In short
Podcast Summary: Boardroom Talks - How Wallo Built a Million-Dollar Business After Prison
Podcast Details
- Podcast Title: Boardroom with Rich Kleiman
- Episode Title: How Wallo Built a Million-Dollar Business After Prison
- Host: Rich Kleiman
- Guest: Wallo267
- Episode Theme: Wallo267 shares his journey from incarceration to becoming a successful entrepreneur, exploring the lessons learned during his time in prison and how they shaped his business acumen.
---
Key Themes and Concepts
Wallo267's Background
- Incarceration Experience: Wallo267 spent 20 years in prison, which he uses as a pivotal point in his life story. He emphasizes resilience and not giving up, even when facing immense challenges.
- Marketing Insight: Wallo discusses his early understanding of marketing, stemming from his creativity in prison (e.g., writing on walls) and how he applied that knowledge upon his release.
"Armed with Good Intentions"
- Book Title Explanation: Wallo's book title signifies his belief that intentions matter, even if actions may not always align with those intentions. He reflects on the duality of good intentions and adverse actions.
- Personal Journey: The book chronicles his transformation and urges readers not to give up on themselves, highlighting that everyone has their own "alarm clock" for when they realize their potential.
Relationships and Community
- Community Connection: Wallo emphasizes the importance of community and how humor can be an effective way to communicate difficult messages and connect with others.
- Diverse Relationships in Prison: He explores the range of characters he met in prison, noting that some of the most surprising people he encountered were kind yet had troubled pasts.
Business Insights
- Risk Taking: Wallo talks about being a risk-taker and how that mentality can be redirected from negative aspects (like crime) to positive business ventures.
- Understanding Your Value: He stresses the significance of knowing one's worth in business and negotiations, drawing from his experiences and the impact of his brand.
The State of Hip-Hop
- Hip-Hop Evolution: Wallo addresses the current state of hip-hop, noting how artists are often afraid to be unique and authentic. He encourages artists to connect with their fan base and be true to their experiences.
- Cultural Impact: He discusses the need for artists to take their audiences on a journey through their music, rather than trying to emulate trends.
Emotional and Psychological Insights
- Impact of Money: Wallo shares his realizations about wealth, suggesting that money doesn't solve underlying personal issues and can lead to feelings of isolation.
- Mental Warfare: He describes his coping mechanisms for trauma experienced in prison, noting the importance of mental health and the journey of deprogramming himself upon release.
---
Key Takeaways
- Resilience is Key: Wallo's journey teaches the importance of perseverance and never giving up, regardless of circumstances.
- Intentions Matter: "Armed with Good Intentions" emphasizes that while intentions may guide actions, they do not always guarantee positive outcomes.
- Value of Community: Building genuine relationships and understanding community dynamics can foster personal and professional growth.
- Authenticity in Art: Artists should embrace their individuality and focus on creating meaningful content rather than following trends.
- Mental Health Awareness: Addressing past traumas is essential for personal growth and success.
---
Conclusion In this episode of Boardroom Talks, Wallo267 shares profound insights from his transformation from a long-term inmate to a successful entrepreneur. His experiences highlight the significance of resilience, authenticity, and the impact of community. Through humor and vulnerability, Wallo inspires others to pursue their dreams and illustrates the importance of understanding one's intentions and value in both life and business.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00I always tell people, I wasn't in jail. I wasn't in prison. I wasn't in Princeton. I wasn't in the boardroom talks. We're coming to you live today from my office in New York City. And I'm here with my main man, Wallow267. Author, media mogul, inspirational speaker, founder of a million dollars worth of game. I could probably go on. Culture advisor, YouTube, owner, airplanes, a hotel, co-owner, a perfume, hydration drink. That's what I'm saying. I could have kept going. Person that love the people. Person that loves the people, man. I definitely see that. And I I believe that. Why are you writing this book now armed with good intentions?
1:06Why now? A lot of people give up. And I say to myself, I walk out of prison, February 18, 2017, after doing a 20-year bit. Well, I ain't give up. I could have gave up. I could have said that I'm a career criminal, they would say. I spent all this time in jail, they would say. Why should I think about pivoting and doing something else with my life? But I didn't. I didn't quit. I said, damn, you know what? I'm in my grandma's middle room, and I got$1 ,000 to my name. I'm going to turn it up because I'm sitting back, and I'm saying, like, we got this. And I'm like, hold up. When I went to prison, we didn't have a satellite in our pocket.
1:43This is a satellite. We didn't have a satellite to the world in my pocket. So I'm like, I think it might be more people in prison in the free world than it is in prison. So I got them. I know I can run circles around these people. And if I know I had the ingenuity in the streets culture over here, I could do some big things over here. Because all I got, I always knew how to market it from writing on walls. I said, damn, marketing ain't going to be hard. But damn, most people out here sleep. And I always was a risk taker in society. Imagine if I take risks over here, which is not going to be that because I ain't got to go to jail or get killed in the process of it.
2:15So let me go over here. And that's what I did. But what does arm with good intentions mean? Arm with good intentions is growing up, I always had good intentions, even though I did some crazy shit. because I was a person that always would think about it after I did some crimes. So the book itself is not just about that is about the story, the journey of me becoming me, become a wallow, the life of wallow. And just me coming, reaching this point where I wake up like, yo, I'm in jail. I'm saying, what the fuck am I doing in the cell? I'm smarter than this. I'm like, what the, I'm not really no tough guy in real life because I didn't really, you know, I always questioned the tough that I did around the other tough guys that really probably was tough based on whatever reason he was.
2:53I'm like, damn, I always questioned that. Like, damn, why the we just do that? So I knew it was more than me, but being in that cell and having all that time, I realized like, yo, man, I gotta do something more with this. There's more to life than this. You know, I'm like, I know it gotta be something good out there for me. And, you know, I came and it's like I'm sharing my journey with people while I'm a good chance and I'm telling people don't give up. Don't give up basically because I didn't give up. And if I ain't give up, you got a shot. It's for them people that it's going to hit when they read it.
