The Luxury Leader's Code: Lynn Narraway on the #1 Rule for Longevity in the 26-Year Travel Game

22:46Jeannette:kind of things you know you're clearly helping the other person but actually you get so much from it yourself don't you learn so much or you know a different perspective when you when they

22:54Lynn Narraway:text you and say oh i've got a place at cardiff or bristol it's like oh yes you know i helped a

23:03Jeannette:little bit yeah yeah yeah totally i mean i guess to a certain extent and i think there's a perspective about being a woman in business as well right um and it's not to bash the guys you know because you know everyone everyone contributes don't they regardless of gender or background or whatever but nonetheless I think as a woman in business sometimes we can hold ourselves back a little bit or be less you know sort of out there to the world compared

23:29Lynn Narraway:to our male colleagues and I think less so in the travel industry though I agree the industry is so much more inclusive and diverse I'm not sure I've ever felt that I've had some really good experiences in the industry and I think because Carnival is such a diverse and inclusive organization you know if you look at our presidents they come from all genders walks of life etc so I get what you're saying but I'm not sure the travel industry is quite as bad maybe as some of the other industries.

24:13Jeannette:No, you're probably right. And I'm not dissimilar to you in that I've never had a problem, do you know what I mean, myself. And I've been very often the only woman in the boardroom, especially in my early career. But I used to always think to myself, well, if I go in thinking there's going to be a problem, then there will be. So I'm just going to do the best I can. I'm going to turn up. I'm going to do what I say I'm going to do. Be positive. I'm going to be positive. And be confident. I'm going to try and be me. I haven't always got it right. There's been plenty of times where, especially in my earlier career, where I felt I had to be more alpha female, shall we say, to get on.

24:50Jeannette:And I'm quite an outgoing kind of character. So I guess that sort of helps a little bit. But nonetheless, I would be a lot less feminine, shall we say, in my earlier career than I am today. But I kind of learned and changed over years. But I've never per se had a problem. myself.

25:10Lynn Narraway:Well, I think you're right. I think you have to be yourself. You have to be the best self you can be. And I think that then comes out with your team as well. I think you have to be kind and you have to be as good with people as you would want them to be with you yeah which is probably something our mothers said yeah

25:43Jeannette:all those years ago yeah yeah I think that's right so you mentioned earlier talking about our mothers and early life Lynn so Sheffield born in Sheffield

25:55Lynn Narraway:moved to Chester when I was six yes hence the the accent that's neither one thing north the other really.

26:03Jeannette:We sound right posh.

26:07Lynn Narraway:Two daughters born in Surrey they're quite posh really and then yeah moved to went to university in Birmingham so made my way south and then eventually London and that's where I've been based ever since until now on the Isle of Wight. now on the island of white living the dream yes much further south and our office is southampton so it's very easy i get the ferry um every day over to southampton amazing so what was early

26:41Jeannette:life like as you know when you look back to sort of childhood and your parents because i think it's interesting isn't it how those early years can really influence kind of how we grow up as an adult and what we carry with us positively and sometimes negatively in some cases but But, you know, yeah, what was family life like for you?

26:59Lynn Narraway:Well, I have two sisters. Claire's the middle one. Joe is the youngest sister. And we were, I mean, we were lucky. We weren't well off, but our parents let us try everything, you know, so I can horse ride, I can hit a tennis ball, I can ice skate. We really tried everything. Brownies, guides, Claire was very good at badminton. so my parents were very good tennis players county standard yorkshire they both played golf my mum played off nine handicaps so they were very sporty so i guess all of us were were quite sporty my mum was very very clever she got a place to study chemistry at durham which in those days was pretty unusual but then she met my father who was quite a bit older than her so she decided to not go to university but worked in laboratories as a scientist my father was a commercial sales manager so maybe that's where the sales part comes so yeah we lived in Chester for many years and then while I was at university they moved back to Derbyshire right and my mum now lives she's my mum's still around she's uh in dorking um in in a lovely home now so uh yes my sisters are uh one's in kent and one's in salisbury so it's quite a good quite easy for us all to for meet up as a family yeah and then most of the the children are in london both my daughter our daughters are in London and my sister's children are there as well.

