The Music Mogul: Record Exec Steve Rifkind's Journey in Hip-Hop | Out of Office

0:01What's up, everybody? Welcome to another Boardroom out of office. Today, I'm here with a very special guest, somebody I've known for 25 years and somebody that's meant a lot to me in my career. please welcome the founder of Loud Records, founder of SRC, and currently the founder of Spring Sound, Mr. Steve Rifkin. The first person that really gave me a little crack in the door was Mark Ronson. And then Mark and I decide that we're going to start making the scene across all of the record labels and meet with all the titans, the heads of these labels, the people that we all were enamored by. And I go and meet with everyone and understand back then Mark is, you know, he's a hot DJ in the city, but it's relative.

0:45You guys were breaking artists. So Mark walks in and you guys want to know who Mark is, but no one cares who the manager is. So I go to Interscope. I go meet with a bad boy and people are looking right at Mark and I'm the guy holding the records basically. With the exception of my meeting with you. And the first time we met, you said the two of you have something special. I couldn't believe you acknowledging me. You said the two of you guys got to stay together that's what the magic is right here is the magic so let's talk about a deal so we left i remember we absolutely lost it on broadway and 56th street and i drove by that office today which is why this interview came full circle for me and why it's so special but um thank you by the way because you gave me that first spark where i said i could do this i mean And those, for me, anybody that comes in that's just creative, because when you have hit records, it's like, it's amazing, but you're getting hit every which way too.

1:52Like you don't know like a radio station is trying to get something out of you. Another record company is trying to get something out of you. This, that, or whatever. So when you guys came in, it was such fresh air. And the two of you together, I mean, it was truly, I mean, it was. You brought an energy and a light into my office that I thought it was really special. that's amazing i mean we had these like bounded decks and it was like this is mark these are artists and this is what we're gonna do and our models were like you guys and puffy and and jay and damon uh we didn't end up doing the deal by the way you know yeah i know that yes um but it really gave me this motivation that like one of those titans that i acknowledged as that identified me as somebody that had a reason to be in that room um so we went on and and obviously you know you still in my opinion sit in that Mount Rushmore but one of the things that came with your run at Loud was your ability to identify talent and for me when someone asked me like what it is that I love most about what I do or what would I say I'm best at and for me it was that I always gravitated towards people that were elite people that worked so hard at something that they could become so good and whatever I could do to help bring that to life or whatever I could do to help harness that or help them in their life was what I wanted to be next to.

3:14And you were able to identify talent all the time. And I'm not necessarily referencing you pointing me out when I came in, but you look at the artists you signed. And for everyone listening, it's Wu Tang and Mobb Deep and Fat Joe and Three Six Mafia and Akon. I could go on. And it's not just the artists, it's the projects. Did you know early because you got in the music industry so early that you could see talent that you could spot talent see i never to this day i don't consider myself an a &r guy i still consider myself a promotion guy so i think what my gift was that i would listen and i would see the energy in the room so that's how i really picked it like when i met rizza he was known as prince rakim i met him on my 31st birthday march 2nd 1993 and he comes in and the office that I was using was in I was living in LA but I was in New York and I was working at the RCA office and it was a quarter of the size and I was with Eastwood from the alcoholics and Rizzo comes in he goes do you mind if um the guys come up I don't know if there were three guys five guys I never mean that I think there would be nine guys and they came up and they gave me a concert and some guy came running into the office and they couldn't really open up the door and said that's that shit and walked out I never saw him again I got like a five million dollar check waiting for him like if he ever wants to show up um but at the end of the day it's just all energy for me so it's not like yeah i could oh this guy has an amazing voice or he has an amazing pen yeah i think you don't need talent to see that but you need to see the whole picture so the energy which probably in some ways is like that it factor the intangible the thing that nobody can describe or you can't work to achieve or you can't buy it.

5:02You wanted to be in the music industry because your father was in the music industry, right? I didn't know what I wanted to do, to be honest with you. I mean, I was so dyslexic as a kid. I didn't know how to read or write until I was 14 years old. So I was robbing, I was stealing. You really couldn't read or write until you were 14? Yeah. And then I realized I wasn't going to grow either, so my basketball career was... Were you good? You were good. Probably a good shooter, right? Yeah. Good distributor. You feel like you made the little no looks before everyone else. I could see you on the park doing the no looks.

