How to Scale a Business Like a CEO | Leadership Lessons from Costa Coffee, Ole & Steen & Arcturus CEO Jason Cotta

0:02Jason Cotta:You're Brave Bold Brilliant. My theory is curious, courageous and kind that I have in my head when I'm sort of, how am I approaching this? Because I think that'll get you an awful long way.

0:16So, welcome to Brave Bold Brilliant, Jason. Nice to have you.

0:20Jason Cotta:Thank you very much. Very, very happy to be here. Well, eventually we got our diaries organised. We did. We did. It took a little while, but we got there. All good things come to those who wait. Indeed, that is so true. Now, you have had an illustrious career, currently CEO of Arctaurus Group, and you're going to explain to us what's included in Arctaurus Group. So I think, in fact, let's do that first, because when you actually start explaining the organisation, people go, ah, oh, yeah, now I recognise those incredible brands, right? Exactly that. So start with that, and then I want us to have a look at where things started and kind of how you've ended up in this fantastic role of CEO.

0:58Jason Cotta:Yeah, of course. So, yeah, I'm the CEO of Alturas Group, which is a group I founded January of 2025, owned by Trispan, who are a fabulous private equity house, who's kind of a bit of a specialism around restaurants and casual dining, because the three brands that sit under the umbrella of the group are Pho, which is a Vietnamese brand, Rosa's Thai, and Mowgli, which is an Indian brand. And so there's about 125 restaurants in the group. And the reason we brought them together under this one umbrella was to realise all of those kind of operational synergies, business development, personal leadership development, and just see if we could create a platform for those three businesses to be even more effective.

1:44Right, okay. So there's a lot in here because world of hospitality, but you've had an illustrious career. You started on the shop floor, as we were talking about, right the way up to CEO.

1:55Jason Cotta:Yeah. So when you were starting out in those early days, and you can tell us what the first job was and all of that good stuff, but did you always know that you were going to become a CEO? Did you have that ambition, that vision when you were younger starting out in the sector, or did it just evolve over time, would you say? Absolutely no ambition. Not no ambition, but no idea that I would get to here. I always describe myself as an unlikely CEO. and I say that for a couple of reasons and this is not scientific but I'll give you my rationale that if you were to take the FTSE 100 and its CEOs as being broadly representative then the proportion of that group that are male well that's most of them so I get that one but I'm gay there's I think currently I think there's one out gay CEO in the FTSE 100 I think so.

2:54Jason Cotta:I don't think it's much more than that. I'm not white, which would be most of the rest of the FTSE 100. I'm not university educated. I left school when I was 16. We'll come back to that where I started my job. And I'm from a, you know, counter house background. We grew up in some tough areas. And I think if you combine all of those things, then statistically speaking, I'm a highly unlikely CEO. So, from that start point, then I think that, yeah, I mean, I was, I grew up as the only non-white kid in a very white area, well, me and my brother.

3:38Jason Cotta:And we're talking sort of, you know, 1980s, horribly bullied all the way through school. So I couldn't wait to get out. So, you know, came 16, I left with next to no qualifications and went to work for Tesco on the shop floor, stacking shelves, working checkouts.

4:03Jason Cotta:And loved work from the day I started because they absolutely didn't care who you are, where you came from, what colour you were. All they cared about was could you work hard? Yeah. And I've never been shy of working hard. And I think that was the start of the rest of my life at the most. And, you know, I had 10 years of Tesco in the end, but sort of joined the management trainee programme, learned everything that they did in the supermarket, which back then, you remember, that was when they still had fishmongers and butchers and bakers and all those kind of things. So I got to learn all of those skills, got to learn to manage people, you know had my first direct reports when I was about 17 and grew up in that business all the way to sort of when I was 26 27 and then I came out of it went into restaurants but just incredible proving grounds for somebody starting out and it still is to be honest I think you know hospitality and retail are a couple of the very rare sectors where you can still join on the shop floor and finishing the boardroom.

5:15Jason Cotta:I don't think there are many of those kind of organisations and school and university and those kinds of things. It isn't for everybody and whilst I don't advocate for not finishing your education, clearly you should definitely do that. There is another way. You can get there. It might be a bit convoluted but there is a route there. So I think that from that start point, I did the sort of shop floor in Tesco's and then when I went into restaurants, I went back to the floor and retrained in the kitchen as a bartender. And I watched TGR Fridays back in the mid-90s, which was an amazing proving ground as well.

