Decoding the Growth Mindset with Business Maestro Emma Woods

14:59Emma Woods:was the family situation so um I grew up in Yorkshire in York um but my parents were super young when they had me I think my mum was 21 my dad was 20 I mean and they they divorced fairly early on and there was this incredible sort of 70s time and as kids we were kind of being shipped from one family to another um and that was tough actually um because I was the oldest and you know when you've got you know there's a lot in a messy situation like this I'm sure lots of oldest children have had this you end up playing not really the role of a child but more of a parent I've got to look after my little ones and and it's definitely given me lots of drive you know a sort of sense of I've got to provide and I've got to be you know I've got to be on my a-game because I'm this slightly messy situation but it's sort of it's something that I'm conscious really conscious of and I've in my for my own children and and also one of the things I had my very very sadly I lost my brother during COVID and so I had a lot of grief therapy for that because we were very close and I realized that there was a little bit of me that was sort of trying to be a superwoman and sort of solve every problem which came right back from childhood and you know that was a not realistic and be a bit stressful both for other people but also for myself so I've had to really a part of getting over his death has been actually saying okay how do I process that but it did give me lots of drive it gave me my drive it gave me the determination to be successful which you know I'm forever grateful for.

16:43Jeannette:Yeah I mean it's interesting because I think we all carry things from our childhood, you know, regardless of our starting life. And obviously you had some pretty tough things to deal with there, as you were describing. And you do carry it with you for years. And it's often, I think, not until you've got to a little bit later stage in life. And for you, obviously, there was, you know, the grief for losing your brother that was almost like, I suppose, a catalyst to say, could probably do with a bit of help here, actually. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And I know myself, you know, in the last kind of year or so, I've had some therapy and I found it so helpful.

17:21Jeannette:But it's unpicked some stuff that I kind of sort of knew was there. And you're right, you know, things that have happened in the past that can drive you forward, which is great. But like anything, if it's an overused strength, it can become a problem as well, can't it? because then you know that that constant need to prove something or to protect or to you know to be the mother in a situation whatever it might be and i think that self-awareness a lot of people

17:49Emma Woods:sometimes they never really unpick some of this stuff yeah um and and do you feel that as a result

17:58Jeannette:of going through that that you've come out a better person a stronger person through that whole journey?

18:03Emma Woods:No absolutely, I mean I'm a big believer that you always get something from hard experiences, I wasn't expecting to get something from the death of my brother apart from being just sad, but I definitely feel that I did just because I took this, you know we were very close, and I took this grief, I had a very good therapist, a grief therapist took it very seriously, I suppose I'm just I'm more content now but also I appreciate life so much more and so I think I know that this is something that's important to you but I start each day by getting up and writing down three things that I feel grateful for you know the science says will help frame the way that you look at the world but it really helps me yeah so yeah I do feel like

18:56Jeannette:that yeah I think it's a great piece of advice as well you know to if you can spend some time working on you whatever that is for for more all individual aren't we there's no one like you there's no one like me we're all we're all um unique but I think I think gratitude and just some of these small things doesn't have to take a lot of time but it's hard to be pissed off and grateful at the same time it's pretty well it's impossible isn't it it's hard to be you know kind of angry and grateful you know so so it is a great is a leveler isn't it just to say hey come on jesus christ got a lot to lots of people happy for you you know and it does kind of kick you kick you back into touch sometimes doesn't it it definitely does yeah what what else would you what else has helped you cope but not just in in that situation but just in general really you know a lot of stress running big businesses transitioning at life you know what what are the things that

19:50Emma Woods:kind of your go-to so my go-to I mean I think well um my I've got an amazing husband we've been married for a very long time who has to he gets his ear bent quite a lot of times um but he's he's a you know he doesn't let me off the hook either um so he's obviously part of my support system but I have an incredibly strong family um but the other thing is and one of the reasons I was looking to be on your podcast because I think with where is that I think having a community of female business friends.

