Matthew Walker On Balancing Creative Passion With Financial Freedom

21:39Matthew Walker:It's a combination of all three, if I'm honest. So, for example, this weekend I'm hosting a sporting event. So I sat down at the beginning of this week and I drafted a script with an opener. And then once I've got that opener in place, because that's the important part, because that's where you can win over or lose an audience straight away, is you're opening 30 seconds. they'll switch off or they'll listen. If they switch off, you're in trouble. So that opening section is really important. And from there on in, if it's someone I'm interviewing, it's like you said, it's just researching. It's researching them, but it's going below the surface because there's so much information online, but it's finding the small threads and the small nuggets that you can pull on during an interview.

22:24Matthew Walker:And I always try and find things that if it's someone I'm interviewing, they haven't talked about before. And then there was a third example. What did you say? What's the third example?

22:33Jeannette:I think I'd said about you remembering your opening line or the structure of what you're going to kind of start with, which I think you kind of covered that, grabbing that attention. Yeah.

22:45Matthew Walker:Yeah, structure, though, is really important. Again, this may sound a little bit daft, but if I'm hosting an event, if I can see the event in my head before I've even done it, so if I can top and tail it, in my own head backstage, fine, not a problem. Because if something goes wrong, particularly live, I've got to fill. So I have to talk about something or I have to find a way of filling. But if I know the structure of the day or the event and I know what's coming next, then I can fill accordingly. If I just went on stage and had no idea where it was going to end, that would fill me with dread as well.

23:24Matthew Walker:So it's preparation, yeah.

23:27Jeannette:And you talked about things going wrong, Matthew. Can you share with us any examples where it's been, oh my God, it's just been, I can't believe this is happening and I've got to dig out and I've got to fill or I've got to recover or something happened in the audience that could have really thrown you off track because we can't control everything. We can plan, plan, plan. And I agree with you. But then there are certain things that just happen, just happen. You've got to deal with it. So can you give any examples of times when you've had to do that?

24:00Matthew Walker:uh i can't think of a specific example if i'm honest off the top of my head but weirdly i quite like those moments because if uh if you suddenly have to you suddenly have to fill that's where it's that's where it's fun it's it wakes you up very quickly if you suddenly have to uh fill for two minutes you've got someone in your ear and they say we're not live okay here's an example. I was interviewing someone. I was UK based. I was working on a sporting event recently. I was UK based. And the person I was interviewing was over in Abu Dhabi, I think it was, somewhere like that. And we were due to go to an interview, but their schedule was very tight.

24:41Matthew Walker:They were due to go live on television a few minutes later. So we had a short window and I had my producer in my ear and they just said, hold for 30 seconds. So we were 30 seconds late on the interview. So I just had 30 seconds to fill doesn't sound long but it can be a lifetime but again fortunately this is preparation uh i knew the subject i was talking about i knew it inside out so i just i just switched tact slightly and i discussed something uh for 30 seconds and then i got the countdown in my ear and we went live so again it's it's preparation really yeah just to know what you're talking about

25:18Jeannette:it's a lot of pressure in the moment though isn't it matthew that you have to be able to kind of pivot adapt and kind of recalibrate and you know but i guess to your point this is a lifetime of preparation all these different situations one prepare for the topic and the event that you're talking about but actually all those years and years of being exposed to this so that then it

25:39Matthew Walker:kind of kicks in right when you need it yeah yeah yeah exactly and you do it's like anything like

25:46Jeannette:you just you pick up sorry Matthew go on no I was just saying it's like anything in life isn't it

25:53Matthew Walker:you know you learn as you go along the more you do something you pick up I'm not just presenting anything your line of work you just learn as you go along don't you and then you layer on top of that and before you know it you've got a wealth of knowledge to support you yeah I used to have a

26:06Jeannette:very a very tough boss when I was at two I was the MD of the emerging markets and the group CEO was Peter Long. He's a bit of a legend in the industry. But he was fearsome. He was fearsome as a boss. I mean, I always had a great experience with him, but he was frightening, this guy. Very sort of alpha male, quite traditional. You know, this is back in the day. But he was notorious because you'd have your slot to go in and present your strategy or your investment case or whatever it may be. You might have a half hour, and you'd go in armed with your presentation deck and all this kind of stuff.

