The Hidden Cost of Scaling: What Every Leader Learns Too Late

0:00Jeannette Linfoot:Scaling a business beyond 10 million, it's not a marketing challenge. It's not a branding challenge either. It's not even a strategy problem, which you might think it is. It's actually a leadership evolution problem. So what does that mean? You know, most founders don't realize is that actually the very behaviors that helped you build the business to say 1 million, 3 million, even 5 million are the exact behaviors that will actually cap you at maybe 7 million. or 10 million. So today I'm going to walk through the five brutal decisions that every CEO must make if they want to break through that ceiling and get to the 10 million plus.

0:42Jeannette Linfoot:And I call them brutal because they're uncomfortable, right? Emotional and deeply personal, but they are non-negotiable. After 30 years in business, this is what I've learned. So decision one, outgrow early loyalty. Now, this is the one that, you know, no one really wants to talk about because when you start a business, you hire scrappy, right? You hire people who believe in the vision, people who were there when it was messy, when they kind of bought into the early founder years. They're loyal, they grafted with you, right? But here's the uncomfortable truth. The team that builds a business is rarely the team that scales it.

1:28Jeannette Linfoot:So scaling demands some different things. Scaling demands specialization, operational depth, strategic maturity, emotional resilience. And sometimes the people who actually helped you build cannot necessarily operate at the level required in order to scale. And this isn't about disloyalty. It really isn't. It's about capacity. And as a CEO, you absolutely have to separate gratitude from growth. And I've seen founders hold on to too long out of guilt. And that costs millions. And if someone is no longer aligned with where the business is going, then, of course, it's your responsibility to actually create the business of the future, not the past.

2:15Jeannette Linfoot:And that's the brutal truth. But it is leadership and it can be tough. Now, decision two, heal what's comfortable. I know, hard, isn't it? Most 10 million ceilings are built on yesterday's success. You have a product that works, right? You have a revenue stream that's profitable. You have a model that feels safe. But comfort can create stagnation. And the most dangerous words in business that I've heard for many, many years are, it's working. Because working often means plateau, right? So to scale beyond 10 million, you've got to really ask, is this model scalable? Or is it just sustainable? Is this product future-proofed?

3:06Jeannette Linfoot:Or is it familiar? you. Sometimes scaling requires, you know, cannibalizing your own success, which sounds sort of ironic, doesn't it really? But launching something new, you know, repositioning, raising prices, changing structure, it does feel risky and it can be risky. You know, business is risky, but comfort is seductive and it can keep you stuck. And it's the leaders who scale are the ones willing to disrupt themselves before the market disrupts them. So then let's talk about decision three. Decision three, you've got to hire above your ego. And this one really does separate founders from really global, scalable CEOs.

3:50Jeannette Linfoot:Because when you actually build something from scratch, your identity becomes intertwined with it. And actually being the most capable person in the room at that time. You know, you know everything, you approve everything, you have the final say, you know, but scale actually really does demand something more radical than that. You know, you must hire people who are better than you. That's what true leadership is about. You know, better operators, better financial strategies, better at systems, better at marketing, better at execution. You know, and here's where you have to let your ego go. Founders, they often say that they want A players, but they actually hire people that they can control.

4:34Jeannette Linfoot:And scaling beyond 10 million requires surrendering control in areas that maybe you want dominated. And that can feel really uncomfortable, but it's what you need to do because it forces you to redefine your own role, right? And you stop being the hero, you become the architecture architect rather you become the the designer the strategist and if you are still the smartest person in the room at 10 million you've actually built a dependency model you haven't actually built a scalable business so be honest with yourself what's the what do you think is the sort of the one big mistake that i don't know 90 of founders make that kind of kills that brand growth early on?

