Taylor Rooks' Dreams Came True & She's Striving For More | Boardroom Talks

26:23The men are playing this sport to be a champion because they want to be one of the best, because they've worked their entire life for it. But sometimes when you talk about women playing sports, even the elite of the elite, it's about how they are inspiring others, which is incredibly important. You should be inspired when you are watching other people. And I know that they want to inspire. But being an inspiration is still a service to someone else. We talk about how women inspire. we talk about how you know the skills that they are getting as being athletes and how it can carry them into other things very rarely it's just like you are going to be the best in this thing and that is why you are playing it's like aspirational to a fault in a way but it isn't that way for men i guess i need to like think about it a little more but i've i've really been recognizing this with how we speak about women athletes do you get what i'm saying do you agree what you're saying i I do agree completely.

27:20Yeah. And I think your point about college basketball is an interesting one. This next year, like you said, will be very telling. I think there's some things. Obviously, Caitlin Angel, this whole narrative like we talked about has just been iconic and has been important and has carried the momentum into this what will be an exciting year in the WNBA. And I think when you look at college with Juju and Paige and Dawn and her dominance in South Carolina, I think you'll still get a ripple effect of attention on college. I don't think you'll lose it right away. And Juju could end up being the best of them all.

27:54But do you think that the idea that women's college basketball is during the basketball season is a benefit to it? And in some ways, the WNBA playing during the summer has been a hindrance at all. That's a good point. I've never really thought about it in that way. You know, people in a basketball state of mind during the winter, during March Madness for both men and women, during the playoff chase for men, it's all like top of mind to you. And I don't think it's going to be something that keeps the WNBA from ultimately growing, but it's something that I've always thought, and it's too late now, but years ago, I always imagined the WNBA being on like the off day.

28:36You know, like we're all in a basketball mindset. I just went to see the Knicks play. I want to go see the Liberty play. And it's probably tough logistically, and I'm not trying to uproot the system. Yeah. But I do think that there's something to how fans have kind of seen that time of year. And women's college basketball had a platform waiting for it in some ways. Yeah. I think that playing into routine is always helpful, right? When you are expecting something to be away and you're adding more, you are more likely to get more of what you're expecting. But you would think that for people who really love basketball, the idea of having it year-round would be enticing.

29:15That during the summer you can watch the WNBA, and then when that's over you can go back to the NBA. And you would think that's almost like a fantasy land for a basketball fan. So it's actually, I think, more interesting that it hasn't been that way, that the summer hasn't been like the paradise for people because you can get more. that it is even a question of why this is or isn't working. It's like if it's the only thing on, and if you like basketball, you can get that basketball fix, you can turn on the WNBA. Well, I think that's going to change this summer, and that's why I was so happy that Dawn Staley said what she said after the game.

29:53Because when you're as popular as Caitlin is, you're going to have opinions on both sides. There's going to be hate. It's going to happen. But you can't forget the role that she's played in helping this entire momentum swing. And I thought that was important because of just where Dawn sits and kind of the hierarchy. Back to you. Okay. Me, I'm like, yeah, let's talk about other things. Back to you, Taylor Rooks. You have in a short time, not only become very successful, but you've become a public figure in your own right. And it, like you said, has to do with you. I don't think from knowing you now for seven years that you've tried to do that, but your work and who you are has done that for you.

30:37Has it been something that you weren't anticipating or that you weren't maybe prepared for? And then the second part of that is how has that in some ways been a challenge for you interviewing public figures as you've become a bit of one yourself? It's a really good question.

30:56I don't know if I anticipated it to the extent that it has gotten to at this point. I do believe that I have been very prepared for it. I don't think that I really had a choice. When I was in school at University of Illinois, I was breaking recruiting stories. I was a very premier news source when it came to Illinois basketball and football. I would be on campus and someone in my class would want to take a pick. I'm like, okay. And then when I went to Big Ten Network, I was carrying over some of those same Big Ten fans that were now watching the network. And keep in mind, I got that Big Ten Network job when I had just turned 22.

31:36So although I'm young, I have been doing this for quite some time. And when I started, it was very like, you're thrown into the fire and this is what your life is going to look like now. I think my life moved really quickly in some good ways and in some bad ways. But I have started to ask myself more now, probably more now than ever, how big do I want to be? I believe the answer to be very big because that is just what I have always wanted to do was really mean something in the media space. But I know now, too, there are so many other things that come with it. I think I am talked about differently than most women in the space.

