1/26/26: Trump Admin Lies On MN, Second Amendment Destroyed, Glenn Greenwald Sounds Off On ICE

26:39And I do think – yeah, go ahead. When Chicago – I think it was CBP in Chicago when they killed Miramar – not killed. They shot Miramar Martinez five times. She survived those shots. They initially said it was a ramming attack and ten vehicles surrounded a CBP officer, putting him in fear of his life. We reported last week that now they obtained surveillance footage of a nearby business. Complete and total lie. It's gotten so bad that the free press, Barry Weiss's news organization, ran a column called The Lies of Christy Nell. Like, that's how bad it's gotten. People keep using that 1984 quote.

27:20You know, the last thing the party asked you to do was to disbelieve what you were seeing with your own eyes. And the gap between the videos of what we're seeing in these incidents combined with the over-the-top rhetoric, like even with Renee Good, the initial DHS statements were, this was a domestic terrorist who tried to do a ramming of our agents. you can now people can debate whether or not his body was in the front or on the side of the vehicle as she started to accelerate nobody who watched that without with fresh eyes be like oh yeah that's a domestic terrorist doing a ramming attack like nobody would say that nobody and but that was the description and so that that gap is opening up this extraordinary credibility gap which then like you said, they're trying to fill with justifications like, oh, well, if you show up armed to a protest, if you touch a federal official, you're going to be killed.

28:21And you should understand that. FAFO, be like, whoa, hold on a second here. FAFO is very different. Okay. FAFO is I pull a gun out in the middle of an arrest and then you get that. That is not the same thing. Right. This is not F.A.F.O. You're within your Second Amendment and First Amendment rights. That's not F.A. Well, you know, everyone's apparently now a Kyle Rittenhouse is a criminal, by the way, under this standard, which, by the way, that was a textbook definition of F.A.F.O. He has a gun. Sure. You know, I'm in the liberal line at the time was he shouldn't have even been there. It's like, well, people try to chase him, literally try to kill him.

28:54He fired and he shot in self-defense and he was acquitted at trial. I think correctly as a result of that's F.A.F.O. This is in no way rises to that standard. If F.A.F.O. is if fucking around is bringing a gun to a protest, we're fucked, actually, you know, as a country. And I can't believe it, especially after watching so many of these protests over the years where, again, I have no problem with people bringing a gun to a protest as long as they are doing so illegally, peacefully and are exercising their right, which they always should be able to. I have argued here for too long against red flag laws and against Second Amendment gun protections and all this just to watch apparently a fucking Republican administration come in here and say that this guy deserved to die for doing absolutely nothing wrong whenever it came to his gun rights.

29:46Now, whenever we continue to talk about this, I think it's very important. And I don't want to diminish his death in any way. I'm not saying that his death is an enormously consequential story because it obviously is. It's not just about the bad shoot. It is the lies. It's the saying he brandished his weapon. They called him a domestic terrorist. Stephen Miller specifically said that. They said he brandished them. They didn't. And now the line is literally that because he brought a gun there that he intended to massacre people because he had two magazines. Any gun owner out there, you know exactly how ridiculous the idea of having a gun with two magazine, which is very common for people who conceal carry, is in any way some sort of intent.

30:25There is no intent ascribed to that behavior whatsoever under any reasonable standard for anybody of the tens of millions of us who are gun owners here in the United States. And then finally, really what it comes down to is that because they have no defense is that they are also not handling this in not just appropriate in any standard way, like you're saying about some sort of investigation. I mean, I think it's insane that a judge even have to be like, oh, don't destroy evidence. But the fact of the matter is we have to be honest here. The DHS immediately came out and said we're going to investigate ourselves.

30:56OK, their FBI said that they weren't going to investigate the case. You need to look at Kirstie Noem and Bavine and be like, are these credible people who in any way could, you know, could conduct an investigation? And you're talking there about the social contract. While it's obvious that many police departments investigate officer involved shootings, you know what they usually do? They take those agents or the police officer. He's put on leave. Just for psychological reasons alone. For psychological reasons and for an invest, even in the clearest cut, like body cam, gun gun out. You still do it because it's treated.

31:29Again, it's always treated as if it might be murder. You investigate. You clear the officer. The CBP commissioner, sorry, the Border Patrol chief, Bovino, he says these agents have been have left Minneapolis for their own safety. But they are still on the job and they're actively working as of today. Every single one of them actively working today. Again, like you just said, gunshot residue for the guy who took the arm. Is that going to happen? What's going to happen for the people who pulled the trigger? I mean, you know, at the very least, like, dude, you need to lawyer up from your union. You need to sit down and potentially a hostile interview and be like, what were you thinking?

32:06In the moment, video shows this. Could you see it? Line of sight says that you could. I mean, none of that, to our knowledge, has happened at all. They're claiming that they're going to have an investigation. Bullshit. Haven't seen any of that. The only reason there might be, which we'll get to in a little bit, is that even congressional Republicans now are like, whoa, we're going to need a transparent investigation. And then finally, I think we need to zoom out here again. As I've said, I have spoken at length about liberal protest norms. And would I be out there blowing whistles and all that?

32:35No, absolutely not. But but but and that's why at this point, this is where the Trump people have lost is that when you are going to get to a point where you as an American are being labeled as domestic terrorists by your government for bringing a gun. And then you're going to try and say that if you bring a gun to any protest whatsoever that you are liable to be killed. No, no, no, no, no. This is very different. And this is also fundamentally different, I would say, from the Renee Good case because – and, Ryan, I think you can even admit this. There was a question, especially in the immediate – not about ramming, about whether – like you could see a reasonable doubt situation.