20:22Emma Woods:Sometimes people call them brains trust, don't they? But I've got a group of people that I really admire. I hope I'm there for them, but they're also there for me. I enjoy doing stuff together. I found this whole community piece really lifting, actually. and I guess it's more important when you're a non-exec rather than an exec because you don't necessarily have all those team events so some of the team so some of the energy that you would have got from kind of going out with your executive team you get you get from you know talking to other female founders talking to you yeah talking to you know some of the work we do on balance the board you know so I guess there's so many amazing brilliant women out there um who are making an extraordinary contribution and lots of them are my age yeah and lots of them you know were have started now you know I'm I was out last night with two women um two friends I know from university so we're in our 50s and both of them have just published books how fantastic is that I mean they're not just good books they're really good books yeah so now they've got this sort of new career ahead of them as as authors I was like wow you know if I look at you and your podcast you know when did you start that was only a couple of years ago five years ago now

21:40Jeannette:years ago, look at it, it's just extraordinary.

21:43Emma Woods:And I think about Kate Prince, the female founder I work with, she started her business, it's now one of the fastest growing UK businesses. She did that seven or eight years ago, it's fantastic. So I get loads of energy from that community and supporting that community.

21:58Jeannette:And I think you make an important point about age actually, because one, people are living longer, we can have multiple careers and you're a great example of that. You had your early years studying then the you know Unilever 12 years I think it was 17 sorry apology and 17 at Unilever a long time and then you've had you know the sort of the 15 years in leisure CEO Wagamama and all the great and now you're in the the stage of plural chair Neds etc so it just shows that we we're always we have the ability to reinvent ourselves and and to sort of take the learnings and the experience that we've had and bring it into a fresh new place and actually age our perception of age and our approach to aging I think you know it's so important that we reframe it you know and I think especially for women because you get you can get a lot of kind of nasty comments and you know there's a lot of pressure isn't there and how you how you look and oh a few wrinkles there or you know menopause or whatever it might be and I think it's so important to remind ourselves as women together you know a bit of sisterhood here you can achieve anything you want at any age really aren't you yeah i thought yeah i definitely think that's true yeah and there are opportunities everywhere yeah aren't there yeah how do you how do you say no to stuff ever because i'm really bad at that i'm rubbish you know i actually made a resolution

23:24Emma Woods:i wrote myself a linkedin post saying i've said no to um stuff all this year i wrote it in january as a sort of right if I can do this and I could post it at the end of the year I'm absolutely rubbish I'm not posting it no I mean there was a great article in the FT which had inspired me to say no I'm just because I love solving problems and it goes back to that sort of need to be a superwoman which kind of came from the my childhood it's like oh yeah well and I mean I'm much more conscious of it I'm much more conscious of the fact I should say no um but yeah not quite correct to yeah no no because the other thing is one of my great friends says you what you've got to understand is saying no to something is actually saying yes to something else and you don't and in the case of jobs you don't yet know necessarily what that is but in the case of you know going out to an event where you're going to stay up late and have very rich food and perhaps drink alcohol and then feel a bit kind of not on top form the next day you know you're saying no you'll be saying no to kind of getting up and doing exercise so she has this really good expression saying no to something is saying yes to something else yeah and that's that is a great way again

24:35Jeannette:reframing isn't it really and like looking at things in a different way so that's a that's a

24:38Emma Woods:really good you can come back to us with tips on that you can do some coaching but yeah it is and

24:44Jeannette:i i mean i think if you're a people pleaser um which i'm definitely being guilty of being a bit of people pleaser you feel that saying no you're letting someone down so you say yes to everything But then in reality, you kind of then often I find I overstretch myself. I can't do everything to the level that I would like to. Or I just get so stressed out trying to do that that then, you know, you kind of suffer yourself. So less is more, definitely. But I, yeah, I struggle as well with saying we're saying no. But I think I think it's how you say no, isn't it? If you can say no in an elegant way, well, you know, thanks ever so much for the invitation.

25:18Jeannette:I'm really maxed out right now but let me look at it in a few months time or that you know what I'd love to but I just don't think there's a great match there you know I say no to clients to potential clients that want me to work with them which you know I never thought I would be in that position not because they're not nice people but just because I think maybe I'm not quite the right fit for them or whatever it might be or or they're not quite my vibe whereas I would

25:44Emma Woods:never have done that no no no yeah you know in the past I would have taken any bit of business yeah I mean when you're non-exec you have to make some you have to be quite choiceful because you've only got certain slots and somebody said to me as I was going to my non-exec career they said you've got to work out your questions I said what do you mean he said well these are my questions and in fact they've become my think it's like do I believe in the the product of the business do I like the people um do I think I could add some value and will I learn something? You know, there were versions of his questions, but actually they've become mine.