5:19Jeannette Linfoot:Because I think it's a really fascinating area. How do you scale a brand? And how do you do it in the right way? The biggest mistake every founder makes, and I would have made this many years ago as well, is they try and be like the current incumbents of the category. It doesn't matter if it's sports nutrition or consumer goods of any sort. Someone launching a beverage brand looks at Red Bull and says, oh, I want to be like Red Bull. And while some of the core basics come into play, you're not going to have rapid growth or adoption or breakthrough by being a commodity brand. That's their position in the category.

5:58Let them go and do that. Your position as a new brand and founder is to add value and be incremental and theater and wow to a category. Otherwise, why would a retail buyer, for example, take a skew of Red Bull off to put you on to do the same job? It's not going to happen ever. um you know that's the biggest mistake that every early stage founder makes and you know in all brutal honesty if they do not you know make a change unless they have a billion dollars sitting in the bank to compete um they're not going to be in a position to win yeah yeah i think it's

6:36Jeannette Linfoot:really interesting because as you were talking one of i was fortunate enough to interview one of the co-founders of grenade which you'll you'll know very well from the world of sports so juliet barrett her and her um ex-husband alan started the business way back with with nothing and it was interesting because what juliet was talking about was you know they very much sort of niched down into that kind of caffeine based um you know sort of fuel injection if you like for training and they their brand came about because they were bouncing ideas around and a friend over dinner i think said my gosh that went off like a rocket or something like that went off like a bomb went off like a bomb I think they said and that's where they the name good aid came from but it was from that sort of innovation and try and obviously they sold that business for 200 million right so they did a very very successful exit um but again speaking to Juliet it was very much around the passion and the love but actually landing on a simple name that people just went wow that that stands out in in that segment so I think as you were speaking then I was referring back in my mind of the conversation with Juliet.

7:38Jeannette Linfoot:Exactly, yeah. And I was there during those days when they first brought out Grenade and it was quite a very simple masterstroke, which was they saw what the category was doing. It was boring and so they did something absolutely wild. And then they further obviously built their business through penetrating the chocolate market, to be honest. They became the number one or two selling chocolate confectionery product being a protein bar. It was absolutely insane. yeah it's interesting isn't it because this world of brand and business you know we're more interconnected than we ever realize um that we are and uh you know and for you daniel with with um with rocket fuel and and um everything that you're doing today rocket fuel strategies talk us a little bit around around the business because you founded that business um and i know you have the title ceo but founder is arguably more important when you're actually a business owner as well.

8:33Jeannette Linfoot:So how will you focus on strategy brand? Talk about the little business a little bit and how you help your clients. Absolutely. So, you know, one thing I specialize in, I'm really passionate about is either localizing US brands here into the UK market and European markets. But then secondly, is challenger brands, you know, I think there is such an important position for them in the market that they need to be invested into. And when I was at Congo Brands, it was, you know, quite evidence, you know, what a category breaking brand can do and the role and responsibility that it has. And I had a lot of brands coming to me and asking for support, but obviously, you know, working 24 hours a day for a billion dollar company was always difficult to put that time in and you know when I left Congo Brands you know I wanted to build value to these great challenger brands that were coming through and the one thing I've really noticed was as a challenger brand you're growing like that and they always will ask like oh what's our first hire like what should that be and when you're growing at such extreme rates let's say you hire a national account manager of sorts you know they'll they'll come in here and they'll probably fill their role but like your growth trajectory is so so fast that where you bring people in you know that first one to seven million and then seven to forty like they they they are not going to be developing fast enough for your business.

10:16So I thought to myself, what if I gave these brands the opportunity to have someone come in at this level when they're growing on that level and take over their commercial department and put in some really strong strategic operating mechanics and tactics and actions and drive their entire commercial department, and take over it and deliver it at that scale, at that pace, instead of, you know, having to come in and, you know, they're stepping up continuously with hires, I can come in and offer them something which is at that level they need to be at in five years' time or two years' time because they have heavy, you know, VC backing or capital behind them.

