Look Think and Feel like an Elite Athlete with Ric Moylan

0:01Being brave is about being scared but then doing it anyway. Being bold instantly think it was often about conformity whereas now I think a great message is that people are being told to be you and then that lends into being brilliant. Every one of us, every one of us is brilliant in our own way. So here we are with the wonderful Ric Moylan. Nice to see you Ric. It's been an amazing day. Good day, great day. Great day. Fantastic. So we've been at Rick's Reset Summit 2025 here at the wonderful Lowry Hotel in Manchester. Tell us what Reset is all about, Rick, and why you started it, why you're now in the second year, and what's it all about, what you're trying to achieve with it?

0:46It was all based on conversations. We have conversations, yourself, as I do, with busy professionals and busy people, And there was common themes appearing all the time, which would relate around stress, burnout, overwhelm, working too hard, never switching off. And I mentioned it in the summit today. My dad mentioned that when he was good at fixing things as an engineer, he needed the right toolkit, he needed the tools for the job. And in those conversations with people, I started, I wanted to go deeper. And what I realised is that emotionally and from a hormonal level, from a deep internal level, people were really struggling and they didn't have the right toolkit to call on.

1:37They were one email away from bursting into tears or exploding at a colleague or a friend or a family member. so I thought you know actually rather than hearing all this stuff all the time and knowing that I can help doing nothing let's let's let's provide a solution and that's what reset summit is but to simplify it it's about creating time for yourself creating space for yourself and then looking inward and then and then having the tools to to be able to not just survive but thrive Absolutely, and we've had some incredible speakers. Yep, you self-included. Oh, stop it. There we go, there we go.

2:15No, a real pleasure to be able to be on the stage with so many inspiring individuals, you know, and we had Diane Edwards, MBE. Yeah. Oh gosh, we had Aaron Hill. We've had so many people, haven't we, that have done a really phenomenal job. And what stood out for me was that people are people. Yep. And it doesn't matter where you are in your journey, but we're all quite vulnerable. We all have our gremlins. Human. Human to human contact. And it's been so great being in the room, in the room with, you know, like-minded people. Definitely. Who all want to grow and step up. And we are, this is the introduction to, the reintroduction of your episode on Brave Bold Brilliant that we actually did last year.

3:00So we're re-releasing it because we want to make sure we get the maximum reach really for all the you know your journey and and hence us being here today but what's next for reset Rick that's what I'm interested in what's coming next I think I think you said this is our second our second time I think we've been a lot clearer on who we are what we do most importantly how we can help people so what's next is is to spread the word is to spread the journey is to go bigger better be braver be bold so yeah it's been an amazing day an amazing venue at the Lowry we're absolutely looking to go again do more of the stuff that's been really really helpful learn grow and and get bigger and better and yeah try and impact more people because I don't think the pressures of life are going away I don't think stress deadlines I don't think targets at work are going away anytime soon so I think it's really important to get that message out there and to give people the tools as I say to not only be able to cope but be able to thrive amazing so tune into the episode you're about to listen to now the wonderful Rick Moylan it's all about resetting and thriving thank you Rick thank you Welcome to Braveheart Brilliant Podcast.

4:24I'm here today with Rick Moylan. Nice to see you, Rick. Leading performance coach. Yeah, that's me. It's great to be here. Thank you for having me on, Jeanette. And, you know, hello to everyone listening, watching. Fantastic. Yes, because you might be watching this on YouTube. You might be listening to it on the podcast. So whatever you're doing, check this out because Rick has got loads of value that we're going to be getting into and sharing. And from one fellow Mancunian to another, Rick, I think your accent is stronger than mine. Yeah, yeah. I think we've just sort of had this conversation before recording, haven't we?

4:57You know, we both travel a lot and wherever we go in the world, it's like, you know, great to meet you. Whereabouts in Manchester are you from? You know, so there's no I can't be covert with it, I'm afraid. Yeah. Proud Mancunian. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, Rick, how did you get into becoming like a leading performance coach? What was your journey? Because you've worked with some incredible people and we're going to talk about that and how you've shifted into business as well. But how did life start for you, Rick? How did you get into it in the first place? I think I think that's like, you know, probably quite a few, quite a few youngsters.

