Catching the Sync: Why Non-Optional Collaboration is Your Business Superpower

27:41and like it's yeah it's probably the most fascinating place on the planet yeah very humbling I always say it's like an assault on the senses when you first land in India and there's this smell I can't describe it there's a smell when in the air when you land and you get off the plane and you go out and the heat hits you and the noise and the colors and it really is isn't it it's like whoa this is something quite unique so yes I would encourage anyone if you've not had an experience whether you're going to love it or hate it it's something to be experienced in life for sure and yeah I'm a great fan and you know Chris you were talking about talent actually and and create you know focusing on talent and creating great teams and stuff and you've worked across lots all these continents and different cultures now what I'm interested in you can have all of that and you have these global teams but they may still fail even though they've got great talent what what what's what's your experience and why do you think that can be you know you've you look on the surface you look like you've got everything but it's still not successful oh i you know and i and again you know i've tried to sort of share this in my book because to your point right you you can be fortunate to have a fantastic team right you know however then you need a framework to work with.

29:04And then you need to be actively involved in the execution. And you need to make sure you've got a culture that is able to adjust. You know, hopefully you've put an amazing business plan together. It's beautifully aligned. It's focused on the right markets and customers and all the checkboxes. But Jeanette, how many times do you go into companies and you're like, oh yeah, yeah, I'll get you a copy of the strategic plan, right? And they pull it out of some dusty top drawer or some digital archive and no one's using it, you know, but it got the board off my back. It got my millions of dollars worth of investors.

29:39And yeah, everyone knows it. You know, my brother who's consulting, right? He said he worked for a major company and he did some analysis that only 30 % of this large company, people have actually read the strategic plan. So how do you expect people to be implementing that strategic plan? Right. And so you've got to connect these dots because, yes, you need a you need a kick ass, a kick ass plan, I call it in the book. OK, yes, you need a great team together. But my God, then you need to make sure that team knows how to work together. And then you need to put the operating system in place that keeps you accountable.

30:22And, you know, it's the old adage. How do you eat an elephant, right? One bite at a time. And Cisco had this amazing culture that some people didn't enjoy. And it's called the weekly commit. And so the idea is you take this strategic plan, put it into quarterly bite-sized chunks, then you put it into monthly, then you put it into weekly. And the check-in on Mondays is, first of all, in God we trust, everyone else bring data. It is metrics-driven. Are we on or off track? I don't care how much possession of the ball you have. How many times has the ball gone on the back of the net? And it better be the opposing team's net, not your net.

31:05So ground yourself in data. And then the roll call is strategic alignment based. What did you do last week that executed against that plan? What are your plans for next week? Is there any news we can use? Can we, you know, let's not do it all alone. What's the best practice of, well, I tried that piece of material and it was horrendous. Oh my God, I used this video and the customer was just engaged, right? So that active collaboration while holding yourselves and the team accountable, you've got to have an active plan. You've got to keep doing it. And then you've got to be brave enough to be able to call a timeout to say, oh, damn, you know, this bit isn't working, ladies and gentlemen.

31:55Or why are sales and marketing button heads? And it's okay to call a timeout and say, let's get in a room and have a conversation. And all of a sudden you're like, you know, sales guys are too busy to read the marketing material, marketing material, assume the sales team are using it. And before you know it, all this incredible work is not being used effectively, let alone getting to the very customers that it's intended for. Yeah, no, it's really interesting, actually, because I think you're right. You can have all the component parts and all the ingredients to make the cake, but actually it's the combination, isn't it?

32:29And sometimes the order that you actually apply them in as well. And you were talking about data. I interviewed a gentleman called Jean-Jacques Moran, who is the group deputy CEO of Core Hotels. I've been doing a lot of work with Jean-Jacques and his team. So he's the second. He's number two in an organization with three hundred and forty thousand people. They have forty five brands, all these hotels and stuff. Real big hitter. And they spent a lot of time in in in sort of other industries as well. but he had a say when I interviewed him, he said something along the lines, I don't want to quote it verbatim, but you don't have to be religious for this, but in God we trust, in everything else we believe in data.

33:11And he made exactly the point about data. And then the other aspect he put into is you've got to have a stomach for it. You've got to have a sense and a gut and a feel as well as the data. You've got to be able to apply, you know, does this actually feel right as well, which comes back to your emotional intelligence point, right, and how you get the right combination. And so the book is going to be, you know, I mean, obviously it's out there and everyone, you know, get your copy right now because, you know, we need inspiration, don't we? We need guidance. And I always say, you know, I've made stacks of mistakes, but if you can learn from my mistakes, you don't make them, then that's that's a much smarter thing to do.

