Jaylen Brown Opens Up on How NBA Wealth Changed His Life & Relationships

0:00It's probably one of the more vulnerable conversations I've had. God has already provided me with more than I could ever have imagined. If I never make another dollar in this lifetime again, I'm extremely grateful for everything that I have. I was raised by a single mom, so I just wanted to alleviate any pressure I could on my side. When people say money can't buy happiness, and I'm kind of like, are you sure? More money, more problems. More money, more problems. Friends, family, they can let you down, man. I had to learn to deal with envy. It changes you. Conversations become invoices. Lines get blurred.

0:35But that's been the hardest part for me to navigate, you know, because it puts you on an island. Isolates you. And money is fun, right? I don't want to be somber. What are you doing to bring joy in your life using money? I think traveling. Money don't make you rich, baby. I'm rich in life. I'm rich in experience. I'm rich in adversity. I'm rich in prosperity. That makes me happy. You got to develop tools of discernment, but only experience can kind of give you that, you know. But as a young person developing that either a three-month window or six-month window before you start to evaluate things, are they going, how much money was spent, then you can, you know, make a decision from there.

1:11Welcome to Mental Wealth, brought to you by Boardroom and Ally Bank. In this series, we'll unpack the lessons learned from the financial journeys of some of the greatest minds in sports and entertainment. What's up, everybody? And welcome to a special boardroom series, aptly titled Mental Wealth, with our partners, Ally Bank. And with me today, I got two special guests. First of all, from Ally Bank, the head of money wellness, Jack Howard. And this may sound weird to you, but Phil Delvitt's 76ers all-star, Jalen Brown. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Okay. So you can't say something like mental wealth and not follow up for Jalen and I with a bit of a definition.

1:55So from your standpoint, with your experience, define what mental wealth means to you. Yeah, I want to give you some grounding on this conversation of what mental wealth means. It is bigger than numbers. It's not the numbers. It's not your net worth. It's really your relationship with money, your past with money. How is it showing up for you today? And most importantly, your values and how does that guide the decisions you make with money today, tomorrow and someday? We're going to get into the emotions and the mindset of money. Yes. I remember the first time we spoke about it. It definitely registered when we first spoke.

2:28You and I asked me questions that like really registered with me just about what it means to have a relationship with money and like where that comes from. You know, I know for me, the things that we spoke about was just that like, you know, I've realized that it doesn't necessarily matter how much money you grew up with or didn't grow up with. Sometimes like the love in your house is more powerful than that. And for me, like I didn't necessarily worry about where a meal was coming from, but there was this stress about what money meant. And people around me fought about money all the time and talked about money all the time.

3:05So I just instantly wanted to go out and figure out a way to make money. And I was almost like turned off by it. You know what I'm saying? In some ways, what would you say were your like first experiences and understandings of like where money fit into the world and into your life? That's a great question. I was raised by a single mom. So our resources were they were they were limited to some degree. You know, my mom had a really good job. At times there was recessions in Atlanta. She had to work multiple jobs just to make sure she could provide. So I have friends who had things that I didn't have.

3:46I think that was my earliest experience where, you know, you could just tell they had the newest gear or shoes and we couldn't afford to get that. So I guess some of my earliest memories would be around seeing kind of when others around me, families had more and we had less. Yeah. And, Jay, what did that teach you about money? How do I get it? How do I get it? Okay. You know, because there's certain things. You want nice things. You want certain things for yourself. And you realize that, you know, that's not your reality. How do I make it my reality? Yeah. And, Rich, I know you have an interesting money story, too.

4:22So when you think back to your earliest memory of money and what it taught you, what comes up for you? Yeah, I was, like, scared of the conversation. a bit only because, you know, my parents separated when I was 13 and my dad left. And the conversation was always about like, what are you leaving me with? Or like, what money do you have that I don't know about? And who's taking this and who's taking that? And it was so tumultuous that it was almost like, man, I don't even want any money from these people. Like, I want to figure out how I'm going to take care of myself. And it probably confused me into thinking that money was really all you needed to be happy and fulfilled, like that everything would go away as long as I could have a certain level of money and that there'd be a level of validation that I would live my life with if I had money.

