Q1 2026 Business Highlights: Top Entrepreneur Insights You Can’t Miss

0:10So welcome to Brave Bold Brilliant. I'm here today with Piers Linney. Piers you don't really need any introduction because you're pretty well known with all of the amazing things you've been doing in the world of entrepreneurship, business, Dragon's Den. It's pretty impressive. I'm always amazed that I go into that shop. Hello, by the way. Thanks for having me on this show. I go into shops and there's one of the other days, like a 20-year-old. He's like, are you Piers Linney? I'm like, how the hell? Dragon's Den, I mean, you know, it was a great thing to do, but it's still kind of being replayed, obviously, constantly because the people have completely different.

0:42It was eight weeks of my life 10 years ago anyway i'm sure we'll get on to that we will but my background is quite varied though we should go for it i've done a lot more than be on tv you have done a lot more than be on tv and what i find quite fascinating is that you went down what would be perceived maybe as quite a traditional route in terms of law accountancy finance background looks like that from the outside it wasn't like that from the inside so tell her what tell us what it was like from the inside then piz because you you have that background on your cv on your on your bio but then you've done a whole bunch of other stuff uh which wouldn't necessarily people would expect the two to match so yeah talk us through the inside track of the early years career choices etc yeah so i guess when you look at my bio if you look at me on linkedin on my cv right it looks like lots of other ones it's like if you kind of it's like well you know he obviously did okay at school we got some a-levels he got into manchester university he did a good degree course accounting and law he obviously got a good degree because then he got into law school and at law school he got a job in a city law firm well done and then after that he decided to go into investment banking you know like you do so that's a move to make in the city and after that he went into business and then he went back into finance and then he became an entrepreneur you're kind of like Okay, I get it.

2:03So that was from the outside looking at that process. But for me, it wasn't like that at all, right? I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I grew up in Lancashire. I went to a Milltown Comprehensive. I fell on my 11 plus, which is never a good thing to do if you've got a West Indian mum. I fell on my 11 plus. I did my O levels twice. I did my A levels twice. I had to go to night school to get an A level, an extra one. Manchester University gave me a chance. there is a a series of people that gave me a chance i think and manchester university was probably one of the first ones i did my degree i got a 2.1 so i quite enjoyed it accounting and law but then i wanted to be a lawyer i didn't know what a lawyer was when i grew up i said to people i wanted to go into business and everybody said to me and uh you know sorry for any accountants listening but they said become an accountant and i was like what was an accountant i didn't have a clue because everyone i grew up with in my area you know so and i didn't come i didn't you know have a difficult child or anything like that my mum and dad were working class but that was a mancunian cheetah mill working class lad he did well he actually went to cambridge in those days he came back he didn't get to join the club and then my mum came from barbados windrush generation worked the nhs all of her career until she retired then she started a business i think that's where the entrepreneurial street comes from was always there my mum but interestingly she wanted to work in finance in Barbados.

3:26And in those days, unless you were white, a white Bayesian, believe it or not, you couldn't get a job in finance. So she left and came to the UK. So they were kind of my, I kind of looked up to them. They were, I wouldn't say they were role models really, but they were people that sort of gave me guidance in life. And they did quite well. My mum had a BMW, right? Not a flash one, but she had one. So I had a reasonably comfortable sort of childhood, but I was the only black kid in two and a half thousand kids in my school in a mill town in Lancashire, which was interesting, as you can imagine. I became quite adept at judo because I had to be.

4:00So I kind of ended up in university. I had no idea about law at all. And then I applied to 68 different law firms. One firm, SJ Berwyn, who I still know some of the partners to this day, well, the firm doesn't exist anymore. They gave me a chance to become a city lawyer. And during that process, I thought, I learned all about venture capital and investors. And I was sat in the room when, you know, a Cayman Island-based billionaire, I think that's the word, a Bahamian-based billionaire, bought, you know, Tottenham Hotspur. And I was sitting in the room watching this. I thought, that's what I want to do.

4:34And I watched the venture capital funds do management buyouts. There was no tech fund there. It was all MBOs. I thought, that's what I want to do. And somebody said to me, you should go into investment banking. And I said to him, what's investment banking? Didn't have a clue what he's talking about, right? I thought banking was like stamping bits of paper in Barclays behind a, you know, a grill. And I said, okay. So I learned all about investment banking. I applied to all the banks. Not one of them even gave me an interview. And then some recruitment consultant got me an interview in one of them, which was then called Barclays Dazut Wed.