26:17Emma Woods:It's actually quite a good lens to apply. And, you know, the one about can I really add some value? And part of that is, are they open to me adding value? Yes. You might be able to add value, but as a non-exec, you deliver through others. You don't deliver yourself. So you've got to work with people who want a chair or want to have a conversation about growth with a non-exec. So, yeah, but it's, yes, that's my sort of version of your sort of, sometimes I say no, I'm now being a bit more choiceful. And you do get some really great opportunities. I got this amazing opportunity yesterday, brand I absolutely adore, or business I adore, from when I was a child.

27:05Emma Woods:But I just, I couldn't practically commit to the time that would be required. This business was in the north of England. I love the north of England. But I mean, I live in the southeast. I'm married to an Irishman. So he spends quite a lot of time in Ireland. I just couldn't practically commit to the time that would be required in the north. And so I just have to say no, because I'm not going to be able to do this on Zoom.

27:27Jeannette:No, no, no, exactly. And, you know, when you look back through your career, Has there been times where you've wanted to create an impact or a change or something and you've not been able to achieve what you wanted?

27:39Emma Woods:Oh, yeah, so many. Too many to name, probably. I mean, I think the bit when the really big transition for me was I was as a marketeer in Unilever. Actually, we were the rock stars. Unilever was a marketing business. And it was actually pretty easy. if you had the consumer evidence and you'd done their testing and you had this great idea people generally would go fantastic um and then i moved into um sort of businesses you were involved in in terms of people businesses leisure business i was working in pizza express at the time um and you have to deliver through people and and and it was quite a challenge as i only realized you have to inspire other people to do this stuff and like i i one of the things i'm most proud of i don't know whether people know this on your podcast is this product called the Legera Pizza which is this delicious pizza but it's a pizza ring with salad in the middle so it's a much lower calorie and it but it's it's fantastic okay that is a pain in the ass for people for the chefs to make because they have to roll out half a dough and then they have to cut out a bit in the middle and they have to cut it out it's very easy for it to burn really easy it's a complete pain I really didn't want to have to do it and so just that whole exercise of going you no, no, this is really what you should do.

28:56Emma Woods:It's going to bring in new customers. I really think this is the right thing. That was just a big learning experience when you went from essentially a product, FMCG business to a people business.

29:10Jeannette:Yeah, yeah. So what were the things that helped you get that over the line then, do you think?

29:15Emma Woods:Well, part of it is enthusiasm. And part of it is, well, it's about learning to inspire. What you do is you do work with people, you do trials, you go, come on, let's try this.

29:27Jeannette:Yes, yeah, let's give it a go.

29:29Emma Woods:Should we try it? Should we see if it excites people? Do you like it? And then you build advocacy and I always worked very closely in all the businesses I was with, with the kind of people on the front line. They're the real superstars of any leisure or hospitality business, people that are there on Friday night, Saturday night, you know, at the front of a hotel.

29:50Jeannette:Yeah, absolutely. No, you're right. And it's very easy, I think, as a leader of business to become removed from the front line. I mean, you know, in a travel business, January is the peak booking time. It still is even to this day in the UK, you know, January, February. You know, the call centres are rammed. You know, you've got shifts. I mean, it's because you just can't get enough people. I mean, it's changing, obviously, because a lot more digital and online booking. But for a business like, say, Saga, which I was the CEO of the travel division, you know, people still want to ring up to book their homes.

30:21Jeannette:and I used to be on the phones in the trenches. I'd be going around with the tea trolley, you know, not because to say, oh, you know, tokenism always isn't genetic, but because that's where I could learn the most. I could see where the pressure points were, could listen in to calls with customers and, you know, understand what they worried about. Okay, you're travelling and you've got some pre-existing health conditions, you're an older client, you know, all these things. And you just cannot touch and feel that if you're just in the boardroom.

30:48Emma Woods:No, you absolutely aren't. No, no, no.

30:50Jeannette:Yeah, it's so important. And when you were in those roles, say Pizza Express or Wagamama's, you know, these are consumer led businesses that have a lot of pressure in terms of the, you know, the economy, people's disposable income. You know, you went through COVID when you were CEO of Wagamama. That's tough. That's tough, isn't it? When, you know, the high streets down or people haven't got enough money to spend on going out. What were some of the more the difficult challenges that you faced sort of from a macroeconomic point of view? You can't control all of that. But, you know, how do you run a business like that when you're going through a real crisis like something like COVID?