33:12There was a live debate, and I think it's – yeah, there was a live debate. And the point that I would always make what I made in the immediate aftermath is I was like, guys, you need to look at the case law on this. There's like reasonable doubt is a very like is a standard there that usually sides on the piece of office. I don't even think he handled it well, like to be very, very clear. I'm saying, though, if you could see, you know, you could maybe and then there's like potential video of it. That's not even remotely, you know, in the in the realm of this, because at that point we're arguing about behavior.

33:40But there's a potential legal tree here about like awful but lawful type situation potentially could have been one of those here. It's not a question. Yeah. We'll speak to Janine Younis later, the civil liberties attorney, and she has said that she even sees a difference, a distinction between these two. She felt like the Renee Goodkilling was unjustified and that she could get a conviction. But she said this one is even clearer, as she put it. Yeah. And again, I mean, it's not even just about it being clear for the actions of the video. It is the response now from the United States government.

34:14I mean, immediately putting out and maybe this is worth, you know, the tick tock for those of you who are not just like following the news all the time in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. They just decided to tweet out a picture of a gun on a car seat as if it proves anything. Right. As if it proves anything. So what if you had a gun? So what did he pull it out? That's not a crime. Yeah, and Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O 'Hare kind of responded to this federal argument that, well, we had to kill him because he had a weapon with his own response. Matt, can we put up, I think it's the 15th LMB-15 here, Brian O 'Hare.

34:50You know of that Preddy was assaulting the federal officers as the Border Patrol chief claims. Well, I've seen the videos just as thousands of people around the country have, and the videos speak for themselves. I think it's deeply concerning the things that are being said. This is an individual that was a city resident. It appears that he was present exercising his First Amendment rights to record law enforcement activity and also exercising his Second Amendment rights to lawfully be armed in a public space in the city. So I think very obviously there are serious questions that are being raised.

35:33And I think the greater issue is even if there is an investigation that ultimately proves that at the time of the shooting it was legally justified, I don't think that even matters at this point because there is so much outrage and concern around what is happening in the city. What do you mean it doesn't matter at this point? You mean the situation on the ground is already, the impression is left? People have had enough. This is the third shooting now in less than three weeks. The Minneapolis Police Department went the entire year last year, recovering about 900 guns from the street, arresting hundreds and hundreds of violent offenders, and we didn't shoot anyone.

36:17And now this is the second American citizen that's been killed. It's the third shooting within three weeks. People have been speaking out, saying that this was going to happen again. And I think everyone is kind of waiting for folks on both sides to come together and just figure this thing out. This is not sustainable. This police department has only 600 police officers. We are stretched incredibly thin. This is taking an enormous toll, trying to manage all of this chaos on top of having to be the police department for a major city. Let's pull out of this. I think this is also an important point and something that I have.

36:56I've argued with Crystal endlessly about ICE and all of this. At this point, it is actually inarguable that you're creating more chaos. And I've talked I've said even, oh, look, it ignores the chaos of what it means to have people who are present in your country illegally. Yes, we can have debates all day long about sanctuary city, which look, I'm happy to hold that for another time period. Even the president, by the way, his only real response after the shooting was just to say, hey, we should pass a law to end sanctuary. Fine. That needs to be resolved through the democratic process. And that cannot involve a simultaneous not just this situation, but the fallout now, which you own 100 percent.

37:38And, you know, if we're going to resolve this through democratic means, what we have watched is that while, yes, Trump obviously has a mandate or had a mandate whenever he was elected to seal the border, to to mass support people who are here illegally. It has moved beyond that in these multiple cases where and this is where, again, you know, if you have to be watching this, you can see this wasn't even a guy who was here illegally. And in fact, he was a U.S. citizen. And in fact, look, again, I'll defend deportation if it's actually happening. Well, you know, the actual result which has come out is that the details of the raid, which they said that it was going to be happening, was not even correct.

38:26They said that they were doing a targeted operation against a specific – and they named this illegal citizen – or sorry, illegal alien. They said we're going to go after the – then the Minnesota Department of Corrections is like, I don't even know what you're talking about. This guy is literally not in our custody. This is completely incorrect. You actually released him back in 2018. It's like, well, if that's a shoddy process behind all of this, yeah, no, sorry, especially if it's going to result in the death of an American. Again, not just the debt, but the killing of this guy after he's being disarmed.

38:57And then the subsequent response is basically it was his fault for bringing a gun. No, you are so far beyond immigration enforcement at this point. And it's obvious now we're going to do an entire thing about backlash from the public. Good, by the way. Good. They should be backlash against something like this. But I think this is actually a watershed moment. I think this is the day I think that was the day that Trump actually did lose on the question of immigration. And we are so far beyond in that in this moment now, because it's not even the subsequent debate topic, because now it's all questions of civil liberties of two way.

39:40And, you know, I guess to be fair to you and Chris, you guys have been talking about this from the beginning. I think that's what O 'Hare is saying when he says, even if an investigation comes out and determines that this was justified, people have had it. Like people have seen what they have seen. Three shootings in two and a half weeks. People don't want this chaos. Because nothing that an investigation can determine is going to unwind what happened. We all saw what happened. Period. We don't want this to happen in our streets. Your point about the alleged target of this alleged targeted operation is a key one.

40:22Yeah, they said that this was a violent criminal. They probably called him a pedophile that they were trying to go after. And they put a name out. Anybody. You don't have to be the Department of Corrections in Minneapolis to search the Department of Corrections database. Like federal officials complain they're not working with us. You can search state prison records and find out if the guy has any record. Like law enforcement at the federal level has access to that data. The fact that they put that name out without either checking whether it was true that he had a criminal record. And it wouldn't be embarrassing that actually it was the Trump administration that released him in 2018.