33:52because, you know, and if we all do that and lean into the knowledge, advice and support from people that have been there and have got the warm wounds along the way, it allows us to go further faster. And I think that whole kind of coaching, mentoring, giving back, which is a big part of what you're doing now, Chris, with the book, is so important, you know. Yeah, Jeanette, you touched on some amazing things there, right? Going back to that phrase we use an awful lot as well, right? In God, we trust everyone else bring data. And hopefully it's a compliment to the religious people, you know, that we're not getting confused in business.

34:29But also the other key theme is this topic of culture. You know, you know, the culture back in good old days of Cisco, John Chambers used to rank his executive team publicly every 90 days. How many customer briefings have you done? And what score did you get from your customers? And so if you were a bad presenter, you'd be way down on that list and you'd be quaking. However, the culture was, what behavior did it drive? I don't want to be bottom of that list. I'll go and take a training course. I'll understand how to present better. I'll make sure I listen to my customer. And all boats rose to a better level.

35:11But some people don't like being held accountable, right? You know, there's that great line, don't confuse effort with results. You know, some people know I'm working hard. Oh, my God. You know, I was in the office late. Oh, my God. Look, I sent emails late at night. It's like, OK, you know, I expect if you are gainfully employed, you're going to work hard, you know, but but what's the output? And it comes back to strategic alignment. Everyone can be busy, but if you're not focused on the right things that we agree to, you are diluting that very experience. And prioritization, oh my God, you know, you'd think it would be so easy.

35:56but I think prioritization is probably one of the hardest things in life, in business to stay focused. The great Jeffrey Moore from Crossing the Chasm, beautiful analogy of, you know, if you have a piece of paper, a magnifying glass and some sunshine, probably not the best analogy for a British audience, but come to California with me for a minute. You know, how do you get, how do you create flame, right? You hold that magnifying glass for what, You don't randomly move that magnifying glass around that piece of paper, right? You hold it at one point for what feels like an uncomfortable period of time.

36:33And it's actually not that long. And then you get combustion. And that along a lot of experiences of, no, no, no, no, no. We said this was the priority. No, no, no. We said, you know, let's stay focused on, let's prioritize. let's align that active collaboration it takes a lot of work you know that I think the benefit us advisors have all of a sudden you get to see a vantage point that a well-intended CEO or COO kind of who doesn't show up to a CEO meeting intentionally engaging that's career limiting stuff that's not the meeting you need to understand It's like when they leave your meeting, it's like when you leave, you know, what are they doing in their meetings when they, you know, meet the most junior people or senior people?

37:27What is that cultural mix to keep your strategic plan executing at the most efficient, high impact mode you possibly can have? Yeah. And it's the discipline, isn't it? You know, sometimes it's doing the boring bloody stuff, you know, and doing it again and again and again and again. I mean, how does someone get good at sales, right? Because they're out there pitching, pitching, pitching, refining the pitch, going for the no, going for the no, going for the no. You know, I mean, it's repetition, repetition, repetition, right, that leads to mastery in anything. And I think it's that. There was in East London, and that was way before, you know, Canary Wharf and the redevelopment, right?

38:01That was, you talk about welcome to the school of hard knocks. Boy, just sobering experience, but made you better at overcoming objections, made you better at positioning your company for value for your client. And everyone's got to realize they're part of that customer success journey. It's not just the sales team. It's the marketing team. It's the finance team. It's how you interact with your customers. That culture of joint success, partnerships is so key, right? Is it really a win-win, that proverbial, terrible math exercise, right? One plus one must equal three, not two. Or one and a half.

38:42Exactly. Just a better increase. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, Chris, what do you think separates leaders that scale and can really drive significant growth and leaders that have businesses that plateau? What do you think is the, you know, from a leadership point of view, what's the difference between that growth and huge success and steady Eddie? Yeah, wow, that's a great question. You know, sort of one of my most immediate reactions is, hey, you know, luck and timing, right? Some leaders look damn good on paper. And God bless them, right? You know, they're talented, obviously, but hang on a minute.