26:40Jeannette:And then so many times, you'd walk in the room, and you think you've got half an hour and you'd say, do you know, you've got 10 minutes and you'd have to be able to recalibrate, keep calm, know what the key messages were, you know, so you're right. You start to preempt this stuff. And then actually, whenever I would do a presentation in a business context, I'd make sure that the presentation deck is really short and punchy up front. And then we've got an appendix if we've got time for the detail, because it used to be a nightmare. I mean, you'd see grown men like practically in tears, like by going on.

27:14Jeannette:I'll be like, okay. And I would also then, what I used to do, Matthew, I used to ask. And now whenever I have a meeting with them, I always say, oh, how long have we got? You know, have we got the time that we've said or do we need to kind of adapt? And it came from that. It came from that experience of always being like, oh, my God, I've got to be able to get through this really fast and change lanes. Yeah. and that can sometimes be harder if you've got a lot of content stripping it down in the moment can actually be a lot harder than filling so they're similar but they are they're different skill sets uh in their own right and have you had to do that matthew sometimes with different events

27:53Matthew Walker:that you've done uh oh yeah quite often yeah quite often but i always think it's i'd always have i'd rather have more material and strip than have less and have to fill even though i don't mind filling I'd rather have more material to strip down because then if you strip that content down, you can then if you need to, you can reuse it to fill later on.

28:16Jeannette:Yeah, yeah. And Matthew, you've interviewed some really, really interesting characters, haven't you, from the world of sports and, you know, Paula Radcliffe or all these amazing, amazing, amazing people. Who are the standout guests that you've had the privilege to interview, would you say? Oh, gosh.

28:36Matthew Walker:I have been very lucky over the years, I must say. I've interviewed some wonderful people. Paula's probably up there, actually, for me. She was quite extraordinary, really. She didn't feel like a celebrity or a world-class athlete. She's a really good mum. She had her kids there. It was at Carfest, which is Chris Evans' festival. just really down to earth, really down to earth and just a joy to interview and to possibly Paula actually she was great, really great and actually I think with everyone I've interviewed I've been very lucky I've never interviewed anyone that was really difficult where it's like pulling teeth I've never really had that

29:24Jeannette:Well that's fortunate Yeah, we're going to find someone really difficult for you Matthew you just to see if we can throw you off off this cool kind of presenter that you absolutely are

29:38Matthew Walker:yeah i think they're lucky and it's credit to the people i've interviewed because they're yeah nine times out of ten they've been lovely and really accommodating i'm really happy to chat

29:45Jeannette:yeah well we actually met through rick moylan right at reset summit earlier this year that's how we we first kind of got introduced to each other and um we had diane edwards um there as well we were lucky to have diane with us speaking from the stage and i actually interviewed diane for the podcast but i know you interviewed diane as well and and with with someone like diane she's got a very kind of personal story around her journey hasn't she um as well which is quite emotional so so i don't know when you interviewed diane and and maybe some of the other people to bring out that human side and like you say maybe it's not just about the sport or the profession it's it's kind of the person behind that i think is is where often the more interesting areas to bring out in in a conversation isn't it yeah i completely agree completely agree and and and matthew you know from from your point of view you you've had you've had lots of um i guess inspiring people that you've been around either that you've interviewed um you know you were talking about having really supportive parents and you know your cousins who you're very close to but you know how how important is sort of mentors coaches outside of the people you've already mentioned being for you in your career you know who who sort of inspires you who's helped you who who've you looked up to that has maybe helped you on your journey because I think sometimes it can be very lonely when we're building a you know our kind of career path and what have you and having mentors coaches people to inspire us so how how important has that been for you and are there any standout people that have helped you on your way?

31:29Matthew Walker:Countless, countless people. I mean, if I go back to when I was young, I had a wonderful, wonderful drama teacher called Diane Lamont and she really pushed us and funnily enough, her motto was fail to prepare, prepare to fail and she was wonderful. She cared, she cared about us and she wanted us to thrive and grow and succeed and I'm so grateful to her even now and I still some of the things she taught me as an 11 year old I still do now on my scripts I'll still mark them in a similar way as I did with her but also I've never had a mentor specifically but by the same token I have mentors all around me at the same time you talked about Rick earlier Rick Moylan and I know that I could go to Rick I trust him, I trust his judgment.