31:34Jeannette:Or it could be something else, you know, but similar.

31:38Emma Woods:So when Pizza Express, I was there for the 2008 crash and I was the CMO and we did the wrong thing and really learned from that and basically we discounted. So I was the person or was the part of the team that introduced the sort of first two for one offer and it was very exciting. People have never had a two for one offer from a brand like Pizza Express because it's such a quality brand. So in fact it was amazing. We had queues around the block. We ran out of Coke. We were owned by a private equity firm at the time. They were so excited. Oh, my God, we've got to do more of that. And we began kind of collecting data.

32:19Emma Woods:And I think that sort of my lesson from it is whatever you do in these situations, you have to take a slightly longer term view. Because, you know, actually, if you discount the brand, as we did over a period of time for two or three years, pretty consistently you devalue it. so the real challenge with all of these brands is to keep them special to keep them magic to keep the culture i mean these businesses are cultural to keep the culture special to keep innovating keep innovating the food and then the interesting thing about hospitality is a there are other opportunities i mean delivery became an opportunity but but there are opportunities in terms of international some markets as you will know because you travel around the world are doing incredibly well they don't have the same consumer tailwinds you know those are asian markets those of the Middle East and so lots of you know the business I'm involved in at the moment Tortilla you know we have a really successful franchising operation in the Middle East and some of the the probably our service schools there are better than they are here I mean they're just they are fabulously run units and so it's sort of thinking about sort of how you think about the kind of macro over a slightly longer time but I mean it is really tough at the moment and we're about to have another I don't know when this recording will go out but we're about to have another budget which I imagine again will lay down more cost on but ultimately people will want to go to businesses or brought out for experiences that are amazing have amazing food and amazing service and so that's the bit you've got to work on continuing to deliver yeah and I think also

33:58Jeannette:So values, you know, values are really important in business, aren't they? They're both important in terms of your own leadership style and what's important to you. They're important in terms of the culture you create and the environment for your teams. But they're, I think, increasingly becoming more important for the consumer who has a choice where they spend their money, right? Which organizations or to attract talent into a business. And more and more, in particular, Gen Zs are sort of saying, well, hang on, do I want to work for this organization? and what's your track record when it comes to human rights?

34:29Jeannette:Where are you on DE &I? So that kind of values piece, I think, is really important as well, Emma. And what are you seeing in that space that's sort of changed maybe or maybe not changed and been consistent from all the years that you've been in business, would you say?

34:48Emma Woods:Well, I'm encouraged that all the Trump rhetoric

34:54Emma Woods:it hasn't sort of eradicated the focus great businesses, especially people businesses, have on inclusion. It's perhaps changed the language, the language has become less D, E and I, and more about belonging and inclusion. But I'm really encouraged to see great businesses still focusing on that. And they're focusing on that because it actually makes business sense. You know, stable teams consistently deliver high results. How do you get a stable team you get a stable team if you really treat them very well so I'm quite encouraged by that

35:29Emma Woods:and I just think that one of the the the perhaps the the opportunity there's an opportunity through social media to communicate to consumers more clearly but the but they sniff it when you're authentic. So if you say look I've got fantastic people schools I'm a great place to work and then you're not and we've seen that with some of the very big organizations that you know that the consumer will then respond to that so so that that's I think that's going to be good news ultimately for for organizations but it's something they've got to be aware of and respond to.

36:07Jeannette:Yeah yeah and similar with sustainability and you know some of the kind of you know greenwashing that can go on yeah like you know people are much more aware much more conscious consumers probably than than ever before in a way yeah especially younger younger generations too yes so so as you as you sort of you know move into this phase i want to talk about about um balance the board a little bit and the new exciting podcast well i'm not sure we call it podcasting what should we call it then emma uh yeah um platform yeah it's it they're shorts yes so they're shots it's a shot cast they're shorts there's a 15 minutes tops so what's coming next year so this is going to be an initiative for 2026 from balance the board from balance the board um and you're in the process now of interviewing you know kind of a number of people but what what's what's going to happen next year with with this initiative yeah so i mean i think i'll um

37:04Emma Woods:one of the we want to inspire more senior women in business and we know that confidence is an issue that women in particular, like men and women but women in particular suffer from so what we want to do is offer some practical advice by talking to some incredible women like yourself to other women to say here are confidence is an issue, here are some tips