32:20I think I'm seen differently than most women in the space. But I also think, you know, I encounter people and get opportunities that are different than most women in the space because of the aforementioned two. So it is somewhat of a double-edged sword. And I do think I am prepared for it. But I have certainly started to become more cognizant of what it actually means to not just be an interviewer, but be somebody that people are really interested in. And I don't really know when it got here, but it certainly is here. I'll say that. Well, as a friend, please let your star shine as bright as it can be.

32:57Yeah, for sure. Because as you said, you don't want to be boxed in. And I think you're breaking ground in a lot of ways. How do you feel like you're seen or talked about? Yeah, it's a good question. You know, I think that there is a large fascination on who I am as a person, whether that is just me privately in my personal life, but also a huge fascination with the network of people that I know. I think that sometimes people are trying to understand, you know, maybe why is she so liked or why do you want to hang out with her? And when you have all of these questions, what you do is try to create the story in your head that is the most entertaining.

33:43Or I would take it a step further to say the story in your head that best explains why it isn't you. And I think that that happens with me a lot. I think people want to create narratives in their head that just make them have fun for that day. But it's interesting. I am always, always, always, always going to be seen differently because I'm a woman, even though I am doing all of the things that men do. Someone that I love is Ahmad Rashad. I think that he was really able to, of course, have great relationships with people like Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing. But what he capitalized on most was the fact that he was seen as a peer.

34:23He was their peer. He was somebody that they wanted to be around. And there's men in the media space now that are able to capitalize on being seen as a peer, even if the only commonality that they have with athletes is that they're men. So what does that mean for women? Am I supposed to not be able to enter into those same sort of spaces and build those exact same kind of relationships just because I'm not a man? That doesn't make sense to me. I have been able to interview the way that I have, like I said, be in the rooms the way that I have, build real trust with athletes and have real relationships with athletes because I did not want the fact that I wasn't a man stopping me from doing that.

35:09I was only able to get as far as I got because I didn't view being even a woman as a box that I was in. All of these are just things like you're battling what you want to do versus what people expect of you. And the thing that people expect of me is much less than what I expected myself. It's still a limit. And what I want to do means doing a lot of the same things that men have been able to do. And that is always what my guiding kind of light is. Do you feel like some of your friends, some of these players that you've become close with and have been interviewing for years now, has it been awkward at times or has it changed your relationships seeing how big of a star you become?

35:53I mean, I know the first time I I remember one of the first times you interviewed Kevin. And just to think about, we were at a restaurant. You remember? Yeah, I do. And to think about, I knew who you were then, but how far you've come. And obviously, your relationship with us has never changed. But do you ever get that sense from some of the players in the league that may, in some ways, be intimidated by kind of who you become? Maybe, yes. But I view it as an advantage. Like, there are people that seek out wanting to come onto the show. Yeah. I think for some people, it feels like a moment that they were able to be on the show and be interviewed by me.

36:25And I take a lot of pride in that. Because not only does it make the content and the product like a destination, it continues to solidify me as one. That if I sit in her chair, people will see it, people will talk about it, she'll ask me good questions. But I'm also like, she's somebody that I have watched. And so that makes me really happy. And then when I think about the athlete relationships that I have, I actually think as I've gotten bigger or more noticeable, I relate much more to some of the things that the athletes go through on a much smaller scale. but I get it. And I think as I've gotten bigger, I've actually gotten a lot closer to a lot of the friendships that I have.

37:07I feel that way about Kevin. When I met Kevin, I literally just started. I was in college. He gave me a yes when most people always want to give you a no. And I have seen him grow. And we always talk about that through him growing, I have also grown. He has seen me just be a host. He has seen me interview. He has seen me interview people that nobody knew their name to now I'm able to really have, you know, the stars in the space. And so I think that even just through that, through the work, through the dedication, and always trying to be different has created stronger relationships too. Are you close enough with any of these guys to tell them not to start podcasts?

37:54honestly yes and i've had a few don't do a podcast conversations to be honest with you are there too many there are there are too many podcasts that have the potential to hurt you that's what i'd say i don't think that it's that there are too many i don't think there are enough good ones that's that's kind of my my stance that's Good answer. Yeah. There's not enough good ones. I'll say that. Well, you'll never say that publicly because one thing that I think everyone appreciates you for is you really are fearless and standing up for athletes. Yeah. And you do always speak out. Is that something that you just felt like was a responsibility in being friends with so many and entering into that world as a peer like Ahmad Rashad is you also are fearless and saying, nah, this is wrong.