32:18Matthew Walker:And we recognize something in one another, whether it's our work ethic, whatever it is. We just we work well together. And I know I could always rely on Rick. He's dependable. He's trustworthy. So I'd always go to him for advice. I have a really good network of friends. My friend Paul, I was on the phone to before we spoke today. And if it's investing or anything business related, I'll go to him. Another dear friend of mine, Graham, if it's relationships or anything like that, I'll go to him. so I don't have anyone specifically who I would say is a mentor but I do have good people around me and I'm sure you're the same we tend to attract people that we we recognize something in you and I talking today because we recognize something in each other when we met there was a connection does that make sense?

33:02Jeannette:Yeah that definitely does make sense and you're right I think you know I think you need different people in your life at different times as well and some people will be there on the journey with you for a very very long time and other people it might be that you need something very specific and you know maybe you're going into a new business or you know you're you're jumping out of one career into maybe a second or third phase of your career so I think that what you described there Matthew is having almost like a collection a collection of mentors around you that you can lean on for different reasons is is so important isn't it

33:37Matthew Walker:it's so important yeah and I've never thought you know I've never sat down and thought right I need a mentor i've got to go find one i think you just naturally find you just if you surround yourself with good people you'll always have mentors and in the same way yeah i hope anyway those that i rely on rely on me as well it's two-way street yeah very much so and and you know i think it's

34:00Jeannette:interesting isn't it because you're very much out there publicly you know you're you're in the firing line shall we say to a certain degree um and some people will absolutely love you and other people maybe you're not quite their cup of tea Matthew maybe just saying yeah do you ever have yeah do you ever have negative kind of feedback or people that can be a bit little quite vicious especially with social media because I think there's a lot of pressure in today's world where, you know, people will judge, won't they? People will judge you anyway, whether you like it or not. But for you, being so publicly out there, you know, how do you deal with that?

34:44Jeannette:Do you ever get that kind of negative feedback, sometimes trolls, nastiness that can come through in some places, or has that not been a problem for you so far?

34:55Matthew Walker:Truthfully, it's not been a problem for me, mainly because, Jeanette, if I'm brutally honest with you, I don't use social media that much. not through choice. I just, I don't know. I just, I just don't use it that much. But on your point about you can't please everybody, you can't, you know, if I host an event or I film something, whether it's a documentary or whatever it is, but let's use a live audience as an example. You can't get a hundred percent of the audience on board. You just can't. And if someone can, I'd love to know the secret. But if you can get 85 % of them on board it's a game of percentages if you can engage 85 of the audience then you've won the battle but you can never please everybody you just can't it so then it becomes yeah it's a

35:41Jeannette:game of percentages yeah no and that's it i think also you know when i don't know if this comes with a little bit of age um you know certainly i think when i when i look back at my younger self in business you know i was i was definitely a people pleaser and i still am to a certain degree you know I think fundamentally as humans we want to be liked and loved and all of that kind of stuff and for me probably being the youngest of three it was like hey look at me give me some attention you know so I would say yes to like pretty much anything and I struggled to say no but I used to worry about what people think you know what people say as I've got older I care less it's not that I don't pay respect to people but I care less than I used to about what people think and say about me But how has that journey for you been in terms of just being kind of comfortable in your own skin and accepting that people don't like you?

36:33Jeannette:That's kind of all right. You know, that's fine.

36:36Matthew Walker:Yeah, it just kind of is. And maybe similar to yours. I think naturally I am a people pleaser. And when I was younger, yes, you're right. I used to say I would say yes to everything, particularly work wise. but I think the lesson that I've learned as you get older it's actually what you say no to that keeps you on track because if you say yes to everything sometimes you end up doing things that you don't really want to do and if you have a goal that you want to reach sometimes you just have to say no to things and that's fine it's fine to say no to things yeah and I think actually by

37:11Jeannette:saying no you're you're that you're saying yes to something else aren't you so and it gives you that focus as you were saying before focus yeah great so so Matthew just coming to some just coming to some final final questions if I may um you know you've you've obviously given us some great advice and and how to to kind of you know put yourself out to the world and and some of the lessons and things that you've you've really learned from yourself through through your your professional life is there any standout advice that you've had that you've received that has really helped you apart from you know the advice that you you learned from your as an 11 year old Matthew with your lovely drama teacher but is there any other kind of stuff that has really helped you over the years in terms of advice that you've received yeah I mean so so many

