Katie Partridge: Investment Banking, GCC Business & Female Leadership | Brave Bold Brilliant Podcast

0:09Hello and welcome to Brave Bold Brilliant. Now today I am joined by a fascinating powerhouse of a woman, the wonderful Katie Partridge. Now, Katie is the CEO of Safira Group and also the CEO and founder of Jahara Global. Now, Katie's career spans over 25 years in investment, banking, asset management. But so much more than that, Katie is an absolute passionate advocate for diversity, equity and inclusion. and the work that she's doing with Jahara Global really brings together powerful women in business across the Middle East, UK, US, Saudi, UAE and with exciting plans to expand. So you're absolutely going to love this interview with the wonderful Katie Partridge.

1:05So let's get into the show. So welcome Katie to Brave Bob Brilliant. Thank you. Pleasure to be here. Well, I'm so excited about this conversation because you've had such an illustrious career in banking, investing, finance, and you're doing so much. Family office, I mean, there's a lot that's going on. And as CEO of Sephira Group and the founder of that, you didn't just start there, Katie. You know, there will have been a lot that led up to you starting the business. and of course we're going to talk about Johara Global as well and how important that is to you but when you look back Katie to you know where you actually started and where you are now what were some of the pivotal moments in in your journey that kind of led up to kind of where you are today do you think?

1:57I think the most pivotal moments were meeting inspiring people who really ignited things in me that shifted my thinking. And there were quite a few of them, but one of them was the very first board meeting that I was ever invited in to present. And I remember it was a room full of men, and they all looked at me. I just came back from my honeymoon, and they said I was completely unprepared. And they said, so tell us, what are you going to do, and what do you think? and I was very young at that time and I had no idea that people actually cared about my opinion. So that was quite a revelation to me that I could express my opinion, they listened to me and all of a sudden I was running a department.

2:45So it was very pivotal for me that my voice mattered and then of course I had to execute on it. Then the second pivotal moment was when And I was sitting in the desert in Saudi Arabia with about 100 men. And I was the only woman for the very first time. And I thought, if I can do it, other women can do it too. And it was just, you know, it was a very interesting way of realizing that I have something that people listen to. And if that has a resonance with men, I could, you know, do something with it. So those were kind of pivotal moments. And then the challenges grew, you know, from smaller clients to bigger clients, bigger asks, bigger, bolder and more brilliant sort of career statements that I had to make.

3:45But for me, it was always jumping in at the deep end and not having that fear of can I do it or can I not do it? And I think that's been pivotal to have these people around me who always encouraged me and told me that I can do it. Yeah. And it's quite interesting as you're talking, because in a lot of situations, I was always the only woman in the boardroom as well. Certainly when I was in the corporate world that I was in. And I guess there's always two ways of looking at that, you know, because you could be daunted by that and go, oh, my gosh, you know, I'm here and I'm the odd one out, if you like, in terms of gender.

4:15And especially in, you know, in the desert and you're literally the only the only woman. Or you look at it and go, oh, interesting. Okay, actually, this is an opportunity for me to have a voice and to make an impact. So there's always two ways of looking at either be daunted and be negative about it or actually go, no, I am good at what I do. And yeah, I can be heard here. So did you always have that inner confidence then, Katie, to kind of see that side of a scenario where you're standing out and different to everyone else in the group? or did you learn that through time? No, it was pointed out to me.

4:53So when I started Safira, it was actually the name Safira was given to me by the investor who started out my business and Safira means female ambassador in Arabic. And he said to me, he said, you're the translator between worlds, so you need to communicate between men and women and create large transactions where communication and bridging those cultures really matter. And I became a dealmaker. You know, I've taken many, many companies, very large companies, governments across borders to become that translator in between. So, no, the confidence wasn't there at the beginning. But I think there were these pivotal moments when people would say to me, you can do it.

5:36Here is the money. Go for it. And that really helped me on the journey. Yeah. And when you were younger, what was life like growing up, Katie? Did you think you'd end up in the position you're in now? Were you always sort of into numbers and finance even when you were younger? What was life like in the early years for you? I always wanted to work for the United Nations. Did you? I thought I'm going to have a career in politics and I thought I'm going to save humanity. But then I realised, particularly during university years, that I was very, very good with numbers and I was very good particularly in game theory, which was a surprise to me.