5:15Like you'll see me differently and I'll feel differently if I have money. And that's just because it was only seen in a negative light for me. And you often find that with this money narrative that we're talking about now, It has nothing to do with money. There's something else under it. So for Jaylen, when you think about you just talked about that early memory of money with your mom. It sounds like she was a provider, but you may have wanted more, which made you think of how do I get more? How did that play out as you got to high school and then on to college? Yeah, I think as basketball came into the picture, you know, things kind of shifted.

5:50my platform and my level of play kind of demanded a level of attention that you know it wasn't necessarily monetary wealth but you could see like wealth was being accumulated like I didn't have to pay for camps anymore or my mom didn't have to pay for camps anymore I'm at around 13 or 14 years old I didn't have to pay for basketball sneakers anymore anything basketball related traveling or going to tournaments, like, you know, I had to pay for, like, just your normal everyday expenses, food or travel or hotel. But for the most part, everything from then had been covered. So, you know, as basketball came into the picture, it also kind of brought value in a different way that kind of shifted that dynamic at a very early age.

6:35And what did that do to your relationship with you and your mom as it related to money? Because it sounds like some of that pressure came, was relieved for her, and you were able to also do something that you love. Yeah, and that was my motivation. Okay. It wasn't necessarily for myself. It was for the both of us. So to alleviate pressure. I didn't want her. She already worked hard enough in Atlanta. And then it's traffic. It's a bunch of other things that go into the mental health. So I just wanted to alleviate any pressure I could on my side. So any expenses, don't worry about it. Anything, Mom, don't worry about it.

7:11I'll take care of it. I just wanted to help out as much as I could. I feel like, you know, we were talking about this, Jack and I, before. There's almost like two stages, at least when you were a rookie 10 years ago, where, like, you make money, and that checks those first few boxes, right, where you're not necessarily thinking about, like, what you have. You just are now getting paid for what you do, and you've gotten to this place that you wanted to be in, so you can help your mom out, and she doesn't have to stress those bills anymore. But you don't really necessarily feel wealthy, wealthy, until you get that next kind of payday.

7:47When you first got in the league, was that really what it was? Because I feel like now with what a lot of guys get paid when they're young, you almost have lost a little bit of like, all right, I'm making money, but I don't really need the illest car right off the bat. I don't need a chef from day one. I'm just like playing at the highest level league now, and I don't have to worry about my bills. you know what I mean yeah yes it is interesting because like at an early age when you come into large amounts of wealth you don't really know what to even do with it yeah you know so the first three years in my career I still live like I was in college yeah you know I ate like I didn't have a chef I ate like the same type of foods uh uh uh ubered uh didn't have a car didn't like but I went and go out and buy, like, some, you know, nice car.

8:43You know, I kind of just operated like I was still in college for the first three. My idea of money was kind of like didn't really settle in yet. And, you know, over time, you kind of either realize some things or you also lose touch of some things as well. So it can go both ways. What were the messages you heard about money growing up that helped to create that way of thinking? I think UC Berkeley helped out a lot. Okay. You know, because I'm from Atlanta, so I'm used to the people around me. Nice cars, diamond earrings, nice watch, etc. When I went to UC Berkeley, it completely, like, shifted my understanding of, like, what cool or what things were.

9:22What Flash was. Yeah, you know what I mean? Because, like, you know, it wasn't about that. It was about, you know, what type of, you know, what was your passion? What were you passionate about? or what was your level of intelligence or what things in the world do you want to change? That was the cool things at UC Berkeley. It wasn't the kind of car you had or what kind of shoes you had on or none of that. So it was a complete flip from where I grew up in inner city Atlanta, Cobb County. And it kind of just changed my mindset completely and helped me kind of figure out what do I actually care about versus what do the world want me to care about?