38:02Matthew Walker:um but the one that stands out as soon as you said this uh it was my friend Graham actually who I mentioned earlier and we were just talking a few years ago and he said be ready it's the best piece of advice I think anyone's ever given me just be ready whatever that looks like for you in in life in business in work whatever it is just be ready for me in work that means having my showreel up to date it means having my website up to date it means that when someone comes knocking and says can you do this I can say yes I can here it is rather than going, leave it with me for a few days and then panicking and frantically running around trying to figure out how to do it.

38:43Matthew Walker:Just be ready. If you're an athlete, that means doing the hard yards in the gym even when you don't have a fight coming up. Do you know what I mean? Just be ready so that when opportunity knocks, you're just ready to take it.

38:57Jeannette:Yeah, don't get ready, be ready. I love that actually because it's super simple but there's a lot to that.

39:03Matthew Walker:yeah absolutely yeah there is there is and because there are opportunities everywhere right there are

39:10Jeannette:opportunities everywhere and and i think sometimes you never know it's like us meeting at the reset summit you never know who's going to be in the room right and you never know where a conversation might happen or there might be a business a business deal to to kind of jump into or whatever it is and i think as a part of being ready matthew is is kind of having that inner confidence and ability and strength to be able to recognize an opportunity and to be able to confidently navigate a conversation that might come out of the blue as well so there's the practical stuff but I think there's also the inner kind of confidence isn't there that that allows you to respond in the moment yeah exactly exactly how do you keep yourself in good shape Matthew you both physically mentally you know because you have a lot of pressure you're moving all over the world at different times how do you how do you keep your yourself um fit and well mentally and

40:08Matthew Walker:physically uh i run a lot i run an awful lot i try and run every day but if i'm being brutally honest i travel an awful lot with work uh both uk and abroad and if i'm being brutally honest i struggle with the consistency of physical fitness. And I just haven't figured out that if I'm home, my routine is great. I get up, I run, I breakfast, and then I get on with the day. If I'm abroad, or if I'm traveling with work, it's just so much harder to get into a routine. And I just haven't found the secret sauce, which is why I rely on running, I guess, because you can run anywhere. If you don't have a gym, it doesn't matter.

40:52Matthew Walker:You can run. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, you can run. So running is my go-to for both physical and mental fitness, I guess.

41:03Jeannette:Yeah, and it's so important, isn't it? Because I think when you have got a big job, putting your own oxygen mask on first, whatever that looks like. I agree with you. Physical exercise, it de-stresses me, it gets me focused, whatever's going on in the world. And if I don't do it, I notice the difference in myself. but for me it's as much about mental as the physical side of it yeah very much so very much

41:29Matthew Walker:so uh and funny love yesterday yesterday day before whenever it was i've been away for 10 days or so and i just i'd ran once i think in 10 days and i could feel my body just itching to i said to my other half bex i was like i just need to move i need to go and i need to go and run and we're very fortunate where we live we live right next to the beach so there are i mean there are no excuses where we live uh it's a beautiful place to run so yeah running for me yeah yeah

41:57Jeannette:good for you and and you know you and bex you've got you like say you've got you know you've got a supportive partner right it's so important when we've got these big jobs and i think sometimes we don't give a shout out to our loved ones who are there egging us on maybe calling out our bullshit when sometimes we might get a bit too big for our boots you know because matthew just because you're on the telly, you know, you're at home now. So how do you two rub along as a team, if you like, so that you kind of create this nice life that you've got together? But given that you've got a lot of pressure in your way a lot, how does it play out for you two as a couple?

42:35Matthew Walker:Lex is just wonderful. It took me 38 years to find her. I'm so grateful for her. It's just easy. We're a team. We support one another. We're just a team. Yeah, she's great. She's just wonderful. If anyone always says what she likes, I just think she's beautiful inside and out. She really is. Yeah, she's a good egg.