41:04or B, they don't care that they just put the information out and it might be wrong, it might be correct, but they don't actually care. I don't know which one is more disturbing, the incompetence or actual malicious lying. But either way, to your point, they have blown their mandate. They still have the mandate, I think, for the border because people are like, okay, fine, border. If we were seeing people gunned down at the border. Yeah, it'd be different. then that would be a different question. But we're not seeing those kinds of images. But the mandate for rounding up people outside of grocery stores and Home Depots and restaurants and just plucking them off the streets, to the extent that they had that at all, which I would quibble with whether or not they actually did, but let's say they did, they don't have it anymore because of the way they carried it out.

41:57Because it's not just the way that they carried it out. It is the subsequent blowback effect and the way they're treating people who are protesting. You can even do that in a way where you're not literally shooting people. I mean, and then immediately accusing anybody who speaks out against it of domestic terrorism. Domestic terrorism is a very serious term, a very serious accusation, which we're now being watched actually be created into a surveillance state, which we're gonna be talking about with Glenn. Okay, we've got Janine Younis standing by. She's gonna talk to us about 2A. She's gonna give her some of her analysis on the shooting.

42:31So let's get to it.

43:01L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to The A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

43:59Search Two Guys Five Rings and listen now. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. On a recent episode, I sat down with Nick Jonas, singer, songwriter, actor, and global superstar. The thing I would say to my younger self is congratulations. You get to marry Priyanka Chopra Jonas. And also, you know, your daughter's incredible. That's beautiful, man. Yeah, thank you. That's so beautiful. I can see that got you a little... Yeah, for sure. Our daughter, she came to the world under sort of very intense circumstances, which I've not really talked about ever. Growing up on Disney in front of a million, how did that shape your sense of self?

44:43I went blank. I hit a bad note, then I couldn't kind of recover. And I built up this idea that music and being a musician was my whole identity. I had to sort of relearn who I was if you took this thing away. Who am I? Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're very excited now to be joined by Janine Younis. She's a repeat guest here, and she is the National Legal Director at the ADC, very principled civil liberties lawyer. And she's here to talk to us for her reaction, not only to this horrific aftermath of this shooting, but of the implications for our civil liberties.

45:22So Janine, thank you very much for making the time, and it's good to see you again. Oh, thank you so much for having me back. Absolutely. So, Janine, Ryan and I just had a very spirited, I think, criticism of the administration that's putting it lightly of the way that this has all gone down. But, of course, we are always reliant on legal experts. You yourself, a former defense attorney, you gave us your impressions immediately in the aftermath of the Renee Good case. Could you just break down what you see here in this particular case in the death of Alex Preddy? So in the Renee Good case, I acknowledged I think there's some arguable ambiguity, at least with respect to the first shot, that, you know, maybe a defense attorney could convince a jury.

46:04I still think that that was a bad shooting and shouldn't have happened. But this, I would say, is a clear cut case of murder. I mean, he was pretty obviously executed. I watched the video a number of times because the fact that everybody was wearing brown made it confusing for me for a little bit. But it became quite clear that he basically didn't, I don't think he did anything wrong at all. Still, you don't necessarily deserve to be shot for doing something a little bit wrong. But he, you know, he was not aggressive with officers. I don't think he even broke any laws. He was trying to protect two women from their aggression.

46:38They pepper spray all three and then tackle him. And he's like writhing on the ground. And then it looks as though that one of the officers takes a gun off him. and then another officer shoots him nine times. I mean, that's just an execution. I don't know. The fact anyone would try to defend this is astonishing to me. In the first segment, we were talking about the notion of passive resistance, which is a term that police use in their training. It's the kind of most minimal level of resistance, and it means that he's not remotely offensively going after any officers. in this case he there's video from the front he's being hit in his you know face and head by what looks to be like a maglite which if anybody's ever been either that or a billy club it looks more like a maglite if anybody's ever been hit with one of those those are hurt extremely heavy solid things you know and then filled with like d batteries that are gonna that could cause like irreparable damage to you and so as you said writhing around on the ground you you're trying to protect your body.

47:45It's just a natural impulse to protect your body. And that can be categorized somehow as passive resistance because you're not just, you're not, you're not not moving. But nothing in the police training justifies elevating that to capital punishment, like execution on the spot. Have you, you know, I think we got accustomed to seeing a lot of videos of police shootings throughout the kind of 2010s as that era rose. where does this rank on the most blatant executions that you've seen? I would say it's the most blatant one I've seen. I haven't seen anything like that from the United States. It's, I mean, and the standard for self-defense for cops is basically the same, or law enforcement is basically the same as for civilians, except they might be held to a slightly higher standard, which is basically you're not entitled to use force unless you reasonably believe that you're at imminent risk of death or serious physical injury.

48:46You're not allowed to use deadly physical force. And the force has to be proportionate and it has to be necessary to stop the threat. So I don't see even any argument here. I guess, you know, if this case ever goes to trial, which is probably unlikely, very sadly because that's a miscarriage of justice. But I don't, I guess the cop could probably argue that he was confused. or something because someone yelled gun. And that's probably the best defense that he's going to have. But I don't see a jury acquitting. That seems unlikely to me. Yeah. But Janine, what's crazy is that that's not even what they're going with, because you could see that again.

49:24I don't think you know him. The justification is, well, he had a gun and that's liable to get you killed. Apparently. Let's go ahead and cue up Mac. Our great FBI director, Kash Patel, who has laid out a case, again, the top law enforcement officer of the United States saying you cannot bring a firearm to any sort of protest that you want. Let's take a listen. I mean, thousands of people are marching through Minneapolis. They are targeting the Border Patrol. I mean, it feels like the rhetoric and the the protesting is all ramping up. What is your advice to the people right now who are outraged that this is a second killing at the hands of Border Patrol in two weeks.