39:27You know, you were at the right place at the right time. Right. And I'll put the early days of Cisco into that. Right. You know, purchase orders and the demand was off the charts. You know, hey, there was competitors, you know, but then you get knocked on your tail. Are you really good at making the necessary adjustments that need to happen? Right. And so, and this is where I got an awful lot from working with Jeffrey Moore. He wrote the book Crossing the Chasm, which was kind of this hands-on guide of dissecting exactly what you just said. And he starts off his engagements with why are some companies great at going from zero to a billion and then they stall at a billion or zero to one million and stall at a million.

40:11And it is exactly about the leaderships and the leaders, not just EQ, but their situational awareness. Can they adjust and evolve, right? Can they understand that, oh, okay, in this next phase, we're going to need something slightly different. and John Chambers was masterful at this because he would, you know, at a billion dollars, he would start recruiting executives that were used to$10 billion companies because his mentality was, you've seen$10 billion. This company hasn't at the moment. So I need you to help us start putting in the right methodologies or the new processes or the talent to get us to 10 billion.

40:59And, and, and, and it wasn't like he fired 10 billion people when we, you know, when we hit 10 billion, he didn't fire those people, but he'd help them nurture and grow. But, but I think that situational awareness and, and, you know, one of the things I think the toughest lesson to learn in life is signing up for constant learning, right you know you know especially here in america where people write a damn big check to get educated at college you're like well okay i'm done now right i got my great degree from a prestigious college you know this is great now i just get to play in the business world it's like yeah no you know you know and similar with me right you know 30 years into business this ai tsunami starts blowing up, I'm like, how the hell am I going to, you know, get relevant?

41:50And the company at the time I was working with was very nervous and resistant about the phenomenal research they had, and they didn't want to share it in the AI early models. And so I signed up for an MIT course on AI and business strategy. And all of a sudden, I'm like, wow, you know, the amount of material out there to be used. So you've got to have that mindset of constant improvement, evolving. But it's not easy because we're all challenged with conformational bias. You know, the history, well, hey, I was successful at a billion. Look how good I am. Of course that's going to help me get to five billion, right?

42:36Not necessarily true, right? How can you kind of adjust and evolve? Yeah, yeah, because that's true. You know, what's got you to where you are now may not be what's going to get you to the next stage of growth. And I think if you're an ambitious organization, ambitious leader, you know, yes, you're going to have a goal. You get there and then you're going to raise the bar, right? You're going to raise the bar again because, you know, you're not going to be just be comfortable sitting there at that level unless you are a plateau leader, in which case you may be. Right. But if you're not and you want to really go for it, you're always going to be raising the standards, raise the standards.

43:09You know, the Kaizen principle is going to be like constantly there, isn't it? Constant improvement. And I think that's quite fascinating, really. No, I got the good fortune of being invited. GE, the energy spinoff, invited me and a colleague to an event that basically taught that lean Kaizen theory that basically has kind of been embedded in supply chain and manufacturing for so many years. and their whole conference was why does supply chain and manufacturing get all the good toys, right? Everyone needs, first of all, to have a positive mindset and then no matter how good or how bad it is, are you signing up for constant improvement?

43:52And it was probably one of the best conferences I've been to for a long time. You know, Wolfgang Puck was there, CEO Ford, Yanis, NBA, you know, emeralds of the American Navy. It was amazing. And they all had this common theme of they've got a positive mindset and no matter how successful we can keep improving. Right. It's actually one of the big surprise posts. I'm doing a lot more digital marketing nowadays. And I shared a training session we had with the blue angels. You know, the Blue Angels is the Red Arrows equivalent in America, right? They're just incredible, you know, formation flying, you know, team.

44:36And one thing they shared with us is this flightless, rankless debrief they do every time they fly. You know, we're not talking about just on these secret missions. We're not talking about just when they flew over, you know, Buckingham Palace, right? Every time. And the culture they have is the person fueling the plane, the youngest person, you know, the five star general. Everyone in that room can say, you know, I don't think your head was in the game as you walked up to that plane. Right. You looked a little distracted today, you know, or, you know, I noticed you knocked something that could have damaged something.

45:15We're going to be really careful. And this comes back to that culture of collaboration. Right. And that just got tremendous reaction because I think it hits the human side of business. Right. And that was, you know, the subtitle of my book is human leadership in an AI world. You know, we're very paranoid about jobs that are going to get lost. And, you know, AI is going to take over the world and with the robots are coming. And hey, all of that is true. Right. I've been working with Tesla and Google and Microsoft the last couple of years. is it's incredible the amount of compute power and the way it's coming to us.

