Leaders In Strategy: Growth, Profitability, and Purpose

0:09Hello and welcome to All You Leaders in Strategy. I'm Mike Harris and welcome back to another episode. A key aspect of being a successful business leader is having the right people around you to support, inspire, challenge and equip you to face the challenges ahead. So today I'm delighted to be joined by a very special guest, business advisor, award-winning podcast host, the brave, the bold and the brilliant, Jeanette Linfoot. Hello, Jeanette. Thank you for joining us. Hi, Mike. Thank you for having me on. It's a real pleasure to be here. What a fabulous introduction. I love it. Well, you deserve it.

0:49And well done on your award for the podcast. yes podcast of the decade for brave bold brilliance very exciting and they're super proud yeah so um we were saying just before we came on air that you've been running your podcast now for six six years so um make episode 600 coming up soon i think you said that's right that's right yes we started in uh 2020 july 2020 so yeah it's been a really interesting journey a real privilege actually to speak to so many cool people so yeah we love it we love our podcast brilliant and we'll put um in the link we'll put details for the podcast we'll also put it onto the video so um others who want to see more of Jeanette can go over there and see that fantastic podcast I've I've actually watched a few episodes in preparation for today and and um I can genuinely say it was really interesting and really good and you say some brilliant guests so can definitely recommend it um we like to start the these podcasts with what i call a podcast pitch which is kind of like an elevator pitch and gives you an opportunity just to tell the viewers and and um listeners about yourself your background and a little bit about your company the brave the bold and the brilliant yeah oh well thank you for the opportunity mike so i'm janet lynn foot and i'm a multiple business owner, entrepreneur, investor, advisor, and we work with businesses to really help them step up and be the best version of themselves.

2:20So we do two things primarily. We do business strategy and leadership development. Okay, so that's really what's the name of our podcast, Brave Bob, and it is also the proud brand of our business actually as well now. And we're global. We have incredible clients, you know, Accor Hotels, Virgin Atlantic, Nationwide Building Society, fabulous, fabulous clients. And we're here really, as I say, to help leaders, teams and businesses be the best version of themselves and go for growth. My background is I've been in business 30 years plus, actually now showing my age. And I was in the corporate world for a very long time.

3:00So I was in the travel industry. I was the CEO of the travel division for a company called Saga. So ran all of the travel businesses. And then I was at TUI for many years as managing director of the emerging markets. So I used to run the businesses in China, India, Brazil, South America, etc. So where I am today with our business portfolio is very much coming from a lived experience of having ran very large global teams myself. so you know i know how tough it can be but i built my career from the bottom up like we often do uh manchester girl uh born and bred and um and then sort of made my way up from being on a graduate scheme at thompson holidays back in the day to becoming the ceo so yeah that's kind of my background really but uh very happy to be here mike good um we like to have an icebreaker and the reason we do that is partly to get you and i into into the right frame of mind for the podcast But also, I'm always conscious that our viewers and listeners are doing other things at the time they're listening.

4:03They might be walking the dog or going for a run. And it's to try to get them a little bit back into the zone before we get into the topic of business and business strategy, etc. So today's icebreaker, again, we had a chat just before we came on. So we're going to go with one that's quite popular, which is what proverb or mantra do you live your life by and why? So the mantra that I live my life by is you only have one life to make it count. Yeah. And maybe this comes with a little bit of age, Mike, a little bit of experience. But what I would say is I think very often we get stuck or we sweat the small things.

4:48But actually, are you living your best life? Do you know what you really want? and are you living a life that's joyful that is you know that you love what you do you love the people you're around because if not then you're wasting you're wasting an opportunity so you know live every life as if it's you're going to be your last day sort of sort of mantra and maybe not as extreme as that but yeah you only have one life so make it count yeah well i'm going to go with one that's similar actually i'm going to i'm going to kind of feed off that one so one of my mantras in life is um the the fact is we spend a lot of time at work we're really focused on it um so we we need to enjoy it at the same time there's no point doing what we're doing and putting all the hours in if we're not enjoying it and so i think it's really important that you do something you enjoy then it doesn't feel like work it feels it feels almost like a hobby um and and And to me, the big thing that makes the difference between enjoying and not enjoying work was something I had a boss said to me once.