50:10As Christy said, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It's that simple. You don't have that right to break the law and incite violence. We will, of course, always protect your First Amendment speech. And if you peacefully protest, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But you have seen a trend here, not just in Minnesota, but across the country in these protests turning into violent scenarios and people attacking law enforcement. That's when you go over the line and that's when law enforcement steps in. Janine, I mean, again, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protests you want.

50:46It's that simple. You don't have a right to break the law. He in no way broke the law. And in fact, we have an absolute right to do that. Your reaction as a lawyer. Well, you do have a right to bring a gun to a protest under the Second Amendment. The Supreme Court actually recently affirmed that in a case called Bruin. So I don't know what they're talking about. I mean, a lot of right wing people brought guns to anti-COVID protests and, you know, nobody claimed then that you couldn't bring a gun to a protest. I think what they're trying to do is they and I saw this during the last year when they were arresting people like Mahmoud Khalil is they try to kind of blur the line.

51:23So they make statements like the protesters are violent. And so therefore, it's OK that we shot him. Like each situation is judged individually from a legal perspective. Mahmoud Khalil didn't do anything violent at all. The fact that other people have protested, it doesn't may have doesn't make him responsible for that. And likewise, this guy clearly didn't pull a gun on anybody. He was clearly not being violent. So you can't sort of use the conduct of other protesters to say that it was OK to shoot him. Yeah. I mean, one of the things we've seen. Sorry, Ryan, go ahead. Go ahead. No, you know, go ahead, because I'll follow up.

51:58Well, one of the things I wanted to flag here is also the immediate aftermath of this statement from Kirsten Noem. Guys, can we go ahead and roll B3 where the DHS secretary talks specifically about brandishing a weapon, which is a legal term that's waving a gun, threatening an individual. That's actually something. It's a crime against federal law, but also trying to pair it, like you're saying, with a violent action of the intent of simply having a gun on your person, which is an absolute right. Let's take a listen. Did he brandish a gun? And at what point did law enforcement retrieve the gun and also the magazines from him?

52:33Can you offer clarity on this individual showed up to impede a law enforcement operation and assaulted our officers? They responded according to their training and took action to defend the officer's life and those of the public around him. And I don't know of any peaceful protester that shows up with a gun and ammunition rather than a sign. This is a violent riot when you have someone showing up with weapons and are using them to assault law enforcement officers. I mean, Janine, this is something out of China or out of Iran or out of Israel or any of these places where we've seen mass crackdown is that the president is that mere having a weapon on your person is an act of violence itself.

53:16This is literally out of third world dictatorships, the same standard. Yeah. And they're asking us to ignore our own eyes. I mean, or I mean, and what we can see clearly from the video, there's no he did not assault anyone. Anybody can see that. Yes. And frankly, a lot of people who defended the Renee Good shooting, especially on the conservative side of the political spectrum, are not defending this one. I've seen a lot of people say that that one might have been OK, but this one, no. What about it? It's not even about OK. It's like, look, like you said, you could see a case for the first shot.

53:49You could do not to agree with it and you could look at case law. But on this, it's just completely worlds apart different. Go ahead, Ryan. Yeah. So setting aside all the like obvious, like blatant lies that she told there. what you often hear from the administration is that these protesters are, quote unquote, impeding that impeding law enforcement as they're carrying out their kind of lawful enforcement duties. What is the law around what protesters are allowed to do legally and when does it cross into actual impeding? I think anybody who's seen the video sees that he's waving cars through, he's filming like there's no doesn't apply here.

54:28But so like outside of this scenario, what what could make it actually apply? Like if you were talking to a client who asked you, like, I want to go to a protest, how do I make sure I'm within the law? So there are two sort of separate analyses. One is impeding their enforcement operation. And that came into play in the Renee Good shooting, where the argument was that she was blocking them. So they had the right to arrest her. Still doesn't give them the right to shoot her. That's sort of a separate issue. But so if your activity is substantially interfering with an enforcement operation, that might give ICE officers a grounds to arrest you because normally they don't have the ability to enforce state law or, you know, they're really just there to enforce immigration and customs law.

55:11So there is an exception if you are a U.S. citizen or otherwise lawfully in the country but are impeding their operation in a significant way. So I didn't think that Renee Goods rose to that level. But then there are other laws about protesting. So you can't, you know, you can't block traffic. You can't even if that wasn't impeding the law enforcement operation, just sort of standard things. You can't you can't harass people. You know, you can't kind of break the normal laws that we observe in society. if you were. Yeah, I mean, you can't some of the vandalization, for instance, that happened during the pro-Palestine protests is probably not defensible from a legal perspective, but none of that gives them the right to shoot you.

55:56That's still, you know, but obviously that should only be used in extraordinary circumstances where it's necessary to save someone's life. Right. Yeah. Final thing that I just have to play here. You know, I have our Treasury Secretary Again, literally adopting the language of some of the most extreme gun control activists I've ever seen. Guys, can we go ahead and roll a B2 and have Janine's reaction? About what's happened in Minneapolis as a member of the Trump cabinet. Are you concerned to see another American citizen ends up dead, shot by federal law enforcement? Jonathan, it's a tragedy when anyone dies.

56:32But I can tell you the situation on the ground there is being stirred up by Governor Walz. I was out there two weeks ago. Governor Walz declined to provide a security detail for me to go into the Minnesota Capitol with the state police. So he is fomenting chaos because there is substantial waste, fraud, and abuse. My job as Treasury Secretary is to investigate that. And I think that this chaos is going out there. And again, I am sorry that this gentleman is dead, but he did bring a nine millimeter semi-automatic weapon with two cartridges to what was supposed to be a peaceful protest. I think that there are a lot of paid educators who are genning things up and the governor has not done a good job of tamping this down.

