Kelsey Plum Gets Real About Money, Success, & the Future of Women's Hoops

0:00You don't start easy, do you? Only deep questions. It was a blessing because you don't really get a lot of resets in life. I saw Diana Chirasi play on TV. I knew in that moment I'm going to be going to the league. It's more than money. People kind of look at you different. When you walk into a room, it's like, oh, technically I didn't sign a million dollar contract. I signed 999. So people do actually try to hand me a dollar when I walk in some places just as a joke. You were supposed to gasp. If you don't play at a really high level, I mean, it's the end of the world over there. You're kind of just thrown into the fire.

0:30and you gotta just decide like, all right, I'm gonna run from this or I'm just gonna dig my heels and find a way. I know in Kevin's case, there was a lot of questioning of like, who am I? So I have nine to 12 months to reshape myself physically, mentally, and spiritually. You guys are part of history and that history will result in riches for you guys, but it will really manifest for future generations. The goal would be to have a player sign for eight figures. Welcome to Mental Wealth, brought to you by Boardroom and Ally Bank. In this series, we'll unpack the lessons learned from the financial journeys of some of the greatest minds in sports and entertainment.

1:09My name is Rich Kleiman, and this is Boardroom and Ally's Mental Wealth. And today, I'm sitting with my new dear friend, the head of money wellness, Jack Howard. What up, though? How y 'all doing? I got no kind of applause. Unbelievable. Okay, give Rich a round, y 'all. Let's do it again. Hey, okay. But let's save the biggest one for our next guest. And to my right, we have Olympian Kelsey Plum.

1:45How you doing? Doing great. Happy to be here. How y 'all doing? So how are you feeling? How would you say Kelsey Plum is doing right now in her life? I know that you have a slight injury and you'll be sitting out tomorrow, but how are you feeling overall about where you're at in your career right now? And when you think about a weekend like this and you've been to a bunch of these, how has it evolved throughout your career? You don't start easy, do you? No, I only go only deep questions. I'm feeling great. I'm right there on the return to play process. You know, I'll be honest, it's been a little bit difficult for me, you know, as someone that's a competitor playing at a really high level, got hurt, you know, trying to claw your way back.

2:25And I think that, you know, throughout the journey, it's funny, my first All-Star was here in 2022. And then here we are five years later. And it's kind of just cool to reflect. I've kind of been reflecting throughout the weekend. Like, I just remember I was like this couple year player in the league, kind of a baby, just experiencing all this for the first time. And it's grown tremendously. just the opportunities that we're getting the money the representation i just feel super proud you know trying to keep pushing the envelope so we're here talking mental wealth and as the head of money wellness tell us what that role means and define mental wealth for us yeah so everybody i'm jack howard head of money wellness at ally bank and what does mental wealth mean it's more than numbers it's about your relationship with money it's what your parents taught you about money, your beliefs.

3:14It's about your values and your mindset and how that really shows up to help you live an amazing life today, tomorrow, and someday. So it's about your behaviors. It's about all of that. It's more than money, Rich. It's more than money. It's more than money, which brings me to my first question, Kelsey. So a big piece of money wellness is really understanding how your past and your beliefs show up in your money today. So when you think back to your childhood, and I I know you come from a family of athletes, so I'm sure it was some competition, some rigor in how you grew up. Your parents, I was listening to a podcast, and you said how your parents, when you had to drive to a basketball tournament, they made you print out the MapQuest.

3:58Like, there was a level of responsibility there. So I'm curious, how did that show up in what you learned about money? What was your first memory of money? MapQuest aging me. you know I'm so fortunate to grow up in a family that um really preached generosity and um I think that's kind of what I try to look at money through a lens of and I remember growing up just you know being in a family that had two parents in the household and you know the fridge was full with food and we would always invite people over just figuring out how to you know like serve people with our time with our with our money with our energy and um you know for me I think now as an adult, that was so impactful and just seeing the imprint it has on people.

4:42And cause I think it's more than money, generosity, right? It's your time, it's your spirit, it's your energy. So I think for me, like now making decisions about things that I want to do in my career or, you know, with my investments is really trying to look like how this is going to impact maybe my family, how is this going to impact women? How's this going to impact, you know, the future generation? Like those are all questions that I have in the back of my mind. And, you know, I really give that credit to my, to my parents. Growing up, I was thinking about this on my way here to talk to you is when you think about the work that goes into becoming a professional athlete and the dedication and support you need from everyone around you, but most of all, the work you have to put in, the commitment you have to put in, even though it's about the game first, there is this understanding once you start to get good and realize that you're good, that making it professionally can change your life financially and change the life of people around you.