5:55Well, he actually said it quite a few times. And that was people say there's two certainties in life, death and taxes. But actually, there's three certainties in life, death, taxes and problems in businesses. So if you accept there's always going to be problems coming up, there's no point getting wound up over it. There's no point looking for somebody to blame because it's going to happen. So put all your energy in focusing on the solution and don't worry about it. Because if you're worrying, you're looking at the problem. And if you focus on the solution, it actually becomes more interesting, more fun, and you can work it through.

6:32So a good bit of advice that I got was you can enjoy work more if you're focusing on solutions rather than focusing on problems. And he must have told me that when I was in my 20s. and here I am a lot older than that now and I still think back to those discussions I had with Terry and and the way he put it but I just felt it was brilliant advice and it ties it's not exactly the same as yours but it's a kind of a similar thing about enjoy what you're doing as opposed and and find a way to enjoy what you're doing rather than ending up getting stressed and and worrying about things so yeah no that's great advice and I think so often we you know people focus on what they're going to lose and not what they're going to gain and it's you know that that's the same in business and in life actually you know so if you're coming from a position of scarcity rather than a position of a sort of an open growth mindset it's going to drive your behaviors and your sort of you know your your how you feel about things and your mental approach to life i think and you probably find this with with um what you do with your big clients around um business planning strategy etc but it never ceases to amaze me that i i have clients that fall into one of two camps so if i'm doing a a sort of risk and opportunities with them i get one set of clients that i have hundreds of risks and no opportunities and they're the pessimists or hundreds of opportunities and no risks they're the optimists it's very rare i find businesses that actually have a reasonable balance between the two and i always find that's a really good way of finding out about the business you're going to be working with to actually understand the mindset.

8:09Yeah. And I would suggest that most of them are more the risk long list than the opportunities. But there are some that are very optimistic and have big opportunity lists. So you are. Well, I always think your risk and opportunity should be a bit like a balance sheet. It should at least balance. But you really should have your opportunity number being higher than your risk number. So actually, you know, because, and then what I do with risk and opportunity schedules, because I've always had them running alongside the P &L right even in my corporate life is a lot associating a low middle high in terms of the likelihood of that happening and quantifying the potential impact and on EBITDA and revenue absolutely yeah and then when so yes when it then something becomes a high then it should be moving on to your forecast yeah and then it's about you know the mitigation if it's a risk or the actions to make it happen if it's an opportunity so um and i do i mean we're digressing but i i also find with risks and opportunities quite often the same it's a risk and an opportunity could effectively be the same thing it's a it's it's the flip side of the same coin you know you you can look at um scarcity of resource and say that's a risk but if actually you go about it and get that resource and get them into the business it becomes an opportunity because other people haven't got that resource so you know quite often it's as As I say, it's the flip side of the same coin, depending how you look at it, I think.

9:36Yeah, absolutely agree with that, Mike. Yeah, good. So coming into sort of the interview proper then, what motivated you to become a business consultant and advisor in the first place? Well, I think I'd reached, I mean, I always loved my corporate career. So that's the first thing I would say. I was never one of these people that, you know, sack your boss, you know, become your own boss or any of that. so I love my corporate career and I was probably got to about I was about 48 at the time um back then and so that was last week then no I wish mine I wish it was a while ago it's a while ago um and you know I'd really loved the corporate roles and as I say I'd worked for some incredible businesses and created some amazing teams but I was at a stage of life where I really wanted more control over my own destiny, if you like, and my own schedule.

