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Breaking Points Podcast Summary: Episode on White House Corruption Allegations, TikTok, and Pro-Israel Crackdown
Episode Details
- Title: 10/2/25: WH Short Circuits On Corruption Allegations, Larry Ellison TikTok Takeover, Pro Israel Crackdown
- Hosts: Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti
- Description: The episode discusses recent allegations of corruption related to Jared Kushner, Larry Ellison's involvement with TikTok, and social media's pro-Israel crackdown.
Key Discussions
White House's Response to Corruption Allegations
- Corruption Allegations:
- Jared Kushner, former White House advisor, has business ties with Gulf countries, raising concerns about conflict of interest.
- White House spokesperson Carolyn Levitt defends Kushner's role in developing a peace plan as "noble," despite allegations against him.
- Criticism:
- Discussion around the implications of Kushner's financial ties with Gulf nations, including a $2.5 billion investment from these countries, which could influence his objectivity.
- Historical context of Kushner's failed attempts to secure funding for his real estate ventures from Qatar, leading to geopolitical tensions.
Larry Ellison's TikTok Takeover
- Ellison's Influence:
- As the founder of Oracle, Ellison's acquisition of TikTok is discussed, emphasizing his role in shaping content moderation and narrative control.
- Allegations surface regarding Ellison's connections to pro-Israel initiatives and political figures, including Marco Rubio and Tony Blair.
- Changes in TikTok's Guidelines:
- Allegations that recent changes in TikTok's content guidelines inhibit discussions around Palestine and Israel.
- New policies require users to condemn organizations like Hamas when discussing them, severely limiting free speech.
Pro-Israel Crackdown on Social Media
- Censorship Issues:
- A TikTok content creator discusses the challenges faced under new speech guidelines which make it difficult to report or criticize Israel without invoking condemnation.
- The implication is that the suppression of pro-Palestinian content is a method of controlling the narrative surrounding the ongoing conflict.
- Impact on Creators:
- The new guidelines are affecting the ecosystem of political creators on TikTok, with potential ramifications for monetization and visibility of content.
Key Takeaways
- Corruption Allegations: The episode highlights the intertwining of business interests and political influence, particularly focusing on Jared Kushner's connections and their implications for U.S. foreign policy.
- Ellison and TikTok: Larry Ellison's ownership of TikTok raises questions about the platform's governance and its susceptibility to external political influences. The episode suggests a shift in content moderation towards pro-Israel narratives.
- Social Media Censorship: The episode underscores significant concerns regarding censorship on platforms like TikTok, especially in relation to discussions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which affects how creators can share information and advocate for causes.
Conclusion This episode of Breaking Points provides a critical examination of current political events, specifically focusing on corruption allegations in the White House, the implications of Larry Ellison's business maneuvers with TikTok, and the ongoing crackdown on pro-Israel content across social media platforms. The discussions reflect broader themes of political influence, media control, and the importance of free speech in the digital age.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Saagar Enjeti:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast, when peanut butter disappears from school, Ella, Scout, and Layla launch a full detective mission. Their search leads them back in time to meet a brilliant inventor whose curiosity changed the world. And this Black History Month adventure, asking questions, thinking creatively, can lead to amazing discoveries. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is...
0:37Saagar Enjeti:You can decide who takes home the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the Year by voting at iHeartPodcastAwards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at iHeartPodcastAwards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Hey everyone, it's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the Legally Brunette podcast. Each week we're bringing you true crime through a legal lens.
1:14Saagar Enjeti:Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, or you still need to wrap your head around the ditty verdict, we're breaking it all down step by step. And we're not just lawyers, we're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes. Listen to Legally Brunette on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.
1:50Ryan Grim:So if that is something that's important to you,
1:52Saagar Enjeti:Please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com.
2:09Krystal Ball:Yesterday at the White House, spokesperson Carolyn Levitt was pressed on the question of how is it appropriate that son-in-law Jared Kushner, who no longer has an official role in the White House, but does have business entangments all throughout the Gulf, is allowed to be involved with those countries. Let's roll this. How did the White House decide that it is appropriate for Jared Kushner to be working on matters that involve Qatar, the UAE, Saudi Arabia? Three countries that combined have given him more than$2.5 billion for his investment firm.
2:42Saagar Enjeti:I think it's frankly despicable that you're trying to suggest that it's inappropriate for Jared Kushner, who is widely respected around the world and has great trust in relationships with these critical partners in these countries, to strike a 20 point comprehensive detailed peace plan that no other administration would ever be able to achieve. And so Jared is donating his energy and his time to our government, to the president of the United States, to secure world peace. And that is a very noble thing.
3:14Krystal Ball:20 point plan has not actually been accepted yet by Palestinian factions. We're waiting on word on that. Jeremy Scale at Dropside has a good story interviewing some top PHA official and others on, or top Hamas official, on where they stand on that. But setting that aside, there's something so deeply instructive about the – Carolyn Levitt finding it offensive to even suggest that$2.5 billion might influence Jared Kushner's objectivity.