3:26Everybody that might hear a story, the comeback story, they might just don't get it. It might not be them because their alarm clock ain't come on yet. I think in life, everybody alarm clock come on different times, whether you're an athlete, whether you're an entertainer, whether you're, you know, whatever you are. It got to be your alarm clock. No matter how much advice you give your kids, they got to be one of them. They got to be open to it. They got to be receptive to it. How do you make arming yourself with good intentions? Like how does one make that a part of their daily arsenal? Like you going out every day to do something.
3:57I don't, I don't, you know, and it's like everybody got the different thing. My thing is I'm gonna help somebody every day. I know my attention is good and whatever I do. One thing I, one thing I know is this. I come from a background in a community of people where it's though, if you can make them laugh, you can make them listen. Even though when you make them laugh, you might say some hurt. Or you might connect them with some pain in their life that they can connect with based off their upbringing. they laughing but you slide the message and then they listen it's like medicine wrapped in candy something like that so it's like that's that's what it's about like just you know um giving it to our people no matter how you give it to them but getting getting the message across to them like yo this is what it is and when i say our people i'm talking about people that that come from a place that the world forget about a lot of times and that struggle i don't care what color you is if you're struggling don't nobody really get about you i i connect with that because i think there's a lot that people can get from one another when they grew up in some form of chaos or form of struggle that doesn't always come with the environment that you grew up in.
4:57Do you feel like there's like a real line in the sand of people that have good intention but go the wrong way than some people that actually just don't have a conscious? Because you said when you did certain things, right? If you committed a robbery or some sort, you felt it afterwards. Is there a line in the sand when you were in prison? Did you see that there was a line in the sand between those people that did lead with good intention regardless of their actions and then some people that just didn't have that conscience i think i think everybody start off when you're born you got good intentions right now it's somewhere along the journey whereas though you get educated on how to be this a different way how to get cold or whatever it might make you cold it could be hurt somebody could have hurt you because hurt people hurt people everybody loved a successful criminal in some type of way.
5:44Whether it's Rob De Niro, whether it's Al Pacino, Scarface, whether it's Tony Soprano. Tony Soprano was on with good intentions in the end game. The end game is, I got to do this, I got to take guys. We're together, we're a gang, we got to take care of our families. Send us kids to college. You know, and make sure mom is all right. Make sure everybody, the guys in the... It's always about a good intention somewhere, but through the journey of that, in order to reach that feeling or that moment or connect with them good intentions, you got to do some bad s*** sometimes. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's deep.
6:19But I didn't have been around some cold, I'm telling you, I didn't have been around some cold motherf***ers, man. You know, being in the penitentiary for a long time, you got some evil people. Some people that, you know, is evil that would do something. The women, kids, take your life. They don't give a s*** because they don't really care. They like, man, f***. And you don't have the time, the energy, or even the insight to understand how did they become this. And some of the nicest people I met on the planet was in prison. Some of the most patient people, some of the most intelligent people. And so it's intriguing because I'd be like, damn, this motherfucker's so nice.
6:59And then somebody was like, yo, you know he killed someone. He killed who? He killed his wife. The fuck? They'd be like, damn. So it's so much, it's like oxymoronic because it'd be like, it'd be on the same thing. I'd be like, damn, how did he do it? He burnt her. I'm like, God damn. I'll be talking to this dude at the table in the yard. I didn't know that, man. What the fuck? But nicest guy. Hey, how you doing? Nicest guy in the world. So it's like, did this guy call me or is he really nice? So it's like, in this journey through life, you're never going to know. Do you see a pattern? Like, is it just something about the family environment?
7:33Is it as simple as not having a maternal or paternal figure in your life that ultimately is like the beginning of removing that good intention? Like, have you seen something from those cold-blooded killers that can act nice in front of you, that are nice in front of you, that are really those people at the same time? Some people snap. Some people just don't care. Some people are just maniacs. I think everybody is different, but I think upbringing is very important. environment and a lot of things is environmental which you've been taught who was your teachers um so it's like i can't just put one finger on i can't just say one way but i didn't see some cold one of the coolest dudes i seen right and and the thing about prison is this i remember i was in prison and i seen something and i came back in my cell and brother umar was like that was one of my cellies he had a lot of time he was doing life i came back in the cell on I was just shaking.
8:26I was like, damn. So he heard about what happened. He already knew what happened. And then he was like,
8:35you running around here naked. I said, what you like? I ain't naked. What's going on? Because I'm fresh in the joint at this time. He said, you running around here naked. I said, what you mean? He said, you ain't covered your mind yet. I said, what you mean? He said, young man, you got to go insane in order to stay sane in here. So when I peeped that, so I remember that night I laid down, sitting laying in the bed, and I'm thinking about what he said, and I kept asking him, what you mean? He said, listen, put a helmet on, man. Protect your mind, man. And that it wasn't that moment it took some time.
9:11I realized that in order to stay sane in the penitentiary, you got to go insane because the things you're going to see, if you're looking at the things that you're going to see and the things you're going to witness during your journey, with a naked mind, you're in trouble. So it got to the point where, though, I just went crazy. And not a crazy way that you might think, but in a way where, though, when I see things, I'm not looking at it. I'm talking about literally me and you be walking in the yard. We walk and talking about, damn, you see the game last night? Yeah, man, man. It was crazy, man.
9:41Clyde Drexler killed it. Yeah, boom, boom, boom, boom. As we walking and talking, because both of us already understand the mental warfare prison, somebody over here is arguing, and the dude might commence to stab and this other dude to his arm get tired. And we just looking, and in our minds, we look at it and be like, damn, he must have did some dumb. We're not even looking at this dude as a victim. We're looking at it based off of, he must have did something crazy for that dude to stab him that many times. But we're not looking at it from the point of, damn, why is he doing this to him? Let's help him.