5:31I think I heard about some of your Chelsea peers, like little dump balls. So I was getting in a lot of trouble. And I was doing it. I didn't need the money. I was just doing it just to get attention. And then my grandfather called me down. He was, you know, where all Jews go. You know, they retire in Florida. And he called me down. He goes, get down here. And he was really the only guy I was petrified of. And I flew down. He says, you're going to end up dead or in jail. I'm like, it's time to cut the bullshit. And he goes, I'll talk to your father. He goes, my father wants nothing to do with me.

6:08I mean, he loves me, but it was just like. You didn't have that rapport with him like you did your grandpa? No, I mean, I gave my father as a kid a lot of aggravation. Yeah. so you know him my uncle my cousins like i was like the black ball of the family it was like like when i would come they would all do you think like i met with someone i won't say who they are a week or two before i went away and incredibly successful and they told me they were dyslexic too as a kid and they didn't realize until later on when they found out that their child was they really never they knew it but they didn't want to say anything where were you acting out as a kid because you like no one really could figure out what was going on nobody nobody knew what dyslexia was right so and then um and i had a crazy ass temper yeah so they put me on some meds to control my temper and it was just like didn't work nothing worked but my grandfather you know he said i'll talk to your dad and then um and don't get it wrong i mean my dad is my idol i worshiped him it was his 91st birthday yes you know so it's like there's not a day i don't think about him but um i mean i drove this guy crazy um so two weeks later don't get there are no cell phones there aren't even pages at the time and um the house phone rings he goes pick me up um at five o 'clock at the airport i'm like what do you mean he goes just pick me up at five o 'clock so eastern airlines jfk eastern yeah yeah i pick him up he goes all right we're going into the city so i laughed and i was like who we robbing today you know and i and he goes no we're sitting down with um your dad and uncle roy and they and they like you know my uncle pretty much threatened me and he was like all right we're giving you a shot you fuck up one time like it's a wrap you're in the river like i mean he said something crazy and like we went at it and and that was the start of the record business for me and you became synonymous as like promo guy right like and obviously for again for people that don't know your history coin the phrase street marketing right street yeah street team i mean yeah i'm 18 years old so like they had me going to visiting radio stations down south you know who were program directors who were like 35 40 years old I'm 18.

8:39I'm like, why do I want to hang out with them for? I would end up going back to the colleges. And then I just put a whole network of people together. I mean, it took years. And that energy was because, you know, I always, for me, I think of like people like us, non-traditional kind of journey into what we're doing. And something brought us to like our industries. And for me, I love sports. I love hip hop music and the whole culture around it, watching it. I was watching it. I was younger and, you know, you were in the birthing it. You know, you were at the beginning of it. And I listened to one of your interviews and talk about, like, the very first hip-hop record put out commercially that you were a part of, right?

9:22Or your father's. Yeah, my dad and uncle put it out and I promoted it. I was on the road. But, you know, at the end of the day, like, when I met you, I mean, Akon was probably the biggest artist in the world and we were talking. and it was like when I said you and Mark were fresh light walking into an office. Like once I knew that you love basketball, that was our energy. Yeah, yeah. Right? And we would sit and talk for hours about it. So to me, you know, it's really just all about energy. So when Wu-Tang's performing and that kid comes running in the room, that energy you pick up on and then.

9:59I mean, I was like, first of all, I never saw anything. I never saw a rap group that was nine guys, eight guys at the time. Kappa wasn't in the group yet. So it was, I never saw energy like that. And then E. Swift from The Alcoholics, we just put out his record at that time. And it was like, you got to sign these guys. You'll own New York in two seconds. Only when I'm drunk. That was what I'm doing. Yeah. And RZA as a businessman and RZA at that age having, because as I've started to study more and more of the influence that that era had, in my opinion, on business in general and how corporate America's moved.