5:05It was part of Barclays, actually. They bought a brokerage called Dazut Wed. And it's kind of a bit of a player back in the day in Canary Wharf. They sold it about three months after I ended up getting a job there because they gave me a chance as well. And I thought, well, I had it in a lasting first outsourced. If you're enjoying this conversation with Piers, then you make sure you subscribe to Brave Bob Brilliant on your favourite podcast platform and on YouTube. You know, each week we bring you stories of leaders who aren't just building businesses, they're transforming industries and lives.

5:38So hit follow, stay inspired, and don't miss a single episode. But I wear my socks off. I knew that was my Willy Wonka ticket. You know, I didn't leave the building, and I mean that, for like three months. And they gave me a 10 grand bonus and said, look, don't worry, we think you've done a great job, we'll try and look after you. And you either got fired, and the job roles didn't match. They had like American roles, we had UK, like manager or VPs and associates, and it didn't work out, executives. So you either got fired, which a lot did, when they acquired it, mapped up or mapped down. I got mapped up.

6:13so i ended so i went from i went from uh being a trainee lawyer to earning in today's money probably 450 grand a year by the time i was 26 it's insane and then after that the internet i again i didn't leave the building for three years i didn't go to get invited to weddings funerals nothing because i everyone who i wouldn't get a wouldn't get out got called back of holidays I didn't care. I loved it. And then I left the city for the dot-com boom, dot-com web 1.0, the third industrial revolution, if you want to call it that. And I thought, I've got to head west and hitch up my wagon and head west and dig for gold, pan for gold.

6:53And I did. And I then went into the dot-coms for a while, then back into finance. So you can see that when you look at it on paper it looks like a lot of cvs but my story was one of utter chaos in most cases and not really knowing what the next step was going to be until i saw it and thought well i want to do that people said to me when i want to be a lawyer it's look you know people like you don't become lawyers it's very oxbridge city you know it's a it's a ambition to have but don't get your hopes up people actually said that to me and I became a lawyer when I was a lawyer people said to me investment banking is very very very difficult to get into which it is it still is absolutely and so again don't get your hopes up but given your track record you know SJ Berman is a good firm but don't get your hopes up they're mostly accountants and MBAs not many lawyers but I became a banker so I was kind of quite blinkered and bloody minded and it was only really we'll talk about a bit later maybe the I didn't look around me.

7:56I didn't realise there was no one else like me around me doing what I did. It was only really, but in 2008, the government said to me, I just kind of made some money then. I built a business, sold it. And they said to me, you should be a role model. And I thought, well, why? They said, well, look around you. Do you see people looking like you? Especially Caribbean heritage. And I realised, no, I don't. And that's why I got quite involved in being a mentor and diversity and inclusion. Went down that path as well. But that was my kind of path up until roughly leaving the city on my first ventures but I started making real money when I was I got involved in bringing hedge fund finance from the US to the UK I understood financing and I thought what can I do is this sort of because basically I left the city if you look back at 2000 around that time a lot of people who started dot coms were wealthy parents they were managers consultants had a bit of money or bankers had a bonus and I was the banker so I thought right I could take my bonus probably you know 250 grand in today's money but maybe more and I can take a year or two out and if it doesn't go well I can always go back so as I left the city on my kind of with this bridge back to it the dot com bubble burst in March 2000 and they fired everybody so my my bridge back to the city was like incinerated so I had no way back so I could only really go forwards and that and I've been in business ever since wow so there's a lot in here because you were talking about and this is like a sort of a story of chaos and not really having a clear path but it's a story of resilience as well right Piers because you know you had a lot of people saying you know manage your expectations don't expect too much there's no one like you is successful in those fields and you had lots of no's and you had to kind of keep persevering so when you know he's the nose didn't bother me at all so you you just you just could blink like just put that to one side just keep focused on your why was for a strong purpose a strong why that was driving you or was it just sheer bloody mindedness i wasn't thinking in whys and that kind of stuff i wasn't having you know 5am ice baths and thinking about my why i was just just trying to get on with it it was a numbers game and i wanted to do it and i was going to keep going once every single law firm in the uk that worth applying to at all said no simple as that and that's what i did um you know after you start thinking about stuff like that but um so welcome to brave ball brilliant vicky gosling obe is here in the room in person thank you thank you for having me i was excited to be here i know i know we were chatting before we pressed play and i went press play and i was like going oh my god i didn't realize all this stuff that you've done this is going to be quite an interesting conversation i think it's because i'm so old i've done lots you've had an interesting colorful life shall we stay absolutely full of full journey um now 21 years in the raft we're going to start there and then there's a whole kind of long long long long long long list of cool things that you're doing uh today and since you you kind of left the raft right but take us back to when you when you joined up what was it what was it about about joining you know the military yeah do you know i think it's a lot to do with traveling i think it was doing sports really appealed um i had a thing about helicopters growing up.