3:47Saagar Enjeti:Well, he's widely respected around the world, right?
3:49Krystal Ball:He's very widely respected around the world. the elephant in the Middle East has been Steve Whitcoff who is friends with probably frenemies because they're both in real estate and development and they're both raising money from the Gulf so that puts them in both in competition and in some harmony here and there Whitcoff himself has been working on issues all over the world but in particularly the Gulf while his two sons, Zach and Alex Witkoff, have been going around the globe with their tin cup out, filling it with either Bitcoin or dollars. We can put up this next element up on the screen. It's New York Times investigation into Alex Witkoff, where Mitty's envoy pitched peace.
4:41Krystal Ball:His son pitched investors. And they have them dead to rights here. So basically, as Whitcoff is working on the ceasefire framework and with Qatar as the mediator with the most amount of influence over Hamas, Alex Whitcoff of the Whitcoff Group, which also has Steve Whitcoff as a member. Like Steve Whitcoff sold some of his shares, but is still an owner of the Whitcoff Group. Even if he wasn't, it's his sons. So you're not delinking that. But he still is literally an owner of the Whitcoff Group. So his son Alex goes to the Gulf and hits up the Qataris and says, we want money for the Whitcoff Group.
5:28Krystal Ball:Like, give us money for these investments. And the Qataris confirmed it. The history here is very instructive. um in 2017 um jaren when jared kushner was actually in the white house his company um went to cutter um to try to get a bailout for their 666 uh fifth avenue property so in 2007 kushner at the time bought i think it was for 1.8 billion dollars the biggest manhattan real estate purchase in history um and then like the next week the bottom fell out of the real estate market and the Kushner family, because of this Jared Kushner folly, was looking at destitution. The loans were coming due, 10-year loans.
6:14Krystal Ball:Loans are coming due 2017. He goes to the Gulf as he's a White House official, hits up the Qataris for money. They look at it, and they're like, this is a terrible investment, and they turn him down. They thought they were getting an investment offer. This was not an up and up commercial transaction. This was a shakedown. Within weeks of them saying no to this, the UAE and Saudi Arabia nearly invade with their actual militaries. Instead, they launch a blockade on the economy of Qatar, which had a base with 10 ,000 thousand service members. Rex Tillerson immediately comes in and slams Saudi Arabia and the Emiratis saying, what are you doing?
7:04Krystal Ball:These are our allies. We have a base here. You cannot blockade this country. Jared Kushner comes in. All of this has been since been reported and was reported at the time by us. He comes in and says, oh, no, no, it's fine. We're siding with Saudi Arabia and the Emiratis over the Qataris here. That blockade lasted all the way through the Trump administration, badly damaged the Qatari economy. Only when Biden came in did they finally lift it. And I talked to a very high level official from Qatar who said, if we had known what the cost was going to be of saying no to the Kushners, we would have paid it.
7:47Krystal Ball:We wish we had paid it. So that sets up Whitcoff. And so although Kushner, day two of like his post White House time, gets a$2 billion investment from Saudi Arabia into this quote unquote private equity fund, which is there's no evidence they've invested any of it.
8:06Saagar Enjeti:Well, Andy, remember, Ryan, that the internal documents released by the New York Times, they were like, this isn't a good investment, but we're going to do it. Kenny Clip's got some of those documents. Yeah, they were like, well, we're going to do it because of the state power involved. $2.5 billion is nothing paid for level of influence in the potential future next administration. And, of course, Jared Kushner was present at the press conference with Prime Minister Netanyahu and Trump talking about the Gazalago future development. which he, of course, has been pitching privately since before the November 2000 election.
8:39Krystal Ball:Right, exactly. And so when, and Kushner actually instructed the Tony Blair Institute back in the spring, Times of Israel just reported this, instructed Tony Blair Institute to come up with a post-war plan for redevelopment. And then Trump puts Tony Blair.
8:53Saagar Enjeti:I did not know that.
8:54Krystal Ball:That's crazy. And Larry Ellison has given or pledged$350 million to the Tony Blair Institute. Wow. So this is an Ellison project over here. And so that is the context for when Alex Whitcoff is going to Doha asking for investments. They understand that this is not a, here's a pitch deck, and we think that you're looking at a good 4.5 % to 5.5 % return on your investment. It's a nice little country you've got here. Real shame if something would happen to it. But – and so the Witkoffs are deeply in bed with the Qataris, which goes to the point that you were making at the top of the program. You get the Israelis complaining a lot about Witkoff's relationship with Qatar.
9:42And it's like, OK, you know what?
9:44Krystal Ball:Yeah, we're going to give it to them. As they say in Ireland, fair play.
9:47Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, we're giving it to them. To be fair, the Qataris say that they did not invest actually in the fund, at least this specific time. They do note, quote, as recently as May, the Wyckoff Group did receive some$100 million from a financial trust that is run by the private equity firm Apollo Global, which is partly owned by Qatar.
10:05Krystal Ball:They're going to find some way to not piss them off.