28:47Jeannette:I didn't realise you were one of three daughters. I'm the eldest. Well I'm one of three but I'm the youngest. Yeah so I'm sort of opposite end. So it is interesting isn't it the perspective versus the eldest versus the youngest you know. I was chatting with my eldest sister a few weeks ago yeah probably about a month ago now and I was sort of saying how and what it was like as the youngest one growing up and we were sort sharing you know sort of family memories and stuff over a glass of wine and then she was saying well actually as the eldest you know it wasn't that easy either you know so i think the position in the family is an interesting one isn't it but three three girls as well my dad used to call us the knicker brigade that was it that was my dad's kind of nickname for us all and um yeah my knickers have got progressively bigger than he is obviously but there we are i'm with you on that one so in terms of the career then you know you've had huge amount of success uh but a lot of hard work this hasn't just kind of come easy to you has it what what have been what were the biggest sort of pivotal shifts for you because i can think about a couple of times in my career where it really was a sort of a more of a a jump up shall we say in terms of you know seniority or more responsibility you know but what were they what were a couple of the the big shifts for you do you think that really led you to that sort of big next career jump one of them was my husband got a

30:07Lynn Narraway:job in switzerland working for the um on the olympics and the um the world cup soccer so we decided to go we haven't been married very long and um everybody said oh well you'll never get a job it's so difficult to get a job in Switzerland. But I did, and that's when I worked for American Airlines, setting up the new station at Zurich Airport, going backwards and forwards between Geneva and Zurich. We were there two years, came back to the UK, and I wanted to work for a tour operator. And again, I think I was about 27 by then, 28, and everyone said, oh, I don't think you'll, you've got no experience but somebody gave me the opportunity and you know I never look back from there so I think it's determination but also you sometimes need somebody who believes in you yeah or just give you that that step towards you know where you you see your future going and then the going into cruise was because the tour operator went under so um i had to decide what am i going to carry on doing what i've been doing or doing something totally different and i went for the totally different and that's really when i found my you know passion for the cruise industry from there so um yeah it's interesting how you're you you know i say my eldest daughter you know she's just found her dream job but it's taken her two jobs before that to get there and that's fine that's absolutely right you know you have to try several things I think before you find what you really

32:02Jeannette:really love to do yeah I mean I agree and I think sometimes I'm a very logical person I love a plan I love a spreadsheet you know I'm always sort of right big vision where we're headed and I love all of that right but what I would say is sometimes you just got to give it a go yeah and see where something may lead without actually having everything kind of you can't control everything can you and sometimes things will come left field do you think all right you know like the tour operator going on done okay didn't wouldn't have been great at the time but it then gave you that opportunity to do something totally different so and I think often out of adversity in the moment it can feel pretty pretty grim but actually how often do we look back and go well actually was best thing that ever happened and so you know sometimes people might be listening now or watching you know listening or watching to this and thinking actually i'm having a bit of a tough time what advice would you give to someone who's in a bit of a dark place right now professionally or personally i think find

32:55Lynn Narraway:someone that they can talk to for sure whether that's a colleague or someone a friend or someone that they respect or someone you know in the industry they are but it could be they're just in the wrong the wrong job you know and they just need someone to see them through that stage and and sit down with them and you know make a list your pros your cons and which companies you'd love to work for and then you know take it take it from there yeah um and i think certainly the travel industry everybody's so welcoming and so willing to help each other um and i think that's something you know we can all do for the younger generation especially especially since COVID, I mean, they had a tough time, you know, and I think they maybe need that bit more help than we probably needed when we were that age.

33:56So I think,

33:58Lynn Narraway:I think that's important and I love doing that.

34:02Jeannette:I can see that as well. And I think also, I mean, you, you, you obviously work at the parent company is American company, yeah but you're here based in in the uk and traveling all over the world so so culturally

34:15Lynn Narraway:you get exposed to all different cultures don't you both in terms of the destinations the parent

34:21Jeannette:company being american and where you are in the uk and so approach to failure and things not going right and so i think there's a big difference between and i'm generalizing so it's not all this isn't for every situation but as a general rule I would say Americans tend to be a little bit more open to failure you know they almost well done your business just went under fantastic what did you learn whereas the British approach to stuff like that is it's just it's just not quite as and it's not it's not seen in such a positive light shall we say if things don't go right and what's your approach to sort of dealing with failure or things that don't go right and how you bounce back because you've got you've got that american influence there but you're also british and you've got this kind of a global global perspective because i think

35:11Lynn Narraway:that's where people struggle as well yeah i think i think to your point earlier it is about planning i think um you know i i like to have a plan and i like our team to have a plan to follow and and we often do that in two quarters you know because it's easier to have a plan for you know a quarter of the year rather than trying to do the whole year at once so so definitely a plan I mean failures it's more challenges really and how you come back from something yeah I mean look at COVID for the cruise industry 18 months of not one single ship sailing anywhere and how how we we We dealt with that every day.

