Spike Lee on the Knicks, Highest 2 Lowest, Denzel, A$AP Rocky, & His Legendary Film Career

25:51You'll want you to play Mars, be black and white like she's gonna have it.

26:01And... History was made. But there was, like, she said, there's a catch. I said, what's the catch? Michael Jordan does not know who you are and he has not seen she's going to have it.

26:17And also Michael just signed a big contract. What's the guy's name? David Falk. Yeah, David Falk. Biggest contract at that time. Yep. So we did the commercials and Nike went to Stratosphere. Mars, to me, was the original B-Boy. He had the gazelles, the nameplate, and the Jordans. And Mars loves his Jordans so much that when he's in bed with Nola, he kept his Jordans on. And then when he got too excited, And the shot is going like that.

27:08So I know I told this story before, Mike, so don't get mad. So it wasn't until All-Star. Were you an All-Star weekend in Toronto? Yeah. Was it cold? The coldest ever. Brick. Cold AF, right? Coldest. So it wasn't. And I never, at that time, before, Mike didn't know who I was. And not seeing it because she's going to have it. And he could have. I never directed commercial before. So he's got any time big time Madison, I would direct him. So I always had this thought in my mind, why did he choose me? So it wasn't until All-Star Weekend in Toronto. So I said, I want to, because I was, you know, I wanted to tell them, ask them, because I never got enough courage.

28:00So it must have been the sub-zero. Had your mind going crazy. It was crazy. People died, you know. Throws to death. Several. For real? Yeah. Wow. That All-Star weekend, I mean. So I said, Mike, it was me and Mike in the room alone. I said, Mike, you had not seen She's Gonna Have It. You didn't know who I was. I know people were telling you that Spike's never directed a commercial. And you could easily, any big time, mass avid director, commercial or film. He looked at me and he said, motherfucker you were wearing my shoes oh my god and some people might have heard the story so that's all right but i've had the honor and privilege of being called a motherfucker by not doing it several times that's interesting especially of course i had at the garden He'd be like, motherfucker, sit your skinny black ass down.

29:10I'd be like, OK, Mike.

29:16And then forget about, he doesn't say nothing. A look will do it. That double nickel at the garden, he was looking at me. I was like this. I didn't want to see him looking at me. He come over there. He's coming to him. I'm sitting. Well, of course I'm like, nah, don't come over here, bro. They don't want that, bro. Don't come over here. But here's the thing, though. It was, it still is. Michael Jordan was born in this neighborhood. Fort Greene Hospital. Bernard Albert King was born here. Down the block. Mike Tyson. They're all born in Fort Greene. That's wild. That's another thing Mike says. Spike, stop talking about goddamn Brooklyn shit.

30:05He don't want to claim Brooklyn? He doesn't want to claim Brooklyn? Look, I wasn't even born in Brooklyn. I was born in Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah, you probably, for what, a month you lived there? A year or two, a year or two. All right, you're as Brooklyn as it gets. Your understanding of talent, like, cross-sector, right? Like, what you see in Mike or Prince or Denzel. Michael. Jackson. Why, you got Michael Jackson stories? Yeah. So I've actually never heard a Michael Jackson story. Let me hear this. This is before we had my wife when they said, we got to leave Brooklyn. We had a brownstone in this neighborhood.

30:46And brownstone, you know, you just walk up the steps and ring the bell. And everybody in Brooklyn knew where we lived. And a lot of times, like, I'm working out of town, and the motherfuckers are ringing the bell four in the morning. Who is it? Who is it? Who is it? Yeah, my name is Raekwon and my second cousin who was in third grade was Spike. It's for the fucking one. My time is, he said, Spike, we got to go. She said, because our door was just warm. You have to make a choice.

31:22Because, Satchel, Satchel and I are moving. I said, where? We're leaving Brooklyn. And there's a famous Jack Benny thing where it was radio. It says, your money, your life. Your money, your life. And it's like 30 seconds. And it's like, your money, your life. He says, well, I'm thinking. So even though I knew I was playing with T-Normal Jack Benny, so I was thinking about it. So anyway, out of nowhere, Michael Jackson was. I picked up the phone. I said, hello? Hello? Who is this? This is Michael. I hung up the phone. Michael calls again. Who is this? It's Michael Jackson. It's Michael. I hung up the phone.