45:50However, being the digital optimist that I am, is that a superpower we want to use for good or not good? And a Stanford professor did this breakout session at NVIDIA's conference, and she talked about, right, us humans have got this very interesting track record of creating tools. Take the car wrench. If you're stuck on the M4 and pouring down with rain, that car wrench is a very useful tool to change your time. If you're walking down a dark alley and someone has a car wrench, the scenario could look an awful lot different. So how do we actively use AI and robotics for the good of human nature, for the good of the planet, for the good of the community, for the good of the country, for the good of the team you represent?

46:38You've got to lean into it. You've got to explore it. You've got to have that curiosity factor to understand the good, the bad and the ugly, so to speak, you know, to make sure we've got it positioned in the right place, leverage for the right outcomes. Yeah, there's a lot in there, isn't there? And I think you're right. People are sometimes coming from a position of fear of what they're going to lose as opposed to what they've got to gain. And again, it's a mindset shift. But so, Chris, what are you what are you seeing with businesses that may be starting today with or with the with all the AI and the pace of everything without the legacy systems as opposed to, you know, more historic businesses that have got legacy systems?

47:17They want to be a speedboat, but it's more like trying to turn a tanker. So I guess for a startup, what do you think they should be doing in today's world to create a successful business? What would be the things if you were going in advising a startup, you'd say, right, these are the first things you need to do. First 30 days, do X, Y, Z. That's the first question. Then I want to ask you about legacy businesses trying to bring in the tech, which is a different challenge. Boy, that's a couple of hours worth of dialogue. You want a quick fly around, Chris. I know. You know, what's that great phrase?

47:59You know, there's no elevator to success, right? You know, there's no easy button, right? So even with AI, yes, it's going to change things, accelerate things, but make sure you've got that foundation and the framework in place to do the basics brilliantly, right? You know, it's so important. And the good news is with AI, you can do that at incredible pace nowadays, right? And so even if you're a startup, you got to put a plan together. You got to get your resource, including AI, aligned to the plan. And I think the biggest learning a lot of us have found is AI is not perfect. You got to check it.

48:40You've got to make sure the reaction you're getting is aligned to your human mindset, your ethics, morals, focus, or whatever. There's that. You've even got to keep AI aligned just like you would a team member, strategically focused in the right area, giving you the right output. And then, you know, get that kick-ass plan in place. Get on with it. You know, but don't get too distracted. Prioritize like heck. have some fun along the way right you know it's it's tough you know you're you know it's it's up but but leverage your strength speed entrepreneurialism right you don't have the baggage the uh the other other sort of somewhat non-religious business analogy that was related to cisco was why was god able to build the world in seven days and people like what and the answer is because he had no infrastructure to upgrade.

49:38And it leads on to your second question, right? What's the challenge of big companies? It's the infrastructure. It's the conformational bias. It's the, you don't understand, we don't do it this way, right? And one of the things that motivated me to move to California from Britain was I just got really just got so uptight about that. well, hang on a minute, we've been doing this for decades, or you don't understand. And the great Richard Branson disrupting the business models, I just love that. And then all of a sudden, you could move to a place where the weather was better, there was this entrepreneurial spirit, and it helped even big companies get better.

50:18But the big lesson for big companies is, number one, hey, you can't slow down. You've got to embrace the amount of change. you've got to be consciously competent of the world you know the other great line that I love is deal with the way the world is not the way you want it to be right that's your foundation you're hopefully going to change the world right you're going to make the world better but your foundation better be grounded in reality and then you can get going right and so I think it's a fantastic time of life in the world for big companies, small companies, but boy, you better recognize, you know, look at the, you know, the global disruption that we're having.

51:06Look at the, you know, every day. And you touched on a point that I think that's been a big lesson for me. We human beings are hardwired for bad news, right? It dates back to how our brain developed for caveman days, right? We used to wake up, walk out of a cave and like, am I going to get killed by a saber-toothed tiger or a mammoth today? And I got to find some food while I'm doing that. So we are hardwired that way. So therefore, how do you reprogram? How do you update that software to make sure you're looking at the positive, you're leaning into developing and evolving and growing, and you're not letting, and we touched on it as we started, right?