10:12We're looking at it like that ain't our business. We keep talking about the game. That's crazy. That's putting the helmet on. That's the only one. That's the helmet. That's going insane in order to stay sane, But listen, this is what happened, though. So you spend years seeing this, hearing about rapes, hearing all this crazy shit, right? People dying, people hanging themselves. Through that whole process, I went through that whole process, all them years, decades in prison. And then when it was time for me to go home, I had to deprogram myself in order to reprogram myself like I'm coming from a war.
10:44So when I'm going, I had to take time to just try to somehow delete my memory or prepare for real life and prepare to be a human in a different way. Because if I seen something that affected me, I had to take it to myself, put the tile up and feel and had that emotional moment with myself and be and show that fear of. Stabbed a dude like 25 times. They had to fly him out on the helicopter. So does all that stuff start coming back to you at that point? There's times you think of it out here in the free world, you're in your journey. But at the same time, you got to protect those you love from that.
11:22So even though I can't talk to you about that, you won't even understand because I never wanted you to be in fear of my family member to say, damn, you went through all that? Yeah. It's a lot and it's a journey of trying to figure it out. But you got to prepare yourself to go back out to society. you know so you talk about environment um and yourself me talk so much gilly about philly philly is in bad shape right now yes what's philly like now compared to when you were growing up it was a different time because somebody would give you they'll fight you with hands more than somebody shoot you and the the highlight of the game was about money violence superseded the money to whereas though the violence got to the extreme.
12:07Like if me and you got a problem, we could fight. But now if me and you got a problem, you might got to die or I got to die. What take place whereas though it escalate that quick, that far, and then social media come into play. Embarrassment is something that's extreme. That's like, you know, like ego, ego is king. Revenge. So you got ego, you got revenge, you got hurt. You got emotions. You got all this mixed up in a pot. And you just got a bunch of explosions going on. And that's a whole different level of intensity from. It's a whole different level because it's like when everybody got a gun and they've never been taught conflict resolution, it gets crazy.
12:53They know one way. Poverty is there. I ain't got nothing to lose. So it's a lot. Yeah. You know, sometimes they hear certain crimes is put on a pedestal through music. So it's a lot. When people talk about your success and then they talk about the time you spent in prison, sometimes I feel like they just gloss over it. They say it so freely. Did 20 years in prison. But for someone that's never spent a second in prison, they can't even fathom 20 years, lifetime. You talked about how education was a big part of your time in prison. Talked about, I read about when you got the iPod, right? What did that do?
13:39First of all, how do you get an iPod and what access do you get from an iPod? Like, I didn't even understand how you got to the world through an iPod. And also, do you feel like people don't fully understand what the 20 years in prison is? Most people in America is so detached from incarceration, and they don't look at it like that. So the only way it gets highlighted is when you come up out of a situation like that and you win. People only get a** about you when you win. They don't care about your sob story. You didn't have a parent. What happened to your parents? So it's like to a point, but a lot of people do gloss over and don't understand that journey, that they probably would have killed themselves or they wouldn't have been able to do it.
14:23but that was the 20, but I did five before that. Yeah. Juvenile, so it's 25 of my life incarcerated. So you look at it and you be like, it don't really hit them. Yeah. I don't think it really hit a lot of people, you know what I mean? So it's like, I think that's why they probably just look over it like, ah. But, you know, I think only reason people would probably pay attention to me more because I won afterwards. And the thing is, what makes it like deep thin is like, there's no way in the world you're supposed to come home after 20 years and move like you do. No way. There's no way in the world you're supposed to be a CMO of marketing.
14:56There's no way in the world you're supposed to be the coach or advisor of YouTube. There's no way in the world you're supposed to have a hit show and sign in these deals. There's no way in the world you're supposed to have a beverage company. There's no way in the world you're supposed to be able to start companies like it ain't nothing. The people that's on point, they understand the impact of it. They understand why I'm necessary or why I'm impactful or why they need to partner with me. or like, did you go to Warren School of Business? You didn't go there? You from Philly, right? You had to go there.
15:26No, I got a GED in prison. So your education was a big part of your time in prison. Yes, I wasn't listening. Like I always tell people, I wasn't in jail. I wasn't in Yale. I wasn't in prison. I was in Princeton. I wasn't in State Penn. I was in Penn State. I wasn't there educating myself. I was reading all types. One of my greatest people that I was watching, my man, Anthony Bourdain, because I'm looking at Anthony and I'm like, hold up. Anthony used to be on drugs, man. He flipped it up and now he's showing us the world. We're seeing the world through him and I'm like, damn, imagine if I could do that from the community-based aspect like the hood, because I understand a lot of times in the hood, we don't understand that there's a world out there and we lack exposure a lot of times.
16:07You know the game. As players, some dudes get a hundred million, never went nowhere before. Outside of playing basketball, they don't know life. They never lived. because the only thing they knew was I got to play basketball to get out the hood, to go to this predominantly white college. I'm going to go to this college. I'm going to be on the campus all the time. I ain't going to go nowhere. They're going to take care of me. Then I'm going to get this deal done. I still never went nowhere. I don't really know nothing. They don't know anything. Because all I did was practice, went to my dorm room.
16:32Practice, went to my dorm room, played the game, chill. Yep. Got a$100 million contract, and now I'm just. And kept people around me that only say yes. You know what? You know what? I was thinking about having the company at the right time. There's no. Because I used to tell rappers this. There's a lot of big rappers don't need to say their names. Every time I would get with them and I'd be at a show somewhere, I would tell like DeAndre Rage. They might have 12 or 10 people. I'd be like, damn, you're so y 'all lucky. You'd be like, why? What's up? Because if I was his manager, all y 'all be home.