36:00Lynn Narraway:The bookings, the rebookings, the no marketing dollars, so having to find creative ways, being more flexible in marketing. The relationships that we had with the media, the media were fantastic. They were kind to us because we'd supported them over the years. So I think it's about finding support and making a new plan, not seeing it as a failure. But seeing it as the next stage, a new adventure, I would definitely say that came from the Challengers. I mean, we had to get all our staff home off the ships. We sailed two cruise ships back to Indonesia and the Philippines to get them home. And then we had crew members on board the ships, 100 on each one who couldn't get home.

36:55Lynn Narraway:so the ship became their home and they they looked after the ship while they were in weymouth and dorset and cyprus barbados mexico wow um so challenging times but here we are you know we got through it the travel industry is very resilient we look at all the things we've had you know the ash cloud and sars and everything over the years but we're still all here and we've all got stories to tell and I think in in in my for Seabourne storytelling is so important and probably for the whole cruise industry is telling those stories as to you know why Seabourne why cruise yeah why why try something different but I think stories about your own journey and career are helpful to the younger generation as well I think yeah giving them that confidence that maybe I didn't have when I was their age but yeah have a bit more now I still get very nervous but do you what situation would make you nervous what kind of things pop up for you that make you oh yeah standing on a stage you know in front of a big conference um my husband always says oh you're all right once you get once you're up there which I usually am but it's I think it's it's being confident in your own knowledge and what you know and remembering you know a lot more than than the audience does and the relationships you have with with other people whether it's on a panel or in a commercial situation or sales situation with with journalists or it's important

38:51Jeannette:it really is it really is and you're right because as some people say oh my god public speaking it's fate worse than death I'd rather die than stand on the stage but actually I think you know to your point the more you do it the easier it is although some nerves is a good thing right because it means you care it means you're kind of you've got the adrenaline and I always think just remember my first line first line first line and not to memorize a speech and it's quite nice if you can get to a place where you're doing a speech without your notes right but not everyone kind of can get that and that's absolutely fine but i think if you can just take that deep breath walk out and know you're open in line then normally it just clicks in i usually have a piece of paper with me and i never look

39:30Lynn Narraway:at it it's just there i just have it yes yeah but it is it does take it does take courage to

39:38Jeannette:to do these things doesn't it and especially like you were saying you know maybe you know the younger the younger lynn 20 years old now like looking back if you're thinking oh god i would never have done that and here you are doing all these amazing things what's been the toughest part of your of your life and career would you say because obviously you know you brought up your girls as well and you're a working mum you know paul had his own business he was entrepreneur and growing his business you know busy lives two big careers going on built you know build bringing the family up as well what was the most challenging do you think for you personally through your professional life apart from like the business stuff like covid which of course was a tough time but i think i

40:19Lynn Narraway:think possibly the traveling was challenging um when the girls were little in hindsight they're fine yeah at the time it's devastating when you're going on yet another work trip i'm lucky that paul did have his own business so he was always at home and he was very flexible we had a fantastic nanny who was with us for eight ten years we're still in touch with her with Ellie so I think in hindsight you know it would it was fine but at the time it didn't it didn't feel like that yeah but otherwise you know I'm lucky I had that. I've always had bosses who've been respectful and encouraging and flexible.

41:14Lynn Narraway:And that's how I try to be with the team that I work with now. And I think that's important. You have to respect each other. And if something's going a little wrong in their lives, and what can you do to to help them especially if they're so loyal to the brand my team are amazing and so we're all trying to it's a small team so if something's not going so well for one member then everybody chips in which which i think is really important well it's like it's coming full

41:55Jeannette:circle to what you were saying earlier isn't it it's about the people it's about the human to human relationships and acknowledging that you know work is one thing we have lives and sometimes things happen that can kind of blow us off track or we just need a little bit of kindness to your point and and i guess as a working mom as well i'm sure you have those i mean i don't have kids so i've never experienced this but i've seen plenty of plenty of people on my team and i always try to be accommodating and understanding as well um but there's i guess there's the motherly guilt right of leaving the kids and then when you're in work, it's hard not to worry about certain things that might be happening at home, or when you're at home, you might have a lot of work pressure coming in.