32:20The third time. See, this is real Mike.

32:27Spike, this is Michael Jackson. Don't, see, he used to do that. He had a deep voice and he would use it when motherfuckers get out of line. I remember we would shoot one of the music, the music, the short films. And I'm like, Spike, Spike, Spike. He was trying to get my attention. Spike! Mike! I turned from, I turned from, where the fuck did that come from? Holy shit, Mike. Where'd it come? Hey, we'll get your attention. When Mike was mad, he had a deep voice? He didn't know that, she's out the window. So he called me up, he said, now he went back to his voice. Yep. He went, he switched the mode, the voice mode, whatever it is.

33:20I'm not going to imitate Mike. He just said, Spike, I need you to come to LA because I got this new CD coming out, album, called History, where the first CD is going to be my greatest hits and the second CD is going to be my new songs. I was excited. He's calling me out of nowhere. I said, Mike, I can't. My daughter, she's like four months old. I can't get there. He said, I'll come to New York. He says, where in New York? He says, I said, Brooklyn. He said, where in Brooklyn? He said, Fort Greene. He said, bet. Two or three days later, he's walking up the Brownstone corner of where he lived the corner of Willoughby.

34:13And he comes in. He says, Spike, can I see your door? So I said, Tanya! She's coming down the steps. He says, my hotel? He said, what kind of hotel? He said, oh, she's beautiful, Spike. She's beautiful. And then he kissed the satchel on the forehead. Tanya, they went back upstairs. He says, so sit in my living room. Hands me the CD. He says, Spike, you have to pick one song, because I have in mind other directors for the song. So you pick any song you want. So I love every single song. I said, Mike, it was really hard for you to make a choice. He said, Spike, you have to choose one. So I said, let me listen to all the songs again.

35:00So I listened to all the songs. He said, and Mike's looking at his watch. He said, I'm on my plane waiting to go back to LA, in Teterboro, anyway. Spike. Now it's not, no. He's like, Spike. He put the page in the voice. He's just going to switch it back and forth.

35:21I said, OK, I'm going to pick a song.

35:26He, I said, not he, I said, Mike, you've got me to tell a spot. I mean, he's like, Spike, you have to pick one song. He's going back and forth. What the fuck knows he is? I was like, he's like looking at his watch. He's like, you know, Mikey got facial expressions too.

35:53So I said, all right, if you put a gun in my head, I would like to do also, he didn't call them music videos, he called them short films. I would like to do the short film for Strange in Paris. Strange in Paris! You want to do, they don't care about us.

36:16Well, you should have told me. See, here's the thing about him. And here's the slick thing, because I know I'm not the first person who's done that. So the trick is to get somebody to do what you want to do, to make it seem like that's their choice. Yep. That's managing talent. What? That's how managing talent is. That's the gangster shit. That shit's gangster. Let me ask you. So. Yes. At that time, Paul Simon came out an album called Rhythm of the Saints. And on that album, there's this Brazilian drum group called All the Doom. I said, Mike, let's go to Brazil and let's have All the Doom. They're like a hundred piece drum troupe.

37:10Let's go to Brazil and have old Doom play, honey, with you. We're on a plane the next week. That's crazy. That's my microphone. You've lived a billion lives, Spike. And it feels like your exposure to all of this talent has allowed you maybe this gift to be able to pluck people from outside the world of film to be in your movies, right? Like you did it with Ray Allen. And in this new film you did it with? Ray Allen. Before Ray Allen, he got game. Let's go to do the right thing. Ron Charles. Ron Charles. Martin Lawrence's first film. I mean, they were like, please forgive me if I got, I'm not going to let somebody out, but I mean.

38:04So do you know you can see it? Not right now. Sometimes. But I got to, I mean, they're going to get auditions. I'm not going to say, you're in a film right away. I mean, they got to. Of course, but you obviously can spot something. Yeah. Right? What did you spot in A$AP Rocky?