10:07Saagar Enjeti:The Wyckoff family's relationship with Qatar traces back to the first Trump administration, including Steve Wyckoff. By the time Trump was back in the White House, the relationship had evolved, and the Wyckoff Group saw Qatar as a, quote, go-to source of funding. Now, the current White House is defending it, saying this is a smear of Steve Wyckoff. They say Qatar has used its$557 billion sovereign wealth fund to amass global influence in the U.S. Focal point has been real estate investment and that they have pounded more than$4 billion into the Manhattan real estate market alone, including the Plaza, the St.
10:40Saagar Enjeti:Regis, and a stake in the Empire State Building. Now, this has basically been a gulf project now for some time, right? This is the Wyckhoffs, Jared Kushner. This gets to the original question. But what I have not stopped and able to think about is Jeremy Scahill in our reaction to the Trump deal. He was like, look, Trump has an enormous amount of dollar signs in his eyes. And that's part of the reason that this deal may get done. And I was like, oh, man, that is dark to think about in terms of why his own personal influence may want to see something like this happen. And Jared Kushner's presence there is not a surprise.
11:18Saagar Enjeti:By the way, all of this is a lead-in to an extraordinary diplomatic development that is honestly insane. Let's go and put this up here on the screen. Trump has now given Qatar a, quote, unprecedented security guarantee after the Israeli attack. He says, an executive order signed by President Trump Monday would provide Qatar a security guarantee with conditions similar to NATO's Article 5. Everybody keep in mind, NATO Article 5. By the way, I have a lot of issues with NATO, as anybody who watches this show knows. At the least, NATO is ratified by the U.S. Senate. There's a legal process through which we all agree, I guess, that we're going to die for North Montenegro or Macedonia or whatever.
12:01Saagar Enjeti:Stupid, in my opinion, but whatever. It's still ratified by our democratic process. Well, this is just by executive fiat that the United States will have similar Article V protection. They say the unprecedented security agreement says it will treat any armed attack on the country as a threat to the peace and security of the United States. I do not think people understand how insane it is to have an executive fiat order security guarantee. Not only is that not how it's supposed to work, it's wild. And it's one of those where, look, to the original premise of the question, does Qatari influence on the Trump people's orbit have anything to do with this?
12:43Saagar Enjeti:I cannot rule that out. I cannot rule that out at this time.
12:47Krystal Ball:I mean, can you imagine how pure a soul you would have to be for billions of dollars not to have any influence on you? Right, of course.
12:56Saagar Enjeti:It's just nonsensical.
12:57Krystal Ball:People are swayed by like a free app. Mm-hmm. You're exactly right. I mean, appetizer, not a free app on your phone. Yeah, free app.
13:04Saagar Enjeti:Well, probably a free app.
13:05Krystal Ball:Probably a free app on your phone, too. Yeah, you're exactly right.
13:07Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, it's like getting a$2.50 discount at Starbucks is enough to cause a line for the drive-thru. It's what, billions of dollars? Not going to have any impact. I mean, I just think it's—I think it has not come under nearly enough scrutiny. Right now, it's mostly the pro-Israel side, which is furious with Trump for giving this security guarantee for Qatar. But this is the issue with the entire U.S.-Israel relationship. Trump brings Bibi here. He's like, you need to call and apologize. And Bibi's like, okay, whatever. He calls and he apologizes. He released the photo of him apologizing. Releasing the photo of Trump holding the phone.
13:47Saagar Enjeti:And it's great. Good optics. But then instead of telling Israel, hey, don't ever do that again. We just invent some NATO Article 5 thing for Qatar to get them to serve as the mediators. Isn't there a much easier way to achieve what we're trying to do here to try and make sure that there is no attacks on Qatar? Which is what? Who's causing them? Israel, right? Israel bombs Iran, which bombs – or whatever, fires missiles at Qatar. Face saving. We all move on. Great. All right? How do you stop that? Don't let Israel bomb Iran. Simple. Don't let Israel bomb Qatar. Simple. Why do we allow this to happen?
14:25Saagar Enjeti:We have to invent all of these quasi-solutions. So it's a singular problem.
14:29Krystal Ball:Right. They don't trust Israel and they also don't trust us because there's this gaping open question that says, wait a minute. There's an American military base right outside of Doha. How did Israel pull off a bombing if you say you didn't know about it? What good is your American military base if planes can just fly in and drop bombs? Part of why I don't buy their exhibition at all. Of course. There had to be a stand-down order. Because you've got people on the radar being like, this plane is not on anybody's manifest. What's it doing? It's heading for downtown Doha. And they're like, just leave it alone.
15:13Krystal Ball:We're good. Otherwise, it's like, what are you doing in this country? And so as Jeremy Scahill also reported at DropSite, two Arab sources told him that Marco Rubio told the Qataris that he could not promise that Israel would not hit them again. Wow. Nobody in the U.S. has reported that because they don't have the Arab sources on that. And, of course, Rubio is not going to say it. But they didn't deny it when we went for comment. um and so if you're the Qataris how can you not guarantee that you've just been told yes Trump said they're not going to do it again yeah Rubio it's I don't know if they could do it they might yeah yeah so then they go back to Trump and they're like we need a security guarantee we need this in writing that you will go to war with whoever attacks us and Trump is like all right
16:02Saagar Enjeti:yeah I guess he just didn't really think about it what Qatar's got no one they have you know like you just said they're beeping with Saudi Arabia with the UAE what are we doing here you You know, this is supposed to come.