10:28So it was the right time for me to step out and essentially set up my own business portfolio. And also at that time, my husband is 10 years older than me, and we were also thinking about, well, what does the next phase of our life look like? So he's not, you know, I'm not saying this coming from a point of ill health or anything like that, but we said, well, we've probably got 20 good years left together where we're going to be fit enough to want to put on a backpack and go around South America or do you know the travel and things that we want to do so we really sat down and scoped out what our life together wanted to look like and that also influenced then the way that I set the businesses up so it was really around freedom choice flexibility multiple streams of income wanting to do really great work with clients that i've got a passion for that i know i can add value but life by design on our terms and that really was the catalyst and honestly i've never looked back it's been a fabulous and fabulous journey the last five years and was it successful have you did you know what you're doing does that deliver all the things that you hoped it would yes yes definitely but you know it's it's not without its challenges you know mike i mean you know yourself when you jump out if you've been in the corporate world you have a lot of support a lot of structure you have big budgets you have your teams and then when you do set out on your own it's really you with your reputation and your phone and your connections so and and also you're investing your own money right if you're investing and we have a real estate business we're investing in assets we also invest in the growth of brave bob brilliant our business so you know you have got all of those decisions are on your shoulders and it feels different when it's your own money rather than spending you know a corporate budget shall we say and the biggest problem i had is i i used to have big teams i mean i i work construction projects and and not as direct reports but as teams i would have thousands of people and all of a sudden you've got no team you are the team and it's very different when you you know whereas before i'd be looking at who i got who's best to deal with that now i you know of course i know people and and i've got um people i can reach out to but it's not the same all you've got is yourself and so which in itself is good because it means that you're um i find this anyway it means you're learning new things all the time and you're putting your hand to new things all the time which i think is great so well yeah exactly and you know what i would say is starting a business is different to scaling you know we're in scale up now you know we're past we're past the starting stage and we've built a global brand that's trademarks you know all over europe us australia you know so so actually we are building a scale business and that is different that requires different focus different resources you know we need a bigger team you know capability etc and a different level of investment and appetite for risk as well so you know it's a great journey but it really was around designing our life that incorporates our professional aspects as well as our personal personal life so no it's it's not been easy but we're definitely we've definitely uh done the right thing and it's been successful you sound like you've been far more successful than me though because um there was lots of good business reasons i did what i did and um and from a point of view of setting up a business to go and work with people and help them that's all work great but one of my main motivations was when i worked for my previous business i spent my whole time driving up and down the m40 from birmingham to London and back again.

14:02And so one of the reasons for setting up my own business was not to be spending all my time on the M40 and to be able to work from home. And that just hasn't worked. I'll still spend all my time on the M40. In fact, today I've just spent four hours driving up the M40 from London to be able to do this filming here today. So in that respect, it's been an absolute failure. But I love everything else about it. Yeah, we have to do what we have to do, don't we? My weekly commute used to be to Beijing or Delhi, you know, 12 hour flight, eight hour time difference. You know, so it's just different. You do what you need to do, don't you?

14:40To serve your clients. But before we continue, I want to speak directly to those of you who are listening and thinking, I know I'm capable of more, but I need structure. I need some help. Because here's what I've actually learned after, gosh, more than three decades in business. You know, ambition without clarity creates frustration. And motivation without structure, it really does fade very, very fast. So that's exactly why we created Rise Academy. You know, and Rise Academy is not theory. It isn't fluffy motivation, although you will be motivated. And it certainly isn't another online course that you never finish.

15:29It's actually a fully structured growth environment for ambitious entrepreneurs, leaders and founders who absolutely are ready to do all of these things, sharpen their strategy, elevate their leadership, increase revenue with intention and build businesses that actually support the life that they want. And inside Rise Academy, we focus on the foundations most people skip, leading yourself, leading your teams and leading the business. It's about clarity, standards, decision making, commercial intelligence and execution. Because scaling, it really isn't about doing more. It's actually about doing the right things and doing the things right consistently.

16:15So if you're serious about stepping up into your next level of your leadership, your business life, you know, and not just consuming content, but actually implementing it, then Rise Academy was absolutely built for you. So you can find all the details on our website, go to www.brave-bold-brilliant.com. And now let's get back to the show.

16:42so um what do you think makes brave bold and brilliant different and maybe better than other similar consultancies that are out there well in all honesty you know the the big difference between us and there are some fantastic fantastic organizations you know and there's a there's a lot of different approaches you can take to actually you know developing yourself as a leader and also your business strategy but I think the big difference for us is that we bring together those three elements of leading yourself leading your team leading the business so that that's the first thing because if you look at most consultants they'll focus on this on the business strategy most L &D or personal development are focusing on leadership and maybe a bit of team performance but no one no one i believe actually brings the whole thing together which is what is needed to be successful in business so that's one thing secondly we deal with facts and things that work it's not theory this is a lived experience of running very large global profitable businesses but i also know what it's like to buy a business sell a business um you know to grow a business from scratch to deal with smaller businesses mid-sized so we bring a lived experience so we know exactly what it's like to sit in your seat and that is different but also what I would say you know we bring in psychometric profiling so we really understand the individuals that are involved whether it's at board level or if it's a more sort of you know junior leadership levels because that's so important so we actually bring all of that together and also the other thing that we do which is different I've tended to find in organizations that I've either ran myself or I have advised they'll have a lot of focus at the executive level and maybe the senior leaders and then down here there's a bunch of courses a bunch of training courses but it's not curated it doesn't hang together with a common language and a common framework and as brave are brilliant we connect the ceo and the board right the way through the organization to those future leaders and those managers that are actually dealing with the clients face-to-face or day-to-day and that is super powerful that's super powerful so it's a it's a very different approach that we take mike and we're very proud of what we do and i absolutely absolutely agree that um quite often there's a total disconnect they're doing training and development to to the to the board middle management um to to um staff all the way through to the apprentices that are coming in but as you say there's very rarely a common theme or link and the other thing that really surprises me is is very rarely do they actually link all of that back to what the business strategy and and what the business plan is going to be either.