10:04So, Jaylen, I'm jumping in my seat because what you're talking about are your values with money. And once you can lock in on your values and use that as your guide to how you deal with money, the experiences that you want to have, it shifts everything. So for you, when you think of those core values, what are they for money? And for life, too, because it's probably a pull through with everything that you do. I would say community is one. You know, I know a lot of people look at like, you know, I'm going to make as much money that I'm going to give back to my community, like 10 percent or something like that.

10:35I flip it. How can I invest in my community first and then figure out how I can make monetary value in a different way? So I'm always looking about doing projects that align with myself, but also align with my community that solve problems and create solutions. So community is a big one of my values. I don't know. That's the first one that comes to mind, at least. It's funny. I feel like athletes, more so than anyone else I've seen that are able to come into wealth at such a young age, have such a desire to give back at such a young age and to create impact or to, in your case, invest in your community.

11:15Whereas you see people that grew up with money or people that made truckloads of money in finance in their 20s and 30s don't even think about things like that. What do you think that comes from? That feeling of, you know, even in some cases going back to your rec center you grew up in and making sure you refurbish that the second you get money. Where do you think that comes from in athletes? Circumstance, I think certain environments, circumstances and resources that people overcame, you know, doesn't mean they forget what they, you know, what they saw in their neighborhood or what they saw in their community.

11:54So they want to help and they want to fix. If you grew up in a circumstance where you didn't see those things, you can kind of be out of touch with the reality of some of these communities and environments that are around you. Yeah, and you almost feel like this place right here, this group of people, this block, this coach, this gym, this school, without all of that, I wouldn't be here. You know what I'm saying? Like, it could have gone that way. So who am I to, like, not look back kind of thing? I feel that. But that doesn't necessarily resonate all the time with the people around you or the people you grew up with, right?

12:38And in a lot of cases when, you know, not just your friends, sometimes your family, when you are that person, that first person in that group to make some money, right? Like, all your friends didn't go to Berkeley. They all didn't see something different. Now, how did you tackle that? Or was it not even something that stressed you out early on when you started making money? I saw that at a very early age. Like, growing up in Atlanta, like, there's a lot of talent. A lot of people want to be athletes. A lot of people want to be musicians, actresses or actors, or just people that we see on TV. So as a 15-, 16-year-old, you could already start to see my projection because I was highly ranked, highly touted.

13:24I was being talked about. I was on TV at an early age. But I also come from the same backgrounds that a lot of my peers around me came from, single-parent household, lack of resources, lack of opportunity. But they're seeing me start to separate myself, right? So naturally, I had to learn to deal with envy. I've had an immense amount of luck and favor from the creator to help me get to where I am. And I also was raised by a great mother and family who instilled the right values. But a lot of it comes down to how the ball falls. And some people will have those opportunities and some people won't.

14:05So when they see someone who comes from a similar situation that's getting the opportunities that they're not naturally friends, family, people around start to envy you and you don't understand why. I didn't understand why I 16. I didn't understand why I 17. I didn't understand why I 18. As I got older, I could step back and see kind of the way America is kind of set up and designed. You know, it makes more sense. Let's dig into that envy a little bit. And I want to really understand how it, what it did to you. So as you think about your relationship with money, we all have emotions with money, right?

14:41And for you, it may have been by me having these opportunities, other people are looking at me differently. They see me. I'm just Jalen. I'm the same person you've always known. But now there are these expectations. So when you think back on that time in your life, what are the emotions that come up knowing that people that you once were cool with are now envious? Because of experiences, that's a great question. Because of experiences that, you know, that you've had can, you know, alter kind of how you have your next experience. I think stoicism is something that I had to develop where it's like, I wouldn't say no emotion, but it's like you're just the same every single day.

15:21Because, you know, friends, family, they can let you down, man. They can disappoint you in ways that it hurts you in ways that it changes you. You know, and the amount of money, the amount of clout, the amount of fame that you're able to acquire puts pressure on the people around you, especially the ones closest to you. And sometimes that can cause damage to relationships unintentionally just by you just being successful or you just trying to help your community or you just trying to be the best version you could possibly be for your family. So for me, the emotion that I've developed is almost no emotion.