38:42What you said was wrong. This what you said about this person is wrong. And I think people really do appreciate that and trust you because of that. Well, I think it's important. And I think we all have a responsibility to this job. And what that responsibility is, is to give your opinion and tell people what you feel, again, in an informed way. And the way media has been, I would say it is shifting some. The person who gets the short end of the stick is the subject. And if we are not approaching the subject with real empathy, real understanding, a perspective that is outside of our own, then we're actually doing a disservice to not just the athlete, but the viewer too.

39:24So when we enter into these spaces, if it is a media member saying something I don't agree with, you have to see, again, the whole picture. And I think that's sort of the role that I play. And it's also what I try to do in my interviewing, too. I don't want anybody to step into the chair and I am, like, leading the thing that they're saying. I just want you to show up as you and we're going to get to the heart of it. And that is what I want the work to be. And if sometimes that means standing up for an athlete, that's a byproduct of what I think the meat of my purpose is. Yeah. The NFL was something that when I saw you were starting, I was excited for you.

40:00I mean, it's part of your evolution. What was that as a challenge for you? What kind of change was that? What is the kind of climate of working in that same capacity around football players around the NFL as comparison to the NBA? For sure a new space. You know, interviewing is interviewing, but the logistics around it are certainly different. I think interviewing NBA players, they tend to be a bit more individualistic, not as people, but just in the system that they are a part of. It encourages that. They don't feel as we are talking about themselves. I think on the NFL side of things, it does tend to be a bit more team focused, but also a bit more sport focused.

40:43In these interviews, we are talking about things that have happened on the field and, you know, the narrative surrounding how they are on the field. So getting used to that, there was certainly a learning curve for sure. There's also less time. I don't know if people really understand that when we do the features for Thursday Night Football, you're with that athlete for 15 minutes, 15, maybe 20 if you're lucky. so you have to get to the heart of their story you have to make them feel comfortable make them want to answer honestly and not give you the same old locker room talk that we hear within 15 minutes whereas on my show i'm sitting with you for an hour and we're talking about whatever we want it's just a different feeling so there was there was a learning curve some for that but it has made me exponentially better because it's rapid.

41:33You get there and you better figure it out. This last season, we had a Raiders game and we were supposed to be interviewing Devontae Adams. So I found out I was interviewing Devontae Adams. I had prepped all of the day before, the night before. And we get there and Devontae gets sick. And we learn this like five minutes before the interview is supposed to start. But it's Thursday night football. We need to have a feature we got to figure it out uh we asked for max crosby max says shout out to max by the way he's the best he said yes he would he would do it so i had to prep for a thursday night football feature for max crosby in 15 minutes not that we spoke for just 15 minutes i had to prep for it in 15 and we did it and it was one of the best ones i think that we did but i was only able to do that because I had a season under my belt of what this looks like.

42:26I had the tape both on Max, but on myself. So it just moves differently. It's not the same even like routine as you get in the NBA. And when you're in these like pre-production meetings, is there even a desire to try to stir up anything? It does feel like now that you say it, that the NFL for the most part, outside of maybe Aaron Rodgers coverage or OBJ coverage every once in a while. It is about on the field. It is about the game. And in reality, that's the kind of information we consume the most. The NFL is still the biggest sport by far. I wonder if that's actually hurt the NBA in some ways.

43:04It has brought this incredible amount of attention, but I wonder if it has hurt the game in some ways. And I would imagine, yes, if LeBron and JJ, for instance, felt the need to do something to cut through a bit, the NFL must be refreshing in that way and I'm sure it comes with its issues as well um but that is something that like now that you pointed out is something that is very obvious to me for sure with mind of the game pod which is truly brilliant I I think JJ is just such a media star but that show it really is it's just about the game yeah it's the x's and o's of it and the fact that that didn't exist when you really think about it, is probably a failing on someone's part.

43:48Without question. Because before that, where did you go just to learn more? Where'd you go? Where do you go? Yeah. And so they fulfilled a need. And of course, it's cutting through because it didn't exist. But I think we should examine why it didn't exist. But the thing about that, though, is that actually means examining the consumer. because the reason that NBA media is how it is now, whether it's debatey or hot takey or feeding into drama, whatever, it's because that's what people watch. It's what we wanted. It's what we wanted. So it's a bit of a give and take and you don't really necessarily know who you're supposed to like blame in that.