6:12so that really led to understanding the numbers but also understanding the softer skills so the kind of the two blended together but for me humanity and everything that I do in terms of deal making the businesses especially nowadays that I get involved with they need to have some sort of a purpose they are not just for the sake of doing deals they're for the sake of either creating more employment, changing the world in some shape or form. Now, obviously, that hasn't been the case throughout my career. That's just the evolution of me and the evolution of seeing and growing and being lucky enough to be approached by larger and larger clients to help with making judgments and help them create some sort of a difference in people's lives.

7:04So I started with the United Nations, but I kind of ended up doing it from a different angle. Yeah, and to have that clarity at such a young age, I mean, you didn't end up down that path because something else came along and you went, oh, actually, I'm really good at this and all that. So that's interesting, you know, but to have that clarity of purpose is quite unusual, actually, you know, because a lot of people never find their purpose, quite frankly, or they're still searching in their 40s, 50s. but you you knew um you knew very young actually which sort of what you wanted what was important to you yes um I knew but I didn't know how to get there I just knew that I had to push and push and then I will get to where I need to be and particularly the last few years I never planned anything it just arrived yeah and um and then I would learn from those experiences and how I can take that experience to the next level so I always had clarity in values but I never really had the clarity of the real purpose up until really a few years ago you know that's so interesting because it really resonates with me Katie because you know I've had most of my career in corporate as you know in the travel industry which I feel blessed to have led the businesses I did and the teams and you know the impact but I think sometimes you you reach a certain point in your life and maybe it's age I don't know maybe it's just a crossroads that you're at and I'm a bit like you in that like I'm so clear on what my purpose is now and it's to I know it sounds a bit a bit corny because it's linked to the name of the podcast but this is where my values are about being brave and bold and the brilliance will come but so many people they struggle to unlock their brilliant for whatever reason so I'm so clear now on why I exist and everything I do is all linked to helping other people other you know teams business unlock that greatness you know that's why I'm here and I feel it I really feel it but I didn't I didn't have that clarity so much when I was building my corporate career it's interesting and maybe it's an age thing I don't know I think it's experiences accumulating and I think people come to your life and then all of a sudden it clicks and then when you really enjoy what you're doing then you're like this is what I need to be doing and it's getting clearer and clearer yeah yeah and and you know for someone that isn't so clear Katie because that does happen as we know and some people are really struggling to and maybe they do jobs or they follow a career path that other people expect of them you know about family pressure society whatever it may be and they don't necessarily really you know follow their dreams or find their purpose if someone's struggling to find their purpose any advice for someone that's trying to figure it out it really is a journey it really is a journey and I think it's the support what really matters whether it's a family support whether it's a you know being heard and just having someone around you who can have that empathy and say this is you know helped me why don't you try that and then but I guess it starts with that openness you know a lot of people don't actually want to find their purpose they're quite happy to live their lives from one holiday to the next yeah but those who really seeking the purpose the answer is there and the people are around them they just need to open up and find those circles and I find and we do a lot at Johar Global to particularly with women to help them find that purpose match them with people who can just unlock that little thing that's missing from their lives and I think during your life you're going to have different things happen to you so the purpose will also shift yeah because when I was younger obviously my children were the number one priority that was my purpose I needed to make sure that they grow up in a healthy good value environment and then once they are on their feet you start to think so what is it that I can now make a difference as me with the skill sets that I developed and how can I give back to the world with my skills so so I think it really is an evolution and I think it's the being really open and listening to people around us and finding that support system is absolutely critical particularly for young kids younger people who you know coming out into the world with AI and it's very difficult for them to find that purpose.