38:28Well, ASAP, he was in a film that my wife Tanya produced. And then before they had a cameo on this film called Dope. The film's called Monster. I always get Monster. And him and John David played, David Washington played obviously. Denzel's son. Yeah, Denzel's son. In fact, Denzel's first, John David Washington's first film, he was in Malcolm X at the very end. He's one of those kids. My name is Malcolm X. I was kidding about that.

39:11So, Denzel is a beast. I mean

39:19when you see a championship fight you want to see whoever the heavyweight champion was you want to see somebody who's going to test them so in a movie if you had two characters they're like go head to head you got to cast somebody who's going to stand who's going to hold his ground with Denzel and

39:48A-Sep's from Harlem. You know, so. He held his ground. What? He held his ground. Oh. This film, Eyes for Lois, they go toe-to-toe. And that's what makes it exciting. Because if it does just... Where's the the climax where's the energy you gotta be like this and Denzel was so intimidating you know I've seen it has Denzel changed as an actor from 18 years ago

40:31that's a great question

40:37look everybody If you're great, you're not gonna, you're gonna be great, but there's different levels of greatness. And anytime Denzel's in front of the camera, he's gonna put the work in. So I've said this many times. It's a blessing that Denzel and I are together. The dynamic duo! D and Lee! D and Lee. for our fifth film. And Denzel's been public about it. He's seen the end of him being in front of the camera. Do you feel like this could have been his last film? No, he's getting ready to do a camera. This is not nothing new. It's been said. He's going to do a cameo in the next Black Panther.

41:32And then who knows? One thing that has changed in 18 years is the film business. And I know you did your last... Oh, also Hannibal. He's going to do that too. Oh, that's going to be dope. You did your last film with Netflix. You just did this film with A24 and Apple. A24 is like the premier brand right now in Hollywood. This is your first experience working with them? Great. What makes them such an incredible organization? They're here in New York. I think that's a lot to do with it. Proximity? That's... They're here? No, no, I'm just here. Just the vibe and the culture. It's different in LA. Yeah, without question.

42:11It's different. You go to LA, you get in the car, drive to the studio, you have no interaction with people. Not New York, but you're good. It's a different vibe. I'm not hating on LA, but there's an energy. Man, you could be away for a long time. You get off that plane, you get off a LaGuardia or a JMK, you're like... Adrenaline.

42:46Adrenaline, energy, whoo! Hits you in the face. So you think that's at the core of what makes A24... They got smart people, too. I'm just saying, New York is... I'm with you, man. I'm a born and raised New Yorker, too, as you know. The state of Hollywood, a very talked about subject, and the theater going experience, obviously I assume this will be in theaters first. You're gonna go to Cannes and premiere it. It'll be in theaters and then it'll go to Apple. Does it impact you, the state of Hollywood now, or are you in some ways can call the shots for what you wanna do? No, I mean, I have final cut, but just the industry, I'm part of the industry, so what's happening affects you know I think everybody and it's a scary time we live now and now what's his name saying to put tariffs on films that aren't shot in the United States of America and all industries are like this tariff thing it's like I've never thought about the tariffs and stuff you're trying this but the films that aren't shot in the United States would tariff on me like here's the thing though a lot of these uh individuals who run these companies they were they were at the inauguration come on now I ain't name with no names They were in inauguration.

44:22So when you approach a project like this now. I mean, this one was brought to me. I understand, but when you agree to do a film like this, you're putting the film out on Apple, how important for you will the theater experience always be? Would you have even wanted to do this film if they told you this was going right to Apple? No. No chance, right? They're not going to do that to themselves. And they're not going to do it to Spike Lee. Denzel, me. Nah, see that's what's incredible about you. I'm telling you, that's the way the studio is. I mean, I don't have the box office first day opening, you know.

45:03He's a major star. Alright, but regardless, the theater experience will always be paramount for you. Oh yes, and you know I love my brother.

45:17Mr. Kukla, he's really talking about one of the reasons why he wanted to do Sinner, because he wanted that being in the theater, dark space that he got growing up when his father took him to movies. And I know sometimes that there are films you want to see, but it's not like, I'll wait to Netflix, I'll wait to Apple, whatever. but when you're in a theater man I remember waiting online and freezing weather this is the Exorcist I remember waiting online to see Jaws and the song I'm gonna want to see Alien and Godfather and I mean where the theater is packed but like that feeling when a film was hitting on levels I don't care how big your TV is in your living room it'll never and you're with a community of people too yes here's the thing though except for the people who came with it's a community yeah black white what I mean it's just like you're all vibing what we're saying.