57:22Yeah. I mean, as you know, he was an ICU nurse, worked for the Veterans Administration, and there's no evidence that he brandished the gun whatsoever. But he brought a gun. He brought a gun. Have you ever gone to a protest, Jonathan? I mean, we do have a Second Amendment in this country. Jonathan, have you ever gone to a protest? I mean, have you gone to a protest? I mean, no, actually, as a reporter covering it. Okay, I've been to a protest. Guess what? I didn't bring a gun. I brought a billboard. Wow. I mean, again, I mean, Janine, as you said, one of the reasons I like talking to you, Janine, is you defended and fought back against a lot of the, in my opinion, probably your opinion too, a lot of the tyrannical stuff that surrounded COVID.

58:01You've talked specifically about civil liberties. So you will remember, Gene, as I do. We have brains. We also saw many COVID protests, one in Michigan that I absolutely recall in which people brought guns even to the state capital. Of course, yes, the gun control people were furious about it. But as you and I both know, that is our right. And none of them were arrested for doing so because it was not a violation of the law. Yeah. I mean, the hypocrisy is just off the charts. And they're just, in my opinion, signaling to their base that they don't really have any principles. They don't really care about civil liberties.

58:37This is just about scoring political points. I mean, I will say I do agree with him on one point, which is that there could be more done by Minnesota to sort of diffuse the situation. And one thing I think they should be doing is having state law enforcement out there to keep the ICE officers in check. But because they don't want to get involved at all, they're refusing to do that. And so I think both sides are really inflaming the situation. Of course, I'm not comparing. I'm not comparing the two because shooting people is just absolutely unacceptable. And running cover for that on the administration's part is just beyond the pale.

59:11Right. Yeah. And, you know, I had a similar thought. I did hear from the Minneapolis PD chief, though. He made a point which is kind of relevant is you've got three thousand. I say he said he's like, we only have six hundred sworn officers on our force. He's like, we literally can't do that, which is, you know, I mean, it's a fair point. Right. I mean, I hadn't fully considered it, but I was like, yeah, I mean, he's not wrong. Like, if you have five to one ratio in the city, like, what can you do exactly? Yeah, maybe Mom Donnie should send some. NYPD's got, what, 5 ,000, 6 ,000 people in force, and there's only about 1 ,000 that work at a time?

59:44Like, yeah, that's funny. Last thing. New York City can be like the Cuba, like helping other cities. Helping the Angolans. Last thing I did want to ask you about, which was a hot topic before all of this shooting, is let's go and put B5 up here on the screen again. We would like your interpretation. There is an ICE memo which instructs officers to enter homes without a judge's warrant. The administration is arguing that they can enter a home based upon something called an administrative warrant. This is a bit confusing. Could you break it down for us and how extraordinary the situation is or isn't?

1:00:26Right. So an administrative warrant is not signed by a judge, which is a very important thing. You know, typical search warrants or arrest warrants are signed by a judge. The judge has signed off that the officers, police officers, have shown that there's probable cause to conduct a search or do the arrest. An administrative warrant is signed in the immigration context by an ICE officer. So there's no checks and balances on that. It's just it's just the executive branch saying I have the right to do what I want. Can you explain that? So like an ICE officer can sign a warrant. Like, what does that mean?

1:00:57He can say I have probable cause under my own belief that I can go and arrest this person for violations of immigration law. Yeah, it's actually little known that immigration, the whole immigration system is within the executive branch. So immigration judges are not actually independent members of the judiciary. They are part of the executive, part of DOJ. And that's one reason they're, in my opinion, quite bad. They tend to just rubber stamp whatever the executive is, which makes it very important to have recourse to the federal court system, which unfortunately the Third Circuit just restricted in the Khalil case.

1:01:29But that's another story. I won't go there. So they're arguing that they can enter people's homes without a warrant in order to execute the administrative warrants saying that you can remove this person because they're not lawfully in the country. That's just false. The Supreme Court has never said that. No court in the United States has ever said that. They've been citing this case from the Eighth Circuit called Lucas, where a prison inmate had escaped and was hiding in a home. The officers had information he was in a home, and they used an administrative warrant to enter the home. But that was kind of the warrant was almost besides the point because there's something called the exigent circumstances doctrine where you can enter a home if you have if the police have information that there's an ongoing emergency.

1:02:10So like an example I've used is they have information there's a child being a missing child in this house and being tortured. OK, we can't like wait for the judge to get a warrant. Very, very extraordinary circumstances and a dangerous prison inmate escaping would fall within that, in my opinion. But just someone who's not lawfully in the country being in a home doesn't come close to qualifying. That would just completely eviscerate. The exception would become the rule then. So this is a complete misapplication of the law, and it's just simply wrong. And the conservatives, mostly conservatives, saying this on social media and other places are just they're not being honest.

1:02:50Yeah. Any last questions, Ryan? No. All right. Janine, thank you so, so much for joining us, for breaking all of this down. We've got Glenn Greenwald standing by, so let's get to him. Seems like just yesterday that the Two Guys Five Rings podcast was in Paris for the Olympics. And now we're heading to Milan for the 2026 Milan Cortina Olympic Winter Games. I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. and will join athletes from 93 countries as Two Guys Five Rings hits the Italian Alps for the 2026 Milan Cortina Olympic Winter Games. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Did we mention it's free? Search Two Guys Five Rings and listen now.

1:03:32Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated and Black America was at a breaking point. rioting and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.

1:04:17This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the Unpurposed podcast. On a recent episode, I sat down with Nick Jonas, singer, songwriter, actor, and global superstar. The thing I would say to my younger self is congratulations. You get to marry Priyanka Chopra Jonas. And also, you know, your daughter's incredible. That's beautiful, man. Yeah, thank you. That's so beautiful. I can see that got you a little...