17:00None of you motherfuckers would be here. Like I could start a company right now just firing motherfuckers. Just going to analyzing team and sending everybody home. Like, listen, this is what we're doing. because I got a thing where I speak to NFL teams, a program called Side Effects of Success. And I talk about when you come into the league, you're going to have issues based off the money. You're going to have issues based off of now. You're going to have access to DM all these girls. They're going to be a problem. You're going to have a lot of fallouts because all of a sudden you're going to have a lot of people in your family that got all these extraordinary business ideas.
17:39so it's going to be fallouts because your cousin need 550 000 to open up a barbershop that's that's what you get you get you got to have the infrastructure around you and the right people around you that's not going to let you go fall victim to that from the jury to the women to the cars to the family member pass-offs it's crazy but it's different it's a cultural difference because our white culture is different than black culture black athlete white athlete is different because, and it's real, white athlete go to college, most of the time his mom and dad is already established. Black athlete go to college.
18:17It's his job to save everybody that never made it in life. So now he got to buy mom a crib, which is, okay, that's reasonable. Some of them, pop's not there. They never, either their pop wasn't there, if they pop there, they buy mom and dad a crib if they're together, but then he got to separate it. Let me buy mom a crib. Let me buy dad a crib. I got to buy them a crib. Then I got to get him the cars. I got to put some money in their account. Bang. Boom. I got any brothers and sisters. Now I got to save their life because if I don't save their life, they're going to go on Instagram and say I'm fake.
18:48I ain't doing that. And most of these kids ain't built for that yet. Then who is my entourage? Who are my five friends that ain't got no life, that ain't doing nothing? They've just been sitting around waiting for me to win. That you feel a sense of responsibility for? You got a sense of responsibility for them based on why you know them. And nobody got no patience to wait. Nobody got no patience to say, damn, well, you know, I just dissed my entry-level joint. Because right now, you don't even. First of all, in this day and time, once you get in, if you didn't have the right people around you in college, you don't even know that.
19:20Ain't nobody tell you that when them NIL deals came that you wasn't paying taxes, buddy, because you didn't have the right people around and you getting millions of dollars, getting a car. Ain't nobody tell you about the tax part. So that's going to come. You got to deal with that in a minute. Now you get to the league, you get that little bit of money at the beginning, NFL, NBA, whatever. It ain't as much as you, you know what I mean? Because that's just, you got to warm up. You got to show up now. And you're trying to live a certain life. Yeah. You want to look bigger than the biggest stars look.
19:45Think about it. Yeah. Because when you see the biggest stars on the elite level, you don't see LeBron. You don't see KD walking in there like that. They ain't got, you know, they ain't got 10, 15 chains on. You don't see none of this. They ain't coming through in the land, but they just, they might jump out of a black truck. Yeah. You see Katie with some hand-me-down motherfucking sweatpants on and some Travis Scott's on and a dad hat with no haircut. But what I'm saying is they want to let it be known. I won. I'm here. Yeah, what? I don't need anything. I'm that guy. Yeah. They pulling up. They got the walk.
20:20They got it all together. They got 15 cars already. They're homeboy. Then they got to deal with the fact of, hold up, You didn't think about the distraction to the team when you out Denver and your homeboy get caught in the car with weed and a gun in there and it's your car. Is he out here? For me, he wouldn't even be out there with you. Sorry, he wouldn't even be out there with you. You got this information. I mean, the GED is one thing. I get that. But this iPod gave you some insight that you don't think you could have gotten if you hadn't got your hands on that? It gave me the up on people because what it did was, rest in peace to my homeboy Frank.
20:56Frank, my homeboy Frank, he walked in the cell and gave me this. He said one day he's like, yo, wow, look. He came in my cell. He brought me the iPod Touch and a clear wireless hotspot. I just found this wireless hotspot on my manager found it for me on eBay, and I said, order it. She said, wow. I said, order it. I need it. I don't even think it worked no more, but I just had to, because I had this in prison. I'm like, I need this. So it was this small, gray and thin, and he gave it to me. I said, yo. So years ago, this young guy told me about Google and I wrote it in my book of life. That's my notes.
21:31And I thought when a young kid told me about Google, I said, you're lying to me. You mean to tell me that I could type my name in on some and my name will pop up? I've been to jail all this time. Why would that happen? So I wrote it down. So when I go in there, the first thing I do, I go to Google. I cut the wireless hotspot on, the light turned green. I see the little tower on the iPod touch. It's all little. I'm like, yo, this is decent. It's like a movie, right? It's like when E.T. drew the basket, right? It's like, it's crazy. I'm like, I got the towel over the door. So I typed my name in the Safari thing, Google.
22:05He showed me. He gave me a little tutorial on the show. So I said, and all popped up. I dropped the phone because I thought the feds was on me. I thought he was coming. I said, the CIA, somebody on me. How the they know this? What's going on? It's Cameron. I don't know. So after I get it, I'm like, I said, hold up. I know what I got to type in now. like the next typing i i went right to i just typed that xxx i needed to see some porn because i was in jail a long time after that i lost my mind i went on a date i went on so many dates i fell in love like immediately but all these porn stars it was just crazy i'd be like oh but i started getting a lot of information too though on some real i'm like hold up i could go on youtube and somebody could tell me how to do anything so now i'm looking at the people in the real world i'm like what the is they doing out there and i'm and i'm not looking at the new people the young people I'm looking at the people from my generation like so when I call I'm like yo man you got a phone yeah man I'm like what the f*** is you doing then we got the up on these we got the advantage we never had no like did you mean to tell me that I could communicate with somebody in Tokyo and never been to Tokyo I could go look at Tokyo on Google Maps and all that s*** I couldn't believe it so when you get out are you now armed with this information Man, listen, I get right out.