51:49Beware the algorithms, right? The challenge with AI is a lot of those AI tools are written by the companies that know how to play the algorithmic game to keep you engaged, to keep you chasing those squirrels, to keep improving. And sometimes good enough is exactly that, good enough. You're not striving perfection. You're striving for minimal viable success, minimal viable product, minimal viable execution. Let's not over-engineer it. Let's get it done and keep going. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think also the really fascinating thing that I'm seeing is this interplay between tech and human. And almost, you know, what's the right solution?

52:33Because this isn't all about, oh, you're going to get rid of people and, you know, actually is going to create a whole bunch of other skills that are needed and opportunities. But, you know, it doesn't mean to say that humans are kind of, you know, not required anymore. but it's going to be the interplay. Humans are human. Where's a human relationship valued? Where does it, you know, add something to the customer, the client? Where actually can you use tech to streamline? You know, and it's going to be this hybrid, I think, in most sectors, in particular the service industry, which is very people-related relationship-based.

53:09And we're seeing some really, I think, positive dynamics that need that relationship. You know, I wish it was simple of, oh, my God, let's just throw all the cancer research into chat GPT and we'll solve cancer in three hours. Well, a few people have been trying that now for a while and that isn't working. So how do we get that amazing engine to start working with MD Anderson in Houston, the best hospitals in India and the UK and around the world to solve cancer? I don't think anyone's going to be upset if AI solves cancer faster than the current trajectory. One of my favorite ones is look at health care and mental health care.

53:52And I know you've got to be a little careful with that. And to your point, this is where the professionals have got to put some guardrails in place so we use it correctly. And I think that's a big takeaway that I found out that people aren't really aware of. When AI was invented, Jeanette, it was when you didn't have to wear a seatbelt in a car. Just think about that for a minute, right? So we were driving around in these deadly weapons without a seatbelt. We finally figured out wearing a seatbelt would lower the death rate in transportation. That's the journey we're on with AI as well, right?

54:32It's an incredibly powerful tool. But let's be intentional. Let's make sure there's a human element to it. And we need to play a part in it. You know, just sort of putting your head in the sand is not the right answer either, right? You know, you've got to make sure we're guiding and providing impact, providing feedback. But, you know, that's the fun part of it. Look at the technology revolutions and the revolutions we've had, right? From the printing press to the Internet. You've got to guide it in the right areas to have the right most impact for society and for the human. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you started talking about Cisco being, you know, those early days of the internet.

55:11I mean, when I started in business, there was no internet. It was pre-internet. You know, there were no mobile phones. We were still listening on cassette tape. You know, I mean, for people now, they're like... I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not sure there's technology that you're referring to. Oh, my God. You know, when people went on holiday, they went and got a paper brochure from the travel agent, and the price in the brochure was the price you paid. That was it. I mean, it's all changed so much for the good. But like anything, like you say, you can use it for good or you can use it for a negative.

55:46And it's the same with social media, right? You do a lot of good with social media. It can also be very damaging. So I think it's an exciting time to be in business. It's an exciting time to be human. But I still believe in humans are human. And in fact, Chris, if you and I, we would never have met if we hadn't been introduced by the wonderful Tony Lovell. Right? Got to give Tony a shout out. The demand, the legend. Yep, force of nature. And I mentioned this when I had the great opportunity to be a best man at his wedding. One of Tony's superpowers is he is both competitive and content. And that is an amazing combination.

56:34I'm on the other hand competitive as hell and sometimes forget to be content along the journey. If you can combine those two and you know your neighbor his now, he is a super force of nature that gentleman and the impact he's had. He's kept a group of my friends together that we've known each other since we're 12. He would get in his car and drive to London and take someone to a party in Birmingham or whatever. and no, no, no. It's just honored and blessed to have someone like Tony Love in my life, incredible force of nature. Yeah, and he's become a great friend to us, even though ours is a significantly newer friendship, having only been a few years.

57:13But I'm going to add another, I'm going to add a kicking ker to your two curly kerbs, right? I'm going to add the kind. So Tony is incredibly kind as well as everything else, and Liz, of course, so we give him a nice little shout out. But, Chris, I just want to touch on, you know, because you've had a phenomenal career, but it hasn't been easy. Right. Not everything goes your way. And you were talking earlier about, you know, Trish and the cancer and how, you know, how that that would have shook you as a family, I'm sure. But, you know, actually really leaning into supporting Trish, taking a little bit of time out professionally, which then, of course, has ended up with this wonderful book.