5:57Jason Cotta:So everything I didn't learn in supermarkets, I did learn in TGR Fridays about how to lead people, how to communicate, how to maintain standards. So it was an incredible background and I think those two somewhat formative experiences have been what's gotten to this role. But to come back to your question, did I ever imagine I'd be here? Absolutely not. It's interesting isn't it because as you were talking I was thinking well it just shows that actually you know that anyone can achieve anything with the right people around them, in the right environment, putting one foot in front of the other, even if you haven't got a big master plan, you know, because it's crazy.

6:38I've got a purpose. I've got a vision. I know where I'm heading with my life. And actually, you know, it's messy, isn't it? Careers, business, life, it's messy. There isn't always a straight path. And I think what you've described there, for anyone that's listening, you know, one, education isn't for everyone. You know, not everyone fits into a typical sort of school environment, do they? And like you were saying, you know, if you've got kids around you and you've been bullied and you've got all of that starting out in life, that's pretty tough. You must have had to have quite a thick skin then when you were quite young.

7:10And where were you growing up, Jason? Where were you actually home?

7:13Jason Cotta:The Medway Town, so sort of North Kent. Oh, yeah, yeah, I know. So, yeah, I mean, it's... I don't know that I had a thick skin. I think that you... There's something about resilience, isn't there? Resilience and tenacity and grit or whatever. Not that I thought I was that person at the time, but as I reflect back on it now and as I use it as a sort of leadership lesson to myself or to others is that if you just keep soaking it up but carry on regardless, then that is the definition of tenacity and resilience. it's if you you know have to quit or you have to do something different or you let it get you down and and I think that's the the point for me that when you've done all that sort of stuff in your formative years then you know when you run up against bad bosses which we all do yes um tough situations or you get setbacks in your career then you learn you've got to pick yourself up from them learn from what happened and come back come back better you know and I think that's served me well all the way through my career because I mean as you said you know careers they're messy and mine's been you know as messy as any I've been you know demoted twice made redundant twice um you know you you get knocked back and and how you pick yourself up from that learn and move on again is the is the measure of the person isn't it and with those early years then Jason with your mum and dad and you said you had a brother what was family life like though in terms of you know outside of the school and the sort of education system what was life like at home for you growing up?

8:52Jason Cotta:Fabulous to be honest never wanted for love or food so that is that's the foundation isn't it ultimately that you know knowing where you fit within your own family environment is the basis for everything. And I use it right up to me, including now, that no matter how crap work it is, and God knows it is sometimes, my family was still loving it. And that's all that really matters at the end of it. And so I think I've kind of used that throughout my life as, yes, this situation's terrible and maybe I'm unhappy with it, but ultimately I'm still going home to something that is better and always constant.

9:37Jason Cotta:And I think, yeah, whilst we weren't poor or anything, but we grew up in council houses and I come from working class stock. I had a good childhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's solid foundation to being loved. Like you say, not really wanting for anything that you needed in terms of the basics of life. Actually, I think it's the heart, isn't it? and it just means that when you're having a tough time you've got that place to go back to those people that are always going to be on your side to a certain degree they may call you out oh they definitely call you out certainly my family would do the same or if I get a bit too big for me boots sometimes my husband will go you know what don't order him now remember where you've come from I have my brother for that he regularly reminds me of my place and we need that you do of course you do so I think that solid foundation is great so long time at Tesco great brand and an opportunity to work from literally the shop floor up through the organisation which is great and I would actually add travel to the industries as well as an example where you can also do that whether you're a rep back in the days or you're in a call centre or you're in a travel agent it is a career that you can start on the operations side learn the trade literally and then you know have that trajectory up to sort of management and leadership so I think I think that's great to have done that and so from then from Tesco you jumped into hospitality then you had quite a long well most of your career after that has been hospitality hasn't it so so what was catalyst for leaving Tesco in the next move for you I mean I can distinctly remember the moment I was I knew I was leaving Tesco because it was was coming around on on my 11th Christmas in Tesco and as I was contemplating building building Christmas displays of Quality Street and mince pies I sort of took a long hard look at myself and went oh I can't do this anymore I need to do something different yeah and it's really interesting actually somebody back then what were then called you know personnel managers or staff managers, HR managers, not even HR managers, they weren't HR managers, they were personnel or staff managers, but it was a fabulous one.