23:21I'm going in the anti-crib. Only thing I wanted when I came on was two phones. I said, it's over. I got me two phones. I got me a tripod. And I got busy. What did you know about how to, let's say, go viral or build an audience? I didn't know how to go viral. I knew this. I knew that it was a battle of tension on the timeline. And I knew that the only thing that people paid attention to on the timeline was the athlete with the money, the dude from wherever with the jury, the rapper, the girl that was butt naked. So I said, okay. And this is exactly what I said. I said, okay, I got these motherfuckers.
23:51It's a battle of the timeline. Because when you come down the timeline, you see me, I might be laying on the ground on the corner in the ghetto with ketchup on my head looking like I got shot. But when I look up to the camera, I say, don't wait until it's too late. Don't wait until it's too late where the ambulance is getting closer. But you think it's getting farther because you're expiring to get your life together. Now, you stop and you laugh like, what the f*** is this dude doing? You think somebody got shot. Some people, some people laughing like this dude got ketchup on his head, whatever.
24:17but it's a battle of the timeline. Then the next video, you see me running across the expressway as the 18 will it come and you see the Eagles stadium behind me and you like, I'm putting it all in because I'm like, they're going to see that. They're going to see the 18 will it come up, but I'm going to beat it because it's a little bit. I do my post and I'm doing my got my tripod up. So I knew it was a bad. I knew, damn, okay. I just got to battle with these motherfuckers. They the same people as all them and it's only one me. But it's not as easy as you're making it sound. Now, if someone asked me to give two adjectives about what you bring, right?
Read the full transcript
24:49And I could come up with a thousand. But I would say that there's a vulnerability and a humor that you never let go of. It's three things. Number one, vulnerability. Number two, to this day, since I was a kid, I used to be in my uncle room and I used to listen to Ria Fogg and Richard Pryor albums. I knew that I always wanted to be a comedian somewhere in my life and somewhere in my life. I was one. Um, I just was a different, my style was different. So I bring vulnerability, humor, and number three that, that destroy most people that they ain't got over me. Out of the billion people on the planet.
25:26I don't give a what you think you, it don't matter. Your thoughts ain't paying my bills. You, so I don't care. So that's the thing being black in America. If you got that and you're black in America, you win. because everything is about how I'm going to be perceived, how I'm going to look. I got to be, at the end of the day, we control cool. I ain't worried. I'm already cool. I've been cool. Yeah, people get caught up on looking corny. It's two things. In a black experience in America, the black journey, which we established the word corny, right? Corny is not about how you dress. It's not about how much money you got.
26:05Corny is a mentality. It's a mindset. It's the way you act. It's just that's something that money can't uncorn a cornball. That's why you see a lot of corny going on by a lot of rich people. They're just corny. No matter how much money you pay to get around cool. That's why I keep telling people, when you that guy, you're not worrying about being called corny because you never was corny. The corny people only worry about that. And most of them worry about what people think. You're not showing up when it's time for me to pay these mortgages. Why do I give a? See that's why most people That's why when I came home from jail I'm like damn I'm looking around And I said this to myself I don't want to hear nobody's mouth Don't say nothing to me Don't complain I gave you motherfuckers a 20 year head start All you motherfuckers out here playing And I see nothing but shackles around y 'all mind Because y 'all afraid of what people going to think about y 'all Y 'all afraid of y 'all biggest haters in the world Ain't nobody hating on y 'all Y 'all hate on yourself Because what you do is you'll think about an idea Then you think about five ideas To not materialize that first idea you came up with You ain't going to fuck with me I don't care.
27:07So you knew you had it. I'm going to destroy you motherfuckers. I'm a risk taker. The only thing that the only thing jail did with me gave me time to say, hold up, you got to do risk mitigation. Hold up. What you taking risk for? Once I removed my whole risk taking game out of the streets, couldn't nobody with me. I don't worry about like, like me, I see a lot out here and culture and I be like, damn, they don't know what they doing. They don't know what they doing. I said, I got to start an agency or something. These motherfuckers don't know how to put certain things together where it's not forced.
27:35That was forced. That was fake. like me listen I sat in a mother cell and we had a TV in penitentiary in Pennsylvania you could buy a TV off commissary I'll never forget my seller used to be like why you always turning the TV why you don't just watch a show only show I'm watching is like Anthony Bourdain and that was parts I know the layover no reservations but all this other he was like you keep watching commercials all the time cause I'm like Selly you used to go to McDonald's on the street he's like yeah I said you've never seen that mother Big Mac like that, did you? You see how it is? Look at the cheese.
28:09Look how that shit land. Then I realized, oh, that's an advertising agency doing that. Oh, okay. Then I read the book, Damn Good Advice by George Lois, top one of the greatest admin in the history of life. He the one he did the movie Mad Men about. George Lois, he's a legend. So I'm reading shit, I'm reading shit. I'm like, oh, what do the color red mean? What do the color green mean? What do this mean? Oh, that's a marketing. Oh, damn. And then I realized I've been a marketer since I've been writing on the walls and growing up in the ghetto the way i dress was marking okay all right yeah so now i'm putting together and i realize so now the way i'm looking at whatever it is netflix whatever ad is youtube i'm like who the got that was corny why did they do that collaboration when you started this journey when you and gilly locked up a million dollars worth of game when you started building this empire when you do your deal with barstool is it head down and the next thing happens and you know how to play it and the next thing happens and you know how to play it or is there this like theoretical whiteboard that you're sitting in front of where you're like no i'm out and i got a game i called gill september i called girl gill one morning april 17 2019 that's the first episode so a couple months before i called him i said yo get up it was like 400 months yo get up cuz read this article because i because me and gill got different parts to play that's what's so great about us and um and if we wrong we wrong if we right we right we're going to tell each other that no matter what and we butt heads you won't see it but the issue be this the issue we got different parts to play that's what make us so good gil might be in the studio chilling one thing i know about gil he's a statistician he know about sports in ways that can't imagine i don't i know about hip-hop culture i know about pop culture i know about different that he don't that's what make us so good because he'd call me yo who the what's his name what that's a I'm matching, cuz.