11:36But purpose also doesn't equate with your career. And I want to demystify that. Purpose really is something of an inner calling that does take experience. And it does take a lot of failure and a lot of ups and downs. And I think once you get up and you learn and you try to transform on the back of that, that's when the purpose becomes clearer and clearer. but the really number one advice is find that support system that can help you and support you and just listen to you yeah yeah and that's it trust i think i think there's an element of trust trust yourself actually you know and trust your feelings trust your gut trust your heart a little bit and and when you feel sometimes when it's almost it could be like quite a physical almost you know a physical response to some clarity or a thought and and actually i think sometimes we suppress that and we try to put it down because it maybe doesn't quite fit expectations and I think we also sometimes we don't listen to ourselves we just do because we have to do yes and a lot of us get stuck in the wrong job for too long that personal happiness is important

12:55so before we continue I want to speak directly to those of you who are listening and thinking I know I'm capable of more, but I need structure. I need some help. Because here's what I've actually learned after, gosh, more than three decades in business. You know, ambition without clarity creates frustration. And motivation without structure, it really does fade very, very fast. So that's exactly why we created Rise Academy. You know, and Rise Academy, It's not theory. It isn't fluffy motivation, although you will be motivated. And it certainly isn't another online course that you never finish.

13:39It's actually a fully structured growth environment for ambitious entrepreneurs, leaders and founders who absolutely are ready to do all of these things. sharpen their strategy, elevate their leadership, increase revenue with intention, and build businesses that actually support the life that they want. And inside Rise Academy, we focus on the foundations most people skip, leading yourself, leading your teams, and leading the business. It's about clarity, standards, decision-making, commercial intelligence, and execution. Because scaling, it really isn't about doing more. It's actually about doing the right things and doing the things right consistently.

14:26So if you're serious about stepping up into your next level of your leadership, your business life, you know, and not just consuming content, but actually implementing it, then Rise Academy was absolutely built for you. So you can find all the details on our website, go to www.brave-bold-brilliant.com. And now, let's get back to the show.

14:53And so let's talk about Jahara, because this is how, well, we met through the Abram Accords Prosperity Group, actually, which again, you know, that came from me being at an event, And Sir Liam Fox happening to be there on the day that we went live with our Rise Academy. I mean, it was almost like the perfect storm. And then Liam coming up, having a conversation with us saying, hey, you know, we're doing all this great stuff in the Middle East. We need mentoring. We need leadership development for what we're doing in the region. And then I then got introduced to you. And then here we are sitting today.

15:32right but had I not been in the room on that day at that exact point I didn't seek it out it just kind of came to me through through the um that connection vibe I mean I'm a bit woo-woo you know I believe in a bit you put out to the universe and things come back to you and not in a way of giving to receive I don't mean that um but yeah it's just funny how if you have an open mind people pop into your life thoughts pop into your brain opportunities come up when you least expect it and then all of a sudden it can lead to a beautiful journey that you never actually had planned out but it's amazing so hence us coming together and jahara so talk to us about jahara what it is why it exists why it's so important and then we're going to sort of dig into that a little bit more, Katie, if that's all right, because it's so important.

16:26Yes, so actually the two are interconnected and they are all connected to my purpose. So having spent working with the Middle East, predominantly, not only with the Middle East, but taking the West to the East and shifting that perspective and perception of how the Middle East, in particular the GCC region, is being perceived by the West. So for me, I believe that the Abraham Accords and anything to do with peace requires women around the table, because women raise their children, they interact with their husbands, they make an impact in their communities, businesses, and also women are exceptionally good negotiators, which was to me, a key point between both trying to get to peace, which we hope we're going to shift the dial in our lifetime, but also for women, the leadership and the negotiation and being able to shift their own lives is the same thing.

17:41It really comes from within. And for Johar, it really is. We see women as jewels. We are really leaders in our families, communities, businesses, and some people on the global sphere. And we wanted to create a platform that really gave that support system for women of influence to be able to grow, to give back to one another. So as we rise, we've got an even bigger downward impact. because if you can start to shift the mindset and if you surround yourself with like-minded women from whom you can learn, whom you can help, but together we have a downward impact, there is a bigger chance of making a difference, whether it's in the Middle East, whether it's bringing countries, companies closer together, just like the Abraham Accords Prosperity Group does, or whether it's just simply creating a better mindset for the next generation.

18:48So to me, this leadership platform is not about getting women into the boardroom. It's not about your career. It's about looking at women holistically and giving them actionable tools to succeed in life and the support system. So cultural nuances do better. So we make it global so you can learn what works in one country and what works in the other country. And that was one of the skill sets that I learned in dealmaking was it's not enough to understand the numbers. If you do not understand the culture you're operating in, you will never be able to successfully structure a transaction or execute on the ground.