11:02It's, you know, and just work on effectiveness. Like I'm not bothered about, I never want to speak about employment. I want to make sure that Rocket Fuel Strategies is seen as a pure profit center in a business. We come in, we take action. Myself, my team, we deliver on pillars that we hold important to success. But we make sure that challenger brands are treated like challenger brands. And they are different. They're weird. They're absolutely asking really hard questions of the category. And they're going against the grain. Otherwise, they're not going to cut through.

11:36Jeannette Linfoot:Well, and this art of the possible, it's a real leadership skill as well, right? Because I think as a leader, we have to be able to balance the big picture, the strategic view, the view from the balcony, shall we say, when we're looking out and beyond and the horizon and the longer term, bigger picture thinking, and then balance it with when we're on the dance floor as an analogy where we're just you know we're jockeying we're kind of rubbing shoulders etc and we're making stuff happen day to day the operational stuff and you I think as a leader you've got to constantly be be adjusting and and I guess that's what you've done through your career really in terms of the art of the possible the creative thinking the big picture and what may what may be there but then actually the grounded aspect of also bringing that to life in a very real scenario.

12:31Jeannette Linfoot:So when you're through your leadership, how would you say you've changed in terms of being able to balance those things? Because certainly when I was earlier in my career, I was very much on the dance floor most of the time. And as I matured through my career, you realise actually your role is much more around stepping up and out and being able to support the teams and knowing when to get involved and when to step away. But how have you evolved, do you think, in terms of your leadership, Carenza, over the years that you've, you know, you've had your, all the amazing roles that you've had? Yeah, that's, when you reflect back through your life, you realise you've done so many things.

13:10Jeannette Linfoot:And it's partly a product of getting to a grand old age and realising you've actually, you look back and you think, gosh, I hardly believe I did all that. And when you first start being given the gift of looking after other people in a team and being given the responsibility of nurturing them and you really you start it you start out I was in my mid-20s the first time I was asked to do it I found it terrifying because I didn't really feel I was necessarily qualified to be the team leader and so finding my way through that and learning how to not just do the doing but also helping provide the guidance um and I did spend actually when I was at university I spent one year teaching um I was doing French and German so I taught in a school in France and I was teaching in a catering college I was teaching them English and being in charge of class classes helped you understand a little bit about having that position of authority and responsibility you can't just josh along with them and though my students were ages 12 to 18 and lots of them was 16 17 18 I was only 20 and then 21 and myself and another teacher took a whole load of them on a coach and we went to a trip to England and when I think about it now I think gosh that was quite a brave thing to be doing like having that responsibility um but you sort of you fast forward that level of people are trusting you and that is a really big responsibility so you're kind of your your lovely example of just sitting on the dance floor and then kind of pulling out and kind of almost like surveying the dance floor and making sure that nothing's going wrong in the dance floor but making sure everyone's having a fantastic time on the dance floor that is it's a very very very hard balance to get right so before we continue I want to speak directly to those of you who are listening and thinking, I know I'm capable of more, but I need structure.

15:23Jeannette Linfoot:I need some help. Because here's what I've actually learned after, gosh, more than three decades in business. You know, ambition without clarity creates frustration and motivation without structure. It really does fade very, very fast. So that's exactly why we created Rise Academy. And Rise Academy is not theory. It isn't fluffy motivation, although you will be motivated. And it certainly isn't another online course that you never finish. It's actually a fully structured growth environment for ambitious entrepreneurs, leaders and founders who absolutely are ready to do all of these things, sharpen their strategy, elevate their leadership, increase revenue with intention, and build businesses that actually support the life that they want.

16:18Jeannette Linfoot:And inside Rise Academy, we focus on the foundations most people skip, leading yourself, leading your teams, and leading the business. It's about clarity, standards, decision making, commercial intelligence, and execution. Because scaling, it really isn't about doing more. It's actually about doing the right things and doing the things right consistently. So if you're serious about stepping up into your next level of your leadership, your business life, you know, and not just consuming content, but actually implementing it, then Rise Academy was absolutely built for you. So you can find all the details on our website, go to www.brave-bold-brilliant.com.