12:05Jason Cotta:And she said to me, she recommended a leadership book called The Psychology of Success. And she went, you should listen to this. And I mean, it's horribly dated now, but it basically asked, it did all those things around, you know, ask yourself the question that, you know, if this was the last thing you would do, if this was your last year on earth, and all those kind of things, are these the things you would do? Yeah. and I just came away from it and I went and found her afterwards and just said look I just need to let you know that I've listened to that psychology of success and I'm leaving so so it kind of worked not sure it was the way she intended it not quite but but that's what got me out and then back then um if you remember it like it was the Daily Mail had a Thursday job section every Thursday the Daily Mail was a job section and it was this big advert for TGI Fridays we were recruiting you know training managers come and work for us and I remember going up to Covent Garden and Haymarket and sort of going for the interviews and doing some things and just got got the gig but it took a 30 % pay cut to go into the role moved up to London from you know Kent where I spent the entire time alive and found TGI Fridays and at that point kind of found my calling and that was people and communication because ultimately those are the two things that I love and I think I'm good at and then probably the other big thing was that for as much as my opening comments about being a gay CEO I was I came out I was 19 to 1989 but I didn't come out of work until a decade later supermarkets very macho very very full-on environments back then through the 80s and so coming out of work was just not something I was ever going to do but as soon as I got to Fridays I was out from the day I arrived and never went back in my closet so because that was the kind of culture and environment it was it was full of you know actors and dancers and you know all the things that it was back then and so you know that was at the point that I genuinely sort of brought my whole self to work and did all that sort of stuff around just being who I was and that is so powerful because you know as any person who comes out tells you you burn vast quantities of energy maintaining a double eye in your speech in your how you talk about people and how you talk about the weekend you didn't talk about them so yeah cgf was a complete eye opening in that respect because it was that was the first time which I was sort of fully new.

15:00Jason Cotta:But also just utterly exposed to all these fabulous people who were absolutely crackers most of them. Wrestling actors and dancers and whatever just desperate for their big break and working really hard to be the best they could be but you know you'd find them rehearsing dance steps on the back dock and you know it was it was just a great place to be back then and you know I feel sad for Fridays now because I think it's been for a lot of trials over the last few years but you know then we were still two hour wait on the door and 16th at the bar and people would wait an hour or two hours for a table it was the place to be yeah yeah absolutely and I had a fabulous fabulous time And I think probably there is when I really met two or three people that became mentors and sponsors of mine that just were influential in the next stages of my career.

15:58Jason Cotta:So, I called Adrian Johnson, who was my area manager, office director when I first got there. He gave me my first big break as a restaurant manager. and he also taught me some really valuable lessons actually I was an assistant manager and assistant general manager and was waiting to get my first restaurant and one came up and I didn't get it and I remember sitting down with him like basically throwing the dummy out and saying I was gonna leave why you did that because I didn't get which was Coyden or Coy or something like that and I didn't get Coyden or Coyden or Coyden or Coyden did you apply I'm like well no because I was next in line and he went well if you didn't apply then how am I supposed to know that you want the job and I'm like oh yeah okay then that's a really good point and you just assumed I just assumed that I was the guy and then he went stick with me you'll be alright and then truth form when the next one came up I got my hat in the ring as early as I could and sure enough I got the gig but I think he took a chance on me more than once in my career and then when I left CJ Fridays and went to work for Travelodge which was my first step into working a private equity backed business as well the guy that brought me across was my I had been the MD of Fridays and brought me across to work in Travelodge.

17:36Jason Cotta:So, again, people that you build relationships with, you do the right thing by, that you work hard in press and all sorts of those things that then sponsor you through the rest of your career. Which, it goes to the core of who I am as a leader as well. I think the power of power, the right word, and influence I have to help other people up the ladder is huge. and it's only right and proper that I do it because so many people did it for me and I think that's the that's at the core of who you know my when I think about my leadership now it's about how do I help the rest of this up the pathway and given the chances and what have you because everybody needs it everyone needs a chance somewhere only someone to take a chance on them sometimes and I I think there have been probably half a dozen people over the last 20 years that have been really influential in this respect.

18:31And I think you do, you get to a certain stage in your career, and I think both of them, I'm not sure how, I think I'm older than you anyway, Jason. Let's not talk about it. Let's not talk, it's irrelevant, really. It's just a number. But you do get to a point, don't you, in your career where it becomes much more around kind of giving back. Yes, you're still ambitious and you still want to build a business and be successful and continue to learn and grow yourself. But it does become much more about the other people. It becomes much more around giving back and being able to sort of support other people in their careers.