19:28So everything I do is interlinked. So Johara for me is an extension of everything that I do. Very powerful network. women appreciate it more than I ever imagined and it was just amazing to see how it has butterfly effect if you bring positive energy to the room if you bring real expertise to the room women just want to learn more and more and more and want to give more and more obviously we give voice to men as well so we are not just women chatting in a room we have a very serious agenda we've got the best expertise coming into the room to educate us sometimes it's men sometimes it's women so that's the essence of joker global and and it's a it's a membership program isn't it it's a community you know so there is a commitment and i think this is important it's not necessarily around how much it costs to join that is not the point but it's a commitment is it's a commitment to be part of this this group of incredible women and and to bring the best of yourself to the group with the intention of then sharing that knowledge that experience that value that we that each individual woman brings and therefore rise as you climb I think is the way that I kind of look at it so it's the next generation but it's also your peer group and and just really having that power of stronger together is what struck me and we were recently last week in fact we were at the annual summit which was a great success so congratulations Katie that was in really special and it was my first event um but it was it's hard to explain unless you're in the room you know but you've got within it you have you have Saudi Arabia UAE UK and newly or coming soon sort of really hot off the press is the US so you know you're really bringing a wider a wider collection of experienced cultures together which is fantastic do you see a future where you may also expand your horror into say Asia or into, you know, outside of the Middle East.

21:51I know we can't boil the ocean all at once, but we have to go step by step. But what's your sort of longer term view for Jahara in terms of geographical expansion? I'm very keen to expand to Africa. Okay, yeah. I think we can make some change there, really significant change. And this week I actually met someone very inspiring who created an amazing program, which I think we can replicate not just across Africa. She specifically created it for Africa, but across the GCC region, across the US and also the UK. Yes, we would like it to be open to anyone around the world. The significance of the chapters really is the circles of eight.

22:39So you can meet with your peers, you can get local support because inspiration can ignite that transformation, but then you really need to execute on it and you really need to be able to have the support system locally around you. So for me, we've been building the foundations and I feel that once the U.S. is launched, we're going to be able to expand across North America to Canada, South America, and then from the UK standpoint and the GCC standpoint, I'd like Africa to be a next focal point before we look at Asia. Yeah, okay. So whenever I work on strategy with an organization, I always talk about three phases of growth, and we kind of know what's sitting in each of those buckets, if you like.

23:27And I can see this roadmap. I'm picturing a world map where we've got our little pins down at the moment and then that's sort of expanding, but in a logical way that allows the impact to not be diluted. because I think this is very important you know we're talking about it's quite an exclusive club let's let's be honest you know we've got really incredible women of impact of influence it's not elitist at all but it is it is to make sure that the I guess the quality the values or the integrity the DNA of Jahara continues as you grow very much so and it's not about the quantity It really is who is in the room and that influence that they can create can affect, you know, together we can affect millions of people.

24:15But it really, that person who is a member of Johara, they need to have the desire to grow themselves. Because as a leader, that is the only way that you can be. but also they need to have that quality whereby they're at a stage in their life where they're willing to give back yeah and it's not just money it's also time and support to your peers because when you're in the room and you make decisions it it can really ignite a change and together we can actually have a very influential voice and and that's to me is the real key it's not the number of members it's being selective and coming there with the right intention and then one day I hope we will have that collective voice where we can go into each country and really help in areas where it matters the most but it's we're really still at stage one I am also very passionate about the next generation so I'd like to roll out of women of influence bringing their daughters and opening that next gen or they're calling them rising gens yes now um to learn because that is also our duty to give the wisdom give the skill set to them so they can create a better future for their families and we could not start that soon enough yeah no and this is why i'm really delighted about about you know me getting involved with jahara as well and for us as an organization you know brave bold brilliant you know to be part of this and to partner with Jahara to add value to help to support to develop you know whether it's in in the business strategy whether it's in mentoring whether it's in leadership development all the all the areas which I'm passionate about and I know you are and and for me that kind of coming together is really important based on shared values based on a desire to do better in the world and to support each other and I think for me that that's just such a great opportunity for us collectively and it's so important I think because very often I look back at my career and there were certain I was very fortunate in my career and I had a lot of support and had a lot of male advocates and I had a lot of female and nearly always had male bosses actually in my career but I never I never walked into the room thinking there was going to be a problem you know even though I was often the only woman with a P &L and I will qualify this slightly and thank God for our female HRDs and chief people officers and I'd like to see more male CPOs actually but the point being that you know for me I never my attitude was always if I think there's going to be a problem there will be so all I can do is be the best I can be true to my values say what I'm going to do do what I say treat people with respect be me as much as possible without you know the mask um and actually see what happens and I think that that sort of experience when you have been a quite a lone voice or a lone person in an organization having to have the inner dialogue a lot yourself because there wasn't anyone really around to say that to me apart from you know I've got great people in my life my husband's fantastic but in the organization there weren't that many people to give me that support and I think that's the thing isn't it because with Jahara it's a safe space and some of these women may not have that in their careers or in their professional circles but Jahara fills that gap doesn't it yes we really do and I think it's lonely on the top and you need to share to broaden your horizon but I think for us as women we really need to feel that we're being heard.