1:04:57Yeah, for sure. Our daughter, she came to the world under sort of very intense circumstances, which I've not really talked about ever. Growing up on Disney in front of a million, how did that shape your sense of self? I went blank. I hit a bad note, then I couldn't kind of recover. And I built up this idea that music and being a musician was my whole identity. I had to sort of relearn who I was if you took this thing away. Who am I? Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joining us now is great friend of the show, Glenn Greenwald, to further break down all of this insanity that's going on with ICE here in the United States.

1:05:40Glenn, it's good to see you. Thanks for joining us. Great to be with you guys. Absolutely. I mean, the audience has wanted you to come on and just give me a good slap and education. And so here we go again, audience. You're getting exactly what you want. Glenn coming on my own show. Another kick of the mule coming. Humiliate me. It's the only reason I come on. If you weren't here, I wouldn't bother. I know that. I know that. Just to come on and be abusive to you is really the main motivation. But it's edifying. It's edifying for me. Perhaps that's just something about me. But OK, let's go ahead and start very seriously with the new video, Glenn, that's making the rounds of an ICE protester in Portland, Maine.

1:06:15She tells someone that she she's being told by an agent she's a domestic terrorist. And he said he's going to, quote, add her to a nice little database. Let's take a listen to this video. It's not illegal to record. Yeah, that's what we're doing. Yeah. Why are you taking my information down? Because we have a nice little database. Oh, good. And now you're considered a domestic terrorist. We're videotaping you? Are you crazy? Glenn, this seems to fit with the larger pattern now of a, quote, database being kept on American citizens, the labeling of domestic terrorism. This is a far encroachment here.

1:06:55Not only are civil liberties of the U.S. surveillance state. How do you see this in that broader context surrounding ICE and the entire situation happening right now? Yeah, I mean, if it were just that, you could dismiss it as kind of like a poorly trained, unprofessional ICE agent kind of making a sardonic comment. But we're hearing exactly the same things from the highest levels of not just ICE and Homeland Security, but the Trump administration as well. We're hearing every time, for example, the last two times that ICE or border security have killed an American citizen under extremely dubious and I would say murderous circumstances.

1:07:31The immediate response from people like Stephen Miller and Christian Ome is to label them domestic terrorists. They have clearly been instructed, these ICE agents have, to be far more aggressive, to be less constrained. I don't think they're even trained in terms of constitutional legal constraints. But even if they had been, they're clearly being instructed to disregard those, kind of be the kind of guys who get their hands dirty. They're all like new recruits. But then on top of this, you do have a concerted effort by the Trump administration. It's hardly new, of course, but it's really concerted to augment and to expand and to centralize in the hands of Palantir, this domestic security state where surveillance state where everybody has kind of a dossier.

1:08:16Everybody's put into a database. If you even make a peep of dissent or protest, they feel justified in doing that. So it's clearly part of a larger, not just ethos at the highest levels of our government, but also policy choices that are reflected in that agent's comments. And so, Glenn, our civil liberties are obviously rooted in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that's attached to it, but they really get their animating force by our culture, our cultural acceptance of them to the extent that culturally we no longer expect certain civil liberties to be respected by the government. then the government just surges right in and encroaches on those civil liberties.

1:08:58So can you talk about where we've come in the last, say, half century around the question of building databases and this type of surveillance? Because I think some people would say, well, you know, it's a government. They want to make they want to make a list. They can go ahead and make a list. But what is what are the rules about the government making lists related to American citizens? Yeah, I mean, a couple of things, you know, obviously the Snowden reporting was primarily motivated by the anger that not just Edward Snowden, but a lot of people inside the U.S. security state ended up harboring as a result of violating what had long been considered the great taboo of allowing this part of our government after World War II, the U.S.

1:09:41security state to kind of take hold, to grow without any democratic accountability, without transparency, the understanding that it was dangerous. And the one rule that was supposed to constrain it at in all circumstances was that whatever it is you're doing can't be turned inward, can't be turned domestically on the American citizenry. It's for adversary states, even for allied states. But it can't be a security force that surveils our own people, that is intended to keep our own people in line in a way that the Constitution was designed to prohibit. And, of course, that's exactly what was happening after 9-11 that led to people like Edward Snowden, but other people as well, like William Binney and a lot of other these whistleblowers from the U.S.

1:10:20security state to come forward and and say this is the one thing that we were supposed to never have. And there there aren't really any rules around it for a lot of different reasons. The courts have kind of deferred to the executive branch. Both parties succeeded in preventing any real legislative reform in the wake of the Snowden revelations, which allowed the security state domestically to continue to grow. But, you know, one thing I was thinking about actually this morning was the fact that, you know, I was kind of pointing out the oddity of the right, the American right suddenly cheering for and even demanding armed federal agents on the street.

1:10:53Because if we look at the politics of 1990s, of course, Bill Clinton was president then. This kind of anti-federal government strain was very dominant on the right in the wake of things like Randy Weaver and Waco and other things that if people aren't familiar with, they should go back and read. And then it really occurred to me, a lot of them are saying, well, now it's different because we have these illegal aliens we have to deport. But it's always different. Authoritarians always find some pretext. In the wake of 9-11, it was terrorism. Prior to that, it was communism. So you have generations of Americans now trained with this authoritarian formula that unless you empower the federal government with these authoritarian powers that used to be unimaginable, at least as we were taught to understand the United States, You're going to be endangered by a whole, an endless carousel of dangers that have really frightened the American people into accepting this kind of unconstitutional, constant erosion of civil liberties.

1:11:44Yeah, I mean, Glenn, you're making such an important point here. But the evolution of domestic terrorists seems to be probably the single biggest new invention of this second Trump administration. Let's put C2 of Kirstie Noem, the DHS secretary, immediately talking about domestic terrorism in the context here of just bringing a gun to a protest, which, again, is completely legal. Let's take a listen. The White House has labeled the man who was killed in Minnesota as a domestic terrorist. Is that something you agree with? And have you seen any evidence to perpetuate violence against a government because of ideological reasons and for reasons to resist and perpetuate violence?