19:00And you're right. There are pivotal moments, aren't there, where you meet certain individuals and you just click. There's something either they see something in you that you don't see in yourself. It just happened to me a couple of times in my career. And I thought, what the hell, really, me? Well, little old me. the lobby off to Russia oh go on then and and and a big a big uh kind of pivotal person in my career was Richard Crosser and he was he was the boss at to my one of my bosses at Tilly and I still I'm still in touch with Richard to this day but he took a chance on me and he saw something in me and then that really was a massive turning point for my career you know I kind of really went went like the clap was from there so to speak but when you meet those people and they do give you that sort of opportunity how do you feel at the time because I know when I've been given those opportunities I almost sort of felt like I didn't want to let them down as much as want to do a good job it was almost this sort of oh my god this person has put their trust and faith in me I've got to make it a success because otherwise you know I'm letting them down yeah um but it It felt a lot like that to me when I had those moments.

20:09I don't know if you felt the same.

20:11Jason Cotta:It was actually the same. I can 100 % picture myself sitting down with each of these people and saying to them, I won't let you down. Thank you for doing this. I won't let you down. And you're right. You then move heaven and earth to make that so, don't you? Because you don't want to let them down. And not that they've ever, ever given me cause to think I owed them something. No, not at all. But you, yeah, you do, don't you? You want to do your best for those people because they tried for you. But yeah, I think it's, those people are so critical. And it's quick to say one other person that's been at Wheels or influential in my career, and it kind of relates to background, my background, is that I've been successful by most people's measures in my career, but I always believed I got there because I could work hard in you.

21:09Jason Cotta:Because I left school with no qualifications, I always had it in my head I was a little bit slow. And so I didn't have the intellectual capacity to keep up with you, but I can work harder than you. So working hard was my go-to. I'm going to start earlier than you, I'll finish later than you every single day because it's the only way I can get there. It's kind of how to think you. And I carried this sort of, you know, I was confident in everything I did pretty much other than intellectually. And one, I kind of always read a lot all the way through my life. So I kind of agreed to have knowledge.

21:53Jason Cotta:But when I was, but I did have a real chip on my shoulder about not going to university and not having qualifications and what have you. Was that all in your own head or was it the environment and people would comment or make certain judgments around you? Was it all internal, do you think, or was there a reason for you to feel that way? Oh, it was all internal. Yeah, I don't believe I ever got judged from not having a university. I mean, after a certain point, it's absolutely irrelevant anyway. But I think why it was relevant to me was that, so I worked for TGI Fridays and I was owned by Whitbrook back then.

22:28Jason Cotta:and then I left for five or six years and then I came back to Whipred with Costa Coffee. Same boss, Adrian Johnson, the guy that made me a GM in TGI Fridays and also made me the first National Office Director of Costa and also subsequently sponsored me to become the MD at Costa when he stepped down as well. But the guy that ran Costa back then was a guy called Chris Rogers who had been previously the CFO of Whipred. hugely talented, hugely successful man. But he took the decision in his career to come and run Costa. So he stepped out of his CFO role in the PLC and became the CEO of Costa effectively.

23:13Jason Cotta:And he knew my history and the rest of it and he was the one who signed off and became MD. But back then Whitbread sent two people to Harvard every year for the Harvard Advanced Management Programme, which is this like nine, ten week residential program, pocket MBA, it's not MBA, but it's incredible. It's Harvard, exactly. It's incredibly intense. Yes. Even back then I think it cost$80 ,000 that course. And Whitbread sent two people every year. And I wanted to go, I was sort of, from a performance perspective, I was in the running to be the kind of person that went. But one of the criteria was you had to have a degree, you had to come to university, or at least be educated to a pretty high standard, and I clearly wasn't.

24:01Jason Cotta:But Chris wrote a commendation letter for me to the examining board at Harvard to tell them why they should accept me into the course, because the history I've just explained and the fact that it wasn't I like the smarts, it was just I like the opportunity. and they accepted me and I went on that course and it was genuinely life changing and they do tell you when you do that course that it might be life changing for you and you're kind of a little bit British cynical about it at the beginning but it genuinely was life changing because I think I then realised quite quickly that all of these super educated, super successful executives that I was with, all their degrees and the O's and all the rest of it that I was keeping up with them without, you know, it was hard work.