10:39When you think about what RZA was able to do and how old was he when he put Wu-Tang together? 20? 20, 21. But, I mean, RZA is like, you know, there's only a few. There's RZA, there's Jay, there's Puff. I mean, who just, you know, there's Chess and then there's Chess Plus. Like, you know, and it's just like he's always thinking, you know, four or five steps ahead. Yeah, RZA is definitely one of those, like, I feel like his legacy will grow in time even more so when you really look back at what he was able to do. The guys are touring more today, 30 years later, than they were in the 90s. Who is your, like, I don't even know if you're allowed to say this, but, like, when you look back on it, like, which one of them, when they came on the record, you was like, okay, that's the guy for me.

11:26everyone has one it's or you can like combine ray and ghost but everyone has a style within i mean it was totally different you know it was like how how it was set up you know meth's voice was always different and you know and and then if it was cream warfare even if it was his own record like he was the hook yeah right you know ray and ghost they were the best storytellers in the world you know jizza was the worst myth yeah so it's like and that's it but But, you know, meth had to stick out because that was the record. Yeah. MBTH or D-Man. Fat Joe, who you also obviously have been a part of his career from the beginning.

12:06And I saw last night, I saw on the gram, you guys are still thick as thieves, right? 100%. Similar, like, to that group of entrepreneurs. And it's mentioned, but I don't think mentioned as much, is how incredible Fat Joe's run and staying power and, like, dominance as a personality. and as like an executive and an entrepreneur has been you know to this day i tell everybody i say joe's the best a &r guy in the business like he you know he knows if he started in 90 i forget when flojo came out um 90 91 92 so 30 years later i mean this guy reinvents himself time and time and time and time again you know and then from him you know signing like i didn't discover joe like I met Joe when he brought pun to me you know and you know we both laugh about it and we tell the story is I meet Joe over the phone I'm in Chicago and the guy by the name of Mickey Benson introduced us over the phone and I'm flying home and I'm home is LA at the time and I'm flying back to New York on Tuesday and between Thursday and Tuesday I must have gotten 25 calls not to do not to even take the meeting with Joe that he's a killer a drug dealer an extortionist this that And I was like, nah.

13:21And I said, Joe, nobody wants us to have this meeting. I don't know if they're scared for us to be together, this, that, or whatever. And I'm just letting you know. And we're taking the meeting. And I said, as long as we're straight with each other, we're going to be good. So he says, and Pun wasn't there. And I said, when can I meet Pun? I said, I'm leaving Friday. I go, how about Thursday? So he said, all right, perfect. So I had a guy by the name of Matty C who discovered Biggie. Who found Biggie in the sauce, you know, the unsigned hype. And I had a royalty check waiting for Matty that it took him six weeks to pick up.

14:03And so it wasn't about money for Matty. It was always the music. So the meeting was called for 1130. I get into the office around 930, 10, and Matty's already in the office. He's probably out all night. And I'm like, and we're sharing an office. and I'm like, what are you doing? He goes, do you have a meeting with Pun? And I'm like, yeah. I said, all right. He came for that meeting. I signed Pun without hearing one ounce of music because Maddie showed up to that meeting. That's the energy again. You know, Joe thought I was full of shit. I was like, who's your lawyer? They walked in like, Pun nice meeting.

14:35You got a deal. And they said, we haven't heard of music. I said, that's your job to make the music. I'm not worried about that. You're here. And I believed in Joe. Me and Joe had a great meeting on that Tuesday. Joe's an incredible businessman. Because I know now from being in it and different stages of my own career how hard it is constantly pivoting, constantly having to reinvent yourself. To have a run, I mean, let's leave Jay and that type of run out of just the idea that Fat Joe from 1991 and now 2023 sitting courtside at an All-Star game, that's within the world that we're in. And that's like a symbol of the ultimate relevance.