17:03And now let's get back to the show.

17:07Jeannette Linfoot:And I've always loved the doing as well as the leadership side of it. And I think it partly comes because I'm a big sister. So I have a brother and a sister, both of whom are younger than me. And so I've always been kind of like a mini mummy, even when I was very little. and that I think just imbues you with a sense of I've got to be in charge I've got to kind of look after I've got to make sure that they're okay and I came across an essay I wrote when I was eight and I talk about how I looked after the little ones and I wrote all these different jobs I did for my parents to look after the little ones when I was eight so I sometimes think about that not in an infantilising way I don't mean it to be patronising but but that sense of responsibility and also you are when you're when you're privileged to be given a leadership position it's your job to rise people up and to help make sure that you're building your succession pipeline making sure that you're thinking about how are you spotting are they in the right places at a round hole in a round around peg in a round hole or is something not quite working and what can you do to help that is it is a little blockage along the way or is it something that's more fundamental um is it is it something that you you know I've worked with people and helped them discover that they what they thought was their calling isn't their calling but actually something else is and then through the process of trying something and discovering it wasn't for you and find something else that it may be better so it's that nurturing role it's it's um when I got more senior in leadership.

18:51Jeannette Linfoot:I also always used to think of my role as the person who would be there to help remove obstacles, but also be there to advise if needed, but not to try to interfere too much because it's the wrong thing to try to create a load of mini-use. But the tension between doing and leading, I think, was well expressed when I was given the role at the BBC, and I did this for five years, I was their head of strategic delivery. And if you think about the oxymoron of being a strategist and a deliverer, that doesn't happen very often. And I was the BBC's only ever head of strategic delivery. And I delivered three big strategies for the BBC.

19:37Jeannette Linfoot:And what that really meant in practice is designing strategies that I would then lead and implement. So rather than handing them off to somebody else and I was working directly for the executive board then but I had a team of people around me and one of the teams was absolutely gigantic and sort of across lots of different parts of the BBC not just in the UK but globally but of course you have to kind of think about how do you create that hub and spoke so that you enable people and everybody's on board with what the vision is and understands it and I love I love having the mandate of starting a new project and gathering the team around and firing them up with the excitement and the motivation of what we're going to do together so that people feel super motivated.

20:25Jeannette Linfoot:I mean, we're just in a phase where, you know, we've got spacecraft, you know, whizzing into space, you know, just had the Artemis launch. It's ever so exciting. It's like that when you're starting a new project, you want to galvanise everybody. So it's that balance of spurring them on with motivation and and vision but also making clear that you're there to help if they get stuck and it's better to say I'm stuck then then either worry away and and let something slide or make a mistake um and of course everybody's human everybody makes mistakes but it's so much better if you if you can say I'm struggling a bit here um and have that relationship with whoever's your boss and to be able to have that conversation.

21:13Jeannette Linfoot:It's interesting, as you were talking, Carenza, what was sort of going through my mind was how we sort of evolve in our own confidence as leaders. And I think way back to when I got my first, even when I got my first board position, I was still very much finding my leadership style. And certainly, for most of my corporate life, I was the only woman in the boardroom with the full P &L and, you know, all of these kind of challenges. Not that it ever held me back, I will say. I didn't have any, you know, terrible experiences. But nonetheless, I think back then I was probably much more of an alpha female thinking I needed to behave and dress in a certain way in order to kind of get on in that world, if you like, whereas actually being authentic and holding your hand up and saying, hey, I haven't got all the answers or I'm just not feeling too great today or whatever it may be.

