started signed, that was like, I was like, yeah, you about to get paid. Like, what? You're like, I'm going to get a paycheck? I'm like, you're going to email this lady every Friday and see if you get paid. Like, I feel like that was very, like, that was a big moment because it's a big moment for her as well and even as her friend. Like, you know, I think understanding your value, I think a lot of people struggle with that. Yeah. Like, because it goes back to what Savannah says about being enough. And I think it takes a lot of inner work for you to feel like you're enough.

17:38April McDaniel:I know I talk to so many young girls. They're like, well, I think I'm going to ask for this. I'm like, if you ask me like that, I wouldn't give you the money. So this is how you need to ask. Like, we're going to rehearse. Like, you know, I'm always, because so many young people are scared to even ask for what they think they deserve, especially women. So really being supportive in, like, what does that look like for them? And knowing what your value should be. I know for me, so I've been in corporate America, but there is that growth, right? From that first opportunity to now where you're like, I am the expert.

18:12You know, I am the head of Money Wellness. I know what I'm talking about. So for you, both of you, what was that moment when you were like, I know my value? It might have been that call or that meeting. You were like, I know what I'm doing. I still feel like I'm getting there. I'll be honest.

18:29April McDaniel:I mean, I can step into a lot of room. At my creative agency, I'd be like, I know what I'm doing. Like, that's like clockwork. But it also is, I will say, just because something is familiar doesn't mean it's right. so I think because of old habits like you go back to what you're familiar with and me and rich talk about this in business I'd be like no we got to do something different we be talking about it talk to each other as founders like we have to do something different he like I don't know about that I'm like me neither brother but we're gonna try like you know I think being together and understanding that even though what what got us here is what got us here doesn't mean it'll get us to the next level.

19:07April McDaniel:And sometimes you need things around you. So I still feel like I am still very much so learning that. So Savannah, for you, with your life, you've had so many opportunities and you're a mom and all that, but what did you pull to get to here? And have you seen those moments of like, yes, it's connecting. It's all connected. Mine is strictly coming from inner work. Yes. Yes. That's the hard line foundation for me. It's coming from what's within and what I believe that I'm capable of. And then translating all of that into the work that we do. I'll get to the end result eventually. But right now, it's really just me believing that I could do all of these things and actually doing all of these things that we're doing.

19:49Yeah.

19:49April McDaniel:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every week we say, oh my God. This is nuts. I cannot believe it. We say this is crazy. We say this is crazy every week. And I mean, I think that's still the sweetness of it. It is. Because it's still very innocent. And people are like, are you delusional? I'm like, yeah, we're kind of delusional. But it only takes one delusional person to have generational wealth. Yeah, but that's the tricky balance, though, for me, because you don't want to lose that childlike excitement when something happens. No, agreed. Right? But that same part of you is why you don't ask for what you're supposed to get.

20:25Correct. Because you still feel like that person. Okay, dropping them, Jim.

20:28April McDaniel:You have this narrative. Yes. Yeah, I do inner work, too. You think you're going to do inner work, too? This is mental well. You have a narrative that you have to rewrite. So my question in line with that is how do you guys start to manage who you let into your life as your business grows, as your profiles grow? And knowing that there's certain like non-starters, I would imagine for the two of you, right? Like energy. Somebody just feels like I'm not spending another day with this person in the room no matter what it costs. Yeah. I think we're still learning that. Yeah, I think that's a very hard lesson.

21:00April McDaniel:Yeah. I feel like we want to engage with people that have shared values. It's very important to us. I think energy and people we want to be around. But I also feel like when it doesn't work, we're learning how to let go early. Early, yeah. Because I think we try to hang on like, we're going to coach. We're going to figure this out. We're going to. And it's like, no. And I think we're learning. So I think being in partnership has taught me a lot of things that I think I didn't get along my journey. So Savannah, what are those cues for you when you're like, ah, this isn't working? We may have to, you know, we talked about earlier about letting go.