5:33I just loved sport, if I'm honest. And I know I just wanted to I wanted to play sport. But my parents actively encouraged it. It was a way of channeling focus, keeping healthy, keeping fit, and keeping me out of mischief as well. There's no question about that. And I just loved it. So all through school and early college years, all I wanted to do was play sport. and in particular football, I did pretty good with it, played at a decent level, but probably perhaps could have gone further and arguably could have gone to a higher level, which many years later probably we might get into why I kind of do what I do now.

6:27But yeah, I just loved sport. I still do. and so I went to, you know, when it became clear that I wasn't going to be a professional footballer which is what I really, really wanted to do I wanted to still be involved in the boards of sport the challenge, the competitiveness so I went and got some qualifications and I wanted to be the people stood on the sidelines in their track suits and getting involved that way So it was very much, it was always passion that took me to sport. I realised many, many years later, the passion was for people and helping people. But originally it was, yeah, I wanted to be a sports person, an athlete.

7:18That didn't happen. So I kind of navigated my way into it somehow. I was always going to be involved in sport one way or the other. Yeah, fantastic. And, you know, I think you're right. If you can find something you're passionate about, you deeply care about, then they say, oh, you never work a day in your life. I'm not 100 % sure that's the case. But the theory, you know, absolutely. If you can merge your passion with your profession, well, then that's a really good place to be, I think. And let's just go back a little bit, Rick. So when you were, you know, you wanted really to first choice was to make it as a professional footballer.

7:52When that didn't happen, how did you kind of get over that? Was it was it was a particular event that meant that was that you didn't make it or was it a gradual thing that you kind of realized, OK, this is maybe isn't going to be the journey that I'm on. And how did you navigate through that? Because I want us to talk about mindset and the connection there as well. But for you personally, you know, not everything always goes right in life. We don't always achieve what we want, do we? But that must have been quite a difficult thing for you at quite a young age. So just talk us about that a little bit.

8:24Yeah, I think with a lot of youngsters, they kind of have, like you say, that pivotal moment where somebody will say something to them or will release them from a club or something like that. And that's kind of it. There's that moment of realisation, almost like the axe drops. And it wasn't like that for me. It was very much more of a gradual thing. And I was very, you know, was very competitive and, you know, I was about to say then believed I was good enough. Actually, that was the problem. I actually outwardly would tell people I believed I was good enough, but inwardly I had a huge lack of self-confidence, a huge lack of self-belief with my own ability, and that would hamper my performances.

9:13so it was very much like you said it was very much a creep thing I kind of clung on to it for longer than than perhaps I could or should have done but there wasn't a pivotal a pivotal moment with it and I kind of just then buried it and just moved on I was like you know I'm gonna work in sport I'll go and get qualified blahdy blahdy blah I'm sure we'll delve into this a little bit later but I it was very much in the world of exercise physiology and sports science that I originally got into sport which was data-based years later I then realized that I had more to offer I'm wanted to impact not only athletes more because what I realized was a lot of their performance was was mental in terms of mindset based and mental mental performance but I kind of realized that then I was also projecting and and gravitating to myself from my younger life as well um that actually um that there were uh performance things in terms of confidence self-esteem I'd never dealt with that I'd just shoved away that were were what held me back in sport and and yeah when I got even into my 20s as I started to coach people I thought hang on this is me I'm talking to here yeah wow so what did that feel like when you kind of had that revelation a bit of a revelation I suppose you're going oh my gosh actually yeah I'm recognizing some of this in my younger self what what did you think what was the what was the passing through your mind at that point there was a huge kind of um big sort of wake up moment with it yeah and and then you kind of go through this thing of almost pushing back and and that was kind of, yeah, you know, I knew it was, I knew that the athletes I was working with that perhaps lacked a bit of self-confidence or lacked a little bit of, you know, self-belief and so forth like that.

11:10I knew that that was me as well, but then I'd kind of pushed back just like the athletes were, sort of ego kicked in. I was like, no, hang on. So I was battling against myself, but eventually you get to a place of acceptance because you get relief with it you think actually I the weight's been lifted off my shoulders now um and I can get to now working on doing something about it I can get to now working on um you know an acceptance once you've got acceptance I always say to my clients you have to have understanding you have to have acceptance when you've got those two things in place you can then start to create change so um And after a bit of pushback, there was a lot of relief, but then the work started.

