Nneka Ogwumike Reveals Why She Is Retiring From The WNBA

0:00This is going to be quite the shock to many people. I am retiring from the WNBA. I never thought that I would play this long. Wow, okay. Tell me more. Never thought that I would be the type of player that I would play this long. You are averaging 17 points, 9 rebounds, shooting almost 53 % from the field. You are playing at Ogwumike, into the lane, got it to go. An elite level. You could easily continue dominating in this league. So what is telling you that it's done with the WNBA? Okay. You're like, whoa, whoa, it is a little. No, but I'm glad you clarified. What's your percentage? And I was like, uh, 98.

0:36And they're like, what? Whoa, it's high. It's high. I think we're never really satisfied, you know, with how we exist in this world as women, as black women, as women in sport. I would be lying if I didn't say that I felt like them kind of like, you know, putting their hand on my shoulder. Yeah. Like, you've done well. The burden that was the heaviest was having to to fight for people who would probably not fight for you. Can I selfishly ask if you would ever consider being commissioner?

1:09I'm Taylor Rooks and I'm here with the one, the only, champion WMVP, a president, former league MVP, you already know who it is, the one, the only, Nneka Agumake. I am so happy to be here with you, Queen. Thank you, Taylor. It is such a pleasure to be sitting here with you in all of your glory. I am so honored to be doing this interview with you, but I'm also happy to be sitting with our friend here. You know, I always love seeing our friend. I'm sure you do. What comes to mind when you look at this trophy? Honestly, really my teammates. You know, thinking about the teammates that I've played with and the journey of it all.

1:48I always like to tell anybody who has the chance to experience something like this, that once you get to the top, you kind of just take a view of the expanse and the journey that it takes to get to the summit. And so a lot of memories come fleshing back. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really special to be sitting here and talking about this because this was 2016. It was 10 years ago. Crazy. When you won a championship, you were MVP. Huge year for you. And you know, I didn't anticipate diving into this this early but I have to say every single time that I hear you talk about your accomplishments or something that you have done you always talk about others which I think is incredibly admirable and I'm just curious when you think of these accomplishments and you think about yourself.

2:38I mean I do. Yeah. I have to get used to you know how it is like I think we're never really satisfied, you know, with how we exist in this world as women, as black women, as women in sport. And then, you know, what we do is competitive by nature, you know. And so I can't help but talk about the community that it takes to get to those things. But I do think once you're in something for a while, you kind of look back and you're like, OK, you know what? I did that. You know, I did that. I can I can eat that a little bit. But I still don't think that I ever feel as though I'm a master at something.

3:22I think that the beauty about life and the beauty about all of our endeavors is that no matter how good you get, there's still something to learn from it. And that's kind of always the perspective that I have. Yeah. I heard you tell Lisa Leslie once that one thing about you is you consider yourself to constantly be a student. How do you think that has feel the greatness that we have seen throughout your entire career? Maintaining a perspective of curiosity is something that can always teach you how to adapt, it can teach you how to reflect, it can reteach you lessons, it can allow you to circle back and learn from other people as well.

3:57And being a student, I think, is a way to just continue to hone in on who you are, who you're becoming, who you want to be. And, you know, in sports, every game isn't the same. And as long as you're playing, you're going to be learning on the fly. And you just you have to I think that it's important to chase getting better, you know, and to also to also chase being great. But then being around others who also make you feel great as well. And there's ways that it can be discovered. There's ways that it can be revealed. And I think staying inspired in that way is important, not just for athletes, but I think especially, you know, I love talking about advocating for black women and the diaspora especially.

4:50I think it's intrinsic to our existence, but when we're able to step into that superpower, that curiosity creates sustainable success in ways that maybe we can't even imagine. Yeah. Something that is so striking to me about you, seeing you right now, every interview I've heard, is you just have such a strong sense of self, and you have an awareness, and I think just a really innate ability to take in life and what is around you, which I think is very hard for people to be present. But in many ways, that seems to be your superpower, one of the things that makes you a great leader, a great basketball player.