57:54So even in a dark situation, there's light that can come through through any scenario. But Trish is now in is now in a much better place. Right, Chris? She is. Thank you for asking. Amazing. One, she's a fighter. She's an incredible lady. You know, and part of it is that mindset we've talked about, too. And I know we've all got our world stories of, oh, my God, the National Health Service or, you know, 15 hours in the ER here in America. it's pretty incredible when it works, you know, and it works a lot of the times that we don't see on the news. But no, thank you for asking. We're in a lot better place.

58:32And I think I know where you're going. But please, the question is what then? No, no. So no, I just I just think it's really, really important to acknowledge how important our partners are and our loved ones in our in our lives, you know, in our whether it's our business life or whatever, because often you know it was Trish that encouraged you to go to India and if you compare healthcare in India to healthcare in the US you know makes you a lot more appreciative right of what we have in in you know in developed countries but I think having that strong person with you on your journey which clearly Trish has been for you as I'm sure has led to you know you being able to be successful professionally as well as what she's achieved in her own right as you know in her life as well right you know i i feel incredibly fortunate having a partner as strong and as motivated and as diverse as she was right i'm like what you know it's uh you know i i used to come home when i was traveling all around the world and you know i had a stressful day and i'm like oh my god i gotta go to russia you know in two weeks time jeanette without hesitation she's like great i'll take the kids out of school, we're coming with you.

59:44I'm like, what? And hey, I was fortunate I had the financial way to be able to do that. But to the sobering topic of cancer, one of the best after dinner speakers I've ever seen is this guy called Eric Weimner, I believe, I'll break his last name. He is the first blind mountaineer to conquer Everest. And his whole after dinner speech, and he is the most brilliant speaker, by the way. But he's like, you know, if we're not careful, we're all kind of conditioned to this Hollywood lifestyle, this Hollywood, you know, story we kind of get marketed to. And especially if you're successful early on in your career, you're like, oh my God, it's up and to the right.

1:00:31All I've got to do is keep working, you know, put me in coach, give me the next promotion and life's good. Him and then the number two executive at Cisco, I got to go with justice, you know, share with me this concept that I use an awful lot about the randomness of life and how you have to deal with adversity. Life is about how you deal with adversity, you know, and I don't want to minimize diversity because it can be horrible and adversity, sorry, it can be horrible and challenging, but boy, you know, the way you mentally get ready for it, the plan you put in place. And I was fortunate, right, when we had this.

1:01:13This is the second time it's occurred to us. I wasn't even working for John Chambers. I sent John a text saying, hey, you got any advice? Because one of his best friends in business had dealt with it three times. And he's like, Chris, let's talk this afternoon. We'll put a plan together. And I hadn't worked for the guy for, you know, seven years. And we spent three hours on the phone debating it and helping me, if nothing else, Jeanette, get me in the right mental framework. to be there for Trish, for myself, for my kids. And boy, you know, you can compliment me of all these great leadership responsibilities I've had.

1:01:49I'll put that way ahead of anything with regard to the intensity and the responsibility involved of helping yourself, let alone your family through that. It's, yeah, you know, and I mentioned that horrendous. And what I've tried to do is, you know, you don't make a lot of money selling books, but I want to use it as a platform to get the message out. And I am, you know, donating portions of the book proceeds to help accelerate cancer research. But every 14 seconds in America, someone hears those words, you've got cancer. And what I try and promote is I think the good news is a lot of leaders default to kind of take your time or, you know, take as much time as you want, right?

1:02:34You know, those, The good news is those have become parts of our narrative. I come back to that EQ. You know, they don't just have a bad cult, right? You know, they didn't just, you know, break a leg. You know, their world has been turned upside down for either themselves or their partners. Really lean into how you could support them, how you could be there for them. And with the right level of support, you can get a better result than without it. So, yeah, I'd encourage people to, you know, have their radar up appropriately. And, you know, and I think, sorry, I don't mean too much on this. It's a very personal topic.

1:03:12But, you know, I hate to say it, but everyone's had like a grandma or a mother-in-law. When it gets really close to your partner of 30 plus years, one of your kids, God bless it. It's I don't know why, but it has a whole new dimension that I think takes a whole new level of intensity and support to get through it. And I'll leave you on this one. I don't have my desk at the moment, but one of my favorite Winston Churchill quotes. When you're going through hell, keep going.