22:12Jeannette Linfoot:I think some of that comes with maturity, doesn't it? And just sort of that a greater confidence in yourself and being authentic. And actually, we met through Balance the Board. So the lovely Holly Addison and all the work that those guys have done. And with Emma Woods, she created a whole sort of podcast series around confidence and conversations in confidence, which I know you took part in, as did I. But I think it's an interesting area around being authentic and actually admitting that I don't have all the answers, but surround yourself with a really great team that are actually smarter than you in a lot of cases.

22:47Jeannette Linfoot:And that takes courage, bravery, but actually you get so much more out of the whole experience, don't you, when you can be your true self. that structure is what separates businesses that grow from businesses that stall. And it's quite ironic, actually, because it's often the structure and the discipline that you might feel is going to hold you back and constrain you. It's going to be the thing that will set you free, both as a business leader, but also for your teams, for the business overall, and for the customers and clients that you actually serve. So if you're serious about growth, this is absolutely the right place for you to be right now.

23:32Jeannette Linfoot:Now, you may be listening to this live, in which case, fantastic. Please leave us a comment if you've got a question. We always love to answer those. If you're listening to this on the podcast or you might be watching it on YouTube and you've not yet subscribed, hit the subscribe button. And the reason I'm saying that is because then you will be notified every time we have a new episode, every time we have a new short video on YouTube. So you're never going to miss out. Because the reason why I set up Brave Bold Brilliant is because I am passionate about business and about people. And I know how tough it can be to grow a business, to scale a business, whether you're in the corporate world like I was for many years, 25 years, or whether you're a business owner, an entrepreneur.

24:22Jeannette Linfoot:You know, today I have a portfolio of businesses, so I know what it's like to start with nothing, to build a career, to start a business, scale a business. I am not the oracle. I have made lots of mistakes over the years, but I'm all about keeping it real because what we want to do is support each other with our growth. And business can be tough. It can be lonely. But actually, we're not trying to split the atom. So let's keep it simple. So what I'm going to do now is actually take you through four different sections. What we've wanted to do is break this down into manageable chunks so that actually you can really get the most out of this conversation.

25:05Jeannette Linfoot:So, you know, grab a pen and paper, grab a cup of tea, sit down, have a listen and come and join me on this really important topic about structure and growth. And of course, if we're not connected on social media, let's get connected. You'll find Brave Bowl brilliant, but you'll also find my sort of personal profile as well. You know, Jeanette Linfoot, two N's and two T's in Jeanette. So this is a great way for us to support, to really build our network of business, you know, leaders in the right way. So let's get into this. So section one, let's talk about the real problem, right? What is it?

25:41Jeannette Linfoot:What's really the real problem here? Well, most founders or most business leaders, they build businesses like this. You know, they hire reactively, maybe no clear roles. Everyone doing a bit of everything. Does that sound familiar? I have definitely been there with businesses that I founded and also with, you know, some of the businesses that I advise today. But you're honestly, it might surprise you. This is often the case even in larger organizations as well. So, you know, yes, we see a lot of this messiness in smaller businesses, but we also see elements of it in large corporates that have actually sort of grown arms and legs over the years.

26:20Jeannette Linfoot:So, you know, it's very, very real. And, you know, in those scenarios, you can find that decisions get bottlenecked at the top, you know, and it works until it doesn't. Right. Because growth without structure can actually be chaotic. Right. So that's really what we're talking about. So section two is what's the shift that you need to make? So if you acknowledge that that might be the case in your business or in the department you're running, etc., whether you're in a smaller or a larger business, once you accept that, you're able to then confront your reality. Right. And that then allows us to get into really how do we how do we solve some of this stuff?

27:03Jeannette Linfoot:So, you know, you have to stop asking what needs doing today and actually start asking better questions because you'll get better answers. So better questions like what structure does my business need to grow? That's a question because businesses that don't businesses don't scale through effort. they actually scale through design. And you have the ability to design not only the organization structure, not only the roles within it, but also the systems, the processes, the way you communicate. So all of these elements are so, so important. And in actual fact, last week, I was with a very, very large organization, a really huge international conglomerate of a business.