44:29But in my opinion, most of the blame goes to the consumer. What you watch on TV or on your phone is a result of interest. These channels aren't just talking about this because they want to. They're putting it out there because you have shown that you are interested in it. So while people might complain about how we talk too much about, you know, things happening off the court or too much opinion, too personality driven, you have shown, the data shows us that you actually don't want that, right? It's the same when you think about these, like when you think about some rappers and musical artists.

45:04Whenever someone puts out a new album, people say, he's not rapping anymore. Like, I don't see him really rapping. Like, where are the lyrics? Where's the message? But on the album, that song exists. Y 'all didn't listen to it, but you listen to the hits, right? And so I am giving the people what it is they want. And I think the NBA is also kind of working in that space too. You know what we can blame it on? What? What we blame everything on. What? Social media. No, probably. That's become the thing for everybody. It has. But I think there's some truth to that. It is. Yeah, it is. Social media.

45:42It is. Do you think social media has done more harm or more good? Well, I think it's probably right down the middle. Yeah. And the harm side of it is just so much more dangerous and scary than the good. People have built businesses. People have connected with people around the world. like it's endless but it's scary it's scary I don't know if you saw this book that just came out the anxious generation it's like a New York Times bestseller and it's just about how physically and emotionally destroyed young people are by social media and how quickly it's all happened I mean this isn't decades and decades of evolution right two decades at most yeah I mean I agree with you because I owe a very, very, very large part of my career to social media, right?

46:32A very large part of it. So I am in no way just sitting here and bashing what social media has done. But social media, I think its worst thing is that it does not allow people to be critical thinkers. That to me, it's like the worst part of social media. I completely agree with you. And the lack of critical thinking is what's leading to everything else. People on social media believe that if you post a tweet and a photo, it's true. People, again, want to believe the thing that is the most entertaining, even if it is not based in any reality. And so the more and more we are feeding pure entertainment to others, but not actual thought, of course we're going to be like everything is going to reflect that.

47:20And there's a bunch of things that are wrong with it. But I think that's probably the worst. How it has influenced common thought because there's a lack of it online. Yeah. Well, you know where there is not a lack of common thought? What? I love this segue. Your new show with Joy. Yes, too personal. We love it. I'm so excited. I love doing it. I love doing it. And honestly, as we talk about sort of what men have been able to do in their careers, maybe women haven't always felt like. I was like watching Stephen A. And I was watching Shannon Sharp. And I'm like. That alone is intense. Yeah, for sure.

47:57But I'm like. So, you know, they can go online and have these conversations about sex and women's butts. And no one says anything. I would. But I'm like, you know what? You are doing everything you're capable of. No, you're right. And I believe in that. But then we should all get to do that. And I think for too personal, it's just we are more than just sports media members. We have lives. We have friends. We have things we love. We have things we hate. And we should be granted that same sort of space to be whole people that a lot of the men have been able to. And if I'm being really honest with myself, I wish I would have started doing something like this earlier.

48:39But again, I think when you're a woman, you have this thing in the back of your head, which is, have I done enough to be able to enter into that space? And I really had to sit down with myself and say, look at what you've built up to this point, and you are selling yourself short to think you can't show more of who you are. And I just reached a point where I wanted that resume to speak for me and say, she's done this. We know that she can. Her doing this is not going to take away from that. And I think I've landed here and I really enjoyed doing the show with joy. I think it's amazing. And I think, you know, I understand what you mean about Stephen A.

49:18and Shannon. And I do think that more power to everybody. Kick every door down. Talk about what you want, especially if the consumer continues to consume it. Yeah. But I think the example with you guys is different because when I watch the two of you do that show, if I closed my eyes, I wouldn't think this was two women from the sports world. Yeah. I'd like to hear that that's the goal and it's working because I also think that at the point the two of you are at it's like you're you're talking to the audience but you're also experiencing life in real time you're curious in your own right and you're very human in how the two of you communicate with each other um and that's different than your examples you know about Stephen and Shannon talking about music or politics or entertainment.

50:03I think this was a show that was needed, but I'm not a young woman. I don't know that. I enjoy it. But did you feel like young women needed this show? Did you get that feeling from your fans, from the audience, or just from what you know that this was something that was needed? Yeah. Because again, we think that just context and nuance is missing with everything. And the way that we talk about each other, I think it damages how we view men, how we view women. It damages how we view friendships, how we view the world. Because people think when you enter into conversations, you pick a side and that's your side.