1:03:48well there you are you see so you're giving us an amazing quote and i'm so delighted that you know things are kind of all you know positive moving in the right direction with trish and and you know it just shows the power doesn't it of love care having the right people in your corner being able to be humble enough to reach out ask for help all of those things and and kind of be on the journey but you know what what's come out of this as well isn't is a fantastic book that you know maybe you would never have written that if it hadn't been for this, you know, scenario. So, you know, let's send in, send in all the best wishes to Trish and your lovely family.

1:04:24And you've given us, you've given us a great quote. Is that your piece of advice, Chris, or have we got another great piece of advice that you've been, you've been given? Actually, you do a good job prepping your guests on this amazing show and platform. I think there's a couple of layers to how I'd answer that. Number one is I don't know about you, Jeanette. You mentioned cassettes and the era we grew up in, right? I don't think I heard the word mentor until my 30s probably. And now it's thrown around as much as collaboration, right? And so I think I wish someone had told me what a mentor was and how to use a mentor early on in my life because, boy, it's a game changer.

1:05:12I think that the piece of advice, I don't think any one person told me, but I just was around it as a common theme. And we've touched on it. It is sign up for constant learning and be conscious about where you get that learning from. And Jeanette, I'll pay you a huge compliment. Look at the content you and your little team have created. Right. Advice, perspective, lessons from leaders. You know, it's like quick, you know, tone down the cap. Maybe it was right. And I say that as a loving pet owner, right. You know, we have the most precious gift of, uh, in the world and it's time, how are we going to use it?

1:05:54Right. You know, and, and, and you touched on it. You got to appreciate the partner that you dealt with. My other thing that Trish did years ago, she bought me this incredibly beautiful watch, ridiculously expensive watch. However, when she gave it to me, she's like, I want this to be a reminder of how much time you're spending away from your family. See, a steel fist in a velvet glove. A iron fist in a velvet glove. I don't know, but it had an impact on me, no matter what fist or glove she was wearing at the time. Good old Trish, good old Trish. I love that double-edged sword. I'll see what you did there.

1:06:35Wonderful. So, Chris, if you could describe this year in one word, what would it be and why? Yeah, actually, it's funny. I'll be very honest and transparent in my response. I literally chat GPT my response because the two words that come to mind are craziness and opportunity. and so chat GPT combine that in serendipity which is not a word I use an awful lot but it is kind of an interesting combination of total chaos with opportunity which you know it kind of feels that way at the moment doesn't it oh I'll say so but hey listen I've never had anyone say oh I've chat GPT done I had two words and now I've got one I love it see look at you you know you are tech through and through, Mr.

1:07:27White. That is great. Serendipity it is then. I love that. Excellent. And Chris, we've got a wonderful playlist on Spotify. And we'd like to ask all our guests, what track, what's a favorite song you dance around the kitchen to, or a song that really has some meaning to you, or just something that you like right now. So what track are we going to add to our Spotify playlist Chris from you? I really think that is your hardest question of this entire engagement actually right it's uh it's um you know you know Tony right we are huge Genesis fans as an example right you know literally I left Trish her mother and father-in-law on vacation in France to fly back to Nebworth to watch Genesis play with Tony and a few of of my mates, right?

1:08:18You know, my son's a musician, right? You know, he loves the Beatles, you know, One Republic trains, you know, listening to San Diego Youth Symphony play. There's a guy called Pat Riley, who's a famous NBA coach, who coached literally Dennis Rodman and, you know, all these top athletes. And he came to a conference I was at one day, and I was just like, sitting on the can't you imagine my, you know, taking notes about how do you deal with Dennis Rodman and all these crazy people? And his advice was, we all need a song. And I'm like, seriously? And I was really pissed off, Ken, excuse my French, but, you know, I'm like, what?

1:09:00That's how you deal with it? But the more I think about it, I had a terrible conference, very flowery executive, chief global CEO. We had a QBR. This guy tore us apart, tore us to shreds. The energy in the room deflated. And I've got my iPhone. As the video cold shut down, everyone was just like, oh, my God. I'm like, no one's leaving the room. I pressed. And this is not my song, by the way. I'm getting there. Press the song. Shake it off. and my theme to my it's like if we leave this room dejected as we feel today guess what? 5 ,000 people are going to feel a similar way that is not our job as leaders we have got to be the filter okay, he was pissed off with the topic we had, that was then, this is now the song there's no other song that I can't leave you with, which is both emotional and motivating and it's by Tim McGraw and it's live like you were dying.

