‘We Sell Scarcity:’ How Lamborghini Continues to Stay So Cool

0:00This week on Bold Names, he's the CEO of Lamborghini, Stephan Winkelmann. His cars are seemingly everywhere, from songs, to Hollywood blockbusters, Will you be wanting the back putter? Middle of the day, Alfred? Not very subtle. The Lamborghini then? Much more subtle. Even my kid nephew has a couple toy versions. But in reality, Lamborghini only delivers about 10 ,000 vehicles a year. So how does Stefan keep these dream machines so relevant? That's next.

0:36From the Wall Street Journal, I'm Tim Higgins, and this is Bold Names, where you'll hear from the leaders of the bold name companies featured in the Wall Street Journal.

0:50Stefan, welcome to the show. I'm curious, who is the typical Lamborghini owner? I have to say that we are getting more and more young people behind the steering wheel of a Lamborghini. Now the average age is below 45. The youngest customers we have in Asia, followed by the Americans and the oldest here in Europe, they are mainly male. We have around about 7 % to 8 % also female drivers, which is very welcome. Most of our customers, they love made in Italy. They love those type of cars. They're usually entrepreneurs or CEOs of big companies. But we also have a lot of movie stars, artists in general, and also sports stars.

1:40So we have a bit of all and we have a lot of fans even without a driver's license. Absolutely. I will say that I was visiting with my six-year-old nephew the other day, and he was showing me his Lambo collection. He keeps it next to his Pokemon cards, and I felt like that is kind of indicative of maybe where he's going to go. He's going to get into crypto so he can finally afford a Lamborghini when he hits 16. But you would know about who these customers are. I mean, you're not only the CEO, but this is your second stint as CEO of Lamborghini. Early in your career, typical, I mean, you worked with more mainstream brands like Fiat in certain European markets.

2:21And I wonder, how is it your job different running Lamborghini, which does, what, 10 ,000 vehicles a year versus a mainstream car company, which maybe does 10 ,000 vehicles in a factory in a week or something like that? I mean, this is like a different kind of mindset that you have to show up to the job, I have to imagine. This is something which for sure is a much more entrepreneurial job. But let's say the contact with the customer or the dealers is something which is always about relationship. It's clear that the smaller the brand, the more you have to focus on the single customer. And this is something which, in my opinion, is the paramount for our success.

3:05When you go into brands which are around us, you are selling mobility. We are selling dreams. So for us, this is the major difference. So you buy a Lamborghini because you desire to have one of our cars, not because you need it, but because maybe it's a dream which you have since your childhood. And this is something which is very difficult to achieve because we have, when we develop our car, always to go the extra mile. We have to overachieve the expectations. It should be a dream of many and a reality of few. And if we achieve this, then we have done a good job. And since you've returned, Lamborghini has been on something of a tear.

3:50What's been driving that? You know, after COVID, there was for sure a clear strategy from our side. We wanted to renew all the product lineup. we said we want to be more sustainable but even more performing than the generation before with a complete new design, so a complete new car and this is something we achieved by having all the lineup plug-in hybridized this means that our V12 now is a plug-in hybrid car and also the Uros is a plug-in and also the follow-up, the Huracan which is now a V8 turbo car with a plug-in hybrid. So this was a clear strategy which we kicked off at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021.

4:38And this is something which the customers appreciated. And also the fact that we have a brand which is increasing in value. We have a very stable and balanced distribution in the major areas of the world, so the main regions. We are not pushing cars into the market, but we always sell scarcity. And this, after a period of time, is not paying out and we increase the volume. But we always had, let's say, an order bank, which was solid, which was at least one year long. So between ordering a car and delivering the car, you always have at least one year. And so far, it worked out. And I definitely want to talk more about hybrids with you.

5:31And I'm actually interested in getting deeper into the used car market because I think that's a fascinating development in recent years. But first, let's talk about 2025. What's the mood of the supercar buyer? On one hand, the stock market for some is doing very well. but there's also some uncertainty about the economy. If we look into the global situation of the markets, there was this bubble, which was lasting until let's say the year 2023. So there was this enthusiasm and this YOLO effect. Now you only live once, which was very important for all the brands, but it was also important at that time not to overdo it and not to think that this was the new reality.

6:18So we knew from the very beginning that sooner or later there would be a saturation of the market. And therefore, since 23, the market is decreasing a bit. And for us, this was meaning that we looked into what was happening very carefully. And we have, let's say, the positive effect that we have new cars stepping in, so new models. Yes, in a more competitive market, but so far for us, it's still working out. For sure, what is changing is that we have in this year the euro-US dollar effect, which is affecting our margins. We have the euro with the Japanese yen, which is affecting our margin. And we have the tariffs, which was not foreseen at the beginning of 2025 in the U.S.