28:08And I think that comes back to my very first experience in this boardroom where I just did not realize that I had a voice and it mattered. And I think the older I become, the more refined that becomes. And I think that's having women's voices heard in the room over the last few days. It was, I mean, so inspiring and so incredibly like, wow. I mean, the businesses they started, the way they thought about it. I mean, I just I learned so much. And we need that. We need that support. But we also need that, you know, celebrating each other and giving ourselves a time that this is our space, our three days.

28:53And, you know, the kids will be fine. The husbands will be fine. But we need to bond and share all of those things that are just common to us. Yeah. And we talked about, yeah, with the session I was doing, we talked about energy and putting your own oxygen mask on first, you know, because you can't be the best leader, the best mother, the best friend, the best wife, girlfriend, whatever it might be, unless you're in good shape. And I think as women, and this isn't a down with men up with women conversation, not at all, because we love our male colleagues, our male partners, et cetera, you know, so we're just different, but we think differently.

29:27we act differently but I think very often as women we we give a lot you know sometimes I think my god everyone everyone wants a piece of you you know and and actually what's left what's left for you so I think having that ability to put your own oxygen mask on and really take care is so important and Katie when you and I've had times where I've got it wrong like spectacularly wrong and I've crashed and you know I've really burnt out in extreme ways have you ever had times in your career with the pressure that you've had and with the big you know the clients that you have and all of the you know the deal making you're doing it's a lot at the same time as being a working mom and everything else you've got going on in your life have you ever had times where you've really burnt out or you you've kind of felt on the edge you know I haven't I learned at a very young age how to regulate my nervous system so I know when to stop and I know when to take a step back.

30:22It took me a long time to know what works. And I think with age, I'm learning even more to fine tune that. But yes, there are times when just 150 emails coming at me all at once. But I learned to prioritize. I learned to make the right judgment, what matters, what doesn't. But I think that's a skill that I've been working on myself very, very consistently, shall I say. Yeah. But it is tough. It is tough. I mean, what we have to hold together. But it is also a gift because, as they say, give a busy person more work and it will get done. And I think we can hold a lot of things, but as long as we can hold them with quality.

31:09So becoming more selective, what really matters in your life comes back down to your values and who you are and understanding who you are and what your purpose is. and what are some of the the because I think as women we're incredibly powerful I think as men we're incredibly you know men are incredibly powerful as well but I think sometimes as women we don't always get it right you know we we sometimes don't help ourselves we overgive yeah we overgive we don't um shape our boundaries and we're too nice I've been called the good girl and I had to kind of sharpen that to make sure that you know I have my boundaries right yeah yeah and it is it's true isn't it and I think if you're if you're a bit of a people pleaser which I certainly have been guilty of and I still am I think you know it's an element which is not a bad thing necessarily but if that's too much then actually you know I was having a conversation with Jill on my team this morning I said you know I think sometimes people can mistake kindness for weakness or generosity for weakness and and that then becomes you know too much sometimes so so I I think as women to have the ability to say no or not right now in a nice way is so important because I think very often we say yes to everything.