29:59Listen, put me on the phone, FaceTime me. And then I get on there and tell them my whole life. So we got different parts to play, but also I'm like the researcher. So I'll be up on YouTube. I'll be reading articles on Apple News, all types of meaningless shit the average person probably won't do, but I need to know. I said, yo, Spotify just allocated 400 million to podcasts in the first quarter of 2019. And at the time, Maurice Corrett, shout out to him, my man Reese, he used to be calling me and Gil all the time. I'm like, y 'all motherfuckers need a podcast. You know, Marge Collette, Ohio State.
30:31He like, y 'all, Peter, I'm like. So he had somebody that was doing it. He kept telling us, I'm telling you to do this and that. So we do it. We just set it up. First episode that we shot, shot it like on the couch in my crib, like some regular camp. Contest superseded the big studio, the lights and all. We was just shooting, right? So we get to shooting. We do it. The first episode we put out in like seven hours that it came out, we was like number two under Joe Rogan in comedy. We was number four in all categories on Apple. we was like oh alright it's a wrap we got this and what we knew is nobody had what we had everybody had a different box that they was in Joe had the crew here at Marl and Roy they was doing their thing Joe Marl and Roy they had something special and they owned right they just had this thing they just had an audience that was their people their camaraderie was just great Norrie was doing his thing with the legends and all that we was like who catered to the Young Bucks Like, who catered to the people in the streets also?
31:30It's like they was unrepresenting. Oh, we got them. So we took that and ran with that. And it just came. It wasn't about. I just called my lawyer. I said, listen, LLC trademarked his name. Called my man, got the logo done. All in the day. And we just ran. And you still operate like that today? It was me, Gil, and our cameraman. That's it. We not with this entourage. We got two cameramen. That's it. Four cameras. No, no. Six cameras. You know what I mean? They stand them joints up. Four at the hand. And we just banged it. We in and out. We not come with an entourage. We not come with that bull.
32:01Get in and we get out. And we always on the road because we want to come into your space and we want to show your world. The desk is like is oversaturated because everybody got a podcast. And it's like, come on. You know what I mean? Was the I don't give a f*** attitude part of the vision to partner with Barstool? No. One thing about Barstool is Barstool. One thing I like about Eric Nardini and Dave Poinoy, they're about business. In this world, everybody want to zoom you the f*** out. I hate Zoom, and I'm not saying that in the wrong way, Zoom, because if y 'all want to partner, we could do something.
32:32He's ready. Now, what I'm saying is what Zoom did, Zoom made a bunch of people fake and poor, because all they want to do is keep sending a meeting. You did enough research to see me, see my impact on coaches, see what I do, to where as though you're going to just send that email and say this is what we're trying to do, get the league involved, let's go right there. That's what Boris did. Courtney Hope, he called our phone one day. scariest car on for station I ever had in my life because I'm like how did you get a number he called me hi I'm Courtney Ho Spotify I'm like yeah me I said hold up I called Gil plugged him in but I'm running my Google search right I'm screenshotting to send it to Gil this motherfucker's heavy he ran Disney he ran this this guy's heavy I'm running in my mind because I'm texting Gil back and forth He's like, how the f*** you get our number?
33:25I said, when you hot, they find your number, right? So I'm like, damn, Shaka Zulu. Shaka was over at Spotify. I said, Shaka gave it to him probably. I think Shaka came in before Cartier. He went to him and left. So I'm like, probably Shaka because Shaka was just talking to you. So we talking. And he says like this. I like what you guys got going on. You know he real calm. I like what you guys got going on. I want you to come over here to Spotify. What you want? I got scared. I said, this is some scary, right? he said what you want I said oh well you know my lawyer you know I said he said what do you want I said what you want he said we want to own everything I said whoa I said I got to talk to my lawyer because I'm like I'm not giving away I don't give a f*** what I'm doing I'm not giving away my IP no matter where I go I'm always going to do a licensing deal I'm not doing so I'm like alright well listen we're going to get a legal he said I'm going to put you on email let's get to talking so he was going back and forth but you got Eric Nardini at the time and you got David Portnoy we coming down to Philly catch the train get off to the 30th Street Station we go to Devin's in the restaurant because they sent some offers through email we ain't paying no attention it was nice I'm like Gil let's jump on it because I'm like I'm saying to myself like I need this money this is my first deal of my life so I go inside the room and I'm like we eating I'll never forget I'm eating crab cakes.
34:49And he was like, well, you know, we understand that's not enough money, whatever you say. So I'm like, yeah, I got this. Let me got this. So I jumped off the bridge. I said the number. They said, okay. I could have doubled that. Damn, but it was good because I never had no, you know what I mean? So I'm like, bet. The relationship was so great because it's like you need people that's going to fight for you when things don't go right for y 'all, when y 'all might do something that's not in line or that might not be brand safety for whatever. You need somebody that's going to go in there. And I knew that other places probably won't go in there and do that for us.
35:20Dave and them don't give a f***. And they let you own it. It was a licensing deal. So it was like, hold up. They were just like, we just want to be our partners. And we respected that. So we do the 36 months, 52 episodes a year, licensing deal. Come back. Right before the deal was ready to expire, we get into bidding war. Spotify, Amazon. Shout out to Tim Henshaw over there at Amazon, my guy. And Barstew, shout out also to Sean G. He brought a lot of s*** to the table, Live Nation Urban, my guy. That's family. Hello, Sean. That's family. So I'm sitting there, and I'm like, we going back and forth, and we just on the money just coming in.