15:15And he's always there. He's always there. And it feels like the culture you built in your office, because that was another thing. I remember from Mark and I, we would go up to your office and that was where we felt the most welcome, like where you let us sit around. And I sat around in your waiting room, not even like the second waiting room, the first waiting room, you know, like the one before the door with the button that would let you in. And even that felt welcoming. and it felt like you knew to have those type of people around you that could find talent but you could feel the energy through them and then you still could spot talent and you took a chance it felt like on a lot of artists that maybe a lot of labels wouldn't have right even the way you like dove in the mob deep at the time and um and there was always like even drama around so many of the artists that you represented but within your office it felt like it was some safe haven it It was definitely a safe haven.

16:07But, you know, I love to say as great as the roster that I put together, look at some of the executives I found. I mean, that to me is, you know, giving Guy Ossery, getting him his first record deal with a rap group, you know, signed to Elektra, giving Scooter his first record deal. I know we didn't do the deal, but, you know, seeing you and Mark in the beginning of your guy's career, I mean, I get off on that. I mean, that's another plaque on my wall. And that's how I look at it. You know, Rob Stone, you know, the same thing. You know, Rob was already proving himself, and he was the star executive.

16:42And then when we joined Forces, it was like, that was one of my proudest accomplishments, was getting Rob away from Arista and starting Cornerstone with him. Yeah. Because he was the most sought-after executive in the game. Yeah. So many amazing music executives came from the promo game. Like some came from the street game, but some really came like up the ranks of the record business through promo. Yeah. You know, because back in the day when there were record stores and radio really meant something, a great promotion guy, you had to deal with everything. You had to deal, yeah, with radio. But then you had to deal with retail because radio would call retail to see what was selling.

17:19Yeah. Right. Then you would have to deal with local press and like and just like you really had to own your market. So the hat that you wore had to cover a whole bunch of different bases. So if you were just marketing, you were just straight marketing. If you were A &R, your job was to make the music, but you should have been involved also in everything. And that's why in the 90s and how I grew up, a lot of the chairmen were promotion men. They all came from that. Yeah, so it was like when we would sign a record, Maddie could make the record, give me the record, and then I could run to Hot 97 or Power 106, you know, whoever we were if we needed to.

17:56But we did everything methodical. As crazy as we were, there was still a method to our madness. Did you get caught up at that time? And how caught up did you have to get in the East Coast, West Coast stuff? Or were you always somewhat neutral? We were Switzerland. I had officers. Don't forget, we had officers on both coasts. Were you cool with Suge? I only met Suge once my whole entire life. Do you think Suge, as an executive, when you look at that run, We did a poll on Boardroom the other day or within our staff of like hip hop rap label executives, like trying to stay in the niche. And Suge was higher up than I would have imagined based on just like I don't know necessarily if it was him as much as it was like having two transcendent stars that like carried the brand on their back or if it was him in some ways.

18:50You know, I think it was a team effort. I mean, Jimmy swears that Chug in the beginning stages was one of the best executives ever. Really? Yeah. He was a great businessman, smart guy. You know, and the one thing is you never heard him really taking advantage of the artist. And when I'm saying he fought. Welded. Yeah, when I'm saying he fought for his artist, not fought with his fist, but like he would really try and go the extra mile for his artist. Oh, yeah, I would imagine so, against anyone else. Yeah. But like I said, I only met him once. And it was like I called him one time when we were about to start the second Wu album to see if we could get Snoop on the album.

19:36And he never returned my call. And then I met him right before he went away again. Yeah. Who of that era, like, drove you? Like, did Puffy or Jay or Damon, did you look at any of them and it motivate you? Nah, if you can't motivate yourself, you can't be in business for yourself. Like, you know, it's like at that time, you know, I had a staff of close to 100 people. So it was like when I'm waking up in the morning brushing my teeth, you know, I was a brand new father and I had 100 people working for me. So it was like that was my responsibility. You know, you know, I wanted Puff to succeed. You know, Dame I've known since he's 15, 16 years old when he was managing Original Flavor on Atlantic Records.

20:18You know, he would come up, him and his cousin would come up to the office, you know, and scream. And, you know, we ended up having an amazing relationship. We did paid in full together. So, like, I never worried about what the next one's going to do. Because if you're going to look over your shoulder, you're going to trip eventually. Yeah. Just focus on what you got to do. I mean, I feel like that was even looking at some of the relationships you guys all have now. Russell, Ellie Reed, all of you. I mean, this is who I, you know, I wanted to be an athlete too growing up. I mean, most of us all did in some way, shape, or form.