11:10I loved helicopters. And so actually the thought of flying helicopters was really attractive. But, you know, very much also I went to a convent school. Not many people know that. Near to three and a half. So I was in a uniform from a really young age and that became really familiar. So it's quite structured. It was fairly strict, as you can imagine. But I did like that environment that had the structure. And so for me, joining the military was about and I studied languages actually at university as well so it was all about using my languages doing sport um traveling hopefully flying and um and that was the big attraction and being in a familiar environment that was quite structured and was it was your did you have sort of a military background in the family then or parents or my grandfather was in the navy um he was in the navy but it wasn't so much that I think it was genuinely I think it was the structure of school and being in a uniformed environment that was quite and I you know I went to to school but as I say three and a half in a uniform in a really stretched environment I was dropped I used to get the bus at a really young age um with my elder sister and and um that put some structure into my life but it was so you know for the minute I you know you got up went to school to the minute you finished there was structure within the day And I seem to quite like that.

12:34And why so young then? Three and a half years old to be in... What was the backstory to you being in school so young at that age? I think because my parents both worked. Yeah. They worked really hard. And so they were full-time employed. And I guess at the time, my mum wasn't that maternal to start with. She was... You know, with my children, she was the best grandma. She was a fantastic mum. but she was the best grandmother ever but she was incredibly focused on work because they had to as well and so I think she was quite happy to put me into that structured environment right okay and actually because she sounds really posh right don't you you sound very posh well you think I do but I I can hear the twang on myself when I hear myself back Liverpool Manchester you see I was I was going, I sound so mad compared to you.

13:28You don't sound scous at all. No, I think I probably need to put a little bit more on just to actually irritate you. You're not a kind of competition. Who can be the most northern? I know, you have to be the good northern women together. Exactly. So 21 years in the RAF. Yes. And so what was that sort of journey like for you during that time? It's a long time in one profession, but clearly you found yourself in so many different scenarios. and different positions as you kind of progress your career right and you know it's really funny because it doesn't feel like that length of time and I think because every time you wait when you start in the military you go from um we call it you know a posting to another posting so I started um you know in the military my first um stint was actually I was sent straight over to once I'd done my um initial officer training I went straight over to Akrotiri um so what we call hold.

14:24So I had a position over in Akrotiri for about seven months. And then I was posted straight to Kinlas. And in Kinlas, I then, I think I did 14 months. And then from then on in, each of my postings were quite short. So I never really did more than 18 months. But during each posting, I went from Scotland, I went to London, I went up to Lincolnshire, I went out to Iraq. So there was constant change within the postings. And during each time I was at a specific base, I had um you know deployments to contend with I was also um actually one of my postings was called the joint force air component for a two-year period and that was a deployable headquarters so we were never at the base so you can imagine just how quickly time goes by so you don't see it as a full 21 year stint because there was so much variety and my last post being actually at Royal Air Force Benson the helicopter base as a group captain so which is great fun yeah and and And so back when you started, many women following this career path back then.

15:29I'm kind of preempting an answer here. But I guess it shifted quite a bit, hasn't it? It has shifted massively. You know, there weren't that many women. And I think about training, there were, you know, in a flight of 10 people, you'd have one woman if you were lucky, if not two. I mean, two is sort of, you know, the maximum. you'd never get more than two women on a flight of 10 um people so that was indicative of where we were i think it was 10 maximum uh women in in in the royal air force i i think it is shifting it's definitely shifting since then um you certainly didn't have women with three kids like i ended up doing um and i think that's uh you know that was a for me that was a big moment because a lot of people saw it as as actually you know a great thing to be able to see women who had managed to get to a senior position and had three children um but was then very attainable yeah because actually if you think about role models you know we're always looking on with someone that we can identify with that maybe talks like us looks like us as a sort of background a little bit like us and and i guess there weren't that many if any role models of of working mums in the raft and especially with three children i know well they're also the one There weren't, actually, when I joined, there were very few senior, senior women, very few.