42:35Jeannette:So I think sometimes it's challenging to be in the moment, isn't it? And how have you managed that? And people talk about balance, and I'm not sure balance actually ever exists, to be honest. I think sometimes you're fully in in this area, then you might be over here balanced over a longer period of time, maybe. But how did you kind of cope with juggling the priorities then apart from the practical stuff yeah i think it comes back to that confidence again

43:01Lynn Narraway:you've got to be confident in what you're doing and the job you're doing you've got to tell yourself i'm doing the best job that i can at the time um you know i've got to hit my targets i've got to do this um the team around you is really important so you've got to get that that right um my my girls now will say they're really proud of me still you know and that means a huge huge deal for me to know that everything I've done over the last 30 years you know that they're proud of that and I'm proud of them for also when they were children just getting on with things as well they love cruising they mean they've been cruising since they were five and seven and they love Seabourn so they've been through all sorts of different cruise lines but I

43:55Jeannette:think they're pretty pleased that I'm now with Seabourn so yeah I think all in

44:02Lynn Narraway:all just be confident and don't try not to worry too much and try not to feel guilty because in 30 years time you won't yeah and a friend a friend told me once you know if you're finding things difficult just say to yourself will I be worrying about that in 10 years time and I find myself thinking about that now over little things you know like a speeding ticket or a parking ticket or will I be worrying about it in 10 years time no I won't so I think that's a really good piece of advice that is a really good piece of advice yeah just to

44:44Jeannette:check in with yourself because I think sometimes we do we sweat the small stuff at times don't we or we can get overawed and especially especially making men a pause like stress about stuff that would never bother me before and anyway all that's going on but um but yeah so so that's one really great piece of advice that you've just given there any other standout advice for you Lynn that's sort of really that's lasted with you I mean that's a brilliant one so you might you might you might stick with that but is there any other great advice that you've received would you say

45:12Lynn Narraway:I think relationships are key for me, whether it's relationships in business, commercial relationships, or friendships. I think building a business on relationships. You talked about spreadsheets earlier. They are really, really important, obviously. And I work for a big corporation. but at the end of the day it's those relationships that we have with our travel partners with our media partners with our colleagues within you know our building carnival house um i think that's what is so important um and we're in an industry where we're you know we're selling memories experiences

46:02Lynn Narraway:dreams, celebrations. So I think sometimes we need to remember that and that the relationships are so important.

46:10Jeannette:Yeah, no, I agree with you. Absolutely. And it's like human to human, isn't it? We're talking about really people. And sometimes it makes me laugh when people say, well, don't take it personally. And it's like, well, business is personal.

46:22Lynn Narraway:That's the whole point.

46:23Jeannette:So yes,

46:24Lynn Narraway:I am taking it personally because I actually give a shit.

46:26Jeannette:I care, you know. So I think

46:28Lynn Narraway:it's an interesting perspective i think you have to care don't you in the travel industry you have to care i think so you have to care about the guests you have to care about your team you have to care about the the the team members on our ships you know about the the destinations that we we visit i think i think that's a really important yeah um well it's not a nice find is it at the end

46:50Jeannette:of the day you know i mean it's a lifestyle choice you know it's very demanding it's long hours you You have to be able to deal with anything at any particular moment, whether it's a death on board or an ash cloud or a 9-11 or a coat. You know, all these things kind of come to test us. So it's certainly never a clock in, clock out kind of role. And it does become intertwined with your life a little bit, doesn't it, as well, those relationships and travel. And aren't we fortunate? But it means you have to love what you do. You do. It's not straightforward.

47:20Lynn Narraway:I think you almost become the brand, you know. I feel that what I do is representing the brand, Seabourn brand, so I need to follow those brand guidelines and what is the expectation for Seabourn. And I think our teams really feel that, you know, we really feel that we are seaborne. We're there for a reason. We're there to deliver those seaborne moments and those experiences. And that's really, really important to us. And that's the same across all eight of the carnival brands. It's, you know, the word happiness, you'll find that in most of our brand descriptions. so I think that's what travel is that's what cruising is it's delivering those holidays and happiness and experiences yeah and actually you know your personal