19:42So all these things are disconnected. All great stuff in their own right, but they're missing a trick because they're not coordinating it and focusing it to an overall sort of destination, really. Yeah, absolutely. And then what we do with our Rise Academy, which is the Ultimate Leadership Development Programme, it's a fully online digital platform, 12 modules, deeply immersive. you know every every topic has a video of me you know 45 minutes an hour and as if i'm in the room with you a workbook we provide a business toolkit and in the business toolkit there is over 150 assets guides templates case studies everything that you need that you can take and implement straight away so we don't just go on a we don't go to training course that's not it this is a leadership development program that you can actually put into practice and really impact and get concrete results straight away and then we give lifetime access to that as well so that you can come back and revisit as many times as you want throughout your entire career so that is very unique yeah i don't do it for the business and strategy side but i i have a use the same phrase i use it toolkit so for the project management and the bid management um although i don't have it online it is in-person training and presentation and then they have like an aftercare afterwards where i'm on a retainer for a period of time to to help them actually implement and use it but yeah a similar sort of thing so that toolkit approach um definitely works so and and i'm sure i'm sure your clients love it because as you say if it's there for them to keep referring back to in the future this episode is sponsored by Strategist Consulting, expert business and leadership consultancy for everyday businesses and professionals.

21:33What if the key to your business's next growth phase isn't a mystery but a proven process? Is your business at the ceiling with profits flat, daily chaos and scaling up feeling like a risky lead? You're not alone and you don't have to solve it alone. Strategist Consulting is your partner for structured transformative growth, led by Mike Harris, a proven strategist and project manager with expertise in scaling businesses, bid management and delivering results. We provide clarity through our core service, the Business Review Workshop. This isn't just advice, it's a deep dive analysis that delivers a clear actionable roadmap.

22:16We identify your bottlenecks, uncover hidden opportunities and give you the precise steps to move from stuck to strategic execution. Visit www.strategisconsulting.co.uk now and transform your business trajectory. It kind of brings me on to one thing I want to talk about. So you've got a number of programs. You've just talked about the Rise Academy, but you've got others like the Align 360, Leadership Masterminds, Business Mentoring. Do you want to just talk through a couple more of them as we're on this subject around some of the programs that you have? yeah no that's really kind of you mike fair to give us the opportunity to do that so yes so you know when we work with an organization often they they they're looking for some guidance and support in terms of what is going to be appropriate for them where they are and as you and i know you know a business will go through different levels of maturity okay so what you need when you're scaling is different from what you need when you're starting is what you're doing is different when you're at a more mature level so with our align 360 for example we would go into a business, we would interview the key stakeholders, we would then create a clear diagnostic in terms of what's working well in the business, what is the ideal scenario for them, and what actually are we seeing with some of the common themes that are coming out from those conversations.