5:27Have you always had that? Or is that something that you honed? Definitely haven't always had it. I would even say from day to day, there's times when, you know, you kind of relapse a little bit. I think that giving, giving ourself grace along this journey that is life, you know, that is being a professional woman, you know you can't always expect to be perfect and understanding I guess understanding that every day is not going to be perfect it it makes the imperfection something to kind of look forward to it provides challenges it allows you to know yourself a little bit more I come from a family that is very devoted to culture that is devoted to connectivity and I think that might be a foundation from which I do try to be present.

6:16Well, we're being present, but let's talk about the past for a second. 2016, when you won this trophy, when you think of 2016 you, where have you changed? Where have you stayed the same? I'll tell you where I've stayed the same. Okay, probably a little easier. The changing is a long list. Yes. I'm very disciplined. I am a creature of habit. And one thing I know is that when I have a routine, when I treat my specialty with reverence, that I've seen that it yields the best results for me. and while understanding though that that routine can change but still staying reverent to the process is something that has not and I don't think will ever change for me what I how I prepared for the games 10 years ago is obviously very different now but I don't take for granted that preparation yeah and one thing that I've learned that has changed is that that discipline is most important during stagnancy or plateaus.

7:33You know, a lot of times we talk about in life, you know, you're either entering a storm in a storm or, you know, you're departing a storm. I always like to see life as, you know, almost like a graph. You know, you're going up gradually. Sometimes it's a quick incline. Sometimes you descend quicker than you want to. But the moments where I used to get a lot of anxiety are the plateaus because you're working and nothing really seems to be changing. But the second that you experience that jump, you understand why the discipline was so important. And so what's changed for me is perhaps letting go of the expectations of the discipline and the reverence of that work and understanding that that opportunity is going to find your discipline for you to be able to succeed.

8:28And so I know that's kind of like one thing, but it's a huge through line. Yeah, it's a huge through line for me. Yes. So when you think about 10 years, the fact that it has been 10 years, what perspective does that give you on time?

8:46Honestly, I never thought that I would play this long. Okay, tell me more. Never thought that I would be the type of player that I would play this long. I you know when I was at Stanford I very much knew okay I'm playing basketball at the time when you're entering college four years seems like a very long time then when I became a senior it was Chanae that was like do you know Chanae was early early in her journalist stage do you know you get projected to be number one yeah they say are you going first yeah I'm like okay but But I'm looking to be a doctor. Let me go and enter a post-baccalaureate program.

9:23And she was telling me, oh, school's always going to be there. Just dive into this. And I was like, OK, cool, fine. To be honest, I didn't have any representation of anyone who had successfully done that. Obviously, the WNBA existed. But around that time, we didn't know that you could go overseas and make money. And so I dove into that. And I was like, OK, cool. and as I was playing because the transition was so seamless you know it's very similar you're still going to practice now you're not going to school but now you're creating a new routine where you're filling your time with other things and that became you know wash rinse and repeat and after the years would go by I would just be like okay I play basketball I play basketball and now looking back and seeing you know even 10 years from this and 15 years from starting I'm like oh wow I am that player that I never thought that I would be but I was I was laying the foundation to become and I'm very grateful for that but I've also I think because I've had this level of adaptability and curiosity I wasn't so rigid on how it would happen for me or what would happen for me I just knew that while I was in it I wanted to make sure that I was ready.

10:40Yeah. So you say that you didn't anticipate playing this long, that you didn't know the kind of player you were going to be. I would think you feel as though you exceeded your expectations. I think so. I would say so. I would say so. I think so. Yeah. I'm never satisfied, but I'm proud of what I've done. I will say that I'm proud of what I've done. With all the things you've done, which I will get to your accolades shortly, I'm curious what would make you feel as though you're not satisfied? I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm not satisfied with my career, but I think that I don't want to treat any transition or any change like the end.

11:20You know, I think that I think we're all multifaceted. I think that there's a lot of intersectionality that I've discovered about myself in the process. I mean, when I started playing, I was, I played basketball, I play basketball. And then eventually I was a member of our executive committee. And then I started getting interested in representing the players and understanding the business of basketball from a different lens. And that became a whole nother thing. And being able to evolve in that way has allowed me to understand that there are so many doors and opportunities that are available that can allow me to discover myself, but then also to transition on my own terms.