7:19Yeah. So you come out of COVID. There's a bubble of enthusiasm among buyers who you only live once. They want to get a Lamborghini to fulfill those dreams. And then you're seeing a little bit of a slowdown since 2023. And then you get into 2025. And I think I want to hit on this tariff issue in particular. You had to raise prices, right, in the U.S. to deal with that. Did that affect your customer? So for sure, we have increased the price a bit, but not to the same level as the increase of the tariff. So there is still a gap between the two numbers. And for sure, there is a way of thinking more about what and when to buy.

8:03but we also strongly believe that this is going to be only for the time being and then the market, if there are no major changes in the economy, we'll get back to a pace which is similar to before. So we see some slowdown in the market so far, but this is something which we were expecting at the beginning and now we have to see by the beginning and the first half of 2026 what is going to happen. After the break, Lamborghini is known for its fast, full-throttle engines. But the company is embracing hybrids. The question is, do hybrids live up to the brand's reputation? There is no period in the history of Lamborghini which is without challenges.

8:57Yes. But it has to be done in a way that the performance is increasing. Stay with us.

9:16Did you ever consider moving production from Italy to the US? I mean, the US is your largest market by unit sales. Was that ever on the table? No, because we have, let's say, our strength is the main in Italy. We are producing a bit more than 10 ,000 cars on average in the last years. So this will be something which is not logical in terms of economy, but also in terms of what the customers are expecting. The customers are expecting the original. They're expecting the car being produced here, not in Italy, but more than in Italy here in Santagat, a Bolognese. And therefore we have the majority of the customers which at least once come to visit the factory before their car is produced or while the car is in production.

10:12How many customers, what percentage of your customers do you think come to the factory? I mean, they got to pick out the interiors, the leather or whatever, right? I mean, it's got to be a lot of fun to sit down. We have a studio here in Tartula, which is called a personal studio, where they can individualize their car. And this is happening every day. And this is very positive for us. But back to what you asked, at least, let's say, once they come to visit when they are our customer. You're getting into a big moment for the company in the first quarter of 2026. customers are finally going to be able to take delivery of your newest offering, the Temerario.

10:53Did I get that correct? Yeah, Temerario, yes. And that's Italian for what? Fearless? No, Temerario is, yeah, it's courageous, no? And it's the name of a fighting bull because the tradition in Lamborghini is to name the cars after fighting bull because our logo has the bull in it. So therefore, it's a tradition that we are picking is the name of a fighting bull and temeraries love them. This is a hybrid offering, right? The engine from its predecessor goes down to a V8 from a V10, but it still has a lot of that performance. I don't know if a customer would actually notice it. I haven't had a chance to drive it yet, but what I've read still seems to be pretty impressive.

11:34Why hybrid? Is this all because of government regulations around the world, or is there a huge demand for hybrid among supercar buyers? There is no period in the history of Lamborghini which is without challenges. So be it economically or technically or regulatory or studies-wise, there's always something which is happening. And for sure, the effect of sustainability is something which is affecting the world. So we said hybridization can be a good opportunity to lower the CO2 emissions, but it has to be done in a way that the performance is increasing. And the combination of an internal combustion engine and a powerful battery with electric motors is giving you the opportunity to be even more performing.

12:29and one of the base briefings I gave or we gave to ourselves when we were developing those cars is that if you go on a race trip and you have a battery which is at 100 % or even less and you do hot laps, so fast laps, and you go back into the pit lane, the battery never has to be empty. Why? Because it always has to be at your disposal for performance because if you empty the battery, you drive around with additional weight, which is not what we want. So this is exactly what I see as a benefit in terms of sustainability, but even more in terms of high-performance electric vehicles. One of the challenges with hybrid is you kind of have two powertrain systems going on in there, right?

13:22You've got the traditional gasoline or petrol or diesel-powered engine, and then you've got all the components needed for the battery part of the vehicle. Some people would say, go all electric. And I know you as a company have been talking about all electric. I think in 2023, you announced plans for an all electric offering. But then I think that the future became a little murky for the Lanzador, right? That's the right name for that. You're talking maybe it'll be hybrid instead. What are you deciding? So what we decided, when we decided with this strategy of Direzione Cortaoli, to have first all the cars plug-in hybrid and then part of the cars also full electric, what we always do is market analysis and depth.

14:10And what we saw is not only for our type of cars, but in general, there is a flattening of the acceptance of full electric cars generally worldwide. And this is even more valid for our type of cars. So the first presentation we took is that the follow-up of the Urus, which today is a plug-in hybrid car, is not going to be in the next generation, which is coming out in 2029, a full electric car, but again a plug-in hybrid car with another V8 engine. And for the Lancer, so the model number four, we are going to decide very soon. In the next weeks, this is something we are going to decide, because this is a car which is then going to be delivered starting from 2030, so from the end of this decade.

15:07So we have to decide pretty fast whether we go full electric or also plug-in hybrid with this one. After the break, regulators are increasingly pushing for fully electric cars. But it isn't clear customers are sold. How is Stefan bridging this divide? So for us, technology and innovation is paramount for the success of the future, but not in every sense. That's next.