20:55But quickly, the admiration I had for all of you guys and Sylvia Rhone and Julie Greenwald, like everyone of that era that I just saw as bigger than life in the same way that I looked at artists or the same way I looked at athletes. And to me, from my vantage point, it really has changed business. It has changed a lot. Do you think that's a bit of a bias? Or do your kids, who I know are in the music industry as well, do you feel like that era is revered in the same way that it should be? I don't know. I mean, that's an amazing question. It's like when I talk to my older son, who we work together, he likes to hear the stories, everything.

21:38But I'm standing back because I don't know what to do. It's like I'm used to the phone ringing 24-7, and having three calls on hold while I'm dealing. And it's like, I'm just sitting here. I'm like, Alex, what do you need me to fucking do? And it's like, man, just relax. So it was like one time, a few months ago, he goes, Dad, make this call. I was so happy. I was like, man, I finally accomplished something for today. Yeah. Because it's just a different, I mean, every tactic is different. What you crave, like the number one record or selling a certain amount the first week. Just the whole everything is different.

22:17But the stars, like some of these executives, Coach K and P and Sal, these are a generation that I'm sure can point back to what you guys did. I mean, definitely Coach. It's like I'm just so happy for what him and P did with Scooter. and even what Top's doing. I had a conversation, it was yesterday. Somebody told me, I left SRC, I sold it in 2012. There was no streaming yet. So from 2012 or 2000, yes, when I left to today, Akon streamed 19 billion streams. And I'm like, how much money is that? I'm like, what am I missing? you know that's right you know and i'm like you know i called my lawyer this morning these are true facts i'm like this wasn't there was like yeah how do i get some of this money like i don't even know what 19 billion streams is money wise a lot so i was like that's crazy and that's just one artist and that's but that's what the north star is then because that's like less of it is and maybe i'm wrong because i'm not in it i watch it we cover it but less of it is building these like foundational stars someone that's like still with you you know like the way i feel about the era that you know you were a part of do you get surprised at like jay-z and puffy's success at this caliber ever no way right you knew it who didn't know i mean i mean i remember one time i was walking i was on 20th street and park avenue and i see you was it the 190 mercedes and it was wrapped with Rockefeller.

24:06And I was like, all right, they got it. These guys are onto something. And Damon was an incredible executive. He doesn't get enough credit. You know, it takes two. I mean, nobody could question how smart Jay is, everything. But Damon's also great. And it was just like, unfortunately, they went their own ways. But, I mean, you know, Dane, Jay, and Biggs, I mean, they were, I mean. Everyone needed everyone. Yeah. Do you, like for me, I have kids that are 13 and 9. You had kids young, right? I was 33 when I had my first kid. But you were in it. You were in the middle of it. Yeah. Was balance hard back then?

24:49Because the record industry back then, and what I tell a lot of people that work with us here, is I felt fearful of going home too early, or I felt fearful of ever being seen as not having a phone in my hand or on my Blackberry or something. That was the climate. His first three years, before preschool started, wherever I went, I would take him with me, always, always. And then we had places here in L.A. I would run home while he would eat dinner. I would have his crumbs and then go back out and do whatever I had to do. But then there were times where it was just me and him where I would take him on the road with me.

25:37So you prioritized it early. That's amazing. I mean, I learned as crazy as I was, the love that I had for my dad, the love that I had for my uncle, the love that I had for my grandfather. I'm still all about family. Yeah, I've always felt that way. I mean, I know your brother well. You know, I've I've always seen you as like one of those guys, because that was that was something I remember from back then, too. Like it's when you're hustling and I know this, like if you're young and you're hustling, it's the the the kind of like the things you want are not necessarily like you don't want a job.