36:05I'm talking about the money was coming in, and we was just like – and it was crazy because we was just like shooting s*** down like crazy. We was laughing on text because as the emails, I mean, the emails was coming in, right? But we no agent, no nothing. We just doing this. And shout out to Sean G because that's, listen, that's the big homie. And he was able to put things together because he understood value. That's why I keep telling these guys out here, you got to get with somebody to know how to articulate your value to brands, to companies, and your worth and your impact on culture. but what me and Gil brought we brought something different because we got a million dollars worth of gain and then you got Gilly then you got Walla you got all our outlets we'll be shooting it out and it's like what we bring you can't measure you can't you can't measure impact on culture no you can't put a price on impact that's why it's so important like you say about Sean and what we were talking about earlier you really now more than ever where these numbers and these metrics mean nothing.
37:06If you don't have somebody representing your impact, you're done that can't speak the language of what your impact is. They'll never ask for enough. They won't know what enough is for you. They don't educate you on how to structure what you doing because everything is about structure. Everything is about titling and everything is about relationships because everybody can't walk in that room and everybody don't know a person get money and they'd be like, I got you money. I don't need nobody, bro. One day your ankle might go out. Yeah. And that, that, that, that money you got is cool, but who do you got?
37:40They can amplify that money you got because simple as just saying, listen, give me a million dollars. Shut up. Just give me a million. I got, is that what you meant then? When one of the lines I read that you said that really connected was you thought money was going to make away and didn't make anything go away. Money is probably the most painful thing you can ever get. Cause I'm playing something to you. I get a 63 Benz brand new I never forget I'm riding down the highway the fastest Benz ever made I'm driving down the highway I think I was going from like I was just going from like Philly to Baltimore somewhere I pulled on the side on the rest stop and I was sad and I'm gonna tell you why I'm sitting here and I'm like damn I lost a lot of people man and I was hurting because it was like a lot of people start looking at me as dollar sign not looking at me as friend or family member that they can just call and laugh because it's like I'm I'm a comedian all day.
38:30So I might see some funny s*** like, damn, let me call. Or even if you see some funny s***, you'd call me like, yo, Wala, look at this crazy s***. I'll face Tommy or send me the video. And I'm like, but it go from Rich sending me videos, telling me about some crazy s***, telling me about somebody down the way that did the alt, some outrageous s***, telling me just about regular, yo, man, they got, listen, I'm at the store, they got your favorite pie, man, to every time you call me, it's about money. And it was like, God damn, regular people got it made. The regular life is better than what we think because we think money going to come and anything will go away.
39:03And another thing that hit me is when I signed my deal for Barstool, I'm driving my Prius at this time. Because that was my favorite car. Prius, 27 miles per gallon. Unbelievable car. I used to ride from New York and to Philly back like on half a tank of gas. I love that car. They sent me down there to talk to the kids at the Boys and Girls Club in Atlantic City. I'm talking to him. I leave. I get the DocuSign. I sign my first contract with Barstool. And as I'm driving away, I'm like, I didn't feel nothing. I'm like, because when you think the money come, that it's going to erase everything, every hardship you went through in your life, and you're going to feel different, but it don't happen.
39:48And you still got to deal with the issues of, you know, the traumas you had that let down the fears and whatever. Everything is there, insecurities. Everything is still there. and I'm like, what the f***? What is all this s*** for? And then when you spend money, you run through money, you think it's a good, because that instant feeling that going in the store is spending some money, you'd be like, damn, I bought that, I bought this. And then you'd be like, I don't even mean that. The one feeling is like, because you'll, listen, you'll buy a bunch of s***, never have it in your closet that you never, well, you're like, damn, this hot, I'm a weird, the car, you'd be like, and then you drive the car a time or two.
40:23Yeah, people might stop, take pictures and look at it, But you be like, don't feel different. I don't even give you like to drive your car that nobody noticed you in. I almost feel like those same people that maybe do feel like money fulfills them are the same people that don't realize they're corny. To be honest, it's the same people that, like you say, you can put everything on, put the right clothes on, the right car. You can even change how you walk and change how you talk, change the parties you go to. But we know I'm more happy with going into a restaurant and nobody knowing for me and paying for.
40:55bunch of people food and leaving. So it's like that's more fulfilling doing something for some charity or community, you know, and that's the, that's the stuff that's fulfilling. That's being armed with good intention. That's the stuff that really matter. Cause you'd be like, damn, because I don't want to get something. I don't care to flex on you, you, you, I don't give a, that's not my thing to flex on you. My thing is like, damn, I, I feel sorry when I got in, you don't, they'd be like, damn. So it is a wild thing is wow. Last question before you go, because it means so much to me and I know means even more to you.
41:28What are your feelings on the state of hip hop right now? I believe that I'm a hip hop story and hands down, hands down. I don't care what coast it is. I know all. Me, I love hip hop. Hip hop was something that we created out of the struggle to get out. And it was from the drums to the sounds to the lyrics. It was just something that was the soundtrack that helped me escape when it wasn't food in the crib. It was everything when Chuck D came through the speakers. It was just like everything listening to EPMD or Ice-T or Ultramagnetic. It was just something to me. When I look at hip-hop, I look at it like this.
42:05A lot of people have the ideas of what it's supposed to be, but we didn't pay attention to the people ideas of what it's supposed to be when we first came out. And they said, what is this garbage? everybody got their own example of it for themselves especially coming from a young generation i think a lot of times it'd be like when you're older you don't understand certain things and certain approaches that people might have and i and i'm to the point where i respect the game but i'm still stuck into what i listen to gang star tribe called quest i'm going to but But then I still can listen to Dirk and Lil Baby, you know, everybody else, all the youngins.
42:45But it's like somebody got to come and say, this is my life and this is my sound. I'm not going to emulate. It's too much emulating. It's too much everybody, you know, everybody want to dress the same. They want to sound the same. They want to, like, everybody is just like right now it's like it's a chokehold on the game where people are just scared to be different and rap different and just say, you know what, this is what I really feel. like everybody's just like scared it's like I'm scared and it's like what the f*** is going on like why is everybody scared to rap like it's to the point where people scared to drop the music they like I worry about sales I'm worrying about and my whole thing is you worrying about sales and the greatest albums in hip hop ain't even sell that many records Nauseamatic ain't doing no good the first week the Purple Tape ain't no good first week Reasonable Doubt ain't None of these joints had no good first week or sales.