5:36The realities of the league that you've played in for so long was that that wasn't necessarily the case. So it really had to be about the love of the game. Were you cognizant of that? Was that something that you understood and realized as you put this work and effort and time in that you wanted to reach this ultimate goal, but you understood just the discrepancy in pay that existed? Absolutely. I mean, you're definitely initially when I became a professional athlete are doing it for the love of the game. I mean, I spent my first three years professionally going to Turkey and playing overseas, living there for months at a time, longer than I was in the States.

6:14And that's just to try to figure out how to make more money, right? Because my rookie salary, you know, I was the number one pick coming out in 2018. I think it was$56 ,000. Yeah. You were supposed to gasp. Yeah. I think I heard it. But I think, you know, looking at where it was then, it is now, and where it's going to continue to go. One, I'm proud. And then two, it's interesting. People kind of look at you different. When you walk into a room, it's like, oh, like, you know, this person signed. Well, technically, I didn't sign a million-dollar contract. I signed 999. So people do actually try to hand me a dollar when I walk in some places just as a joke.

6:57It's different. And like you said, and I think that gap is going to continue to close, but I'm proud to be in that transition, seeing where it's been and then where it's going. Let's dig into your relationship with money going from that$50 ,000 to a million dollars. What comes up for you when you think about, you know, being a rookie and starting out with that pay to get to the place that where you are now? It's got to be, I don't know, frustration. I know you're proud now, but what are the words behind your relationship with money through the journey? I think I've been very unattached personally.

7:31And, you know, I've never done it for the money. You know, my motivation has always been one to be the best basketball player I could possibly be to to impact people, particularly young people. I think the other thing would just be to, I think, show young girls. I remember growing up not having a ton of female role models, watching people do it and just making it very abundantly clear that you can do it. Whatever you want, put your mind to, you really can do it. And so, yeah, I've never done it for the money. And so now that money's coming in, it's an amazing blessing. But that's not like the driver.

8:09So I think that I'm grateful for that because I think that, you know, you can ride the highs and lows of money. Right. And I'm sure you've done it with businesses, investments, things like that. Things are going great. Things are not going great. But if you play like it's pretty steady, ultimately you double down on your craft and how good you can be. And you chase that. The money is really just a byproduct and it comes in. You mentioned going overseas and some women that I've spoke to have had incredible experiences going overseas. Some have not and seen it as strictly something that they had to do to support their family.

8:44Was the experience for you enjoyable? Was it stressful to have to leave your country, to have to go support yourself and support your family and make a living? And, you know, how did you see that process? Was it just something that you saw as a necessity for yourself? Or was it something that you really felt like you wanted to do for the love of the game again? Well, I definitely wanted to play, right? Because six months is a long time to just train. So I wanted to play. And I realized starting to play games and stuff, if you don't play at a really high level, I mean, it's the end of the world over there.

9:18And I learned very quickly that level of pressure and expectation. And so you just kind of have to figure it out. You're kind of just thrown into the fire. And you got to just decide, like, all right, I'm going to run from this. Or I'm just going to dig my heels and find a way. And it took time. I mean, they were like, we want to cut you. This is like, you know, this is not what we asked for. You're supposed to be this really good player. You're awful. And, you know, I just started chipping away and chipping away. And then by the end of the season, you know, I got where I needed to be as a player and really not, you know, letting adversity, you know, hold me back.

9:57There was another question you said, and honestly, oh, you know what? The one other thing that I really appreciate is the culture. you know when you are out of the United States for six months out of a time you learn to be so much more grateful for the little things and not just you know familiarities like family but ordering food or you know getting a taxi and you know fortunately for me I kind of look Turkish I have like thick eyebrows and like dark hair so people would just walk up right to me and say like, Merhaba, Nasir Sen, Im Sen, and I'm just like, whoa, you know, I don't know what's going on.

10:32But it was funny, because when I first got here to Chicago this weekend, I got my eyebrows done, and I walked in, and the women were speaking Turkish. And it just, it's kind of, again, a full circle moment. I'm like, I said, Merhaba, she looked at me like, what? You know that. Right, you know. Yeah, so I'll say all that to say, I do think it, you know, helps you build perspective. What was competition like? Was it one of these things where you felt like you did refine your game and actually become better as a player playing over there? Absolutely. I mean, at the time when I first came into the league, overseas was pretty much every high-level American player would go overseas, right?