1:12:24That is the definition of domestic terrorism. This individual who came with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement officers committed an act of domestic terrorism. That's the facts. I mean, Glenn, you just mentioned Waco. This is a Waco event for me. This is a Waco event like to go in and to murder somebody, to disarm him and then immediately to come out just as the Clinton administration did after they murdered those people at Waco and murdered Randy Weaver's wife is they immediately came out afterwards and said, actually, the real problem is we have right wing domestic extremism.

1:12:57This seems to be the exact same playbook. But this time around, you're talking about Palantir, you're talking about databases. And perhaps most importantly, you know, apparently you don't have any sort of pushback even within the so-called coalition, you know, that rose up in many ways against allegedly against some of these same practices by the Biden administration. Yeah, exactly. I was going to say, you know, this isn't unfortunately new. It's not new to the Trump second term. second term. I mean, one of the largest critiques I had in the wake of January 6th was that a lot of Democrats and sort of the authoritarian Liz Cheney types began talking about the January 6th event as this insurrectionary movement that required labeling the Trump movement a domestic terrorist organization.

1:13:41There were attempts by people like Benny Thompson, the chairman of the committee, to say that everyone at January 6th at the Capitol should be put on no-fly lists, kind of this old school post 9-11 war on terror mentality, but brought to our shores, as well as Adam Schiff, who wanted to just amend the war on terror laws about international domestic, international terrorist organization to just amend it and say international or domestic terrorist organization. So in one fell swoop, kind of apply the entire war on terror standard to our soil. And this is why I'm so amazed, Sagar, to watch the American right that has never thrived well when this sort of mentality emerges, because under the Biden administration, the view of Homeland Security was the single largest threat to the United States is not al-Qaeda or ISIS or Russia, China or Iran.

1:14:29It's domestic white supremacy or domestic far right extremism. And this was the template for dealing with it, you know, a centralized surveillance database importing war and terror mentality and legislative powers to to our soil. And now you're seeing people like christy noem and cash patel and you know stephen miller and jd vance basically saying the same thing and i just i just unfortunately we're probably never going to get to the end of this cycle where people don't have the capacity to critique things as long as they perceive it's their side doing it i think that's really what we're seeing yeah right i i think the only way we're going to get back to it and i think later in the program we'll talk um about marjorie taylor Green's response where she tried to get people to imagine, OK, imagine that these are this is Biden's FBI and they're going to execute an arrest warrant against a J6 protester.

1:15:24And there's somebody filming outside of that person's house and they throw the person down to the ground and execute them. I think she's kind of screaming into a void. And one of the the starkest examples of inconsistency and hypocrisy on this question came from our friend of the show, Matt Walsh. And he wrote on, I guess, X yesterday, quote, an armed leftist went out with a gun to deliberately interfere with legitimate law enforcement operations. And I'm seeing some, quote, conservatives on this site claim that it might be ICE's fault that the guy is now dead. Insane. Some of you people will never effing learn.

1:16:02I responded to him saying that Walsh apparently is, cannot conceive of the idea of a principle that would apply ethically both to people he agrees with and also to people he disagrees with. You kind of had some thoughts on that, too. Wanted to see if you wanted to elaborate there. Well, it's funny with Marjorie Taylor Greene, even your point, you know, back in my like rosy eyed, naive younger days as a journalist, I remember in the Bush years trying to tell conservatives, imagine what's going to happen if someone like Hillary Clinton or John Kerry has the power to order American citizens to be arrested with no charges and put on an island or to be tortured or just ignore laws based on their say so that it's necessary for national security.

1:16:48And nobody was interested in that hypothetical. They were like, no, we're fine. We don't think that's going to happen. And then when it does happen, they start screaming bloody murder, murder, and Democrats turn around and endorse it. You go through the same exercise. And I think that it's just an inability to not even just an inability, but like an unwillingness to look at things in a principled way, only looking at things through acquiring power. And I think, you know, going to the Matt Wall's point, it's just been so ironic to watch the American right that has been have been champions of the Second Amendment for so long, not just in terms of your right to have a gun in order to ward off criminals, but also more so.

1:17:26And there's a Charlie Kirk tweet from last year saying this. The real reason to have a gun, to have a Second Amendment is to be able to guard against tyrannical excesses by a police state to guarded the citizenry against that. And now they're all talking about having a gun legally as some sort of indicia that you're probably a bad person who has some sort of ill intent. And that's something Kash Patel said. And Kristi Noem said, basically, you shouldn't be going to a protest armed. And it's like, what? All those right wing protests during COVID and Black Lives Matter all were ostentatiously armed to make the point that we are allowed to have guns in the United States, including when we go to political protests.

1:18:05And, you know, a lot of this, I do think, Ryan, is this kind of, you know, need to show everybody how tough and strong they are by saying, yeah, we're going to go in and we're going to shoot you down. We're going to murder you without any kind of Christian compassion or empathy or concern because we're in the middle of a war. And these are all people who never go to war, who never sacrifice, never take any risk. People like Matt Walsh. And, you know, I was writing about this 20 years ago. These were like the neocon chicken hawks, like Jonah Goldberg was writing in 2005. Every 10 years, we need to pick up some crappy country and throw it against the wall just to show that we mean business.