16:11Krystal Ball:The Emiratis go after them. Right, exactly. It's conceivable.
Read the full transcript
16:14Saagar Enjeti:It's definitely conceivable.
16:16Krystal Ball:I'm sure we have kill switches in all of their weapons. So that presumably would be a pretty quick war.
16:20Saagar Enjeti:It's such a, you know, you really do have to marvel at the wisdom of the Gulf. Because for years they were like, look, all we have to do is bribe these people. You know, we'll pay them$100 billion, you know, Saudi Arabia, all this money, EA Sports. Eventually we need to do a segment about that. The whole EA Sports thing. Yeah, buying Madden. It's kind of crazy.
16:39Krystal Ball:Saudi Arabia is buying Matt.
16:40Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, they're taking it private with who? Jared Kushner. Oh, right. That's right. It's like, okay. But you put all this together, and just the way that this is all working, this is nuts. Like in terms of personal relationship, the White House being like he's a world respected. No, he's not. Okay, he's a joke. Everybody who's ever dealt with him knows he is a complete joke. The only reason that he has any money right now is because of his previous influence with the Trump family. Prior to that, him, his father and all that, not a great reputation. Everybody knew it. And it's only because of his access to power and potential influence here on Trump that we are where we are.
17:18Saagar Enjeti:And they're denigrating that. They're signing security guarantees with Qatar. And then this Wyckoff thing, as I said, the Zionists have attacked him for a while as a Qatari asset, which they also ignore that Bibi's inner circle is also potentially a Qatari asset. Whatever. They're not consistent on the point.
17:34Krystal Ball:They took money from Qatar.
17:35Saagar Enjeti:As honest people here, Ryan, we have to admit it's not looking good here for the Wyckoff Group and their own potential influence.
17:43Krystal Ball:And this was the most likely way it was going to unfold once the U.S. after World War II was like, we're going to do this in dollars and we're going to just absolutely flood these families, not even countries, basically. Right. We're just going to flood these families, the Saud family, et cetera, with ungodly amounts of wealth. they're going to then have to have these giant pools of capital that they're going to figure out what to do with and our political system is going to figure out a way to make sure that they're basically forced to reinvest it all back here in bribes here in the United States
18:17Saagar Enjeti:and the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is you can decide who takes home the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards podcast of the year by voting at iHeartPodcastAwards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at iHeartPodcastAwards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at Audible.com. Hey everyone, it's Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson from the Legally Brunette podcast.
18:54Krystal Ball:Each week we're bringing you true crime through a legal lens.
18:57Saagar Enjeti:Whether you want all the facts on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, or you still need to wrap your head around the ditty verdict, we're breaking it all down step by step. And we're not just lawyers, we're also husband and wife. It makes for some pretty entertaining episodes. Listen to Legally Brunette on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea. In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Trainor, disappeared from a commune.
19:32Krystal Ball:It was hard to wrap your head around. It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.
19:36Saagar Enjeti:No, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied to my parents. I lied to police. I lied to everybody. There were years right where I could not say your name. I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California, to interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find out what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of to come around here and my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
20:19Krystal Ball:In a moment, we're going to be joined by our favorite guy. That's the TikTok handle for a TikTok content creator who is going to walk us boomers and Gen Xers over here through the new censorship regime that's underway over at TikTok. Related to that, we're going to discuss first the politics of not just the TikTok takeover, but the man who's at the center of it. And that's Oracle founder Larry Ellison, who is the on again, off again, richest man in the world. He was briefly the richest man in the world when his Oracle stock blew up, went back down. And now he's like, you know, neck and neck with Musk and these other oligarchs.
21:02Krystal Ball:But we can put up this new article that I have with Murtazi Hussain over at DropSite. And the whole story is worth the read because we're getting access to a bunch of email correspondence from the 2010s and the late 2010s that is really opening up a window into worlds that have been occluded for a long time. And there's some really fascinating stuff that we're putting up. So this was to start with. Ron Prozer was the at the time of this these email exchanges that we're reviewing here, the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, Marco Rubio, who in the email exchange they call Mario Rubio, was a senator from Florida.
21:50Krystal Ball:He'd been elected in 2010 as a kind of pretty arch conservative. Like he came up with a Tea Party movement and he's launching a presidential campaign. So Prozer and Larry Ellison, according to these emails that we've obtained and that have not been previously reported, are emailing back and forth about a variety of different things. They talk about having dinner and then they start talking about Mario Rubio, Marco Rubio. and a proser says and we can put up this um first email exchange here um between them um i had a great time to run at dinner i'm looking forward to the next time um larry says p.s i'll tell you how dinner goes uh with senator rubio and then we put up the put up the response there larry hi how was the conversation with mario rubio did he pass your scrutiny uh did you have a chance to talk about Israel.