24:47Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:47Jason Cotta:But I'm having, you know, I'd not been in school for about 30 years at that point. But it was, you know, it was amazing and I was keeping up. And then we got to things like, you know, operations and people. And suddenly I was the expert in the room. I was like, wow, how did this happen? You know, you're sort of getting cold called by the professor. Oh, what does Jason think about this? And I'm like, who? Oh, me. Oh, me. and then and that was just it was a revelation to me i just came back from it with a kind of an intellectual confidence to go with my track record in business sort of thing which just it was just game-changing for me but down to sponsors and mentors down to an organization like whitbread with a real focus on the long-term development of the spin ball and investing in people for the long run and having a great and it's having a great people culture that just value for the people in the organization and I think businesses like that are incredible you know you can understand my business I would be around 300 years or whatever it is because that's the kind of organization it is and that's deeply admirable and aspirational I think when

26:01so before we continue i want to speak directly to those of you who are listening and thinking i know i'm capable of more but i need structure i need some help because here's what i've actually learned after gosh more than three decades in business you know ambition without clarity creates frustration. And motivation without structure, it really does fade very, very fast. So that's exactly why we created Rise Academy. And Rise Academy, it's not theory. It isn't fluffy motivation, although you will be motivated. And it certainly isn't another online course that you never finish. It's actually a fully structured growth environment for ambitious entrepreneurs, leaders and founders who absolutely are ready to do all of these things, sharpen their strategy, elevate their leadership, increase revenue with intention and build businesses that actually support the life that they want.

27:08And inside Rise Academy, we focus on the foundations most people skip, leading yourself, leading your teams and leading the business. It's about clarity, standards decision making commercial intelligence and execution because scaling it really isn't about doing more it's actually about doing the right things and doing the things right consistently so if you're serious about stepping up into your next level of your leadership your business life you know and not just consuming content but actually implementing it then rise Academy was absolutely built for you. So you can find all the details on our website, go to www.brave-bold-brilliant.com.

27:54And now, let's get back to the show.

28:00And going to Harvard, did that layer goes to rest for you then as well, do you think, in terms of the sort of chip on your shoulder that you might have had that non-redubably to educate you. That just went up. Yeah, brilliant.

28:13Jason Cotta:And interestingly, and I say this advisedly, stopped working so hard as well, because you suddenly realize, hang on a minute, I don't just need to work hard, I can do the work smart bit. Yeah, well you've proved to yourself how do you more than anyone else. What do your parents say? Are your parents still with us? No, my mum's not, my dad is. And when you're going through all of this, and they know obviously how you would have been at school and then to see their son like, oh my God, Harvard. They must have been super proud. They were, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, they, yeah, you just, your parents are kind of, they're trying to, well, I think for all of us as parents, you're trying to equip your children with the right values, aren't you?

28:57Jason Cotta:And if nothing else, then a propensity to work hard and get on. But yeah, I mean, I don't think, I don't think they would have seen it. Certainly not. If you knew 16-year-old me, then there's not a chance you'd have believed I could be where I am. Which, you know, is all credit because, well, you stayed humble. You've worked your ass off, right? Yes. You've acknowledged and done a lot of work on yourself, I think, from what you've described, whether it was intentional or just kind of going on in the background. And you've got the fire in the belly, the ambition to want to make a difference, very much leaning into your natural abilities of communication and people, which actually is nothing to do with, you know, an education.

29:42That's just being a good human being, right? Which amazingly...

29:45Jason Cotta:Leveraging those things. No, it sounds simple, but a lot of people aren't always, right? True. So, yeah, so I think, you know, your journey has been fascinating, but also I think encouraging for anyone listening, because it proves you know that whilst yes the odds may have been stacked against if you look at the statistics as you said when we first started but anything is possible if you can dream big and you're prepared to put the work in and accept you're going to get the knockbacks you're going to get the rejections you're going to get the redundancies the non-promotions and actually i think this is where people sometimes go wrong is they don't expect that stuff to happen where if you expect you're going to you're going to fail you're going to get rejected then it's not such a shock you just go okay well i expected that dust myself off what did i learn and go again yeah and and your your career has definitely been one of reinvention as well i would say as you continue to evolve right yeah because you were 10 years at costa right now it's a long time it was yeah as well but i want to go back a little bit just just because i'm interested and i ask a question at the time.

30:52So you said you came up when you were 19 and then it was 10 years in sort of world of work before you found the right environment at TGI to feel comfortable to do that. What was it like that double life side of things? How hard was it when you looked back? well I think that