16:56You know, it seemed that actually, if you were going to stay the full duration to get to the top of that period, you certainly didn't have children. And very rarely were you married. I mean, that's a little bit of a carte blanche statement or a generalisation, but it was actually quite true, if I'm honest. I mean, that has definitely changed. Yeah, yeah. So how did you manage then with that backdrop to kind of, one, have a relationship that actually led to three children being born in the first place? But yeah, how did you manage to navigate that and still have an incredibly successful career and to get the promotions and to build your career at the same time as a relationship?

17:40Where did you meet your husband? On a tennis court, actually, at Wimbledon. So we used to play. We both played for the inter-services. And so we met through playing tennis. But interestingly, back to how did I do that? You know, it wasn't plain sailing. So my first pregnancy, I actually hid. I hid my first pregnancy right the way through to the fact that I was seven months pregnant. Wow. And the large reason being that I didn't, you know, I was actually on the Joint Force Air component. And I was really I knew that I was coming up to being evaluated for Advanced Staff College, which is the college that the top five percent across all military get to go to.

18:23So it's quite prestigious. It means that they they see that you've got the legs to go all the way to the top of the military. And I really I knew that I'd been quite fast tracked all the way through. And so I didn't want to miss out on being promosy because I was pregnant. And I did feel that it was going to be judged. And so and also for our we didn't get married until after the third baby, which is also just not the done thing. Right. And so I did. I hid it. And actually, I was like I look back and I was irresponsible. I actually at one point ended up on a Hercules sitting on top of a load of parachutes at five months pregnant with a bump under my fatigues and my combat gear thinking, what on earth am I doing?

19:05so irresponsible probably um and I hid it quite well because first babies you tend to be able to keep them in quite tight um uh but but you know I I then had Joseph and and he was born you know healthy and everything was fine but I I do reflect back on why did I I never felt I celebrated pregnancy because it wasn't the done thing yeah yeah well how would you do how would you do it differently now did you did you actually get did you get into the what was it I got into staff college i went to college i got information um and what just in the nick of time well well yeah just sort of yeah he's like get the baby out um yeah and they said it all worked out in the end i think everybody was slightly slightly astounded when they found out that i was pregnant um and actually i had my first baby five weeks early joseph came five weeks early probably because of the crazy lifestyle that was leading um but i yeah i mean doing it differently i i do you know i don't live with regrets i'm honest but i do regret the fact that i feel and i'll come back to a third pregnancy because a similar thing happened i feel that i held back on celebrating the pregnancies because of the concern that i wasn't going to it would disadvantage me in terms of career pathway so welcome to brave bold brilliant it's great to I'm here today with Sam Sherry, Chief People and Places Officer at Olwick.

20:34Bit of a mouthful. It is. And you've squoze places in there. It's not your normal Chief People Officer role. It's not your normal Chief People Officer role. So I look after everything that is places related. So all of our offices that our colleagues sit in, where our drawers take place, that all comes under me as well. So it's an all-encompassing role. But did you know who Owen were when we first met? yeah well I think I do but maybe people listening might not know so tell us tell us the backstory yeah so I work for Allwin Entertainment so officially and we are the operators of the National Lottery which the last 31 years now we celebrated our 30th birthday last year has been the a British treasure I would say you know I remember playing the first game of the National Lottery back in 1994 just showing you my age there giving that one away spoiler alert and I remember buying that first ticket and that excitement as to whether you know whether I was going to win I was convinced I was going to win yeah and then a few years ago I got a call to be the then Chief People Officer for the operator it was transferring from the existing operator Camelot yeah and I was going to take a year off after my last role and I think when the National lottery comes calling you go running towards it yeah and to be part of something that I've loved for so long and that so many people I know have loved it for so long it just it was a no-brainer for me to come and do this yeah well I'm going to talk about your career I'm going to talk about you know the national lottery oh winning it in a lot more detail but you you started off by saying it's an it's a bit of a national treasure it is and I think it is absolutely I agree with you but And I also think that people don't really understand, and we were talking about this before we pressed record, that, you know, what's actually involved and how many people are helped through the National Lottery.