15:58Where you just learn to be stoic, you just learn to be even keel and kind of like just don't get too high, too low. You know, you just make decisions based off of the information that you get and the amount of energy that you want to put into something that makes you feel good about yourself and what you're supposed to do. And you just keep it at that. Yeah, it definitely, I would imagine the dynamics change on relationships that you always saw in a certain way. You know, I've experienced that not probably to the degree you do, but where you're talking to somebody and you're like, man, we don't even talk like that.

16:36Right. Like, that's not how we communicate. Like, I actually need I need some game from you. I need some advice from you. I need some support from you. Like, yes. OK, cool. I'll give you money. But like, we talk like this or don't even talk to me differently. it's a little bit of like a mind fuck, right? Because you see people, people that are older than you, that are talking to you in a certain way that you never wanted them to. And it almost makes you like, at least for me at times, it'd be like, I don't even want to tell you what's going on. You know what I'm saying? Like, in your case, it's so public, right?

17:09You sign a contract, it's so public, but it's almost like, man, I don't even want you to know everything I'm doing. You ever feel that feeling? Man, all too much. you're making me think about a lot of different situations and conversations. I think that's the hardest part for a young man and young woman. But that's been the hardest part for me to navigate, you know, because it puts you on an island, isolates you. Conversations become, you know, invoices. Like it just gets, it gets, the lines get blurred, you know, and it gets tough. And as a young man, it puts you away from and disconnected to certain things where it feels like if you need something or you want to go somewhere, you can't even go there.

17:57But as you mature, you get used to it and you learn to find whatever solace that you need. But if you're talking about the emotion of money, that's the, I think, one of the most important conversations is that shift, that dynamic shift, and how that affects the mental health of yourself. I have a question for you. Okay. I was going to have a question for you, too. Well, let me go first. You go first. Have you noticed like when you've heard stories like this from people that you work with that there becomes this like resentment of money in some ways? I yes. Resentment, shame, fear. You can have a lot of money and be ashamed that you have a lot of money because now your family doesn't want to hang out with you anymore.

18:46They think you've changed. I think what we're talking about are all these emotions that come up in your life. And as it changes the emotions, we don't talk about these emotions of I am, you know, I feel like my family might be using me. I feel like I don't have these honest relationships anymore. And then how do you deal with it? Which gets us to this place of communication of how do we talk about this more? How do we have more open conversations of this journey with money? Because you may not have millions of dollars. You may have hundreds of thousands of dollars in a bank or a few dollars in the bank.

19:15And it's still going to be this journey with money of dealing with your family. How do you support family members, dealing with friends and family? How do you show up for events and things like that? It's all a part of those emotions and we got to have those communications. What was your question for me? So he mentioned the solace of in this journey with money, what is that for you? So you've had those instances where you didn't know how people, how genuine they were. What keeps you grounded? One. And then what is your test to know yes, no? Like I trust, I don't trust. I got one for you. Okay, go ahead.

19:54I got one question for you. This is, for me, this has been one of the hardest things. And it's probably one of the more vulnerable conversations I've had. But how do you ask for help? because everybody presumes that, you know, you're rich climbing. You know, you got it all figured out. You got the money to pay for whatever you need. And we both know, because I've been in that experience, that you need help in some capacity, you know, and people around you, you don't necessarily feel like you can ask for help. Like, how do you go about that? Yeah, I mean, I think, well, first of all, even hearing you say that, Like, it's not even, that doesn't even exist in my mind yet.

20:42You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't even operate on that level because I feel like my whole life I've just been looking forward. I've been thinking about what more I have to do. I've been setting a new goal or dream. And it was never just about money. It was like a feeling. Like, I just want to, I wanted to feel a certain feeling. Some of it is for sure this thing of like when people say money can't buy happiness and I'm kind of like, are you sure? Like, are you sure? Because I can tell you right now, watching your credit card bill and watching your bank account, that is not a happy feeling.