12:07And that's what I mean when I say that I'm not satisfied, because I think that there's still so much more for me to do. But I am very proud and fulfilled in what I've been able to do on the court. So with that being said, where do you stand on the future of your WNBA career? I mean, so where I stand now is I feel very fulfilled with the 15 years that I've been able to play and compete at such a high level. And I am proud to say that I am retiring from the Dub NBA. What is it like to say it out loud? It feels good. It feels good because I'm doing it on my terms. I'm doing it in a way that I've always kind of envisioned, even though I didn't know what kind of player that I would.

12:54I didn't know what kind of player I could be in this league. Even season to season, I didn't know what kind of player I would be, you know, next year, this year, that year. But I do know how I want to leave the game. I do know how I want to leave my career. I do know how good I feel about what this game has poured into me and also what I've poured into this league. I mean, to hear that you are retiring when right now you are averaging 17 points, nine rebounds, shooting almost 53 % from the field, you are playing at an elite level. This is going to be quite the shock to many people. I mean, you could easily continue dominating in this league.

13:41So if it is in your body that is telling you that is done with the WNBA, what is telling you? It's a little bit my body. Okay. you're like whoa it is a little no but I'm glad you clarified it is a little bit my body okay I still feel very good yeah and you look very good thank you I thank you I still feel very good but I also feel the comfort of slowing down a little bit you know um I I also feel mentally that I I just feel content. I feel very content with where I've left my career with 15 years under my belt. I feel very content about what we were able to achieve coming into this season, where we see the league today.

14:33You know, even when I think about the types of players I've been able to play with, I can say that I've played against Tina Thompson, also against Andrew Reese. Right. You know, I was in the league during the Maya Moore era. I'm in the league during the Asia Wilson era. You know, it is quite amazing for me to to say that I've lived these many lives and many generations across my time in the W. Yeah. Honestly, when you say that, it's it's interesting that talking to you, you can really hear just the story of the WNBA. Like you said, you've played with the past legends, you're playing with the present stars, but then you also created what this league is going to look like for the future stars that are not even in it.

15:21How do you take in the fact that in so many ways, the history is in you, but it has also been caused by you? I think maybe it'll settle in a little bit later for the caused by me portion. I will speak though to the CBA negotiations. I do feel, I do very much feel a part of that after what we went through as an EC and our union and getting the feedback from players both past and present in real time about what we were able to achieve as a group. That definitely is something that is very visceral right now. And as I am still playing, of course, seeing the legends come back and, um, be seamlessly like integrated into the life that is women's basketball today.

16:19I certainly am like, wow, you know, this is, this is, these are the ones that I was growing up watching. These are the ones that I grew up playing with. And, you know, I'm still here. Yeah. Um, standing strong, like how they've taught me. Um, but you know, I would be lying if I didn't say that I felt like them kind of like you know putting their hand on my shoulder

16:46you've done well you know absolutely you know I kind of I kind of feel good about being closer to you know they're you know following their transitions out of out of the game and into this world I had a college professor once who told me that in life it is always important to be driven by the pull and not the push. And I feel like for you, this decision feels like it is rooted in being pulled towards something, even if that something is who you want to be next or what is next for you. So I know that when you made this decision, obviously it is because you feel as though you are content, that you are feeling somewhat satisfied, that you know you have accomplished all of this.

17:28But can you walk me through the process of coming to the decision, like on a practical level outside of what you felt how did you say this is what it looks like and this is what i'm going to do absolutely so you know we had 18 long months of negotiating the cba and during that time you know there was a lot going on um while still trying to train at the high level to be ready because we were never in a position where we felt that we didn't want a season or there wouldn't be one. We just knew what we wanted to stand on. And achieving that in the 11th hour, it was a lot. It was a lot. I would not be lying to you if I said that it was a lot.