37:30Jeannette:for you and we're going to be doing

37:32Emma Woods:that in 2026 but I don't think there's a need for any more long-form podcasts there's some great ones including this one out there there I think there is a need for sort of more sort of shot like learning yeah and that's how I see it so we're going to try and do that through next year

37:49Jeannette:well I have no doubt you're not you it's going to happen it's it's already already in production so this is this is exciting and and balance the board has changed um you know as an organization we've got to give a big shout out to Holly Addison, who is going to come on the podcast. She's been ducking me for a couple of years, but I will get her on Brave Paul. Brilliant, absolutely. But, you know, Balance the Board is a not-for-profit. It's an organisation to support not only women, started with a focus on gender, but now the agenda is now broader, isn't it? Much broader now. And actually, you know, social mobility as well.

38:23Jeannette:You know, if you think about, well, certainly I grew up in a very working-class family, very happy family, but still, you know, I was the only one to go to university, et cetera. So I think social mobility is another aspect that kind of we've not really spent a lot of time on, but is important as well, isn't it? But for you, how do you see the world of business has changed from when kind of we're a similar age, you know, we started out in our career and getting your first board position, all the rest of it, to sort of how it is today? You know, what's improved, do you think?

38:52Emma Woods:Well, I was on a panel about this last week. So what I talked about was if I think about these three stages of my career, I have benefited from active D, E and I or change agenda in that the chairman at the time of Unilever decided that they needed to have more senior women coming through. And they said, come on, we need a leadership program. They put me on it. I wouldn't have got the opportunities I got if they hadn't decided at that point because women were kind of getting to a certain point and then not rising. I've benefited from it in the first third. In the second third, obviously, leading people businesses, you have to lead it.

39:30Emma Woods:I mean, it's a kind of, you know, Wagamama's whole kind of magic came from his people, so he had to, it was sort of an imperative. And then this bit as a non-exec, and this is why we're doing some of the work on balance the board, I think I'm trying to sort of cheerlead from the sidelines. And on the boards I'm on, sort of support them with the great work they're doing, and some of them are doing amazing work particularly on ethnicity but I think it's beholden on the in a way people like you and me who benefited from some of this stuff that happened in the late 90s early 2000s it's beholden on us to give back it's time to give back and that's I suppose why we're doing what we're doing and you're doing what you're doing and it's not done it's really not done it's really and yeah I'm I'm just a really passionate believer in that businesses grow when people grow.

40:18Jeannette:Yeah, and it's proven, isn't it? I mean, it does drive me absolutely crackers that we still need to be making the commercial case because the numbers are there. You know, diverse boards, diverse teams achieve better financial results. You know, so if you didn't have, if you weren't coming at it from a point of view, this is good for society, it's the right thing to do, and actually it makes for a far more enjoyable work environment to have that diversity. actually even if you just do it for the P &L then do it you know but we somehow we still are having to make the point.

40:49Emma Woods:Actually at some level at the very senior role so the CEOs take the CEOs in the FTSE 100 there are not many more women than there were ten years ago in fact I mean there were a few and then they kind of it's gone back and if you look at the number of female chairs you know I think it's about 15 % in the FTSE 350 is still tiny and so some of these really key positions, if I take gender, haven't changed. We've got lots more women coming through the ranks, but we haven't got them taking the key leadership roles. It's like, why? What can we do? And this is why I think confidence is so important. And then if I flip that into another world I'm quite involved in, in terms of private equity or venture capital, it's even worse.

41:27Emma Woods:You know, there are all these brilliant female founders,

41:32Emma Woods:you know, very few female chairs in private equity. Because actually, and why is that? Well, people, private equity is riskier, you know, they want chairs that probably have done it before, you know, have achieved some sort of return for the business or the private equity team, you know, so you get yourself into this cycle of using the same sort of people and there aren't many women. So it's like, how do we have a conversation that kind of helps some very successful women who aren't in that field who would be very good at that? How do we have a conversation there. So I think there are a few debates still that are quite pokey that would be worth us sort of exploring a bit further.

42:12Emma Woods:But fundamentally we need lots of great women coming through and developing their confidence.