11:10So you're playing in your domestic league, which is a Turkish league. Then you're playing in Euroleague. So you have two to three games a week, and it's extremely high level. There's a ton of stakes on the line. You know, you got a lot of people, you know, yelling at you in Turkish that you got to play. Well, every game I was playing against an all-star in my position. So it really did refine me. And those competition days, you have to perform. And I think that I played in so many big games, the pressure or the intensity, it doesn't really bother you anymore. Hearing you talk about your career in basketball, it makes me smile.

11:43Because I feel like you have so much joy and love for the game and grit. and you want it regardless of the money. And I think that's a great example of mental wealth and living a life that's really grounded in your values. So what would you say are your values and what's anchoring you, not only in basketball, but also in life? What's anchoring you? What are your values? Well, I would say first and foremost, my belief in God and living with a level of integrity. You know, who you are in one room is who you are in every room. And I truly do believe that the way you treat people, how you make people feel, that's what impact is and then I think from there you know basketball specifically is about consistency I think just falling in love with the process of the work and just trying to get better every day and you can't you know in this in this journey what I've learned is you can't care what people think you can't care what the media says you can't care what you know all these outside factors think it's really just about do you believe in what you're doing and do you believe in who you want to be and you go get it and don't take no for an answer.

12:49So using those values as your foundation I know you're healing right now you've had some other injuries what happens you know in those moments when you have to be still what comes up for you? It's rough it's rough it's been really hard for me um I will say the past you know four or five weeks I've been dealing with a calf uh calf strain you know you go to games and you're sitting on on the bench watching your team play, you're like, man, like, I want to be out there. But I do know that God has always directed my steps. And I know that when I do come back, I'll be playing, you know, the highest level of basketball in the world.

13:28And I'm gonna help my team win games. And so I know if I know that, and I rest in that, then in these moments, it's hard to be still, but knowing that I think brings a lot of peace. To your Achilles injury and the year you miss. And when Jack and I were talking before she mentioned that she had heard you talk about how that was actually in a lot of ways a refreshing year of your life. I know in Kevin's case there was a lot of questioning of like who am I right like without basketball and and what does this look like if this game is taken away from me but financially he wasn't stressed. Was there any thought that went through your mind of like if this was taken away from me like what do I do like what do I do with what's in my heart you know, how am I going to support my family and what's next?

14:14Or were you just tunnel vision on the idea that you knew you would be back? Yeah, you know what? I hate to say it, but I knew I was going to be back. And I knew that it was a blessing because you don't really get a lot of resets in life. You don't get a lot of opportunities to like, okay, pause. Let's reflect on how my life is going personally, professionally, you know, and I have, you know, with an Achilles injury, It's usually like nine to 12 months. So I have nine to 12 months to reshape myself physically, mentally and spiritually. And I happen to be able to get an Achilles injury in covid.

14:52So it was kind of like the world was standing still in a way. And so I just remember having the luxury and a lot of people don't get to say this, but like I had the luxury to I didn't feel like I missed much. And so I popped back up after covid and I felt like I got shot out of a cannon. It was one of the first times in my life that I felt like I got to be able to reset, come out, and just be whoever I wanted to be and imagined to be in that time period. And I just tried to never look back since. I feel like female athletes are some of the best storytellers in sports. I think there's this incredible instinct on how to position yourself and be creative and differentiate yourself.

15:31And some of you and your peers, I think, do it as well as anybody. When did building a brand or understanding your value off the court come into play? And what was your approach to it early on in your career and as you've become a bigger star? Well, Rich, we weren't making any money a while ago. So we didn't have a choice. Yeah, I know. But honestly, I think the intent has never been necessarily to build a brand as much as it's been to just be myself. And I think that's when the genuine connection happens, right? When people can relate one-on-one, people can feel like, you know, your feet are on the ground and you see them.