26:13You don't want a chance. You feel like you're going to get that. You just want someone to kind of like make sure that they can relate or acknowledge you or be like, you'll keep going. Like, I don't want to turn that off because that's like oxygen. You did that, right? You never turned it off to the young people around you. And I remember vividly family are asking about it. And to me, that's something I look at now because when you're interviewing someone, you can't, right? You can't technically get into that. But from the psychology of like where you prioritize family as an entrepreneur and where you don't, I think that when we were younger that you almost were looked at crazy if you prioritize family as much as your business.

26:56You really were. And I was never like that. You were never like that. And that's what I always admired about you. But I think that's changed quite a bit now. Unless you think. What? That people are about family? That is balance, obviously. Like you can't even say those words back then. It's such a different business, right? I mean, I guess COVID, right? I saw you right before COVID at the concert. right so i mean people are working at a home now this that so on so i guess there can be a balance but and there should be a balance but you just you know if you're gonna have kids you brought them into the world you gotta step up you know you can't be one and done and like oh and go to baby mama i'm out like take responsibility 100 um let me ask you like a tactical business question because we talked earlier, you came up the phrase street team and street marketing when we were in the record business was like plastering stickers and showing up in front of every right party and going from market to market.

28:00That got lost and then that somehow was acknowledged as a waste of money. Don't put a billboard up or don't do traditional marketing. It's all digital, digital, digital. Now we're 20-some-odd years of hearing that and digital is so saturated. You can't break through. and the value around marketing and the physical and creating experience is back. And you being someone that helped bring that into the music industry, do you see that coming back again as a real value add? And how can you take some of that skill set you have again and bring that to life? I have that conversation with my son every single day.

28:37It's like pressing a button and looking at analytics, you can't read anything. You can't feel anything. You can't smell it. and I was like you do what you do and let me do what I do and then watch what happens so and it's a lot of screaming a lot of arguing but we're finally in a rhythm like I said like I I just don't want to sit I'm used to my phone ringing 24 7 have you know when you had an office four or five lines on hold and then and then at the at the end of the day it's like we're in a rhythm now you know and we do have this artist that's breaking a year ago he had donuts all across the board he had zero followers on tiktok no monthly listeners on spotify nothing and now i think we're what close to 600 000 on tiktok and um 200 000 on spotify so and it's just like and i'm like get this kid out his energy out into the world right he has to start and and the kid works and the kid really works so tell me everything you're doing right now because i know i mentioned earlier loud src the street team but you're still in it you're as relevant and in it again as you've ever been and you look as good if i do say so myself i appreciate it been in a long time brother look young i feel thin yeah um tell me everything you're doing i started a new label um i took my dad's label which was called spring records so we um we're calling to Spring Sound, so it just added a little bit of that.

30:11I have that. I'm going into the concert business now, so it's like, you know, you look at all these legacy artists, you know, I'm working on a residency in Vegas. That's cool. What, switching up the, or like a block at a time? No, it's just going to be, it's going to be just a hip-hop residency. That's cool. It's not going to be just loud. It's going to be everybody, and it's going to be, we don't know if it's once a month twice a month i love that so um there's that and i'm going back into consulting taking on your expertise over the last yeah 30 some odd years and i feel like that's what businesses and young founders right now are craving is like that conduit between i'm still relevant i still understand what's happening in culture right now but i can tell you like both sides of the fence i can tell you years of mistakes i made and things i did and i have a rolodex that is like untouchable yeah you know and and the thing is i also sold two record companies where one wasn't like they were both granted loud might have been the coolest label in the world but src might have even been bigger than loud i mean we had the biggest artists in the world was they come the biggest artist you worked with ever in terms of just sheer global magnitude yeah i mean it was 19 billion streams and it's crazy without anybody with no promotion no marketing just on the record incredible man well for me this interview um definitely was like i said a full circle moment i feel like there's a lot we still have to do in life together whether it's in sports or music um and i appreciate you taking the time coming on boardroom i appreciate I just want to say how proud I am and just like seeing you where you are now and like, you know, following you on Instagram and just seeing you who you're with this, that or whatever.

32:07And really what you've accomplished, man. So it makes me happy. And thank you, bro. Appreciate you. Thanks for listening. Subscribe, download, go to boardroom.tv and we'll be back soon.

32:28Thank you.