21:18So when you don't have to worry about that anymore, like that is a level of happiness, like for real. And that is like uncomfortable for people to say. It doesn't mean it's instead of, right? Like if other shit in your life is a mess, if somebody's sick, if your family breaks up, right, or just have things that you can't control, real mental illness, no, money can't fix all of that, right? I lead with a curious confidence. And I'm really honest about what I don't know and who I am and who I'm not. But also, when someone comes to me, I'm not trying to answer their question as if I really have the answer.

21:56I have my answer. You know what I'm saying? And so I think sometimes it's just setting the reality of like the situation that somebody. So when I say to someone like, yo, I think I know what I'm supposed to do here. I think I could get this done. But like, what do you think? Like, does this sound crazy? Like, am I totally reading this wrong? Am I seeing myself wrong? It allows people to really give you real feedback. You know, one of the hardest things for me with money is not allowing the goalposts to keep moving. and you mentioned that you're like, I'm looking straight ahead. What's next? What's the next achievement?

22:30And it's easy to continue to have next, next, next versus enough. So for you, what is enough? And for you, what is enough? Jayla, what does that look like? Enough meaning what? Financially, emotionally, what is your enough? Is it a number? Is it a lifestyle? Is it a place? What is your enough? and how will you know when you get there? A, I think not ever feeling like there's enough is my oxygen, so I don't know if I could ever cut that off. But number two is, like, I don't want anyone around me to stress money, and maybe that means I don't have the right relationship with it yet, but I don't want my kids or my kids' kids to worry about money.

23:21I don't want them to think about that. So I think the answer for me will be if I ever feel that, then I won't probably feel like myself. If someone said, hey, this is it. I actually left the job once because somebody said to me, like, man, this is incredible. Like, this salary is incredible. You should think about buying a home for you and your family out here in the suburbs. And I remember looking like, damn, that's what they think this is. Like, they think this is it. This is not it for me. Like, I can't do that. I can't even have that spoken about. How about you, Danny? I think that's a great answer.

23:57I mean, I think for me, I think enough. I think God has already provided me with more than I could ever have imagined. If I never make another dollar in this lifetime again, I'm extremely grateful for everything that I have. So for me, my approach is everything that I gain from this moment on or in the future will be with the intent to invest back into my community or invest back into the next generation. So I have everything that I could have imagined, and I'm extremely grateful for that. Yeah, I was just going to say, I think sometimes, you know, if I had certain milestones or certain credentials or records or championships that could quantify maybe what I do, I would feel similar ways at times.

24:58You know, it's like you probably financially feel fulfilled in some ways, right? You have made more than you could ever have imagined, and you know if you keep working on your craft, you're going to make more money. But I would imagine that as grateful as you are for your success on the court, that drive is not in any way plateaued, right? For sure. And I think that that is sometimes what I want to clarify. It's not money when I say the goalposts. And I feel like that's mental wealth. It's having that clarity of the life that I want to have is X. and you visualize that and now we're working towards it.

25:41A little bit about me, I'm a breast cancer survivor since 30 years old. So I think when I was younger, my trajectory for my career and money was always more, like more promotions, bigger, bigger, bigger. And when you have that type of clarity come in your life, it turns into it's my kids. It's sitting here and having this really great conversation with you. You just gain so much clarity. And now I can take that clarity and apply it to my money. So that same level of clarity of the life that I want to have 50 years from now when I'm, you know, 100 and whatever years old, having that clarity for your money.

26:20And it sounds like for you, Jalen, you are starting to have that clarity of knowing the legacy that you want to have through giving back. So let's pretend you are 100 years old, sitting in that rocking chair on the front porch, and you're thinking back on your life. What is your legacy and how did money support it? I mean, that's tough. You know, I think that hopefully as I sit back and look that it's a lot of people, a lot of lives that I was able to touch and help in different ways. but it's hard to really look, think 100 years, 70 years from now, where I'm still trying to plan out the next six months to a year to five years to 10 years, especially with everything shifting right now.