46:38So what do you tell young, you teach at NYU? You got your phone on you? No. Can I have a phone? Where's my phone? Trying to make a call? What? Trying to make a call? It's called a demonstration, sir. You got that. It's in your pocket.

46:58Uh-uh. Give me your phone. Somebody. Anybody's phone. Thank you.

47:09Can you imagine people looking at the Godfather I mean, like this? And then, it's not even like this. They're looking like this.

47:25Now, if you're on the subway, a plane, but... No, that... This is backwards. So let me ask you a question then, right? I read something. Am I loud? Am I too loud? No, no. Keep it going. Keep this energy. I read something you talked about. You went to film school just to get access to equipment. Now you teach at film school, right? So knowing that this is the climate we're in and AI is now clearly becoming a new... That's another thing. Yeah, so what do you tell a young filmmaker? Like, what do you tell a young filmmaker now? You know what, I'm glad you brought it up so I can say this. I'm a tenured professor of film at NYU, grad school.

48:08I went, I've been teaching there 30 years. And Ernest Dickens shot all my films and Ang Lee, we were all in the same class. And Jim Jarmusch was two years ahead of us. But not to sound like an old fuddy-duddy, let me see the phone again.

48:31The reason why I went to film school, because you can get access to the equipment. So the thing I can't hate on, this with the phone, you become a filmmaker. You can make your films.

48:51I had the money to rent a camera, 16mm. I had money for the film you got to put in the lab. this has brought access to young filmmakers. So I can't hate on that. I can't hate on that. So when you sit and you talk to these young filmmakers that have concerns about

49:16how maybe corrupt the industry's become, how streamlined the industry's become, how the theater experience has been diminished for some. We don't talk about that. You don't talk about it. I talk about helping them tell their stories so here's the way it works I always teach on Thursdays from 8am to 1pm there's half an hour slots where I spend 30 minutes with my students and I'm looking at their films and their scripts and I help them one to two at lunch then two before we watch a film and then we discuss that film for an hour. That's what I've been doing for 30 years. And it's that really that half an hour they have with me.

50:12We were just I'm trying not trying that's nothing. When somebody says the word try or trying in my class my TA puts before them a copy of the famous Yoda quote. See what we say? You're not allowed to say that T word in my class. Because words are powerful. And if you keep saying this word, you're not going to be doing it. You're not doing what you're supposed to be doing. That word, you're not going to say it. Can't say it? words are powerful and you can program I believe your mind like and you gotta have that for me that process I'm doing I'm not coming here for three years and the tuition is crazy you coming here I'm making my films You got to have that mentality.

51:27And you can put that to sports. You know, oh, I'm in spring training, camp. But the Turk is not handing me the playbook. You know, the Turk is right. Explain what the Turk is. I don't know. In football, when they make cuts, the Turk is like execution. He knocks on the door. Coach wants to see you. Give me the playbook. That's the Turk? That's the Turk. I know it's a different name for basketball or baseball or football. The Turk. The Turk. So when your students now want to tell stories, original stories, and Hollywood is all remakes and IP being turned into films. How hard is it now to get an original screenplay made?

52:25They get them, but the question is, do they want to make them? Who's attached? But in order to get in a position where they can look at your original ideal, they want to see a film first.

52:47So I encouraged them to work on their, I got help no matter what, but the personal stories I think are the ones that a filmmaker at that state is, that's something they could do without trying to do some crazy stuff. Sinners was incredible. Yes. Ryan. Ryan. What makes him so, he's so incredibly talented. I was blown away. And by the way, to your point, I saw Sinners on the IMAX screen. Yeah. Let me tell the story. So I was in LA, the phone rings. Ryan, I said, what's up? He said, Spike, you in LA? Yeah, I'm here. He said, yo, we're testing the final IMAX thing of Sinners. He said, can you get here in an hour?