43:40It's about working on an album you worked on for two years. You toured. You know that shit. You toured. You did shows. And you build it up and then it turned into a classic. It wasn't instant classic Iron Man. You do this. But it's like nobody want to do the history to see what it's about. Artists got to take you on a journey with them. From the merch to the website to the show. Everything got to be personalized more. And I think it got to be more boutique. to start off got to be boutique but everybody want to you can't be Travis overnight well the labels turn their back on that development yeah you don't need that label now you don't need them but it's crazy you don't need the label but I go both ways because there's a point about scaling and if you want to use OPM to build your everything is about the terms and the contract that's all I can tell people to the point of how you developed it when I was in the music industry you would develop it in your own region you would put your mixtapes out You tour for 100 people, another 100 people.
44:38Yes. You put some merch out. Then you'll get the record deal and you became partners. And I think that's missing a bit. But I think now artists realize and are hopefully realizing that not only did they not leave the label, when you do go to the label, build that up to find who you are before that. Like you guys did before you went to Barstool. You got to build your stuff up so you got your proof of concept. Then you go there and get the right support and you have stronger terms in the contract. But I also believe like artists got to stop being scared. to step back down and touch their fan base.
45:08Because a lot of, everybody thinks it's arena. Everybody's not Rod Wade. Everybody can't sell arena. Don't worry about arena. Go back down to them 2 ,000, 3 ,000 stops. Go into them towns. Connect with the people. Connect with the businesses in the community. Stop, turn the old Tower Records and the old mom and pop store. Stop. Turn that into the sneaker store. That sneaker store that in every city, that's where you stop, pop up, sign the posters, take pictures, connect with people. make their human connection again. Yeah. Because it got so far to where as though the artist got so far where as though they don't connect with people no more.
45:41Yeah. They connect with streams. Yeah. And even when you connect with streams, like when you build that shit up, that core fan base where you can send that email blast out or that text number is different when you with the people. Yeah. But a lot of people don't even got that. But that's the impact. That's where the numbers made people feel like, well, hold up. Look, look at my audience. But no, the audience is when you go into real life and you feel how they come out to support you. No, audience is not. When I can see your Shopify, Shopify, like if I'm signing artists and I'm looking for artists, the first thing I'm looking for, the real artist that's really about these.
46:12Let me see a Shopify merch sales. Because I'm saying I can make my money back with this guy. Let me see. You got hard ticket sales? Damn, you did. Damn. What the? Oh, yeah, I'm getting you. I ain't worrying about the dude that got the. Because I don't know if the numbers real or not. Them digital numbers. I don't know if they real. I know Shopify is real. I know this hard ticket is real. because that's how you could tell. Leroy Corn, he sat down with me. Shout out to him and Tumabasa. That's who took me over to YouTube, made me the cultural advisor. And he said, Wallo, you can't tell if an artist is really the shit.
46:41You know how he talk? You tell about it on a row. Hard ticket sales, Wallo. Yeah. So it's like, come on, man. Yeah. Like, you can't, you can't, like, that's why a lot of shit don't go. It don't go because it's not real. It's not real. It's not real. It's a computer generator. It's bullshit. Yeah. And you'd be like, damn, why they ain't do a show here? Why they ain't do a show? because real people, they come to see your show. If you look at kids like Lucky on tour, you look at Larry June on tour, you look at B's, when you see these kids on tour, these people is on tour and they coming out and they snapping when they coming out.
47:12They're like, oh, snapping. And even if you see young artists building up, you see that fan base that starts from one city to city. And leave it off with this. In America, one of the best places to create the fan base and have a fan base is on the East Coast, and I'm going to tell you why. The East Coast, and I tell people this, they be f***ed up. It's the only place in America where you get hit five cities in three hours. You go from Boston to D.C. and like, I'm just saying, stop it. Boston, New York, all Jersey, Philly, Baltimore, Delaware, D.C. If you could penetrate that market on products, on anything, you could have a clothing line, you can have art you can do whatever if you could just focus on that you if you if you could do a stop each city you and and guess what not only you but we're both buyers being from new york and philly northeast is still the coolest it is it's the coolest and it's the most and if you can make it here you can make it anywhere on the planet if you can make that man you're good you could take that to the world and that's what it's about and that's how i look at it and that's what you've done brother well yeah to to coin something leor cohen said about somebody in hip-hop once he said they were necessary and i know you used that earlier and i don't say that lightly because you're necessary to so many people you're necessary to the media business to people that are struggling to people like myself that are watching your success and i i have to say being in hip-hop and in sports for the last 25 27 years growing up in new york city very few people am i just wowed by, like completely wowed by.
48:54That's part of that critical feeling that you talked about. And I'm just wowed by your success. Thank you. What you and Gilly have done. What I know you're going to continue to do, which is scary. And this book is special. And I know it's probably. This is my first big time they publish a memoir. The other books were just me, books that I wrote, you know what I mean, independently. But this is the one right here. If anybody's listening and they're smart, they will listen to that book, read that book and continue to follow you, man. I appreciate you. I appreciate you having me. Well, thank you, man, for tuning in to another Boardroom Talks.
49:23Wallow 267, arm with good intentions. The boardroom, baby. Yes.
From the publisher
Wallo267, host of Million Dollaz Worth of Game and New York Times bestselling author of Armed With Good Intentions, didn’t achieve success overnight. In this episode of Boardroom Talks, he sits down with Rich Kleiman to share the raw truth about relationships in prison, the unlikely characters he met, and the mental strength he developed during his decades behind bars. Wallo reveals how those lessons taught him everything he needed to know about marketing, building relationships, and growing a business. He also dives into his business partnership with Barstool and reflects on whether money truly solves life's biggest problems.