11:55So there we go. And I wonder, do you think it's made you a better coach because you've kind of been through it yourself and you can say, I get this. I've been there. You know, I know in my younger self that I, you know, I didn't always have the as much self-belief as I should have. Do you think it's helped you with your clients to be able to sort of empathise with them more? Yeah, I think so. I think walking the path is really important or even attempting to walk the path is really, really important. I also think, you know, from a client perspective, it shows them that you're human, that you're vulnerable.

12:31It's something that they can build trust and rapport with. in that yeah you know coaching for me and Matt going off sideways here so apologies for it but somebody said to me years ago it's never left me coaching's like putting salt on your food and and too much salt spoils spoils the taste and and I think with coaching when you're working with athletes it's really important to and and you know athletes people anybody it's really important to to give them understanding teach them the theories and teach them the methods of Carl Jung or whoever but actually I think often the big difference comes from when you can also say hey you know I'm I'm human as well I'm not perfect uh here's an instance that I've been through and and this is what happened and this is how I was able to um you know adapt overcome move forward grow from it I think when you've got that in place um it really creates that rapport So, yeah, I think it makes you being vulnerable, being open, showing that you're not perfect, far from perfect.

13:34Yeah, it makes you a better coach and hopefully a better person as well. Yeah, I always say we're all perfectly imperfect as human beings, aren't we? You know, isn't that the joy? It'd be boring if we're all the same, right? So, yeah, and perfection, right? So let's talk about this whole mindset of being an elite athlete. so I love there's a phrase on your LinkedIn that says look think and feel like an elite athlete so so what what is that what does that look think and feel like as an elite athlete then um well if I just go on the look to start with you know there's a correlation usually between being athletically capable athletically a high performer you know being fit fast strong being able to form this sport or the physical requirements that are being asked of you.

14:26It's usually a correlation between being pretty good at that and then your body looking quite good. Yeah. You know, that's kind of, you know, how it sort of goes really. They have to live a certain lifestyle around that, sleep, sacrifice. I would say it's about what you're prepared to give up, nutrition, all that kind of stuff. but the big thing there is that elite performers whether that's in sport or weekend warrior they don't just wake up and be in good shape they have to work hard to look the way that they do and so that's the messaging behind it is that a lot of the times I've had messages of people saying a certain athlete looks fantastic and I say, well, you can look like that as well.

15:14But now I get it, they don't often have jobs and they've got a big support team and all that. But any one of us can look like an elite athlete. Any one of us can, bearing in mind our life challenges and so forth, but it's about doing the necessary steps. It's about doing the necessary work. It's about, as I say, giving up and being prepared to sacrifice the things that athletes often have to do, you know, in terms of their social life and whatnot like that. There's a common misconception a lot of people said to me over the years, it must be great training athletes because they love training. And I'm like, do they?

16:00More often than not, they don't, but they love winning. They love being competitive. they love the rewards that that come from the the process let's say um they're often connected to a vision which is something that i talk about a lot i've worked a lot with professional boxers and they'll be connected with that visual piece of holding their belt up or that or you know audio piece of hearing their name called out or that kinesthetic piece of feeling that winning punch lunchland let's say they don't enjoy the process they just they just do it anyway um because that vision uh overrides the requirement for enjoyment yeah sorry no no that's great that's great and i was just going to say actually because obviously you mentioned that you work with a lot of a lot of um pro boxers and you've worked with ricky hatton haven't you i was reading on your your bio what was it like working with ricky yeah i was i was head of hatton promotions and hatton team Hatton for about eight years.

17:03And sadly for me, it was more towards the very end for Ricky. And I'm still involved with him now. I was speaking to him last week and his manager, they're still good friends of mine. They know that Ricky's a trainer now. He still comes to me for advice and guidance as and when's needed. So whilst formally I'm not there anymore, we're still very much friends. and have been for 15 years now. But in terms of my actual work with him, it was much more towards the end, really.

17:42But my biggest regard of love to have been there in the really, really, really peak eras, let's say, when he was at the absolute top of his game, I still saw enough. I saw enough. And, you know, Ricky, he won't mind me saying he's obviously kind of, you know, he's the joker of the pack, let's say, and he lives his life his way and all that kind of stuff, lives his life on his terms. But I saw enough being around him even, you know, more towards the end of his career that when it came to, he will laugh and joke and perhaps, you know, perhaps enjoy his social life, let's say, and whatnot like that.