50:42And there's nowhere in the middle where you can find any sort of common ground or even just discuss your experiences. People aren't honest. That's also something I've realized through doing this show and also the ways that I think I haven't always been fully honest. And with the show, I really am pushing myself to be me fully and talk about things I maybe wouldn't always feel comfortable with because the only way you have that growth, the only way you cut through and the only way women feel as though they relate is if you are honest, if you say what you are thinking out loud, but you do it in a way that's real, in a way that isn't meant to just be like a trending topic or get clicks.

51:25It's this is my experience and this is how I felt about it. And I think we have to stop. We have to stop centering people when we have conversations. We have to actually center the thought behind it. So on the show, we're never going to talk about celebrities because the celebrity specifically isn't what's important. It's like, OK, well, why do we care about what that celebrity did? What does that have to do with our lives? Why does everybody seem to have such a visual reaction to this person that they do not know? And to me, that's more interesting because it's actually relatable to everybody.

52:01And I just generally think we should sort of stop celeb culture in the way that we do. Social media. Yeah, social media for sure. But the honesty thing is spot on. I even have struggled with that. And this isn't my core job to be on air and speak, but as part of our brand, I do it. And when I listen to earlier episodes, sometimes I'm like, what was I even saying? Why was I saying that? Not that I was embarrassed at the inexperience I had, but I remember the first pod I ever did was with Jack Dorsey. And I was like, who is that person interviewing him? Like, why am I talking like that? Why did I phrase the question like that?

52:40Yeah. And why am I not speaking? And it's probably why you think Howard Stern is so great. He's unequivocally himself. He's always been. Why do you think you were? Yeah. confidence, comfort. And everybody, and even saying that takes a level of confidence because I try to pride myself on being a very confident person, but there's two different confidences. It's like what's on the outside and what's on the inside. And sometimes what's on the inside can impact the outside and sometimes you can overcome it and push yourself through. Some people that have social anxiety walk in a room and as soon as they walk in, all of it gets ripped off and they're the life of the party but they still felt that level of angst totally not actors don't speak in public sometimes they can't even be around people and then you turn the camera on and they turn into someone else but i think for me it was just not feeling comfortable or confident enough or knowing or trusting that it was okay to say what i felt no matter what whereas i knew i could do that in any room but when the camera was turned on i didn't feel that way and i think that's what comes across in your show with joy like it does feel like you're like you know what fuck it like yeah this show I'm gonna say whatever I want yeah be embarrassed don't take yourself like so seriously you know I watched I watched this uh documentary called everything is copy it was about Nora Ephron who of course is just like the queen of rom-coms and what they say in the documentary is that she would say everything is copy you know that everything that happened in her life should be for consumption, for humor, for people to better understand.

54:15And one of the talking heads in it explained it as, if you slip on a banana peel and people laugh, it's their laugh. But if you slip on a banana peel and you tell people about how you slip on a banana peel, it's your laugh and you become like the hero of your own story. And so I think there really is like power in being honest about yourself, even when it's embarrassing, even if it makes you look bad because it's yours and you are creating whatever that narrative is. And so every time before I step in and do personal, I truly say like everything is copy. And most importantly, you are not as important as you think you are.

54:53That's the number two thing I say. Like you can say what this thing is and it's going to be okay because you move on to another thing the next day. We all feel like what we are saying is much more high stakes than it actually is. it is such a magical moment in your life when you realize totally you're not that important 100 and it takes you a bit to get there for sure when you realize it it's amazing and then what has to happen this is the the process as i see it when you're younger you think everything's that important yep and you get to a phase where you're like nothing's that important yes but there is a middle ground there's a middle ground and you have to honor what has been established in some ways as important you know there's certain things you know i'll talk to athletes who will say i'm not doing that shit i'm like you don't have to but let me just tell you what happens if you don't do it let me just tell you where this goes and then you still should be able to make that decision but some things are important and you even see that from certain artists i remember jay-z's speech at clive davis's party a few years ago was like which was a bit of a far cry from like some of the raps which is like i could buy billboards so what is a billboard list But then it was like, no, some of these things are just important.