42:18Jeannette:Yeah, and we need great male advocates as well, don't we? Yeah, I mean I wouldn't be here

42:22Emma Woods:without the support of some amazing men, starting with the chairman of Unilever but, you know, brilliant, brilliant male leaders.

42:29Jeannette:Yeah, I'm exactly the same and in fact one of my old bosses is Richard Prosser. You know, he's still, he's become a friend, but a confidant. He's amazing. And a mentor. I met Richard. We catch up every couple of months or something.

42:44Emma Woods:You know, he's been so giving

42:46Jeannette:and supportive of me, not just in terms of the opportunity he gave me, you know, in TUI. You know, he asked me to go to Russia and he bought three businesses in Russia and Ukraine. I'd never done any M &A. I didn't have a corporate finance, but I certainly didn't speak Russian. you know but he saw something in me that that catapulted me way out of my comfort zone you know to and then that really set me on the path to my first MD role and CEO etc so you know there are that like you there are certain pivotal people pivotal people in your life aren't they some male advocates are so important as well as female advocates but well you know I mean one of the things that I think is absolutely shocking as well is when it comes to say VC so not not private equity but VC funding for female founders I think it's one in five small businesses are female founders so 20 % and yet there's only I think two to three percent of VC capital goes to female founders it is shocking so what's going on is this disconnect all the time yeah yeah and there's some

43:46Emma Woods:amazing organizations now starting to talk about that so Debbie Wiesco leads this sort of invest in female task force and also women are coming together it's going back to this community point So there are lots of female founders' networks, but it is really interesting. And there aren't very many women in private equity. There are not many in VCs. So, I mean, it's an ecosystem that needs some support. I think most businesses I talk to, most private equity businesses want to change it. It's just there isn't the same imperative that there was. When the government said we want to have 40, you know, we need to have 40 % or not need, We really strongly encouraged the FTSE businesses to have 40 % of women on boards.

44:29Emma Woods:You know, suddenly there were lots of women on boards. And then the Parker Review said we want to have one ethnic leader on boards. You know, it's great news. I think most FTSE 100 businesses have an ethnic leader on the board. And that happened in sort of four years after the Parker Review. Parker Review was 2016, 2017. They made that progress because the government encouraged people to do that. And it's regulated. whereas you take a private environment as much there isn't the same obligations no no and and

44:56Jeannette:sometimes it does need to be led from the top doesn't it really that mandate um you know i mean i see in organizations like if you take easy jet as an example very very few female pilots you know historically i mean practically not you know a handful easy jet went out and at the time johan lundgren was was a group ceo um who i knew very well from my two days if i just saw him saw him a couple of days ago but you know when he was ceo he personally took it as this was important it was not a cause you know it was right thing to do for the business to have more female pilots and to create career choices and easyjet were going into schools they were having conversations with young girls saying hey this could be a career for you because you might not have ever thought of that or engineering or you know captain of of cruise ships etc so but it nearly always those big pivotal shifts normally have to have someone that's sponsoring it at the top don't they as well as kind of you know making sure you've got the right environment for for action to happen yeah no definitely um and and what when you look back emma what are you what's been the toughest time in your career would you say what's been the hardest time for you

46:10Emma Woods:um i mean the hardest time of my life definitely was around the time of the end well a combination of covid and then losing my brother all at the same time and that was pretty it was a kind of strange time in hospitality you opened closed opened closed i mean so there was lots of sort of challenges um but also that then just being floored by this thing that you didn't want to happen that did happen. I don't know that there has been a, you know, but apart from that there's always challenges. Every year there's different challenges and it's every year there's things that really excite you. I mean I've been, I love working, I absolutely love it.

46:52Emma Woods:I love the career I've had and I'm really excited about the career I'm going to have. I love the businesses I'm involved in. I love growth. I'm so, I mean, I don't, I wouldn't say, oh my gosh, this time. No. And interestingly, when I think I mentioned to you, I was in Mexico with Unilever. And 20 years afterwards, so a couple of weeks ago, we went back to Mexico, my husband and I. We went to where we'd lived and we were driving around. And I was thinking, I am so proud of the younger version of myself living here. So I think it was quite a tough time. But actually, at the time when I was 35, 36, I was like, oh, this is a bit like you in Russia.

47:29Emma Woods:I was like, this is really exciting. But there's no way I could have coped with some of the challenges, I think, now. Maybe you get a bit more conservative as you get older. Yeah, maybe it's okay.