22:28So I think let's bust some of the myths, shall we? Because actually when the lottery started back in 94, you know, that's really pre-social media, pre-internet, pretty much, pre-digital. So the world shifted a hell of a lot during that time. And I think that sort of love for the brand back then was probably quite well known what they did, what the lottery did. Whereas now, I think it's sort of a lot of people don't really understand. And certainly they might not. If you say Olwen, they probably go, oh, who's that? What company is that? I think that's fair. Yeah. So talk us through a little bit some of the myths, things that people should know that they don't know.

23:06I think one of the things that I would absolutely love everyone to have front and centre in their mind when they play the National Lottery, regardless of what game they're playing is the impact they're having on society because I definitely think that is not fully understood so every time you buy a ticket for any of our games so if you're buying for a draw based game or if you're buying a scratch card for yourself or a loved one approximately a quarter in every pound that you spend goes to a good cause and not a lot of people know that no and I talk to people all the time and I tell them who I work for and they talk about winning and they talk about winners and we can definitely talk about that because that's a that's been a real joy in my role is meeting people who've who've won the national lottery or won varying amounts of money through it but really the the people that really don't understand that the impact it's had to the same society where money has gone to local community funds heritage sports so i think uh remember the olympics yes we probably have heard a lot of the Olympians thanking the National Lottery money from that has helped our Olympians really focus on their training and being the best at what they are but also it funds grassroots sport as well and it funds people in communities and through the arts and heritage that perhaps need support and as I said I think every postcode in the UK has received National Lottery funding it's something that's quite phenomenal and it feels like quite a big secret and I really want us to get that out there because it is it's something that when I tell people it and they hear it they go wow that's amazing and actually even if I haven't won something just now somebody else has won through the money that you know and we call it because of you so every time you pay a ticket somebody wins and either it's through good causes or somebody is winning whatever level of jackpot it might be so it's it's a really fantastic part of of the company and actually it's a really fantastic part of my job I've spent a lot of time with good causes and and I absolutely love the time that we spend out with good causes and it's something we encourage a lot of people to do here at Allwin as well is to is to really understand the impact that their role has on good causes because Allwin has a commitment to double has a commitment to double returns to good causes by the end of their 10-year license yeah so approximately 32 million a week goes to good causes and so it was 30 it's it's a phenomenal massive money 32 million a week wow so every course of a year do the math for me what's it in the for over a year it's just over 1.6 billion to good causes and that's all because of people who are watching this today who pay the national lottery yeah so and we have made a commitment that we are going to double returns to good causes by the end of the license so the license started in 2024 and by the end of 2034 we want to be giving 60 million a week to good causes and the idea behind that is that we will grow the national lottery responsibly so that's not our existing players just playing loads more it's actually more people playing a little yeah and we can talk a little bit about the journey that all has been on perhaps in the last three years in a minute but the changes that we've been making are going to really help us and enable us to grow the national lottery in a very responsible way so it's it's something that I it gives me goosebumps even now when I think about when I first got that phone call thinking about working for something that I've loved for so long and that people in my life have loved for so long as well so and actually being able to smile like that about a job that you do is like that's the that's the nirvana moment for everybody I think oh god yeah 100 because if you're passionate about what you do i mean how many people just don't enjoy what they do right which is a great waste because we don't know how long we've bloody got in the planet that's for sure that's for sure so to find that you know in your career with a brand that you love where you're giving back and it's not i don't think it's it's over exaggerating the point to say that literally all winning the national lottery changes lives for the better yeah that's that's not a you know a marketing logo slogan is it that is really fundamentally and we talk about that a lot is that we change lives every day and that's ultimately what we're here through either through as i say people who play our games and how they experience playing our games um and you know potentially win as well um but you know we've made over seven and a half thousand millionaires which is just fantastic and I've met lots of winners and seeing the emotions they go through is fantastic.

27:50But as I say, that money that really has an impact on people who are recipients of National Lottery funding, it's not a lot of people get to do that in their roles. Not at all. And like you say, we tend to think of the people that are winning the lottery in terms of how it's changing that individual and their family and their immediate kind of close-knit group, for example. But we don't really think about the other side of it, which is a charitable giving sort of things so is is all win a not-for-profit no as an organization this is a commercial profit but it's uh the profit in the national lottery for the operator is very low yeah it's approximately one penny in every pound wow yeah and the rest goes to things like um so prize duty as i said returns to good causes so sorry lottery duty yeah uh prize funds and the operations of the lottery itself but but it is a commercial organization yeah yeah and so what the you know as we go as i said we'll talk about the where the journey we've been on but the journey we will go on uh from 26 onwards is how we grow the national lottery responsible um to be to be able to deliver more money to good causes and you know and to continue to being a fantastic place to work for everybody yeah well and so what i love about this well one um i didn't think there were many businesses that had lower percent EBITDA as a percent of revenue compared to travel.