53:43I said, bet! So we're at the place where the final testing of Sinner's IMAX theater. And he laughed. In fact, I posted it. My reaction to the film on Instagram. I said, I haven't seen a film like this in years. I also said, this experience was like, me, I swear to God, somebody can go on my IMAX, excuse me, go on my Instagram, you know, sometimes I have, I have dyslipia. Not dyslexia, dyslipia. Shippy slippery. So, if I even fuck that word, you know I got, it's the dyslipia. Dyslipia. Spikeisms. So, go to my Instagram, and you can read it. I said, I was just like I'm writing. I said, I was jumping up and down.

54:42Because I'm, Ryan's here, his beautiful wife is here, and I'm here, I'm sitting next to Ryan. And I wrote, I'm jumping up and down like I'm course at the garden and we're kicking the Celtics' ass. Look it up, you'll see the date. That's the joy and pride you felt in there? I mean, it was, I was jumping, I said, I mean, What did I say? I was jumping up and down like I'm course at the garden and we're kicking the Celtics ass. Well, that's probably the greatest feeling you could feel. It's up there. It's up there. And MBJ's performance, I mean, I believed both brothers. The twins. I lost sight of the fact that he was both characters.

55:32Is he in that type of kind of conversation that Denzel's been in? I'm not comparing him. Yeah, I mean, if people make comparisons, I mean, they've done that, you know. Yeah, of course. But here's the thing, though. He's one of these. He's one of these special generation ones. You know you have, here's the thing, this is not the first time in history of cinema.

55:54Scorsese, De Niro. you know you have directors who work with the actors they go yeah again and again again spike lee and denzel ryan kugler and michael b jordan yeah and here's the thing that i put this on uh my instagram again because people like trying to start some shit the love that denzel and i have for Ryan and Michael is number 11. And it's mutual. Yeah. We ain't never seen no shit like we're beefing. That ain't never going to happen. Well, that's just people that... Yeah, they're idiots. But I'm just saying, because I want to squash that shit before it starts. Because the film, you know, already saying, like, I mean, it's a good thing.

56:48This is the year of black cinema. citizen highest lows but here's it's love it's admiration where you want people to be the best they can be there ain't no fucking competition there's room enough for everybody to thrive for you to thrive doesn't mean you're you're hating on somebody else yeah that shit gotta go And here's an important thing. Because I saw I saw Tyler Perry at the gala. And even though that shit had been squashed, I went up to Tyler and said, I'm apologizing again for the stuff he went through. And Tyler said, oh, Spike, man. I said, nah, you're here. It's Hulk. You know? So we're at a time now.

57:49That we gotta be like this. Yeah We gotta be tight. Those are probably the same people That are making a big deal about the deal that Ryan Coogler got for himself when this is the thing This is not the first time in the history of herstory Where an actor who has the power? Has said my contract at the specific time the motherfucking film reversed back to me. It's not the first time. There's fucking hatred on a brother doing this. Oh, now that's a crime? It wasn't a crime before?

58:34You're right. You're right. Did you, did you? Oh, that's the fucking okey-doke. The flim-flam. Chanel, oh, that's all I got here. The three S's.

58:47Skullduggery

58:52Subterfuge Here's one that's the last one to kill her Shenanigans

59:01The three motherfucking bullshit S's That shit's so obvious Where that critique's coming from Oh when people can't do something Now it's a crime but you been doing this shit ever from the get-go? Get the fuck out of here. Straight up. That's the Brooklyn accent right there. Italian-American. Get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. Let me ask you about someone else I know you're a fan of and the question in general as it relates to hip-hop today. I know you loved seeing Kendrick at the Super Bowl. You know, hip-hop has been so aligned and intertwined throughout your career and your projects and just who you are.

59:52How do you see the state of hip-hop, and how important is someone like Kendrick? Kendrick, I think, revitalized hip-hop. And that halftime show, people have been talking about that for decades. the rest of the rest ever that we have. And I think of white lines, something like phenomenon, something like phenomenon. It's, I mean, people still ask, I mean, what's May? Yeah, May. People People still saying, did you see the Super Bowl show? Yeah. That was, what was that beginning of February, right? Yeah. Black History Month. That was like, I don't know if I see something like that again where it's like,

1:00:58a cultural moment, it's like a tornado. It's like, just coming through. You have a relationship with him? I've never met him before. I'd like to, I've never met him. I could see you wanting. He's coming to, you know him, right? I don't know. You don't know him? No. You know everybody! I don't know him. Oh, that's the one person you don't know. I would love to know him. Yeah, when are they coming to MetLife? Anybody know? Oh, yeah, this weekend. When? Friday. Friday? No, Thursday, Friday, this week. May 8th, May 9th. The day after tomorrow, tomorrow? Yeah, tomorrow, tomorrow. At Medlife? Yeah. I'm going on Friday.