48:23Jeannette:brand as you've just alluded to there you know it has to you if you work for an organization where you share the same values then your personal brand naturally comes out doesn't it you know because at the end of the day I mean it a great client of ours and the CEO of the premium is Dell economy for a core Duncan O 'Rourke he always says we are custodians yeah we are custodians of the world we're doing this forever and the brand but while we're here we absolutely are here to give our energy passion emotion we will move on and do something else because that's normal isn't it we're not going to be in these roles forever into eternity but we're custodians and then we take that

49:05Lynn Narraway:responsibility and the brands will evolve it'll change absolutely you know usually for the better or the circumstances but yes you're absolutely right while we're here we do the best we possibly can yeah with with the teams we have for for our guests yeah and how do you keep your i'm going to

49:25Jeannette:come to some final questions in a minute lynn but how do you keep yourself in good shape you know because you look amazing. She's like, she never bloody ages, right? Always super glam, always, you know, beautifully turned out. But how do you look after yourself when you've got a lot going on like you have?

49:41Lynn Narraway:Well, I love living by the sea. That's been amazing. So we do a lot of walking a lot along the sea. We have some good friends on the island. So we're often walking. I do play tennis not as much as I like to but we have some courts just at the back of us which I love I'm not ice skating anymore because unfortunately they don't have an ice drink on the Isle of Wight anymore but just generally you know walking keeping fit seeing friends you know we love hosting we when you when you live by the sea you get a lot of visitors at weekends so weekends are pretty busy and at carnival there's a lot going on in the building you know from yoga to you know all sorts of well-being initiatives which is great and I think that's really really important when you've got a busy job you keep that in perspective.

50:47Lynn Narraway:I'm not a gym person, I'm more a racquetball person. That comes back from what you were saying, your childhood, doing all the sports and the

50:56Jeannette:tennis. I did play golf when I was younger and I wasn't so bad at it, so maybe one day.

51:05Lynn Narraway:It's a long game. Yes, I know. I won't be doing that at the moment, but maybe one day. Take after my mum.

51:13Jeannette:Exactly. So there's been a lot going on. If you could describe this year in one word, Lynn, what would it be and why?

51:18Lynn Narraway:Oh gosh, one word. I think probably proud, pride, proud. I think in many respects, you know, pride for the team that I work with, pride for the Seaborn brand, pride for my daughters and where they are in their lives. pride for my husband who puts up with me every day meets me at the ferry every evening walks me to the ferry every morning um so yeah i think i think pride is is the word i go for excellent

51:55Jeannette:nice shout out for paul and what are your daughter's names uh misha and sasha there we go misha and sasha and paul you see special special mention for you thank you um no that's that's fantastic and we have a playlist a brave bold brilliant playlist on spotify lynn so what song are we going to add to the playlist oh that's easy that's brown eyed girl van morrison

52:15Lynn Narraway:yeah i love that song and um myself and our two daughters all have brown eyes so there you go oh wonderful and we've not had that so that's very good that's a new edition that's really cool

52:29Jeannette:and brave bold brilliantly this is the name of the podcast it's also the proud brand of our business as well now but when you hear that what what does it mean to you it means it probably means don't don't give up um be the best that you possibly can um be kind um and i think if you

52:53Lynn Narraway:do all those things you will be you will be brilliant what a perfect way to end oh thank Thank you.

53:00Jeannette:It's been amazing. Thank you. It's come really quickly. I know, I know. We've been talking for hours.

53:08Jeannette:What an empowering and thought-provoking conversation with Lyn Narroway. Her journey, it does remind us, doesn't it, that leadership isn't just about strategy. It's really about creating those moments that matter, fostering connection and inspiring people to be their best. You know, and Lynn's story is one of longevity. You know, her work with Seaborne shows how vision, passion and that commitment to excellence can really elevate an entire industry and of course the people within it. So if today's episode inspired you, please take a moment to rate, review and share the Brave Bob Brilliant podcast.

53:48Jeannette:And if you're ready to elevate your own leadership, strategy or mindset, then connect with me. I'd love to help you create a business and life that really are brave, bold and brilliant. So until next time, keep pushing those boundaries and, of course, leading with courage. I really hope you've enjoyed this episode of Brave, Bold, Brilliant. Remember, check out our new website, www.brave-bold-brilliant.com. You're going to find loads of resources on there that's going to help you with your leadership journey and with the businesses that you're trying to scale up and grow. So take care, everyone.

54:25Jeannette:And remember, there are no limits to your growth, but it is by being brave and bold that you're going to unlock your brilliance.