56:07They are what they are. And you have to like strike that balance sometimes because you do want to have a fearlessness. But you do want to remember that certain things are the way they are for a reason. And if you want certain things for yourself, you have to be very aware of like striking that perfect balance. Oh, 100%. And even just as I hear you talking about this and you talk about not being as important as you think and the narratives that I feel like surround me. There was a moment in time where it used to bother me when I would do these interviews and then everybody makes their joke about, oh, they're sitting in front of Taylor like everybody's going to lie or over-exaggerate or whatever.

56:47That used to really bother me because I felt what people don't understand about interviewing, or at least with me, is that charisma is a skill. Making people feel comfortable is a skill. Being able to sit in a chair and get somebody to tell you something they've never said before is a skill. Now, because maybe to you, I make it look very easy, you are diminishing that skill to how I look. But this is how I am. This is how I do the job. And I think that when I realized that you just had to focus on that aspect of it, all that other stuff stopped mattering. And when I realized, again, I just am not as important as I think, it didn't matter to me.

57:34It didn't matter to me that people thought that about me because I know that I'm the magic in these interviews. Those athletes are interviewed by multiple people trillions of times a year. And they don't get what I got because that's about me. And people can say whatever they want about whatever they want. but the proof is in what you see that all of my interviews have a moment all of them because i work for that being able to talk to people is a skill that i think is sometimes downplayed again uh to make people feel a bit more comfortable about themselves but when you when you realize you're not as important you stop caring as much about people saying that it is such a skill and I think that's probably the one thing that the amount of pods or the amount of access and social media, again, has kept us from fully understanding.

58:32Because you think about the legends and the people that Barbara Walters or Diane Sawyer, David Letterman, three random examples, but three people that you just see their work and you realize they're flawless in how they do what they do. And it's no different than being the best at any skill or any profession. Yeah, I completely agree. so I'm gonna I'm gonna end with this question and I'm gonna end it uh in a different way than I was going to because of what you said earlier okay so I was gonna ask you what's the dream or where are we going and I realize now that the question with you should just be today what is the dream because it's gonna keep evolving yeah and for someone like you it should never be more than just how you're feeling today for sure no I like how you phrase that um i've been thinking a lot about so there's this paradox and it's called the ship of theseus and what it basically is it's like um there was this ancient warrior who brought his ship back to harbor and he was like great so they kept the ship there as a memorial but of course over time different parts of the ship would rot so they would replace it with new parts more would rot they'd place with new parts till eventually everything on the ship is new and the philosophical question I ask is, if all parts of this are new, is it still the ship of Theseus?

59:52And I think it's actually a much broader question about how we are always constantly changing. And if who I am today is so vastly different than who I was when I was 21, how am I still that same person? Or at least what parts of me from that still exist? So when I hear you talk about what it is that I want today, I think I think a lot more about the kind of person I want to be in 10 years and the thing that that person wants to show the world. And the constant, my constant part on my ship of theses has been people. And it has been wanting to make people feel comfortable when they're talking to me, wanting them to feel seen and heard.

1:00:40but also wanting people that are watching my stuff to feel important and to have like a feeling. I always say like I think about Oprah when I would come home from school. I knew that everybody in every house was watching Oprah. And if you missed what Oprah said, you felt like you missed out. And so you were trying to catch up to learn about Oprah's interview. And so in 10 years or whatever it is, I want you to feel like you missed out if you didn't see what I was talking about or who I was talking to. if you didn't get my opinion if you didn't hear my thoughts that's what i want it's so much more of like a feeling than it is a goal yeah you know i that's what i want amazing yeah well how do you feel up to this interview amazing you are an a plus interviewer i already knew that though but you are again the power is in the glasses it is in the glasses well thank you so much it's been such a joy and say how to joy for me.

1:01:38Of course I will. And I do, I do want to say this too, though. I feel like I've said this to you before, but what you have been able to build both personally with Kevin and just boardroom generally, I think is so special. And you've been able to so effectively merge culture and sports and the business of sports. I learned so much just when I hear you talk about things. I learned so much just from the boardroom Instagram. It makes me think about the space that we're in so differently. And I actually think that that's what your gift is, is that you make people see things differently and see people differently.

1:02:18Anytime I'm at an event that you have, that's how I walk away feeling. So I too just sort of want to give you your flowers because you have been nothing but a great friend to me. Also somebody I know I can come to you just to ask a question because you have guided many things. So I just want to make sure that you know that. Of course. Of course. Well, thanks for listening. Thanks for tuning in. And thanks for that again. Absolutely. See you soon. Bye.