32:25I don't know what your experience has been, Katie, at getting better at saying no and creating those boundaries. Yes, I've been working on that very hard. But most importantly, it's valuing ourselves. It's that putting that value is very important. And for me, that's been the most difficult one to accept what I'm worth. And I've been always putting myself what I'm really worth. So that's saying no, better boundaries, and really creating that value system that I'm worth it. Sounds like a cliche. But when it comes to pricing your services, when it comes to going into the world and explaining what you do and how you do it, we're still underpaid when it comes to a man compared to a woman.

33:16And I've been battling with this because I was brought up that I'm worth less than a man, even though I think in situations I've done an incredibly good job where women could not do half of what I was doing. So it's still a balancing act. But I would also say I also know my place and I don't want to be a man. so that's also very important like I come across a lot of women who they think they know it all and they can do it all as a man I'm also sensitive that in certain positions I can't do what men can do and therefore my value is going to be less so it's it's a real balancing act depending on what you do but it is important that you understand your value and you articulate that value very clearly yeah and and and I think I mean you you do big deals you you describe yourself as a deal maker which I love right because that's great I mean and you're connecting right you're connecting people you there's a business opportunity there's an opportunity to create financial rewards impact in the world you know this is not about you know money and business and profit being a dirty word no you you would need that to create opportunities to create impact in the world so as a deal maker negotiating which can be really tough really tough but you said you think women are better negotiators what's your perspective what's your approach to when you've got a big deal and you're negotiating what's your style what are the things that you sort of have learned over all these years Katie to be you know a great negotiator in a way that is still you so number one I leave my ego at the door outside of the room that really helps number two I listen before I speak read the room before you speak number three is think think in a way where you're not just thinking in a moment but you think ahead you know there's a chessboard I look I think in sort of chess boards but I believe that chess boards have corners and I try to look for those corners so that's that's a skill that I developed but that's also quite a lot of game theory behind it and I wired my brain to think like that but it helps in negotiations but it's the human aspects people very quickly give away their weaknesses and there's one particular president who does an amazing job at immediately seeing your weakness and going right in there so it's it's a skill that you develop over time but you've got to be able to read the room if you read the room the answers are all there the solutions are all there but most people either start to be driven by ego or they don't listen so those are my top three tips that's so powerful I mean you know it's like having a master class just right here and now no seriously because this is this is so important and i think in in terms of women having confidence and and trust in their ability but i think sometimes because maybe we're nervous or we feel like we need to act more like an alpha female which i've been guilty of in the past as well mind um i think we get no so then we over talk yes i'm actually stop breathe listen and and that that is such a great framework that you've just shared there did you I mean obviously you've learned this over time you know it's come with experience and scars and the scars so yes I mean obviously we're not going to get into the the minutiae of the detail it but can you remember a time when you had a scar or it didn't go so well and you know you ever have that feeling where you walk out the room and you just think I could have done better or I did shouldn't have said that or oh my god that didn't go the way and you and you you almost have you feel you know that sick feeling in your stomach have you Have you ever had any deals or negotiations where you've walked away thinking, oh, God, I really messed that up or that wasn't me at my best and you're kicking yourself a little bit?

37:25Yes, it was someone taking advantage of me in a really big way. And it was a huge learning curve and a blessing in disguise because if I hadn't gone through that experience, I wouldn't be where I am. So I think I had to go through that experience. but it was very painful because I thought I was doing everything right. And I did in my heart, in my brain, but I didn't quite pay attention to the human component. Even though in my gut at one point I could see it, something wasn't quite right, but they took advantage of me. And it was where you just think you're intelligent, but you're a fool. And you've got to learn how to look at things as a full picture and take a step back before rushing into and just be driven by action, action, action, action.