42:57Jeannette:Oh, well, nice shout-out for Bex. And, yeah, here's to our lovely partners that keep us sane and keep us on track and acts as our biggest fans and our biggest critics as well, I think, sometimes. That's the thing, to keep us in check.

43:15Matthew Walker:Yeah, exactly, exactly.

43:18Jeannette:So, Matthew, if you could describe this year in one word, what would it be and why?

43:22Matthew Walker:Change. This was a really easy one. I saw it and change. I don't know whether you've ever done this. I love my job. Really love it. And when you're talking about drive earlier, quite often I don't. Drive is really hard to discuss because I love my job. So it never feels like I'm driving because it never feels like work. but to go back to your question the beginning of this year and and last year I just got into a routine with work but it wasn't fulfilling me in the same way that that it normally does I got into a habit of just it was easy money so beginning to middle of this year I had to make a choice and stop doing some of the work I was doing.

44:12Matthew Walker:It's a bit like what we were saying earlier about saying no to stuff. I had to make a choice to start saying no to the easy money to focus on what I really wanted to do. And again, this is now coming full circle because there was a period this year where my job wasn't bringing in the same level of income. So my investments supported me through that period. And now, again, that focus is starting to pay off. And all of a sudden, work is really busy again in fact anything it's busier than when I was taking the easy money and I'm starting to feel fulfilled again I love what I do I genuinely love it but now I'm doing the thing that I really want to do within the field I want to do well yeah wow amazing so that's

44:54Jeannette:been quite quite like you say changed quite quite a transition but you know that that is smart to sometimes just take a pause and go hang on a minute something just feels a little bit off here i still love what i do but it's not quite the same and what what do i need to then change and sometimes we have to go sideways or backwards don't we to then move forwards as you as you've just described so with that change then matthew what are the what are the big shifts what are the things that you're kind of you know lighting you up at the moment having made that transition what what are the what are the big shifts that are kind of happening now for you then

45:32Matthew Walker:I travel a lot more with work now and I just work within I work a lot in sports and I now just work whereas I was like I said I was just taking the easy money whereas now I work within a few different sports that I really love and are really engaging and I get to what I was saying earlier about preparing with sport there is so much you can prepare the history of sport and things like that so that's been the big change for me but to journey back to what we said about mentors earlier I'm not by any means saying that Matthew McConaughey is a mentor I've never met the man but I do really like him and he wrote a book called Green Lights and if anyone's not read it it's a brilliant read or a great listen have you read it you know what

46:18Jeannette:I'm talking about I have I have I read it recently yeah like probably finished it about a month ago

46:24Matthew Walker:Matthew McConaughey talks about he did exactly that, he didn't want to do rom-coms anymore so he just stopped and it was reading his book years ago that gave me the confidence if you like to start saying no to stuff and just trust the process that it will take you in the direction you want so if anyone's listening and you want a good read or a good listen, Matthew McConaughey, Green Lights it's brilliant.

46:46Jeannette:Yeah I agree and there's something about I think creating headspace it is something around pausing and and you know if you if you ever read anything you know like philosophy or whatever like the guest out theory so that's all about this fertile void so when you can create some space and sometimes that is space that is forced upon us you know maybe we get may redundant or you know something shifts or a relationship ends so what was normally filling our time normally or it might be that you force yourself to stop but if you just can sit in that kind of uncomfortable uncertainness of not filling the gap and see what appears it's incredible it's incredible so it sounds a little bit not necessarily in exactly that that way for you Matthew but it sounds like you've had the chance to be able to just pause and reflect and then get the clarity and go again in a more meaningful way for you, which is fantastic.

47:50Yeah, and you're right.

47:52Matthew Walker:It can be uncomfortable. It really can, particularly if you like being busy because I wasn't working as much as I normally do. And, yeah, it can be. It can be uncomfortable. It really can. But I'm so glad I did it. It's a bit of a cliche, but if you put your mind to something, you can do anything. I know it's such a throwaway comment, but you genuinely can if you focus on something enough and dedicate your time to it you can achieve it you really can and also when you stop you don't realize how much of your day you are giving to something that you're you're not enjoying or isn't fulfilling you it's only when you stop and you think wow i was giving so much time to this if i take that time and channel it in a different direction there's no reason why why you can't make changes but it's not easy it's not easy and I'm still learning with it and struggling with it as I get older no but no but

48:46Jeannette:I think that's right it's very wise you know because at the end of the day I mean look at us getting all philosophical Matthew but you know we only have one life don't we and we don't know how long we don't know how long it's gonna it's gonna be could be it could be a long life could be a shorter life you know so I think and again it probably comes with a little bit of age and kind of being in a relationship where you're really happy as well that allows you to have that kind a support network to stop because quite frankly, life's too bloody short to spend time doing stuff that isn't like really fulfilling you or spending time with people or wasting emotion.