29:13So, you know, a travel business that's making about 5 % is actually doing quite well. So, you know, it's an interesting sort of middle model. But the point being, it's a commercial venture. It's profit for good. Yeah. Right. And you've got two sides of the coin. The winners, obviously, contribute to the tax coffers significantly as well. Of course. And then, of course, you know, the good causes. So it's really a lot more to it than meets the eye, isn't it? And I think that's probably our job as we enter into 2026 and beyond is to really continue growing awareness and bringing back some of that love and magic of the National Lottery.

29:53Yeah. And so who wouldn't want to be part of that? I mean, as I say, when they came calling, I just said, I can't take any time off. This needs to be the next role for me. Yeah. both because of what it was but also what i could be part of i love transformation gigs i've always done big roles where i'm driving change yeah and this felt like the change so and say to be part of it has been i feel very fortunate to be part of it yeah well you can see you're just like buzzing you know what is it talking about it genuinely i'm honestly the energy anybody you hear talking about it will you will hear them talk the same and uh our ceo she she talks about when she came and joined the organization she felt she felt compelled to go for this role because it had such a made such a fundamental difference and phenomenal difference to society well welcome to Brave Bold Brilliant podcast I'm here today with Panos Almirantis all the way from Greece Panos how lovely to see you very nice to see you Jeanette and I love the fact that we will engage into a fantastic conversation I'm certain.

31:03Absolutely well listen we've both been in the industry a long time I think 30 years where we're about 30 years maybe a little bit more.

31:16Exactly exactly so we've seen lots of changes in the industry during this time and in your role Panos you're the Chief Growth and Commercial Officer for Ella Resorts and you have a wonderful portfolio of hotels. So do you want to just start by explaining the organization, your role there, and, you know, kind of, we're going to talk about your career and all the exciting plans you have for the group, but just explain a little bit about Ellen Resorts for us, Panos, if you don't mind. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Listen, if I am to say how my career evolved, I would say that my journey feels like a straight line and more like a mosaic of different experiences, geographies, cultures, and so on.

32:00I personally didn't enter hospitality because I had a great master plant, but I'd rather enter because I was fascinated by people. And I walked myself all the way from a busboy, from a waiter to a hotel general manager. And practically, even now that I engage into the role of chief commercial and growth officer of Ella Resorts, I still feel, well, I consider myself as a hotelier, but I still feel an acting hotel general manager. LR Resorts is a hospitality platform that was found in 2021. It's the only hospitality platform that an international fund company owns, which is called HIG. So there was a great opportunity in Greece.

32:45We found ourselves here in 2021. And ever since, we are evolving. And we have a portfolio of different properties in lucrative destinations between Athens, Corfu, Crete, Rhodes, and with further expansion plans. Excellent. So it's an exciting time ahead for you, Panos, isn't it? most definitely I mean if you see the international setting there is a great opportunity not just for Greece but also for the Mediterranean region which is something that is on the top of our list yeah and Panos I know that you've got you know I think you've got quite a significant investment plan behind I read somewhere 700 million euros so a significant budget behind the growth and you have four new hotels that you're planning to open by 2028.

33:40So big expansion plans. And June, are you able to share where those new properties are going to be panels? Or is it still very much a work in progress? Well, no, I will share definitely our plans. Our next chapter is both ambitious, I would say, and carefully considered. So in March 2026, just two months ahead, we will open Rokrita Lifestyle Beach Resort on the northern east coast of Crete, which is a flagship expression, I would say, of our lifestyle and wellness philosophy. Beyond that, we have a property in Corfu which is called Pelacas, and it's going to be it's practically going to be transformed to an adult-focused resort planned for 2027 as an opening.

34:29And another property that is called Capo that will reopen in 2028 also in Corfu as a family uninclusive and I would not say that this is a resort but it will be the plan is for it to become a destination we've secured properties in different parts of Greece but we're very proud of saying that we're actively exploring opportunity in Italy and more specifically in Sardinia at the same time we're expanding ROI wellness which is our spa and wellness concept. And Roy, the name, is pretty much inspired by the Greek concept of flow, offering inclusive programs such as family wellness, pregnancy-safe treatments, menopause-focused experiences, group sessions and retreats.