38:24So it taught me so many things about human behavior. Just that one case taught me about how people behave when things go right and how people behave when things go wrong. I could probably write an entire case study for a university lecture because it all came down to human behavior, every component of it. How long ago was this? It was exactly nine years ago. Oh, wow. So it really is so poignant in your mind that you're like, it was nine years ago. It was nine years ago, but I tend to have big shifts every sort of eight to nine years. there is um every eight years there seemed to be a shift for me yeah that's interesting something happens yeah something tells me that okay either the next level is coming up so can you step up and can you learn from it or you're going to stay at the level where you are so I'm at that crossroads and you feel like there's a crossroads now for you 100 okay 100 in what sense in every sense and I think that's why I took a leap of faith of rebranding Johara pushing it out to the world more similarly to my business I'm taking it to the next level it's sometimes you outgrow certain level and you need to go to the next level and I feel that next level is coming great well I mean it's exciting to be on the journey with you and to see what's going to happen and you know it's interesting because I think if anyone's into Tony Robbins I love Tony Robbins you know I know he's big loud American with big teeth and you know he's kind of out there you know so he's not for everyone I understand that um but I went to America um in December and I did a date with Destiny which I've been saying for years I really want to do a Tony Robbins you know and of course it was it was a real experience I will say and I I was very moved by it there was a lot of sort of unpacking of things that I'd maybe been burying for a while it helped me come back with real clarity for the business just so many so many different things but I think one of the things that that Tony Robbins talks about is when you get to a certain level you raise your standards and and actually anyone regardless of where they are in life or position or job isn't you know you are exactly where you are as a result of the standards that you set I 100 % agree with that yeah and that's kind of linked to what you're saying there Katie isn't it you know you're you're raising the bar I'm raising the bar and it's the right time and I think it's the right time for all the missions that I have for myself yeah what have you learned about yourself most over this journey you've been on do you think the the biggest lesson I learned was for me I need to be more true to myself and listen to my gut and that alignment across the board and saying no if there is no alignment say no because you could be wasting so much time with the wrong people with the wrong deal with the wrong strategy for Johara so if I don't feel that it's the right people around the table the right alignment then go another direction yeah and let's talk a little bit around saying farewell to certain people in our lives right and and I mean this in a not in a brutal ruthless you know cut people out I'm not saying that um but I think we outgrow situations we outgrow where we are and it's not and sometimes we move on and we're just not aligned with with people that have been in our life before it could be love relationships it could be friendships it could be colleagues a whole bunch of stuff and I I struggle to move to walk away and to move away I get I'm getting better at it and I and I'm less emotional about and just go that's okay it's just life you know and you're you're in one place here with that that group of people for a while and then you maybe want different things and then you just naturally evolve and so so have you found that this sort of element of shedding the past a little bit and then it's like growing a new skin isn't it we're like snakes but you know what's to me in this how do you let go of people who have been in your life for a long time and and or maybe you just reduce the amount of time you spend with them but they're less they're less important than they were because in order for you to move forward and do what you want to do so what I learned over the last few months in particular because I had to let go of a lot of people in my life and they will still be part of my life in some shape or form but maybe not in a dominant role as they used to and I think what I realized and I really struggled with letting go of people and the reason and now I know why I had this issue, because I was looking for security from those people.

43:21I felt or I thought they're going to make my life secure. And then I realized that actually the security is within me, and the right people will turn up, and the right people, the next level will turn up. And I really struggled, and I was in the void for a long, long six months. and the minute I embraced it it just happened and I'm very happy about it because the next level of people turned up and it reshaped my whole life the people around me and I'm still very appreciative of the people who came and taught me all these lessons throughout the few years and who were part of my life but there's another group there's another level and I'm excited about that.