23:37And then we're able to then say, okay, these are our observations, right? These are the common themes, the common trends. Therefore, our recommendation to you is that the Executive edge program is going to be what you need right now or maybe it's our leadership masterminds where we're going to work with your team for six months which is very much around implementation accountability group business mentoring together every single month or it could be that there are certain executives certain leaders in the business that really would benefit from one-to-one business mentoring so that allows us to really create a tailored approach to the organization and with our executive edge program you know that is where we are it's in person it's deeply immersive it's with the board at the most senior level and it's a position of great trust actually because the conversations that happen in those rooms has to be very open and transparent within those walls but it doesn't go outside so we're there to have conversations about investment choices maybe we have a dysfunctional board and we need to really look at what's going on yeah how can we help you know so or sometimes they're too nice i mean i've been in there and and they're not having the discussions they should be having because they're too polite and too nice to each other absolutely absolutely and and that allows us to really play that neutral role you know to be able to ask the challenging questions to maybe probe a little bit where where it might be uncomfortable for them to do so themselves but to create the right environment for for those conversations to happen and ultimately to be walking away with a clear plan that's going to impact the business results you know so we connect the team dynamics the leadership styles and profiles with what are the business objectives the strategy and have we got a match or have we got a gap that we might need to then address what happens when we're when we're under pressure you know how do we respond as a team so we bring a lot a lot into this into this mike so yeah executive edge leadership masterminds rise academy and business mentoring one-to-one so and and we do a lot of free stuff as well let me say yeah mike you know we put a lot of content out in terms of the podcast youtube if you go on our website there's a whole resource hub a learning hub where you can access a lot of stuff for free so we really try to help anyone even if they don't have any budget yeah yeah good and and i think um you you're saying about um sort of joining the docs up and making it work i mean i find stress testing you know they quite often have the right processes procedures thought process but nobody's actually coming and tested at what point is that going to break because it normally does at some point and and maybe it's not as resilient as they think it is to start with and it's only when a bit of tension comes in and and they're better they do that in a um controlled environment than doing it when the business is really under pressure and it's it's uncontrolled so um yeah i agree i i always believe you know change before you have to yeah um and and be on the front foot and you know even if it doesn't matter if you're a sole opener if If you're a small business, if you're a huge corporate, the principles are the same.

27:04You know, so to your point, Mike, I would recommend if anyone's listening to this thinking, oh, I'm not quite sure my processes are where they need to be. What's happening with my customer journey, for example. You know, just very simply map out your existing processes, draw it out on a flip chart and then have a look and say, where are the crunch points? Where are we getting maybe a little bit stuck? And where can we automate? Where can we bring AI in? and where might we have a capability gap and actually when i put myself in the customer's shoes is it as seamless an experience as it should be and then and then you map your new processes and then that's really simple but it just takes a little bit of headspace to be able to do that and you don't have to have big budgets to do that you can literally do that you know just writing it out but what you just said there as well i mean the number of businesses i go into and I say that sounds great but how is the customer seeing this look at this through the eyes of the customer you're looking at this through the eyes of the business and there's nothing wrong in that but it might not be the same as the customer seeing it so always looking through their lens their eyes yeah what advice would you give to business leaders and entrepreneurs based on what you do as a business what sort of a I suppose what's your top top five tips that you might give to a to a business leader or an entrepreneur yeah so i think the first that comes back to that point really the first is why do you exist yeah you know what what what's your why because if you're not clear on that then nothing else will really follow you'll waste a lot of time and energy so i think that's the first thing and then you know being understanding where you are now and where you want to be is great now things never there's never a straight path no plan ever works out.

28:56So we know that. But actually, if you have a strategic plan and a roadmap, what are the, be really clear on what are the strategic drivers for growth and profitability in your business? You know, is it the product? Is it the service? Is it tech? Is it, you know, is it the capability, human capital? What are the big drivers that will really help move you forward and when you get clear on that then you can obviously start to build a clear plan ownership accountability etc so i think that's the first thing clear on your why where you're heading and then what are the strategic drivers for growth and spending some proper headspace on this because we're so busy doing that often we're not actually spending our time on the right things and so i think that time for reflection and creating the space is is really helpful you've gotta know your numbers guys if you're a small business owner an entrepreneur and you don't know your numbers not good you've got it you what gets measured gets done and it doesn't have to be overly complicated but be a very simple dashboard one of the key indicators of your of your performance your financial strength if you're a small business owner cash liquidity yeah critical you know most businesses i mean we know that 30 percent of startup businesses fail within 12 months and within three years 50 percent of businesses have failed startup businesses and it's normally related to these topics that we're talking about now all right so so i think that's the thing and then i would really look at your the team you know as a business leader if you're a small business The temptation is to do everything yourself.