22:44Krystal Ball:Would love to chat. My cell is. Big hug. And again, thank you for a wonderful evening with you, Ron. A few hours later, Ellison responds in the affirmative. He says, quote, Hi, Ron. Great meeting with Marco Rubio. I set him up to meet with Tony Blair. Marco will be a great friend for Israel. So this is 2015. Ellison then goes on to put $5 million into Marco Rubio's super PAC for the presidential campaign. Doesn't work out for him. As we know, Donald Trump gets into the race. Donald Trump wins. Marco Rubio, though, has now since become Secretary of State. Now, so backing up, Larry Ellison, he is an oligarch who has really kind of snuck into our politics.
23:35Krystal Ball:He's played a very effective, long and quiet game, although it's getting difficult for him to kind of escape as much public scrutiny as he has been able to in the past, just because of the sheer dominance that he's been able to display. Oracle is a database software technology that, because it sells also to businesses, has put itself kind of everywhere in the world very quietly. Even though, you know, Oracle's just, it's not one of the top companies that you think of, but when it comes to its kind of persistence and its prevalence in your life, it's absolutely everywhere. Now, Ellison himself, I believe it was 2017, he made the largest ever donation to Friends of the IDF, which is an American nonprofit that supports the Israeli military.
24:31Krystal Ball:And this line here, which says, I set him up to meet with Tony Blair. That's key. So why on earth is Larry Ellison setting anybody up to meet with the former UK prime minister who's most known for going along with George Bush with the invasion of the Iraq war? So after he becomes prime minister, Tony Blair sets up the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. Larry Ellison has given or pledged more than three hundred and fifty million dollars. I think we have an element on that one to the Tony Blair Institute. Uh, recent reporting, um, by the new Statesman, uh, and, and Lighthouse reports, uh, reveals what everybody had kind of already known about TBI, Tony Blair Institute, that it, it effectively has merged with Oracle in significant ways.
25:22Krystal Ball:Like do you have board members who are both on TBI and also on, uh, Oracle, uh, you would have Oracle, uh, employees able to basically just jump into the TBI calendars and schedule meetings with executives. So this new station published this report that interviewed tons of Oracle and Blair Institute employees and said, yeah, basically, we're one in the same here, that the Blair Institute is acting as kind of a sales arm for Oracle. This is important because in the spring, this past spring, as Times of Israel just recently reported, Jared Kushner asked the Tony Blair Institute to come up with a post-Gaza, post-war, post-genocide reconstruction and redevelopment plan.
26:10Krystal Ball:Some of those details leaked. So the Tony Blair Institute did put together this project. If you're following along, you saw that when Donald Trump announced that he was creating this board of peace that was going to be chaired by himself, he said the key figure on it was going to be none other than Tony Blair, which brings everything full circle. Obviously, at the center of all of this is Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who helped set up the TikTok deal. As a senator, Rubio, by the way, was one of the most outspoken against TikTok the whole time. And obviously, Rubio plays a role as well in the diplomatic lead up in the rollout of this Gaza plan, which, you know, if the reporting is accurate that the Blair Institute is an arm, effectively, of Oracle.
27:08Saagar Enjeti:Or is influenced by them.
27:10Krystal Ball:Influenced by Oracle.
27:11Saagar Enjeti:At the very least.
27:12Krystal Ball:$350 million is going to buy you some influence in a nonprofit. I think we can honestly all say that. Yes. And being in regular meetings and as this new statement reported like effectively like yeah
27:23Saagar Enjeti:it is interesting to me ryan i know there was a lot of liberal freak out about elon and twitter i think the ellison family is way more effective right now i mean let's think about this like we have the tiktok connection now in terms of the back like the data which will be processed put
27:41Krystal Ball:E5. Yeah, E5. We can put that up there about, quote, I mean, you can't even make this stuff up.
27:47Saagar Enjeti:Like after buying Paramount, like Larry Ellison's son now wants to buy Warner Brothers Discovery. This is David Ellison. This is the guy who loves Barry Weiss. Well, this is one of the richest families in the world who is now controlling CBS News, Paramount Skydance, which is one of the biggest movie studios. Paramount +, which means a ton of like the red meat content, which is creating, you know, the whole Taylor Sheridan universe, et cetera. Now they want to buy WBD, so they would own CNN. They would own HBO Max. Now they're going to own TikTok, not to mention Oracle, which is the backbone of like computer data centers of the entire world.
28:26Krystal Ball:Which already does the data work for TikTok.
28:29Saagar Enjeti:Yeah. Like what? Which was the original thing. Right, it was the original thing. So put that all together and you're like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa.
28:35Krystal Ball:We've been chasing the wrong shiny objects. That's what I'm saying.
28:38Saagar Enjeti:So, you know, leftists, wake up. Elon, yes, he's the villain of old. It's the Ellison family now. It's wild. It's wild. But, you know, he's also, he's weird. You know, Larry Ellison owns an entire private island in Hawaii. He owns a Ritz-Carlton Hotel and basically runs his own little kingdom. You can go read about it. It's wild. He has somehow, you know, been under the radar. Obviously, he's been very influential on Republican politics. But the level of control now that this family has over American political discourse and particularly has like an unending, you know, basically desire to shape American public opinion to be pro-Israel, we should all be very, very skeptical.