18:26But then when it comes to training, when he had that day in mind, when he, I call that a deadline mindset. And Ricky was the perfect example of that. When he had that day in mind, he was absolutely all business. And he was insanely dedicated, super fit. And, you know, there was enormous lessons in that. And I think people forget that. People forget just how good he was. People forget just how super fit he was. And yeah, that was, for a younger man, a younger coach at the time, that was really, really inspiring to see. He could absolutely flick that switch between living his life, loving his life, to when he had that fight to train for, bang.

19:20he was insanely dedicated so yeah I loved my time, I was with him for 8 years and once he then retired my primary role was to look after all of the boxing stable of Hatton Promotions Anthony Crawler, Scott Quigg, Martin Murray, Denton Vassell who all went on and more to become champions So let's take a quick break from Rick Moylan's incredible interview. So just breathe, reset, so that we're able to go forward and grow. So if you want to unleash your potential by being brave, bold and brilliant, the Reset Summit is such a great way to do it. So click on the link in the show notes and you're going to get a discount off the ticket price for next year's Reset Summit.

20:14Let's get back to the episode.

20:19Yeah, amazing. And like you say, there's a life cycle, isn't there, to a sports, you know, an athlete, whichever the sport is. There's kind of, you know, getting into that winning pole position, winning gold or whatever it might be. And then there's staying there, presumably for a period of time, however long that may be. And then there's coming out the other side. And I would imagine that the coming back to mindset again, And the mindset is probably different at those different phases. So from your experience of sort of like you explained there with Ricky, you was probably more towards the tail end of his kind of professional boxing career.

20:59But you'll have worked with people at the start of their careers and on the upward and the sort of the, you know, the exit path. What's what's the key for the mindset of those different stages? just about to make it, maintain it, and then accept that, you know, your time is probably right to retire or do something different? Yeah, I think I'll give you a random example, a random saying that I think fits. An old friend of mine, an old client of mine that I work with, he made a lot of money out of restaurants. He was very successful and out of pizza restaurants. and he was super successful and he had, as I say, all these restaurants all over and made a lot of money.

21:45And I remember saying to him, you know, how do you keep on it? How do you keep turning up every day, delivering, being the best you can? It was just a random conversation. And he said to me, Rick, you're only as good as your last pizza and you're only as good as your next pizza. And I kind of, it never left me that. And I think to take it then back to a sporting sense, and I know that this great man has crossed over and done talks on leadership and business and so forth, but Sir Alex Ferguson, I think, was the great one for that. And that was, you know, be super ambitious, focus on what it is you want to achieve, focus on what it is that you're aiming to do, enjoy it briefly while it's there, But then remember that when it's done, it's done and it's on to the next challenge.

22:40And for me, that often would, you know, if you look at people who would do well, a key characteristic was they were able to really focus on what it is they wanted to achieve. Then when they achieved it, they would quickly move on to the next target, the next goal. They would briefly enjoy it, you know, well done, a little pat on the back. but then it was okay what's next um so you know at the beginning of somebody's career they would often have targets that they wanted to achieve they would achieve them and then some would perhaps stay too long in that moment uh without realizing that they're already sort of diminishing uh whereas others you know not many but some and this is perhaps sometimes where i would be involved would then work with them on we've achieved this goal we've achieved this target but what's next because like you've rightly said becoming a champion or successful in anything is really difficult helps having that goal that vision but then when you get there it's really difficult to maintain it and then perhaps even climb to the next summit and then climb to the next summit so I think having that ability is is one of the you know the ability to go okay that was great what's next is is key for people not not everybody's able to do it yeah and I think as you're talking I was thinking about you know it translates to business as well or whatever whatever field you're in you know I see a lot with the business leaders that I advise and sometimes that's a business owner that's looking to sell their business and to exit and so often you say how did it feel on the day that you actually sold your business I interviewed Juliet Barrett who's of Grenade, co-founder of Grenade, who you may well know, actually, in that sort of sports nutrition.