30:45And they're only 24 hours in a day. So you need to build capability in your business, even in a small way. It might be that you hire an admin person if you're a small business. Get rid of all of that kind of work if you can. And then you grow. But you really need to hire talented people that are great at what they do so that you can work on your business and not in your business. and as a business leader Mike I always use the analogy you've got to be like a helicopter right you're always adjusting so you've got to hover above looking at the horizon looking what's observing what's going on making the big strategic choices maybe dealing with your investors maybe working on a new product initiative big things but then you have to know when to land and when you need to land in your business and get involved roll your sleeves up a little bit it might be because of a particular issue a problem something's happened that they need your support and guidance it might be a great opportunity has come out of the blue and it needs some attention and then as a leader you need to take be it take off again and empower your team so you're always making this adjustment and I think those are just a few of the pieces of advice I would give I mean just picking up on a couple of those I mean your comment about knowing the numbers i mean it i it amazes me how often i go in and and i'm it's the business owner or the ceo whoever who i'm having the first chat with and i say just take us through the numbers and they have to call in the fd and i go i don't need to know the detail just high level what are the numbers and they still can't take me through it and it's one of the first things i say to them you've got to own the numbers you've got to know where you know don't need to know every detail of it and absolutely it's the fd's job to have that that that knowledge but you can't not know it at all you know you've got to have that um so yeah i agree with that and and then the um the helicopter one is is absolutely true as well that um i mean the the comparison i use is um there's a good reason why um most sports teams are not successful when they have a player manager and it's because they're on the pitch and they're trying to manage and play at the same time the most successful managers are those who are off the pitch either in the dugout or or even better in the stands and can actually see the whole game at the same time they're not just dealing with that bit in the middle um yeah which is a very similar thing and i think too many people think they are particularly on smaller businesses they are the player manager um and they're therefore doing that and okay they may have to do that from time to time but they've also got to find a way of coming back and taking that that broader view of what's going on um because they'll never they'll never see it otherwise so um not not the same analogy but the same principle of what you've said with the helicopter i think it's absolutely right um but with a better love is this idea that you land when you need to roll up your sleeves do it and then very quickly you've got to get back up into the sky again i think i think that's great yeah excellent yeah no one when no one wants to be micromanaged you're going to piss your team off if you're doing that and that's actually very often a sense of control right i'm trying to control the business actually that's probably linked to your own mindset you know there's probably something going on there or you haven't actually built the business in the right way in order to trust but what i have found and and um I say this to quite a few people and I absolutely agree.

34:23People don't want to be micromanaged except for in one instance. And that's when there's a crisis. It's amazing how people they need and they want and they ask for you to get involved and do a lot more day to day direction and management in that crisis environment. And then once you're out of crisis, they want you off again. to leave but they almost need somebody to be in there to help them to to overcome the issue deal with the problem um and so i think there is the odd occasion and i've learned this by experience only from people coming to me and i'm thinking well why do you want me to do that and you just realize they need somebody in there to to help kind of control and manage what's going on um yeah i mean i think in crisis situations you're absolutely right mike but you know you should any business should have standard procedures that kick in and levels of authority of decision making you know what one of the things of being in the travel industry which is a global industry i mean you know travel and tourism accounts for over 10 percent of global gdp we're a huge huge sector but let me tell you the margins in a travel business are very low very low if you're making five percent ebitda as a percent of your revenue you're probably doing okay which doesn't leave much room for maneuver and don't forget travel global businesses so you know i've had to deal with 9-11 ash cloud covid um multiple deaths in a destination hurricanes repatriation you name it and when those things happen you have to have decisive decision making and you have to have you know to your point ultimately the boss will have to make the call on some of those things and if you're being interviewed on the BBC or whatever and you've just you know someone has died or something has happened a terrorist attack you've got to be you've got to be on it so I do agree with you and those times that you know people need decisive decision making but the point is that's five percent of the world and so therefore the 95 you don't need it you know exactly it's just getting that balance.

36:28Now for ongoing support, join our new Patreon community. Subscribe for exclusive content from the Leaders in Strategy podcast, downloadable resources like our annual business plan checklist and access to a full business course. As a member, you'll get discounted rates on one-to-one workshops, the chance to have your business questions answered and featured in special monthly podcast episodes. Let's strategize and let's execute. Join our Patreon now and become a leader in strategy yourself. Well, thank you for joining us today. It's been really good. I've learned a lot, so I'm sure everybody else has.

37:07I've scribbled a few things down that I'm going to bring into what I do as a consultant. So, you know, plagiarism, I know, but I'm going to do it anyway. So, yeah, it's been absolutely brilliant. Hopefully, you'll come back and join us on a future show and we'll pick up a couple of other topics as well. and thank you all for watching i hope you've enjoyed it and you'll come back and join me again for a future episode when we'll have another fantastic guest like Jeanette looking at how do we grow the business and providing best business advice thank you very much i really hope you've enjoyed this episode of brave bold brilliant remember check out our new website www.brave-bold-brilliant.com you're going to find loads of resources on there that's going to help you with your leadership journey and with the businesses that you're trying to scale up and grow.

37:59So take care everyone and remember there are no limits to your growth but it is by being brave and bold that you're going to unlock your brilliance.