49:20Jeannette:It's not just time, it's emotion, it's energy that you put into certain things and you think, oh my God, why was I doing that? Why?

49:29Matthew Walker:Yeah, exactly.

49:32Jeannette:so Matthew you have got like an exciting exciting road ahead and now we love music at Brave Bob Brilliant so we have our Spotify playlist so Matthew what song are we going to

49:45Matthew Walker:add to our playlist from you this was difficult because I've got a lot but I think my mates would say Johnny B. Goode. So I'm going to stick with that. That is my go-to karaoke classic. Johnny B. Goode. Chuck Berry. I can't play it on the guitar, sadly. I wish I could, but it's definitely my karaoke go-to. So yeah, I'm going to put Johnny B. Goode in that.

50:12Jeannette:Excellent. I could be really mean and get you to sing a little bit, Matthew, but I won't. But whenever we can manage to track you down in the karaoke and have a beer together, I I want to see the live performance, right?

50:25Matthew Walker:Okay. I won't do it now because we don't want to lose too many viewers, so I won't do it now. But karaoke booths, yes, I'm there.

50:34Jeannette:Excellent, excellent. I love it. So thank you for that, Matthew. So final question. When you hear the words brave, bold, brilliant, what does that mean to you, Matthew?

50:46Matthew Walker:This was a really easy one for me. We talked about facts earlier. it's my mum and it's Bex both different but similar Bex is a teacher and she works again her work ethic is extraordinary whether she's not feeling 100 % whether she's got stuff going on in her personal life whatever it is she gets up she shows up and she goes to work and I'll be honest until I fell in love with a teacher I didn't realise how much work they do in school she's busy and then she comes home in the time when she's not getting paid in her own time and she still works. So Bex is one of them. And secondly, my mum, she is, we talked about my dad earlier, sadly, he's no longer with us.

51:29Matthew Walker:But my mum was forced to create a life after my dad that she never thought she would have to. And she doesn't recognise it in herself. But she is, yeah, she's extraordinary to go to be with someone for 40 years that they were together. And to not have that person there and have to just change direction and start start holding you know a new life and find things that fulfill you yeah that's incredible oh goodness me jeanette you got me there

51:59Jeannette:yeah it's a moment no it's yeah well you've got two incredible powerful inspiring women in your life there haven't you that are real true life force both of them and how great is that but But yeah, big shout out to the two most important women in your life. That's wonderful. I love that. Well, Matthew, it has been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. Thank you so much.

52:25Matthew Walker:Likewise. Likewise. Thank you so much. That really got me, that. Yeah, real pleasure. Thank you for inviting me on.

52:34Jeannette:Bringing into Brave Board Brilliant. What an inspiring conversation with Matthew Walker, presenter, live event host, whose versatility, energy and professionalism shines through across sports, music, television and corporate events. And, you know, Matthew's journey, it really does remind us that leadership and excellence comes from preparation, resilience and connecting authentically with people. So from theatre and TV to major music festivals, Matthew demonstrates adaptability, authenticity and impact in every step. And of course, if you found today's episode valuable, we'll share it with someone who could benefit from his insights.

53:18Jeannette:And whatever you do, make sure that you're subscribed to Brave Bold Brilliant so that you never miss an episode or a conversation that can really help you on your own business and life journey. And just remember, it is by being brave and bold that you're going to unlock your brilliant. I really hope you've enjoyed this episode of Brave Bold Brilliant. remember check out our new website www.brave-bold-brilliant.com you're going to find loads of resources on there that's going to help you with your leadership journey and with the businesses that you're trying to scale up and grow so take care everyone and remember there are no limits to your growth but it is by being brave and bold that you're going to unlock your brilliant