1:10:07The lyrics on that song are both motivational and heartbreaking. And it's all about when you get, when the doctor tells you that kind of news, what do you do? Do you go get on a bull called Fu Manchu? Do you go skydiving? And it's just got this beautiful sort of country melody baked into it about, you know, you go fishing with your dad, you appreciate your loved one. Don't just listen to the song, listen to the lyrics. They are so powerful. It's a beautiful song. Probably gives you a little bit of Texas theme. Now we're based in Dallas for the last couple of years, but Tim McGrew, I live like you're dying.

1:10:51Excellent. Excellent. We've not had that. So fabulous. Well done. Well done, Chris. And my final question to you is what does brave, bold, brilliant mean to you? Yeah. Yeah. and you know brave bold brilliant for me you know it's well i gotta answer it again sorry in a couple of ways i think for me at the moment and and for 35 amazing years it's my wife trish you know brave bold brilliant incredible then i take it to this conversation the life we all get to lead, right? There's Tom McAnoffy, who's a good friend of mine in Southern California, and he worked for Tony Robbins. I think I told you about him when we talked, right?

1:11:36He has a line in one of the sessions he does is what is the greatest story ever told? And people like Nelson Mandela, you know, The Last Supper, and, you know, he lets it emulate for a little bit. And it's like, it's the story you tell yourself every day about what you appreciate, how you're going to approach the day, how you're going to embrace life. And for me, brave, bold, and brilliant is it should be a North Star for all of us to embrace the amazing life, the health we have, the adversities we've got. And it's a huge compliment to you and the team, Jeanette, providing people this platform, this opportunity to amplify stories that are real, right?

1:12:23They're not talking consulting theory here. Obviously, a lot of our lives have been based on that, but they are the real world experiences. So, yeah, I think it just sums up life, right? It sums up a conscious approach you can take to life. You can choose to take the alternative, which I would not recommend, but be brave, be bold, and be as brilliant as you can be. And I think you'll surprise yourself. Brilliant is not IQ based. It's EQ based. What a fabulous way to end, Chris. Wow. Thank you so much. I've loved our conversation. Gosh, I could have gone on for another hour, I think. No, I'm back at you in a good way.

1:13:08I really enjoyed it. Very engaging. Yeah, no, I and it's and it's it's also somewhat therapeutic and good for me to reflect on the conversation. The reason I read the book and hopefully your audience will get something out of it. And please, you know, follow me on LinkedIn. Despite building the Internet, I believe in the human network. You know, now we're connected, Janet. Good luck. You're not getting out of my human network now. And I want to use sort of LinkedIn and the book as a way to help early on people in their careers. But also, you know, that loneliest job in the world, that CEO that is stressed out.

1:13:46and I thought I'd hired this great team and I've got this amazing opportunity. And I'll leave you with one other quick story because it was the most powerful consulting exercise I've ever done with any of my teams. And it's in the book. It's the year from now exercise. I don't know if you've come across it or used it. And it's basically, right, a year from now, Janet's on the unemployment line with a very tattered, bold, beautiful and brilliant, brave, bold and brilliant t-shirt. And someone looks at you and said, hang on a minute, Jeanette, you know, you were interviewing all those amazing leaders.

1:14:23You had your podcast, you had your book, you got your rewards for your podcast. What happened? And you go through the scenarios of what screwed it up. The flip side of that is, you know, a year from now, you get invited to Buckingham Palace or the Taj Mahal or your favorite or your husband go to Goer, invited by, you know, some amazing dignitary, and you're given this award for being even more successful. And then the exercise is what went right. And one, it's a healthy exercise to do for yourself. But my goodness, if you do that with your team, it is incredible what comes out. It's like, yeah, I know we talked about this, but really, there's this piece that we need to figure out or, you know, and I love that exercise.

1:15:12It takes a little bit of time, but yeah, a year from now exercise. What does success look like? What does failure look like? How do you put a plan in place to assure success or minimize the other scenario? Excellent. I love that, Chris. Masterclass in business strategy leadership right here, everyone. So make sure go and buy Chris's book, Non-Optional Collaboration. Check him out, connect, build relationships. There we are. I really hope you've enjoyed this episode of Brave Bold Brilliant. Remember, check out our new website, www.brave-bold-brilliant.com. You're going to find loads of resources on there that's going to help you with your leadership journey and with the businesses that you're trying to scale up and grow.

1:15:56So take care, everyone. And remember, there are no limits to your growth, but it is by being brave and bold that you're going to unlock your brilliant.

1:16:09Thank you.