29:17Krystal Ball:And so we also have a quote in this story from Oracle CEO Safra Katz saying – this is from one of the emails. We believe that we have to embed the love and respect for Israel in the American culture. Okay. Like they're very explicit about this.
29:31Saagar Enjeti:And that was from 2015, right? This is before this isn't even a thing. This is 10 years ago.
29:36Krystal Ball:And to your point about Ellison and his interestingness, let's roll E6. If you think you're not bothered enough, let's roll E6. Your body cams will be transmitting that.
29:52Saagar Enjeti:The police will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording, watching and recording everything that's going on. Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on.
30:07Krystal Ball:When you come to government and what government's doing, there are artificial intelligence tools. And some of them, I know the Oracle have developed around financial management for government. But also tell us a bit about what, because you're right at the forefront of this revolution,
30:23Saagar Enjeti:what it means for what government should do in terms of its digital infrastructure, digital ID, data centers, and so on. How do you take advantage of these incredible AI models? And the first thing a country needs to do is to unify all of their data so it can be consumed and used by the AI model. You have to take all of your health care data, your diagnostic data, your electronic health records, your genomic data.
30:57Krystal Ball:And, you know, in the Middle East, in the UAE, for example, they're incredibly rich in data. Yeah, I'm out. I'm out on that. I regret to inform you it is too late. He is now basically the most powerful man in the world. Just want to underline what he just said. Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on.
31:17Saagar Enjeti:See, this is where I'm just like, you know, might as well be China because at least there is the government. All right. And not Larry Ellison. I would at least take the government. I'm being – I would take the authoritarian Chinese government over that.
31:27Krystal Ball:Right. Because there's at least some participatory democratic ways to pressure that government. Right. They don't have elections. Kind of. Not really. Yeah, yeah. But here we're going to have the worst of all worlds because we'll have the outlet of fake elections where people's anger at the system can be channeled into these days where you go and check a box when it goes into a void. It's just poof, gone.
31:53Saagar Enjeti:You got to be careful with where you go down that road, Ryan. It might lead you to some interesting theories of governance. All right. OK. Let's go.
32:01Krystal Ball:Look, we tried this one. And this is what we're getting. That's true.
32:06Saagar Enjeti:All right, let's get to TikTok.
32:32Saagar Enjeti:Listen to Legally Brunette on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... You can decide who takes home the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the Year by voting at iHeartPodcastAwards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at iHeartPodcastAwards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com.
33:10Saagar Enjeti:This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea. In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Trainor, disappeared from a commune. It was hard to wrap your head around. It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. So no, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied to my parents, I lied to police, I lied to everybody. There were years right where I could not say your name. I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California, interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can, to try to find out what actually happened.
33:48Saagar Enjeti:Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of bitches. Come around here with my wife. Boom. Boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
34:11Krystal Ball:Okay, now moving to TikTok, which Larry Ellison is in the process of taking over. We're going to be joined by Guy Christensen, who is the creator behind the account Your Favorite Guy. Guy, welcome to Breaking Points. Thanks for joining us.
34:28Saagar Enjeti:Good to see you, Guy. Thank you, Ryan.
34:30Krystal Ball:So you're going to walk a couple boomers through what is going on over at TikTok. And so we've been talking offline. You've been trying to educate me with some success, but you've got a lot of – it's a difficult task, so it's not on you. So tell me when I'm going to – was September – what is it, 13th or 23rd?
34:53Ryan Grim:September 13th.
34:54Krystal Ball:Okay, so what happened on September 13th?
34:57Ryan Grim:TikTok changed their free speech guidelines. And it has to do with their new hate speech czar who was hired through ADL lobbying. Her name's Erica Mendel. She's an ex-IDF instructor. She's a former State Department contractor. And she says that Zionism is an identity that goes hand in hand with Judaism for her. And so TikTok hired Erica Mendel under pressure by ADL lobbying, which the national policy director takes credit for. And about two or three days after they hired Mendel, everyone who uses TikTok actually saw this. They pushed out a post notification when you open the app, says they're changing the guidelines.
35:38Ryan Grim:And in these guidelines, they changed a whole bunch of things around that makes it so much harder to talk about Palestine. You can't talk about graphic incidents or violence in the context of a public interest. And they explicitly list war as something you can't talk about. They make it much harder to criticize the state of Israel as an illegal apartheid state or characterize the IDF as terrorist forces in the way they lay out criticisms of national origin.
36:09Krystal Ball:i also i also noticed that it said that if if you mention and i do reporting on tiktok now and so i will say like i'll do this like one or two minute videos where i'm saying like okay this is hamas is responding to and i i don't even do the like i know that some people will say like h because they're worried about the algorithm um not spreading their stuff i don't care um if it spreads stuff because we end up then posting the video on twitter and right instagram whatever so So I just use all the words. But I will say, OK, Hamas has received the take-or-leave-it-cease-fire offer from Trump and Israel.