24:28And she just said, it was so, I was lost. You know, you think it's going to be this massive event in their situation, her and Al, they sold it for 200 million, you know, and they started it from nothing. So, I mean, huge achievement. But I think it's around having that purpose, isn't it? You know, if you're going to move on, maybe your professional boxing career has come to a natural end. But what next? You need a purpose. You've got to get a reason to get out of bed in the morning, right um and and i think that's that that's really sound advice around saying okay great celebrate the wins but then get focused on what next yeah absolutely it's often so many people that we have visualized and dreamt of that lottery win and that lottery win will will change their life and save their life and it and it doesn't does it because like you say that we've got to have purpose we've got to have a challenge and and um i think when we're looking at characteristics of high performance, having purpose, challenge, those two things are in there.

25:26And being able to repeat, I suppose, is the message that I was kind of trying to say there, is that I think when you're early in your career, you can look at somebody who you perceive is successful, who's sat at the top of the tree, and so you strive towards that. Actually, when you get there, you realise there's a whole bunch of challenges, and one of them is staying there and the next one is where do you go from there so yeah fantastic and you know when you work with people obviously you work with a lot of very famous names in the world of sports and high performance but you also work with everyday folk as well presumably that just want to really live a healthier more fit life so obviously in some cases we know all the things that we should be doing right eating better sleep not drinking so much you know cutting out processed foods, training, all of this kind of stuff.

26:20But so many people don't do it, do they? And we're not trying to split the atom. Yeah. So what are the blockers when you're working with everyday people that maybe aren't saying I want to win gold at the Olympics, but they are saying I want to be a better version of myself? What are some of the blockers that really stop people from living a healthy life, do you think? You know, you're absolutely right, by the way. I always say when I'm asked, I work with people. that's that's what I do work with people um I think I think it's a deep it's a deep question thank you for that I think you know there's financial issues for some people it can be quite expensive to live a life I think I think everybody now is is time starved and that's a huge thing that that that I see I work like you say like yourself with a lot of people that work working business at all levels.

27:14One thing that's really, really common with everybody I tend to speak to now, I say, hey, great to meet you. How's life? Yeah, great. What is it you do? They tell me what to do for a living and say, so how's work going? Oh, busy. Everybody's busy. Everybody's busy. But we then could argue and flip that, that screen times are higher than they've ever been. so there's a multiple and multitude of challenges, one of my favourite sayings is that today's solutions have become tomorrow's problems and I think people know what they should be doing but then it's so easy just to go on your phone and click for delivery we're at the point now where we don't even go and collect our own takeaway anymore so with that in mind then environment life life, social challenges, connecting to the rewards.

28:11It's very, very common that I perhaps, you know, had a period of time like this myself, you think you're going to be bulletproof for life as well. So when you're at a certain age demographic, perhaps, or whatever, you kind of think, you know, I'm young, I'm healthy, or I'm young, I'm fit. Then before you know what your back goes, or, you know, or a health, you know, God forbid, a health challenge comes your way. I don't think it's easy to be super healthy. But then that said, in all of what I've just said, I do think more people are becoming health conscious now. I do think more people are becoming mindful of alcohol intake.

28:54They are becoming more mindful of getting up on a weekend and going to park run if they're able to, either physically or with their lifestyle or life demographics, family, all that kind of stuff. So I think it's challenging. It's very challenging. I also think sometimes, and this is where I come in, I am known to be a little bit to the point with this. But going back to that screen time as well, I also think we create stories in our own head. We create stories of why we can or can't do something. And I think one of my roles as a coach is that accountability. piece to sometimes I'm going to be mindful of my language here on the podcast but it's to sometimes call BS on the stories that you're telling yourself and actually to hold a mirror up and say well actually you were saying we haven't got time let's look at how we spend our time so there's a multitude of challenges and I suppose athletes that they're some might say unlucky to get to work with me but you know I would hope that they would say lucky because they've got support coaching accountability I think um people are also now becoming more mindful of the role of a coach and why you know an everyday person would gain value in coaching as well yeah I think you're spot on you know I mean the accountability is a massive one I think you know show up and I want to talk about habits actually because I think willpower is only going to get you so far right because sometimes you don't feel like it do you let's face it it's raining in the morning it's dark do you really want to go out for a run probably not but if that's what you do it becomes part of your identity and you're more likely to do it but I think one of the things that um I love I love Tony Robbins right I've got a bit of a thing for Tony I you know full disclosure yeah um but there's a few things that he says around you're you're not going to take action until your need becomes a must you know because we'll say oh I should go to the gym I should do this I should spend more time I should spend less time you know but actually it's just talk right it's noise and it's not until you really feel that you absolutely have to do something whether it's a health reason or you I don't know you need to raise money for someone that's sick in the family you know but whatever the motivation is it all of a sudden that becomes a must it changes it changes the the dialogue completely doesn't it um but also like the the habits good habits versus bad habits can we just talk about the value of almost repetition repetition repetition so that you're training your brain aren't you at the same time if you're getting into good habits of routine so can we talk about that and what are some of the pieces of advice tricks and tips that you could give to someone that's maybe they want to get fit they know they need to but they're struggling with the continuity they'll join a gym in January then by March they've given up right um so so just talk about that area and how how you help people with that yeah um they were there's two things there that sort of spring spring to mind the first one is um I remember when I was I was lucky enough and I've been lucky enough to spend quite a bit of time around members of the special forces which was which has been a fascinating and remains fascinating for me which somehow I was really really interested in and and from being from being young and anyway I'm talking with a very very senior member of the special forces this is right at the beginning when i first met them and i remember saying to him i really i'm fascinated in high performance physical mental i want to be the you know best i can be and teach to others teach me how you live that life he said great rick go and get pen so i was like great great it was from there with me pen in my notebook he says are you ready i said yeah yeah yeah he says write this down i said okay he said we do the basics comma well and I was like oh right so so first off I think in a world of shiny objects it's about remembering that actually it is about putting one foot in front of the other on the days when we don't feel like it on the days when it's cold wet dark uh when we're tired all those kind of things but then then I get it's really really difficult and it's really really difficult to connect to that.