16:11I think that makes more of an impact than anything. And so for me, I've always just tried to be myself. And to be fair, I say things sometimes I get in trouble, maybe with the media or whatever, because I'm just honest. But I think having an opinion and just kind of having a personality and being a little bit outgoing, that's who I am. That's who I'm always going to be. and I kind of just rest in that knowing that I've never been anyone than myself. Rich, I'm going to toss it to you because you've worked with athletes and hearing Kelsey talk about her authenticity, what's the secret sauce? We know you can see what's in her, but if you were to talk to other rookies in the room or looking to get into the space of better branding themselves, what would you say?

16:55Yeah, I mean, I think it's different for every athlete and everybody, period. I think it has to start with a bit of a vision that you set for yourself. And the vision should change and evolve through time. But when you set that vision and you create a bit of a North Star for yourself, the same way the North Star as a player is like, I'm working towards this goal. It's important to have some goal of what that means for yourself year in and year out. I also think that there's kind of two ways at looking how you build a brand. There's the obvious, more traditional ways of getting a brand deal and getting your face out there and making money for your time.

17:32But when you're a professional athlete at any level, you are well received and loved in any room you walk into. So the goal is to take that as a tool as you enter into rooms and allow yourself to be curious and meet as many people as possible. And lead with the idea that A, you're authentic and B, I am one of the best in the world at what I do. people gravitate towards that. And when you do that and you allow yourself to broaden your network and meet people, opportunity comes. So then you do one thing, which is get your name and your face out there. You tell an authentic story about yourself. You align with brands that are in line with who you are.

18:10And then you put yourself out in the world. You know, you can't do anything unless you're outside of it. And you allow yourself to experience things, see things. So much of what I've learned in my career has been from watching and observing and then realizing where I could fit in and what my play was. So I think it's important when you're so good at what you do to understand that people want to be around you and take advantage of that. And I think it's also this balance of you have to be delusional. Like if nobody else does it, I'm going to do it. I'm going to make it up and actually execute it.

18:40So same question for you, Kelsey, for the rookies out there who are looking to build a brand and just growing the game, what would you tell them? I mean, for the rookies out there, for any human being out there, if you want to, you know, make an impact and take a chance on yourself it's the best thing to ever do I mean you know I know you dropped out of school to start making things happen like you had to bet on yourself to do that I was literally betting as well literally I remember when I was 10 years old I uh I saw Diana Chirassi play on tv and I knew in that moment I walked right into the kitchen I told my mom I said hey mom I just want to let you know it wasn't like a question it was like hey mom I just want to let you know I'm going to be going to the league and what did your mom say I mean I give her a lot of credit she just kind of looked at me and nodded and was like oh okay let me know whatever I can do to help you and she she told me later when I got into the league and you know when I started playing she said I actually walked into another room and cried because I saw how much you believed in that and I frankly just did the math and thought well do you know the odds of that even being a possibility you know it's not like I mean I'm a 5 '8 you know no one no one plays basketball in my family it's not like I come from this lineage of crazy height or athleticism or anything like that.

20:11And my mom just was like, I knew I wasn't going to tell you no, but I had to really like gather myself. So here we are now, but I think that's a delusional confidence that you have to have. But you put in the work to get there. And I think for me teaching money wellness at Ally, I find that oftentimes people have this vision of themselves and it's a gap between your values and the actual work that it takes to get there. What was the grind to get there? What's the sauce that you had that everybody else doesn't? I mean, Rich knows it evolves. It evolves over time. It sharpens. It refines. You find what works for you.

20:47But I think setting those goals and that vision is most important because it's easy to be motivated initially, but when things get hard, that's when people fall off because they can't see that North Star. So just setting that North Star, whether that's in a day-to-day setting a week to week a year to year um I always wrote down what I wanted in that season that year and then just started being very specific and chipping away you know I think that you start from the end goal you work backwards and being very specific but yeah the work it's part of the process and you got to fall in love with it if you really do want to be great at something you have to really fall in love with the process and you're in the trenches you know it's funny because As you said, Rich, you know, and I don't because I never could do what you could do or what any professional athlete could do.

21:37I do understand now, and I think a lot of the reason I understand is because of the time I've spent around professional athletes. When I switched over from music to sports, I've told this story before, one of the first things that I did was take a trip with Kevin to China with Nike. We took this 19-hour plane ride there on the Nike jet. I had never seen anything like this in the music world and we got off the plane and I thought we were either going to the hotel to sleep or going out. That was just like what the music business was. And when we got off, someone from Nike came over with two basketballs in their hand and handed it to Kevin.