47:42Jeannette:It's sort of ignorance is bliss in a way. I think it's sort of a sense of naivety sometimes, even in your 30s. You know, that was definitely the case I found. But how nice is that to look back and say, oh, God, I'm really proud of my younger self.

47:53Emma Woods:I was really proud of my younger self, yeah. But also, I love Mexico now because I love it, not because I was a tourist then. and there were some great places to go as a tourist, but because it's an extraordinary culture full of amazing people. And in some ways, they taught me about leadership. You know, I mean, I can remember a very funny situation in Mexico. I used to get in early, and everyone would come in, kind of, I don't know, I'd get in at 8, and people would wander in at 9.30, and they'd have a coffee, and then they'd have another coffee, and it seemed to take forever again. And then I'd have lunch, and they'd be on my desk, and I was working through it, and they'd go for this lunch, and I was like, do they ever do any work?

48:28Emma Woods:And actually I realised that the cultural codes in that organisation were, it's important to have coffee with everyone and chat to them about how they're day and what we're going to do. And then it's really important to go for lunch. And then, but as soon as you understand the codes and you support the culture, you can then go, by the way, we need to get this stuff done. And people would often work very, very late at night because that was the way it worked at the time. It might be different now. But I just, I mean, I was sitting there with my sandwich at my desk whilst everyone else was going off for lunch.

48:58Jeannette:I had a similar experience in Barcelona, actually, running the businesses, doing a turnaround for two of it. And it was, again, you know, Hispanic culture, you know, long siestas and coming in at 10 and I'd have been there for hours, you know, and that was me. Yeah. But they do work late.

49:17Emma Woods:They do work incredibly late. And so, I mean, I won't have it, they work really late.

49:21Jeannette:It's just a different, just a different. Or was it,

49:22Emma Woods:or did then.

49:23Jeannette:Different time frame. Yeah, exactly. And so what are you most proud of then, Emma, when you look back, do you think? Oh, I don't know if I can answer that.

49:33Emma Woods:I mean, I'm, the things, I suppose, running Wagmama was probably a career highlight, but this will be innovation. It's sort of, you know, it's creating products that have made people feel better, have better experiences, happier, you know, a legit you know flora practice a long time ago which is a very efficacious cholesterol lowering spread that was kind of one of my first innovations I mean I worked on the flora marathon I mean there's so many experiences I don't want to pin one down and go it was that one um and I think the big thing is sort of now and the thing that I want to leave as a legacy is inspiring people to to be better leaders themselves I mean that's definitely when people say I heard you talk and I got a coach or I heard you talk and you know it really unlocks something for me I mean that that I'm sure you get that a lot as well it's like god that's like

50:32Jeannette:gold dust yeah it's really satisfying to your point going you know it's what you were saying earlier it's it's a time to kind of give back absolutely absolutely I'm just joining the board

50:42Emma Woods:as a trustee of breast cancer now I'm just so excited about that I mean it's a female charity but it's so important given breast cancer rates are on the rise especially amongst young people lots of us will be affected by it I can't wait yeah I really can't wait I'm so excited so much to do there yeah so so coming back to the topic that we were talking about earlier is around

51:07Jeannette:confidence yeah how has your confidence changed would you say from sort of Emma Young starting now in your professional life to where you are now?

51:17Emma Woods:Oh, well, there was quite a bit more of, look at me, I'm here, I'm going to make a lot of noise than there is now, I hope.

51:30Emma Woods:But actually, do you know what? Going back to this thing about Mexico, I quite like the younger version of myself as well. She was pretty amazing. You know, she came from a, she was a comprehensive kid. She decided she was going to get to Oxford. she you know had this real sense of wanting to change the world i quite like that person

51:47Jeannette:yeah yeah and you're still you're still you still got that in you though having that wanting to make a difference and what have you yeah what are some of the what are some of the things that have helped you then with your confidence and build your confidence over time what are some of the advice that you'd give to other other women building their careers and wanting to help them step up and put themselves out to the world what are some of the things that have worked for you that you think can be good for people.

52:10Emma Woods:Well I think coaching is very helpful. If you don't work in an organisation that supports that, find a way of doing that. And the great thing about podcasts and all this stuff that's available now online is to some extent you can access that yourself. But I really think that that's quite important. Coaching, male allyship, you know, it sounds like you've got some incredible male mentors. I think having people ahead of you that can go, oh, I want to be them. I think that's quite important. So I've always had role models in my life. You know, started with my aunt, who is an amazing, inspirational headmistress.