36:44Krystal Ball:Here is what Hamas is saying. Here's what Palestinian Islam is saying. Because I'm a news reporter. And those are the organizations that are involved in the news. And I saw, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought I saw in the guidelines that every time I mention them, I have to then follow that up by condemning their existence. Is that like, how does this work?
37:05Ryan Grim:That's exactly right. They require anyone who makes videos on TikTok now to explicitly denounce all designated terrorist organizations by the State Department when mentioned in a neutral context.
37:17Krystal Ball:So you can't just say— Instead of praise be upon him, it would have to be Hamas, condemnation be upon them. Yeah, you have to. Has said that within 72 hours they will respond to the—
37:28Saagar Enjeti:That is so crazy. All right, so Guy, I know you have compiled some—can we have some examples? Can we put these on the screen so you can just explain it again to a boomer like me? Some of these things about why videos are getting taken down. Just walk us through these.
37:45Ryan Grim:So just to put it into context, prior to the September 13 changes, prior to Erica Mindell entering the company, I looked at before I came on the past six months what happened. And I only had two videos taken down. And since September 13th, it's been 11. Wow. And it's not been that long since, you know, they switched over. So what you're looking at here are notifications, screens that TikTok sends creators when they remove their videos. And so you'll see on the left, I'm trying to submit an appeal. That was a video where I talked about Max's reporting and the Grey's known about Charlie Kirk and his supposed to turn on Israel leading up to his death.
38:28Ryan Grim:And, you know, the guidelines make a cutout for public interest. And so I thought I could appeal, but of course not. They took it off the For You page and all feeds, which you can see here on the right, where it says visibility restricted. It's not eligible for the For You feed. That means nobody can see it unless they explicitly open up my profile and go to my page and find the specific video or else they're not going to see it at all.
38:51Saagar Enjeti:Huh. That is crazy. Do we have any more guys that we can show here? Yeah, let's put up this next one. Yeah. So, yeah, we have a few more here. there's one here on the right where, what is this one about exactly? This is again, the gray zone report where - I think it was.
39:05Ryan Grim:I think there were multiple videos about gray zone reporting that were removed talking about Israel or Charlie Kirk. And then on the left is actually a screenshot trying to show that there's no option to appeal. So there's no recourse for that. And what about these two? What do we see here? So the one on the left is you'll see your video is under review and can't be shared right now. TikTok does this thing. It's essentially a shadow banning where they don't actually tell you it's taken down, but nobody can see it. So it's like in this limbo stage. That was a video I published last night that thankfully went through the review system, but it can get stuck in this limbo for up to 24 hours or longer, which is what happened with this interview on the video to the right, which is now able to be viewed in my profile, but it's not able to be pushed in feeds.
39:55Ryan Grim:So it's stuck at like a few thousand views.
39:58Krystal Ball:And this was an interview you did. You were at the ADC conference out in Dearborn, right? So you did an interview there and then it just takes like days for it to post? Yeah.
40:11Ryan Grim:So it went up and I think it got, you know, sometimes I let it out in the feed. It got like a hundred likes and then they took it off the For You page. and for I think it was like 36 hours.
40:21Krystal Ball:And what are you saying in these videos that you think is triggering? Well, A, I mean, I think you've had some controversial interactions with them. Are they like looking at you specifically or are you saying things in these videos that is triggering something or both? Like what do you think is going on?
40:42Ryan Grim:I think that I'm not being targeted specifically yet as far as I can tell. What all these videos have in common that have been removed since September 13th are that I'm talking about Israel. I'm talking about, you know, Apex influence. I'm talking about Larry Ellison and the attempt to put TikTok under Zionist control. I'm criticizing Israel in some way. And it's the same thing I've heard from my audience, my friends who are creators. Ever since September 13th, they've had the same exact experience. videos that are you know more informational and critical of israel get removed um sometimes like comedy videos lighter um criticisms of israel can make it through but uh that's been all of our experience and i i did want to point out that in the new uh free speech guidelines tiktok outlines these conspiracy theories that blame quote-unquote powerful groups and are likely to undermine public confidence and i believe that this is the part of the guidelines that they've been using to justify taking down videos, criticizing AIPAC, the pros or lobbies, Zionist influence in the United States.
41:48Ryan Grim:It's so vague. I mean.
41:50Saagar Enjeti:That is so crazy, guys. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, the idea that you can't mention Hamas without saying I condemn Hamas is preposterous. How are you supposed to do any reporting, you know, whatsoever? YouTube tried to do this at one point where we weren't allowed to play videos of Trump claiming the election was stolen. And I was like, he does that every time he speaks. speech. It's like, how can we possibly cover this?
42:11Krystal Ball:And they wanted us to come in and say, it wasn't stolen.