22:13And I was like, do you want him to sign this? And they were like, no, he's going to the gym. And I said, you're going to the gym right now. And he's like, yeah, they get shots up. And I do think that what happens to a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of people is the dreaming is great. The vision is great. Maybe you can network. But what gets lost a lot is exactly what Kelsey talked about. There is so much work and the work that athletes put in is so regimented and so disciplined that nothing gets in the way of it. And that's why when you hear so many athletes get interviewed after a game and the announcer asks them this big, like, philosophical question.

22:49And they say, well, I just put the work in every day because it's that much time and effort and work to get to where you are. I want to go back to you mentioning the CBA and you mentioned your salary. And tell me if I'm wrong with this. I read that what you're making this year is more than all the other years throughout your career combined on court. You guys are part of history, what's happening right now. and that history will result in riches for you guys but it will really manifest for future generations how does that make you feel in terms of this generation's impact not only on today but the future of this game just proud just proud and i think that you know it's it's funny i see all these little girls get off the elevator and um it's come through my mind i'm like some of these girls are going to reap the, you know, the benefit of, you know, what's happening now and how special to be able to say that.

23:51You know, the goal would be in the next CBA to have a player sign for eight figures. You know, I think that's where, you know, it's going. And so it's really cool. That mentorship and the hope and the growth that you saw in those young ladies, it comes from your leadership. It comes from laying the foundation now, which I know you are looking to lay that same foundation with your leadership in L.A. So as you think about, you know, being a pivotal figure for your team, a leader, what's the legacy you want to live there and just the joy you want to bring to the game by being there? yeah you know I think that um winning is part of the legacy so that's really been my goal and it's it's been a struggle you know be completely transparent obviously like being injured last year we were one game out the playoffs and so just trying to you know transform an organization that's again talk about betting on yourself I took a risk you know I left Las Vegas it's like perennial champions some of the greatest players of all time hall of fame coach said you know what Like, I think there's more out there for me in terms of a leadership role.

25:00And I want to take a chance on that. And so far, not so good, to be honest. Tell me more. In terms of, like, the overall result, right? But I think that that really makes you think, like, okay, do I really want this? Right? Because if there wasn't any adversity or resistance, then why are we doing it? Like, if it's easy and everyone else is doing it, then you're probably not doing it right. So I think that the more adversity and the more resistance is like, okay, that means something's coming. That is so hard to do for most people to pick the hard lane, to pick the work. So kudos for you. Now, as you think about building the team and we got to get back to money.

25:40So building the team and I know that, you know, basketball is bringing you a lot of joy. When you think of your money and using that for joy, what comes up for you now? Yeah, you know, I think one of the most proud moments in my professional career is creating Dog Class, which is basically a platform to help college women. The women finish their NCAA tournament. There's a week. They're drafted. They're in the city. They start training camp. They have 10 days of hell in training camp, and they either make the team or they don't. And a lot of rookies that get cut, they don't really get an opportunity to get back into the league.

26:19and it's ruthless. And I just remember thinking, going through that process, man, I wish I would have known how to do this. I wish I would have known what to expect in camp, what to expect in the league, what things I should have prepared for better in college, on the court, off the court. They don't tell you about. And so creating that bridge is something that I'm super proud of. And obviously, I didn't get an opportunity to do it this year because I switched shoe brands, but moving forward, that's something that's really important to Adidas and I I think that, you know, I think we're going to be able to really impact these young women to just help them have a better life, but then also to to chase their dreams.

26:55I just want to call out real quick. In the beginning, she said her first memory of money was giving through your parents. And now when I ask you what brings you joy, you say giving again. So it makes me smile because that's what mental wealth is. It's being consistent with those values and it's showing up over and over and over again for you. So I'm so excited to see where things go with that. And to that, do you think as you think about life after basketball, although you I'm sure have many more years to play, do you even think about what the life of Kelsey Plum would be after basketball? Is it what you're talking about and some of the motivation to give back to this game and give back to these young women?

27:39Are there other things that you think about potentially doing later on in life? Yeah, you know, I think I'm trying to take it a day at a time. But in the vision aspect, I do know that I think I can help transform organizations. I don't know what that looks like, if that's more of a consulting role, if that's more a role in being a president of an organization. I'm not really sure what that looks like. But I do try to, you know, have relationships and watch people in those settings, see how they see how they live. And I do know one thing, like I want to have an amazing family, an amazing marriage, amazing life in terms of like a balanced life after basketball.