18:14And having a micro free agency in that time, I genuinely was trying to figure out, okay, where do I want to go? I don't think that I had actually opened my mind up to that because we were so driven to get this deal done. And once I was able to do that, I at first was like, okay, I'm going to take all of my free agency calls from home. And that was not exciting to hear from those who were pursuing me. So I was like, okay, let me just lean into this. and going into free agency I was like okay you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna sign like a minimum two max three and this is absolutely gonna be my last contract and going in we had Balloon Gate which was a whole other situation which I actually thought was so amazing for the game because people were thirsting for W News I also love like your very last tweet is like this balloon gate and it's like the gift go ahead yes which I loved I loved and had great visits and you know at at the very end I was like you know what okay if I am if if I'm saying this is going to be the last few years that I'll be playing let me just let me be at home let me let me bet on being at home and um you know go where it all started it was a very tough decision um but that's that's kind of where I landed and then before signing the contract, there were a lot of things that kind of happened and I ended up only signing a one year.

19:47And I was like, okay, you know what? It's fine. You know, I made my decision. Let's just rock with it. And then in training camp, I was just like,

19:58I, I'm good for this year, but I actually think I'm okay. But not doing this again. When, when did you know? Do you like know the moment? Yes. So we had training camp in San Diego this year and it was already kind of a whirlwind getting there. Granted, I was very grateful because I already have my place here. So there wasn't too much that I had to do to move and get settled. But that week was very hectic because I also, I like to kind of assume responsibility of attending the draft, you know, welcoming in the new union members and also the new players to the league. Getting a good press. You know, just trying to do my best.

20:39And so it was CBA. It was free agency. It was Final Four. Then it was a draft. And then it was training camp immediately. And training camp usually you use the time to catch your bearings. But we were in San Diego. So when we were in San Diego, I was just like, okay, I'm just trying to catch my breath a little bit. We're practicing. You know, vibes are good. I'm seeing all my new teammates, even players that I've played with before. And I'm just walking along the beach in San Diego. And I'm just like, man, I just, I feel like so much has happened. I feel really good about where we're at in this league.

21:15I also feel good about being able to play in what would be now my third CBA. Yeah. And I just felt like, you know what? I feel like I've done it. Yeah, you're like, check, check, check. I feel like I've done it. And we have this new, these new wave of players coming in that are bringing in so much attention. and you know the game is is is evolving in so many different ways and I just feel like I have poured as much as I could into this game and the last bit is this year of playing and at that point I went back home and I went back to the hotel yeah yeah and I called Sinead and I was like this is it you know I called Sinead I called Tracy and Sinead was excited she was like oh let's plan let's let's plan this transition where are we going you know uh but of course you know my my tribe wanted to make sure that i was very sure about it and i think that they were a little stunned because every time they asked like okay what's your percentage and i was like uh 98 and they're like whoa it's high it's high and over the last over the over the last few days of training camp they kept asking me you know are you sure are you sure and i was like you know i i feel good about this?

22:32I have to tell you though this is all of this is so empowering to me because I think one of the reasons it's shocking people to hear about a retirement is because we are so used to retiring meaning it's not your choice. Right. That you have to retire. Right. But you are doing this because you feel like to some degree this mission that you had is complete. That you feel like you accomplished what you could accomplish and that just is not what comes to people's mind when it comes to stopping something. And a large part of that is because identity is very wrapped in what we do. Yes. But it feels like at some point you were able to relinquish or on some level separate neck of the basketball player from neck of the person and understanding that there would be more than just being in the WNBA.

23:22Yes. Is that accurate to say? Yes. I mean, I think you really depicted that perfectly. This is something that I've always thought about myself is that I don't want to feel like I'm being pushed out the door. And I do feel like in my time in the league and seeing that happen to players and players not being able to receive their flowers in an honorable way. I wouldn't say that it was something that I was trying to avoid, but I was learning from that experience. Yeah. But I also wanted to ensure that while I was still able to, you know, utilize my privilege and my platform, that I could help perhaps alleviate that transition that people didn't rightfully get.

24:12Totally. And I love how you put that because we shouldn't see it as, they say athletes die twice, which is, okay, yeah, sure, we do. But we should not see it as an end to something. And I think that my journey through these 15 years has allowed me to understand that I am more than my stats. you know and and still also holding on to the fact that what I was able to accomplish on the court opened the multiple identities that I do occupy for me to be able to make this decision with a full heart yeah and to your point it's like leaving as a whole person because I have seen I know you have seen people leave in kind of pieces yeah and it is it is unfair and sad sometimes to see people more so leaving in these pieces.