1:18:39It's like what crappy country or crappy anything are you, Jonah Goldberg, ever going to pick up? And because he knew he was such a weak and secure loser, he had to use this like tough guy rhetoric and endorse these authoritarian policies. And I think Matt Walsh is just the kind of updated modern version of trying to show that you're a man by indicating how little regard you have for human life. Yeah, I mean, it's beyond that also, Glenn. And even with Jonah, unfortunately, his parents seems to have learned nothing. What's also galling, like you just said, are the hypocritical statements that these people are making who not even a couple of years ago, who in Marjorie Taylor Greene's hypothetical scenario would have been screaming, would have encouraged people to take armed and to take to the streets to stand up.

1:19:24Which, by the way, I think, you know, Charlie's tweet is empirically correct. It's not just about self-defense. That was the general intention of the Second Amendment, which I have always been strong support. That's why when I watch a guy like Alex Preddy get gunned down in the street who did absolutely nothing wrong and then the government labels him a domestic terrorist. This is Waco like this is Randy Weaver. This is literally the exact same thing. You've talked also, Glenn, about masks on federal agents. I do want to give you the opportunity to talk about that as well. That's something that I had been feeling uncomfortable with.

1:19:57I heard their response is like, oh, well, we're worried about being docs. And I was like, well, you know, you are in a public position of power and ultimately accountability of the state is like the bedrock of our system. So I do want to give you the opportunity to speak about that, too. Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting. In the 90s, there was some convergence of left and right around these concerns for the excesses of federal police power, both in Randy Weaver and Waco. The idea that if the state considers you a little weird or has an ideology that they consider threatening, even though you haven't done anything, you're liable to just like be incinerated in your house or have FBI come and shoot your wife and your kid and your dog.

1:20:36and there was a very famous Gore Vidal essay who was always on the left, Gore Vidal was, where he got to know Timothy McVeigh and kind of wrote an essay, not sympathetic to McVeigh personally, but to the idea that, yeah, we really, this is a kind of tyranny is having the federal government be able to come and do whatever it wants. And I think the idea that, you know, there's always this kind of contradiction in right-wing discourse, like either left-wing men are, you know, little soy boy weaklings who are more like girls who don't really understand the virtues of masculine courage the way Matt Walsh does because of how he dresses in the studio.

1:21:14Or there are, you know, people like Alex Preddy who actually do courageously go into the street knowing that there's risk watching two weeks after ICE just murdered a woman in his city in Minneapolis. And these people are confronting ICE because they believe that they're engaging in abuse of power. These are the kind of citizens we want. He's legally armed. He's going to a protest. to defend and believe in his cause. And I do think he shames a lot of the people who want to believe that they represent those values, but really are too cowardly to do so. And as for masks, I mean, this is the kind of thing that is the stuff of dystopian terror.

1:21:50Like one of the ways that we keep armed agents of the state accountable is that they're subject to certain rules and constraints. And if they transgress those rules and constraints, they're liable to be prosecuted or to have other discipline. But when they're masked, it takes away a major part of that accountability, especially when the federal government is refusing to allow states and cities to investigate crimes by them in their jurisdictions. That is something we should not want in the United States. It doesn't matter what your ideology is, your views on deportation or anything else. We should not want masked agents of the state roaming our street, snatching people off the street in plain-marked vehicles or plain-marked clothes or using force without being able to identify them.

1:22:30yeah and the uh weapons came into the randy weaver uh situation too people should go back and kind of read that because it's such a kind of seminal moment in the 90s the the federal warrant that the fbi or actually i guess it was the marshals um were trying to enforce on his you know little compound out of ruby ridge was for he apparently he's like sawed off a shotgun for somebody Which they asked him to. It was a total entrapment. A total 100 % entrapment. So even like the basis for which they were coming on to his property was related to entrapment and a Second Amendment issue as well. And then they shoot and kill his dog.

1:23:13And then the 14 year old kid gets upset about that and they shoot and kill him. Then you get the standoff that leads to his wife being killed as well. And to have that as the legacy of the of the 90s lead into this. Well, you know, maybe you shouldn't have sold a shot, sawed off shotgun to a federal agent. Right. Then this wouldn't have. That was the defense, by the way, of the time. That was literally the defense for exactly. Exactly. And not only that, but like that also then is what led to the first war over privacy on the Internet. The Internet was only emerging in its incipient stages then.

1:23:44And that was when Bill Clinton and the Clinton administration were demanding backdoor to Internet encryption on the grounds that they have to surveil domestically, like the anti-government militias that arose in the wake of things like Waco and Randy Ridge, Ruby Ridge to protest against government excesses. And you had these authoritarians like Bill Clinton and the Clinton administration saying, now we need backdoors into the Internet to monitor everybody. And the view of the American right was we're not giving up privacy and allowing the federal government to become these sprawling police standing armies because they're going to crush our liberties.

1:24:16And now 20 years later, it's the American right not only cheering it, but demanding it based on exactly the same mentality. They just don't realize it. Alex Jones, for some reason, is the most disappointing to me. I agree. To see him out there. Everything he warned about is now like coming to fruition. And he's out there alongside it, cheering it on. Cheering it, demanding it. I know. It's amazing. Disgusting. So disgusting. Glenn, as always, thank you so much for joining us, for breaking it down. Good to be with you guys. Value now more than ever.

1:25:15Milan Cortina Olympic Winter Games. I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. And we'll join athletes from 93 countries as Two Guys Five Rings hits the Italian Alps for the 2026 Milan Cortina Olympic Winter Games. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Did we mention it's free? Search Two Guys Five Rings and listen now. Black history lives in our stories, our culture, and the conversations we still have in today. I didn't know. This Black History Month, the podcast I didn't know, maybe you didn't either, digs into the moments, perspectives, and experiences that don't always make the textbook. Let me tell you about Garrett Morgan.

1:25:55Bruh had to pretend he didn't even exist just to sell his own invention. Listen to I Didn't Know, Maybe You Didn't Either from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or simply wherever you get your podcasts. I didn't know. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

1:26:32Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, a.k.a. neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.