52:52Emma Woods:But, you know, all the way through, you know, so this lady I referred to, Penny Hughes, was my first female chair. You know, I was looking at her going, oh, she's amazing. Quite like to look like her so I think sort of find some people that can inspire you as well as having the sort of the coaching and you talked about self-awareness get self-aware work out strengths and weaknesses but I think one of the questions you want to ask is what's the best piece of advice you've ever had and that was from a coach and he said revel in your greatness I think yeah come back to that and everybody's different.

53:28Jeannette:We are. And, you know, that is around being proud, isn't it? Being proud of what you've achieved and the impact you've had and the improvement you've had for those people around you to improve people's lives as well.

53:40Emma Woods:Yeah, or just knowing that, you know... Pretty damn good. Yeah. Well, this is what I bring and I'm okay with that. Yes. No, I'm not going to try and be... You know, actually, it's better to understand what your spikes are.

53:53Jeannette:Yeah.

53:53Emma Woods:And lean into those. I mean, clearly you've got to manage your weaknesses, but what are your spikes? What do you spike in? Revel in your greatness.

54:01Jeannette:Yeah, revel in your greatness.

54:03Emma Woods:Good coaching advice.

54:04Jeannette:Very good advice.

54:06Emma Woods:I'm going to nick that. Yeah.

54:08Jeannette:So, you know, if you were to describe this year, Emma, you've got a lot going on. I mean, you've got stuff that you're going to be taking on. You're already pushing ahead with all the stuff that you're doing with Balance of Boredom with Holly and what have you. But if you could describe this year in a word, what would it be and why?

54:28Emma Woods:Well, it's my 30th wedding anniversary, so we've spent quite a lot of time congratulating ourselves that we got that far. So it's been quite an amazing year, really, to sort of go, wow. Because I think partnership is really, or certainly for me, my partner has been really important in my life. So probably the word this year would be family because we've been more focused on the family. We've got two children who are working, we've got two children at university. We're kind of going through a sort of transition in that we're becoming empty nesters and we've been together for 30 years. So there's been quite a lot of sort of kind of working all of that out.

55:04Emma Woods:So probably family.

55:05Jeannette:Yeah. And what's the next phase look like for you as a team and as a family, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay, family. And we have a playlist on Spotify, our guest favourite tracks. What were we going to add to the playlist from you?

55:22Emma Woods:Well, I was checking what you had. I think it'd be Katrina and the Waves, Walking on Sunshine.

55:26Jeannette:Oh, you see, that's one of the ultimate feel-good tracks, isn't it? I love it. I love it. Great. What a fan one to add. Wonderful. So last question.

55:35Emma Woods:Yeah.

55:35Jeannette:What does Brave Bold Brilliant mean to you, Emma?

55:37Emma Woods:Well, I'm working a lot with female founders. and actually for me it embodies what great female founders are doing in the UK at the moment they're almost all brave because they're taking on some of the challenges that you've talked about they are brilliant like you know the um yeah and they're definitely bold so yeah I'd be female I've got it in the wrong order female founders some of the female founders in the UK and the

56:00Jeannette:community that are female founders wonderful well listen it's been such a great conversation

56:04Emma Woods:thank you so much no it's been great to talk to you and thank you for being such an inspiring tailblazer

56:13Jeannette:thank you so much for tuning in to Brave Bold Brilliant what an inspiring conversation with Emma Woods wow a powerhouse of a woman who has led and grown brands led teams through challenges and championed diversity and inclusion you know and what stuck out for me was that her journey reminds us that leadership isn't just about strategy or titles it's about people, culture and lifting others as you climb You know, so from early years at Unilever to Wagamama, you know, and her board roles today, Emma demonstrates that resilience, creativity and authenticity in every step is what counts. So if you found today's episode useful, please share it with a colleague, with a friend, you know, so we can help more people.

57:00Jeannette:And of course, we would love it if you would leave us a nice review. And most importantly, you know, let's stay connected. So if you subscribe to Brave Bold Brilliant, it means that you'll be alerted every time we go live with an episode. So we're building a fabulous community we're so proud of. And remember, it is by being brave and bold that you're going to unlock your brilliance.