33:16So the one piece of advice that I give all my clients is to have an event to work towards. And I've seen this firsthand because if you've got an event that you are working towards, it puts a date in the diary straight away that you can reverse engineer back from. It creates that deadline mindset that I talk about. But if I highly encourage people to fundraise for it as well. Now, again, times are hard. I understand that financially, you know, it's a tough, it's a tough gig out there at the minute. I'm not on about raising hundreds of thousands of pounds. If any money raised is valuable, not only for the charity, but also for yourself.

34:01And I've seen this, I fundraise for newborn intensive care unit at Royal Manchester Children's Hospital. And I do this by taking absolute beginners through a journey of a training camp and getting towards a boxing match. We, you know, fingers crossed, we're very diligent, we keep it very safe and so forth like that. But I've seen the change, the massive lifestyle change in people, not just in the training camp and to get to the boxing night, but then beyond that, because they've had that day to train towards, because they've had that goal to train towards, because most of the people who participate in our boxing match, raising money for newborn intensive care unit, Royal Manchester Children's Hospital, are parents who've had children on that ward.

34:51So they're super connected to the cause. There's that deep emotional connection. So I know that on that Monday night or that Saturday morning or whenever it is, they don't want to come training. Their arms are sore, they're aching, they're bruised. But that cause of what they're doing it for, is so, so deep that if they raise£10 for that charity, it's£10 that will make a difference. So it's great for the charity, but then it's also giving them purpose, cause. It's going beyond motivation. So if I could give anybody one piece of advice, it is find an event to train for. If you'll make friends, you'll go to depths of yourself that you didn't know were there, good and bad, but if you're connected, and particularly with the fundraising element, if you're really connected to it, you will turn up, you will give it your all, even on the days when you don't want to.

35:52Amazing. And I know the fundraising you've done has, I mean, you've already raised over£450 ,000, right? Which is a phenomenal, phenomenal amount of money. And that comes from a place of a very personal cause for you, doesn't it? Do you want to just talk a bit about that, Rick, as well, if you don't mind, just to bring it to life? Because I think that probably encapsulates what you've just described, right? But from your own perspective, is what's driven you to really raise that amazing amount of money for the intensive care unit for the newborns? Yeah, thank you. So my niece, Sophia Rose. She was born at another hospital and my sister's daughter.

36:36And sadly, there was some complications and she was transferred to newborn intensive care at St. Mary's or Royal Manchester Children's Hospital, where I was born, where my sister was born, you know, so the sort of a family link there anyway. But yeah, sadly, after 12 days, Sophia passed away, which was extremely difficult for, you know, of course, for my sister and her husband. But for all of us as a family, it was a very, very, very tough time. And, yeah, you know, the newborn intensive care unit is a fascinating place because it's a place that many people don't even really know exists. And it's only when you do know it exists that you're in serious trouble.