35:17And last but not least, our culinary voyages bring acclaimed chefs from across Europe to our resorts, supported by premium food and beverage partnerships and themed events. So you understand, Jeanette, that every initiative is tested against three principles, authenticity, operational credibility, and scalability. Fantastic. Well, certainly. I'm really interested in the well-being side of things, Panos, because you mentioned menopause. I am of that age. It doesn't look like that. Well, you're very kind to say. You're very charming. But no, definitely. But I think wellness is such an important market and segment, I think more than ever, we're aware of our mental kind of well-being, our physical well-being.

36:05So it's interesting that you're putting such a focus and also specifically on menopause. So what do those treatments involve, Pados? How are you helping women with the menopause, I guess is the question. Listen, there are so many different pillars that are involved when you're dealing with spa, when you're dealing with water, when you're dealing with wellness. But I'd say that the main pillars lie with the fact of how to effectively sleep, how to breathe, how to utilize your time. I mean, think about it, Jeanette. What is it that none of us has today? That's time. None of us has available time.

36:41We're all so much pressure. So when ladies enter into this sensitive subside and part of their life, we practically try through our programs and experts on holistic approaches, on visiting healers and so on, to walk them through this new phase of their lives. So it's not nuclear physics. It's practically to, you know, to reintroduce ourselves to ourselves. yeah yeah and it's it's really interesting because actually um i think you know it's it's seen as a female issue but for all the men in our lives uh also affected by you know by this as well so i think it's great that you're actually being very proactive you know you're on the front foot with it i've not heard of any of the hotels that are you know consciously um creating programs to help in that area for women with the menopause and therefore make the lives of their partners, sons, male friends, male colleagues easier and happier as well, I think.

37:46I was going to say it's not a female thing. I mean, we all, there is a transition, you know, we were once 20, 30, 40, 50, we're walking to the 60. So everybody's life is changing being a male or a female. So I wouldn't say that they're exclusive programs for female only, but rather for also for male because again as i said we need to reintroduce ourselves to ourselves and to find out what's great about this specific age that will walk us through to that to our next decade and that's what we want to do we practically wish to design and have programs for everyone um you know one of the things that we say as an internal motto is from from toddlers to senior citizens and that's reality and this is our target group actually there is no specific demographic or target group in a company that treats resorts like us because we have big resorts.

38:39So it is important to be able to potentially cover the necessities of every single different age and gender. Yeah, absolutely. And we all have different opportunities and challenges at different times. And Panos, you know, for you personally, you've had a very successful career. As you say, you started at the bottom, shall we say, directly with the customers and with the clients, all the way up to the role that you have now as chief growth and commercial. If you're enjoying this conversation with Panos, then I don't blame you. It is inspiring. There's been so much information, so much knowledge that Panos has shared with us.

39:18And aren't we lucky to be able to actually learn from each other on our leadership journey in business and in life? So, as I say, if you're not subscribed to Brave Bold Brilliant, hit the subscribe button. Make sure you're connected to us and check out the website as well for all those amazing resources that's going to really help you on your leadership journey. So go to www.brave-bold-brilliant.com and go to the Learning Hub. It's going to help you with your all of your business development and leadership journey. So let's get back into the show. Commercial officer. So how do you personally keep yourself in good shape as a leader?

39:59You know, in terms of your emotional well-being, your mental, physical well-being so that you can be the best version of yourself for your teams, for the business and for your loved ones. What do you what do you put in place to help yourself? Well, I think what drives me is the idea of creating places and organizations that matter. I mean, not just commercially, but emotionally and culturally in a sense that my purpose has evolved over the time. So earlier in my career, ambition was a strong driver, you know, proving myself, growing fast, taking on bigger challenges. Today, my motivation is more intentional.

40:35So I'm driven by building environments where people, I mean guests and teams alike, feel seen, inspired and connected. Welcome to Brave Bob Rillin. I'm here today with Mark Rushmore, who is the co-founder and chief commercial officer of Surrey. It's all about toothbrushes, but so much more. Welcome, Mark. Thank you very much. I'm really glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and we are here in your wonderful offices, central London. A bit swish this, isn't it? I must say, I always say it sort of makes us feel like a real company, this office. But we're really fortunate to be part of Sandbox, where they have these great offices and great locations, but at a price, which is very affordable, which is why you have all these great consumer startup companies here.