42:14Saagar Enjeti:Right. They wanted us to come in every time. How am I supposed to do that? How am I supposed to do my job? But for you, I mean, I guess, look, at the very least that was done for our country, right? You know, here we're talking about a different country. Guy, in terms, I mean, I don't know about your career or any of that. Are you going to be able to continue to make a living, you and your other creators and et cetera that kind of rely on this? Like, how is this affecting the entire ecosystem of political creators on TikTok?
42:42Ryan Grim:So I would assume that it's demonetizing everybody pretty much across the board because another aspect of getting your video taken off the feed, taken off the for you recommendation feed is that if you get a certain number of these quote unquote violations or like soft violations, you like five of them in the span of a month, you're kicked out of the monetization program and you can't get any payments for any work you do on TikTok. So, you know, that's about to happen to me. It's happened to me a few times in the past two years as I've advocated for Palestinian liberation. But I mean, how are we meant to do our advocacy when we can't even name the state?
43:21Ryan Grim:We can't reference their crimes. We can't discuss the censorship. And they're like, I mean, there's such a thing going on where you can't talk about Larry Ellison or Netanyahu meeting with American influencers.
43:32Saagar Enjeti:That's nuts. Yeah, but they can post their videos of talking with Netanyahu. You can't post about it.
43:40Krystal Ball:What do you think the long-term implications of this would be? Because there's this idea among the Larry Ellison types of the world and Marco Rubio's and others that TikTok and Instagram really did change people's understanding of what was going, what was of Israel because they were able to see the images of what was happening in Gaza, which then implies that there's some world that they are able to create in which people would not be able to see those images. And I'm just skeptical that any amount of algorithmic suppression can fully suppress an ongoing assault of two million people on a daily basis like it's gotta like it's gonna get through somehow and to me the youtube spotify in particular remain like the places where people actually go to shape their thinking and their ideology because that's where you spend more time engaged in thought with in long form with this show or whether it's rogan or whoever you're listening to.
44:53Krystal Ball:Whereas TikTok and Instagram and the others, that's just kind of some basic raw material that I suspect you could get elsewhere. But maybe I'm wrong and maybe they actually can lock all this down. So from your understanding of how young people consume media, is there a way that they could actually algorithmically lock all this down?
45:14Ryan Grim:I think that it's pretty scary to see Trump talk about retraining the algorithm in connection with what Netanyahu has said about how this TikTok purchase is number one for their eighth front of the digital war. It's going to be very consequential. And it's entirely possible that they can block out all Palestine-related content, all left-wing content. It's possible. But I think that the cat's pretty much out of the bag here in America. If you had come and asked me a year earlier, I might be saying something different, but we're the majority who are here in America who are calling it genocide, what Israel's doing to Gaza.
45:57And, you know, I'm talking
45:59Ryan Grim:to people, I'm talking to people my age, across the political spectrum all the time. You know, the one thing I hear coming out of every single one of their mouths is the word APAC. They know. And so when Israel continues to make these moves and become bolder, more aggressive and desperate in trying to win back the narrative, win back American support, it's only, I think, going to backfire on them. You know, the ADL just got attacked by the right on X. Oh, yeah. We're loving it. Yeah, great. Yeah, I mean, I'm eating it up. Anything to take down the ADL. But, you know, every single time they are exposed paying influencers$7 ,000 a post And like in that recent Farah release by WikiLeaks and Responsible Statecraft, it just brings more attention on them.
46:52Ryan Grim:And people are not going to, you know, there's a rapidly declined trust in any pro-Israel voices they do see on social media or on news outlets anymore. And so I think this is just like a losing game. It may even be a better strategy, I think, to try to start influencing this in the shadows once again. But I don't know if that's possible.
47:13Saagar Enjeti:Guy, thanks for joining us, man. And please do keep us updated. If you get banned or anything like that, let us know, and we'll keep everybody updated. But very insightful, again, as a boomer who doesn't use TikTok. I actually cannot believe those content guidelines. That is nuts. It's wild. All right, okay, we'll see you later.
47:30Krystal Ball:Condemnation. Thank you guys. Thanks for having me.
47:32Saagar Enjeti:Thank you guys so much for watching. Thank you, Ryan. There will be a Friday show tomorrow. Everybody enjoy that, and we will see you all later.
47:38Krystal Ball:See you then.
47:52Saagar Enjeti:On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast, when peanut butter disappears from school, Ella, Scout, and Layla launch a full detective mission. Their search leads them back in time to meet a brilliant inventor whose curiosity changed the world. In this Black History Month adventure, asking questions, thinking creatively, can lead to amazing discoveries. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... You can decide who takes home the 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the Year by voting at iHeartPodcastAwards.com now through February 22nd.
48:35Saagar Enjeti:See all the nominees and place your vote at iHeartPodcastAwards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune. It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. No, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied to everybody. They have had this case for 30 years. I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.
49:17Saagar Enjeti:Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
49:23Krystal Ball:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.
From the publisher
Saagar and Ryan discuss WH short circuits on corruption allegation, Larry Ellison TikTok takeover, Pro Israel crackdown on social media.
YourFavoriteGuy: https://www.tiktok.com/@yourfavoriteguy?lang=en
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