25:03I do have to ask, though, because as we've talked about this retirement, the CBA has come up a few times. You said, of course, it still feels visceral. You said that the CBA was just a lot. I'm curious what role, if any, this played in the weight of who you had to be and if it made that weight a little heavy. Yeah, it did. It did. I think what I'm most grateful for is the timing of it all. I think that the timing of negotiating this recently transformational CBA. Heavy on transformational. Yes. I think that the timing was actually perfect. Okay. I have reflected on this, and I wouldn't want to know how this would have affected me if I was like eight years in, because of how heavy it was.

26:00Totally worth it. I will never take away my experience in that. I learned a lot. I was challenged a lot. I had to step outside of who I naturally am at times to ensure that the goal was the goal for the group. But I think that the hardest part about that whole process, the burden that was the heaviest was having to fight for people who would probably not fight for you at times but it that was certainly overshadowed by the depth of support and also leadership from others that you wouldn't normally see publicly or in other situations so it really shed light on how we all have our individual leadership aspects that can allow the needs of the majority, like I always love to say, overshadow the noise of the minority.

27:05And I think that it was an incredible demonstration, both internally and externally for women, for those in sports, and also really for society as a whole to witness. Yeah. I mean, what you did was historic. It is something that every single league should look at to understand what leadership is, what negotiation is, what business is, which standing on something is, fighting for something is. Can you describe what that experience, though, felt like of having to fight for people that you are unsure if they would fight for you? I'm someone who likes to believe that I'm instinctual, you know, And I'm okay listening to my intuition, but I can be very pragmatic as well.

27:50And I just didn't like at moments where I was second-guessing myself because perhaps things weren't as clear as they appeared when we had and continued to constantly establish what our goals were as a group. But I had moments that were difficult to not succumb to perhaps the negativity that I was hearing, falsified information, others trying to influence my opinion or influence my perspective for an individual goal. but I accepted that you know I accepted that type of challenge because it made it I was better for it but I wouldn't say that it hardened me I didn't want anything to harden me but it did allow me to see things a little bit differently to know who to lean into to also understand when to listen instead to speak and and to just know myself a little bit more you know and to understand exactly what it is that I guess my back can get pushed up against the wall and I'm confident that I won't crumble.

29:10Yeah. I read you once say when you were talking about these negotiations, do I want to keep doing this? That there were moments where you said, do I want to keep doing this? Can you tell me what one of those moments was?

29:24I think it was a kind of a repetitive moment where generally I have to be tapped in. As president, you have to be tapped in with the staff and with your EC on a daily. And there would be information calls, emergency phone calls, accessibility that would erode the boundaries that I would put on myself to even just train. and so and so there would be a phone call based off of you know x y or z that um i would have to be on that would run you know into at that in my time zone it was you know up until like 11 you know midnight uh knowing that i still had to wake up at 4 a.m to train because i was the only window that i had um those were the days where i was like oh my gosh like yeah can i keep doing it Can I keep doing this?

30:20And it was either like, can I keep training? Can I keep, you know, trying my best to, you know, represent the greater interests of the group? But I'm not someone who likes to think about quitting. I don't I don't want to believe that I will ever walk away from something just because it's difficult. Yeah. And those are the times when I allowed myself, which I learned from when we had negotiated the last CBA in the bubble season. I did not do. I did not establish boundaries. I did not lean on my people. And so I was depleted. And ultimately, this time around, I was like, okay, when I feel like I'm overwhelmed, I'm going to talk to Chanae.

31:00I'm going to talk to Tracy. I'm going to call my people. Yeah, and that really helped me get out of those times where I was like, I just wanted to throw my hands up. Yeah. I'm so interested in just like who you are as a person because it does stay the same in these places, which is admirable. I think it is hard for people to maintain consistency of self. And I told you, I love that you have recently been posting about how you are an introvert. And I think that somebody might hear the word introvert and wonder, well, how can you be an introvert, but also be so demanding and a leader and have this, you know, kind of command over rooms, over a league and all these things.