1:01:39You going? Yeah. Scissor and Kenyon. You got hookups? No, you have hookups. I don't know. Who am I going to call? Stop. I don't got his number. Stop. I'll give you a ticket in two seconds. Just throwing tickets out there. Can I get one? They're in what? Is that you, Jackson? He's offering tickets. Can I get one? What? You guys can get one. You know, Jackson, go get tickets. He'll do it. He knows to talk to you. He's connected to that. Nah, he's on it. He's on it. He's on it. He's on it. Before we wrap up, tell me. Yeah, look, I got it. I'm not in a rush. Go ahead. I'm not in a rush too, but I want to tell me about the film.

1:02:19Tell me about the film from like the excited director, Spike Lee, of this film. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Yeah, I like this. well we don't want nobody it's an R rated movie so it is I know I've used this word a million times in this interview but I cannot I cannot just make belittle the word blessing whether you want to make it you know a religious connotation whatever you want to do but when you are giving gifts it's not like these things happen everyday And for Denzel to think of me, to work with one of his last films, he said it's a record, and us work together on one of the great films ever made by one of the great filmmakers ever made, Akira Kosawa, a Japanese filmmaker, who I got to meet.

1:03:26this is a here's the thing

1:03:34I believe in the spirit I'm going to give you an example May 19th 1989 another summer funky drummer May 19th 1989 was the world premiere Duel Ranking May 19th, 2025 will be the world premiere of High as the World. May 19th, 2025 will be Malcolm X's 100th birthday. May 19th is a Monday. And that's the only day. Broadway is dark. May 19th is a Monday and Denzel will be in Cannes. And this will be the first time that Denzel's been in Cannes with the film. Denzel in 1992 bought the... bought Malcolm X to us. and I believe my heart can rush my brother this is not an accident this is not like some lucky shit nah this shit lined up I can't wait to see this movie you know it's you want to whatever you want to call it kismic karma pick your choice it that's not an accident May 19th what happens if so out of nowhere May 19th 2025 is on a Monday the only day that Broadway is dark the only day you won't see Denzel on stage Othello with matinees on Wednesday and Sunday

1:05:46That was not just some happenstance shit. Hell no. Oh, hell to the nigh. N-A-W. Hell to the nigh. You know your place in history?

1:06:04It's not something I've thought about this. So thank no one's ever asked me that question. Give it to me. I've never ever thought about that I'm going to be in two years I'm going to be 70 not like I'm packing it up but my goal I got to keep building my body of work and keep teaching I've been teaching 30 years all 30 years weren't tenured. They can't fire me at NYU. They can't fire me. Grad film. Can't fire me. So I'm going to keep making films and keep teaching and really share my knowledge and yes wisdom but also with the mishaps and the falls and instill with my students that you got to make your motherfucking films.

1:07:14Do or die. Not do or die, but you got to go. And it really troubles me sometimes when students are like, well, Professor Lee, well, I don't want to. No, I say, stop! I don't want to hear that. Don't come here with that stuff. You gotta do it. Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. So let me ask you again. Yeah. Do you know your place in history? Do you understand what you've meant to so many people? What your films have meant? The walls you've kicked down? You know what? I got an answer for you. Not in Boston.

1:07:59I'll take it. Not in, not in B-town. You are a one of one, my friend. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate you. I hope you've had some laughs. Man, this is, I have learned. When is it gonna run? It's gonna run very soon. Yeah. I appreciate you. No, thank you. Good luck in Cannes. Yeah. I can't wait to see this movie and whether you know it or not, your place in history is cemented for generations to come. Thank you. Spike Lee, May Cover Story, Boardroom. This was an honor and a blessing. Thank you. Come on!