15:50I mean, you are kind of getting at one of the challenges that the entire automotive industry has at the moment, not just the top of the top like yourself, but trying to figure out where the market's going many years in advance. This isn't like a cell phone that's going to come out next year. This is something that takes many years to develop. And you're not quite sure where the market's going, right? I mean, I think if we were having this conversation five years ago, kind of the rise of Tesla and the success it was having with customers and also regulators around the world was the idea that everybody was going to go all electric.

16:24But we've seen a slowdown in that. When do you feel like you saw the market change? There's a forecast in terms of the adoption rate of full electric cars and percentage year on year. And if you see that this is flattening, then it's something which is obvious. And for us, in our type of segment, today, there are very few manufacturers which have full electric cars, and they are not as successful as they were expecting, to say the least. So for us... Especially in that luxury space, right? Exactly, because you buy this car, as we said, because you dream of it and you want to have the sound of the engine.

17:07And this is something which with the electric car is difficult to have. So we have to see on our side, we would be ready. But if the market is not ready, if the customer is not ready, then it's useless to do something which is technologically possible. but very few people then are willing to buy. So for us, technology and innovation is paramount for the success of the future, but not in every sense. So for the electric engine, this is not the case. I mean, it's an interesting situation, right? You've got the European market with the EU and the UK market, And these regulators there, lawmakers there have banned gasoline powered vehicles or petrol, diesel cars in 2035.

18:03Though I know in the EU there's a huge effort to lobby to change that. But it is part of the mix, right? One of the challenges you've got is to try to appeal to the buyer who wants to spend a lot of money. Is that what they want? And then you've got regulators around the world pushing towards electrification of the automobile. And it's just not quite sure if everybody's in alignment yet. very true and this is not the only try it's not only about regulation and let's say the technology but it's also about infrastructure is about green energy for their local and about cost yeah i mean you hit on this earlier in the conversation where just lamborghini or any automaker it's always a challenge there's always challenges right whether it's technological geopolitical the markets uh you're part of a a larger company a volkswagen based in germany and it's tough to be a European automaker these days, especially with the rise of Chinese competitors.

18:59That's not your space, really. I mean, you're playing in rarefied air, but I'm curious if you've got a view of the larger automotive market these days. Are we going into kind of a winter? I can speak for Lamborghini, you know? So Lamborghini is in a good position, but for sure, we are living in a market, which, you know, the global automotive market is 80 plus million cars delivered each and every year. When we speak about the segment we are in, we are a bit more than 100 ,000 globally spread all over the place. So it's very difficult to make four cars to see where the market is going, because the change can be from one day to the other.

19:44So we are always very careful. And for us, the most important thing is to safeguard the brand they made in Italy and to have a car which is always very much matching with the core values of our brand and the expectation for sure of the customers. I just saw a new study out from Boston Consulting Group and DuPont Register Group that actually predicts that the ultra luxury car market in the US is going to rise dramatically in the next decade. The total market value they think is going to go up about 60%. And that's for vehicles that sell between$170 ,000 to half a million. And then the hyper luxury market, something even higher than half a million, they expect that to grow too.

20:25The study did a survey of owners and shoppers for these kind of vehicles and found that consideration was higher among millennials and Gen X for Lamborghini than maybe previous generations, which is, I think, getting at what you were saying as you're seeing a younger buyer come into the market. And the interesting thing they found, and I'm wondering if you see the same, is that younger buyers are seeing these vehicles more as an investment where maybe older buyers were motivated by technological innovation and just owning the latest thing. I am curious, do you have insight into what's driving younger buyers into your vehicles?

21:00Yeah, you're right. You're right. There's more and more the buyers see the car is not only something which is nice and exciting while driving it or looking at it, but also an investment because they want to see how the residuals are. Back in the times, it was less this way. It was more about enjoying the car and being proud to own one of those cars. Okay, I wonder where you see the brand in the next decade and beyond. What is your hopes for it? For me, it's important that the brand is always matching at least the expectations of our customers. And knowing, as also you said, it's getting more and more difficult to make a preview of what is going to happen in the years to come.

21:56I hope that we are never failing our forecast in terms of technology. And if this is the case, the brand will be a shining star even more than today with cars which are matching or overachieving expectations over the years to come. Well, Stefan, thank you so much for making time. I look forward to talking to you more about Lamborghini in the future. Thank you.

22:29And that's Bold Names for this week. Our producers are Danny Lewis and Alexis Green. Our video producer is Kasha Broussalyan. And our fact checker is Aparna Nathan. Jessica Fenton is our technical manager. Jessica and Michael LaValle. Our sound designers, Jessica also wrote our theme music. Our supervising producer is Katie Ferguson. Our development producer is Aisha Al-Muslim. Chris Sinsley is the deputy editor and Felana Patterson is the Wall Street Journal's head of news audio. For even more, check out my columns on wsj.com. We've linked them in the show notes. I'm Tim Higgins.