27:52Jeannette Linfoot:and you know we actually interrogated the reality of where we are as a business where are we when it comes to a high performing team and it allowed us to really take stock and then of course identify all right interesting what's the shift we need to make in order to go further faster and to have even more impact and better financial results so asking yourself those questions the right questions is going to allow you to get to the bottom of what's really going on. But you've got to be honest, all right? So section three, this is the biggie. How to structure your business, right? And so this is the framework that I'm going to share with you.

28:34Jeannette Linfoot:So write this down, listen back, you know, we're here to help, we genuinely are. So the first thing is you need to define your core functions, right? Every business, you know, no matter the size, needs clarity across that. These are some examples, sales, marketing, operations, finance, HR, you know, and if they're not clearly defined, you know, you don't have a business, you actually just have lots of activity in different areas. So that's the first thing that you need to do in order to get the right structure for your organization, for your business. And this often can evolve over time because what you will find as you continue to scale up, what has got you to the place you are now will not necessarily get you to the next level of growth.

29:26Jeannette Linfoot:All right. So you don't just do this once. You have to revisit as you continue to grow and evolve. So that's the first point within this of getting the right structure. The second, The second part of this section three is you've got to assign ownership, right? You have to have clear roles, responsibilities, and ultimately, you know, stop giving people jobs, but start giving them ownership, accountability. Now, I love to use a RACI, and I've used it in all of the businesses that I've run. You know, whether I was the CEO of the travel division at Saga, when I was the managing director of the emerging markets, with businesses that I advise today, whether that's a core hotels, whether it's Virgin Atlantic, whether it's nationwide building society, whether it's founder led businesses that are looking to scale and grow.

30:21Jeannette Linfoot:So a RACI stands for, the R stands for who's responsible for actually doing the work. The A, very important, the A is who's accountable. Who is the ultimate decision maker? Where does the book stop, right? And you can only have one person accountable. You can have lots of people responsible for different parts, but one accountability. The C stands for consulted. Who should be consulted? and the I is for informed. Now, when you have a racer, you can do it at a very macro level or you can get down to a level of granularity. But what this does, it absolutely gets rid of any grey areas. It's super clear who's doing what, who's the ultimate decision maker, who's going to be consulted and who is going to be informed.

31:11Jeannette Linfoot:And that then allows you also to then refine your processes sitting behind that. It's super simple, but it absolutely works. So who owns the revenue? Who owns delivery? Who owns the client experience? You know, who has the accountability and who has the responsibility for some of those elements? Because the reality is that that clarity that drives the accountability is actually going to result in the performance of the business, both financial results, but also results for the client and the customer and all the other stakeholders that you have to manage. Maybe you have investors, you know, you need to return, give a return to your investors.

31:55Jeannette Linfoot:You know, so all those stakeholders, when you have absolute clarity on roles, responsibilities, the results will show and you'll get bigger impact. The third thing you need to do, you've got to build layers before you need them. Now, this is where a lot of businesses break down. they wait too long, you know, and actually they wait too long to hire leadership, to create that middle management, to build reporting lines, and suddenly everything depends on them. And the business has exploded, but they've not got that structure early on in order to scale faster. So that doesn't mean to say, because you may say, well, that sounds expensive, Jeanette, you know, if I'm creating all these layers of leadership, that's going to cost me.

32:36Jeannette Linfoot:But the reality is, actually it may only be in a very you know simple way that you do this but it's going to make the big difference so actually being super clear because you are one person you're only one person and there's only 24 hours in the day and if everything is coming up the line to you then that's not sustainable it's not a business actually that's just you being you know very sort of overly controlling and not being able to delegate effectively you've got to be able to focus on the right things and give your teams the power to do the same. So then we come on to the fourth point around, you know, kind of operating rhythms.