44:06Yeah some of it's about trust isn't it you know again coming back to trust your instinct trust your gut and and actually trust that there is something different something better something else that you're meant to be doing next and if you hold on to the past or hold on to something that is no longer serving your purpose that's going to stop you from the next move and the next kind of impact that you're meant to have I think it's a growth and people and then and I looked at it people looked around myself and I thought okay who is not part of my growth let it go yes and I just kind of went with that philosophy and it's so interesting because all of a sudden it became very clear that why these people had to go because they're not part of my growth my next thing that I'm supposed to be doing yeah yeah and we wish those people well you know it's not that there's no animosity it's just like you know like you say things are shifting you know that's just just a natural part and I'm grateful because I think everyone comes to your life they leave you something yes within some very grateful for those people and they will still be part of you you're not completely turning away but they're not going to dominate your life or they're not going to be so-called partners necessarily on the next thing yeah a great friend of mine Karen Karen Lloyd I'm giving you a shout out and I've been my friend for 30 plus years and she always says people come into your life for a reason a season or a lifetime yes and that's that's a quite a nice way of looking at it in a very simple way and it's not that you just cut people out but actually you just they were there for a reason at that particular time and that was beautiful but actually it's the next the next phase of growth and for me the next phase is really about I want to attract people for the lifetime now yes that that I think and then you get to a certain age in your life when you now know the people you want to surround yourself with and go with and that's my next big excitement yeah fantastic I am really excited for you actually Katie I you can feel it yeah excited for us as well absolutely no it's lovely to be part of something and I just want to talk a little bit around as we shift purpose and as we move into these next phases you know almost the business is still there right it's it's not that you're you're moving away from the business and from everything you're growing that as well I'm growing that in a much bigger way yeah so so when it comes to um money and money mindset and the size of some of the stuff that you're doing now compared to when you started out I mean I I'm I don't know if you did this I look back and I oh my god you know this is eye watering compared to where I started you know these are these are big deals these are big numbers this is it's like really quite quite quite something you know but the money mindset did you always have that in you you know because because I grew up in a very working class family and and I family full of love and care but the money mindset was much more around go to work earn a salary and you know and and and didn't have really the mindset around investing and and and you know growth and and just almost just couldn't cope with you know the perspective of money really having come from not poverty by any stretch but you know very sort of humble roots and I think that can often hold people back in business as well you know when they get a bit starstruck by the size of the deal or the numbers the numbers on a piece of paper so I'm interested in in money mindset for you and whether that was always something you kind of had an openness and a growth about from being younger or whether that is something that you've had to kind of you know develop yourself as you've done these bigger deals and it was definitely a development it was definitely a process I mean early in your career you just do deals for you know for helping clients make money growth but but that was kind of the traditional asset management asset allocation model which I think I mastered it pretty early in my career so that's that was the basics for me.

48:18And I think it's important to know those basics, because without that, you cannot move to the next level. But for me now, it's about the bigger deals. It really is about, does it move the dial? In terms of the billions of dollars that are being invested in a project, is it going to make any difference, either to the local community or the government, more employment, more impact in terms of multiplier effects for one economy or another. So I tend to focus on strategic assets at this stage in my career, just simply because that does require bringing countries together, requires critical thinking, judgment.

49:04Normally, there's a very big money at stake. So decisions do matter, because if you get it wrong, you're going to lose a lot of money. So it's a different type of thinking than just investing money. So there is the strategic money thinking on big board levels of how to choose between investing billions in one country to another and what does it do to the entire company between investing on behalf of a family office whose objective is making 20%, 30 % per deal or per year. And so it's a different mindset. But at this stage in my career, I'm more excited by strategic advisory. I'm more excited by where the world is going.

49:50What are the companies that I should get involved in that make a difference? Yeah. And whether it's technology company, whether it's minerals, whether it's entertainment, whether it's whatever helps humankind and whatever helps that specific macro picture that I have in my mind and fits into my thinking is what I focus on. Yeah, so you're managing to sort of elevate out of the detail to then have that broader worldview. Yes, yes, because that does matter. It does matter if you have billions to invest. It does matter where you put your money. And you need to look at the geopolitical landscape, which I, my friends make fun of me, but I like to wake up to understanding the world.

50:36Because without understanding the world, you cannot make investments. So you have to have a macro world view, or at least an understanding. But then also you cannot be a specialist in every area of investment. So you have to surround yourself with the specialists. so I cannot be a specialist in every area but you can take that input and you can learn from the specialists on the ground how to make sure that it's executed with excellence so it's it's a little bit bottom-up and top-down approach yeah and have you ever have you ever been involved in or led a deal or bit or you know or done a deal that has challenged and contradicted your values where you've been in a slightly compromised not recently I walked away in fact I walked away where I felt that it was not the right thing to do.

51:28And it would have paid me a lot of money, but I still walked away because I knew that the outcome is not going to a positive outcome. And I did not want to be part of it. And that comes to also me saying no. It probably, some of these deals could bring you a lot of money, a lot of credibility. But when you can see, and this goes back to my chessboard, You have to kind of go through the chessboard to get to a transaction and getting things established on the ground. But you have to have a little bit of foresight what's around the corner. Because without that foresight, I think investments are going to have issues.